Online campaign

[JABBERJAW]

Aka sho just helped me with the activation of the game today for online. I entered, one other guy was in there, oh, guess what, you have to have 4 people to race, how nice, so I wait, vita goes in standby, kicked out of lobby, awesome. Go back in, no one there, waiting, tap screen to avoid sleep mode, waiting, tap, repeat, repeat, swear, repeat, turn off. Throw in 3 damn bots or something. Also, if two are in the lobby, wait 20 seconds, then start the race with two bots, three people, throw in 1 bot. There is far too much waiting, then throw in the 50 second load as well, add in no separate racing options like hd, and an early death is likely for this game. I know many of you have not played, but PLEASE speak up and contact SL regarding this, otherwise, it will probably not get added

THE FOLLOWING WAS ADDED JANUARY 31 so it can be read at this point of the thread. I have played campaign more at this point.

Ok, finally got to play MULTI PLAYER campaign mode. The tracks are voted on, you have no choice how many players it play against you, 5 started getting rougher, but not horrendous. There did not seem to be much lag on the controls ( bad in hd online with analog especially). You have to do events on a grid, there is pass, elite pass ( harder) and after 3 attempts and failing at passing it lets you move on to the next event.

You have to perform a task in the event, and they vary with everyone at whatever level they are at. Some examples so far are

1) just play
2) don't come in last
3) hit one player with a weapon
4) don't come in last AND hit someone with a weapon

You can see this is going to a variety of place finishes, kills, ect, and will get harder which is fine.

VERDICT: this addition to the wipeout series is fine, BUT IS THE WORST (by far) multiplayer gaming for ANY wipeout game. This game would run fantastically in a one on one match, BUT NOPE, can't do it. To take out the racebox options ( all of them) is indeed the worst thing to EVER happen to a wipeout game. As I'm playing multiplayer (and it runs well), I keep thinking, " wouldn't This be absolutely incredible to just be able to pick a track/tournament, and options, and race someone. Maybe choose from friends, or invite only, or just anyone. Wouldn't that be great?". And then I snap back to reality, and actually get a bit down. I actually have been getting down about this game through the day. It is really that good, but am extremely worried we will NEVER get these options we need to play a legitimate single or multi player race. The wipeout HD CUP would not be possible with this game, not even close. I don't even know how I'm going to choose a race in the tourney that we want, or if we can even play one on one in ad hoc mode, or if you need 4 minimum. That doesnt really matter though as it seems you cannot choose a track/ speed in it anyway.
There is really no going for tt, sr, or zone records of any sort, just on the events.

Studio Liverpool, for the love of all things wipeout, please give us a racebox option in single AND multiplayer, not a neutered version either. Your game is very good, but WE do not want to play quest game. We will play it to unlock stuff, but our long term play is in a racebox setting, choosing our races off the tracks you made, not getting force fed something we don't want to play more than a month. The game will die off quickly without it, and I want another wipeout based on these physics for sure.

If need be here is a way to get the game mode, speed and track selection in
Ship has already been selected for those not in the know, it is done a different way

.........( single and multi player the same way and mode)

1) on the map, there is a SPEED LAP GRID, boxes for each track, speed class

2) when clicking on Altima A+ speed for example

3) It goes to a small menu choice

4) speed lap..single race....time trial....combat.....zone

.....a) if you choose speed lap, go to race (haven't done mp yet, time limit maybe)
.....b) if you choose Single Race, choose lap count, weapon option on/ off would be nice
.....c) if you choose time trial, choose lap count, turbo on/ off
.....d) if you choose combat, choose time limit, points, or kill limit
.....e) if you choose zone, choose zone limit

For Multi Player, a restart race after the finish would be welcome, then it would load way faster, AND you could be racing far more instead of looking at very long loading screens of the events(can get extremely long with the choosing, ect, over 2minutes at best

While records would be nice for the standard lap counts for the speed classes, without
changes to the standard options, It would be good even without the records, and just keep those for the events. This would at least let us play and have more fun with the game, races would start MUCH faster since you could race with two players, and you wouldnt be voting on tracks.

So there are two options for making the game great to play, not just have great gameplay, either a racebox ( preferred), or and expansion of the speed lap grid once clicked on. Hopefully this is read and taken to heart

[Darkdrium777]

Imagine if Pulse online needed four people to play.
No one would have ever played.

I suppose this requirement is for the online campaign objective system to work properly and assign unique objectives to every individual in the race. But unless by some miracle of providence WipEout is and remains insanely popular throughout the lifetime of the platform, this won't end well.

[JABBERJAW]

Sitting in the lobby again, three people! Awesome, I've only waited 5 minutes so far, whoo-hoo!

30 second countdown once people are in, after voted, then the 50 second load. Now I did not think it would be this terrible, oh now someone left, so we have to wait with 3 again. Down to two now. Time is up to 3 minutes waiting.....down to 2 players again.

