PS4 Discussion

[Colonel]

For a while now there's been speculation in the press and online regarding the next generation of platforms, in particular the PS4 and XBox 720. I'm just wondering what you all think of the prospect of an incoming PS4...
Have you heard anything interesting, any launch date rumours etc?
What would you like from the machine, both software and hardware?
Do you think we need another generation of home consoles, or are cloud gaming services like Onlive the future?
Any other thoughts?

[JFthebestJan]

i believe sony will reveal the new ps4 at e3 2012.
i expect it to be MORE powerful of course, and eventually it'll be much smaller, i think (ps3slim like). i read something about the new chip-architecture, no cell anymore, but quadcore-like (no link sry).
i can't think of a new medium, so they'll stay with blu-ray, i guess (maybe an extended version).
all i want is a complete backwards compability to all 3 previous playstations.
so my gaming library will be very BIG from the start :D
and i believe, ps4 will be the first console, which breaks the 1000euro launch-day price.

[amplificated]

I'd want it to have an always-on OS that you can access at any time, mainly for messaging - it's very annoying when you want to send a message to someone and the system hangs until it finishes loading. I'd also like the browser to be available whilst in-game.

I also hope it's backwards compatible and you can download all PSN games like 'HD straight onto it; and that the default controllers still have "6axis" support. I also want those controllers to be better quality than the standard PS3 controllers. If I have to learn a PS4 WipEout with no motion pitch control.... *shakes fist*.

On the hardware front, I'd want superior gfx that offer 1080p easily at minimum, and an SSD for loading speeds. Also, I hope Sony don't go nuts on the media card support like they initially did with the PS3; just make it a simple console for games and basic media streaming support. PC's are infinitely superior for dealing with that kind of thing.

There's no way the PS4 will cost 1000 euros; the whole point of a console is to be a cheap point for gaming. For 1000 euros you could get a very decent PC - hell, for $1000 AUD I can get a good one right now.

[Olivario]

...and i believe, ps4 will be the first console, which breaks the 1000euro launch-day price.

Impossible, Sony already had enough problems with PS3 for years because of its price (and it was 600 euros). They won't make again the same mistake.

My biggest wish is that it has compatibility with PS3 games (I'd like that it has also with PSOne and PS2 games but that won't happen for sure).

About software I wish there are more platform games and JRPG's as they used to be in previous generations. I pray for the return of Jak and an old-school Final Fantasy.

I don't care about launch titles since I will probably act like I did with PS3: buying it 2 years after its launch so there are many quality platinum games at that moment.

[Colonel]

Personally I hope the internet browser is vastly improved. Going on Youtube for example is hopeless on the PS3, the resolution is awful and it's a clunky interface. In fact the whole browser is crap to be honest.

They should just get a 3rd party developer to make them a decent one, or just stick Chrome on it or something.

[MetaKraken]

I would rather stick with my PS3 and my hard-earned trophies instead of replacing it to PS4. ;)

[nismology]

Maybe when the PS4 comes out, I'll finally be able to afford a PS3!

I really hope they stay away from the whole kinect/motion control thing and stick to the dualshock concept. These things are fine as add ons for a few party games, but nothing can replace a well designed game pad imo. They need to stick to physical media as well, and NOT make the PS4 a cloud gaming service. It also had better be called the PlayStation 4. Enough of these silly console names like 'Vita' and 'Wii-U'

If the Vita is the huge success it has the potential to be, they may not even bother with a new home console for the time being.

[Temet]

I don't particuliarly want backward compatibility. Taking into account PS3 "exotic" architecture (cell cpu), this would need some hardware pieces that would dramatically increase the cost of the PS4. I can keep my PS3 to play with PS3 games ;)
Apparently, if what has been said about PSVita is true, Sony finally cared about dev's opinions. That's a really good new!
The main progress would be 1080p/60fps for every game, with no need of sacrifices. In this case, PS4 could have a very long lifetime IMO.

I would like so much a new controller! I hate dualshocks since the first one.

In my dreams, I would like a very nice multimedia part... but with PS3 and PSP experience, I give this dream 0.1% chance to become true :frown:

[Olivario]

...I can keep my PS3 to play with PS3 games ;)...


The question is how long will your PS3 live. Sooner or later it will die, and when that happens all your PS3 games will be only useful as a coaster for a glass.

[MetaKraken]

If the PS3 dies, just get a replacement, so you can keep playing PS3 games. :P

[Darkdrium777]

Multi-CellBE processor?

[Olivario]

If the PS3 dies, just get a replacement, so you can keep playing PS3 games. :P

But if PS4 had compatibility with PS3 games you wouldn't need to spend a lot of money in buying another PS3 :g

[MetaKraken]

Still sticking with my PS3 either way. :P

[infoxicated]

I think the PS4 is four years away or more.

Sony develop hardware at great cost and ride out the storm until what they call the "harvest phase", which is when there is a critical mass of consoles in homes and a high enough attach ratio (games sold for each console) that they're making robust profit on the games.

It's taken longer to get to the harvest phase with the PS3 than originally anticipated, and they've ushered it on with multiple platform redesigns to bring down unit cost.

Compare that to the PS2, where late 2002 was deemed to be the start of the harvest phase for that console, having sold ridiculously well in Europe and the USA thanks to GTA III & GTA Vice City against almost no competition.

On the back of the PS2's success, Sony was able to commit to the R&D work for the PSP and PS3. However, the PS3 would eventually launch in a global economy on the brink of recession... and we all know how that turned out.

With the R&D costs of the Vita, the time between its launch and the harvest phase for that platform, and with the Japanese economy still reeling from that Earthquake in March, there's just no way a PS4 is imminent.

[greenymac]

Man Rob, your insight and experience is undeniable. I believe you are spot on except for being 4 years away.I'd venture 12-30 months from now it will be landing.

[leungbok]

I second Rob's thoughts on this. As a video game's player and a long time Sony's consoles user, i feel that Sony will not release a new generation of console if it's not to make a significant technological jump. I'm not sure that next generation of console will show something as spectacular as ps1, ps2 or ps3 did at their time. So ps3 can still last a bit ! ;)

[Colonel]

Well there's been all manner of rumours about Sony or Microsoft teasing us at E3 this year with details of the next generation (subsequently denied by Sony but not, to my knowledge, by Microsoft).

Anyway I read this excellent article today, which is kind of a pre-emptive requiem for the games console as we know it...
http://www.redbull.co.uk/cs/Satellite/en_UK/Article/Hello-PlayStation-4,-goodbye-games-consoles-021243147823716

[MyNameIsBom]

just the news i want to hear when i finally got a ps3 :rolleyes:
i highly doubt it that they will bring it out within this year though.. if they do then the price is just going to be ridiculious. same as when the PS3 first came out :P

[Colonel]

I wouldn't worry about it Bom, the general consensus is that we won't see a PS4 until 2013 at the earliest, probably later. It would be nice to have some information released at E3, although you can understand why they wouldn't, as it can only harm PS3 sales.

[JABBERJAW]

Guess on price: 2 models

299/349 cheap model

399 model ( also makes perfect toast)

Late 2014 Japanese release

[stin]

Looks awesome!! even my wife`s favourite drink!! possibly 2097!:hyper

That is almost cert I will get that in future if that exist.:bat

stevie:)

[Neoto_]

Hey no rush :hyper, haven't even yet owned ps3 for a half year. As Ps3 owns my pc 3:1, it was a easy choice to make, as a gamer.

ONT: no E2012?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/sonys-kaz-hirai-no-playstation-4-at-e3/?ncid=txtlnkusenga00000002

[amplificated]

technically it's now possible that you could have bought a pc for the same price that beats a ps3, although it wouldn't be all that nice... and it still wouldn't have wipeout HD ;p

[Neoto_]

Hehe older "technology" but so much fun to be explored, I prefered to return to the roots ;)

[Colonel]

Here's a round-up of the latest PS4 speculation, including some specs and a codename...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/mar/28/playstation-4-rumours

[Darkdrium777]

I hope those online restrictions are rumors and stay rumors. Because it's absolutely ridiculous.
If it does happen, I hope nobody buys those consoles. You're willingly giving up your rights if you are.
You own the console, no matter how much they tell you you are only purchasing a license to play the game on a system they say they still own even after you payed 500$ for it.

You own the hardware, you own the disc. You can do whatever the hell you want with them; and no one, especially corporations, should be able to tell you otherwise, or force you otherwise. Remember that.

[Colonel]

Well said DD :+

[mdhay]

Well, Sony, I don't think I'll buy another one of your products ever again, regardless of whether this goes through or not. This 2012 crap had better be about a Dev/ Pub crash.

[FirstDave]

If the ps4 is going to be like this then mine and sonys relationship will end with the ps3 and i will most likely move to pc gaming.No there wont be any HD to play but looking in the online rooms it looks like the game is dying a death now anyway.

Dave.

[Colonel]

It looks like the secondhand games row was just a silly rumuor, here's some good news on that issue:

http://www.gamezone.com/products/playstation-4/news/scea-president-would-oppose-ps4-s-pre-owned-ban

But, even worse, is the news relating to a recent patent application by Sony. If this ever comes into gaming on the PS4, I'm well and truly done. Check this out:

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2012/05/25/sony-ps4-to-have-game-freezing-adverts-welcome-to-gaming-hell/

[mdhay]

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/files/2012/05/wall-e.png

I need explain no more.

[MegaGeeza22]

I will probably give up gaming when the PS4 and the next generation of consoles release... gaming these days is just one disappointment after another and with these giant game companys taking over and rinsing our pockets its just ridiculous.
Gaming used to be fun but now its just continuous updates, broken games and unfinished games etc...
Most games these days intentionally leave bits out and then they sell them to us as an extra or bonus?? more like a bonus for ea or whoever. it annoys me most when they release these "extras" on the same day as the "full game" is released! and then the game will get patched and updated to fix bugs etc. WHY? PS2 games didnt require updates and patches... but thats probably down to the fact that they did there jobs properly and finished making games instead of releasing game breaking glitched up games for a quick profit in Q2 or whatever.
So... Sony, you can shove your PS4 up yourself lol and i hope that the PS4 dies a spectacular death along with all of your no profit.
Gaming companies are killing there own market but still they keep digging themselves deeper and as an "ex" sony fanboy im really enjoying watching sony fail just like they fail their customers.

TL;DR Sony fail

[Colonel]

A recent Wall Street Journal article points to a 2013 release, apparently Sony toyed with the idea of dropping the optical drive but changed their minds, due to broadband speeds not yet being up to the job:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303640104577436261084921778.html

[Colonel]

So you've probably heard that Sony have bought streaming service Gakai for $380m. Here's an interesting article at CVG, discussing what it might mean for Sony and the PS4...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/356204/features/sonys-cloud-revolution-why-gaikai-could-change-playstation-forever/?page=1#top_banner

[Colonel]

May be nothing, but the latest rumours point to a reveal of PS4 and new Xbox at or around E3...
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sony-exec-hints-at-possible-pre-e3-reveal-for-ps4/0109250

[Darkdrium777]

It's possible that one of the two may announce the system before E3, thus focusing the entire conference around the hardware and the games, and not a buildup to a reveal of the new system.

[Colonel]

Apparently Microsoft and Sony both held briefings for developers at CES. Here's a round up of the rumours that came out afterwards, some very exciting stuff in here... :D

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/18/xbox-720-ps4-rumours

EDIT - Found this article too, which has very detailed technical specs for each system, and apparent confirmation that PS4 will be named Omni...
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1769561/nextgen_huge_xbox_720_ps4_specs_report_by_insider. html

[Darkdrium777]

Heh. I don't believe this raytracing thing for the Xbox. This still isn't happening until Nvidia's Maxwell in 2014 at the earliest. Kepler is really powerful and well optimized but it's still running just a tech demo, and none of those consoles include Nvidia chipsets.

It's good to see that the PS4 is more traditional in design though. It means it will be much easier for devs to work with it.

[Darkdrium777]

Relevant discussion on Reddit. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/16tttt/orbis_unmasked_what_to_expect_from_the_nextgen/)

Also the linked Eurogamer article (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console).

[yawnstretch]

http://youtu.be/d-3GMHIgR-U

[blackwiggle]

Sony has posted this "Be the First To Know" at it's Official PlayStation forums.
https://secure.eu.playstation.com/meeting2013/

Sign up and get the news sent to you via email, straight from the horses mouth.

