Slipstream GX as a Pay What You Want game

[Xpand]

Hey guys!

So the team has come up with an idea and we would like to hear your opinion on it.

It's about making Slipstream GX a PWYW, which means at the time of download you can put a price you want to pay for the game, from free ($0) to whatever you feel like.

We're doing this so that people are more aware about the capability of donating since our donation box gets ignored most times, and we would like to get Unity Pro in the near future so we can finish the game.

So what do you think? Put your answer in the Poll, even if you post, please.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Why would anybody say no?

[Mikahail]

Not a bad idea, hope you'll get enough funds to get a Unity Pro license.

(Just donate again, by the way)

[Xpand]

Why would anybody say no?

Believe me, people will find a reason...


Also thank you very much Mikahail! :)

[True Endurance]

I'd pay. Wipeout has been one of my favorite series since the first. Since the future of it is unknown, this game is the best hope to keeping it going. I didn't even know there was a donation option but I'll get on that. I want to see this game finished!

[Xpand]

Thanks a lot! We apreciate it very much! :)

However, this system isn't about us requiring a payment for the game. If someone wishes, they can download the entire thing for free. It's more about making the possibility of donations more visible, rather than having a small donation box that rarely anyone remembers or even knows it's there.

[vincoof]

I didn't even know there was a donation option but I'll get on that.
That’s precisely the problem with a donation-based funding. If it’s not visible enough, nobody will donate. On the other hand, if it’s too aggressive (like donation banners everywhere) that doesn’t give a very good feeling because it looks like programmers are greedy.

@Xpand I like the idea that people can get it for free. I’ve seen this model in places like museums and I think it’s great (I’m not saying the game belongs in a museum, this expression is copyrighted Indiana Jones anyway). However I’m wondering how the system would work with updates? Will you see the "please donate" button every time you want to download a new installer?

And kudos for sharing your plans with the community. It’s always tricky when it comes down to money.

[Xpand]

As it is now using Unity means updates will basically be the whole game, because there's no way to modify or add bits to a compiled build, hence why we don't release new versions that often. But in the chance we manage to get DLC patches and stuff like that that don't require the whole game to come bundled, they'll most likely be stored elsewhere, an "Update" page for example.

[zero3growlithe]

As it is now using Unity means updates will basically be the whole game, because there's no way to modify or add bits to a compiled build [...]

Well, with Unity Pro it is possible: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/downloadable-content.131088/ just a matter of the fact if I'll have time to do it, the real need to do it or if there will be someone eager to make it instead. Of course that only if we'll ever reach the Unity Pro donations goal.

[DIXI200]

TODAY is a year that are registered qui.Io I think my old Mac does not have the requirements to play. But I renew my commitment to donate, this place is good and has a lot of good plans for the future.

[amplificated]

In the first paragraph on your website, it is mentioned, and I quote: "It's a fully non-commercial initiative..."

Is there any reason why this was ever your agenda?

Don't get me wrong, it's fine for goals to change, I just want you to reevaluate such changes thoroughly.

[vincoof]

I’d say it would be commercial if they tried to get profit out of it, which isn’t the case. This is purely a donation system. Would you say that, for instance, the Red Cross is a commercial organization?

By the way, the donation has always been there. Currently you can give money (or not), and if the game goes PWYW you’ll be able to give money… or not! They can’t “reevaluate the changes” because basically nothing’s changing :) They’re just trying to make the Donate button a bit more visible.

[amplificated]

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/business-english/commercial-product

Really, as soon as someone "donated" the project became a for-profit enterprise. People have already made money - they aren't giving it all away to charity, and they aren't a charity case themselves. Opening further potential for making not even just gross-, but net-profit removes any doubt over whether this is a commercial product. And no, Twitch streamers who have "donate" plastered all over their description are not using the actual definition of the word. They are providing a service which allows a user to pay if they want, much like the prospect in discussion here.

