Training mode?

[mangaroo]

A new player sees the action and racing in wipeout, decides to pick it up but still struggles to fully enjoy the best aspects of the game as navigating the laps still troubles them. Solution? Speedlaps. Obviously, we stayed and trained but I am sure many don't. Maybe they just aren't after that perfecting lap-time aspect of the game but why not. It is an amazing rush, more so than any other racing game I've played. As well as BF3 style videos with intense racing and combat moments which should definitely be done more to advertise the game, it would really appeal to gamers. But also, similar to zone mode - a training mode:

Imagine the map being really washed out, everything in the cities out of focus (figuratively), except the track being highlighted but still rather simply. Highlighting the walls and speed pads, perhaps the the rest of the city can be in geometric outline form. The ship itself can be x-rayed (transparency) with the centre of gravity for the ship being represented. And then the tough, but awesome part that would really seal it as a training mode: racing lines. 1 line showing a default optimal line (not necessarily including tricks like BR). Then 2nd, perhaps less bright and dotted and more transparent - showing the direction you are heading in and dynamically adjusting the position of the dots ahead of you. If anyone could make it work it would be SL. An option to switch between the speed classes would be good too. Can show you improvements in sections of the track in more detail perhaps even a replay mode etc.

I really feel there should be more fans for the series, would this help?

Edit: For the flare, as you drive perfect sections of the track, a travelling beam of colour lights up the platform ahead of you, but fades as you crash...just for further motivation.

The toughest part of wipeout for me is maintaing that focus in predicting what I have to do next, this could really help set in the muscle memory needed for some really fun online combat.
I am a huge fan of zone mode as entertainment, but I don't think it really achieves what this would.

[Oryx Crake]

I get where you're coming from but in my opinion part of the wipeout charm is that you have to sort of figure it out for yourself. That's to say, part of what makes wipeout appealing to me as a competitive game is that it isn't so easily mastered, you don't get more help than is strictly speaking necessary to be able to understand how to play the game well. Others might disagree with me and I'm sure it makes it less accessible to casual gamers but I dunno if I think thats such a bad thing... for one it seems to be part of why the online community is made up of mostly decent and respectful players.

That might sound conservative I know, but it is one of the things that sort of keeps the series from being more than a flashy futuristic version of any other generic racing game to me.

[mangaroo]

I know what you mean, that satisfaction you get from learning the correct way to take a corner and being able to pull it off lap after lap. That is a great feeling but I think this wouldn't take too much away from that. After all, it isn't controlling your ship as the pilot assist does - you still have to learn how to take the line, but it gives them something to aim for and an easier way to learn how to correct it so they can accelerate their learning which I think may be too much a challenge for a lot of gamers and this would help them enjoy their experience more - optional as training modes should be of course. (edit: I'd never want to incorporate the racing lines into other events, but just as the separate practice mode.)

Good thing about wipeout is we don't really have a mic option so the closest thing to trash talk distractions we will get is through the photos in 2048 ;)

[TypeProton]

Wipeout is hard to new player? I think it's damned simple as it can be. Just take the first-easiest career race and move on. Also there's Time Trial mode for that.
Actions in the late Wipeout (HD,2048 etc.) are too fast to use racing lines.
In my opinion, people tend to really learn something when you throw them into action. :P

Maybe introducing pick-up one by one should help though. Players have trouble recognize pick-ups symbols.
Also, airbrakes.

[docfo4r]

Exactly.
I played the game Fatal Inertia EX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eJ3N7BuRUU&feature=related), which is kinda the same style of racing and in the career the first thing you do is get to an "introduction" race. It's a simple track [actually, you race along a square] and when you fly over a pad, the game slows down for 3 seconds and a text shows up telling you all important informations about the recent pickup. And in this one race, the pickups aren't random, you get exactly the same pickup for a short amount of time until the pads offer the next pickup. This way it was totally easy for me to learn the pickup symbols and the handling of the ship aswell.

Still I like the idea with the out-of-focus surroundings and the highlighted track. Maybe an idea for Slipstream (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?7584-Let-s-make-a-Wipeout-game!-This-time-for-real!)?

