Will 2048 be the last wipeout ?

[leungbok]

- IMO if psvita sells well and if wipeout 2048 confirms the expectations, it can reach a good score and then all will be possible, on several platforms (even if some can disagree with the wipeout gameplay, storyline, design, music, features etc. a real fan must support the serie at least as a concept)
I mean, wipeout franchise was close to die with SL redundancies, so i don't think wipeout will have other chances if 2048 fails !

Even here on the n°1 wipeout fansite, i don't see many enthusiasm compared to some generalist video games websites.
I find it a bit sad ! :?

[infoxicated]

Nah - they'll roll it out for the launch of any new Sony hardware like they always do. Even if 2048 is a commercial failure, I'm sure we'll see another WipEout game whenever the PS4 arrives.

[leungbok]

Maybe, but in that case wipeout will be resumed in the role of a technical demo, the franchise deserves better than that, more contents and events, a bigger community !

[Xpand]

Well, the Wipeout franchise has more chances of continuing than the Ace combat franchise. The only thing bugging my mind is what are going to be the next WO's about. Will they continue from 2207 on again or will they go on after 2048 basically redoing the old wipeouts, which would be cooler IMO. The thing is wipeout has sells a lot because of it's tradition of coming out everytime a new console comes out. Which is a bit sad too because if they waited some time after the release the quality of their games would increase dramatically because games improve a lot after a while since the release of a console.

[Blaey]

one of the latest interviews stated that this wipeout was 'their biggest game yet' which would lead me to believe that they're doing pretty well with sony and seem to be hitting all the right notes to be in with more chances in the future.
Because wipeout games generally launch with consoles it stands true that if wipeout fails it will only be because the vita has failed as wipeout 2048 seems to be the number 2 most wanted game for the handheld at the moment (behind uncharted) so we can keep our hopes high!

[Colonel]

2048 does seem to have had a really good response from potential customers and from the press, so hopefully it will be a commercial success and will lead to future Wipeouts. I'd love to see them do one for the launch of the PS4, one that makes fans of the series happy, and gets tonnes of new players.

But I guess that's what we all want right?

[stin]

Maybe foxy`s right but I just don`t see it that way.

Ok, IMO, From Original to Pure including Fusion, everything are going great from year to year till now. I didn`t expect them to make another wipeout 2048 BUT another console!, well I know for a start I`m not buying for that!

I`m not blaming to creators who created 2048 but, to me, they are not pushing to the right path and they are slowly killing them the whole franchise altogether and stay there forever, just like RollCage II.

Now, to me, maybe I`d moved on but I always still play WipEouts, But HD, not played them for months.

So, last 2048?, I hate to say this, I would say yes but, unless they come up with a fantastic idea? Then I might persuade it.

stevie

[blackwiggle]

Probably not the last Wipeout, it's now basically written in stone that any new Sony console release will get a newish Wipeout of some description to go with it on release.

The problem lies with any totally new Wipeout basically being given away as a bundle with these new consoles releases.
Sure Sony must plan financially for this, but once the initial run is out there, and some other game get's replaced as the "Bundled game", your not going to get as many actual sales of the new Wipeout, so the amount actually recouped $ wise is going to be low.
This must effect how Sony treat any further development of either DLC for Wipeout, and ultimately if any totally new game without a new console release is ever made again.

I'm hoping for a PS3 port of 2048, I think it's likely to happen at some stage, as it would seem strange to include HD within 2048 and only making half the game cross platform compatible.

[Chill]

I don't think this site is as active before because most members have already spoken there heart out and laid there voice on this site so much about the franchise that they're beginning to run out of things to say... I know that's why I don't write on here, or else I would simply be repeating what I had written in the past, and I don't wanna over-do it to the point that no one listens to what I have to say... That and I'm currently working 12+ hour shifts like everyday of the week...

But I don't think Wipeout has come anywhere near its end yet, as it's recipe isn't currently without flaw... There are many elements that could make Wipeout better as we all could see, but if the developers keep puting out the same recipe, they're going to run out of space with reason of developement... Just because the last game selled well doesn't mean they should keep the same recipe with the new idea of a new camera or a new little option or whatever.... They need to continually improve the recipe as the consoles improve or the fans will get tired of it. They need to experiment, though it can be a risky operation as experimenting in this case costs vasts amounts of currency from the company, because it's impossible to see the outcome other then selling it to the community.

