The direction of wipEout – thoughts of an old lover

[aries]

Hello everyone.
Let me introduce myself: my name is Gabriele, I'm an italian graphic designer, I play wipeout from ever and I can say that game changed my life, 'cause it started my love for electronic music and -especially- for graphic design, my current field of work. Please forgive my bad english.

I've been banned from this forum a long time ago. I said things about the development team that the moderators did not like (Lancer, perhaps?). Who knows, maybe I'll be banned again after this topic, but the possibility that someone could read what I have to say it's worth it.

I really, really do not like the direction that the brand has undertaken. Maybe I'm arrogant, but It seems to me that Studio Liverpool is misrepresenting the spirit that pervaded the early episodes, and that The Designer Republic had managed to infuse the game, for both aesthetic and gameplay.

WipEout is an IP that is constantly shifting from cutting edge aesthetics and modernity into a more toy-like, friendly and "populist" vision of the future. The most obvious aspect is the continued deviate from the basic mechanics (starting from Fusion) towards more guns and fighting focused modes, or the development of the aircraft (remember those floating tanks at the end of the game, and how they had little in common with the streamlined ships of the early episodes). Now they're changing controls and flaps, I know it's optional, but says a lot about the vision that SL has about the game. Anyway this is the most obvious and easily correctable aspect, because basically wipeout is a game that is always entertaining and in the end I had lot of fun even with wipEout HD.

The most controversial aspect is the conceptual and aesthetic.
Let's say things as they are: Wipeout is no longer cool. They're improving a lot the technology, that is what the user can better understand and evaluate, and being the tech-advanced ones when a new hardware comes out helps sales. Tracks are enriched with thousands of objects, each ship is overly detailed and every track surface is covered with shiny or rusty shader. Is this enough?
Modestly, I think this is almost a problem. It seems to me that when the developers had to deal with more restrictive technological limitations every detail was carefully considered and the overall project more carefully designed. Now everything can be done, and so everything is granted. What happened to the minimalism that characterized the series?

Look at this screen from w3se:

http://www.aimargini.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/w3_boh.jpg

And now let's look at 2048:

http://static.blogo.it/gamesblog/wipeout-2048/Wipeout2048_05.jpg

Where's that graphic design? Graphic design is not just in the team logos or advs: concrete, skies, trees, buildings, HUD, everything needs to be in harmony with the graphic design.
I was reading on EDGE that the team wanted this episode to fill the gap in the wipeout timeline, showing a "near future" version of wipeout: but what was Karbonis if not this? Arridos, or even the first Altima?

http://www.aimargini.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/w1_karbonis.jpg

Now:

http://media.multiplayer.it/thumbs/images/2011/11/23/19520wipeout2048_9_jpg_640x360_upscale_q85.jpg

This does not seem to me wipeout in a contemporary version, it seems to me a bland wipeout where graphic design has been neglected.

At least the team is sincere, 'cause you can understand this from the cover:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Wipeout3.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Wipeout_2048_Boxart.jpg

This design is simply not wipeout. This is Quantum Redshift. Or F-Zero. Or every other futuristic racing game. But this is not... "classy". It is not as refined as a wipeout title should be.


I say this not for futile controversy, but because I genuinely love the brand and it hurts me to see it losing pieces episode after episode. And I read some reviews about this new episode, but no one seems to capture these aspects, and certainly none with the importance that I do.

Studio Liverpool, you need a strong art direction. A dictatorial art direction, not only involved in the trappings but in every particle of which wipeout is composed.
Probably if I were more enterprising and more brave, and if I had a good resume to show I would try to pull off these ideas from within the team, but maybe I'm not and I can only try to send this message hoping someone will get it someday. I do not want to offend or disrespect anyone, everything I say I say for the sake of the brand and because I have a very strong idea of what wipeout could still give, of what it might be today. Of course if one day someone call me to lend a hand to SL I would not pull back ; ) , but now the way I know to help is to say these things, to point out the problem. I want to apologize in any case for the wall of text and for the inevitable English errors that it certainly contains. I wrote some time ago a retrospective of wipEout games (http://www.aimargini.com/?p=1354) that is better written and goes in depth, but it's in italian and I don't know if there's even one single person here that speak my language. ; )

I'm curious to read your opinion about it and see if there is someone who thinks things like these.



