massive british presence and .. a girl??!

[zargz]

lookin around it struck me how much wo talent there is in the uk!
and then @ 10th place felicity!!! a girl/woman!! wow!

this is wo3se / SR / best lap. c 4 u self! 8)

1 Sascha Brauer ........ Germany Icaras 0:27:96
2 pavel Ramirez ......... Sweden Icaras 0:28:04
3 Jeroen Meuleman ..... Belgium Icaras 0:29:76
4 gavin morris ............. United Kingdom Assegai 0:29:96
5 Dom Leach ............... United Kingdom AG-Systems 0:31:00
6 mark hancock ........... United Kingdom Pirhana 0:31:32
7 Paul Joyce ................ United Kingdom Auricom Ind. 0:31:88
8 Anthony Long ........... United Kingdom Pirhana 0:32:32
9 stubble AG-systems . United Kingdom Qirex[RD] 0:33:08
10 Felicity Green .......... United Kingdom Pirhana 0:33:36

[infoxicated]

LOL! :lol:

Felicity (or Fliss as we call her) is my girlfriend - it's no surprise she's so talented! ;)

[zargz]

oic! y dont u get her 2 submit 2the other trax as well? 8)

[Lance]

.
which track and class are those records for?

has anyone seen Sascha Brauer post new times in the past year?
.

[xEik]

I assume Sampa Run. ;)
zargz didn't state the class though. But that should be easy to check.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[zargz]

oops! I missed that :oops:
SR = single race. the track is Stanza Inter :)

lance: I didnt see him post 4a lOng long time

[xEik]

:P

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Vasudeva]

Once again... I hope more people start posting times on the classic tracks of SE... there really isn't much of a competition going there ;).

As for the rest, I hope to improve some of my times...

V.

[infoxicated]

zargz: Fliss has spent this afternoon practicing, and is back at it just now while I'm holed up in the computer room. :-?

Great suggestion - soon it wont be grim enough being behind Al & J on the tables - once we have chicks in the top five it'll just be plain humiliating to our male pilot egos! :D :P

[Lance]

.
on the NTSC tables, there's a pilot named Tegan Rusiecki. ''Tegan'' is almost invariably [ive nEver seen it applied to a male] a girl's name. [my apologies if Tegan is a guy :) ] Tegan occasionally forgets to change the teamname while entering times in the tables, but if those times are genuine and if my surmise is correct, a lot of male pilots are being outdone by a female

there is no physical reason why females would not be just as fast at racing games as males; there are just fewer of them interested in that type of game.
and in the fiction of Wipeout, Arial Tetsuo and Miyima Tsarong are amongst the best
.

[xEik]

there is no physical reason why females would not be just as fast at racing games as males
I can't agree. Males and females are known to use different ways to achieve similar conclussions. It's a fact that our brains work differently.
So, it is impossible to say a priori if females are faster, equal or slower than males but there could be a difference indeed. And there could be none, of course, but their racing style is probably different.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[infoxicated]

The reason for the hot chix is that a couple of the artists quite like drawing hot chix.

In particular Darren Douglas... a bit of a hot chick fan, to be honest - among his creations are Myima Tsarong, Natasha Belmondo and Pascale Rouser :)

[xEik]

Another reason is sales! :D
How many people do you think would buy next installment of Dead or Alive (whatever it is 4, 5...) if there weren't but ugly chicks? ;)