Seriously guys/ gals, this nonsense has got to stop. Let us just choose a damn race and play. Keep the online campaign in, but give us a race choice option that has nothing to do with this campaign. We, meaning each person on here who cares about wo2048, needs to contact SL through email, Facebook, ect. Do not let them talk you out of this, saying it's " not that bad". It really is.

Ok, now I'm down to 1 player ( me). I guess I'm playing one game tonight over a 30 minute time period.

[Temet]

Al, you know Wipeout is definitely not a game played by Japanese people (even if the few playing are incredibly fast!).
A big part of the players are english or french (just see the convention, it was like a French invasion in Mad's House :g )

I don't worry about that, I know Asa, Leung, Kaori & G-S will already have it day one... and I guess several guys from WOArena will definitely buy it also when reading our discussions on the tchatbox ;)

For online campaign, it's normal you cannot chose the parameters of the races... but I do hope it's possible in another mode. And if unlockable, not hard to unlock then!

[JABBERJAW]

I am pretty sure there is no other option, and I agree the campaign is ok with that ( but still badly set up). The is NO standard mode. I am going to verify today with someone

[leungbok]

Al, do the AR features is set on online campaign, i never saw anything related with it on solo campaign ?

[JABBERJAW]

Sorry for being ignorant, or a brain cramp, AR ?

[Temet]

Augmented Reality ;)

(try Batman Arkham City mate :) )

[Colonel]

Edit - Woops, Temet beat me to it.

[leungbok]

Augmented Reality ;)
Yeah, they show that since the earlier trailer, months ago.

[JABBERJAW]

Just started, only one race last night, now work. Thanks for clear g that up :)

[Asayyeah]

I hope their online matchmaking idea will be more rock solid than it seems to be atm :(

[JABBERJAW]

Ok, finally got to play MULTI PLAYER campaign mode. The tracks are voted on, you have no choice how many players it play against you, 5 started getting rougher, but not horrendous. There did not seem to be much lag on the controls ( bad in hd online with analog especially). You have to do events on a grid, there is pass, elite pass ( harder) and after 3 attempts and failing at passing it lets you move on to the next event.

You have to perform a task in the event, and they vary with everyone at whatever level they are at. Some examples so far are

1) just play
2) don't come in last
3) hit one player with a weapon
4) don't come in last AND hit someone with a weapon

You can see this is going to a variety of place finishes, kills, ect, and will get harder which is fine.

VERDICT: this addition to the wipeout series is fine, BUT IS THE WORST (by far) multiplayer gaming for ANY wipeout game. This game would run fantastically in a one on one match, BUT NOPE, can't do it. To take out the racebox options ( all of them) is indeed the worst thing to EVER happen to a wipeout game. As I'm playing multiplayer (and it runs well), I keep thinking, " wouldn't This be absolutely incredible to just be able to pick a track/tournament, and options, and race someone. Maybe choose from friends, or invite only, or just anyone. Wouldn't that be great?". And then I snap back to reality, and actually get a bit down. I actually have been getting down about this game through the day. It is really that good, but am extremely worried we will NEVER get these options we need to play a legitimate single or multi player race. The wipeout HD CUP would not be possible with this game, not even close. I don't even know how I'm going to choose a race in the tourney that we want, or if we can even play one on one in ad hoc mode, or if you need 4 minimum. That doesnt really matter though as it seems you cannot choose a track/ speed in it anyway.
There is really no going for tt, sr, or zone records of any sort, just on the events.

Studio Liverpool, for the love of all things wipeout, please give us a racebox option in single AND multiplayer, not a neutered version either. Your game is very good, but WE do not want to play quest game. We will play it to unlock stuff, but our long term play is in a racebox setting, choosing our races off the tracks you made, not getting force fed something we don't want to play more than a month. The game will die off quickly without it, and I want another wipeout based on these physics for sure.

If need be here is a way to get the game mode, speed and track selection in
Ship has already been selected for those not in the know, it is done a different way

.........( single and multi player the same way and mode)

1) on the map, there is a SPEED LAP GRID, boxes for each track, speed class

2) when clicking on Altima A+ speed for example

3) It goes to a small menu choice

4) speed lap..single race....time trial....combat.....zone

.....a) if you choose speed lap, go to race (haven't done mp yet, time limit maybe)
.....b) if you choose Single Race, choose lap count, weapon option on/ off would be nice
.....c) if you choose time trial, choose lap count, turbo on/ off
.....d) if you choose combat, choose time limit, points, or kill limit
.....e) if you choose zone, choose zone limit

For Multi Player, a restart race after the finish would be welcome, then it would load way faster, AND you could be racing far more instead of looking at very long loading screens of the events(can get extremely long with the choosing, ect, over 2minutes at best

While records would be nice for the standard lap counts for the speed classes, without
changes to the standard options, It would be good even without the records, and just keep those for the events. This would at least let us play and have more fun with the game, races would start MUCH faster since you could race with two players, and you wouldnt be voting on tracks.