[Medusa]

From that video I glean the following details...
So the new playstation (PS4) will electrocute me?
Pass. ;)

[jaminjack]

Sony may be giving a few hints as to what's to come on February 20th
The symbols are 3D and the electric lighting wraps around the symbols. This could be a reference to Sonys immersive 3D projection. Sony is planing to upgrade their move camera which makes me think Leap Motion touch free 3D technology. This would make the controllers fully programable allowing you to design how you would like to interact changing the controllers shape and functions.
I'm not Clarivoint I'm just linking technology and lawsuits that's available and Sony has access to. Also Sonys pushing 4k. So that will be included

[blackwiggle]

I know Sony was pushing 4K at January's CES, and that was about all.

I don't know how the PS3 could be tied into any native 4K content.
I somehow doubt it could upscale to 4K with just a system update [most of the newest Yamaha HT amps can upscale to 4k]; in any case, unless your screen size is over 1.2m across the higher resolution would be barely perceivable over 1080p, it would be good for a PJ though.

Sony needs to spend money fixing the refresh rate of it's 1080p 3D TV's first, it's too slow ATM, and can make some content unplayable with bad ghosting, playing"Uncharted 3" in 3D is horrible, HD/FURY suffers from pretty bad ghosting as well ... play the same on a Panasonic 3D Plasma and it's nowhere as bad.
Sony doing 4K in 3D?, I haven't seen it, but if they can't get 1080p 3D right after 4 generations I'm not optimistic of them doing it with 4k.

Besides that, any native 4K content data size is going to be huge, it's highly unlikely that any 4k downloadable content will be made available from the store, even a short trailer would be around 10GB.
Same thing applies for discs, I don't think even the new double layer Bluray discs could hold the data of a 4k movie on one disc, so a higher capacity disc would be needed, and I'm guessing that would use a different wavelength laser to read it, or some different media altogether.

Now that's something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, and given Sony's statements of intent regarding releasing Sony owned titles shot in 4k for domestic release, could be a possibility.

[Colonel]

The 4k thing's not going to take off for years really is it? I mean most of the channels on my Sky + box aren't even HD. How much genuine 4k content will be available to watch, even 5 years from now? I probably won't be able to afford a 4k TV for a good few years anyway, and I'd imagine many people are the same. Just because 3D's fallen on its arse, can they really flog Ultra HD in its place that easliy?

[blackwiggle]

No they can't, and only a Idiot would think otherwise.

What Sony have planned had better be AMAZING!!!

Or this company is going down.

[Colonel]

Rumours that Sony will tease a racing game and a FPS at February 20th event...

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/rumor-sony-to-demo-ps4-racing-game-and-fps-on-february-20-2013026/

[infoxicated]

Speculation that a new console will launch with an FPS and a racing game is like speculating that Lady Gaga might wear a weird & revealing outfit in her next video.

I'm preparing my sock tethers just in case there's a rumour that there'll be a platform game!

[Colonel]

I phrased it badly of course, was in a rush on my lunch break. It was the story within the link (http://www.geek.com/articles/games/rumor-sony-to-demo-ps4-racing-game-and-fps-on-february-20-2013026/)that was the interesting bit, namely that Evolution Studios are rumoured to be developing a brand new IP, using developers from Bizarre Creations and Studio Liverpool... "which it hopes will develop into a series just like Gran Turismo or Forza."

That's pretty sweet news if it's true, there was also news recently that Microsoft are planning a brand new racing IP for release of the Xbox 720.

[TheConzio]

Exciting stuff, i really cant imagine what the PS4 would be like, when the PS3 is amazing itself.

[infoxicated]

I phrased it badly of course, was in a rush on my lunch break.
I wasn't having a go at you - just the media machine's fascination with reporting "rumour" as if they have stone cold facts, when the reality is they're stating the obvious - every console launches with a racing game, an FPS, and a cutesy platformer of some sort. :)

Evolution Studios are rumoured to be developing a brand new IP, using developers from Bizarre Creations and Studio Liverpool... "which it hopes will develop into a series just like Gran Turismo or Forza."
Interesting if true, because we were always told at Studio Liverpool that whatever game we made couldn't be a rival to Gran Turismo. After F1 finished we had probably the best racing engine in the games industry - refined AI, superb physics model, and a rendering pipeline that could stick 24 cars on screen at one time as well as a highly polished track. Nick Burcombe wanted to halve the number of cars and make a great racing game, but because we couldn't compete with Gran Turismo he came up with the idea of "racing in a disaster zone", which Evolution quickly poached for a sequel to Motorstorm, leaving us with nothing going on in the studio except WipEout.

I always wondered what the heck Sony were playing at - considering they had the most expensive studio in the UK (London) making a football game for years, which didn't even sell enough to break even unless they got it out five weeks before FIFA, didn't sell consoles because it wasn't sought after, and didn't hold a candle to Pro Evo or FIFA (and that was before FIFA got good). I reckon they were scared to let Studio Liverpool do a supercar based racing game because the end result might well have been embarrassing for Polyphony!

There must have been a big change in mindset if they're letting Evolution do a straight racer for PS4. I always loved their WRC games, but I can't be bothered with rubber banded stuff like Motorstorm so I haven't touched that series at all. It'll be interesting to see what unfolds. :)

[Darkdrium777]

Interesting if true, because we were always told at Studio Liverpool that whatever game we made couldn't be a rival to Gran TurismoPff, executives telling the creative they can't be creative. Sigh. :/
I'm sure that's why Patrice Désilet left Ubisoft here in Mtl (Getting bored of AC and such), and now with the THQ sale he's back with them. I wonder if he'll leave after his current project is done, again.

[Colonel]

Here's what appears to be the first photos of a PS4 controller, albeit an early prototype :):

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/touchpad-packing-prototype-of-ps4-controller-spotted-in-wild-1131394

[blackwiggle]

It looks like Sony might be reverting to a original old controller design type from around 1999 looking at that photo
That looks like a prototype of the first dual stick PS2 controller, wider, with sticks that aren't as high and with concave tops, plus obviously the new touch pad
I never have liked the sticks domed tops of what became the final design of the dualshock, it's just so easy for your thumb to slip off, especially in a hot climate when your hands can get sweaty.

Seeing that a touch pad might be added to this new controller, it raises a few questions.
How long will the controller last between recharges compared to a standard dualshock? I suppose it will depend if the touch screen is back-lighted or not
Seeing that the PS button is still seen, so access to the XMB would I imagine still be got to via that, what possible control commands will inputted via the touch pad, it's not exactly well placed for easy in game action is it?

I wonder, since Wipeout 2048 had a few of it's controls operated on the Vita's touch pad, that it might become a port for a PS4 title with a in game option to remap controls like HD/FURY.

[As I typed out the above, I sort of started to think that this photo is of a controller that was used to develop games for the Vita before the Vita actually physically existed, as I can't really see a reason for having a touch screen on a controller where it is placed so awkwardly]

[Hellfire_WZ]

A reminder about tonight's live stream, it begins at 11pm GMT

https://secure.eu.playstation.com/meeting2013/

[Rapier Racer]

Looking forward to this, it'll be treated like a blockbuster movie with munchies and such :) Can't wait to see wait to see what they have to say.

[Hellfire_WZ]

There's a few *coughsevencough* bottles of beer waiting in the shed, hope I'm not too battered to remember what they say! :P

[Knux_Chaotix]

Eagerly waiting the news ^_^ May well partake in the IGN drinking game lol

[Dark_Phantom_89]

After all this hype and announcements of announcements, it had better be the PS4. I can picture people's faces now if it turns out to be a new toaster or something! :p

[Hellfire_WZ]

Knux - You sure? One mention of Playstation Home and you'll need an ambulance!

DP - Well you won't be able to say the new hardware doesn't do stuff the old one doesn't ;)

[Knux_Chaotix]

Hellfire - I regret nothing!!! Lol. It all looked pretty damn good though.

[blackwiggle]

Well that really said little about what the PS4 Hardware wise will be a actual unit.

Only Tech spec revealed was that there was going to be 8 GB of RAM available.

Plus the PS4 will be using a separate Graphic card [it would have to be NVIDIA given the specs] and the basic run down on the PS4 will select which portion of it's available hardware will be allocated to graphics or other game/system needs.

[Colonel]

Bah, missed the event after all that. Looks like those new controllers will cost a fortune to replace ;)

[blackwiggle]

The "EVENT" was very, shall we say "Cagey" in it's actual revelation.

I suspect the PS4 to have NO DISC DRIVE , give the limited and closeted details that were give about the Hardware side of things.
It's using a X86 CPU and a NVidia Graphics card, they didn't say Nvidia as such, but alluded to Nvidia's CUDA graphic prossesing

Most of the HOO HAA went to the game makers that have bought into the PS4 system, with the usual game trailers with fantastic graphic [cut scenes] whuch tell you very little.

A Lot was said about CLOUD streaming, and PS4/VITA/PS3 compatibility

Yeah, OK, that's talk.

Get this new fangled software cloud streaming to work in a gaming environment then I'll be impressed.
It sounds very wishful thinking from the TECH side of things.

They are basically trying to set up a multi platform system [well a new version of the current PSN actually] via a unproven Bit Torrent like shareware software.

If it works fine, if the basic software get's cracked while fine tuning, don't be surprised.

Sony is basically walking down the Isle to a marriage as a groom with it's Fly open

[Colonel]

Can't imagine they'll do away with a Blu-Ray drive BW. Sony and Microsoft have said a number of times that the infrastructure just isn't there to go download only, especially in less developed countries. The games will be huge, downloading one could take days for some people.

For anybody like me who missed the presentation, here's a couple of interesting things I've found. Here's a round up in the telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/playstation/9884670/Sony-announces-PlayStation-4.html

And here's a video presentation of Evolution's new racer - Drive Club - http://uk.gamespot.com/drive-club/videos/drive-club-ps4-trailer-6404211/

[blackwiggle]

I think the PS4 and PS3 will stay for sale at the same time. much like the PS3 and PS2, different markets as time and usage differed.

Different beasts the PS4 and PS3.

The 8Gb of RAM of the PS4 will make it a lot more online gamer friendly.

I think the success of the PS4 will be determined by it's ability [or not] to play legacy Disc based games without the need to RE-purchase the same games via the PStore

[Rapier Racer]

IGN have had detailed specs from Sony up for some time. The PS4 has a Blu Ray disk drive, quite frankly at this point, it would be a very stupid and short sighted decision if they had decided otherwise.

Looking at things as they are just now I would expect most people to think that's its still to early for consoles to be diskless.

[stin]

I yet to see the console but joystick looks alright.

Seriously I was not planning to buy any ps4 in near future but my wife ordered me to start saving it up for new ps4 coming up!! :paperbag and looks like I will be finding overtime for that.

According to my son, he says to me, the price tag roughly about £500, is this true?

stevie:brickwall

[Colonel]

Well they've said nothing yet about price Stevie, they'll leave that as late as possible. But most rumours have been around the £300 mark. They certainly can't afford to price it too high like they did with the PS3, not in this economic climate.

[Hellfire_WZ]

The fact that there won't be any kind of backwards compatibility beyond cloud streaming should keep the price down too. Look how the PS3 price dropped when they took out the PS2 support.

[Colonel]

Yeah, I just hope they don't stiff us on the streaming thing, and make us pay to play PS3 games we've already bought.

[Darkdrium777]

It's using a X86 CPU and a NVidia Graphics card, they didn't say Nvidia as such, but alluded to Nvidia's CUDA graphic prossesingI want to specifically know where NVIDIA speculation comes from, because I've read in loads of places that it's something between a Radeon 7850-7870 in power, but definitely Radeon based (http://i.imgur.com/krFVrtE.png) (Official specs released by Sony). Could be a 6970, could be a 7970M.
The CPU is also apparently an 8 core AMD 1.6GHz Jaguar x86_64 processor.

It definitely has a blu-Ray drive.

A 7850 or so card is sufficient for most games at 1080p with maxed settings right now. Definitely not Metro 2033 if you were going to use it on a PC, but with specific console optimization I would think that would change. The "super charged" bullet point could mean it's overclocked or has special optimizations in the silicon itself (or it could mean nothing at all). Additionally, a 7850 currently costs something like 150-180$ for a consumer level option. In a $400 console or so, this seems to make sense price wise. Finally, the "next generation AMD" could mean it's definitely not a 6970 and an AMD GCN architecture (meaning 7000 series - Graphics Core Next), or again nothing at all.

[yawnstretch]

First playstation of any kind (including psp and vita) without a wipeout.