[kaori]

WipEout 2048 doesn't include HD !!! And it's the big problem of WipEout 2048, even the fans do the mistake !

WipEout 2048 is independant to HD, it's a new game, with new "long" tracks, new ships, new game modes, super-phantom !

The first idea to Sony was good, it's WipEout HD on PS Vita, look like our new system PS Vita is powerful. But everybody or almost have already WipEout HD on his PS3, it was a free game with PlayStation +, it was a gift after the PSN.

And now, 98% of people tell them "why will I buy a 250€ new system and a 40€ gamecard for a game I had already for free last year, or for 15-25€ two or three years ago ? I'd rather wait a next "2048" DLC for my WipEout HD on PS3"

Which game had got his second DLC 5 years after its release ??? It will be ridiculous, won't it ?

In the spirit of most of people, 2048 isn't the game with HD in free bonus, the game is HD with an add-on 2048. So no, 2048 won't be the last WipEout, it's HD :lol before the next I hope.

Bad strategy Sony...

[Blaey]

+1 kaori

[infoxicated]

My love for it fell away as they attempted to make it more mass market. After it became more about the weapons and the gimmicks (barrel rolls, short cuts) than it was about racing, I just lost interest.

Funny, I used to love the Tony Hawk's series, too, but once it became more about Jackass antics than being a skating simulation I just hated it. And the same with Madden - I bought it every year on the day of release for five straight years until it became really arcadey.

I wonder if that's the price of gaming going from being a niche pastime to a mass market form of entertainment. WipEout appealed to a certain demographic and their attempts to sell it to the mass market diluted what made it compelling to the original audience.

I hope at some point in the future they do a true reboot. No barrel rolls, no mag strips, and just a handful of pick-up pads sprinkled around the circuits.

@Xpand - I hope the same is true of Ace Combat - they've really taken a walk off the map with the Assault Horizon and as a once devoted Ace Combat fan I wouldn't go near it now.

[kaori]

I agree Infoxicated, even if I discover WipEout later than you with barell roll (Pure) and I appreciate them.
It's sad because the "mass" can appreciate a WipEout in slow classes, and the hardcore can appreciate a WipEout in high classes. No need to do an "easier" game.

[amplificated]

You guys haven't attempted Anulpha Pass using the "gimmicks" yet, have you? I'm so over informing people that venom is not that easy. These "gimmicks" are inherent to the design of the game, if you aren't going to use them, you're not playing properly, truly. If that's your problem, so be it, but don't say something like:


It's sad because the "mass" can appreciate a WipEout in slow classes (while hardcore appreciate phantom)
or

After it became more about ... the gimmicks (barrel rolls, short cuts) than it was about racing, I just lost interest.

And this thread is pure negative speculation, which is more likely to shake confidence of some fans and people of casual interest in the series reading than if nothing was mentioned at all. There's really nothing positive that can come out of this thread... and to back up my point, it's clear that all we've got is people moaning.

A similar discussion that poses positive questions would be "what will the next WO be like", and while some people I'm sure would just come up with random stupid ideas, the sane would use what we know already and combine that with speculation to form an idea.

My 2c.

[Blaey]

infoxicated does give a good point.

Considering WipEout is effectively Formula1 car racing set in the future it would be interesting to go right back to basics and effectively make the next wipeout like the latest Formula1 game (i'm not too formula1 game savvy so idk who made it or what it's like) but back in the day (if im not mistaken) i thought that psygnosis made the f1 games which is why wipeout went a different direction for an alternative audience after wipeout2052.

Unfortunately this may mess around with the wipeout DNA too much and destroy what makes wipeout great...

All i wish is that pit-lanes return at some point ;D

[WolfKill01]

Definitely not. WipEout 2048 is an ALL NEW game. With exception of the physics engine, is almost completely independent of HD. HD is just there to be a tech demo for cross-play. It looks new, it looks exciting, and I'm most definitely gonna buy it. 2048 has style and presence. Something that's been lacking since Pulse. And style is a pretty big staple of the WipEout series if I remember correctly. Track design being another. And this game has both.

