I've played it

[yawnstretch]

So I had about 15 minutes play-time yesterday and played through 4 different tracks.

Sony staff were super strict about photography so I'll just describe my experience in words!

The vita feels nice. The analogue sticks are a little sensitive/delicate but they have a nice rubber coating and I was able to race intensively with no problems at all. The screen appears to be about twice the psp's size but it's not of course - the extra details afforded by its much higher resolution certainly help.

The framerate seems solid and smooth but when there was a lot of action on screen the distant foreground resolution drops. It's a new kind of sacrifice but considering what you're getting in exchange it's probably worth it.

Couple of niggles:
Ships still bottom out even if you pull the nose up on jumps.
The missiles look like they're from HD which doesn't match the timeline for 2048 (they have that red twirly particle effect)
Barrel rolls

Sadly I couldn't hear the music or sound effects clearly because of background noise at Gamescom.

Level design is awesome. Ships look great. The game really feels like it is set at an early time period - just with more detail than we've seen in most other wipeout games. The scenery is incredibly dense with some nice layering effects when transparent tracks twist and swoop under themselves slightly (this is most visible in a track called Sol). This means you can anticipate a dip in the track unlike a solid track where you would have to reach the dip to see what's next.

The touchscreen stuff actually works much better in practice than I anticipated. You can very quickly choose your game mode by jabbing at the icons on the screen like an iPhone. The touchscreen was very fast and responsive.

It feels like a new wipeout. Yes, some features have carried over from the last few iterations but the level design really feels fresh. It doesn't have the "rehash" feeling of many of the last few recycled tracks in pulse, pure and HD. I think the tracks are what makes this game shine.

I'm very tempted to import a Japanese PS Vita but I'm concerned about the location based limitations an language/region locks etc.

I had a decent session and got a good feel and a taste for the game. Sadly this means I'll be craving 2048 for the next while with no relief!! :(

[UB3R~JKP]

Lucky man! :+


I wish I had a shot like you but since you are now CRAVING to play it...maybe that's a better thing. :p

[Perforu]

Can you tell something more about the game physics? It's pretty much rethorical question as from the videos it seems the physics are exactly as in Wipeout HD (glued to the track, no flying and no sliding through the turns- does the contact with a 'wall' reduce your speed as in all recent wipeouts? I hoped that they would at least come back to 2097/XL style in this particular physics feature). Damn, since the day WO HD came out I was hoping that next WO game will return to the roots (2097 / XL).. sigh. Am I the only one who feels bad about it?

[yawnstretch]

The default controls of the demo console were bizarre.

Right trigger was accelerate, left trigger was airbrake. Square was air brake. X was fire, circle consume and triangle was change view. This meant I wasted about 4 minutes on my first track trying to figure out what to do. It was a distraction but I over came it thankfully because of two things.

I tend to avoid airbrakes in all wipeout games. I consider them a form of weakness only to be used as a last resort :P Secondly, the tracks were VERY wide so I either fell off a wall-less track or I didn't hit a wall at all. The feisar ship was quite nimble thanks to the analogue stick and I would say it responded similarly to Pulse. The game was set to something like Flash speed so I was able to avoid most walls. One of the tracks had a divide with a red target-like texture (probably intended to warn people away) that I didn't anticipate and hit face first. It took the ship a while to get going again and cost me a few positions.

I agree that the physics are still not perfect - for me the main problem is that the ships don't bounce when you land a jump - they just smack off the ground and keep going - I'd prefer it if there was a gentle bounce without the sparks. It makes the game feel too much like fzero and less like something fun (like an arcadey Sega Rally).

Physics of the recent wipeout games have improved since Fusion (I also hated playing wipeout 3 personally) but I think the original wipeout and 2097 anti-grav feeling is not fully back yet. I would compare the feeling to ice skating rather than trampolining. Ideally you want something in between.

That said - I really enjoyed playing it and got "in the zone" very quickly. I felt the analogue controls allowed for very smooth cornering and the camera movements added to the swerving feeling whilst turning which helped to pull me into the environment even more.

[Perforu]

Thanks for the insight on physics. You confirmed what I've been able to see from the videos. Why don't they serve hardcore fans as well and add a "2097 physycis enabled" feature, that would be absolutely fantastic.. I miss flying through the stages so much. All 'new' wipeouts are pretty much like an arcade car racer, you're glued to the floor and you could easily swap the anti-grav ships models with cars or add wheels to the existing ships- noone would notice since the physics are of an arcade racer. Guess real anti-grav is dead.

[Oryx Crake]

Now hold on a minute HD gives you a lot of air if you know when and how to utilize it especially on phantom. I'm not sure I think they should make it more "flying" than that or the actual track walls would be there more as an after thought than a hindrance, especially if the tracks are wider.

