What do you want to see in Formula Fusion?

[amplificated]

Thread title should be pretty explanatory, but to help prompt thoughts feel free to break information down into categories. For example, I'll start (note while I use names like speed lap/zone, I understand they most likely won't be called that if they are included in FF at all, but refer to theoretic analogues):

Technology-
Visual:
* This is supposed to effectively be WipEout yeah? That means speed. I'd like to see uncapped FPS to support 144hz monitors, and FreeSync/GSync support. The only kind of limit to speed I want to see is menu framerates capped to 60.

* Support for multimonitor and high resolution graphics e.g. 4k, 5k.

* Can easily be alt-tabbed, e.g. borderless fullscreen.

Controller support:
* #1 concern is gamepad support, which generally means Xinput.

* I'd like to see native DualShock 4 support, too, with mappable "6axis" controls. IMO it's a huge bonus to control pitch in Wipeout HD with the motion controls; I always find myself moving off my desired line by using the joystick or d-pad. While some external apps allow for this, it would probably make it easier for the vast majority to include it natively.

* Concern #2 is allowing keyboard & mouse users especially map functions to multiple keys, e.g. having accelerate as "B" as well as "X" or "mouse4", and also turning left as "left" as well as "mouse axis X-". I don't know any specific functions that would make the game more playable by having this, but I am still certain some people would make use of such a feature, and it should be so simple a feature to include for such a talented team ;)

Online:
* Offline play. Even if you're going to release the game only on Steam, people should have the ability to play the game easily offline and upload their ghosts/records later.

* Minimum 8 player online multiplayer.

Gameplay-
Visual:
* Mod-able HUD. While the default HUD should be minimalistic and sufficient, past WipEouts have led me to think the devs don't get it 100% right for 100% of players. As long as there's nothing that could allow players to cheat, I think this would be really good.

* I'm sure you think you'll get it right, but clear and distinct graphics that don't clutter.

Controls/playing:
* Without getting into detail which would be 100% ignored anyway, I'll just say I'd like to see an evolution of WipEout HD when it comes to how the game plays and feels. Not in the direction of 2048, obviously. Perhaps something along the lines of more complicated physics e.g. wind dynamics, weather, etc.... Honestly I think making gameplay more sim-like is absolutely the way to go. Weapons are fine and all, but there's so much more to HD/Fury than shooting people that it would just be a waste to focus on such overly retreaded territory yet again. People already have Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed for weapons based arcade racing, why compete on their own level?

* Zero lag in navigating menus. Sounds small? It's the most frustrating thing in the world. I can't tell you how annoying it was to have HD/F not let me quit/restart a race/speedlap session half a microsecond faster when I've messed up and need to leave the current session. It is... annoying.

* Gamemodes:
Green races! I.e., no weapons but allow players to boost at will. Make it official.

Speed laps: I really like the aerial ballet possible in HD/Fury, and learning how to perform such manoeuvres is integral to the gameplay for when you want to race. So while I understand it can be seen as unfair on beginners to learn how to best use your boost and learn advanced techniques like "BSB", I think the fun factor wins out. The only reason 2048 had any replayability at all was because the controls are so bad and the handling was made terrible, and that... that, is not cool.

Zone: I'd like to see it.

Other:
* An external track creation program... give everyone an application that allows people to craft their own tracks. Don't even need to allow people to import textures or models or anything... give them a Zone-like Palette and a few decals and that should be enough. Hey... I'd just like to see it. As long as you don't do a StarCraft 2 it should add replayability provided the gameplay makes people want to come back.

* Menus that, unlike 2048, are actually usable and make sense.

* Last but certainly far from least... ABSOLUTELY NO PERK UNLOCK CARROT ON A STICK HELL. If you can unlock skins and stuff like CS: GO, that's great. But if you give a player with 100 hours about 10 different ways to make life even more unfair on noobs, that's not cool. If you force players to play the game for 20 hours before they can play the game as it should be played, that's not just not cool, it's incredibly ****ed. Do not do it.

That's all I can think of for now... As much as I'd appreciate an old-style gameplay mode in the vein of Wipeout 2097/Wipeout 3, it's beyond the scope of what I'd expect of the devs given what I already want regarding gameplay.

Everyone else?