Killzone looked good

[vincoof]

They wrote "Radeon™ based graphics engine" for marketing purposes but technically it won't have a "Radeon graphics card" like you have in PCs. Instead it will have an APU (or more probably a SoC), the main difference being that AMD's CPU and GPU will not be "separated" by something like PCI-Express for Radeon cards so it allows closer interaction between CPU and GPU but also may suffer for memory bandwidth bottlenecks if badly handled. Overall it will be smaller, cheaper (cost-wise, not performance-wise), consumes less power (thus colder thus lives longer) than what a separated CPU and GPU would do. In other words, it's a good thing that they didn't opt for a Radeon card but the technology behind it (what they call "Radeon based graphics engine") is very good and it's definitely good news for the PS4. For sure it's *not* a Nvidia card, though. PS: I'm not telling that you all should buy an APU for your PC either =)

[blackwiggle]

I didn't type that out very well.

I should of said, "Alluded to the use of a Nvida like CUDA processing".
The ability to configure various uses of the GPU's power as each game developer deemed appropriate for their purposes, was also mentioned by several of the game makers that turned up to show support.

Anyway, it appears that it is a AMD R10XX GPU.

I've just been reading this article at arTechnica about comments made by Blake Jorgensen - Electronic Arts Chief Financial Officer, that he recently said he doesn't think the new consoles expected this year will be able to play software from their predecessors.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/ea-exec-backward-compatibility-unlikely-for-next-console-generation/

But, as dire as that article sounds, a more interesting article has appeared about the PS4.
Edited highlight from link below.
The PlayStation 4 will shift accounts away from consoles and instead link them to controllers. Consoles will essentially be blank slates that any account can sign in on. When you get a new controller, you’ll tie your account to that controller. Then, when a controller uses a console, it will automatically sign in that account to that console. This means that every controller that is using the console will be signed in at once, something the documents called “multi-user simultaneous logins.”

User accounts will, first of all, have access to your save data. This fixes the somewhat tedious issue of transferring your save file from one console to another. As soon as you connect your controller, you will have access to your save files, unlocked characters, and more. User accounts will also have access to your trophy data. So, for example, if you unlock a trophy during co-op play, all currently active accounts tied to all currently active controllers will gain the trophy.


Now, your local account is linked to your SEN account, which does require online authentication, but is also linked to all the “rights” to all of your games. So as long as the console that you are playing on can access the Internet, you can access all of your digitally downloadable content. Presumably, access to this content would just shut off as soon as your controller is no longer present. This would theoretically allow you to bring your controller to as many consoles as you like and put your content on as many consoles as you like while still providing easy copy protection that doesn’t require you to do more than simply stuff your controller into a backpack.

http://dispatches.cheatcc.com/dispatches/107#.USeer1cQFu1

[Darkdrium777]

They wrote "Radeon™ based graphics engine" for marketing purposes but technically it won't have a "Radeon graphics card" like you have in PCsYeah, sorry for the confusion. I know all of that already, I was more speaking of the relative power by comparing to the Pitcairn cards.

[Darkdrium777]

PDF for PS4. (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221a_e.pdf?%27)

Reiterates specifications, talks about other features including this one where the console would predict what game you are most likely to buy next and preload it so you can play it immediately after you've payed for it.

[Ace3000]

The PlayStation 4 will shift accounts away from consoles and instead link them to controllers. Consoles will essentially be blank slates that any account can sign in on. When you get a new controller, you’ll tie your account to that controller. Then, when a controller uses a console, it will automatically sign in that account to that console. This means that every controller that is using the console will be signed in at once, something the documents called “multi-user simultaneous logins.”

User accounts will, first of all, have access to your save data. This fixes the somewhat tedious issue of transferring your save file from one console to another. As soon as you connect your controller, you will have access to your save files, unlocked characters, and more. User accounts will also have access to your trophy data. So, for example, if you unlock a trophy during co-op play, all currently active accounts tied to all currently active controllers will gain the trophy.


Now, your local account is linked to your SEN account, which does require online authentication, but is also linked to all the “rights” to all of your games. So as long as the console that you are playing on can access the Internet, you can access all of your digitally downloadable content. Presumably, access to this content would just shut off as soon as your controller is no longer present. This would theoretically allow you to bring your controller to as many consoles as you like and put your content on as many consoles as you like while still providing easy copy protection that doesn’t require you to do more than simply stuff your controller into a backpack.

http://dispatches.cheatcc.com/dispatches/107#.USeer1cQFu1

That is actually pretty genius! Good on you Sony!

EDIT: Crap, I just thought. What will happen if the controller breaks? I hope you can retrieve the account and save info by just syncing another controller to your account.

[vincoof]

I've just been reading this article at arTechnica about comments made by Blake Jorgensen - Electronic Arts Chief Financial Officer, that he recently said he doesn't think the new consoles expected this year will be able to play software from their predecessors.
I don't remember exactly when, but it has already been confirmed that we will not be able to play PS3 games on the PS4. It is not clear why, maybe it's just to save money for the development of the PS4 (compatibility always has a cost), or it maybe a strategy to let PS3 and PS4 coexist for a while ? Anyway if you want to keep playing titles like WOHD you will need to keep your PS3 in your living room unless games are ported to the PS4. For instance Diablo III has been announced for PS3 and PS4 so you will have a choice. Not sure many games will do this, though. Quoting Tyrael from this very game: "Time will tell".

- - - Updated - - -


This would theoretically allow you to bring your controller to as many consoles as you like and put your content on as many consoles as you like while still providing easy copy protection that doesn’t require you to do more than simply stuff your controller into a backpack.
Writing "protection" and "backpack" in the same sentence looks like the author missed a point. I hope there will be some kind of password protection so that you can't just plug the controller in any PS4 and have access to everything (including PSN account) otherwise PS4 controller theft may have significant consequences. Not to mention - as Ace3000 mentioned - what happens if the controller breaks, though this problem exists today if your console breaks (which is IMHO less common but may still happen).

[Colonel]

I tell you what, you wouldn't throw your controller about in a rage when you lost a race.

[vincoof]

I tell you what, you wouldn't throw your controller about in a rage when you lost a race.

Solution to this => always win that race ;)

(but then you would put your hands in the air and the controller might slip out of your hands, oh my...)

[Darkdrium777]

It is not clear whyIt's because of the architecture change. The new CPU is x86_64, as in current PCs. The old CPU is PowerPC. Running PS3 games would require software emulation, which is an overhead the console cannot afford while running PS3 games themselves.
People also don't want a $700 PS4, which is what would happen if you put a CellBE RSX combo on the board. Not to mention cooling issues.

[blackwiggle]

I don't remember exactly when, but it has already been confirmed that we will not be able to play PS3 games on the PS4. It is not clear why, maybe it's just to save money for the development of the PS4 (compatibility always has a cost), or it maybe a strategy to let PS3 and PS4 coexist for a while ? Anyway if you want to keep playing titles like WOHD you will need to keep your PS3 in your living room unless games are ported to the PS4. For instance Diablo III has been announced for PS3 and PS4 so you will have a choice. Not sure many games will do this, though. Quoting Tyrael from this very game: "Time will tell".

- - - Updated - - -


Writing "protection" and "backpack" in the same sentence looks like the author missed a point. I hope there will be some kind of password protection so that you can't just plug the controller in any PS4 and have access to everything (including PSN account) otherwise PS4 controller theft may have significant consequences. Not to mention - as Ace3000 mentioned - what happens if the controller breaks, though this problem exists today if your console breaks (which is IMHO less common but may still happen).

I imagine the reason why PS3 games won't be playable on the PS4 is because of the vastly different way the PS3's emotion engine CPU works in comparison to the Intel based CPU in the PS4.
The way it distributes information off the disc to other sections for processing would be the main difference.
Writing games for a PS4 is going to be a lot easier for developers I imagine, there wouldn't be as much difference between a PS4/PC/Xbox game as there is a PS3/PC/Xbox.
It does sort of leave developers in a quandary though, do they plan development of a new game for the PS3 because of it's already large install base, or decide to ditch a PS3 version because of the added cost and just develop for the PS4.
I think if the PS4 takes off, and once a fairly large install based has been established, you will see support for the PS3 dropped at a alarming rate by developers, just because of the added cost of developing for the old system.

RE: controllers.
I imagine the touch pad will work like a built in keyboard, among other things [I know the intent is that it will be able to be used as a mouse/pointer]
You would need to type in a password to access your account, the controller would act as a verification key/dongle
As for a broken or lost controller, well you could do the same as you can now with the PS3, mate a new controller to your console and allocate it as main controller via a USB cable, this takes the old controller out of the equation as it is no longer registered to any console and would have to be re mated to a console again to operate, since it is no longer associated with your console/account it would be useless to anybody who stole it, even if they did have your accounts password.

[Darkdrium777]

the AMD based CPU in the PS4


as there is a PS3/PC/XboxPS3 and XBox 360 are PowerPC based. The difference is PS3 has one PowerPC dual-threaded main core and six SPEs (There are eight SPEs per Cell BE, one disabled for higher production yields and one reserved for system operations). The Xbox has three PowerPC dual-threaded cores. They are the same cores, from the same IBM architecture that they developed specifically for Cell. Microsoft just didn't want SPEs. To summarize, Xbox 360 and PS3 are similar being based on PowerPC, the PC is different being x86 based.
So the conclusion of platform abandonment will hit both consoles similarly, as both the PS4 and the next XBox (rumored) are going to use the same processors (AMD Jaguar x86) and will offer easier development (not to mention the increase in memory size will spur this abandonment further).

[Colonel]

Screenhots of the user interface over at Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/5987505/get-a-good-look-at-the-ps4-user-interface#13620617104683&{"type":"iframeUpdated","height":1843}

[Darkdrium777]

I was thinking to myself... With Windows 8 and now this, and the next Xbox probably also having tiles on the main UI... this is the concepts of art design:

The modern is squares.
The future is hexagons.
A shitload of Helvetica in either cases.

Now I'll be the first to admit that I don't like the rounded corners of stuff. Things like iOS, Nintendo's UI, etc... I think it looks a bit too cartoony. I wonder however if someone can come up with a different concept than the two outlined above?

[vincoof]

The PS4 UI may change more or less drastically before the console launches. UI has never been the strongest point on the PS3 so I guess Sony is widely opened to changes even if they started to show previews of their UI.

The XBOX 360 dashboard was strongly updated twice since its beginning and I don't recall anyone complaining about it, plus they used it for their new PC OS (aka Windows 8) so I'm pretty sure the current UI will be kept almost as is for their next console TBA.

[Darkdrium777]

You must not go on Reddit. People repost the Xbox blades and nostalgia all the time, or they keep complaining about the ad tiles on the new dashboard. Same when the PS4 UI was posted, people kept talking about the XMB and were sad that it was gone.

Also, the XMB won an Emmy in 2006, so it wasn't that terrible.

[vincoof]

No matter the change, you will always find nostalgic people. I for one doesn't like the ad-ready UI, just like in Windows 8 (which are very similar) but I know friends of mine who love that. Different flavors, different tastes.

[blackwiggle]

Well looking at the proposed PS4's GUI it looks very much like the new PStore.
Personally I don't need or want all that info [much of it useless] staring me in the face every time I turn my console on.
I'd hate to imagine how long it would take to download all the updated info for everybody on your friends list if your list is maxed out at 100 like mine.
And because a lot of the content and the way games will be accessed on the PS4 will mean people will most likely need to be connected online more than they do so now, if not most of the time, there will be a ton of this stuff generated and spewed out relentlessly 24/7.

It would be like your friends unintentionally spamming you every time you turned your console on.

I hope there are a LOT of options to turn if you want to be receiving these notifications off.

It makes you wonder with all this additional data being shot to and from everybody, will this effect the speed of the new PSN?, will a games online performance be effected?

It might be a case of Sony fixing a bottleneck in hardware and then throttle it again in the need to handle spurious data.

[vincoof]

It makes you wonder with all this additional data being shot to and from everybody, will this effect the speed of the new PSN?, will a games online performance be effected?
AFAIK there have always been servers dedicated to online gaming, so unless Sony sucks big time online gaming will not be affected by social networking.

[blackwiggle]

It's all very well having the severs working as well as the have done previously, but, looking at what is forthcoming, well, I think bandwidth will be stretched at least with all this Farcebook like info being generated , not so much by the users choice, but automatically.

That's the dilemma facing PS4 owners

[Rapier Racer]

Surely Sony has thought about that? I would expect them to looking at the effort they seem to be putting in with PS4.

I will miss the XMB though it's clean and easy to navigate, the latest Xbox update feels cluttered and messy with a lack of focus on games I hope the PS3 doesn't go that way.