So there are two options for making the game great to play, not just have great gameplay, either a racebox ( preferred), or and expansion of the speed lap grid once clicked on. Hopefully this is read and taken to heart

[leungbok]

I'm not sure but i feel that the japanese version of 2048 is a bit uncomplete, no cross-play, no augmented reality...
Al, don't you think that some of your proposals for multiplayer are unlockable once the online campaign is completed ?
In any case, those proposals MUST BE IN THE GAME in a way or another !!
Wipeout always had a great re-playability since 1st episode, and customisable solo or multiplayer modes is an absolute necessity for that !!

[Temet]

SL will probably never read this.
I don't like social networks so I don't have a facebook or twitter account.
But everyone that has one must spam SL to make them understand we do want the ability to select the tracks the set up. This is the basics for god's sake!!!

http://www.facebook.com/WipEout2048
http://twitter.com/wipEout2048

This doesn't not requires heavy development! The tracks are here, the ships, the classes, everything... BUT the damned menu to select this IS NOT!!! :bomb

Please, if you contact SL. Don't be rough! The game is fantastic and they did an awesome work on the game, espescially on a new device!
Just be honest, don't let your anger express for you :)

[leungbok]

I commented that on their youtube channel : "Awesome game that you made for the psvita guys ! It can makes happy both old timers hardcore fans and newcomers. The gameplay, speed, challenge are fantastic but i worry a bit of something. Lack of time trial and single race modes all tracks/speed classes on offline mode and some customisable options for multiplayer apart of the campaign."

http://www.youtube.com/user/WipEout2048

[Temet]

Good point Leung !!!
I didn't think about the youtube profile, I'm going to push your comment :)

EDIT : I added mine
Comments can be seen here : http://www.youtube.com/user/WipEout2048/feed?filter=1

[JABBERJAW]

@ Leung, Man, I really don't think so, unfortunately. I wish it did, you know I love the gameplay. A am really agitated they added stuff like augmented reality, pictures, ect, but took out the entire heart of the game.. Also, if it took someone to unlock the entire thing to get some other features, they will leave the game long before then. Newcomers will not even come close to unlocking all the stuff, some events are pretty hardcore( nothing against this), and you don't earn enough money by just playing the game

[Temet]

For me the heart are the tracks, the speed, the gameplay and the pleasure to play!
This is present.

Just this totally uncomplete menu is crap.

[leungbok]

@ Leung, Man, I really don't think so, unfortunately
I also think there's little chance, but just in case, for not seeing the devs answering to our messages : "stop complaining, your stuff are already in the game, be patient, unlock everything before harassing us with tons of messages !"
time trial and offline modes really need a patch, but about online i hardly believe that when the campaign will be cleared, nothing will appear but redoing the different nodes, I just can't imagine that on any racer with online playing.
Vote for a track, ok, but we must be able at least to choose the class, weap on/off.

[Temet]

Then it's still broken Leung.
Imagine a lambda-racer, buying is first wipeout.
Online campaign : target -> win the race.
Opponents : Leungbok, Kaori, Asa, MadIce, Jabberjaw, etc.

... the guy will try for 1 hour and never play again.

You need racebox-like "out of the box", and for god sake play with friends o_O'.

[Colonel]

I take it this means playing 1vs1 online is impossible? If so that's lamentable.

[Asayyeah]

Comments can be seen here : http://www.youtube.com/user/WipEout2048/feed?filter=1
I also added mine.

I am pretty confident devs could patch the game adding time trials and Single Races for offline(solo) because it's the pure essence of training & competition to be able to browse over the whole speedclasses and tracks. It looks feasable because they already implemented Speed Laps that way.

About online that seems to me more difficult to add due to their new matchmaking system which does not allow to host a specific type of game : only those unlocked nodes give you a type of match. And we aren't even sure there's a kind of lobby in which you can send friends' invite and join a type of node.

It's only speculation atm but i find a bit lame devs team does not answer more about those real issues.

[Temet]

Nice one mate ;)

[lanceurdehache]

they could do it by adding private game like in Motorstorm Apocalypse, where you don't earn rank but you can choose the track you want and the vehicule class you enable, just change the option for a WipEout game and i think this is a great exemple that has been done at their brother Evolution Studio

[leungbok]

Personnaly, i think SL didn't had time to finish their game for the japanese launch (no cross play, augmented reality...), they managed to include the famous online campaign they promised since the first trailer.

I'm curious to see if the européan launch will bring some new stuff to the actual game apart cross play.

Also the fact that Karl Jones already told that a DLC will be announced at the release of the game (22/2) makes me think they have stuff to include in the game they didn't have time to do before.