[blackwiggle]

All I want is a level playing field for both newcomer and long time racer.
The biggest problem that happened with the WO franchise was the Barrel Roll, not so much it's existence, but the way it was implemented into the game, and the controller dexterity needed to successfully do it.

It left a huge chasm between those that can/could do, and those that couldn't always, couldn't a lot, or just got so annoyed with the feature that they gave up playing the game.
Like the founder of the wipoutzone, Infoxicated, he basically lost all interest once BR's appeared in Wipeout.

I mean it's a racing game, knowing the track and the best lines were what it was all about prior to PURE.

And it should be for a AG Formula one type race.

You don't want what basically is a 'Trick Move' tied to the steering of a racing game.

[eLhabib]

Agreed 100%.
Actually, not only do barrel rolls need to go, I think that the impact of weapons should also be toned down considerably. Weapons should serve as a small bonus advantage in a head-to-head race, but they should NEVER have the power to turn a race around completely. Things like the infamous blue shell from Mario Kart are an offence to people who take racing a perfect line seriously. No weapon should have an effective range further than line of sight.

One thing I have theorized about since wipEout pure is the option to eliminate boosts as a pickup from the game altogether and instead give players the option to convert every weapon pickup into a small boost, therefor eliminating the need for gimmicks like the barrel roll. So if I pick up a rocket, I can shoot it with button A, convert it to shield energy with button B, or convert it into a small boost with button C. This way, weapon pickup pads become an asset to a fast racing line as well and you can leave them turned on for time trials and speed laps, just disabling the fire button A.

Oh and one more thing: I know it's flashy and you can put pictures of it on boxes and ads and even Mario Kart does it now, but PLEASE: mag strips? loopings? driving upside down? Adds absolutely NOTHING to the enjoyment of a track and is highly unrealistic and goofy even for an AG racing game. Just leave it be.
My two cents.
Formula Fusion is going to be great, I believe in you!

[genOSHA]

Eliminator mode. No quakes for online multilayer though.Sometimes too many quakes effeat the synergy of the race. A new international weather sim would be nice also.

[Jonny]

How about some WipEout references?

[Sporadik]

3D Vision ready please!

[TM.Mordred]

After playing tons of Forza for the last few days, I'd really like to see a massive visual editor like in those games. Surely custom paintjobs are still a thing that exists in 2075. :D

[AGgamer]

I have a thought. how about there are no weapon pads at all? let's say the race craft have a "firepower" stat like in twenty forty-eight, but instead of boosting damage output, it increases room for your weapon load-out. each weapon would have a specific value to the load out, for example maybe a missile is worth 15 points, and a ship can carry like 50 points. And if the firepower stat increases they can carry up to 150 points. Of course all weapons would need their own personal limits, like you're only allowed to carry one quake even if you have room for two.

[ZixXer]

after playing pretty much all wipeout games a lot. Here is a list that I think is needed to make the best wipeout type game ever!
some things on the list may be things that you already have but just stating stuff that i think needs to be in for max entertainment!

A few things that I think this title need in order for me to enjoy it to the max,