Thank you for reading this far and good night,

Gabriele

[Xpand]

Well, here's what I think happened (I also like the classic design of the game): 2048 is the natural progression of HD Fury. It no longer respects the actual tech/event timeline that characterized the whole game, which tends to happen when a game, like wipeout, has such a strong timeline, going forwards in every version and then a prequel is released after all those changes in the ship/track design. I mean, we all know that mag-lock only appeared after the FX-300 league (Pure), but WO2048 has it. We all know that until Pure there was no such thing as barrel rolls, and yet 2048 has it. This is something that should be expectable since back then they didn't have enough processing power to create such detailed environments and immersive feeling, and, after almost 17 years of development why would they destroy all the new features and, relative, improvements just for the sake of coherence in the timeline. Even the track environment has influences from Pulse and HD. Only Pure saw the classic natural scenery tracks that were very common in the earlier Wipeout games. Pulse on the other hand was much more artificial. Even in tracks like Fort Gale and Platinum Rush, where you had a lot of trees and grass and open tracks you had also many industrial size buildings and artificial stuff. Also, in 2048 the tracks had to be blended with the city scenery because, let's be honest, AG racing was like kart racing or something at the time and there was no budget to build entire tracks only for that purpose...

All in all Wipeout 2048 is just making use of today's processing power and yesterday's corrections to be what it couldn't be in 1995...

[Clair_Lane-003]

I got to admit that the graphic designs were one of the reasons I got into Wipeout cause I'm also a graphic designer but by the time I knew The Designers Republic was out of business I was looking forward to a new and different look with Wipeout 2048 cause one: tDR was gone and two: cause the game time is set back close to our modern look same goes for the music. I just kept an open mind and never expect things. Looking back at the other Wipeouts I do admit that in my opinion that some of the games didn't have a good look especially their game covers but what I learned about graphic designing is that you never stay negative with everything or else you'll always do. Wipeout 2048 is to me good looking mostly focused on their team logos when it came to the graphic designs and the tracks were a great idea to put in the city streets. I will mostly miss their old look

[Dogg Thang]

Well I agree for the most part. For me, WO3 was the pinnacle of design and had such a strong sense of its own feel that carried across every element and every track, and yet without making each track feel the same. Graphically, it is a thing of beauty. That said, I was impressed with what Studio Liverpool delivered with Pure in that they did it themselves, no tDR. In that, they created some lovely tracks, each one different and, as XPand said, there was a sense of nature that was reminiscent of the original. Even the graphics, signs etc were pretty cool and outshined Fusion of course. Pulse was different but, even then, I appreciated what they were doing. What Pulse had was more of a single design sense across all the tracks. Sure, design-wise, I don't think it holds up with WO3 in terms of graphic design but the games can't all look like WO3. They should each have their own identity and that in itself will result in ones we like more than others, or dislike more than others.

For me, and it is totally a personal opinion and nothing more, where the design cracks really started to appear (beyond the anomaly that was Fusion) was in the move to HD and the overtexturing that took place at that point. The track floors got messy for one thing. That's just one element but, for me, it is a symptom of losing sight of the overall design sense. The individual modelling and texturing is gorgeous, technically wonderful and admirable but I think it was at the expense of the whole. And it was in the whole package that WO3 excelled. 2048, again, has some fantastic modelling and really impressive objects and effects. But it feels to me that they were loaded into a shotgun, pointed and fired on to the screen. If I was to sum up the design sense there, I'd say - messy.

The pack art is often down to a marketing dept, isn't it? I agree that the current cover design isn't good but both Pure and Pulse had some pretty good box art. To be honest, I usually don't mind what the cover looks like as long as what's inside is good but perhaps it's an indicator of a lack of importance being given to these elements?

So, yes, I agree that WO3 was a peak in WO graphic design. And I would not be a fan of the current design. But that said, I don't think every WO should be WO3 or aim to be. I would like each WO to be different. But I would love to see a very strong sense of design make a return.

[Vorpal-Knife]

The Thing is, LS can Never make Everyone happy, Why?
Simply because when somebody changes something, The Previous fans may not like the change, thus feeling left out, however new fans have joined and like the new changes. So Then the Designers have a battle between going to the old or to the new, so the product gets designed again, and neither does the original fans like or or, the secondary fans, but another whole new set of fans catch on to the product, and it escalates from there.

I personally LOVE the craft design in 2048. it sums up Futuristic Racing league for me. However I totally see when you guys are coming from, the game seriously lacks character, or has lost the character it once had.

If I was to compare it, I would say it closely represents the NFS series. Since there were SOO many iterations of the game, The game felt tedious, yet anything new, and the game just felt broken.
I was originally a Huge fan of NFS , Pre-ordering the games years in advance :D - now I won't even buy Hot Pursuit for £4.50 in a bargain bin.

Another problem - Wipeout isn't AAA any more. LS isn't spending as much as they should, simply since there not getting as many buyers as there should, simply because the new gamers didn't experiences the sheer thrill back in the 90's- before wipeout we had.... Pong and Pac Man.

Also, I don't understand what you wanted from HD , if you don't want High res, high detailed textures? Maybe you just meant the High Detailed texture were just Poorly Designed? But what do you call good designed textures?