[Darkdrium777]

They bought Gaikai and are partnering with UStream. I'm not that worried about bandwidth TBH, at least on the server side. This may push for faster internet in certain countries however, but that will take some time. The bandwidth problem would be on the user. :/

[blackwiggle]

This has been posted at the AVS forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460930/sony-ps4-will-support-4k-movie-downloads

In an interview with The Verge, Sony Electronics President Phil Molyneux said the recently announced PlayStation 4 will support Sony's 4K movie-download service, which is expected to go online this summer. Molyneux indicated that typical movie titles would be over 100GB in size, so taking advantage of 4K content will require a decent broadband connection and a high data limit. With file sizes that large, the quality promises to exceed anything available on Blu-ray today, but for many users a download of that size could take hours. Molyneux was non-committal about the future of Blu-ray, mentioning that the whole world is moving toward downloads.

The thing is that consumer 4K is not actually going to be the same 4K as used in cinemas.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451171/why-ultrahd-is-not-4k

You get a very minimal, if any picture quality advantage over Bluray on any 4K capable Plasma/LCD/LED screen that is less than 55-60cm wide.
You'd be better served by using any saved money buying a new, none 4K, OLED screen, the Black level is deeper than both the best Plasma and LCE/LED screens, plus the contrast levels are higher, they also use less power than both.
The only problem with OLED is that the manufacturers are still having trouble making them, so they will cost $$ for the short term [same thing happened with Plasma and LCD]

[stin]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/27/playstation-4-lead-looked-at-x86-chips-in-2007/

If it`s the right topic?, feel free to read. :)

stevie:)

[Colonel]

More technical information here:
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-03/28/ps4-hardware

[blackwiggle]

I was just doing a search through the archives to see who and when, first mention of a possible new Wipeout game was posted.

During my search I can across a link to Sony registering 3 different domain names for Wipeout Trinity.
http://whois.domaintools.com/wipeouttrinity.com

The theory proposed when this info first became known was that the 1st domain name was for what has become WO 2048, and that the 2nd was reserved for a PS4 WO title, and the 3rd reserved for a WO tablet based game.
[When you get thinking that two ex SL employees have since released a tablet game "Table Top Racing", so one can presume that to get their game out so soon after leaving SL, they were working on something along the same vein at SL before being made redundant ; and you factor in the now known fact of a imminent PS4 release ...... well, you got to start thinking that that might have been a very good call originally]

I looked at the dates, Sony has recently [2 weeks ago] updated the 2nd of these domain names :)

[AquaAura]

Wipeout won't be the same, if it even comes out...


Still trying to believe.

[blackwiggle]

There WILL be a new Wipeout for the PS4

[Hellfire_WZ]

You say that like it's a certainty. Updating a domain name means nothing, remember that Wipeout Trinity was a working title as far back as Pulse. It's a possibility that it may be used further down the line but it's not something to draw any cast-iron conclusions from, it's been a placeholder for years now. Also, Nick Burcombe left SL long before they closed, TTR is entirely Playrise's own creation.

The official line is still "we don't know".

[AquaAura]

I agree, we don't know what's happening and so far all that we really know solidly is that SL no longer exists and the PS4 will be coming out. There have been no official announcements and there is more of a chance we won't see Wipeout on the PS4 than a new Wipeout game.

[blackwiggle]

Believe

[MegaGeeza22]

No Wipeout, no purchase... We should make a stand as a community and boycott ps4 lol, we could do some serious damage to sonys early profit margin and show them that dumping a gaming community and a top studio is not on, because thats basically what they have done as far as im aware. Im happy with using a pc now because it does everything and it can be upgraded and personalised to my own needs. Im fed up of the consoles limited capabilities... I have not played my ps3 for months, i always go straight to the pc lol. However, if sony decide to bring wipeout to the next generation i will probably consider getting a ps4 in the distant future.

[Hellfire_WZ]

... We should make a stand as a community and boycott ps4 lol, we could do some serious damage to sonys early profit margin

That would be the equivalent of a mouse trying to stop a freight train by farting at it.

What we need to do is support any project that members of the Wipeout team are currently involved in, whether that is Sawfly, Playrise, Evolution, etc. Those are the people that made Wipeout what it was, they deserve our ongoing support. Whether the series is resurrected later is something no one can say right now, but let's at least do what we can in the meantime for them.

[ID_7of9]

I'll get a ps4 anyway. I believe what i see, but i hope, Blackwiggle is right. I hate to play on Vita. I still hope for 2048 on ps4, no new wipeout needed. :)

[AquaAura]

Believe

Believe it or not, us believing in a new Wipeout won't actually do anything. It won't bring SL back. All believing will do is set you up for that disappointment when it doesn't come out.

Gaming is moving on. Them shutting down SL was probably not a good idea at all, but they probably had thier (albeit crappy) reasons. We are just a small community, just look at how many people play games like CoD and GT5.

I'm going to say it again, it is highly unlikely it won't come out. It may be resurrected in the future, but the PS4 probably will not see another.

[Darkdrium777]

I
Believeyou don't know what you're talking about. As you can see, I am also done leaving you clues telling you that I know that you don't know.

Trinity was a PSP codename, nothing more. It was never relevant to the PS3, Vita, PS4 or anything else. Guess what a third PSP game would have been.

It might be used in the future, no one knows. The domain was just probably renewed as part of a global domain name renewal process for domains that expired soon. That doesn't mean anything either, except that Sony has that domain in their pocket should they ever decide to do something with it.

[blackwiggle]

I'm as tech headed as you .... but I try to make things happen.

I'm quite a bit Older, but not as disillusioned as both you and Charlie.

Positive thinking, CAN ! ... ON MASS ... MAKE a difference!

How?

Simple.

It gives the impetus to people that read the posts, that YOU might not seem as are still even interested in WO, or currently powerless to act, to make something "HAPPEN"

These CAN be "Game Changing posts"

Believe

[AquaAura]

I'm quite a bit Older, but not as disillusioned as both you and Charlie.

Disillusioned? I don't think so. I'm being realistic. You're disillusioned. WipEout is more or less a dead franchise. If someone doesn't buy the name to the game another will not be made.


Positive thinking, CAN ! ... ON MASS ... MAKE a difference!

On mass? Hmm. Thoughts don't change much. Sony do not read these pages. Although former SL employees might, to be honest, they can't do much to persuade their companies to make another. Although some went on to make their own, the chances are still small.

How?

Simple.

It gives the impetus to people that read the posts...

Funny how I don't think it's that simple getting Sony to read this.


YOU might not seem as are still even interested in WO

Why am I on a lovely, brilliantly made forum dedicated to WipEout? I still love the game, I'm just being realistic about what's currently happening with it and SL.


currently powerless to act, to make something "HAPPEN"

I do feel quite powerless. If I could do something to change the path of WipEout I would.


These CAN be "Game Changing posts"

They CAN, not ARE. They aren't certain to be and most likely won't be.

I'm still trying to say that it's highly unlikely. I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just so unlikely.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Disillusioned? I merely communicate facts. As I have done since I joined this place eleven years ago. At no point have I said that he series is definitely dead and buried because there are no cast-iron facts to support this. But neither are there any to support the theory that it will definitely be making a return. When Ami left the CM job, the stance from Sony was still unknown. Now there is no one left who has access to this information, all we can do is wait and see. But the chances of seeing or hearing anything in the near future are very, very remote.

Anyway, this has gone way too far off topic now and I am not happy with the tone that is coming across. I deal with enough of this sh*t in my job without having to come on here and do more of it. Continue and I will simply lock the thread.

[Knux_Chaotix]

Whats happened? We are really all that is left of Wipeout for now, arguing and childish name calling wont get us anywhere.

People feel differently on the very touchy subject of Wipeout on the PS4, which there has been zero confirmation of and to the same token no down and out right denial of it. We're in the dark. Plain and simple.

We're supposed to be a community. In times like this we should be sticking together, now more than ever. I'm not looking to start anything, I'm just putting a thought out there. We need to respect everyone and the variety of opinion here. If we don't, this place falls apart and then whats left?

Stick together guys. Friends In Speed.

[AquaAura]

Well I'm gonna admit, I was thick and didn't think about that at all. You're right, we have to stick together and I'm sorry to everyone who I caused trouble to.



Sorry.

[blackwiggle]

Sorry about the perceived mischief / name calling DARK, it wasn't meant to be malicious.

Back on topic.

Sony is promoting the PS4 / VITA as the ultimate compatible combo.

So , logically thinking.
If the Vita can play old PSone / PS2 and PS3 titles [ also via crossplay], would it be wrong to assume that since the PS4 is going to be the closest to a PC yet, that some sort of "Official" Emulation software will be part of the initial PS4 OS?
If not initially, via a future update.
OR via a optionally "paid for update" bought from the PStore.

I mean it's not that the PS4 hasn't got the grunt to do this, it would be more of how many people say they want it.

Maybe finally we could have ALL the Wipeouts on the "ONE" console

[Aeralys]

If the PS3 library, and therefore WOHD does become available on PS4, I'm hoping that the game can benefit from the social networking enhancements on the console.

For example, it might give us the opportunity to have an always open WipeoutZone chat group on the console, much like the Ozone events, but this time hopefully not limited to 16 participants.
With this we can use the share button to record and send the 10-15 second clips to new players and veterans regarding barrel rolls, racing lines, shortcuts, highlights and all the best CONTENDER ELIMINATED as we play.

So basically the things we do now but integrated on the console, and possibly more accessible as a result.

[blackwiggle]

Could the PS4 do WOHD 1080P online play Emulation?
I don't know.
The two engines seem vastly different to me at the moment which gives me doubts.
[The vastly expanded RAM of the PS4 should, in theory at least make it possible]

I guess we shall see what happens.

[AquaAura]

That would really be good, and even better if online on WOHD worked with PS3 and PS4. I don't know much about technology so uh... Tell me if that's definitely possible and I'm an idiot or not...

[Aeralys]

In theory it sounds possible, or it's more about how well the emulator is optimised with the PS4's Hardware to emulate PS3 games and their optimisation of PS3 hardware, or some mumbo jumbo. RAM size probably isn't a problem. But I don't know about the CPU and GPU.

While its specs are inferior, the Wii U requires a dedicated Wii Mode to play Wii games rather than an integrated one. I'm guessing this was also because of the hardware differences and lack of power to emulate it seamlessly.
To maintain the original's performance, perhaps the PS4 will have to go into Gaikai Mode or something when streaming PS3 games, and in turn lose some of the PS4's key features.

[blackwiggle]

I'd happily lose any of the PS4's supposabily "Key Features" to have the availability of all the games playable from the one console.

It's quite easy to use external processing to even out video quality across the various WO games.

I can do it just by selections via the various video input/output's of my surround amp.

Either choose to Upscale the video [by degree's] or not

[TheConzio]

I just hope WipEout WILL be on the PS4, because I feel as if that hardly no one out there plays it anymore, and we are all that is left... If it DOES happen, then the spirit of WipEout will be lit in the outside world again, and if it doesn't, well, that's pretty much "The End"...

[blackwiggle]

Playstation Universe posted this article about what it see's might be a teaser easter egg by Naughty Dog, hinting at the PS4's release date hidden in the trailer for The Last Of Us.
http://www.psu.com/a019124/PS4-release-date-hinted-at-in-The-Last-Of-Us-screenshot



If you look at the screen shot taken, you will see a evacuation date given for 8pm 17th Oct 2013.

[TheConzio]

Interesting stuff....

[blackwiggle]

By the way, I went and played online today, you came online at the same time.
You would of seen that I was playing WOHD, surprised you didn't join me:nod

Initially there weren't many people online [At one stage NONE], but then "Whammo" 10-12 online separate , mostly USA.

I did go online earlier and "Tried" to race 2 French guys.
The lag was beyond awful, I was getting missile tracking OK to a craft I couldn't see in game.

[TheConzio]

Yesterday? Sorry i didn't notice you, I would've played with you but I had a friend wanting me to play COD with him...

Haha, gotta hate lag :P

[ID_7of9]

The lag was beyond awful...

The lag is beyond awful all the time! Since patch 2.5. :(

[Saltir3Warri0r]

If the PS4 has the capability to allow backwards compatibility, then I'll happily buy it. Most games released at the same time as a console tend to be crap and bog standard (only some!). I'd like to be able to play games such as WipEout HD until the better games start to come out. Not to say I'll stop playing PS3 games completely. I could never part with HD. It's just too epic!