1 difficult tracks that can be raced on max speed without braking for a corner.
2 have a option to never press the thrust button, but just press a button when you want to go less than the max. I play a whole lot of zone mode (favorite mode) and I don't have to press X all the time and i love that!
3 plz add a Zone mode, I love the INSANE SPEEDS, not the lousy phantom speeds.
It takes around 10 min to get to a speed I like in zone mode and during that time i'm browsing the web and watching series.
4 I would like a system that for example saves a checkpoint for every 10 perfect zones you did in a row. because if you can do 10 you're good enough to be at that speed. (I dont care about the points i just want to get a zone higher ) the checkpoint should be at the first of the 10 perfect zones so that you still need to do some work.
5 internal cam/front cam I would love it to have the camera on the tip of the nose so that i don't see my ship at all and am low to the ground, this gives me the best speed sensation of them all. flying out of internal/front cam is easier but feels boring compared to front cam if you have mastered it.
6 Wipeout 2097 and wip3out had a bit more icy feel to the planes, (no direct movement like HD), but when mastered feel so very good! It would be nice to have 1 or 2 crafts that use this type of smooth piloting.
7 barrel rolls I like what they do and give a extra fun thing to do/master even for internal views.
8 scraping the wall should not slow you down but build up energy, energy that can be used to enable turbo’s. (this will make flying super close to the wall rewarding, but getting closer than just a scrape and you should get a speed penalty)
9 Use up HP to get speed boost, like wip3out I really like this risk/ reward system. this allowed for last second wins if you had enough hp on the end of a track.
10 insane looking tracks with twists and upside down stuff.
11 keep the air brakes, they rule and make wipeout awesome. dont lose momentum when turning tight.
12 Racebox, I never understood how wipeout 2048 could ship without it! I want to be able to pick what track I want to race on and what settings/mutators are enabled.
13 When hitting a plane thats in front of me I want it to fly up in the air so I can race underneath him to take his place. wipeout hd did not do this so if you shot someone really close you you he would lose speed and bump into you thats really bad! Cool take over’s is what i would like to see.
14 don’t give me the blur stuff I want to see everything full sharpness when my cam is hovering just above the ground.
15 add long trails they just make it look so much cooler!
16 don’t make the vehicles look like cars!
17 add ghosts, so we can race or best versions, with the option to save a few extra ghosts, for different challenges. also allow replay to see how a ghost plane flew without having to chase it yourself.
18 share ghosts
19 simple readable hud that show speed, hp, energy and weapons in one flash.
20 you have to have turbo’s and weapon pickups scattered over the map.
21 have a option to change pickups and turbo’s every race so that even pro players need to scout and remember the spots during a new race.
22 to make this game noob friendly without the auto steering. make the wall slow you down less the further you are behind the nr 1 player. for example till 2 sec delay same amount of friction on walls as nr 1 position player then scale that up to 10 seconds delay with almost no friction at all. this will bring the pack of pilots closer together and makes it more fun with all the guns going off in the battlefield.
23 Did I mention it needs to go really fast with smooth cornering!

[Jonny]

Just my wishlist (may get's expanded):
1. Reeeeeaaaaallllly long tracks (like in Fusion) and realy short tracks.
2. Crafts that look like actual crafts.
3. A team from Germany
4. Pls no dystopic future
5. Pitlanes instead of absorbing
6. Giving players the ability to create their own racing style, like either laying into corners, or previous mentioned drifting.
7. Getting connected with the game.

[blackwiggle]

Please ... No glass like surface tracks ...... a major annoyance visually, and the reason the HD/ FURY tracks are loathed by most [ A visually disorientating mess basically, might have looked good design wise, but sucked when actually playing it]

It depends on how you design this game to play..... I'm assuming a clean slate, more AG F1 than Wipeout.

If so, wish list.

AI referee that adjudicates in real time who hold right of way/ racing line [as like F1 passing moves ]...how you penalize offenders, and the severity of the penalty, It's up to you.

Online Ramming of craft - Don't know the gameplay yet, but please consider effect and/or penalty .[Prost /Senna like crap happening online ]

[J.666]

I would like to see a public except people on your block list mode when racing online.

[PureSpeed7]

Just my wishlist (may get's expanded):
1. Reeeeeaaaaallllly long tracks (like in Fusion) and realy short tracks.
2. Crafts that look like actual crafts.
3. A team from Germany
4. Pls no dystopic future
5. Pitlanes instead of absorbing
6. Giving players the ability to create their own racing style, like either laying into corners, or previous mentioned drifting.
7. Getting connected with the game.

I completely agree as a fusion player. #4 & #5 especially.

[AGgamer]

1. Between pit lanes and absorbing, I'd say pit lanes for sure. Way better than absorbing game balance wise. In HD absorbing makes the low shields on high performance craft not really matter, so why not just use a Harimau or Icaras? they have better stats and the shields don't matter. But with pit lanes the player needs to deal with their choice to have low shields for potentially the whole lap.

2. Have the option to select how many laps in a race offline as well as online. I always wanted to do an endurance race on my own offline (because nobody online wants to sit through 20 laps) but I cant.

3. I just want to through this idea out there: How about you prepare a weapon set pre race and thats your ammo for the race? Maybe one pilot has 3 missiles, a shield, and one E-pack, where another pilot has 2 shields, an E-pack and nothing else. This could make for interesting combat strategies going in and it would also eliminate the chance factor of weapon pads in wipEout.