About wall hits, the ones in the latest instalments haven't been perfect but I don't want to go back to wall hit=dead stop because that is simply unrealistic, not even modern cars do that unless you put something solid right in front of the bumper.

so what I am wondering about is how responsive are the controls? cause when you look at videos of people playing, they very seldomly do barrel rolls even if you know they should be able to, which can mean 1 of 2 things, the ones playing in the videos arent all that good (the most probable option) or the controls are unresponsive enough that it becomes hard to do stuff like barrel rolls and sideshifts.

[Sausehuhn]

[…] how responsive are the controls? […] which can mean 1 of 2 things, the ones playing in the videos arent all that good […]

From the videos I’ve seen, they’re barely using the air brakes, thus they’re not familiar with the controls thus I guess they don’t know about barrel rolls.

Even with WOHD a lot of people are not making barrel rolls or sideshifts.

Of course, that does not answer the question.

[Oryx Crake]

true enough sau just thinking that the beta could be laggy in that department I guess.

[UB3R~JKP]

Thanks for the insight on physics. You confirmed what I've been able to see from the videos. Why don't they serve hardcore fans as well and add a "2097 physycis enabled" feature, that would be absolutely fantastic.. I miss flying through the stages so much. All 'new' wipeouts are pretty much like an arcade car racer, you're glued to the floor and you could easily swap the anti-grav ships models with cars or add wheels to the existing ships- noone would notice since the physics are of an arcade racer. Guess real anti-grav is dead.

Hmm, don't know what racing games you play, if they had WO's physics I would be appalled.

[Perforu]

Well, that's an exaggeration of mine. But new wipeouts definitely feel MUCH less floaty than 2097 and it's the main reason why I put WO 2097 over all it's newer iterations. This and the fact that in 2097 you can have a wall contact which doesnt slow you down (I liked the sound of it too). If you played Wipeout 2097 extensively, you would know what I have in mind when I'm saying that in HD you feel like you're glued to the track.

[yawnstretch]

The physics are pretty good to be fair.

I wouldn't want the ship stopping point blank when I scrape a wall. If you've played a track like Arc prime on pulse you can see how much the track design impacts the bounciness of the anti-grav. Here's a video showing some nice bounciness at rapier speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqykID91Dms

As I only played the 2048 tracks once I can't comment much on whether there were enough bouncy moments, but there were some little gaps in the sol tracks that acted like tiny jumps and unfortunately the ship didn't bounce much on impact.

[Autechom]

I know exactly what you mean, Perforu. Since 2097 was my first WO, I will always have a special connection to it. But that doesn´t mean I didn´t get used to newer Wipeouts. When Pure came out I was just happy to see that Fusion was history : )

[Perforu]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about collision with a wall, I'm talking about contact with a wall. If you just slightly touch the wall in WO 2097 your speed won't drop and you'll hear a grinding sound. I liked this feature. Once you touch a wall in pulse/HD your speed starts dropping the very moment you come in contact with a wall and that sucks in my opinion.

And I can appreciate new Wipeouts, it's just that with each new WO game I feel a bit disappointed. Good that I still have a neggie and a PSOne.


The physics are pretty good to be fair.

I wouldn't want the ship stopping point blank when I scrape a wall. If you've played a track like Arc prime on pulse you can see how much the track design impacts the bounciness of the anti-grav. Here's a video showing some nice bounciness at rapier speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqykID91Dms

As I only played the 2048 tracks once I can't comment much on whether there were enough bouncy moments, but there were some little gaps in the sol tracks that acted like tiny jumps and unfortunately the ship didn't bounce much on impact.

[Perforu]

Yeah I guess you have to come from Wipeout 2097 era to know the difference and appreciate it, probably for many users here HD/ Pure / Pulse was a first Wipeout game ever. As mentioned earlier, I can appreciate new versions, but a holy grail is a 2097 physics + new graphic engine.


I know exactly what you mean, Perforu. Since 2097 was my first WO, I will always have a special connection to it. But that doesn´t mean I didn´t get used to newer Wipeouts. When Pure came out I was just happy to see that Fusion was history : )

[UB3R~JKP]

I love 2097 but to be honest, I prefer HD. Although that's just an opinion. :)

[Darkdrium777]

Great. Now you must invent an inception machine of some kind and give your memories to us so we can "play" it as well.

No pressure. ;)

[Perforu]

huh, I'm not attacking anyone.. and definitely not blaming anyone for being too young to have experience with 2097 / for not bothering to go back to 2097. I'm just saying that after many many hours spent with 2097 all new wipeouts physics seem not so fun.. and probably most of guys here which appreciate the new physics would agree if they played 2097 extensively earlier.
I just dream of some sort of add-on, like a DLC to enable different physics.. (as I can imagine there won't be such a feature in 2048).