Those words from him about 2048 gives me hope for a real complete wipeout in the end : "In terms of scale, I think it’s the biggest game we’ve ever done for the franchise. The multiplayer campaign alone has taken QA weeks to finish. Even after that, there’s still many more boxes that can be ticked. It’s a very complete experience and we’re really proud of it. Apart from the multiplayer, we obviously have the single player and all the satellite events and races that take place around the single player."

[JABBERJAW]

This waiting for 4 players has got to go, I can't play online. If you wait more than two minutes it should fill in whatever other spots are available with bots. Yes I know that when it's released, a lot of people will be on ( for a while), but that will die down. People should not have to wait very long to play. I don't care if that is prevailent in other games, it does not need to be in this one. I have been unable to get 4 players on today.

[JABBERJAW]

".. Apart from the multiplayer, we obviously have the single player and all the satellite events and races that take place around the single player."

I don't even understand what this means? Satellite events? Is that just the nodes, probably. When he uses the term " obviously" that would imply to me they have all the standard single player modes. It seems to me that they think that the events take the place of, and are equivalent to the previous game choices. Even though the events are SL, tt, and SR, that is not the same, considering options, speed class ect. Very bizarre this setup, like it was done by someone who never played wipeout much, and designed games where these nodes would work great.

[leungbok]

Game's unfinished, let's wait global launch to see what happens. ;)

[Temet]

Anyway, I think there is broken thing in this campaign. I didn't think about it before but, to accomplish the online campaign, for EVERY event you have to find at least 3 other racers trying to accomplish the SAME event!!
Imagine there are 20 events (I don't know how many), it's like having 20 rooms online.

Even on WipeoutHD, with A LOT more PS3 available than PSVita, this NEVER happens.

... I've just realized this. I just realize now the online campaign is a dream that cannot be achieved.

I can't imagine the number of demands on the forum : "Can someone join me on thursday and let me get Elite pass for event x?"

If online campaign unlocks features, you can throw them in the garbage right now...

It's a sad day :|

[amplificated]

I think you can play people not joining your particular attempted node... The online portion is just dead atm, I guess. I tried to play it once but left after a minute because it seemed so lifeless and just wasn't going anywhere.

It will pick up more once people finish or get used to the game, hopefully.

[JABBERJAW]

Yes you can, but I am thinking even long term as well. You shouldn't turn people off making them wait too long. Especially in Japan. If you want fans there, you need to let them play

[Temet]

Wow, thanks guys, you saved my day !

[JABBERJAW]

Online campaign is a chore, i am in the fourth tier of races, and it is not fun in the least, you have to pick combat every time if you want to have a good chance at getting elite. The goals are terrible, there has not been even one event where you can just really race, always a weapon goal too. It's useless to choose race anyway, since everyone knows to get the goal weapon events are the fastest way. I see nowhere I can select friends only. It relies on complete luck on some goals

Here's one. ( combat, but if race was chosen, same goal)

A) don't finish last
B) hit a SPecific ship with a weapon ( doesn't tell you who)
C) beat a specific opponent ( doesn't tell you who)

I don't care if this is in the game, but I want to choose a race and do it, damn it! This is not how you play wipeout, I am having zero fun with this, zero. The only reason this is
being played is to open up new events/ ships. Were any of the testers wipeout fans? Did they not say, " this isn't really that fun". Sorry guys, this just is so ehhh, that something needs to be said. This is also going to take forever to complete all elite, and then more downloads of it. There seems to be a different amount of points needed to be earned to level up as you go ( everquest), as the requirement after level 29 or 30 was 80000 points, I believe the previous was 60000, then back down to 60000 after. So winning an elite race is about 20000, but if you cannot earn elite, it will take a long ime to level up. I probably wouldn't be so pissed about this if I saw something that resembles race CHOICES on the horizon. What the hell, man a great game that seems quite likely to be missing everything that is wipeout

[lanceurdehache]

what do you specifically unlocked when you complete the Online Campaign (Unlocking thing in multiplayer (except skin) is an idiot design (thank you COD developper /sarcasm I HATE YOU! :bomb:mad: /not sarcasm) that make the one that played the most even better, try joining a FPS (wich is an idea mostly present in this genre) 3 month after the release, it is gonna be unfair and frustrating)? because if it is worthless you could just play and dont do the event ?

i just noticed there was no hide/spoiler tag in this forum

[JABBERJAW]

You earn points in either campaign to unlock events as you level up. Getting elite in all offline campaigns does not open up all he ships, but Leungbok has opened up all the SP events though ( unless he played lap after lap to earn points, which would take forever).

[lanceurdehache]

it doesnt sound good... so if i understand well when you complete all the Event in Elite, you will probably not have enought point/xp to be at the last rank/level and will not have unlocked everything ?

[leungbok]

Rank 50 unlocks the last ship, his prototype challenge and a gold trophy, i don't think higher ranks will unlock more stuff.

