HD/Fury ship stats spreadsheet

[bigsnake]

Hey everyone!

A little while ago I was able to rip all the assets from Wipeout HD. With all the assets came loads of XML files that define pretty much all of the settings for the game, including the settings for each ship. I started putting all of the ship stats into a spreadsheet not too long ago but I've been holding back on posting because I'm not really sure what you guys here think on sharing on such things. The spreadsheet still needs a lot of work done to it, all I've got so far are the basic variables although those by themselves build up quite the list. I've highlighted the four basic rows that would make the most difference to the ships handling, if anyone likes comparing then hopefully that should make it a bit easier.

Here's the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OuoR7FWMTvU9UcuJpfVS9bgF47rmG4GUMy_cM3JmbXA/edit?usp=sharing).

[AGgamer]

This is pretty interesting. But it doesn't really seem to reveal much about the ships. i could see this being pretty useful if i knew what all this meant. but even so, a lot of these numbers are the same across all ships and furys. Could you please explain what things like "turning falloff" are?

[bigsnake]

Sure thing, I just added notes to each value (hover over the value title to see what it means). The only problem is that those values have no description so it's only a guess based on how I use similar values to set ship stats in my own game, that's why I highlighted the rows that would obviously make the largest differences to how each ship handles. As for there being loads of repeated numbers, I'll add those into their own table in the future so they're not wasting as much space. Thanks for the feedback!

[AGgamer]

Thanks for the update! I just have one more question I forgot to ask. I noticed that there is no list of shield values on the sheet. Is it possible you could add that?

Also there seems to be some weird things going on between speed classes. For example, the EGX-hd and AGS-hd's thrust are both rated as a '90' in the game. But in venom to rapier class, you've got AGS rated with more thrust than EGX even though the game says they are the same (in phantom everything seems fine though). kinda reminds me how the AGSystems-speed in 2048 has speed above the pir-hana on A+ class. I think this is kinda funny actually, is Studio Liverpool playing favorites? ;)

[Ace3000]

Really? Most of the stats are the same for AGS HD v Fury? I swear the Fury feels heavier and a bit more sluggish than the HD.

I assume it may have something to do with the other stats you haven't posted yet.

[bigsnake]

Just updated the spreadsheet with all of the extra stats plus loads of other global settings such as all of the weapon settings.


Also there seems to be some weird things going on between speed classes. For example, the EGX-hd and AGS-hd's thrust are both rated as a '90' in the game. But in venom to rapier class, you've got AGS rated with more thrust than EGX even though the game says they are the same (in phantom everything seems fine though).

I'd assume having those values off balance in the lower speed classes has something to do with drag (air resistance), in most cases the acceleration cap drops down after flash (for example AG Systems acceleration cap is 32 in flash but 27 in rapier). It's probably best to compare phantom class stats, those seem to be the most accurate.


Most of the stats are the same for AGS HD v Fury? I swear the Fury feels heavier and a bit more sluggish than the HD.

Yeah it's very strange, Wipeout is pretty balanced so most of the stats do remain the same all across the board. You'll probably find that extra weight is an illusion caused from the shape of the craft, I find that the normal AG Systems ship looks pretty flat compared to the Fury version so that could have something to do with it. Another strange thing I noticed when copying the extra stats across is that the shield values don't change between the HD and Fury versions, same for the actual menu rating values as well. Those are probably handled internally instead of being placed in the XML files though.

[Ace3000]

The thing I find interesting is the leftover data from Pulse. That is, the data for the Shuriken and Repulsor weapons. Maybe they were to appear in HD as well, but were cut out?

[EienZero]

Just updated the spreadsheet with all of the extra stats plus loads of other global settings such as all of the weapon settings.

Great job buddy, I've been looking for something like this for long time, I'm working in some, call it; "Statistical Racing RPG's" Wipeout based, have been developing games like that (lazily over the time), never published or shared anything tho. Anyways, this info is incredibly valuable to me, just two things to ask; have you posted the "updated" spreadsheet? couldn't find the link in your post, and also, is it there any specs/info about the top speeds and speed classes? Thanks in advance man ;)

[Cipher]

Check the tabs at the bottom of the document ;)
Speeds are in there btw lol

Cipher

[EienZero]

Yeah, I was working and couldn't check it depth, I've found it out later at home, but my comment was already done by then :paperbag
Anyway, is the link on the post quoted the "revised/final" version?

Also, there's things that I don't quiet know what to make out of, like the Engine Falloff and the Engine Gain...