Thems the definitions, friend.

Even if the project's directors only intend to recoup their costs for the Unity license, it's best not to provide inaccurate or misleading information for customers, particularly regarding money. It's still being prospected as a commercial product.

Once again, I have absolutely no qualms with the project even becoming totally for-profit (that's not what's happening here), I really have no issues there at all. I just like things being accurate, and I think it's in their interest to be so.

[Xpand]

We're only thinking of spending the money on the resources needed to make the game. We're nor trying to get more than we need. If that does happen we will use that money to for a possible iteration of SSGX. But we're thinking of removing the donation once we get to our goal.

I don't know if it's really a for profit project when we aren't gaining anything with the donations. We're spending everything for the sake of making the game, ergo we have no personal gain. I hope that clears things a bit?

We'll remove the "non-profit" statement from the website if it's that prone to cause confusion. But technically that's what it is. Donations are more about giving the game a chance to look and work better than it would have, than making a profit.

[amplificated]

Last try to get the point across.

You are gaining the means to achieve you goal. Whether that's going to the movies or making a game, whether you plan on stopping watching movies after this one or never making a game again. What you aim to do is a hobby. Hobbies cost money. You wish to effectively have other people pay for your hobby. This makes the hobby into a profession. This makes your hobby a product and/or service.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing.

It sounds pretty simple to me.

I just want you to understand that misleading or confusing customers is a bad practise, and you should reevaluate your already stated goals if you wish to push ahead with the pay what you want model *as it's stated to go forward in this thread's proposal*. That is all.

[dreadofmondays]

I still don't understand/agree.

You are gaining the means to achieve you goal. Whether that's going to the movies or making a game, whether you plan on stopping watching movies after this one or never making a game again. What you aim to do is a hobby. Hobbies cost money. You wish to effectively have other people pay for your hobby. This makes the hobby into a profession. This makes your hobby a product and/or service.
Using this logic, any charity is arguably providing a service to the people they assist. Why does that have anything to do with their status as non profit? Sorry to take a defensive stance, but you are kind of accusing us of misleading people. It's very simple: the game doesn't generate profit. So it's not for profit.
Just because we have funds to deploy on the game doesn't automatically make us a for-profit group; Money spent developing a service is not profit, it's expense, and once we achieve the goal, we'll stop asking. That's our plan right now. We are not attempting to deliberately fool people.

[amplificated]

Charity is attempting to help others with no goal of receiving anything in return. Kind of like what I'm doing here.

You on the other hand, are using SSGX to entice people to give you money. You may be interested to learn of the concept of "gross" profit, as well.

If you want to get into a philosophical argument over what actual charities often really are, I could continue, but I think that would be getting beside the point. And yes, I'm completely aware that you are not deliberately trying to fool people, and I I hope I never implied that. I'm merely trying to help you understand that receiving money for something you make implies that what you have stated - that SSGX is not commercial and that you want donations - sounds like frosting.

There's no need to make such claims, on technicalities they can be construed as being outright false, so why make the claims in the first place? Just be honest. Saying you're "commercial free" is pure marketing bullshit, and calling your tips "donations" is farcical, though common enough practise to earn a pass.

[vincoof]

I’m not sure we could agree on whether SSGX is a “commercial product” or not, unless we have a legal expert or something (and even in that case it could differ e.g. from one country to another). What we do seem to agree, though, is that removing the “commercial-free” claim would definitely fix the issue (granted there is one or there might be one).

[dreadofmondays]

Alright

[kingpin12345]

Just as a idea, instead of PWYWing it, why not get it greenlisted on steam and have it at a set price.

[Xpand]

No, because otherwise we don't want to make people pay for this. PWYW is basically asking if you want to donate at the time of download.

[jumpstartr]

This is a great idea. I've never been inhibited by free software when asked to donate upon download. It's free software; I don't mind having to go through an extra screen, and sometimes, it's worth donating for a great cause.