[mangaroo]

Sorry forgot about this for a while. Wipeout definitely is difficult for new players, what are you on about TypeProton, :P You are right though about the actions in the faster speed being a concern for this idea, perhaps might be able to do something by changing the way the dotted line refreshes/appears for the different speed classes but still think the whole mode would be much funner way for those that don't get much enjoyment out of speed laps like we do, and could lead to more longer-term fans.

I never tried fatal inertia but I remember seeing trailers at the time and being quite interested. Wipeout's never held your hand that much and I don't think it should give you more tutorials than the info tips and the manual but I agree that one of things that is difficult for a first comer is learning the weapons symbols. Think they ought to read the manual though really if they are having trouble/in-game information is always a plus though (in an Info section). Although an optional tutorial race where things do stop when you go over it for the first time would actually be a good idea for first time players. Wouldn't really affect regulars much at all but might be really valuable to new comers as well. They should have done these things instead of a COD campaign :P Might be worth mentioning it on the Facebook direct message page for wipeout ( Facebook.com/wipeout2048 (http://www.Facebook.com/wipeout2048) ).

If anyone in slipstream reckons it would be worth including I say go for it, only thing I imagine slipstream will be more for regular fans of the series although I can understand if they see it's potential in attracting new players, will it be a commercial product though? If so it may prevent SL from putting it in which would be counter productive really.

It definitely is fun to learn the tracks on your own (for us) but surely you can see that being too steep a challenge on its own for many others.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

I love the idea of a tutorial mode. I also love the idea of how it would look: A monochrome Zone-style track with the buildings outside the track styled the same way as the Mirror's Edge main menu. The Pads and your ship would still be fully colored though. Same thing with the racing line, though I am not sure about a line indicating which direction you're going in. Maybe just a glowing line on the track indicating the racing line would be enough, but it would have to be either two lines which get closer or farther apart, or a wide and translucent line.

The tutorial track should be a simple speedway, but with wide roads, two shallow corners, two sharp corners, and a pit-lane. In addition, one of the sharp corners and one of the shallow corners will be banked, and in some parts there will be track inclines to either steer you on to a onto proper racing line or away from the sides of the track (less problematic than pilot assist, and also built-in to the track).


( http://www.facebook.com/wipeout2048 )
Edit your post, click on 'Go Advanced', and then check the box marked 'Disable Smileys in Text'

[mangaroo]

Thanks for the smiley post tip. The visual idea is essentially how you described, with the intention of making it easier to focus on the driving(?) in this mode. I'm also not certain about the second line but I imagine with a bit of thought something beneficial (optional perhaps) - just to seal the usefulness of having a separate mode. I know the main issue with it is that it would update too frequently and impede vision..so simple attempt to fix it would be to limit the visibility of the second line with transparency and smaller balls that don't update as frequently as you move, but rather to a set time, like every 0.1 seconds, one dot would appear and one would fade. I imagine it starting about 30 or so metres ahead of you (judging by the size of the crowd textures!) - otherwise i'd describe it as 5ft ahead of you (semi-circular radius I guess).

I like the idea of separate tutorial tracks as well, might make things even easier to implement (without having to retexture all those props in the other maps) - except for the design of the tutorial tracks. The second line may not be as crucial with this option.

Bit specific and but I'd love a track which was basically a downhill spiral with various differring corners, sort of in the same light as sol but fully fledged - also without the invisible cage so we could fly through the track and use it as a skatepark like when motorstorc rc first loads up. Might as well make a skatepark map for wipeout as well!

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

While it is a cool idea, it might be a little too difficult for the new players and/or heavy craft. I think it might be a good idea to have a seperate tutorial campaign that has multiple tutorial tracks, and unlike the grids in WipEout HD this would have Semi-linear progression, teaching you the basics first (on the speedway track I came up with) and then teaching you about the concept of uphill and downhill and the use of airbrakes, then teaching you about Mag Locks, the list goes on. Each track would be fine-tuned into teaching you one of the important aspects of the game, but will still contain areas where you need to apply knowledge you learned earlier.