I'm an old school WipEout fan and I'm excited for 2048. Sue me. ;)

[leungbok]

+1 Wolfkill
The most important thing is :
Do wipeout still provides the feelings that made you love the serie ?
- Is wipeout still fast ? Yes ! And super-phantom class is the step forward i personaly anticipate the most on the next episode (i was afraid that seing all the slow classes rooms on HD-fury, SL suppress fastest classes :cold).
- Do the anti-gravity feeling still here ? Yes !! With sometimes huge differences between the episodes (fusion, pulse...) but still present, airbrakes are always your friends to take some difficult turns.
- Do the design still the same ? IMO yes ! I mean still futuristic and stylish. Tracks still have tunnels, crazy jumps, loops etc. The tracks, ships and their team's logos are still particularily well designed (from Designers Republic to Rita Linsley on fury's zone tracks = talented people).

And about the new (relatively) features that gives the game another dimension : Multiplayer is the greatest !! Playing a wipeout online with friends is a wonderfull experiment ! Frankly, barrel rolls or not shouldn't alterates the pleasure to race and fight online, since it's possible to set br-off races (i had great sessions with Medusa playing random races or tournaments with or without weapons in no-br rooms ! Unfortunately quiters were most numerous than usual :-).

@Rob, i dislike too the weapon based system on HD and the mass market strategy from SL, but if they still give some crumbs to hardcore gamers (super-phantom, zone mode, speedlaps or tt online and offline) i'm fine with it if they succeed to attract new players.

@Amp, i'm sorry but any difficult it may be, slow classes must be a step to reach the fastest class on wipeout as it always be. Adrenaline is on phantom class, not on venom, even with 10 or twelve BRs on chengou or sebenco ;).

Wipeout 2048 is coming soon, and it seems that multiplayer will be the keyword for that episode. possibilities of cross play with wipeout HD's ps3 owners, online campaign, improved tactical use of items, ghosts and challenges to send at friends on speedlaps (at least) sessions... and off course discovering new tracks offline and with fellow pilots !! All of that is really exciting ! :hyper

[amplificated]

@Amp, i'm sorry but any difficult it may be, slow classes must be a step to reach the fastest class on wipeout as it always be. Adrenaline is on phantom class, not on venom, even with 10 or twelve BRs on chengou or sebenco ;)

I'm not debating that, I'm just saying that to truly accomplish a track on venom speed it takes a lot of skill in response to people generalising it as a sub-class. It requires a level of dextrousness simply incapable of being useful or accessible on other speeds (phantom in particular has its own tricks, no doubt, but that's beside the point).

If your goal is to be sufficient enough at the game to win every other race online or just to be competitive, fine, venom isn't for you; but there are people who take the challenge to make it as interesting as the faster speed classes. Of course venom will always be a gateway to the rest of the game, I just don't think it should be disqualified by default once you think you're good enough to be your definition of competitive in a higher speed class.

edit: not saying you, Leung, just "you" in general; I know you're good at venom!

[leungbok]

I understand your arguing, but you forgot my main one : The feeling, the adrenaline, the almost lost control of your ship, well i can't say the wind in your hairs but you get the idea. Venom with lots of tricks is difficult undoubtly, but can't rivalise for me with the intensity of a phantom (and soon super-phantom) race. Honestly i don't care which class is the most difficult, my only interest is in which class i can have the more fun.

[Blaey]

Definitely not. WipEout 2048 is an ALL NEW game. With exception of the physics engine, is almost completely independent of HD. HD is just there to be a tech demo for cross-play. It looks new, it looks exciting, and I'm most definitely gonna buy it. 2048 has style and presence. Something that's been lacking since Pulse. And style is a pretty big staple of the WipEout series if I remember correctly. Track design being another. And this game has both.
+1 wolfkill

I seem to be in the same boat as you at the moment am as excited for 2048 as i was for pure back in the day but i still feel that even pure had an ounce more style than 2048.

Why can't people get the picture that this is a brand spankin new game with small ties to HD to showcase how powerful the vita is

[amplificated]

Adrenaline wasn't part of the original argument though, just people saying they think venom sucks. All I did was disagree.

I know venom is not the same as phantom, there's no point arguing that. I consider phantom a separate game from venom-rapier, personally, I think it's a world apart. And yes, I do think phantom is significantly harder in general if - and this is a massively important IF - you are trying to be good at it. Most people who trash venom are not, I believe. They are trying to be competitive.