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

ed? in any case, here is yet another speech ;)
.
xeik? different ways? it may be that, on average, females solve problems with either a different goal in mind or with a different emphasis on the proportional importance of multiple goals, but i said nothing about thinking patterns in my previous post. in terms of basic electrochemistry of the nervous system, which is what we're using to play this game, there is no significant difference in their physical abilities. that there are so few females who play this type of game is an expression of the difference in interests of typical females relative to those of typical males. but everybody is not typical.
wipeout is a game where we all play by the same rules, using the same physics and features of the game, and using the same type of personal nervous system. tactics and strategy, though based on personal quirks and experience, must still deal with the game design, so as long as the goal is to do your best, you pretty much have to do the same things in terms of turning technique, hyperthrust use, attitude control, etc. there are a limited number of ways to solve the problem of obtaining lowest lap and race times.
as for other physical characteristics: physical strength, for example, doesn't come into it at all. take me for example, compared to nearly all of the other male pilots here, i must be one of the lightest and weakest at a very skinny unmuscular 120 pounds/54.54 kilos, and in addition i'm rather androgynous, aNd i'm 60 years old. many girls could kick my a**. yet my times are reasonably good. surely you're not saying that physical characteristics have a highly direct and proportional effect on the performance results in this game? in my opinion, competitive individuals of either gender, as long as they are reasonably healthy and do not have damaged nervous systems, have a very good chance of doing well in racing games or combat games. non-virtual racing and fighting is another matter, of course.

-----------

infox: pascale ''rouser''
lol. he did that on purpose, didn't he?
.
.

[xEik]

i said nothing about thinking patterns in my previous post.No, you didn't but I'm sure you use them to play a game. Even in those that seem to involve more reflexes than thought.


in terms of basic electrochemistry of the nervous system, which is what we're using to play this game, there is no significant difference in their physical abilities.I suppose that chemically speaking there aren't many differences but the system as a whole is different in structure and response to certain stimuli.


wipeout is a game where we all play by the same rules, using the same physics and features of the game, and using the same type of personal nervous system.I disagree again with the last part of your statement. I don't think male and female nervous systems work in the same way.


tactics and strategy, though based on personal quirks and experience, must still deal with the game design, so as long as the goal is to do your best, you pretty much have to do the same things in terms of turning technique, hyperthrust use, attitude control, etc. there are a limited number of ways to solve the problem of obtaining lowest lap and race times.I don't see it as a problem that can be solved. You race and use the best tactics you can cope with. I think (and I may be wrong) that the tactics that males will use can differ of those used by females. Which ones are the best? I don't know.


as for other physical characteristics: physical strength, for example, doesn't come into it at all.I agree. The only physical effect of wipeout is eyestrain and sore thumbs. These affect equally males and females.


surely you're not saying that physical characteristics have a highly direct and proportional effect on the performance results in this game?No, of course. If we exclude the physical structure of our neural networks, obviously.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[AmishRobot]

Lance: Check out this (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993628) [www.newscientist.com] article. It discusses women's (sweeping generalities, here) disadvantages compared to men in navigating three-dimensional computer-generated environments. Essentially, it states that the well known differences between genders in identifying spatial relationships applies to the virtual world as well as the physical.

There is no physical reason why women wouldn't be just as fast as males, but there are mental ones. Women (again, with the sweeping generalities... assume this as a given) mentally map out their environments in a more landmark-oriented fashion. In the somewhat generic (and in the case of Wipeout 3, gray) environments, it is more difficult to anticipate upcoming turns this way. And by "landmark", I don't necessarily mean the Nordstrom's on the corner. :P Along with identifiable structures, it also means they base their surroundings in relation to where they've just been. The less smooth movement in a virtual environment is, the more difficult that is to do. Wipeout is quite smooth, but hardly near the levels needed to maintain true persistance of vision.

Of course, I think this has very little to do with why there aren't many females with times posted on the tables here. I agree with you that it probably has more to do with women not being nearly as interested in going real fast and blowing stuff up.

[FoxZero]

this definitely has a lot more to do with how the games are marketed and developed than the abilities of females. the number of males on console game development teams far outnumber that of females and while this may not seem to make a difference, the subconscious and conscious thinking involved in the game's design will ultimately make the game appeal mostly to men. i mean you cant identify with experience of what women will want to play if youre not a woman, right?

same goes for marketing department, especially since year after year the primary consumer of these games are males. this has fluctuated recently however, due to the ps2s deployment as a home entertainment device and some other factors.

of course this also appies to hardware design, i mean if women tend to have smaller hands than men, where does that leave the xbox's controller?