I'm only 17 (have still played my far share of the games) and I'm doing an A-Level Course in Art, as I'm mainly a Graphics Designer(Apprentice), and I'm entering my Fatal Velocity Project as an exam piece.
I don't get what you mean by poor Graphics designs? How would you design, say Feisar Craft, that reflects the series and adds character?
my Logo design fairly reflects NFS as well (Check out my Thread : http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8668-My-Very-Own-WipEout-Game-Project-D)
How would I add character to this?

P.S your English is better then mine, and I'm English!

[aries]

I was impressed with what Studio Liverpool delivered with Pure in that they did it themselves, no tDR.
I agree, Pure is still a good designed episode, but I honestly think the decline started with it (Fusion is so poorly designed I don't even consider it as a "true" episode, like the N64 v.) – or, at least, it started the "current" decline.
With Pure it seems they tried to be like TDR, and they accomplished a pretty good job, but you can see it's almost an effort to emulate them, to be as design-rich as possible, with a user-friendly tone (choose your menu skin, f.e.) that a studio "proud" like TDR would not have granted.
And I don't think it's too far from HD, the hand is the same, look at Vineta K, it's the same "fill with shiny objects", just with less hw power. Pulse has just left the field of modernity, trying to be modern by adopting futuristic clichés, rather than through the modernity of its futuristic design.

I wasn't considering only w3, but 1 and 2097 too. Though less refined in terms of graphic design, even the first two episodes have a more "dry" approach which over time has been lost. I understand the concept of "near future", but the same thing was accomplished in those two titles (the first, post-industrial and natural, material, and the darker, "serious" sequel) in a more measured way than 2048.

I really think there's a lack of a strong creative direction. Now each department is separate, who does the 3D wanna to do the best, who makes the shaders wants to make them look better and recognizable (so he exceeds), and graphic design is used to "beautify" the general package in a rather common way.




For me, and it is totally a personal opinion and nothing more, where the design cracks really started to appear (beyond the anomaly that was Fusion) was in the move to HD and the overtexturing that took place at that point. The track floors got messy for one thing. That's just one element but, for me, it is a symptom of losing sight of the overall design sense. The individual modelling and texturing is gorgeous, technically wonderful and admirable but I think it was at the expense of the whole. And it was in the whole package that WO3 excelled.
Exactly.


The pack art is often down to a marketing dept, isn't it? I agree that the current cover design isn't good but both Pure and Pulse had some pretty good box art. To be honest, I usually don't mind what the cover looks like as long as what's inside is good but perhaps it's an indicator of a lack of importance being given to these elements?
And did it worked? Which are the wipeout's covers everyone remember and recognize, 2097 and 3 or wipEout fusion-like? I say: leave this direction to usual marketing dept. and your product will fall. On the other hand, even the early episodes had a marketing department, but those choices have been granted.
I know the common opinion is "no matter how the box is, is the content that matter to me," but I think that for a brand like wipeout presentation and content are the same thing, you are selling a world, a dream, and that dream begins with the cover. I have to perceive coherence in the project, if the compromises starts so soon it means they're starting on the wrong foot. This is the difference between doing good games (I said that, wipeout is still funny) and doing memorable games, they're now making good toys following the rules developed by the industry, but wipeout stood out because it broke the rules being different from everything else.



The Thing is, LS can Never make Everyone happy, Why?
I don't ask them to make everyone happy, I ask them to make me happy ;)
Jokes aside, this is true for anything that involves choices. But I dunno if this is the case, if they really made choices. I mean, obviously to do a near-future prequel is a choice, but the way they accomplished it… it seems to me for them it felt obvious, they just did what they did with HD, in the "past". I can't see strong design choices in the method. I said that before, even wipeout 1 had near future tracks, there was rusty surfaces, not-so-advanced tech, nature, dirty factories… but that way wasn't even contemplated, because now their goal is no longer to be pioneers of modernity, but to demonstrate the technical capabilities of the Sony hardware.



Also, I don't understand what you wanted from HD , if you don't want High res, high detailed textures? Maybe you just meant the High Detailed texture were just Poorly Designed? But what do you call good designed textures?
HD only means "with a resolution of 1920x1080". What you show through those pixels is totally up to you. You want shaders and light effects? You want just huge, squared pixels? You can do that.
What I wanted from the wipeout HD is more control on the technical possibilities in order to entrust the design team to improve the look of the game, and not rely on them for the whole aesthetic of the game, making the rest a slave to them. I'll give you an example: watch some HD screen, everything is defined by the weather situation in a "mathematical" way. Every color, every shade, and this leads to a certain homogeneity of the tracks. If you compare it with Pure you can see this is the main difference, along with the shaders. Now, I obviously understand that in 2012 you can't ignore lighting effects, but I wish it had been more custom, with the option to manually define the color tones track by track, in order to give them a specific tone.
Similarly, any other technical introduction has enslaved the team to it: you can use shaders? everything will be covered with sweaty shaders. You can put millions of objects on the scenery due to the hardware capabilities? We'll have millions of objects on the scenery. And so on.




