Why do so many people prefer Combat to Racing?

[Richochet]

So you may have thought WipEout was a racing game, but it's not. WipEout isn't about blazing down the track at breakneck speeds using actual skill to outclass your opponents. No no, it's all about going back and forth in a narrow corridor pressing SQUARE over and over to blow up your opponents.

When I go online it seems like 80% of people play WipEout for the combat... It's infuriating not being able to race in multiplayer most of the time because everyone picks combat over and over.

This is an honest question, not just a rant. What about combat in WipEout is so great?

I feel like if you want to blow people up there are plenty of games that are dedicated to combat and do it better than WipEout (you don't even have arenas in WipEout, just narrow tracks which are clearly designed for racing...). So, what makes WipEout's combat so much better than a dedicated combat game? I love WipEout for TT, SL, and Racing. But when it comes to multiplayer (since 2048's multi is so poorly designed and you can't pick what you want to play), I can't actually race most of the time because nearly every lobby outvotes racing. The problem is that all it takes is for a majority of people to prefer combat and chances are you'll have to play combat every single time...

On another note, is there a way to play 2048 multiplayer with friends so that you can agree to race every time? None of my friends wanted to buy a Vita so I can't test the friend features for the system (I'd have to find some random people who like racing in WipEout too... hopefully that's not too hard).

[JFthebestJan]

that's exactly what i was thinking, when i encountered 2048 online for the first time. the online mode as a whole is a complete DISASTER! but believe it or not, if you want to complete 2048 online mode, you literally have to choose combat over racing, because the stupid goals the game gives you from level 14 onwards, are impossible to achieve in racing mode! example: "win the race" + "destroy player XY" + "hit player XY with weapons" etc. so BAD NEWS for all who wants to complete the online mode, you have to go through hours of stupid combat.

[amplificated]

Ultimately it's because Studio Liverpool shoved it down peoples' throats. Like Jan said, the online is a complete shambles and the only/best way to "progress" most of the time is via combat.

If you look at the people who like WipEout, i.e. the people on this website, and ask them what they love about WipEout, "the intense combat action" is probably not the first thing that would be said. In fact, in my case it would be on my most hated list; but that's just me... The problem was that the devs and production staff couldn't have cared less about what made the series appealing and never even bothered to check. Instead, they saw the success of games like Mario Kart and Call of Duty and attempted to emulate them by shoehorning what was a sort of relateable series to those, one that had a preexisting good name to buy a few guaranteed sales and good will, into that mould, and gave themselves a few months to complete it. 2048 is not a racing game, as you said - it's a grindy-shooty-perk-unlock-fest. The only appeal to fans of older games with the name "WipEout" in them are the potential for high speed, and the supposed drive they would have to master the tracks at those speeds... but they deliberately made the gameplay unmasterable, so that's a wipe. There is practically no skill even in racing in 2048 - just chance. Instead of a game like HD where skill could mean a 100% difference from one to another player, in 2048 it may mean 3%. And of course, to minimise that gap even further, combat is forced upon all players so that the people who like those games would have a chance to "compete".

2048 is an example of the most obvious problem in the gaming industry - the people who make games don't a **** about games, only money. The only things 2048 is going to be remembered for are non-stop combat of the most tediously crap variety; not being able to play the game properly due to **** controls and gameplay; a **** unlock system; and a resentful, beyond limited interface that restricts how you can play the game. Maybe also **** loading times.

[JABBERJAW]

Noone likes the combat here. The only thing is this for wipeout fans is speed laps and A+ challenges. Multiplayer was messed up royally, no choice for race mode, track, or speed, and you have a game wipeout fans don't like. I get pissed like amplificated every time this topic is brought up because the game should have been more.

[dreadofmondays]

The fact is that despite the OP's assertations to the contrary, it IS a rant that you guys are doing. Your statement about 80% of players playing entirely for combat is a lie. The fact is they are probably practising in Speed Lap or organising and playing in tournaments like the ones on this forum. Or perhaps they just wanted to try eliminator for the first time. Can you blame them?
Combat is part of wO. I'm not saying you should be forced to do it, but if you want to race green, start your own lobby and switch weapons off. You can always go onto these forums and organise a green race. I'm sure that they are lots of people willing to join that.
I find that combat is equally fun, and I am partial to some rounds of eliminator myself. That doesn't automatically make me unable to race green.
And personally I think it is really unfair to bash 2048 for having the sheer audacity to appeal to more players. Their games weren't pulling the cash anymore - and you can say what you like about Studio Liverpool 'only caring about money'. I bet you anything that they possibly cared more about the survival of their own STUDIO, which would be shut down if they didn't improve profits. So they made the games more appealing to casual players. What were they supposed to do in that situation? What would YOU have done? Edit: And hell, refusing to dumb it down even further is what killed them.