also, even if thinking is based on landmarks, that does not mean that they can not adapt their landmark system to fit these other tasks. other than being alienated by design, the only other disadvantage girls would have with video games would be their reflexes not being quick enough due to not playing enough games. i think xeik's infamous signature has something to say about that.

in any case, i know from experience girls can and will be as good as games (or fast in wipeout) as quickly as boys, and they are also interested in blowing things up. my girlfriend beats me senseless in tetris and is crazy in gta3, my sister is ruthless in mortal kombat, road rash, and tony hawk, and my neighbor gives quite the race in gran turismo and i consider myself a very experienced gamer. no shame tho, they rox.

face it you guys, girls will win irregardless :P

some interesting tidbits.. i had my cousin over when i was at my grandma's house a while back, we were playing playstation 2 because her daughter enjoys video games. unfortunately the only games i had were gta3, wipeout 3 and fusion! luckily her preference was racing games :) so i let her play fusion first because i thought the graphics might wow her but she couldnt complete a lap in that game cuz the controls were so sensitive. then she played wipeout 3 on vector and got first place first time through with the pirhana. 6 or 7 and already on the way to becoming #1 on wipeoutzone :D

[Lance]

.
well, it looks like we've found a topic of some interest and also difference of opinion. :)

the article cited by James does not make it clear as to the cause of the differences noted. whether it is due to differences in the physical structure of the nerve net or due to the development of different modes of reaction due to the acculturation created by our experiences. based on what it says, and on my own experience of the way my 'mind' works relative to that of males and females i've known, i'd have to say that i operate with a mix of classic male and classic female modes. i do find 'jump cuts' in motion through 3D space to be more disorienting to me than they would be to most guys. on the other hand, i find i'm good at static or slow-moving spatial visualisation, which would often be found in the practice of architecture and other mechanical design, which is traditionally dominated by males. but again, it may be only due to acculturation; i was never athletic as a kid, which would have helped me to deal with sudden changes in 3D orientation, but i did a lot of visual imagining [such as designing vehicles, engines, etc, watching them in 3D slo-motion in my mind, to see if the mechanical bits interacted with each other the way the design was supposed to]. so i'm still thinking that any seeming differences in videogame performance are not due to physical differences even of the nervous system.

oops, forgot. adding this to post:
xeik: would you give an example of preferred wip3out racing tactics that might be different for males and females?
.

[AmishRobot]

Actually, I almost didn't mention the article because it brings up the old "hunter/gatherer" argument as a cause, which is something I've never held much faith in. That's essentially a sociological explanation, which doesn't hold much weight in this day and age. Besides that, I have serious doubts as to the validity of the study. What was the difference in the amount of experience in navigating 3D displays between the two groups? How much time were they given to acclimate to the new environments? I personally believe that when it comes to the traditional male/female differences in behavior and psychology, most people fall somewhere in the middle. After all, I need some explanation for why I sit like a girl. ;)

I should have put a disclaimer on my last post that it wasn't proof, but rather food for thought. I do think it's interesting, and does have some solid arguments (landmark-based orientation in women is fairly well documented).

[Vasudeva]

Hmm, interesting topic. Allow me to add my 2 cents.

While these male-female differences may apply for a good majority, I know that it's certainly not always true. I am not the best pilot in the universe but I reckon I'm certainly not the worst either ;), yet the way I orient myself in the world is more akin to the traditional female than the male way. This doesn't give me awfully bad results, however. According to a few IQ tests, by the way, my spatial insights are just above average. Always be careful with sweeping generalisations. I think that in wipEout, hand-eye coordination plays a much larger role than spatial insights, and in that aspect I'd like to believe than men and women are equal.

The reason why men buy more games than women I can only speculate about. Some have said that it's due to the graphic violence and the traditionally male themes (FPS, RTS, fighting, racing...) but actually I disagree. A lot of games have come out which are not excessively violent or macho (RPG's, platformers, dancing and puzzling games). Secondly, the argument that women are turned away from games because all girls in games are larger-than-life-laracrofteque-supermodels is also nonsense. Most men in games, especially RPG's and fighting games, would certainly appeal to some female fantasies! I don't actually know what causes this difference. I think it's more a matter of habit, personally.