[Oryx Crake]

Ah I get you perf the small small scrapes in 2097 that seemingly almost make you go faster yes? if so then yeah I loved those too

[Medusa]

So is it the same type of "floaty" that HD has? Because HD is definitely more floaty than Pure or Pulse ever were, just not close to WO/XL/W3O floatiness (which to me also is the definition of heaven). Or is it closer to Pure and Pulse?
Assuming that you could tell in just a few minutes of course! Congrats on getting your hands on 2048!

[trackripper]

No, Pure was very floaty. Sliding about all over the place. HD feels grounded and somewhat nicer to race on as you have more control over exactly what your ship does and where it goes.

On another note: WAI ARE SHIPS FLAT AND UGLI? :(

[Perforu]

Yep, exactly what I'm talking about (and miss it a lot).


Ah I get you perf the small small scrapes in 2097 that seemingly almost make you go faster yes? if so then yeah I loved those too

[Medusa]

Pure? Floaty? No. "Slidey", yes. Pulse was very "slidey" as well. But not floaty. By "floaty" I am referring to how the ships float above the track. Do they bounce back up after landing a jump and how much, do they hit the track upon landing regardless of the jump height, or do they float over it? Do they float through the air after a jump so you are actually "flying" the craft, or do they fall down after a jump and you just aim where to fall to?
Hope that explains what I mean better.

[Darkdrium777]

WAI ARE SHIPS FLAT AND UGLI? :(CAUSE WIPEOUT 2048 MANG!

Eyup.

[Sausehuhn]

Pah! And all of a sudden, only four years later, they look awesome (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/images/wipeout_1_render.jpg)?! I would rather have another WO2052 then :)

[Darkdrium777]

Honestly cannot tell the difference. [x] (http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/89/gameartwork_248906b.jpg)
They're both made of basic triangle shapes.

[yawnstretch]

I believe the physics in the last batch of wipeout games has been pretty good. Maybe not as free flowing and bouncy as the originals but they're certainly not static. Adding a track with some gentle bumps could generate that dynamic feel some of the older pilots crave.

Many issues have been addressed though and so many new great details have been added to the series. If 2097 and 2048 were both playable in my sitting room right now I know which I'd be reaching for.

The older wipEouts had their day. I hope you get an opportunity to give 2048 a chance. It really deserves it in my opinion.

[Sausehuhn]

Hm, Dark, I see big differences there. In shape, size and look & feel. It’s like looking at HD’s and Fury’s ships in comparison. To me, they have totally different styles. But maybe that’s just me and that’s perfectly fine with me :)

[trackripper]

Pure? Floaty? No. "Slidey", yes. Pulse was very "slidey" as well. But not floaty. By "floaty" I am referring to how the ships float above the track. Do they bounce back up after landing a jump and how much, do they hit the track upon landing regardless of the jump height, or do they float over it? Do they float through the air after a jump so you are actually "flying" the craft, or do they fall down after a jump and you just aim where to fall to?
Hope that explains what I mean better.

Ohhhh. I gotcha now. :P

[leungbok]

Pure? Floaty? No. "Slidey", yes.
I suspect that pure is more "slidey" than floaty because of the lack of speed, in a race like citta nuova the ship would love to fly on some bumpy chicanes but there's those damn solid
walls ;) !
If i can have freetime for the event, i'll try to go at a video games conv on Paris, hoping that 2048 will be available to try :)

[RJ O'Connell]

How many ships were playable in the GamesCom build?

[yawnstretch]

It seemed to be just one (Feisar).

[UB3R~JKP]

That was expected. :D FEISAR being the easiest ship to control and all.

[JABBERJAW]

How come we havent seen a damn super phantom race yet? Geez :(.

[leungbok]

I suppose it's not unlockable at the start, and we didn't saw yet a real pilot trying the game ;)

[pask765]

It's kind of a shame that it doesn't seem like there more ships in a race than 8 in wipeout 2048 seeing as fusion had 16 ships in all races so surely wipeout 2048 could have had say, 3 pilots per team in a race.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Any word on whether 2048 will be at Eurogamer?

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Honestly cannot tell the difference. [x] (http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/89/gameartwork_248906b.jpg)
They're both made of basic triangle shapes.

One FEISAR is Blue,one FEISAR is Yellow,And what's with the Red one?
Why the eff is the FX-400 logo still there,and the FEISAR Team logo still looks like those of HD(Fury)/Pulse!

[Darkdrium777]

Red is probably AGS.
As for the logos, well remember that they're still changing things like the arrows on the sides of the tracks.

