How we should implement weapons in Slipstream GX

[TypeProton]

[Wondering what Slipstream GX is? Click here (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?7584-Let-s-make-a-Wipeout-game!-This-time-for-real!/page162)]

Sorry, I took the liberty to set up a poll. Should make things faster.

Oryx Crake - Slot type : Players choose which and how many pickups they can use in the race with them, right from the beginning.
Docfo4r - Battle Sector type : A field that allow player to charge energy for their weapons will be placed along the track. Player can set their loadout of 4 weapon at the beginning to use in races but they must charge their weapons inside said field first. Any weapon of player's choosing then can be fired.
Zero3growlithe - Sequence type : Use weapon pads. But when the player hit the weapon pad, the weapon of same color category will be drawn out sequentially instead of randomized.
TypeProton - Random Pool type : Players choose their loadout at the beginning of the race. When players hit the weapon pad, a weapon will be drawn out of the loadout pool randomly. Player cannot stack weapon in his/her list. (Ex: No 3 Turbo in your list, only 1.)

[docfo4r]

Umm the energy field was actually only for charging. Of course the player should be able to fire the weapon whereever he wants to. Can you correct that?

[TypeProton]

Done. ;)

[zero3growlithe]

In my opinion: (me again...)
In Oryx's Loadout type player can end up just being equipped with boost so he can win easly (or quake)

In Docfo4r (if I understood good) player can select for example weapon similar to quake and load only this weapon so he'll be unbeatable (or boost)

In my sequence type player can.... hmmm, not much as load can look like this (I'll take WOHD weapons):
Shooting: 1. Cannon 2. Leach Beam 3. Rockets 4. Missile 5. Quake
Defense: 1. Shield 2. Auto Pilot 3. Boost
Mines: 1. Mines 2. Bomb
And he's doomed xd

Proton's type... hmmm, same as for Oryx and Docfo4r

Feel free to criticize my idea xD

[docfo4r]

Well for my idea, actually you can pick up around 4 weapons before the race [make a weapon profile, save it] and in the race you can use whatever weapon you want out of the 4, but instead of flying over a single pad, you have to fly through a light beam for let's say 2-3 seconds without getting out of it. Once you've done that you can fire a weapon of your choice for one time before having to power up your energy in the light beam again.
Of course there is not one endless lightbeam all over the track, but some short light beams here and there [just like the weapon pads].
Maybe for advancing the game in campaign for skilled people: Make the light beams move very slowly over the track aswell, so they won't still to the same position all the time. Just a thought.

Since it's my own idea, I of course made my choice but other than that I also like TypeProton's idea.

[docfo4r]

Woops, sorry for double posting. Browser didn't refresh the side :/

[Oryx Crake]

well there is certainly a risk of that but on the other hand if you say that you cant carry as many turbos as you can say rockets a good strategist can easily take care of green racers, you see it happening in wohd all the time, though the trick will be balancing it. I mean sure, if you can have 6 turbos per race then yes you will be very hard to catch if you can only on the other hand carry a maximum of 3 turbos you'll be forced to consider options. Thats my idea anyway.

But I really liked doc's suggestion of having you choose what 4 or 5 different pickups you can use on your ship before the race and then use regular pickup pads. there is a degree of luck involved but the degree of strategy is much higher than in wipeout the way it is now. And if you take it a step further saying that for example if you carry turbos you can't carry quakes and vice versa for example you get an even higher degree of strategy and skill involved.

Just playing around with ideas here too. but you could marry mine and doc's idea with yours as well you get to pick a number of different systems before hand and you cycle through them by the same mechanism you proposed so that if you have 5 different alternatives and you pick: rockets, missile, shield, reflector and turbo. say you get rockets on the first pick up missile on the second etc. if you don't use them in between. How to balance this system might be something we need to discuss but yeah.

[TypeProton]

Just a note, my method doesn't allow players to stack weapon in his/her list. You can't have 3 Turbo on you, just one.
I voted for Zero's though. :)

[zero3growlithe]

@Oryx: Well, now it changes everything, like Aspect's idea with weapons having their weight, if u take too many heavy weapons your ship won't fly ^^ Now it makes sense.
@Docfo4f: Maybe every weapon needs a certain amount of power to be fully charged so it will be much more fair? With that it is great too :)
@Proton: Oh, so if player can select an array of weapons at the beginning then we can make it only one weapon at the beginning but with player getting credits it can be expanded with stronger weapons! :D Heeeeeee, cool, now I don't know which one to pick xd
Maybe new option in main menu: Weapons Draw Mode? xd

[docfo4r]

@Docfo4f: Maybe every weapon needs a certain amount of power to be fully charged so it will be much more fair? With that it is great too :)


Didn't think of that yet. Wow, definately would be cool!

Also for clearing up misunderstandings: There isn't ONE energy field, but a certain number on different places on the track [like pads]. Actually, basically it's just like you have to fly over a pad which is a little longer than the normal arrow-sign we have in Wipeout. And instead stretching the pad graphics, I thought about an energy field, a light beam, something like this...