I'm only 17 (have still played my far share of the games) and I'm doing an A-Level Course in Art, as I'm mainly a Graphics Designer(Apprentice), and I'm entering my Fatal Velocity Project as an exam piece.
I don't get what you mean by poor Graphics designs? How would you design, say Feisar Craft, that reflects the series and adds character?
It looks like a shortcut, but you can find the best craft design in wip3out. What SL should do is understand the choices that led to these designs (I refuse to believe the people are the same: i couldn't believe it even with official confirm), and try to develop new forms being faithful to those same principles. Ships with simple lines, squared, practically without curves, where the raw power can be used to define some minor details (joints, motors, tubes in the part below) but not excessively complicating the line, which must be aerodynamic and streamlined.

http://www.wip3out.com/italian/teams/fei.gif

They should be more like the stealth jets ( http://www.silentthundermodels.com/images/air_command/F-117_stealth_usaf_SU19002.gif ) than the quantum redshift's americana airships ( http://i.testfreaks.it/images/products/600x400/197/quantum-redshift-xbox.830661.jpg ).




Having said all this ... I came on purpose in the "temple of wipeout" to confront ideas with those who care about the series as I do, and now I realize that this need I have and these (huge) problems I see are important almost exclusively for me. The way I described should be a way to enhance the brand, but if nobody sees problems as it is currently it is perhaps easier for me to give in and let the series continue as his current audience wants, forgetting of its glorious past.


Thanks for reading this wall of text ;)
Gabriele




P.S.

my Logo design fairly reflects NFS as well (Check out my Thread : http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8668-My-Very-Own-WipEout-Game-Project-D)
How would I add character to this?
Mhh… i can't see any logo O_o

[Vorpal-Knife]

Yes, Playing WE3 I can clearly see design differences, and I understand what you mean by the "Just because you can have a million buildings, doesn't mean you have a million buildings." , for the sake of graphics design.
Your Just one person though - the team at LS isn't going to listen to you, And Frankly, yes the Redshift design is awful, but I find it hard to relate any Wipeout HD crafts to the design. the Overall 3D design is still the same?

Wipeout 3 Feisar :
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120220031330/wipeout/images/3/3d/FEISAR_F7200.gif

Wipoeut HD Feiasr :
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120220031820/wipeout/images/0/0a/FEISAR_FX350.jpg


I really have no problem wipe the craft design. It's mainly the enviroment :

Sampa Run (3):
http://hdgameplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/0284.jpg

Vinetta K (HD)
http://assets.ign.com/thumbs/2008/09/12/wipeouthd_091208_missiles_away_on_Vineta_k-38.jpg


And I still doesn't care, HD is still a beautiful looking game!

EDIT : In fact, There still very much the same. Massive Billboards, Mono tones track designs, the AG-Racers are still pratically the same from WO3 , and some Graphics are better, ie, Assengi - I love the design of the craft :
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120223233841/wipeout/images/0/0e/Assegai_FX350.jpg

[havoc33]

Hello everyone!

I'm Chris from Norway, and I've been a huge Wipeout fan ever since it's original release back in 95. It's crazy, but I still remember the days leading up to getting my first Playstation. I had seen pictures of Wipeout in a British game mag, thought it looked cool and I knew that it was the launch title to get for me. And boy, oh boy, was I ever impressed. WipEout literally changed my life. I went from being your average 14 year old, not quite sure of my identity, and then this game came along. It felt like something completely different than I had ever experienced before; the graphics, the speed, the design and the uber coolness of it all. Me and my mates literally couldn't stop playing it for months.

And what was this music playing in the background? These bands.. Orbital, Chemical Brothers.. I had never heard of them before. You gotta understand, growing up as a kid in a small village in Norway at that time and age - a few years before the internet took off - electronic music was just not something I had ever listened to, a non-topic. WipEout changed it all, and I never looked back. The following summer I bought my first techno cd, Orbital with their masterpiece In Sides. A few years later I went to my first raves, and in 2000 I was on my first trip to Ibiza. And today I live in Amsterdam, enjoying this wonderful city and it's vibrant club scene, even doing a bit of Dj'ing of my own. None of it would have ever happened if it weren't for the fact that I one chilly september evening of 1995, I fired up WipEout on my parents 28 inch TV.