[Darkdrium777]

If the PS4 has the capability to allow backwards compatibilityIt won't (http://www.gamesreviews.com/news/03/ps4-backwards-compatibility-explained-why-sony-ditched-offline-bc-and-why-the-cloud-is-the-future/), not in the traditional out of the box sense. Cloud emulation/streaming possibly, but it will be a game by game basis.

[Saltir3Warri0r]

That's kinda saddening in a sense, but that doesn't mean it'll be a bad console. So long as it isn't too overrated, overpriced etc.

[JFthebestJan]

bad news! PS4 will require you to subscribe to PS+, if you want online multiplayer. hopefully PS3 wont require us to subscribe too.

[Knux_Chaotix]

I have no issues paying for PS+, I already do. It's 100% worth it for all the stuff you can get on PS+

[Darkdrium777]

I'm 100% sure it will not be retroactive to the PS3.

The 5$/mo price seems quite fair IMO considering you get the whole PS+ package and the entire gaming network/community they are creating on it.
They ****ing killed it with the used games/always on thing as well as the price. PS4 used games instruction video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA).

Man, I wonder how Microsoft will fare this time around, it hasn't been going well for them so far.

I still don't know if I'll personally be back on Playstation though. There's a few games that interest me but I'm not sure beyond that point.

[GekkoP]

Since I only play Wipeout and I couldn't care less about PS Plus, I'll wait long before buying PS4. I'm not what you can call a gamer, I mainly use my PS3 for blurays and PS3 Media Server. If I have to pay to play online, I think I won't buy it.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, will Plus be mandatory for PS3 owners then?

[Darkdrium777]

No it will not be. If you want to play single player you can do so without paying for PSPlus. You also do not need to have it connected to the internet to play single player games. Finally, you do not need to pay for PSPlus to gain access to applications such as Netflix, Amazon Video, and so on.

Here is a press release PDF (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130611a_e.pdf). Price of the controller and camera is included inside.

[GekkoP]

I get that, but what if I want to play Wipeout HD online from my PS3? Since Plus will be mandatory to play online on PS4, I was wondering if the same thing will happen to PS3.

[Aeralys]

Oh mann... that Conference was the best thing ever.

[vincoof]

bad news! PS4 will require you to subscribe to PS+, if you want online multiplayer. hopefully PS3 wont require us to subscribe too.

I don't know the PSN business model (my bad, I know...) but it looks like they're going to do exactly what Microsoft already does with its XBOX 360 and MS doesn't seem to have much trouble from the gaming community. With that said I don't know what business model will be chosen for the XBOX ONE, it would be ironic if MS makes it free (I doubt they will, but who knows), Sony and MS would switch their places x)

[GekkoP]

Let's hope Sony will keep PS3 online gaming free, then.

[Rapier Racer]

I already have Plus it's great value for money in my opinion. There are only a handful of games I play online anyway so the loss to me wouldn't be too great if I couldn't play online. Considering the investment they probably had to make so the PSN is capable of delivering these new services, most notably the old game streaming, a small fee is not unreasonable it needs to be paid for somehow. Its not like you need Plus just to watch Netflix, eh Microsoft?

[Hellfire_WZ]

Looking forward to watching the highlights tonight. Judging by the comments and news stories it sounds like Microsoft are sporting about 12 newly ripped arseholes!

[Knux_Chaotix]

PS4 Pre ordered ^_^ Woop woop!!!

[AquaAura]

Well it looks like the Xbox One is already £80 or $80 (can't remember) more expensive than the PS4.

Source: The Evening Standard. Not the best source in the world but oh well. Probably true.

[JFthebestJan]

i definitively won't get PS+ just to play online, so no PS4 for me. the rest PS+ has to offer is of no interest to me :(

did you recognised the way sony choose to hide the information of requiring PS+? they took the crowds attention away from that fact by simply bashing MS for their privacy policy. then bla bla bla... PS+ gives you bla bla bla ... "PS+ is required to play online multiplayer" that was the last point on the bottom of the shown sheet onscreen.

[Darkdrium777]

They didn't hide it, they put it on the slide and talked about it. How is that hiding it?

Some answers to some questions about the PS4 (http://imgur.com/a/zSN57).
PS4 HDD: 500GB and user replaceable.
PS4 is region free.
Apps like Netflix, Hulu aren't behind paywall.
PS3 online remains free.

Regarding DRM (like online pass), it is up to publishers but Sony will not be doing online pass for PS4. Source (http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/11/4419476/playstation-4-third-party-publishers-can-dictate-their-own-drm-terms). So basically the same as it is now for PS3.

[JFthebestJan]

maybe 'hide' wasn't the correct word to use, forgive me im german and english isn't my native speak. ;)
but lets use the phrase: they choose to put gloss over it by bashing MS beforehand. meekly followed by the announcement (PS+ required...)

better this?

[Darkdrium777]

Well I won't lie to you and say that it didn't make me take pause when I saw it on the slide, but considering how the network is going to be growing in features and scope, as well as the other bonuses like games and games discounts that PS+ provides, I think it's a fair deal still. They are going to be doing much more than just providing you with TCP/IP function this time around.

[JFthebestJan]

yeah, you're probably right there. someone has to pay for their investments. but they really should'nt force you to buy the whole thing. if they would sell online multiplayer as a stand alone thingy for less money (i.e.15$/anno instead of 50$), it would be much easier for me to accept it.

[blackwiggle]

I think Sony has planned this out really well for themselves.
Include the need for + subscription to play online games with the PS4, the now huge added revenue stream that will come in from this decision lets them undercut the the Xbox one for US$100.

I don't particularly like the need for + subscription to run a PS4, but the price of a yearly + subscription is pretty small..... at the moment.
When you compare the PS4 package to the travesty of the Xbox One package, I can see people taking it up in droves [Sony must be laughing so hard at Microsoft's multi faceted self made disaster their sides would aching]
Word has it that Microsoft is offering big $$ to small game developers to not show their PS4 versions of their games at E3, only the Xbox One versions, that's how desperate they have become]

What worries me though is once sales of the PS4 have reached a certain number, and the percentages of new + subscriptions reaches a number that in all likelihood Sony has planned for, then the price of the + subscription could [probably will] suddenly rise, as they would basically have all those PS4 owners locked in.

The longer they leave it the more likely people will have quite a bit of their data stored in Sony's cloud storage services, they will pay up just so they can access it.

Personally, as much as I like the PS4, there are no games for it that really make me want to go out and buy one straight away.
None of the new Facebook like interactive features interest me either, it must be a generation thing. ;)

But if they announced that WO 2048 was being ported to the PS4 [or any previously unavailable WO], I would be knocking old ladies down and pushing prams out of my way in my rush to get one

[GekkoP]

yeah, you're probably right there. someone has to pay for their investments. but they really should'nt force you to buy the whole thing. if they would sell online multiplayer as a stand alone thingy for less money (i.e.15$/anno instead of 50$), it would be much easier for me to accept it.

Precisely what I think.

[Darkdrium777]

Include the need for + subscription to play online games with the PS4, the now huge added revenue stream that will come in from this decision lets them undercut the the Xbox one for US$100.I don't see it that way, I think they can easily sell this for $400 without needing as much of a revenue stream as that. The system is quite a bit simpler than the XBox (no eSRAM, which can complicate production yields and increase cost of the SoC) and isn't bundled with a stupid camera. Don't forget that the Xbox One will always ship with a Kinect, and that Kinect costs something too.


What worries me though is once sales of the PS4 have reached a certain number, and the percentages of new + subscriptions reaches a number that in all likelihood Sony has planned for, then the price of the + subscription could [probably will] suddenly rise, as they would basically have all those PS4 owners locked in.Or they could produce a new tier of service. It's definitely legitimate though, because Microsoft did it once. However XBox Live can be found discounted quite often if you shop around a little, we'll see if the same happens for PS+. It could not happen as well, since they are apparently focusing on consumer trust and being nice (what they say, we'll see I guess).

[vincoof]

Word has it that Microsoft is offering big $$ to small game developers to not show their PS4 versions of their games at E3, only the Xbox One versions, that's how desperate they have become]
I don't see why Microsoft would be desperate since the current generation is doing way better for Microsoft than Sony and since both next-gen consoles have pros and cons that we can hardly judge until the consoles are out... remember both Sony and MS have few months left to change their mind if something they announced is extremely unpopular. (Thank the social networks for giving them an incredible opportunity to get a lot of feedback and to get it quickly).

[Colonel]

Here's an article in The Independent comparing the two consoles:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/ps4-vs-xbox-one-who-comes-out-better-as-sony-and-microsoft-go-headtohead-at-e3-games-expo-2013-8654333.html

PS4's nailed it for me, Microsoft have dropped the ball at every turn. I'll be getting a PS4 with my next phone contract, March 2014. Looking forward to it already :)

[blackwiggle]

I don't see why Microsoft would be desperate since the current generation is doing way better for Microsoft than Sony and since both next-gen consoles have pros and cons that we can hardly judge until the consoles are out... remember both Sony and MS have few months left to change their mind if something they announced is extremely unpopular. (Thank the social networks for giving them an incredible opportunity to get a lot of feedback and to get it quickly).

Well look at it this way.
Say you are a small independent games maker, and you have made a game that will run on both the Xbox one and the PS4.
Microsoft comes to you just before E3 and says to you "We will give you X amount of $$ if you only show your game on the Xbox One while at E3"
The game maker says OK I'll do it, give me the money.

Now picture the hoard of people from all around the world at E3, they see this game and might really like it but unless they specifically grab a hold of one of the staff of the game makers company and ask them if there will be a PS4 version, they might be under the impression that it is a Xbox exclusive, as that's the only version they see on display.

Now imagine this happening at say 10 to 15 stands at E3, some not wise to what's going on behind the scenes might think "I wonder why a lot of these game aren't being shown on a PS4"?
This might be enough to swing a decision for people to buy a Xbox one instead of a PS4, which is exactly what Microsoft would of hoped for.

Mind you, the Xbox One's design and package looks so crappy compared to the PS4, they would have to be majorly impressive games to swing a sale away from the PS4.

The amount of new people signing up to the official Sony Playstation forums over the last couple of days asking questions about all things Playstation has been large, I've never seen anything like it before, most are posting that they are Xbox owners that will not be buying a Xbox One, they intend to buy a PS4.

[Darkdrium777]

I don't think Microsoft has been talking to many independent developers. Even if they did this I doubt it would have a large long term impact, mainly due to the fact that people can cross-reference each other. Since E3 is a press event right now (no longer open to the public) most of everyone will get their story straight before publishing it.

[vincoof]

Now imagine this happening at say 10 to 15 stands at E3, some not wise to what's going on behind the scenes might think "I wonder why a lot of these game aren't being shown on a PS4"?
This might be enough to swing a decision for people to buy a Xbox one instead of a PS4, which is exactly what Microsoft would of hoped for.
Sure, I get the point. But that looks like commercial strategy to me. An unfair one and maybe not a legit one (but I'm no lawyer so I'm not sure), but that has nothing to do with desperation. And that's if we consider MS did this, which we don't know.

What if all these developers joined the XBOX wave because e.g. MS provides more end/or better tools to help them making games for the console? What if the MS licensing is more flexible or even lower? What if the MS developer support is faster and better?

Remember Microsoft is operating on the x86 stage for a (very) long time, and I wouldn't be surprised that they are one step ahead because the next hardware is heavily x86-oriented.

That doesn't mean all these games will not be released for the PS4, I guess most of these games will be on the PS4 someday, and maybe they will even be released the same day as the XBOX version. I mean, if what players' concerns about XBOX keep on overwhelming the Internet, I doubt many video game producer would release their titles exclusively for the XBOX, especially considering how easy it should be to port a game from one platform to another now that hardware architectures are very close.

And at last, but not least, while the E3 is a very popular event, the vast majority of people who will buy their console by the end of the year won't have attended to the E3 or even heard about it. Not to mention things can change in the next few months and I guess very less people will have chosen their side by the end of the E3. I for one look forward to scouring the next moves on both sides before making my own decision.

[blackwiggle]

Yeah, well the whole think doesn't really effect a gamer at this stage anyway as neither console is available to purchase yet.
It was just reported that that's what Microsoft was up to behind the scenes.
If any game makers took up the offer I wouldn't know.

Xboxs games over the years have always seemed more FPS orientated to me, apart from Forza racing I think it's called, has any Xbox game ever made me want to rush out and get it.[I still have never bothered getting it]
I bought a Xbox 360 Elite the same day I bought my first BC FAT 60GB PS3 back in Nov 2007, with a special edition version of HALO 3 [I haven't even finished the first level], the PS3 died and was eventually retired for a Slim, and the Xbox has sat gathering dust never even being powered up for at least 4 years.