By the way, why's everyone so fond of Myima Tsarong or Pascale Rouser. Anastasia Cherovoski is much, much cuter! :p

Peace,
V.

[xEik]

i think xeik's infamous signature has something to say about that.

Infamous

Of very bad report; having a reputation of the worst kind; held in abhorrence; guilty of something that exposes to infamy; base; notoriously vile; detestable; as, an infamous traitor; an infamous perjurer.

Synonyms

Detestable; odious; scandalous; disgraceful; base; vile; shameful; ignominious.:o

@Lance

These are some different tactics I can't think of. However, I have no way to prove if some of them are more commonly usen by one gender or the other, since I know no female wiper. Keep pitting and hyperthrusting or conserving shield in those tracks where pitting makes you lose time.
Hyperthrust only in straights (safer) or when you get out of a curve as well as in the straights(more performant in my opinion).
Letting the accelerator go in difficult turns or keep your accelerator pushed all the time and manage the turn only with the pad and brakes (Al is known to never let go the accelerator).
When there are curvy jumps, concentrate in steering or concentrate in controlling the pitch.
When you are about to pass a contender and you have some rockets you can be those that always fire (it can make you lose concentration) or those that keep focused on the track and avoiding the opponent.
In some turns it is not obvious if braking is faster or slower. Different players will have different choices.
Miss a boost pad to keep a smoother raceline or slightly change the best trajectory to take advantage of the speed-up.
Now, if there is any correlation between gender and the aforementioned tactics, I do not know.

Another point is that, as some people have stated, while it may change in some years, sociologically caused differences still exist. So, although I don't think that a male and a female educated tha same way would show this kind of differences, I'm quite sure that the average male player is more agressive than the average female player. For those who know female wipers, could you please do some eliminators with them and report back?

Last but not least. Males tend to be more competitive than females. If this is sociologically caused or physiologically, I don't know either. But one thing I can tell you for sure, whenever I've met a highly competitive bastard capable of selling his soul for first position, it was a male. In other words, I've met many people in my life (not many as Lance of course, I'm only 22) but the ones that found true delight in victory and being better than the others can be counted with my fingers, and they happen to be all men.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION ! ;)

[Lance]

.
i suspect that women are just as competitive as men, but usually choose different fields of endeavour to compete in. mm... like having the nicest house, the best furniture, the most stylish clothes, the most expensive scents, the best hair, etc

[for both males and females, it's my opinion that a lot of the really intense competition is related to achieving breeding status, not just food-gathering survival, and is driven by genetically inbuilt 'imperatives' for this behaviour. in other words, it's sex related]

xEik: i see what you're getting at, that there are definitely more or less agressive strategies in racing. i think that preferences in method are learned/conditioned responses that can be due to outside-the-individual-person pressures of society, which of course vary according to the local culture. videogames tend to create a culture of their own because they just don't produce the same consequences for aggressive actions that would result if such aggression were pursued in real life, in the physical world instead of the metaphysical world. i think this gives people the opportunity to be their more 'natural' unconditioned selves. i am certainly much more aggressive in games than i am in real life
.

[FoxZero]

i suspect that women are just as competitive as men, but usually choose different fields of endeavour to compete in

i agree, lance. in addition, not everyone races aggressively, and not everyone is clawing for the top. that doesn't mean they won't win at the same frequency though.. aggression has its down sides too.

btw, i meant famous, cuz everyone seems to know your signature :o

[AmishRobot]

xeik: Have you ever worked in an office full of women? They can definitely be competitive. In fact, they can be downright vindictive and mean. They're just a lot more subtle about it than most men. A woman won't pound her chest and yell, "I'm gonna crush you!", she'll wait until later when she's with someone else, and pass along "something she heard".

Men seem to be competitive as a matter of pride, so they have to let everyone else know. Women... well, I'm not sure as to why they're competitive, but it comes from a black place in their soul. :)