4. Maybe in-game backstoryyyy???

[Maciek1704]

1. Between pit lanes and absorbing, I'd say pit lanes for sure. Way better than absorbing game balance wise. In HD absorbing makes the low shields on high performance craft not really matter, so why not just use a Harimau or Icaras? they have better stats and the shields don't matter. But with pit lanes the player needs to deal with their choice to have low shields for potentially the whole lap.

2. Have the option to select how many laps in a race offline as well as online. I always wanted to do an endurance race on my own offline (because nobody online wants to sit through 20 laps) but I cant.

3. I just want to through this idea out there: How about you prepare a weapon set pre race and thats your ammo for the race? Maybe one pilot has 3 missiles, a shield, and one E-pack, where another pilot has 2 shields, an E-pack and nothing else. This could make for interesting combat strategies going in and it would also eliminate the chance factor of weapon pads in wipEout.

4. Maybe in-game backstoryyyy???

4. - I totally agree. Wipeout have something like "hidden" backstory (Belmondo, etc.) and it was never mentioned in campagin. Now I'd like to see a racing game with story. Good story :)

[PureSpeed7]

Have 4 or 5 different craft models, each one with different stats and liveries. Each livery would be a different team. (think sort of like NASCAR.)

- - - Updated - - -

oh yes, I want an EXTREME sense of speed!! I want to be in cockpit mode with a speed-o that says 450mph with a futuristic city becoming a blur outside the windows!!

EDIT: I need to be able to change from KPH to MPH!

Wipeout needed that in every game!

[Jonny]

2. Crafts that look like actual crafts.

Seems like my hopes are gone...

8. Cockpit mode, if it's missing I want my money back.
9. A good background story (mustn't be included in the game though)

How is it with the teams, do you choose your craft all the time again, or does the game has a real career mode?

[Stardragon88]

4. - I totally agree. Wipeout have something like "hidden" backstory (Belmondo, etc.) and it was never mentioned in campagin. Now I'd like to see a racing game with story. Good story :)

Personally I kind of liked that Wipeout's backstory was kind of hidden and not very well publicized at all. You only got little snippets of information here and there (from loading screen text, or captions attached to pictures in the gallery, you could infer a little from things like each team's ads on the track), it kept it a little mysterious and not so much in your face. I had a good time reading the archived backstory stuff that used to be on this site myself.

I mean to your average person, the game could be on Mars for all they know and they really wouldn't care. Not to say that the story getting in the way of the presentation is a bad thing, but it felt kind of fitting for Wipeout as a pure racing game for the backstory to be really subtle like that - it lets people fill in the blanks themselves and speculate a bit and sometimes that's a good thing.

Then again it might just have been the very specific circumstances that the franchise was operating in back then that made it a good fit. Wipeout's always been a very unique brand.

[Kyderra]

I have a bit of a weird one, but:
Considering there is a push going to make this game E-sport (ESL) I would love to see some tools that allows people to watch or cast a tournament race.
Kinda in the style of how MOBA's or RTS games but with a formula 1 vibe.

For example: Having a free flyby camera, overhead cam or a static cam in the corners that you manually set up that you can switch to with your numpad.
That coupled with everyone's times and stats during the race.

I'd be all over finally having a racing game that people can broadcast on Twitch.


That said, of course I'd prefer a functinal fun racing game first.

[Stardragon88]

That said, of course I'd prefer a functinal fun racing game first.

Absolutely.

I have some misgivings about the whole e-sports thing myself. I mean, it's all well and good but - I can't quite put my finger on it - it just seems an odd thing to make such a central bit of their pitch for the game.

R8's been pretty open about the trouble they've had with the corporate side of game development, finding publishers and having to surrender or cede control of their IP, things like that. It's funny but I feel it's easy to run into the same problems when you go with the crowdsourced route i.e Kickstarter and the like. There are thousands of people out there with different visions of what a Wipeout successor should be, and it's easy to end up promising the world to all of them only to buckle under a bloated and diluted final product - part of creative control is knowing when to say "No" too.