[Oryx Crake]

actually zero that could be tied to the difficulty settings, elite would make for the most restrictive weapon system and then falling hardness, if we somehow manage to make it online multiplayer compatible (which would be beyond awesome but perhaps a little hard to pull off) you could easily distinguish between serious lobbies and lol-lobbies by what weapon system is used as well.

[zero3growlithe]

I've looked a little at an tutorial on how to make a simple multiplayer game in Unity aaaaaand yeah... that looks a little... complicated :S

[Oryx Crake]

yeah I figure it'll be a bit of a big project for only one person to program... Pipe dream I think is the word ^^; perhaps if the game is successful someone else will volonteer to help us XD

[Rotational_aspect]

If you want to do multiplayer in the future, you may want to organise 'hooks' for the multiplayer to bolt onto without any major rewrites: at the minute I am making an extensive timer that does split times (between the leader and second / player and second), total race time, lap time, best time etc but at this stage I can see if I write things a certain way for single player (the easy option) it would require a whole rewrite if I wanted multiplayer in the end.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

------ My idea for the weapon distribution system ------

I think the best method (in my opinion) is the way it is done in WipEout 2048, with seperate Offensive and Defensive weapon pads.

If you wanted to, there could also be the classic red pads which are non-discriminate and would either give you an offensive or defensive weapon. You could have all three types of weapon pads on a single track. Not only that, but in Speed Laps and Time Trials you might be able to keep Defensive weapons (excluding Mines and Bombs) available.

------

But I actually came here to suggest a better version of the Turbo pickup. I call it the Afterburner. Basically, it is a fuel based version of the Turbo. This way, you could control the speed boost to avoid flying off the track, gaining too much height, or crashing into a wall. In addition, you would be able to make it last longer and use it more than once (or use it all at once if you feel the need).

Other ideas of mine are to make mines* stay on the track indefinetly, to merge rockets and homing missiles** (to make things simpler), and to make a new version of the quake icon***

---
*Pun unintended
**Without a target, it is just three dumbfire rockets. However, if you give it a target they will merge into a single homing missile which will ricochet off walls.
***Like in wip3out, the Quake icon will start as a lowercase Q, and then it will split into two parallel lines which will spike like they do in Pulse and HD, and then it will end with an arrow at the end of each line, or if you want make you can make them the same arrow.


------ Afterburner Mock-Up Icon Finished ------



I finished prototype of the Afterburner Icon.
6128
I used the WipEout Pulse/WipEout HD Turbo Icon as a base, then worked my way up from there. The software used was Paint.NET (http://www.getpaint.net)

The Anti-Aliasing was done simply by doubling the size of the image and then returning it to its original size. Super Sampling was used.
Please give me feedback, and also keep in mind that it was done in about 5 minutes and I don't have very much skill at image-making.

Copied from Slipstream GX mainthread.


------ Old Mines versus New Mines ------


Rather than deploying a chain of floating mines, it will launch a cluster of mines behind you, which will cover a section of track in a random formation. These mines will attach to the track instead of floating, and thus they will be harder to see and they can only be destroyed either with an Autocannon, a Plasma Bolt, a Quake or an explosion. They are magnetically attracked to ships and will attach to any craft that passes over them. They will have a three second detonation delay, so you won't know that you just passed through a minefield until it is too late. Unlike in earlier games, these will stay on the track until they are triggered. If you activate a Shield, it will detach any mines from your craft and will prevent others from hitching a ride. Note that this will not reset their detonation timer.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Must racers choose a selection of weapons? How about a "priorities" list where pilots list,in descending order of importance,the weapons which they would like to use? This way,the pilots are not locked out of any weapons,but still have a 'strategy' that they can use.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

That could cause some issues, as a player could almost always get the more powerful weapons. Maybe we should re-balance all of the weapons so that they all have their own advantages and disadvantages. If we do that, then even the 'weakest' weapons will have the capability to completely destroy someone if you use them the right way. Note that by 'weakest', I am excuding the items that do no damage at all.

[Oryx Crake]

to be honest I like any idea that allows races to be less random. and I don't know if it will give zero too much of a headache to implement but possibly you could set difficulty levels with the way weapons are used, the most rigid and least random way for the hardest difficulty and more random the further down you go in difficulty i.e. only 3 choices for top difficulty (for example) and completely random all weapons for least difficulty or something, depending on what the weapon system looks like in the end of course.

As for the individual weapon effects, in the end we're probably going to have to compromise on some things, like how spectacular the weapons are and how many different types we have and so on but for now I think any idea is a good idea

Also that afterburner thing was used in WO3 they called it hyperthrust, it used shield energy for fuel though if we had that I wonder if barrel rolls wouldn't be a tad much... perhaps I dunno it merits discussion :)

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

My idea isn't quite as extreme as Hyperthrust, and you can still run out of fuel eventually. For Speed Laps and Time Trials, Hyperthrust would be abused because you have Infinite Health. My Afterburner has its own fuel. You can only get a fresh Afterburner by running over Weapon Pads or by completing a lap in a Time Trial or Speed Lap.

Speaking of which, I just installed an Afterburner on this thread. Hopefully, it shouldn't get pulled to the bottom again. I hate the Variable Gravity of the Internet.