To the topic at hand, I very much agree with the original poster that the coolness of WipEout has faded somewhat. I totally lost interest with WipEout after the PS2 version, which I thought was a major, major letdown. And since I never bother with handheld gaming, I didn't come aboard again until Wipeout HD, and that was only after I got it for free as a make up from Sony after their hacking issues. This is saying something about the Wipeout brand nowadays, it's nice to have, but not must have. And that partly is because it does not feel as fresh and distinct anymore, which is a real pity. Like the original poster said, Wipeout needs to keep a sharper focus on the graphical design roots in order to not only distance themselves from racers such as F-Zero, but more importantly, to grab the imagination of the general public. The orginal trilogy's focus on design was so thorough and exquisite that it felt like nothing else on the videogame market. Those games smade me venture into electronic music, and I even ended up taking a two year study of graphic design - that's how strong it influenced me.

With recent editions the graphical design has been toned down, and the focus is not there anymore. Greatly pointed out earlier in this thread, who can remember how the covers of the recent Wipeout games look anymore? I remember clearly to this day how 1,2 and 3 looked, but not any after that, and that is not a coincidence. The same goes for the way the tracks are designed. Gone are all the landmarks, instead we have all sorts of objects and textures everywhere, which makes it all too busy. Something is very wrong when I have almost finished the HD campaign, but I can barely remember how any of the tracks look! Only Chenghou Project stands out in my mind, for the rest they are very bland and "nice", which is not the way Wipeout should be. The orginal games had a art direction which was very much cyber punk, a sort of dark, but realistic vision of the near future with heavy Asian/Manga influence all around. I find the current directon to be too "cute" and commercialized, it lacks the rawness of the original trilogy.

That being said, I will say that I think that Wipeout HD/Fury are good games. The Wipeout franchise just has an overall polish that no other racing series can compete with. The Zone mode is absolutely awesome, and embodies everything Wipeout stands for IMO, and gives you that sort of visual/aural exhilaration only Wipout can give you.

[G'Kyl]

I too agree with the majority of opinions here. Dogg Thang summarized it perfectly:

The individual modelling and texturing is gorgeous, technically wonderful and admirable but I think it was at the expense of the whole.

Vorpal-Knife is right, WipEout might not be a Triple-A production any more. But you know what, it shouldn't matter. Design has never been a matter of technical prowess, not at its core anyway. I have no idea why 2048 took a turn for a more common, less distinct visualization and I don't like to speculate. I do think however, WipEout doesn't need to look Triple-A in terms of technology. It might be worth to focus resources on more elementary things like design, focus on leaving a mark instead of swimming with the rest of the fish.

Also, I second havoc33's sentiment regarding Zone: The Pure Zone tracks (as well as their representation in Fury) are one hell of a design statement, 2048 Zone being close second. As a matter of fact, they might be the most distinct environments in any racing game to date, and part of that is because they use very few and simple elements - yet to extraordinary effect. Which incidentally is the core argument of most opinions in this thread.

[augur]

I've played Wipeout since the very beginning, and I'll say, I think everything after Fusion was a mistake. Not really because of the visuals, tho I think those are less artistically inspired than the original. Rather, I think the controls of the stuff before Fusion, and even the controls of Fusion (or at the least, the *cameras* in them) were vastly superior. As someone who's spent hours and hours in both Fusion and pre-Fusion, I can tell you that the adjustment to HD takes a lot of time. Too much time, to be honest. But I guess HD was intended for people weened on Pure and Pulse..

[Oryx Crake]

I hate to ask this question because I too loved and played the first 3 wipeouts from release date til the day my ps1 died, but does anyone really think that a new wipeout with the minimalistic type of graphics of wo3 would have been made today? it would at best have been a mini-game for download on the psn network. While I agree that super glossy graphics seem to sometimes be the main focus of game design these days, to the detriment of story, gameplay, innovation etc. I also think it's true that if you don't have competitive graphics the company wont release your game, and to be honest the real world never did and never will look like wo3. Realistically speaking design-wise wo2048 is probably the closest thing to any kind of reality the franchise has come yet, minus the skillcuts I have a hard time seeing any racing league implement such things to be honest, same with the weapons, but I digress.

I don't want to be a party pooper or anything but the mood of the times will set some rules for what is and what isn't a successful game. for better or for worse when it comes to the wipeout franchise the people on this forum are essentially the intellectual elite, that is to say that we are the ones who've owned every game in the series the ones who've cared about the art and the music choices beyond the game just being a cool way to pass some time. We are not the preferred audience of sony, and sony is a populist company that will do what it can to increase profits. So if a franchise is no longer profitable,or if the company doesn't think it will be, it will be cancelled, great design or no.

Also I'd wager that if you asked the average gamer... well not off the street as they are mostly in doors playing games... but if you asked the average gamer his opinion on which of the designs was better looking, wo3 or wohd I'd wager he'd say wohd. It's the aesthetics of the time, there isn't much we or SL can do about that.

[jetsetsonic]

It seems to me that when the developers had to deal with more restrictive technological limitations every detail was carefully considered and the overall project more carefully designed. Now everything can be done, and so everything is granted.