I can't help but feel for them when I read the comments on the Kickstarter and see people asking for console this and mac that and a hundred other extras - it looks like they have their hands full as it is just shipping the game - not to mention I'd really rather not see them get sidetracked and lose productivity with trivialities like working out the logistics of Kickstarter rewards and shipping and things like that.

Crowdsourcing, it has its pros and cons!

[Angryman]

I like the idea of using weapon pick-ups as boost energy. How about have a boost bar, and every time you drop a weapon it gets stored as boost energy?
The only thing I would like to see is the game to look a bit more gritty, like the original wipeout and 2097. Everything, from the environment to the sound fx should be harsh and a bit dirty. I want the game to sound like I'm at an arcade in the 90s.
If you have billboards placed above the race track, maybe make them holographic. I always hit billboards in some of the later wipeouts because they placed them right after a jump or bumpy area. In the psone wipeouts the billboards weren't solid and you could just fly through them.

[PureSpeed7]

They said it was going to be a dystopian New York.

[Chill]

Portal weapon lol.. Like what force wall did for Wipeout 3 but a portal instead.. I know it's hard for me to get off of it I'm sorry.. And since we're talking of mainly disorienting weapons as opposed to destructive ones (which I like that idea very much), perhaps a blackout with an interceptor in the day that can block the sun if applicable for a certain amount of time..

[yawnstretch]

Just one thing:

BOUNCE

[blackwiggle]

Quote:They said it was going to be a dystopian New York.
Yeah they did - well, not actually R8, it was a spoke person for the Designers republic that said this in a video interview, and several of us after seeing that must of all thought "Oh No, not another one"! and requested that they didn't go down that path as there is already far too many bleak and dire looking games , it's been done to death, give us something new.....then R8 went into a sort of damage control, and responded that they weren't going down that direction.
What we actually get??..who knows.

What do you mean BOUNCE?
As in bouncy craft handling as found in the bumpy Fury tracks and craft?.....That's been one of the most annoying aspects of those tracks for me.
I honestly prefer the HD craft handling, but unless everybody else is using HD craft, you are at a disadvantage with the craft spec's of the Fury ships

And as for disorientating weapons rather than destructive ones, Please not those Gravity stinger or gravity bombs from Fusion that reverse the craft controls or disable your crafts AG...... they are controller throwing frustrating as they cause much more "race time" damage than any weapon should be allowed to in a racing game.

[AGgamer]

Cyberpunk is the idea. A dystopia Neo-Tokyo New York is a great inducer of the densely populated neon city atmosphere. We arn't getting a bleak, grey-brown Fallout 3 city, we are getting A colorful but dirty city. Rundown but still futuristic and new. We are getting a classic WipEout feel as they are the role models.

[yawnstretch]

What do you mean BOUNCE?
As in bouncy craft handling as found in the bumpy Fury tracks and craft?.....That's been one of the most annoying aspects of those tracks for me.


Watch from 1.00 to 1.12
http://youtu.be/lz_f5aMr6ok

Something that's gradually been disappearing is the hovering/floating detail in all futuristic racers. I don't mean bottoming out completely, I mean that the craft moves vertically as well as left and right depending on its momentum. It adds a realistic feeling to the game and makes it more fun.

Its probably harder to program cool physics like that with bumps on the track etc. but it makes it more like sega rally and less boring. (To me anyway).

I would ask the game makers to at least try it and see if it makes gameplay any better.

[eLhabib]

I agree 100%!

[Stardragon88]

Watch from 1.00 to 1.12
http://youtu.be/lz_f5aMr6ok

Something that's gradually been disappearing is the hovering/floating detail in all futuristic racers. I don't mean bottoming out completely, I mean that the craft moves vertically as well as left and right depending on its momentum. It adds a realistic feeling to the game and makes it more fun.

I agree, you can see it in the segment starting at 1:13 too, where the craft crests that tall turn and you can really feel it trying to pull away from the track surface. Makes it feel a lot more visceral and less like a slot car that's just shifting left and right.

[Sausehuhn]

Since WO3 I haven't seen any game that was capable of reproducing that 'classic' floatiness/bounce from the first three games. That interplay of the craft's pivot (which is not in the center!), its momentum (that causes the ship to still be pushed forward when entering a curve and adds additional vertical and horizontal movement) and the camera (mainly following the track but also changing its position relative to the ship when it's turning). In retrospective, it seems to be a rather complex combination of several factors. Given the technological capabilities we got today, it seems even more ironic that there hasn't been anything similar for more than 15 years.