[JABBERJAW]

You will need to play online campaign to unlock all the items, unless you want to earn small point amounts by playing a lot of races, laps over and over again. The problem is online campaign turns into everyone picking combat ( you need to to be successful, races are much harder if you choose these), then finding the best group of weapon pads on a track and going back and forth. There is a rythm per se to doing this, but it is not fun at all. SL forgot his is a racing game, first to the finish in this mode. I'm sure eventually there will be " win the race" as a goal, but it's already far to late. There is always a weapon challenge included in this as well. Like win race, and hit two people with weapons would be an elite goal I'm sure at some point. Now its more like, " don't come in last, hit an opponent with weapon, beat a different specific opponent". The best way to get through this would be to buy 4 ps vitas, all set up on the same account, beat everyone with one ship to get elite each time, then if possible ( should be because same account) transfer the data to the other 3 mem cards ( otherwise you are stuck with one vita with unlocked items). This would be the best way, only because it's not fun enough to play days of this trying to get everything. I want to really race someone, with both people trying to win.

This is not an acceptable alternative to racebox, or for that matter, even the simple multiplayer options of WIPEOUT 1

I am 100% now saying a racebox needs to be put in, if you want to play wipeout. Taking it out is the a worse decision than Fusion being sticky to the ground. At least in that game you can race each other legit, with a tn of options


@ leungbok, I think though there will be more download online/SP events where you will still need to do this sort of stuff, instead of a racebox mode.

[leungbok]

Yes, but don't you think it can unlocks single race's nodes all tracks/speed classes on online campaign's map, as the speed laps on offline campaign ?

[JABBERJAW]

No, maybe the a+ challenge,and SL has to be in. I havent seen a hint of anything, and the silence from studio Liverpool says it all I think. Even if they had the A + stuff, I am I believe 50 races in and nothing but the nonsense so far. This is not even close to single player campaign, at least that was fun, even though we want more

[kaori]

Here the canadian box of WipEout 2048 : http://youtu.be/50Q2SyqsSx0?t=2m36s

You can see 4-8 players in infrastructure, so I really doubt we can play online with one friend, before an expected update.

You can see too the translation in french isn't entire, so you can read twice "intuitive touch interface and motion tilt controls, compete with other online players and dominate the leaderboards"

How this mistake could be possible !

[lanceurdehache]

I dont get why the box is already out... but yeah this box is illegal here in our province, they are probably going to need to change it

[leungbok]

I am I believe 50 races in and nothing but the nonsense so far. This is not even close to single player campaign, at least that was fun, even though we want more

But once the online campaign will be completed, what... only the possibility to redo all the events ? That seems unbelievable !!

[JABBERJAW]

Man I hope not!, I'm almost halfway through, people started leaving around 2 am Japanese time, otherwise I might have got to level 45, and area 14 or so (19 total). I hope at the very least those 10 A+ races are available.

Bugs,

1)there is some controller lag
2) so much is going on, you own quake hits you if you are moving a lot of the time
3) sometimes it shows quake and fires a missle

Annoyances

1) 8 players is choppy as he'll, you cannot select less, you get whoever joins to fill the room up. This is absolutely horrendous, 4 plays alright, and better on races ( which you don't want to play during the campaign)

Funny

1) NOONE is using the picture taking at all. You can cancel the photo before the race

Negcon

1) a Bluetooth negcon would be sweet with this game

[lanceurdehache]

Nice to know that you can cancel the photo at the beginning and what is a bluetooth negcon ? (are yout talking about the weird PS1 controller)

[Stardragon88]

I'm really not feeling the online at all :frown: hopped in for a couple of games (think I ran into a couple of you guys!) a bit ago. I don't really fancy the online campaign being baked into the entire online mode, with no racebox to boot. There's not much incentive it seems to pick race over combat and after several consecutive combat matches I called it a night.

I'm almost done finishing up getting elite clears on the offline campaign and I'm sitting at roughly rank 25 from the exp. I'm not looking forward to having to play the online campaign till I hit 50 if I want to unlock the rest of the ships. :frown:

That aside, after a long break from HD/Fury it's nice to be playing Wipeout again! Bit of work digging out this old account.

[JABBERJAW]

I am wipeout2098XL on there, everyone left. The only way to level up fast is to play this horrible combat game. It's like freaking jousting with weapons, everyone finds a weapon stretch and goes back and forth, absolutely stupid. They should give you ten points for completing a lap, then at least people would move around the track

[leungbok]

I look forward your report when you'll finish the online campaign, i hope some reassuring news ! :|

[JABBERJAW]

So the points for moving up a rank are now stRting to go sky high, it's taking a LONG TIME now to level up, especially depending on 50 % luck

[Darkdrium777]

It's like freaking jousting with weaponsWell... Jousting should be one on one. Since the game doesn't allow that I imagine it would be a riot.
But jousting done well is this concept (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMlKt9x2q4w). If it were more like that I'd imagine it would be actually fun. Heh.
(If you don't get it, you spawn next to the enemy flag and fight one on one to bring it back to your side)

EDIT:
I nearly missed this.