Playstation games have just been more suited to my taste in gaming, so that's what I've chosen to be my primary gaming machine.

I think the same could be said for a lot of gamers, both for the Playstation and the Xbox, you tend to fall into favoring one consoles games over another.
The same will most likely still be the fact with the new Xbox & PS4, but what Xbox has done with it's ONE console seems to have alienated a lot of it fan base

Slightly OT:
I noticed Wipeout 2048 was a special price as a download at the PStore.
I'm just wondering that since a lot of PSP games were playable as downloadable versions on the PS3.
Maybe Wipeout 2048 will be a playable VITA title on a PS4?
And since you can get PURE & PULSE, plus HD/FURY via Crossplay running on a VITA, could the ultimate Wipeout gaming machine just have been launched?

[JFthebestJan]

sony already announced they will make PS4 games playable on VITA via streaming, eventually they'll make VITA games playable on PS4 too?! that would be a system seller to me, 2048/PURE/PULSE on BIG screen, yeah. adding the possibility to play your VITA games with the dualshock wouldn't be a bad idea either ;)

[Colonel]

That would be an absolute winner, 2048 ported to PS4, running at 1080p / 60FPS and using a Dualshock 4.

[AquaAura]

I have a question; how is WipEout HD Fury playable on the vita? Because if it can be then don't we basically also get that on PS4?

[Darkdrium777]

It's ported, the code is adapted for the processor and architecture type as well as supported libraries. Game assets are also modified so that the framerate is consistent on the new platform. It's quite a bit of work. With no SL anymore, I don't see how it will happen unfortunately, but I'm sure they would've been happy to do it were they still there.

[Hellfire_WZ]

So we now have release dates. 15th November in the US, and 29th November in Europe. Bit annoyed with the two week gap, but at least we've got something concrete now.

There's also price drops on the Vita and the entry-level PS3

[JFthebestJan]

and Sony announced a partnership with Unity, so SSGX could be possible on PS4

[Darkdrium777]

You'd have to look at the details of this partnership. I suppose it would involve purchasing a Unity Pro license, which while the guys are trying to do I don't know how far off they are. With self publishing on the PS4, it could happen, but I doubt they could charge for the game.
It is an interesting possibility though. I wouldn't be sad if it happened.

[blackwiggle]

It's being reported that the PS4 controller will work with PC's.
http://levelsave.com/playstation-4s-dualshock-4-will-reportedly-work-computers/

Not much of a video, but better than nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKwL4lrDmA0

[KronicReaper]

I don't care who wins the next console wars for the next generation, if the games sell well the systems will sell well too. Gamers want game consoles not new hardware like Xbox TV, Skype on the Xbox One, or watching sports on Xbox Live. That's is why the PS4 will win the gaming war and the Xbox One will win the entrainment war.

[vincoof]

That’s fair criticism to say that gamers want games but we don’t know if it is possible to have a console which is great for gaming and something else at the same time. If such console exists, why would you want the designers to remove the non-gaming features?

[blackwiggle]

It's gotten to the stage where each console is so similar in performance and features, it's doesn't really matter which one you chose.
Almost all AAA titles are made cross platform, so it's usually only niche games for a particular console and backward compatibility that determine which one you end up buying.

Sony's long term plan, and one would think Microsoft's gaming division would be thinking along the same lines, is to move out of console production and into movie/music/TV and gaming distribution over multiple platforms via the internet.
Sony has already signed agreements with major TV production and distribution companies just a few months ago.
It's pretty much gunning for the cable networks, and saying "Cable is dead" internet distribution is the way forward

Sony has dipped it's toe into the water with the PS3/PSP and what you can download and play from them, this will widen with the PS4/VITA/Experia Phones.
I would think the VITA, or handheld gaming consoles will eventually morph into some form of gaming phone tablets.
It would depend on future low power needy Intel chip design, and advanced battery design as to exactly what will end up offered in the future.

Sony has pretty much cast this long term plan in stone, when it told it's share holders that it would not sell off it's music and movie rights when times got tough for it financially, even though there was quite a big push from major stake holders for them to do so.

The technology is there to do it, but the needed fast optical internet infrastructure isn't.

And I really can't see something like a future 7G mobile service being able to take hardwired internet's place, it would be just to expensive for all concerned.
So it is a waiting game

[KronicReaper]

This story is not about the PS4, its about the PS3 wasn't have a GPU in the console. Video comes from to ReviewTechUSA channel on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&feature=player_detailpage&v=j9yOjB95gb0

[KronicReaper]

PS4 may not support USB or existing Bluetooth headsets. Video comes from to ReviewTechUSA channel on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&v=PcqdNTIfTeE&feature=player_detailpage

[blackwiggle]

The PS4 will support the current Sony Playstation bluetooth headsets, I already asked Sony and they confirmed it.
[I only bought my headset to play HD with, just as I got it the voice chat broke in the game and was never fixed, yet another gaming accessory gathering dust :rolleyes: ]

If the PS4 supports both the PSEye and the new stereographic PS4 cameras is unclear.
I suppose since all games using the EYE were PS3 games, and those won't be able to be played on the PS4 until the Geki stream starts it's a moot point.
Probably the PS4 camera will have software that will make it compatible with MOVE/EYE games anyway.

I mean I bought a MOVE/EYE combo pack on release day and think I've used it [waved it around in frustration more like it :brickwall] twice, and both times for 30 minutes or less, so I'll be in no hurry to replace something I already don't use.

[KronicReaper]

UK customer gets free PS4 due to ShopTo Gaffe. Video comes from to ReviewTechUSA channel on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QjYxXuZxuw&list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&feature=player_detailpage

[AGSys]

I just hope the PS4 supports the old PS2 Singstar mics. I'm not gonna go full out and buy like $200 headsets just for it.

[KronicReaper]

PS4 might have red line of death. Video comes from to ReviewTechUSA channel on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&feature=player_detailpage&v=5O5s-pSPKRQ

[KronicReaper]

Major retailers are cancelling the PS4 preorders. Video comes from to ReviewTechUSA channel on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&feature=player_detailpage&v=H3fXteRkKk8

[Rapier Racer]

Seriously? American retailers.. it's like they put a 5 year old child in charge.

[KronicReaper]

Some very bad news on the Xbox One and PS4 folks. Launch disasters imminent on both next gen consoles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&feature=player_detailpage&v=U6h9l5Gb5hE

[AGSys]

ReviewTechUSA's videos are among the most unreliable. He's basically a controversialist and always bashes anything that's not remotely PC related. I despise his videos and his points of views because of this. He never mentions anything positive about consoles or console games, he's this sort of PC elitist and I don't appreciate that at all. If he's bringing us this supposed "news", he should be neutral but he's not. He goes the FOX News route where he tries to cook up arguments and whatnot.

He's not fair in any way whatsoever. Even Sony's Yoshida acknowledged that what he was saying was absolutely untrue, and he didn't only say that for the PS4, so he didn't imply any bias in his statement either. ReviewTechUSA didn't even mention his sources (that he claims to be VERY reliable) and when someone says this, it's so hard to believe unless their names are stated right in front of the viewers. If he said anything about his sources being 'fairly' or kinda reliable and didn't name them, there would be some way we could give him the benefit of the doubt, since even he acknowledged that the sources aren't that reliable. But this video man, horrible. Just horrible.

[dreadofmondays]

Yeah, you should get any knid of news from several sources to make sure you get the clearest picture of what's actually happening. Don't trust just one guy.

[KronicReaper]

I do go to Icy Rhythms channel to get other game and tech related news sometimes, but I do agree with you both that ReviewTechUSA is a PC elitist thinking that game consoles are for console fanboys. Sorry to make ppl a little mad and upset with this uploaded vid from ReviewTechUSA.

[rdmx]

PS4 FAQ: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/30/ps4-the-ultimate-faq-north-america/

Will I be able to play MP3s on PS4?

No


That's ****.


Will I be able to play background music while I play PS4 games?
Yes, the Music Unlimited streaming service will allow you to listen to music while you play PS4 games. A subscription to Music Unlimited is required.

Oh. Bad luck if you listen to music not on their service right? Was quite optimistic about the PS4, but **** like this disappoints me.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Looks like the Share button will be a bit restricted as well. You cannot export saved footage to an external device so no editing on PC, and direct YouTube uploading will not be ready for launch - only Facebook, Twitch and uStream. There is also the possibility for developers to lock out the Share button during certain parts of a game, presumably to avoid spoilers and such. However, external recorders like the HD-PVR2 will work normally.

EDIT: Also, Shuhei Yoshida has responded to the reaction over the lack of audio CD and mp3 support and has discussed it with the PS4 dev team.

[Colonel]

I should hope so too. I use my PS3 for listening to MP3s more than I play games on it, and I'm buggered if I'm signing up to some music streaming service that I know for a fact won't have some of the music I already own. Just let me play my music how I want FFS.

EDIT - Overlooked the CD issue as well. PS1 - 1995, plays Audio CDs. PS4 - 2013, can't play Audio CDs. Marvellous. I'm not getting one until they resolve this, this is awful.

EDIT - Will PS4 support media servers or DLNA support in order to stream videos or movies from a home PC?
The PS4 system does not support client functionality for media servers.

Another thing I do loads with the PS3, download films on the PC then stream them straight to the telly. I understand that some features will be rolled out at a later date, and that the PS4 will develop hugely over its lifespan, as did the PS3. But how on Earth can it not play CDs?

[TheConzio]

If only SL didn't get shut down. They were supposably working on a new WipEout title that was said to be "dramatically different".

[Cipher]

yup, Darren Douglas (concept artist) dubbed it Wipeout Street in lots of his artwork
very cool stuff *admires*
http://darren-douglas.cghub.com/images/page:1/
(scroll through the pages, it's a little bit spread out)

as for the PS4, not liking it too much from what i'm hearing, having to pay to go online being the big set off for me, but hearing that it wont play MP3s nor CDs?! WTF sony?!
Guess i'll have to stick to my compy again...

Cipher

[JFthebestJan]

money, money, money...
this next generation is all about subscriptions here and there. wrong way, sony!

[AGSys]

The main thing that put me off was the paid online thing. As it is right now, it's difficult to pay for internet fees in NZ but 60 bucks a year? Nahhhhh. Also the MP3 thing isn't that big of a deal to me personally because I rely on my PSP for that (yep not an iPod, I still use my PSP :P) but finding out now is just abysmal. It all seemed so great a few months back. Now that the actual real side of it all is coming into vision, ain't lookin' that good for either next gen console.

[Colonel]

I had a think about this last night and I've come to the conclusion that I won't be getting a PS4, not in its current format. I've been looking forward to it for years as well, hence starting this thread back in 2011. But this FAQ has exposed a 3 pronged attack on the way people listen to music and watch videos in their own home, and I'm just not having it. "No CDs, no MP3s, no home media servers, stream all of your music and video from us or you're sh*t out of luck."

It's a desparate attempt to further the interests of Sony as a copyright owner across all forms of media. They sat back whilst Microsoft shot themselves in the foot, then lapped it up with their whole "Yeah share games dudes, we're all one big hippy commune over here, not like evil old Microsoft." Well guess what, they are exactly like Microsoft, they just weren't so stupid to admit it from the off.

I hope this machine bloody sinks.

[JFthebestJan]

obviously M$ + $ony wants to milk the cow even more. early adaptors are f***ed in the ass BIG time these days, they've become the new beta testers. the only way to change their minds, is to not buy any stuff from them anymore. if their sales wont be big enough, they'll have to change their strategies.

it's the first time in history that a previous console generation is capable of doing more things then the "next" generation....

[blackwiggle]

The PS4 is equivalent in price as each comparable previous PS was at release.

Most, if not all PS4 purchasers will already have equipment that can reproduce MP3's [ A far lesser audio quality level than what will become the norm, [I've always hated MP3, even at 320 .. it's crap]

Just upgrade the bitrate of the music that you have stored.
If it's 128 or 240 MP3 dump it, I think 320MP3 is crap as well, but it's closer to FLAC than WAV, so I suppose it is a last resort.
320MP3 should be the lowest bitrate anybody should consider for personal mobile use.
As for Home replay.
FLAC /WAVE or nothing ...... only a Ghetto Blaster carried around in a refugee camp would be playing lesser quality now days.

PS: Anybody that doesn't know / find of a way/ program that sorts out any DRM music problems with today's / tomorrows gear, needs to take about 15 minutes of their time Google searching for a answer.
It REALLY is that easy.