Time and time again I overhear somebody talking about how games today are worse compared to those of ten or even twenty years ago. They just lack that special "something," but nobody can ever quite put their finger on what exactly that is. Now, it's possible that a great deal of the reason people feel that way is because of nostalgia. But I believe that what you said here, Gabrielle, explains it perfectly.

Back in the 80s and 90s, developers were obviously limited in the ways they could express their artistic vision. Lack of processing power meant that they had to find other ways of conveying their ideas besides increasing the number of sprites or polygons on screen. This led developers like Psygnosis to place more emphasis on graphic and interface design and fleshing out the universe of the Wipeout franchise, so that the end result would be a product that was richer than gameplay alone. This is exactly the reason why I feel the 32-bit generation was the last era of true creativity, where artists had to find new and innovative ways to work with what they had.

As you say, today it's a completely different story. The practical approach is that if consoles can render every detail necessary for a completely realistic environment, why bother investing time and money on emphasizing other aspects that aren't necessary to gameplay and realism? Obviously there are games produced today that don't reflect this model, but they are shrinking in number. Every time I see a producer license Unreal Engine for *insert first person shooter here,* I cringe.

Now, I don't believe Studio Liverpool is that bad off in this regard. Yes, the environments themselves are a bit too textured, and I feel they should definitely scale back and simplify as they did in Wipeout 3. I agree with what many of you have said about Wipeout 3 being the peak of the series, visually speaking. However, I also believe that those first three games were emblematic of what was going on in the 90s, especially on the PlayStation. As Onyx said, those were the aesthetic ideals of the time. Ridge Racer Type 4, another PlayStation game that released the same year as Wipeout 3, has a very similar visual style, which is most of the reason why it is still one of my favorite games to this day. And you still have to cut Studio Liverpool some slack, as the artwork they continue to do for the teams and sponsors is still very, very good. It's just the actual 3D modeling that could use some work in my opinion.

[Avenger2197]

So... haven't been here in while, thought I'd give my .02 cents.

I completely agree that more recent Wipeouts have had little to almost no "WOW" effect as far as graphic design goes( with the exception in my mind being Pure and HD to an extent). I think that that unfortunately a lot of grittiness from the original series, hasn't quite been felt with the same fondness in more current iterations of the game. In 1, 2097, and 3 there was a certain industrial meets cyberspace feel from tDR's work that bled into every aspect of the games themselves. Almost like flipping the bird at the gaming industry at the time. In the current titles there seems a desire to blend in yet attempt to bring some of that feeling back. Pure did an excellent job with the artwork that you would win by completing races. In fact many of those images were so good, I didn't really understand why their "feel" never made it into the finished product. HD had a similar effect with the sponsor logos, some of those were right out of the tDR book almost. I give props to SL for continuing this amazing series, even 2048 has some good design in it, but it does NOT have the overall style bleeding through every aspect of the game itself.

Pure, Pulse and HD suffered from the " let's fill tracks with billboards and neon and glass surfaces, because the hardware can support it" mentality. Which is not to say they were bad games by any measure. Quite the opposite, as each had a distinct "feel" about them that differentiated each from the other. When HD came out it was a common thing to read about here that the tracks were too busy, and they are. Too many textures that fill in too little space. In WO1 the tracks were bland due to hw, sure, but their feel at rapier eclipses any of the HD tracks at phantom.

Pure had the least of the bright gaudiness of the later titles, and 2048 does a good job with the gritty effect in it's tracks, but Pulse and HD kind of overdo the neon to be considered gritty in any way.

There is a concept art in Pure of a man staring at a couple of craft careening down a track in between what looks like a semi forgotten business district re-purposed for the fx-300, with rain coming down on the track. That one image I think could be the start of an awesome redirection of vision for SL, if they sat down and studied the game they could make from that image. I used to have that image, but now is on a lost memory card. For me, Wipeout could be that again, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

[UnleashSonic]

I have read quite a few of the posts here, and I agree mostly. I think all the WipEout games have had fantastic visual design, bar Fusion, and The Designers Republic aren't some god-like figures that produce art and aesthetic design better then a mere mortal. No, they were just a group of ordinary designers. I feel that the in-house design studio at SL is fantastic and should be commended for their amazing work and commitment to the franchise. They have tried to keep the DR feel and have adapted and evolved to feed back from this very site as fans requested. Also remember; they can't just copy and paste the design scheme from previous WipEout's. Imagine if they did that, people would complain there was no change. So what ever they do, they are ****ed, sorry for the french, but honestly you can't please everyone.

[wildmorgan]

Somebody has already hit the nail on the head by saying any future Wipeout game will never be as special to the older fans as the originals were, purely down to nostalgia. I still remember running home from school to fire up 2097 on the PS1 just to have a blast around Sagarmatha with Future Sound of London's "Landmass" (being my favourite tune in the game) blasting out in the background - I just thought it was awesome and the graphics (at the time) were gorgeous. It was the only game on my PS1 that managed to pull me away from my Sega Saturn (the Saturn version was ok, but nothing compared to the PS1 version) until Wipeout 3 came along.