Here the canadian box of WipEout 2048 : http://youtu.be/50Q2SyqsSx0?t=2m36s
There's a fricking online pass? Sigh.
"WipEout is so popular we should totally prevent used game sales a few years down the line when we won't have it in print anymore."
-A retard at Sony marketing.
Oh and it's for every. single. ****ing. online. game. ever. That's ****ing brilliant too.

[lanceurdehache]

Online pass are bought on PSN store, wtf are you talking about and it is pretty much standart in most the release nowadays, it is illegal to sell used movie and music but not video games wich is ridiculous and thats why publisher are doing this and if you are unable to buy a Online pass it probably mean that the server are closed for this game. (You also have to consider that a movie is making money when it is in theatre, when you buy the DVD/Blu-ray, after they make money on the right to put them on TV and they could also release a Special Edition that will make the people buy the DVD/Blu-ray again (like for Star Wars), music is making money when you hear it on radio, you buy the song and make show, Video game make money when you buy the game, when you buy DLC/Expansion (wich cost money to make and could make a loss if not enought people are buying it even if some are pretty scandalous (exemple: Every DLC from Capcom)) and the used game is removing the principal source of revenue wich is when you initially bought the game)


"WipEout is so popular we should totally prevent used game sales a few years down the line when we won't have it in print anymore."

WTF this is simply complete bullshit, it will not prevent used game and the developper is not making money on used game sale, used game sale only remove the money that they would get if someone would have buy it new. How many time did you buy a game and the guy offer you to buy the used game for 5 $ less, how many accept this. The store will probably just drop the price of the used game by the price of the Online pass and the total will be the same, probably 5 $ less than new in total and this time the developper is going to get the money and the parasite (the store wich is in parasitism symbiotic relationship) is going to have less benefice (money in this case). Used game is hurting the Game Developper as much if not more than Piracy.

Sorry for the long post but Online Pass exist because some (in this case the retailer) made profit while hurting badly the one that gave them the content to sale like a parasite.

[leungbok]

stRting to go sky high

Then people should vote more for race rather than combat, no ?

[Darkdrium777]

it is illegal to sell used movie and musicNo it is not. That's what they want you to believe, but the first sale law in the US still exists.
However boy do they want it to be illegal, and they will force you to believe it by putting false disclaimers before the movie.


You also have to consider that a movie is making money when it is in theatre, when you buy the DVD/Blu-ray, after they make money on the right to put them on TV and they could also release a Special Edition that will make the people buy the DVD/Blu-ray again (like for Star Wars)Because games today totally do not do this as well with GOTY editions...
DLC is standard practice that I can respect when it is done well for a game that doesn't require bugfixes first i.e. WipEout HD Fury.
The online pass system is opposed to the DLC business model in the sense that if someone buys a used game, they wanted to save some money. If you have DLC for your game they might want to check it out, but because online is locked out it makes your DLC doubly expensive. Buying the DLC with no online capability makes no sense as you would be buying half of a product again.


Used game is hurting the Game Developper as much if not more than Piracy.I'd get all sad and weepy right along with you if it weren't for the fact that the entertainment industry, particularly the video game sector, is among the most profitable markets in the US right now (I think entertainment overall is the most profitable with net gains everywhere, but I am not sure so do not quote me on that.)

Also, right along that mentality of your whole post, used car sales are horrible and blablabla every used item sale ever.
What the people don't realize is that these things exist because of the cheaper price.

If selling used things was illegal, it doesn't mean publishers would suddenly see the money in used game sales line their pockets. Most likely there would be no sale at all, as well as increased waste disposal (which is horrible in itself.)

I'll ask you why Steam is a popular store and if your answer is different from "Steam Sales" in any way, you are wrong. And yet Steam doesn't allow you to sell used games. It's popular because it's cheap and accessible to many, not to mention you can access it on all the electronic devices you own (vs PSN where you have ridiculous locks to memory cards and devices and I don't even know what anymore.)

That's what the people don't get. Price and accessibility is the problem. Not piracy or used game sales.

The used games business is successful for EB/Gamestop because it is cheaper, and therefore more accessible. That's all.

[JABBERJAW]

@Leungbok, no because it would take 10 times as long to complete the passes to unlock things.

[lanceurdehache]

No it is not. That's what they want you to believe, but the first sale law in the US still exists.
However boy do they want it to be illegal, and they will force you to believe it by putting false disclaimers before the movie.

Go to Futurshop/ Best Buy/ HMV try to find the used movie or music place, wait there none, wait why o yeah because it is illegal. Nothing stop to sell those directly to someone but by a store it is illegal.


Because games today totally do not do this as well with GOTY editions...

