WTF Sebenco?

[mannjon]

I am in need of assistance. I've been trying to figure out how to properly race Sebenco on Phantom, and for the life of me I can't seem to get a time under 2.06.xx. Even if you got 1 turbo per lap, and used it over the last chicane series (which I think is the optimal place to do so) there are so many other roll opportunities that staying alive becomes a serious problem anyways.

I just don't see how a time of anything under 2.00.00 is remotely possible. I've raced it now about 200 times, and I'm doing something wrong. It probably comes down to barrel roll management, and knowing when to roll and when not to. In a typical lap the rolls are:

1. Right after the start at the first hump.
2. immediately after that after the right-hander near the first weapon pad.
3. The uphill just after that (where there are 2 side-by-side speed pads).
4. You can do a double just after #3.
5. Going up the hill before the steep downhill starts just before the weapon pads on the top of the hill.
6. You can do a double just after #5.
7. You can do a triple if you hit #5 and #6.
8. At the bottom of the tunnel, you can side shift right and get one over the speed pad.
9. Immediately after #8, you hit the speed pad to the left and get one at the start of the chicane series.
10. You can do a double after #9.
11. *Technically you can do a triple after #9 and #10*
12. If you didn't go for the triple, there is one possible just after the chicane series before the last left-hander.

So I can land ALL of these with unlimited energy, but obviously in a single race, you just can't land all of these even if you were to absorb everything. So which ones give you the most benefits and which ones aren't worth doing? Also, where is the optimal spot to use a turbo (I was thinking it is over the chicanes after the tunnel if you hit it low enough)?

After experimenting for quite some time, it seems that #1 doesn't offer much of a benefit, and #2 offers little benefit. #3 seems to be a good one. #4 isn't really worth it. #5 or #6 seem to be a good place (but not both of them) and #7 seems pointless. #8 seems not worth it. #9 is essential, but #10 and #11 aren't worth it. #12 also doesn't seem worth it.

What is your optimal route?

[ericd7]

You should check youtube videos, there are a few links on the wipeoutrankings sebenco TT page.
Trying to perform all these Brs is very hard.
There is no benefit if it makes you miss your lines.
You can see a more optimal route on yeldar's video with another boost location.But it's a very difficult trick.
12345 then boost br at the end of the tunnel is already enough stressfull :)
As you said, try to fly low/straight while you boost.
With a clean run you should get a time below 2.00.
Keep going, practice is the key.

Oups, just realized you were talking about the single race sorry.
Try to take the lead as soon as possible by performing lots of Brs on the first lap.
Br in spot 1, double Br in spot 4 and Boost (or Br) up the hill after the tunnel are quite easy and offer more benefit than the others.
You should focus on your lines for the others spots unless you're confortable with.
You'll need luck with pickups/IA.

Here is one video you should watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL3ft8qJ0sE&list=PL59F20BB750DFF44E&index=2 (elite ia difficulty, would be far more easy with the good setting)

[mannjon]

For the most part, it seems like #1 is legit.

#2, #3, and #4 just don't offer much of a benefit to consider doing.

#5 seems legit, but not a double or triple because you have the straight to use the speed boost.

#9 also seems legit (if you don't have a turbo).

So it looks like a typical lap without a turbo would be 1, 5, and 9. Maybe add #3 for a total of 60 energy per lap. If I could only pickup plasmas and turbos, I'd be all set.

[terra-wrists]

master at work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmlFhjynTbc

[mannjon]

That's nice and all, and impressively done... but that my friend is a Time Trial. I'm interested in the single race times. I see people on Wipeourankings with a similar time of sub 1.50.00 for a single race. Given the unlimited ship energy, it is easier to get sub 1.50.00 on a TT than sub 2.00.00 on a single race. I can land all of the listed rolls in TT and SL modes. The problem is sorting out which ones to land each lap in a single/multiplayer race.

[ericd7]

With or without Brs, yeldar's lines are what you must aim for.
As soon as you take the lead, you should focus on lines first (sideshifts will help you here) and only add some Brs when you have enough energy / where you feel confortable.
If you mange to do the double Br in spot 4 the way he does, it worth it.Same for spot 5.

Single races times are more around 1.55, you'll encounter less lapped bombs on elite difficulty and there is no big difference about the time you need to escape if you get an early turbo.

[terra-wrists]

Yes, what Eric said + also bare in mind mannjon, that post patch - things are apparently slower (though not for me - I think post patch is the same more or less, and am still getting PB's her and there).

I don't doubt a sub 1:50 can be achieved in a single race - providing you pick up 5/6 turbos in the race and just GO for it! It's all about the first lap - opening 10 seconds will decide if you can do it or not. If not - restart the race. Rinse and repeat. With Yeldars lines as in that video above.

[mannjon]

Thanks a lot guys! Great tips Eric and Terra! In general, I never really practiced Phantom that much, and I've recently decided to work on that. I've switched to Harimau+ and I've noticed that lines are more important in general than rolls are. I seem to get better results when I focus more on lines and less on rolls. It is safer that way too in races because you won't lose as much energy.