Also, for weaponry training I think it should do the same thing Fatal Inertia does, but with a few changes:
- When it gives you the weapon, there will be a barrier that you can only get passed by destroying it with the specified weapon. It would look like a transluscent, colorful forcefield with a hexagonal pattern on it. This will force the player to train themself with the use of each weapon to progress.

Tutorial Track Ideas:
- The Basics (my speedway)
- Uphill and Downhill (what you said)
- Mag Locks and Jumps (a track with a boatload of maglocks, undulations, and drops)
- Track Inclines (teaching you about banked corners, inclined straight sections, and what to do when you come across a corner like the one in Chenghou Project)
- Advanced Techniques (while the mode will by default indicate a racing line, this track will actually teach you about racing lines, barrel rolls, airbrakes, and sideshifts)

[mangaroo]

The progressional training method is good too and more efficient in training which is the whole point but not as fun for us regulars though (moot point I know) ;) Maybe some bonus difficult practice tracks at the end.
I like the tutorial track ideas, and definitely think it will be useful for teaching principles to newcomers - which itself would lead to people enjoying the game more and hopefully staying for the long run. The more I think about this the more I appreciate what they were trying to do with the online, but still left out too much.*

I think it would be nice to have weaponry training as well but I'm not certain barriers would be helpful really, nor work with all the weapons? Perhaps having a weapon training stage with AI (that don't attack) which will adapt their position to what weapon you pick up - as well as the fatal inertia Text info/weapon explanation (+/- video demonstration).

So you can practice aim and timing rapidly: perhaps a pause menu with options like - what weapon you want - when highlighted a gif plays showing how it's used ( on the other side of the list ). This way you don't need to pick the weapon up, and you can have more attempts faster. Option to increase number of AI targets and speed would be helpful too.

*They could have used the goals they used in MP in the weapon target stages to flesh them out too. They should have just had different lobbies for skill level in MP if they wanted newcomers to experience more victories. Beginner, Intermediate and whatever - hopefully only an honour system would be required with wipeout but can have backup like forced movement up a league like with sc2 when you win too many or lose too many. That would have been amazing.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

What would also be awesome would be a track exclusive to Eliminator mode that was designed form the ground up for Eliminator matches, with less racing and more flying around and shooting eachother. Omnidirectional speed pads would certainly help.

[mangaroo]

Yep, yep and yep - not just for training.

All of these modes is of course a lot for add-on content to this one, but couldn't hurt the next wipeout. All the difficult games that require practice/skill to fully enjoy (beatemups/racing games) have a training mode these days and speed-laps, although pure - aren't quite that to the fullest extent anyway.

I know this is off topic but it got me thinking about what they were attempting with MP and helping newcomers feel like they are winning:

Perhaps if there were 3 or more divisions. Beginner, Intermediary, Expert/whatever - the placement is NOT automatically determined like with SC2 where you win too many = move up a league, lose too many: drop down.
What happens is you are free to choose what you division you play in (cool icon buttons perhaps), but if your win/ratio is more than a certain amount then you are limited from entering the lower division's games for a certain while.
This way the victories achieved will feel more satisfying and any race events can be fully customised in the division.
Limits on players with say 10 consecutive victories or 15/20 number 1 placements etc. The limit would be represented by a positive notification reflecting their skill. Can be more strict with the ratios in the beginner groups as well. The limit would be a block of entering the lower league until their win rate drops a little bit or a long absence (and they are not informed - so if they start losing too many in the higher league and need a confidence boost, they can go back into the one league below) - seems like 5 leagues may be better than 3.

This would encourage competition much more than the pseudo victories (sorry ;0) ) and what the current MP setup does and that's what is essential these days for it to take off. Regular fans try and get that competitive feeling from the speed-lap time comparisons but this would be so much bigger.

They might need better servers though..I sent the message over but always better when bounced of you guys as well.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Just going to resurrect this awesome idea.
Btw, we're still working on Slipstream GX (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?7584-Let-s-make-a-Wipeout-game!-This-time-for-real!), and we got a few new members of our team. Even better, I just started a new RP thread for the project. Now, anyone can help out, not just skilled developers.

Go ahead and hop in:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8928-Slipstream-GX-Roleplay&p=219270#post219270