You know a lot of guy that buy the GOTY edition when they already have the standart edition. You can buy DLC to make your standart identical to the GOTY edition for movie you have to buy the whole thing again,


The online pass system is opposed to the DLC business model in the sense that if someone buys a used game, they wanted to save some money.

Thats why retailer will simply drop the price of their used game (on their scandalous profit margin) by the price of the Online Pass and the total for the consummer will be the same and they will have the ability to not buy the Online Pass saving them 10 $.


I'd get all sad and weepy right along with you if it weren't for the fact that the entertainment industry, particularly the video game sector, is among the most profitable markets in the US right now (I think entertainment overall is the most profitable with net gains everywhere, but I am not sure so do not quote me on that.)

Because everyone is Activision/Blizzard with two cow that make infinite money for the cost of developpement like COD and WOW, there is totally never a studio that get closed down because of one game that didnt sell well even if their game was pretty good (Bizzare Creation, Black Rock Studio), the entertainement industries is making money on 10 % of their creation the other 90 % often lose money.


Also, right along that mentality of your whole post, used car sales are horrible and blablabla every used item sale ever.
What the people don't realize is that these things exist because of the cheaper price.

Used car is not the same thing, when you buy a game it is always the same thing, it doesnt degrade with time like a car. You think who is making money when you buy parts to repair your car, the car manufacturer. Similar to an Online Pass


If selling used things was illegal, it doesn't mean publishers would suddenly see the money in used game sales line their pockets. Most likely there would be no sale at all, as well as increased waste disposal (which is horrible in itself.)

Because none of the sale that were lost to used game because the seller offer a used game would be made, yeah right.


I'll ask you why Steam is a popular store and if your answer is different from "Steam Sales" in any way, you are wrong. And yet Steam doesn't allow you to sell used games. It's popular because it's cheap and accessible to many, not to mention you can access it on all the electronic devices you own (vs PSN where you have ridiculous locks to memory cards and devices and I don't even know what anymore.)

Because Steam is not intrusive and often a PITA but a Online Pass yes, yeah right, Steam is DRM and Price are a lot better on Ebay and often on Amazon than Steam.


That's what the people don't get. Price and accessibility is the problem. Not piracy or used game sales.

Because the Indie Bundle is not pirated, yes it is. Price and accessibility for the Indie Bundle is not a problem. Some people pirate and say i will not support a game developper who put a DRM in their game but guess what, The Witcher 2 as no DRM, 2 million sold, 4 million copy pirated.


The used games business is successful for EB/Gamestop because it is cheaper, and therefore more accessible. That's all.

It is mostly cheaper by 5 $, i totally forget how in North America and Europe we are making 2 $ a day, and that the 5 $ is 2 day and half of work, when you go to the restaurant you often tipped for more than 5 $ without thinking but for a game most people think about that.

The only argument to piracy that work, his the accessibility, if you can t find the game anywhere, it is okay to pirate it, but the price is not okay, i dont drive a Lamborghini and i will never drive one because i dont have the money. For game you dont have to money to buy a game, you can buy an older game, you could even play to a free to play game, there is no excuse.

[JABBERJAW]

Selling used games and used music CDs is not illegal in the US. Its a very profitable business in the US, and keeps stores in business. Hard copies of games should not require an online pass, UNLESS that online pass code is on the box and can be enabled by the used game buyer, which would in effect disable the original buyer. The online pass cost nothing.

My guess is that Sony is not allowing what I stated above?

Dark is right in saying about the used game sale, 95% of the time there would be no sale.

Wait a minute, this went off topic completely.

Some stuff about online then :

1) controller lag from HD is back
2) barrel rolls STILL do not work sometimes
3) the 8 player thing is awful, there is no choice to cut this down
4) 4 player minimum is stupid, fill in the missing players with bots, and make it playable with two, or even one for that matter. Having to wait is nonsense. If we are going to be forced to do this campaign, then make it accessible even if you are the only one on.

[lanceurdehache]

But Sony want that 5 % (i will take the number you pull out even if it is mostly way highter than that) and the Online portion of a game is considered a service, they dont care and should not care about the scum that buy a game for 5 $ less.

You really think Game Developper care for the satisfaction of a client that didnt gave them money in return. If you think that they should care, you are an idealist.

[JABBERJAW]

This is about online campaign, let's keep it there.

[Darkdrium777]

Go to Futurshop/ Best Buy/ HMV try to find the used movie or music placeOkay (http://www.futureshop.ca/Search/SearchResults.aspx?path=ca77b9b4beca91fe414314b86b b581f8en20&q=%252a&sp=FS_en-CA_Product_Collection_Site-WideSP&Facet=cFSMCCPCatalogenCAPresentationHierarchy1%252 3%2523-1%2523%2523-1%257e%257eq2a%257e%257ecFSMCCPCatalogenCA27603%25 23%25237%2523%25231fl%257e%257enf21%257c%257c52656 67572626973686564&viewall=true&targetCategory=27603) I found it. (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/category/previously-played-games/28897.aspx)
Are we done?
In any case I'm done because I'm not really interested in multi quote wars again.