[Richochet]

Hey dread, thanks for the response, but it is apparent that you didn't read carefully. We never condemned Eliminator ( HD ) or Combat ( 2048 ) in its entirety. Especially telling is the fact that you brought up greenlight. This isn't about racing with weapons vs racing without weapons. Rather, racing vs not racing at all (Eliminator). Greenlight vs non-Greenlight racing is another matter entirely. Though not relevant, I'll just add that I do enjoy both race variants.


The fact is that despite the OP's assertations to the contrary, it IS a rant that you guys are doing.

Actually I explicitly state that it's not just a rant. I honestly wonder why so many play combat instead of racing. Perhaps the response I got was by primarily like-minded people ranting, but that wasn't the point of this post. The point is I want to understand what part of Combat Events in WipEout is so alluring for all the people who do play WipEout multiplayer for the Combat Events ( 2048 ) or Eliminator ( HD ). And it IS true that a MAJORITY of players online do play combat. You clearly don't pay attention when you go online if you don't know that is the case. 80% was obviously just a random percent as I don't have access to the actual data, but at any given time when you go online in 2048 a majority of the time Combat Event is picked. So, why?

amplificated speculated that it has to do with the idea that fulfilling multiplayer objectives is easier in Combat Events rather than people truly preferring it. I can see that, but my hope was to actually get feedback from people who do enjoy the Combat Events and pick them most of the time because they prefer it. I didn't get anyone like that to respond so either amplificated is right (that a majority of people do not prefer it but are driven towards it for the sake of objectives) or WipEout Zone members are biased towards racing relative to the overall player-base.

Also addressing your points
1. You say perhaps they wanted to try eliminator for the first time. Sure, I'm fine with a game of eliminator every once in a while, but I wouldn't have posted if it were just 1/4 or even 1/2 eliminator.
2. Yes I have played greenlight races but I actually enjoy both combat and non-combat races as I stated above. It's not about different types of racing, it's about not racing at all (Eliminator/Combat Events). It's all good in HD/Fury. I don't even mind that there are many eliminator lobbies in HD/Fury because you can still make race lobbies and find people to play with. The thing is, your point regarding greenlight is not relevant because I was talking about 2048, not HD. HD isn't a problem for the aforementioned reasons. Even if only 60% of people prefer combat in 2048, it means that you can easily get stuck in a lobby where you are outvoted and have to play Combat Events (Eliminator) EVERY time. Again, I don't mind playing some Combat Events, but not 80%* combat when my primary enjoyment is derived from racing.
3. I never directed any malice towards Studio Liverpool and I do agree with you that you can't fully blame them without knowing the complete picture. Was I disappointed with 2048, yes. In singleplayer, no racebox. And in multiplayer a terrible system that doesn't let players set up lobbies for the game modes they want to play. Instead you have to hope that the people in your lobby want to play the same gametype that you do (which usually isn't the case for me since combat IS picked far more often than race). However, I don't blame Studio Liverpool. They likely had a deadline to meet given by Sony as they were a launch title. Given time, perhaps they would have given us racebox and improved multiplayer, but unfortunately they were shutdown before we could see. So, despite being disappointed, I don't harbor any ill will towards SL.

*Again, even if only 60% of people vote for Combat Events, it still translates into the lobby playing Combat far more than 60%. When I was going through the multiplayer campaign to unlock the skins before getting bored, I did play an average of 4 Combat Events for every 1 Race Event. Sometimes I would get lobbies where there would be a fair number of Race votes, but as long as a majority preferred Combat, even a slim majority, I would still only rarely get to play Races...

[dreadofmondays]

Alright, thanks for the clarification. Glad that you didn't take it personally either. I don't really have much to say in response, I stand by what I said. But I can see your point of view.

[Hellfire_WZ]

And personally I think it is really unfair to bash 2048 for having the sheer audacity to appeal to more players. Their games weren't pulling the cash anymore - and you can say what you like about Studio Liverpool 'only caring about money'. I bet you anything that they possibly cared more about the survival of their own STUDIO, which would be shut down if they didn't improve profits. So they made the games more appealing to casual players. What were they supposed to do in that situation? What would YOU have done?