The problem is that the world was a very different place in the mid 90's. Not just generally, but for me personally; I was a schoolboy just getting into music, starting to show interest in girls and on the cusp of the transition into becoming a young man. 3D gaming was in its infancy and stunning everyone. Wipeout had made gaming cool. Psygnosis were at the cutting edge. All these things I remember and they are all somehow centered around Wipeout and that golden age of gaming. The sad thing is no matter how hard we try, or even Studio Liverpool try, we'll never recapture that feeling we got when we first fired any one of the original trilogy up. We are all different people now to what we were back then, the world is a different place and there are completely different things going on in our lives.

The fact remains, however, that there is something decidely different about how Wipeout games play now and how they did back then. And I agree about the comments on the design work - it just doesn't feel like "Wipeout" anymore.

This may sound like overkill to some of you, but I think Studio Liverpool should make a Wipeout game which includes all of the tracks from EVERY game (yes even Fusion and Wipeout 64), all the tunes from EVERY game, restyle it more akin to the original trilogy and rewrite the physics, again, more akin to the original trilogy.

You could then progress through each year starting with 2048, then 2052 going right up to 2207. They could even introduce a story element, like the pilot who competes in 2097 could be the son of the pilot who competed in 2052, but then I fear this could also take something away the distant and bleak mysteriousness of the first three games.

It will never happen of course, but it's nice to imagine!

[Medusa]

I have read quite a few of the posts here, and I agree mostly. I think all the WipEout games have had fantastic visual design, bar Fusion, and The Designers Republic aren't some god-like figures that produce art and aesthetic design better then a mere mortal. No, they were just a group of ordinary designers. ...

Uhh, are you still alive or have the WipEout gods struck you down for that???

;)

Anyway, wipeout could be minimalistic in design and still succeed if it had the difficulty level and compulsive replay vectors converge at the same points as the old ones did. Look at games like Journey, Flower, Flow (thatGamecompany trinity). Cannot get more minimalistic than that. And guess what? Those games are pretty darn near perfect, right? If the point is only to sell games and not care about support after it is made, than do it this way so there is something to replay and enjoy instead of be annoyed with.
But, then every fan who loves the intricacies of the new games would be very sad. No one will be happy with one extreme or the other, and no one will be happy with compromise. So, forget that and make sure you keep whichever game is your favourite, and pray the matching console does not die on you.


The end. Fin.

[Sausehuhn]

There is a concept art in Pure of a man staring at a couple of craft […]. That one image I think could be the start of an awesome redirection of vision for SL […].

You probably mean this image (http://cybershot.cy.funpic.de/kram/sonstige_bilder/WipEoutZone/stuff/manor_top4.jpg). This (http://cybershot.cy.funpic.de/kram/sonstige_bilder/WipEoutZone/stuff/citta_nuovat1.jpg), this (http://cybershot.cy.funpic.de/kram/sonstige_bilder/WipEoutZone/stuff/manor_topt4.jpg) and this (http://cybershot.cy.funpic.de/kram/sonstige_bilder/WipEoutZone/stuff/modesto_heights3.jpg) image do have a similar mood to it, if you ask me.

I cannot quite figure out what makes these pictures so fascinating, but they really transport the feel I would love to see in a future WipEout game. Maybe it’s the sense of space, as they feature huge buildings making you feel so small in a world so advanced. And the foggy distance, making you feel a bit lost. It’s a combination of depression and awesomeness.

[Medusa]

I'm mildly creeped out by your post Sausehuhn. Because all of those 4 pics I carefully selected to be in my wipeout print, mounted proudly on my wall...
Combination of depression and awesomeness, seconded. They have a sort of nighttime Gare d'Europa/w3o feel to them IMO, gritty but sleek. That's what made my favourite wipeout atmospheres favourites. Not so sleek it seemed fake, but sleek with a hint of grime, like real life tends to be.
Just like in music, it's not so much the separate notes, but the space between them. It would be nice to see that direction taken in another wipeout. :)

[dreadofmondays]

I have only ever played HD, but the first thing that struck out at me when I switched it on was the graphics. I actually really like the bustling motif thing they have going on. Moreso I love the attention to detail in all the ships such as the airbrakes firing.

After reading through the thread I noticed people prefer X Game over Y Game due to Z Reason. Well, it's worth mentioning that when a new game comes out, it doesn't delete the old one. You can still play old ones. So it follows, why worry about HD not being styled like WO3 when you can just go ahead and play WO3 itself? Each game is different because they want to bring something new to the series. If all the games where the same, what's the point?