[Rupang]

Wired published a teardown of the PS4 for those who wanted to see what's inside them.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/11/playstation4-teardown-video/

[JFthebestJan]

everyone who doesn't want to buy a ps4 like me, can now try to win 1 on partypoker. they have a freeroll everyday of november.

[AGSys]

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/11/12/sony-was-caught-off-guard-by-reaction-to-ps4-mp3dlna-exclusion-was-focusing-on-gaming-features/

Okay, that's cool. At least they didn't take as long as Microsoft to reply and make changes.

[Cipher]

"we were focusing on gaming features" lol, such an excuse for; we actually wanted to suck more money out of you, but okay ..
Think we can make sony change their minds on pay 2 play online as well? :p

Cipher

[AGSys]

Haha Cipher, that was exactly what I thought as well. Sony isn't that stupid to make changes they knew were going to affect people but they tried to slowly slip away from it. Didn't work I guess! And if they carried over things from the PS3, why not this one thing? But hey, they gotta make up viable excuses to keep in the clear right?

[KronicReaper]

Is the PS3 is getting an update that shows friends that you have requested that has a PS4 if that person with a PS4 is online with a PS4? I just wanted to know.

[Colonel]

Sony isn't that stupid to make changes they knew were going to affect people but they tried to slowly slip away from it. Didn't work I guess! And if they carried over things from the PS3, why not this one thing? But hey, they gotta make up viable excuses to keep in the clear right?

Yeah that's what I thought too, but I'd rather they fixed it and made up a bullsh*t excuse, rather than just buried their heads in the sand. I can't remember, does it play DVDs?

[Hellfire_WZ]

Shuhei Yoshida has confirmed over 1 million day one sales for the PS4 in the US alone, already making it the biggest console launch of all time. Now that's impressive.

[Colonel]

Yeah I was just reading that on the FT website - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1480e760-4f85-11e3-b06e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2kvJ8eIIB

[blackwiggle]

Beware!
Already reports of Blue Screen of Death with the PS4.
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/INFO-Blinking-Blue-Light-PS4-Issues/td-p/42154071

http://www.cnet.com.au/ps4-buyers-reporting-blue-light-of-death-out-of-the-box-339345981.htm?feed=rss

[KronicReaper]

Sony should never release the PS4 with these issues, if the xbox one has issues like the PS4 is having, people will be very angry and blaming both Microsoft and Sony for defected next gen consoles.

[Darkdrium777]

It sold one million in a day and there are a few thousand bad reviews across the web. You expect every electronic ever made to be manufactured perfectly? Maybe you should find an alternate universe to live in.
Users with working PS4s will be busy playing the games. Users with defective units will be busy making as much noise as possible about it across all forms of communication (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, forums, etc).
The 0.4% defect rate quoted by Sony implies 4000 bad consoles out of a million. Normal electronic DOA rate is around 1%, implying 10000.
Idiots are claiming the failure rate is as high as 50% (Because Amazon Reviews!!!), you are an idiot if you think the failure rate is that bad.

[TeabagMcFrag]

It sold one million in a day and there are a few thousand bad reviews across the web. You expect every electronic ever made to be manufactured perfectly? Maybe you should find an alternate universe to live in.
Users with working PS4s will be busy playing the games. Users with defective units will be busy making as much noise as possible about it across all forms of communication (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, forums, etc).
The 0.4% defect rate quoted by Sony implies 4000 bad consoles out of a million. Normal electronic DOA rate is around 1%, implying 10000.
Idiots are claiming the failure rate is as high as 50% (Because Amazon Reviews!!!), you are an idiot if you think the failure rate is that bad.

Some of the defective PS4s may have something to do with a Foxconn intern claiming that they sabotaged PS4s being produced because of horrible work conditions, and use of 14 and 15 year olds as interns, which is illegal in China(where Foxconn are based), as the minimum working age is 16 here.

[Darkdrium777]

http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=ukgISn3P2nQ&start_at=9&end_at=12

[Cipher]

you can't believe everything you hear from companies either
0.4% is a number probably lower than the actual one, damage control they call it :p
Although i do agree with you, the only reason you hear so much about it is because the ones affected make all the noise and the ones who aren't are can't be arsed writing reviews ;)

Cipher

[Darkdrium777]

I know, all I'm saying is let's take that number for a sec and see how many consoles it amounts to. Have you seen 4000 individual bad reports? Let's say you've seen more, have you seen enough for some of the wildly speculative numbers such as 12.5%, 25%, 50% to start sounding true?

It's too early to say what the early failure rate is. Failure rate is inverse bell curve usually, with lots of DOA or early failures, very little throughout lifetime and more and more failures at EOL. We are hardly a week in the biggest console launch in history of console gaming. Just too early.

[vincoof]

Idiots are claiming the failure rate is as high as 50% (Because Amazon Reviews!!!), you are an idiot if you think the failure rate is that bad.
Social websites such as forums or product reviews tend to be too much of an echo chamber sometimes. If someone says "red" many will follow and reply "me too" but that doesn’t mean there is more red than green or any other color. Actually I’m even taking part of the echo chamber thing when writing this message ;)

[TheConzio]

If Sony is going to ditch WipEout, I'm going to ditch Sony. Who else is getting the Xbox One? Call me a big emotional head but I'm doing as I wish.

[AGSys]

One step behind what you're doing. I'm just simply not going to get a PS4, until, and only until a new WipEout comes out. Or for that matter any other game I just gotta get like the next GTA. Other than that, the PS4 is kinda outta my mind. I would have considered getting either console anyway if they had a better launch line up. Nothing of this new generation interests me in the least.

[JABBERJAW]

None of the ps4s died at the two game stops I have looked at, and the one I got is just fine, I took it out of the wrapping paper to check it out to make sure.

It must have been an early bad batch

[JFthebestJan]

@JABBERJAW: tell us more, do some videos ;)
ps: you got every sony console, right?

[JABBERJAW]

It's a Christmas present and wrapped back up, sorry. I had gotten him madden, which looked nice, and skylanders. I'm going to pick him up Maybe the next killzone. Yes, every sony console, and others as well.

[Darkdrium777]

If Sony is going to ditch WipEout, I'm going to ditch Sony. Who else is getting the Xbox One?Enjoy your worseBox. The TV gimmick is guaranteed to not work as well as in the US due to your location. Can't wait to see how Kinect handles the Australian accent. The rest as you know doesn't provide as great of graphical fidelity.

PM me with your budget if you want to build a PC. Or just wait for more games to come out for either system. Both of them have no games right now that are really worth it.

Sony has killed WipEout and I really really dislike that decision, but it doesn't mean I'm not watching what they're doing. That being said, nothing's really caught my attention yet.

Example: still not getting a Vita because WipEout's the only thing on it that I want. Would've got a VitaTV (because it's cheap and I wouldn't carry a Vita around anyways) but LOL region restricted availability and 2048 is not compatible anyways.

[blackwiggle]

Just get a + subscription, download the free VITA games that are with the "Instant Games Collection" in the hope that VITA TV has a world release.
You won't even need to own a VITA.
You could just save them to a memory card via your PS3 or PC's MEDIA GO! software, then place it in a VITA TV mini console.
You are covering all future possibilities with the least outlay.

[Knux_Chaotix]

Well tonights the night. I head down to GAME in the next 20 minutes to queue for my PS4. Will give you all a proper verdict in the morning!! Im looking forward to it!!!

[Hellfire_WZ]

Will have mine after work tomorrow :)

[TeabagMcFrag]

I'll be waiting at least a year. There's still some good PS3 titles out next year, plus I'm waiting for better games and the bugs to be fixed. Also, I hope to have some more money saved up by then.

[vincoof]

I'll be waiting at least a year. There's still some good PS3 titles out next year, plus I'm waiting for better games and the bugs to be fixed. Also, I hope to have some more money saved up by then.
And to let Sony iron out some issues ;)

[Knux_Chaotix]

Verdict so far - Absolutely beautiful!!! Nice easy to use interface, not to mention a little more detailed. Flows well, nice and organised, its all easy to find. It also allows you to see who is online and who is playing what console. Killzone plays beautifully, graphics and game play so far are top quality and makes good use of the DS4s features such as the touch pad. The console itself is very quiet and a nice size, not too big and not too small. The light strip on the console is aestheticly pleasing ^_^ Now the Dualshock 4... Possibly the best controller I've ever used. Slightly bigger that its predecessor, it still feels like it fits right in my hands. The analogue sticks feel like theres more grip on them when you use them, buttons are all reachable, the touch pad is easily accessible and simple to use. The headphone jack in the pad is amazingly convenient and the sound quality that you get from it is spot on. Again, the light bar inside the DS4 is epic ^_^, it changes as you play, in Killzone it reflects health as far as I can tell lol. All in all Im pretty damn happy I got my PS4 ^_^

[Rapier Racer]

All good so far I second all of the above. Also I can't believe how well the Vita Remote Play works tried it with Killzone so smooth and flawless, finally RP has delivered! DS4 easily the best controller Sony has made to date

[docfo4r]

Sounds like some good stuff. Am uncertain if I should rather get a PS4 or a new PC but only next year anyways. Am looking forward to the new Mirrors Edge and Watchdogs and tbh I suck at 1st and 3rd person "shooters" on consoles, I rather prefer precise/fast turning by mouse control. Sooooooo I dunno what to do :D But wanna test how the controller feels in my local store [once they have a 'test-it-yourself' PS4 mounted there].

[Cipher]

i'm most likely getting the DS4, but to use it with the PS3, i am the same as you doc, horrible aim with a controller xD, wipeout's therefor pretty much the only thing i play on my PS3 so there's no point in getting a PS4 for me ^^

Cipher

[JFthebestJan]

@cipher: believe it or not, but i was thinking the same. just get that dualshock4 to play ps3 with it....BUT i was smart and googled a bit and i found out the ds4 won't support rumble when used with a ps3 or a pc :( so i won't get that piece of tech for now

[AGSys]

Rumble as in vibration?

[DDD113]

I hope to get the DS4 as well. Easier barrel rolls = success! :D

[Cipher]

nooooooooooooo, you just crushed ma dreams >.>
are you sure of that? i need the rumble so bad >.<

Cipher

[AGSys]

Okaaay, so it is vibration. I hate that in WipEout! Every little bump or scratch you make, you feel it! That's one of the most annoying things ever when in an intense race. xP

[JFthebestJan]

here is the link that says no rumble with ps3 and pc. it's a german pc forum from the biggest pc magazine in germany
http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/konsolen/sony-playstation-4/news-artikel/playstation_4,481,3030172.html

@AGSys: you can disable the rumble feature in the main menu (XMB) from the ps3.

[Cipher]

Fuuuuuuuu, that article says motion sensor doesn't work either, i need that for my pitch dangit
Right… guess i'll give up on the DS4 then :(
Bummer…
Thx for the info JF

@AGSys lol i need that, it confirms that i'm hitting a wall or hit a speed pad or what not

Cipher

[Knux_Chaotix]

Well, I tested it out on the PS3 today. Tested Wipeout... I may be converting. I use the old school method of pitch control so that dosnt take too much from me anyways. I dont mind the lack of rumble either. I will say the DS4 gives for a far more precise race and had made barrel rolling 100 times easier. I really like how it works.

[DDD113]

Thanks for the update, Knux, I think I will be getting one of these. Rumble is cool, but it's something I can live without, as well as motion sensor.

[Cipher]

hmmmmm is de ps4 reverse compatible with wipeout hd? and ifit is, do you still need playstation plus to go online with ps3 games?
and thx for the heads up knux

Cipher

[DDD113]

If you're referring to the disc, then no, there are no disc compatibilities. Otherwise, I have no idea with the PSN and such.

[Knux_Chaotix]

PS4 is NOT backwards comparable and you cannot download PS3 titles to the PS4, the consoles architecture is too different. Cell processor is vastly different from the PS4s AMD. Think the most we can hope for is the possibility of streaming it via the Cloud at a later date.

[DDD113]

Now Knux, I've heard a lot of things about that cloud thing... please explain to me what exactly you mean by "streaming it from the cloud?"

[Knux_Chaotix]

Im not 100% sure how it works, but Im assuming its the same logic you'd apply to video streaming but with games instead. The processing is not done from the console itself, its done from the other side, being the Cloud. That would mean if your connection went down, the game would either freeze or stop. If I find anything else I'll let you know.

[DDD113]

Streaming from the other side... that sounds mysterious and dark! :P Anyway, thx for the info, I don't know if Sony even knows exactly how it's going to work, but thanks for what you know.