[blackwiggle]

Watch from 1.00 to 1.12
http://youtu.be/lz_f5aMr6ok

Something that's gradually been disappearing is the hovering/floating detail in all futuristic racers. I don't mean bottoming out completely, I mean that the craft moves vertically as well as left and right depending on its momentum. It adds a realistic feeling to the game and makes it more fun.

Its probably harder to program cool physics like that with bumps on the track etc. but it makes it more like sega rally and less boring. (To me anyway).

I would ask the game makers to at least try it and see if it makes gameplay any better.

I'm guessing you play in near or far view when playing WO.
I've always played every WO in cockpit mode, the Fury craft definitely have that floaty bounce of the older WO craft, maybe it's just not as noticeable when playing in near or far view.
Having a totally immersive experience has always been first and foremost in my love of WO, but playing in that mode can have it's cons, bounce, like a few other things in the more recent WO's, namely BR's and transparent glassy tracks, can really play havoc on your perceived orientation, ultimately effecting your racing ability....not so bad when in racebox doing SL's or TT's, but when playing online against really good pilots you can often find yourself at a disadvantage...this is especially true when when being hunted down by a pack, who if like the vast majority of pilots fly in near or far view, can all see each other and counteract ramming etc, but being in cockpit mode you only have your HUD's proximity alert until other craft are right up beside you, by then it's too late and you can often find yourself getting overridden and rammed out of the way.

I would agree that I find the craft of both HD & Fury tend to have less rear end drift, compared to say WO3's version of Quirex or Icarus, and a lot less than the craft of WO Fusion...Tigron etc....the tightening up seemed to start happening with Pure, got a bit tighter with Pulse, stayed pretty much the same with HD, got a bit looser with Fury...and I don't know about 2048 as I've never played it [Sony, where's the patch to allow this to be played on a PSTV]

I'm not really sure asking for more bounce is actually going to applicable to Formula Fusion, as unlike WO games, craft handling will be left somewhat up to the pilot as the availability of craft upgrades are unlocked.
I suppose it will depend on what degree of effect these upgrades [or combinations of ] will have .... I can see a source of endless testing and discussion with these parameters.

[AGgamer]

I don't know about 2048 as I've never played it

2048 is a bit more floaty compared to HD Fury. infact, in A+ class with the far camera (my favorite camera) it almost feels like 2097 but with a wider track.

[stinkleroy]

Agreed 100%.
Actually, not only do barrel rolls need to go, I think that the impact of weapons should also be toned down considerably. Weapons should serve as a small bonus advantage in a head-to-head race, but they should NEVER have the power to turn a race around completely. Things like the infamous blue shell from Mario Kart are an offence to people who take racing a perfect line seriously. No weapon should have an effective range further than line of sight.

One thing I have theorized about since wipEout pure is the option to eliminate boosts as a pickup from the game altogether and instead give players the option to convert every weapon pickup into a small boost, therefor eliminating the need for gimmicks like the barrel roll. So if I pick up a rocket, I can shoot it with button A, convert it to shield energy with button B, or convert it into a small boost with button C. This way, weapon pickup pads become an asset to a fast racing line as well and you can leave them turned on for time trials and speed laps, just disabling the fire button A.

Oh and one more thing: I know it's flashy and you can put pictures of it on boxes and ads and even Mario Kart does it now, but PLEASE: mag strips? loopings? driving upside down? Adds absolutely NOTHING to the enjoyment of a track and is highly unrealistic and goofy even for an AG racing game. Just leave it be.
My two cents.
Formula Fusion is going to be great, I believe in you!

This ^^

[stin]

Ditto!!! Till I eventually read it properly!

stevie:)

[stinkleroy]

Lol Stevie ;)

[NeroIcaras]

Hi, I'm new here on WipeoutZone, but I'd love to see a custom craft designer where you could download other craft, in-game skin editor and possibly an upgrade tree?

[Chill]

PlayStation VR seems to be making a big splash recently.. Something to consider.. I also miss the brutal weather affects of earlier Wipeouts and hope such things can be implemented again..