[Cipher]

If you hover over those definitions, you'll get a little description pop up ;)
(For most of them anyway)

And i think Bigsnake just edited the document when he updated it, meaning the link provided is the revised one :)

Cipher

[EienZero]

Are all the settings related to Speed (Speed Pads, Rolls, etc) time-based?

And is there any info about the tracks, like number of speed pads, jumps, etc?

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks man ;)

[Cipher]

What do you mean time based?
Weather they provide a time based boost? For turbos and barrel rolls, maybe, but speed pads is just an acceleration jump as long as you're on it i think

And amount of speed pads and jumps could easily be done by just having a go on each track or even just watching some videos on youtube :)

Cipher

[EienZero]

I know, but unfortunately I've sold my PS3 a while ago, been thinking about it, I guess Youtube is my only chance now, if I can still find videos for all the tracks

[Cipher]

Time for shameless self promotion!!
http://youtube.com/AGCipher

Haha neeeh, use whatever vid you find, but i'm pretty sure all tracks are in there, it's just a huge list, you might want to stick to the time trial or speed lap playlist, weapons however you'll have to dig through the rest (online phantom races playlist maybe, although it's not up to date, or just search the ootoobz ^^)

Good luck! :)

Cipher

[EienZero]

Yeah man, good job, gonna check em out, ****! How I miss playing WipeOut! Cool avatar BTW, is that from the 2048?

So, yeah, I've been doing big improvements in my game lately thanks to Bigsnake's file and renewed inspiration, even though I've been away from actually playing the game for more than a year :( Although I've decided to not no go for a 100% purist WipeOut version since it would just make sense to play it through a rather short timeline and I want the teams and pilots to evolve, I also want them to be equally balanced and I have found a way to do so and I'm loving the results so far. Also I'll be upgrading the speeds to Supersonic levels (and measured in MPH's) and the biggest and most dare addition to it, will be the crossover with Shadowrun (RPG) characters to give a bit of a F-Zero feeling to it (I grew up playing those games, specially F-Zero, RnR Racing or even Carmageddon left a big imprint on me) I'll be using the WipeoutFury Teams and ship designs as well as respect the game story and timeline though.

My only concern is that I feel like working on something that no one else but myself is gonna be up to play to, haha, but I don't care, I've been doing it for about 20 years already :P

[Cipher]

The avatar is a picture i made with my DSLR (i love playing with light) ;)

And don't go too ambitious on your project and burn out on it, better to finish something completely and improve it than stopping halfway :)

Try joining some development forums if you want your work to get out there ^^
Good luck with it!

Cipher

[EienZero]

Yeah, thanks for the big ups man, I've been doing this for half my life that way, from times where I could work on it day and night non-stop for weeks/months to times where I've kinda gave up out of the "realization of how pointless it was and how my time I've wasted...", but the truth is that if there's something that it just feels natural and makes me feel inspired enough to work on it like there's nothing else in life, is creating/developing stuff like this, I also love and do my own sort of artistic design & DSLR Photography (also out of pure joy and need) and music too... quite "Arcade-ish" but maybe a bit too gutterpunk/raver to ever make it into a videogame, although it would definitely fit better in one that what it did on-stage, haha. Anyways, thanks again buddy.

[terra-wrists]

Wait, so the Piranha is crap then? :|

[Cipher]

Stats do not determine the bond between ship and pilot =)

Cipher

[Snakenator1]

^ You do not the pick the ship, the ship picks you, only then can the link between pilot and ship be truly established.
And once they bond, they never grow apart, it is a bond that will last forever ;)

Terra and Piranha
Snake and FEISAR
Apple and Harimau

You can see where I'm going :D

[terra-wrists]

You guys stole my lines. I tried Piranha as a way to give other lesser experienced pilots a chance against me, and the game became interesting again because a new ship demands new adjustments, and new tolerances are exposed now - I found that getting air in a Piranha seems hard but is easy as anything one you know how.

A truly good pilot will get into any ship and enjoy the races. I stick with Piranha, because I just like the red and yellow fishy face and the arse end of it looks decent in game. Handles like a boat in a storm on phantom speed though, although a few races manages to tame the beast within and the piranha goes full on shark. It's ON then! :D

Now tell me about your ship.

[JFthebestJan]

@ terra: piranha is not crap, it's still awesome for speedlaps. it's simply the best ship for bounce BRs (falling from great highs, bounce up, BR).

[terra-wrists]

Yes, very true... you can get a bounce anywhere there is a small bump on the track with a piranha, most people probably think that coz its a heavy ship it won't get lift... but a little SS or nose up is all it takes to get that lift and then its BR time.

