Wipeout hd running slower on old PAL 50hz TVs (?)

[kleidoscopik_1er]

Hello everyone, i'm needing your help :) .

JFthebestjan recently told me that my game was running 00.05/00.10 sec slower because i'm playing on an old PAL 50hz crt tv.
I was thinking that the speed difference between PAL 50hz TVs and ntsc 60hz ones was only an issue for games running on old gen consoles.

Do you guys have some knowledge about the difference between wipeout hd running on 50hz and 60hz TVs/screens? Do you cofirm the game is running slower in 50hz? If yes, any infos about how much slower it is on PAL 50hz crt TVs?

[JFthebestJan]

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/q-is-there-a-difference-between-50hz-and-60hz-when-a-game-runs-in-30-fps.33874885/

post no.4 explains it very well ;)

[terra-wrists]

uh, does that mean if i switch to 60hz setting, i can get a faster lap?

[Cipher]

This is wrong though, games are programmed to work with the Delta Time (time in between frame updates) to keep everything in sync, it wont run slower, it will just produce less frames, the frames don't "leak" into the next second as explained by that guy, the frames themselves are just different, the position of your ship will be updated differently in which Hz mode you are running, this, usually to compensate for variable monitor refresh rates (computer monitors, but TVs as well)

Eg position update; Position + Velocity*deltaTime =newPosition

So unless playstation games were programmed without the deltaTime (which i highly doubt) this is wrong ;)

Cipher

EDIT; ooooh did some research for it, but yes, old games did not use the deltaTime, but were instead "forced" in PAL mode, so then yes, that would be the case (source; http://theartofhating.blogspot.be/2013/05/i-hate-playing-games-at-pal-50hz.html ), this only applies to old games though
But even if it runs slower, this would mean the in-game time would run slower as well, therefor negating the effect

[JFthebestJan]

@cipher: i tested 576p50hz vs. 720p60hz vs. 1080p60hz. i made a zone run on syncopia with each resolution. there's definitively a difference between SD and HD! i'll make comparison videos, so that you can see it by yourself.

[JFthebestJan]

here are the comparison videos

- 576p/50Hz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Xl8ldUrho&feature=youtu.be

- 1080p/60Hz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksZM22Yl2fU&feature=youtu.be

as you can see the 1080p/60Hz version has nearly 1000points more in the final results.
additionally the 1080p/60Hz version is 0.02 sec faster, although it has driven 5meters more than the 576p/50Hz version.
the 576p/50Hz version reached a higher top speed!

[Cipher]

Hmmmmm, strange, that's a very inaccurate test though, although i must admit the points difference is very strange with nearly the same amount of play time
Might do some tests myself as well now :P

Cipher

[JFthebestJan]

another test made on anulpha pass speed lap venom.
7 laps, no turbos, no barrelrolls, 16 speed pads, 10 sideshifts
576p/50Hz: 34.49
1080p/60Hz: 34.38

[kleidoscopik_1er]

@Cipher: The 50hz issue is something very well know for "old enough" european players. And there is nothing negating the effect for the timer (there is maybe some exceptions ?). That's why even when they use the in-game time, speed runners play on ntsc 60hz version. Check f-zero for example ;)


@JF: Thx for your posts, really interesting. Particulary your SL test. So it seems to be around one tenth slower. That's alot.
But i've no knowledge in material etc. What TV do you use to have 576p/50hz as settings? Is it a crt tv?
By playing on a pal 50hz crt tv, my settings are 576i/50hz. If you know it, what's the difference between 576i & 576p, and what does it means?

[JFthebestJan]

i use a pc-monitor for gaming (samsung syncmaster bx 2331) connected via hdmi. the resolution settings are handled by the ps3. the monitor is capable to manage all resolutions up to 1080p/60Hz native.

the difference between (i) & (p) is simple: i = interlaced; p = progressive (complete picture)

[xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix]

Actually expected the opposing incident. Well, at least there is a difference but i think ill do as well as cipher my own investigation although i dont know what conclusion ill get...

[terra-wrists]

I'm so confused!

[blackwiggle]

It's refresh rate.
Pal uses 50HZ the USA uses 60HZ
CRT displays refresh downward, from top to bottom.
LCD/LED don't exactly refresh the screen in the same way, but the refresh for those screen start on the right then run across the screen to left.

Yes it will make a difference to your times.

So does playing WO HD Racebox in 3D.
The screen refresh rate is halved to 30FPS.

What is happening?
Well the refresh rate effects how you view the game, subsequently this effects 'When' you input control commands.
So if you are viewing the game slower, your input commands are going to be equally as slow, if not slower due to reaction time.

It's cause and effect.

To be honest, I don't think the fastest times achievable have been made yet.
I you had a 120HZ LED/LCD screen, and a PS3 with a controller 'Wired' up to the console, instead of suffering the micro second lag that using wireless controller [that needs to be buffered and sum checked for each control input] you might be able to take a fraction of a second off a lap.
3/10th's perhaps.
Over 5 Lap's of a Phantom TT / SL, that's .95 of a second, accounting for the first lap not being at top speed.