And the online campaign is still awful. Racebox mode please. That is all.

[lanceurdehache]

Those are all games, i ask for used music/movie...

[Darkdrium777]

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/montreal.htm should be enough.

If you want to shop around now do it on your own please and stop wasting everyone's time with your baseless arguments (Because they are baseless, as I've clearly shown to you many cases of evidence that such business has gone on, is going on, and will still go on in our country and in the USA despite the insistence of the big publishers that it is somehow illegal when it isn't.)

[lanceurdehache]

So i made my research, it is legal to sell used movie/music for Canadian but it is written the opposite on the FBI warning. You were right on this point.

[JABBERJAW]

Please take this somewhere else, it has nothing to do with the topic

[leungbok]

For those who can play online. Are you able to see more than the first page of the leaderboards (8 best players) ?

[JABBERJAW]

I don't think there are leader boards for anything, but I'll check. I don't believe it's the same events on the grid, and always changing due to who's online, but that could be wrong.

My leader boards only show 8, not 10. I assumed it was 10 when I looked at it, but I forgot people always keep track of the top 8


Just checked, no it does not

[leungbok]

Al, have you already played an A+ race online ?

[JABBERJAW]

i don't think so, i normally play combat exclusively to get the elite pass easier, and I generally get surprised when a real racing event is loaded(since everyone votes combat). I end up racing with a combat ship pissed because I cant get the goal in a real race easily, and I just picked a slow ship to boot

[leungbok]

When you vote, what are the options ? You can chose combat or race i guess, but can you vote for a speed class too ?

[Temet]

If it's a vote for class, that sucks!
I don't wanna play C or B !!! :blarg

[leungbok]

But it's worse if it's random !

[Temet]

I feel that I won't play online on this episode :blarg

[JABBERJAW]

You cannot select speed class, nothing.

[Temet]

WTF ??!!?? :blarg
What about preparing a visit to SL? (gently of course...)

[Darkdrium777]

The IGN video review truly exemplifies how terrible this vote system really is by actually showing what it looks like. I recommend you go and watch it if you haven't.
It might be cool for casual players looking for some quick online action, but there aren't any of those people here. It really needs online racebox customizations. :|

[Hellfire_WZ]

I'll see if I can have a word on Friday at the PSAccess event. I can understand why they'd want to have a campaign like this to unlock stuff, but to take away such basic functions...

[Temet]

Yeah, the guy from IGN is right, and it's killing me to write this!!!
When you see the stupid vote system... they completely broke the online! Online campaign was a nice addition, ABSOLUTELY NOT a replacement of the existing online as we know it!!!

SL, if you read this, just f***ing listen to us!!!!
I don't care about a DLC with new tracks, ships, musics!! Just bring back the basics : OPTIONS !!!! Wipeout is not and will never be a casual game, don't try to move this way, you'll lose 90% of the fans!

[lanceurdehache]

They can still offer the two system, with a ranked game one wich is like what they did and add a private game where you choose everything and that you join with a list of host and/or a friend invitation

(Motorstorm and Split/Second were like that if i can recall and it worked well)

[amplificated]

The "problem" of waiting times has been solved for years already. Give the player the option to start their own game with the player's preferred settings and join there from lobby selection, and also have the option to quickly join a random lobby/game.

That SL are reducing their system so drastically reeks of disrespect for the intelligence of the people they think they're making the game for.

[stin]

(Motorstorm and Split/Second were like that if i can recall and it worked well)

Technically yes but they don`t have airbrakes. Honestly, I did tried their 2048 settings and honestly, I already struggled to play.

stevie:)

[leungbok]

That SL are reducing their system so drastically reeks of disrespect for the intelligence of the people they think they're making the game for.

Regarding how HD's online is atm (90% of eliminator and flash races), devs did the game that most people seems to wait for :rolleyes:

[Temet]

If you don't express you wan't more options Leung, then don't be surprised not to see them !

[leungbok]

I told them on their youtube account and many times on various threads here.
And i doubt my concerns can be decisive :beer

[Temet]

We have to be all ... euh... enfin se serrer les coudes quoi ^^
Your concerns are not decisive, mine are not... but all us united may be! ;)

[Stardragon88]

Anyone else having problems connecting to the online campaign? I've recently been getting errors such as "An error occured whilst retrieving the universe list. Please try again.

[amplificated]

Regarding how HD's online is atm (90% of eliminator and flash races), devs did the game that most people seems to wait for :rolleyes:

Admittedly I haven't played in a while, but when I did eliminator was a small portion of the lobbies available compared to tournament and single race... maybe making up 10-30 percent at most.