And it's a bloody fast ship. Love the way you can bounce it off a wall and still maintain speed. That's handy when I get shot with a missile or something.

[Colin Berry]

:D
These were all the tweakables that we could alter on the fly during development without hassling a coder.
There were additional hard coded parameters which were set in stone too.
I remember we didnt adjust much for Fury, as we didnt have a huge amount of resources, I was working on other stuff, and I think I did the ship tweaks in a fairly short period of time. We knew we didnt have to tweak lots to get a slightly different feel, if you increase the engine power and acceleration but keep other values the same, you get the desired effect.

For those who remember the Triakis error in Pure, it was the Turning Falloff and Turning Gain of the Triakis that was incorrect, leading to it retaining more speed than intended through corners, which Foxy then cleverly wrote into the back story after we discovered the error ;)

[Snakenator1]

if you increase the engine power and acceleration but keep other values the same, you get the desired effect.

That's really cool, so a little alteration to one or two aspects of the ships can give it a completely different feeling without having to do a overhaul on the coding. The physics you implemented into the game engine have always been top notch and has been clearly demonstrated with what you just said ;)

I hope life has been treating you well Colin.

[terra-wrists]

So much win in this thread !!! :)

[bigsnake]

:D
These were all the tweakables that we could alter on the fly during development without hassling a coder.
There were additional hard coded parameters which were set in stone too.
I remember we didnt adjust much for Fury, as we didnt have a huge amount of resources, I was working on other stuff, and I think I did the ship tweaks in a fairly short period of time. We knew we didnt have to tweak lots to get a slightly different feel, if you increase the engine power and acceleration but keep other values the same, you get the desired effect.

For those who remember the Triakis error in Pure, it was the Turning Falloff and Turning Gain of the Triakis that was incorrect, leading to it retaining more speed than intended through corners, which Foxy then cleverly wrote into the back story after we discovered the error ;)

I've been using the XML files to aid me in developing the physics for my game, it really is quite a nifty way of controlling parameters without having to touch any code! I'm interested, how did the turning falloff and gain cause the issue with Triakis in Pure? From what I can gather the falloff is set too high. The ship feels like it almost snaps back into a straight line if you stop turning, any visible torque left seems to just be created by the camera re-centering.

[Colin Berry]

Its a long time ago but from what I recall you are correct, it was to do with how quickly the ship snapped in and out of turning, and thus enabled it to retain more speed when cornering due to the error.
Its been a while but I think it was, you lose speed when turning, so this error caused you to be turning for a fraction less time, so you retained more speed.
I've a full explanation somewhere on an old hard drive... somewhere.
Possibly with the old pure stats somewhere too.

The effect is subtle, I mean really subtle. But then in the right expert hands, it will perform better than intended.

It annoyed me when we discovered it, because e took time and effort to balance all the Pure ships, and I think there were nearly 30 of them with DLC and all the extras, and I always took pride that we made them feel different but they were all in the same ball park performance wise, then we discovered the error (someone posted a comment on here about cornering quickly, that set me looking in the right area) and to see we'd ballsed up one ship was a pain.


@snakenator1 - life is treating me very well thank you !
Still making games, getting to do things I've not done before, smaller teams, more projects, more pressure, but fun.
Still get to see lots of the old team as well.
I still work with Zico :D and Lee Wagner (exceptional graphic designer from Wipeout)
And I see Linky, Nick Burcombe, Rippers, and a whole host of others regularly and keep in touch with many of those who I dont see too.

[Hybrid Divide]

Glad to hear live is treating you well, Collin! :D

All these insights into the making of these games is fascinating.

Also, have you seen Ballistic-NG yet? Those guys have really nailed the Wip3out look!

[terra-wrists]

For those who remember the Triakis error in Pure, it was the Turning Falloff and Turning Gain of the Triakis that was incorrect, leading to it retaining more speed than intended through corners, which Foxy then cleverly wrote into the back story after we discovered the error ;)

I remember thinking "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE SL?" :D and then stared at my Piranha in confusion. MFW. utterly confuddled.

[EienZero]

Man this is been of a huge help to me :rock, I am working on a Text-based/PnP RPG and without this I would up ended up with completelly made up stats, and everyone of you who may try the game some day, would hate me, anyways do you know if there's a chance to get the Omega stats,or concretelly, the Tigron & Van-Uber relative ones to the HD version? :sonar

Also, one big question I still have about this spreadsheet, how does it relates/translates (in numbers) to the stats shown on the game (Speed/Thrust/Handling/Shield)???