[docfo4r]

I guess I won't get a PS4 unless Sony somehow somewhen comes up with a new WipEout title for it. Other games I look forward to are mainly shooters and I need my mouse for that. So I'm rather buying a PC + the fact that I can upgrate the hardware in a few years might be the better choice for me.

But on the other side, I heavily played on the PS1 at a friends place, I had a PS2 and am still owning my PS3. Not getting the PS4 feels like breaking the law :D

[DrMannevond]

Sony bought Gaikai, which was OnLive's main competitor, so if it ever comes to PS4 it would be something similar to OnLive.

It will probably be useless for Wipeout anyway. Since the game is running on a machine god-knows-where, it takes too much time from you pushing a button until the game responds (Push button > Send message to remote game-server over internet > Remote server processes button-push > Remote server returns result > The game on your screen reacts).

[Knux_Chaotix]

I done a video about the PS4, been putting it together for the last couple of days. Go take a look, its a little on the long side but theres a good bit in it. Including testing the DS4 with the PS3, Wipeout specifically. So yeah, if you dont mind swearing and over excited shouting go check it out ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeimRoMxW2E&feature=youtu.be

[docfo4r]

Cool Knux :) Will check it out when I get back home :)

[vincoof]

Again, the light bar inside the DS4 is epic ^_^
It also epically drains the battery of your controller…


hmmmmm is de ps4 reverse compatible with wipeout hd? and ifit is, do you still need playstation plus to go online with ps3 games?
No compatibility for now. Cloud gaming (using Gaikai) will allow running PS3 games when Sony feels the system is ready. Good question about the PSPlus necessity since PS4 needs PSPlus to play online while PS3 doesn’t. I haven’t read anything about it, though. It would be funny if e.g. you can play PS3’s FIFA 14 online for free on your PS4 while you would have to pay to play online with PS4’s FIFA 14.


PS4 is NOT backwards comparable and you cannot download PS3 titles to the PS4, the consoles architecture is too different. Cell processor is vastly different from the PS4s AMD.
Plus, the PS3 “CPU” can be more powerful than the PS4 CPU in some cases. So even if Sony wanted to emulate PS3 games on the PS4 system, they couldn’t realistically guarantee it.


Sony bought Gaikai, which was OnLive's main competitor, so if it ever comes to PS4 it would be something similar to OnLive.

It will probably be useless for Wipeout anyway. Since the game is running on a machine god-knows-where, it takes too much time from you pushing a button until the game responds.
^This

Many games could run more or less smoothly via Cloud gaming but WipEout is not one of them. Even if you play on the slower leagues you *will* notice a significant delay. The game already has a delay today:
1-one delay between what buttons you push and when the console catches your input (wireless is slower but even the cable is not immediate),
2-one delay between the time the game gets your input and the the time it computes the new position of your vehicle (and speed, and angle, and weapons, etc.),
3-one delay between the time the console sends the video signal and the time your screen decides to display it.
All of these delays added together are generally acceptable but they are on the edge on what your eye and your brain can tolerate before you notice it. With Cloud gaming you replace the second point by these:
2a- the delay between the time the game gets your input and the time it sends it to Sony’s servers,
2b- the delay between the time the server gets your input and the time it computes the new position/etc of your vehicle,
2c- the time necessary for the server to compress audio and video,
2d- the time to send the image and sound over the Internet,
2e- the time necessary for your PS4 to uncompress audio and video.
So unless Sony’s server are extremely powerful AND you are very close to Sony’s server AND your Internet connection is very fast and stable, I doubt you will have a decent gaming experience with WipEout.

Another thing to point out is the video compression. Some of you who watch a lot of videos on YouTube have certainly noticed that scenes that move very fast are badly compressed. I won’t go into the technical details but this is a limitation of current video algorithms (and I’m fairly sure Gaikai also suffers from the same problem). So a game like WipEout which constantly moves at a blazing speed will be horribly compressed using Gaikai. So even if the input lag is fast enough to play nicely you will have crappy graphics which will make pictures ugly and disturbing.

Bottom line, cloud gaming is good for turn-based video games and/or games that don’t need to be very responsive, which clearly is not the kind of games WipEout is.

[AGSys]

I heard people are getting banned on XBL for excessive swearing and inappropriate language. And also for swearing on Skype calls with friends and stuff. Yeah apparently the Kinect listens to your convos and reports them to Microsoft and they check up what you say or something to that effect. So I guess free speech is a goner on there. I've noticed, there aren't nearly as many irritating pre teens on PSN funnily enough, seeing as it used to be free. Do you guys think Sony will start doing something to this extent in the future?

[vincoof]

Microsoft could have done that before. Kinect just made it easier. In the end it all depends on what you find acceptable in a conversation. Moderation has always taken place in our world. You can not swear on the street, nor you can swear on the forums over the Internet. Why would it be allowed to swear using VoIP ?

As for Sony, it will be a bit more complicated since the PS systems don’t have a microphone by default (read as: unlike XBO which provides Kinect to everyone) but if they have the chance to do something similar they will do it. AFAIK today you can already get your PSN account banned for inappropriate text messages. Using audio is simply the next step in this regard.

[AGSys]

EDIT: http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?9399-XB1-Discussion&p=230543#post230543

I don't want to go too off topic. Also, I heard about this a few months ago; that the game-trading DRM was making a sneaky return. Anyone know about this? I can't seem to find out anything else.

[Colonel]

Does anybody have any news regarding MP3 / DVD / USB functionality? My phone contract is up in a couple of months, and this issue will be the main factor in whether I use my new contract to get a PS4 or a badass phone.

[blackwiggle]

Colonel you might as well consider the PS4 as a upgraded PS2.
That's ATM..... it has little to no relevance to what sort of internet speed / usage you have ATM.
The PS4 has NO MP3/ video playing ability as does the PS3.
It's strictly a "Gaming Console"

If and when Sony's game streaming starts [as bought from Geneki ] that might change.
This is the most likely way of backward compatibility for the PS4.

BUT.
Judging from trials done in Japan regarding streaming ..... well basically, it was a None Event.
The Japanese kids just ignored it in droves.

Which in effect does NOT bade well for the PS4 in the long run, as all multimedia usage [like the PS3 has] have basically been dropped on the PS4.

Sony has bet the house on streaming ALL content, be it games / music / video, eventually being the future.[Dreaming]

Computer says NO! COUGH!

I'm in no hurry to buy one.
I could of today, but ....meh ... why bother, there are NO PS4 games I want to play, and reports from those I know that have PS4's say they are pretty much sitting idle, as the first release games are either glitch ridden or a "Rushed Product", ultimately a less than brilliant gaming experience.

There is a rather more insidious way Sony is trying to manipulate gamers.
The fact that Sony will only "Officially" support HD's of 750GB MAX.
If you have installed a HD larger than that and suddenly have you console brick on you, Sony support will ask, "What size HD have you installed?",.... 1TB [insert larger HD], sorry Sony System Support does not support HD's over 750GB.

[You can ONLY find this as a "Recommended MAX HD size" at Sony's PS sites worldwide], NOWHERE does it state that Sony will not support larger HD's.
Something people only find out when their console dies.

Secondly, since the games are of a larger size for the PS4 than the PS3, and all PS4 games NEED to be loaded ONTO the HD before you play them, then obviously the PS4's HD is going to get filled very quickly.
Now the PS4 has two USB 3 ports.
It would be quite easy for Sony to allow a external USB3 HD to be registered [Like a PSP or VITA device ] to be only usable via the PS4 it was registered to, and allow extra storage.
But NO, Sony has vetoed that.

What are the options?
Delete your game to create free HD space?
Can't see that being popular

So the only obvious conclusion to that state of affairs is, that SONY intend to create a "Cloud Storage" ... obviously at a paid rate.

Yeah, Good luck with that Sony.

[Colonel]

All good points there BW. Aside from how I feel Sony have behaved regarding MP3 / DVD / home media servers, there are practicle implications to consider. I don't want to have to keep swapping HDMI leads, ethernet cables etc. every time I want to listen to some of my music or watch a DVD.

If these issues were resolved before April, I would probably get a PS4 and just use the PS3 for playing HD. But at the moment it feels like I'd be buying a product that is inferior in so many ways. Plus the only game I'm really bothered about is Driveclub, so I'm buying a £350 console for one game.

I got my PS3 with a phone contract just under four years ago, and it has been worth its weight in gold. Just for the 1500 odd hours of HD it's been more than worth it. But we also use it every day without fail to watch movies and listen to music, with the TV it's the centre of our living room.

Two years ago I used my contract to get a Vita. That's not been anywhere near as useful, in fact I've barely touched it to be honest. I played 2048 for a while, I've got two or three other games on it, but I find myself wondering why I didn't just get a really good phone instead.

Now that my next contract is coming up, I really don't want to mess it up. I don't like Sony's "pay us to do what you did for free before" attitude to movies and music, and baring in mind the considerable backlash from customers when they announced it, what's the bloody hold up? MP3 / DVD / USB functionality should have been in the first firmware update, but several months later nothing, and no official news of when it will happen.

They seem to be deliberately dragging their heels to make people sign up to their streaming services.

[JustinCase]

I plan to get the PS4 but rather in a few months. Right now there's just one game I want to play, that is Killzone. I just don't see the point to get a new console just to play one game. Besides what really pisses me off is that the PS4 is not backwards compatible and that it doesn't support audio CDs. I know, CDs are a thing of the past but in my living room I wanna have just one device to handle all my multimedia needs and now I should keep the PS3 and get a PS4... Don't see the point to keep my old console just to play CDs and old games. Shame on you Sony :(. The PS4 is great but definitely could be even better.

[blackwiggle]

I use my PS3 much the same as you do Colonel.
All my HDMI stuff is plugged into my surround amp, with one HDMI going to the TV and the other to the Projector.
Before I had this surround amp, I used to use a small HDMI switch unit that are easily bought at any electronics store.

Sony have always said that the PS4 was a addition to the PS3, I don't think you will be seeing MP3/DVD/ USB functionality ever coming to the PS4.
The only PS4 system updates you will see would be to fix things like being able to see when your friends were last signed into the PSN, and drivers for the new Virtual Reality headset Sony is bringing out, and the addition of Sony NOW, which is what Sony is calling it's streaming service.

I built and used a HTPC many years ago, it was a Pentium 4 and rather noisy in summer with the fans running full blast, so I ended removing it from the lounge room and using it for other duties.
Now days, with Intels new Haswell 4th gen i series chips, they need much less power and so less heat = less fan noise [they have been optimized to need less power for Laptop use]
Intel's integrated graphics, means you don't need a graphic card to play video, [A mid range i5 cpu can easily playback 4k video at 60hz]
So it's now very easy to have a quiet and powerful HTPC sitting in your lounge room that could have unlimited storage, play back any sort of media file you throw at it, and operate it via a Android or Apple app on your phone.
In fact pretty much any mid range i5 based laptop could do the job [just run from the mains all the time], then add a external USB3 HD and your choice of media playback software [PowerDVD for BluRay playback] and your done.

Just the very things the PS4 can't do, and deliberately designed that way, tell you what direction Sony is heading.

Streaming of all Music/Video content at a inferior quality level to what is otherwise available [Discs], through a convoluted and bug ridden and slow purchase and acquisition system, at the vastly inflated prices of the PStore and not giving you the ability to add storage to keep your purchases at hand, leaving you only one option, that of charging you to store your purchases in the cloud.
People just want to be able to just press a button and watch / Play something, not having to log on, sign in to a streaming service, wait for the stream to commence and watch at a lower resolution than you get from terrestrial free to air TV.
That's assuming that your internet connection is up to it, and you have a big enough download limit to use the service in the first place.

There is innovation and adaptation.
Sony used to be all about innovation, it's lost that, and the original PS was probably it last truly great product.
Becoming so huge, Sony have become a Juggernaut, and the result is that once it is steered in one direction, it can't quickly adapt.
Buying Gaikai streaming might of seemed like a good idea for Sony at the time, as a way to get into a possible new way of delivering media/ gaming content.
The problem is that I can't really see people wanting it, let alone paying for it, when today's tech savvy kids, who Sony are aiming this stuff at, can freely download the same content plus more from a Bit Torrent site, hours after it is first show elsewhere in the world.
The only people that are probably worried are the Pay TV providers, if only for the PS4's install base.

Here is a interesting bit of info from a Music Industry perspective.
Basically, the only places where streaming has taken off is where the download market didn't get started.
http://musicindustryblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/how-downloads-will-determine-the-future-of-streaming/