[Xpand]

Hell, venom class is the hardest for me! My favourite speed class is rapier. But venom it's just annoyingly hard! Especially because the ship diferences are more noticeable in that speed class...

[kaori]

@ amplificated, don't quote me and just after write "this thread is pure negative speculation", because I've always defended 2048 like a new and exciting game. I've always prefered (although I am a minority) the idea of a all new brand WipEout on PS3 that an adaptation of 2048 on PS3. And I like barell rolls.

I've just written that the WipEout games can be appreciated by the "mass" in low classes, just appreciated, they don't need to destroy the IA with the incredible gimmicks of some hardcore players. Like after training, everybody can win a race in phantom without the gimmicks of other very good players.

I've just written that WipEout is already opened to new players and the "mass", with the low classes it's an accessible game. So yes, I understand the feeling of some players who loves the WipEout games on PS1, without BR, fluid lines, and don't recognize that in the recent WipEout game. The serie don't need pilot-assist or easier tracks to please the people. It's not negative to understand that, and it won't stop me to buy WipEout 2048 day one.

[infoxicated]

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's a new game with a new console, but my excitement is tempered by the fact the same gameplay gimmicks that turned me away from Pure, Pulse, and HD will be in there.

I want to love what the series has become, but I just can't accept that pressing left+right+left twenty times a lap belongs in what's supposed to be a simulation of a future racing series. Given that it's such a poorly implemented game mechanic that you can even do it by accident... well, I won't ever take WipEout seriously while it's part of it.

I'll give 2048 a try for sure and I hope it's a great game for those of you willing to sacrifice your Vita's left analogue stick or D-pad to compete on the record tables, but I hope at some point down the line there's a true reboot that takes it right back to the core of what WipEout was all about for me when I felt compelled to start a fan site for it.

[gmrtom7]

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's a new game with a new console, but my excitement is tempered by the fact the same gameplay gimmicks that turned me away from Pure, Pulse, and HD will be in there.

I want to love what the series has become, but I just can't accept that pressing left+right+left twenty times a lap belongs in what's supposed to be a simulation of a future racing series. Given that it's such a poorly implemented game mechanic that you can even do it by accident... well, I won't ever take WipEout seriously while it's part of it.

I'll give 2048 a try for sure and I hope it's a great game for those of you willing to sacrifice your Vita's left analogue stick or D-pad to compete on the record tables, but I hope at some point down the line there's a true reboot that takes it right back to the core of what WipEout was all about for me when I felt compelled to start a fan site for it.

You mention that you'd like to compete in the leaderboards (or so I understand it), but you also claim that you'd like Wipeout to go back to what it once was. Don't get me wrong, I love the classic Wipeouts as much as the next fan, but those games didn't have the online leaderboard functionality that today's games do. You survived without them, and the barrel-roll dominated leaderboards of Pulse, HD, and 2048 could be just as easily ignored.

You enjoyed those games as they were a decade ago, and obviously felt some sense of community could be generated, hence the creation of this site. From there (I can only assume), user-made leaderboards were made for those games. Why not reciprocate this with 2048? The physics of the crafts aren't entirely the same, but I'm sure that you would have no trouble creating a "no barrel-roll" league within WZ. If you were able to accomplish something like this with the original trio of games, why not with this one?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I feel like the answer lies in the (albeit trite) response of "if you don't like a feature, don't use it." I would certainly be up for a "classic Wipeout" leaderboard here on WZ. All it requires is a change of mindset.

Just my two cents; I don't mean to insult or accuse you, I'm just offering an alternative to ignoring the last decade's worth of Wipeout games. ;)

[leungbok]

Why not reciprocate this with 2048? The physics of the crafts aren't entirely the same, but I'm sure that you would have no trouble creating a "no barrel-roll" league within WZ
It was already created for HD with small success, but if something like that is created for 2048, i'll support it and participate (but i'll also compete on the gimmick's rankings ;)) !

I guess super-phantom with all the skillcuts will be already really interesting and fun to race without BRs, so maybe someone should create a poll to see the potential of such league.
Not me, i can participate just to have fun with old timers, but there's no chance i create myself a no-br league and rankings ! :D