This. This. THIS x1000

Some of you seriously have no idea of that side of what they had to deal with, because if you did, there's no way you would be saying what you are. At the end of the day, the game had to make money and SL were at the mercy of Sony, not to mention the studio was a mere fraction of the size it was for HD. If you think they had total freedom to make this game then you couldn't be more wrong. I will not have this topic turning into yet another ill-informed rant on this.

And this is the calm version of my reply. I had to take a long time to let the red mist clear after reading some of these accusations.

Richochet - to answer your question, unfortunately it is indeed the objective system that is the main cause for the prevalence of combat races. The majority of the later objectives are so much easier to meet in combat events that races rarely get a look in.

[leungbok]

I perfectly understand the dilemma of studio Liverpool, but it's really boring to see publishers (sony in that case) still thinking they will make more money if they target the casual players :rolleyes:
"Wii" syndrome is still alive in big companies but the market evolves and for licences with small fan base like wipeout, you'll lose more hardcore fans than attract new comers.
It's a pity for wipeout and SL to have been sacrificed on the altar of this narrow view.

[yeldar2097]

Hellfire is right, Sony had quite the stranglehold over our favourite studio.
That said, from my point of view I think there were certain core aspects of the 'WipEout' game which should not have been abandoned/ignored.
I have no doubt it would have improved the experience for the newcomers as well as the vets.

Even glitchy, bugged-out HD is still easy to introduce people to. Do a few races and a zone in front of them and next thing you know they want it on their PS3.
2048 I get a lot more of a 'meh' response, although that might be something to do with nobody actually owning a Vita.

Get a WipEout on PS4 it'll sell in spades. Even non-WipEout'ers find it weird that it's not coming.
Real shame Sony couldn't ignore their own bs for a while and wait till SL could give them something really special.

Back on topic: Combat is more exciting and satisfying than racing. Racing games aren't that popular compared to most things, certainly those involving actual racing as opposed to the illusion of it.
It's much easier not to have your ego affected by combat, everyone gets a bit of everything every now and again, frag here, frag there, no hurt feelings, no bruised ego. With racers, if you're slower than someone, you're worse, that's all there is to it, and people don't like that.
Of course that kind of person is probably more suited to namby-pamby combat anyway, it's about the ultimate pursuit of speed against the game and against yourself, it's not about anything else.
People don't like sims (WO is future sim :D), they're too hard. No instant gratification via EXCITING SPLOSiONS , no sale.

[amplificated]

This. This. THIS x1000

Some of you seriously have no idea of that side of what they had to deal with, because if you did, there's no way you would be saying what you are. At the end of the day, the game had to make money and SL were at the mercy of Sony, not to mention the studio was a mere fraction of the size it was for HD. If you think they had total freedom to make this game then you couldn't be more wrong. I will not have this topic turning into yet another ill-informed rant on this.

And this is the calm version of my reply. I had to take a long time to let the red mist clear after reading some of these accusations.

I can understand that Sony had demands for 2048, but I can't understand how SL can be absolved of every single thing that went wrong with the game. I obviously don't know what the situation was there with any level of intimacy, but some people seem to think SL are innocent of any and all wrongdoing... which sounds strikingly unbelievable, especially now that SL is no more - if it was all on Sony, how were they expecting a miracle to save the studio if they wanted to keep them around? Why did they commission the game in the first place if they were just going to close SL down anyway? If SL were all some of you crack them up to be, surely Sony would have received feedback from them saying that 2048 isn't all that, feedback which would have factored into those previous questions? etc.

I'm not going to say SL are a bad studio, but a matter of a simple but fundamental mistake is kinda being blown out of proportion here. SL have made some great games, ones I've enjoyed enough to spend hundreds of hours playing. I just don't have a reason to think that they (SL) were flawless until Big Bad Sony came along and... let them make a whole bunch of good games... and then after one bad one, it's Big Bad Sony. It can't possibly be that what we got in 2048 reflects on SL just as much.

Until I'm lead to believe otherwise, that's my stance on things.

[dreadofmondays]

Let SL launch your titles for more than a decade, and then the moment profits start to fall, you axe the entire studio?
Sounds like Big Bad Sony to me.

[Rapier Racer]

I don't mean to derail this or anything but regarding the talk of the games not making money. Did Wipeout HD/Fury not make money? Or not enough? I would be surprised to find out it didn't make SL cash if anyone is able to enlighten ?

[Hellfire_WZ]

Stephen, you have mail on that one.

This has gone far enough off topic now. The original question has been answered and all this has turned into now is more of the random speculation that I thought we were all over by now.

Closed.