[Terramax]

Somebody has already hit the nail on the head by saying any future Wipeout game will never be as special to the older fans as the originals were, purely down to nostalgia....we'll never recapture that feeling we got when we first fired any one of the original trilogy up. We are all different people now to what we were back then, the world is a different place and there are completely different things going on in our lives.

I'm not sure I completely agree on this. There are some games out there that can recapture the spirit of their older installments. Recently, I bought Ridge Racer 3DS and I can wholeheartedly say it's the best Ridge Racer I've played since Type 4 (and I've played, well, pretty much every console RR). It genuinely looks, feels, plays and sounds like the best of the old and new RRs.

Then there's Resident Evil 4 which recaptured the audience and reinvented the genre. It gave a wow in a completely different sense to the originals. It was bold, new and fresh with ideas.

So there is still hope. That being said, if Studio Liverpool really want to rock the world of racing, they'd make flippin' Rollcage 3! >: (


This may sound like overkill to some of you, but I think Studio Liverpool should make a Wipeout game which includes all of the tracks from EVERY game (yes even Fusion and Wipeout 64), all the tunes from EVERY game, restyle it more akin to the original trilogy and rewrite the physics, again, more akin to the original trilogy.

I'm not sure that would work because the tracks differ so much between the old and new games. The track design in older titles are just more... topsy turvy.

I wouldn't mind all the tracks from the PSX games, along with maybe 64 also, all remade. Or even just the first Wipeout remade actually. With Namco releasing a Negcon 2 controller to coincide with the release XD

Back on topic, I believe the franchise's less than steller performance is also due to other aspects, although indeed design is one reason. I completely disagree with this more clinical look in all recent installments. It makes sense though. The Wipeouts on the 32bit era were a reflection of the 90's. The colours, upbeat, yet gritty times of mid 90's England, and the music being somewhat more atmospheric. It just seems to fit in with the British flag, music videos of Republica and Jamiroquai, and films like Human Traffic.

In the naughties, however, there is this fashion and call for a clean, sterile and minimalist society as shown in adverts, tv shows, films, etc, and the Wipeouts of now compliment that style. I don't like it, but I see why they've gone down that road. This is particularly the case with the cold, robotic, impersonal music in installments like Wipeout Pulse.

Weapons don't seem to have the wow factor they used to either. 2097's weapons really felt creative and visually satisfying, but somehow, whilst the weapons are identical in future releases, they just don't have that exciting, thinking out of the box vibe. They need to think of making some weapons that really affect the gameplay in more than just slowing people down or blowing you up. They've already mentioned the weapons in Mario Kart were an inspiration, why not be inspired them again?
Then there's the fact that there's too much emphasis on weapons. You're playing a fast paced racer, but are having your fun moments stopped by being shot and being brought to a complete stop. I know all Wipeouts have this to an extent, but the balance feels all wrong now.

Finally there's the track design. I'm sorry, but tracks of the later series just aren't as memorable or immediately distinguished as the older titles. Every track in the first Wipeout is unique in theme. And yet many tracks in later ones just feel like slight alternatives to each other. There's also less amounts of jumps, hills, swerves, alternate routes, etc, and it's just not all that exciting. The width of the tracks are too thin, and I find many of the backgrounds unremarkable and impersonal.

I know this all sounds negative, but I don't think Wipeout is destined to fall into obscurity forever. There is a chance interest can increase once again, but it's going to mean making a more dynamic experience.

[Razgriz375]

An interesting post from the OP to say the least. I can see where they're coming from, WipEout has changed, it's not the same machine it used to be. But everything changes right? For me, WipEout, 2097 and 3 are the true WipEout series, Fusion I haven't played and probably never will, I simply steered clear of it. Everything after Fusion seemed to change, WipEout was essentially, rebooted design wise and then Pure came along. Pure for me is a tribute to the old WipEout, it's design, looks and feel resembled the past and brought a little nostalgia. I would rank it above 2048 and pulse in terms of playability to, It was so nice to play and look at. But like I said, everything changes, are we just afraid or refusing to accept that?

[wildmorgan]

For me, WipEout, 2097 and 3 are the true WipEout series...

Everybody says this, but let us not forget Wipeout numero uno. Without it, there would be no 2097 or Wip3out. Sure those games were slicker, but the first game is still really fun to play and in my eyes, better than anything post Wipe3out, although that said I own (and have enjoyed) every single Wipeout game. Yes, even Fusion (even if it is the worst of the lot, it's still a good game).

The thing I dislike most about the later games (aside from the aesthetics) is how the craft seem "stuck" to the track, almost as if there is some trade-off between the anti-grav system which is fighting to lift against powerful magnets which are pulling the craft down and locking it in place. The later games don't have the free floating anti-grav feel of the first three games. And no nose control, which is also sorely missed. What the hell is up with that?