As far as the patch thing goes, I've been on the fence about doing or not. I've hit the point with some TT and single offline races that are near perfect runs, and I'm about 2-3 seconds off of the top 10 or so. Moa Revere is a prime example. There really is one major roll you can land, and it is almost just as fast to just use the turbo and not roll. I think Yeldar had mentioned in a previous post that it can make for nearly a 0.5 second difference per lap on some tracks. The only thing really holding me back is that lately I've noticed some excellent competition when I typically play in my time zone. I'll probably wind up going prepatch for a week and switch back over.

Also, I've noticed the date ranges for all of the top times are all prepatch dates (with a few recent exceptions of people reverting back and posting new times for SL and TT). I think there is a definite evidence to suggest that prepatch is faster. I've heard that braking doesn't cause you to lose speed, which is why a lot of Venom and Flash times are still relatively easy to get good rankings for running post patch, and why Phantom has a much wider gap. Unfortunately, us later pilots have no chance of getting good multiplayer times simply because you can't play online with prepatch anymore. All that aside, I'm pretty happy with my #20 Venom rank and my #38 Flash rank. Phantom remains the hardest final barrier to mastery of this now 6 year old game!

[terra-wrists]

You may surprise yourself and realise that phantom is all about the neat lines and turbo luck (so many green racers about in that speed) and therefore, a heck of a lot easier once you've adjusted... however, I believe it is still possible to beat those times - all it takes is that extra turbo the previous number one didn't get.

I don't play phantom much - and now I can't play at all for at least a week (maybe longer) because 2 nights ago, I sprained my left hand whilst doing a chain BR and that old repetitive strain injury has come back. Bugger.

[Zzonkmiles]

I just watched Terra's video and can confidently say that I will NEVER be able to do that. My BR reflexes aren't so hot and I'm an old dude anyway, so much respect to those of you who can pull this stuff off. :)

[terra-wrists]

The thing with yeldar is, that he makes it look easy. And ive seen him play irl to confirm it.

[slimjim]

You may surprise yourself and realise that phantom is all about the neat lines and turbo luck (so many green racers about in that speed) and therefore, a heck of a lot easier once you've adjusted... however, I believe it is still possible to beat those times - all it takes is that extra turbo the previous number one didn't get.

I don't play phantom much - and now I can't play at all for at least a week (maybe longer) because 2 nights ago, I sprained my left hand whilst doing a chain BR and that old repetitive strain injury has come back. Bugger.


does that mean id be able to beat you at a race if you are all broken :D:twisted

[ALovelyLilith]

@mannjonn- *poke poke* -sub 2 :3 have a look :3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd2vTE6Kkuk&feature=youtu.be

[mannjon]

^_^

Well done indeed. This at least confirms kind of what I was thinking about which rolls to do and which to avoid. You also only had one turbo for the whole race used for the shortcut (or maybe 2?). Was this pre or post patch?

[ALovelyLilith]

Pre~!

[mannjon]

Well that settles it! I won't see you guys online for a few days for multiplayer race, but I hope to get some serious new records set! ^_^

[terra-wrists]

You make sure u record us your best races bud :)

Good fortune favours the brave! :+


does that mean id be able to beat you at a race if you are all broken :D:twisted

if I come online, yes :D but I won't. :paperbag

[mannjon]

Ok, so I goofed up last night. I was trying to uninstall and reinstall, but the patch came back.

I guess for this to work you need to uninstall the patch first, then actually uninstall the game. I guess I also need to delete the patch too?

Does anyone know if I have to redownload it, or can I just uninstall then reinstall for this to work?

[Cipher]

If you have digital, just delete the game, then redownload & install, when you launch it up, it'll ask you to update, just cancel after the second or third update and you should be pre patch ;)
And regarding your question, depends what the install data contains, i'd suggest redownloading to be sure, but you could try just uninstalling and then reinstalling (although i thought the PS3 automatically removed the installer after completion?)

and sebenco sub 2 is easy mannjon, if you have a turbo and it's nowhere near where you like using it, just absorb it or use it straight away, if you hold on to it you'll lose too much shield energy barrel rolling (unless you don't roll, but then that explains the tough time getting sub 2 :p)

Try getting some perfect laps with rolls disabled to practice your lines through the corners, then go crazy and turn dem sexy rolls on :D

Cipher

[mannjon]

The perfect laps isn't so much of a problem. Ship ramming seems to be the worst thing to happen to a good run.

As a general sidebar question, it seems like using a turbo as fast as possible is a good strategy in general in Phantom. I typically try to save them back as though I was doing a Time Trial for other speeds, but in Phantom, the shortcuts don't save near as much time as good racing lines. I was able to manage a 2.03.xx yesterday in a Harimau with only one turbo the whole race, which kind of confirms the importance of lines over boost rolls.

[Cipher]

Keep at it, you'll get there ;) Practice is key, on sebenco using your turbo straight away can be dangerous though, so might consider just absorbing it instead ^^
GL!

Cipher

[mannjon]

After much practice I was able to finally get sub 2.00.xx using the post patch version, and I can say this:

The best place to use a turbo seems to be over the final chicane. It saves you about 2 barrel rolls per lap, and if you manage to pull it off low enough, it is the optimal way to go for a race. I agree you Apple-Jack on this one. The turbo on the straight-away is too risky, and the benefits don't see to be worth the risk.

In general, the lines are what keeps making better records.