[Blaey]

How similar are the weapons to the ones in HD?

from the videos it seems as though they've only changed the rocket colour and the way the shield works...

I was hoping they'd go back to the weapons in 2097 or 2052 but hey i can dream

[rejj]

Barrel rolls


Not buying this game. Totally done with modern WO - which is a shame because it had some good ideas. Zone mode was a nice addition, but Barrel rolls are a total deal breaker.


garbage.

[leungbok]

very constructive post ! :+

[Colonel]

Couldn't disagree more rejj, I think barrel rolls are one of the best features of WOHD. Can't speak for Pure and Pulse as I've not played them, but I'd be gutted if new WO games got rid of BRs. Fortunately they're so popular that it's unlikely they'll be binned in the near future.

[kaori]

Not buying this game. Totally done with modern WO - which is a shame because it had some good ideas. Zone mode was a nice addition, but Barrel rolls are a total deal breaker.


garbage.

Do you know you can play and succeed the game without barrel roll, and set online races without barell roll ? Maybe you just need to do some for beat Zico or other facultative trophies.
Too bad you don't want to buy WipEout 2048 for this reason.

It's like say : "I don't buy Mario Kart Wii because of the Wii Wheel"
or "I don't buy GT5 because of tuning"

BR are optional, you can enjoy the games without !

[MiguelSkywalker]

I'm not against BR but they really change your gameplay if you're aiming to get better times. It sucks because is not improving your technique and your racing lines as corresponds to a racing game.

And THAT needs to be fixed in 2048, BR's have to be redesigned.

[amplificated]

Of course they're necessary if you want the best times. The game isn't about avoiding BR's, it's about using the techniques at your disposal to get the best time.

If you think you aren't improving by implementing BR's somehow, you're playing the game wrong.

WipEout isn't a driving game, it's a "futuristic anti-gravity racing game".

[kaori]

I'm not against BR but they really change your gameplay if you're aiming to get better times. It sucks because is not improving your technique and your racing lines as corresponds to a racing game.

And THAT needs to be fixed in 2048, BR's have to be redesigned.

You are wrong, BR or not, you have to ride the best lines. So you improve your technique of course !
It seems you think BR help noobies to have world record : "you can't improve ? do a BR !"
It's not a blue shell or a magic star of Mario Kart.

Best lines are almost the same, with or without BR. A nice line without BR is always faster than an eccentric line with a BR.
But sometimes, you have to take a larger line than the "best line" to do a BR and so,
take a faster line after, so the best line have changed ! This is improving your skills.

It's like in F1, sometimes you need to sacrifice a turn in order to go faster in the next turn.
Of course, you can drive faster in the first turn, but you will lose lot of times in the second turn
and maybe the long straight line after.

F1 isn't technique and racing lines ?


Of course, BR can be redesigned for WipEout 2048, why not ! A new challenge will be exciting, new way of thinking and flying for all players, but
don't reduce BR to a newbie assistant.

[leungbok]

It sucks because is not improving your technique and your racing lines as corresponds to a racing game

BRs very low off the ground into the classical best lines aren't a newbie's stuff !

[Asayyeah]

BR can be redesigned for WipEout 2048.
it should be redesigned especially those when you hit a wall that gives you enough air to get a BR : stupid
Same goes with those who are linked to eachothers (double or triple BR)

Except those 2 type of non-sense BR, i am ok with them (eventhough i regret the old wipeouts but that is not the point here) ;)

[JABBERJAW]

I agree with that. In this type of racing I want brs, but I hate how the speed got neutered, from pure until now.

[amplificated]

(I don't like BR's which) are linked to eachothers (double or triple BR)

What's the difference that makes those bad?

Also, no non-glitched wall is better to hit than properly navigate..?

[Asayyeah]

1 or 2 brs a lap is ok you know, i am not an anti-br extremist, but let's face it amplificated, that game has now turned into an only BR racing game comparable to the fzero snaking movement : check seb climb or anulpha in low classes with +12 br a lap even in phantom or those i mentionned when you can chain 2 or 3 Brs on a row.
I can understand there's people loving that aspect of the game but it's not the vast majority. And if devs are checking the forum they have to realise that a lot of WZ pilots are not found of those BR fests.
Keep BR is ok but reduce their numbers drastically that is my point of view.

[JABBERJAW]

I like that as well ( echo). Less like in wo pure, but make them matter when you do them ( like pure).

[amplificated]

I like chain BR's, although I agree that sebenco is a tad ridiculous. And of course, lines are usually more important than BR's on Phantom. Slow speeds should require something extra in order to maximise their value, and BR's are a good source of opportunity - it would be pretty boring if slow speeds just required lines with predictable and easy BR's.

[Asayyeah]

I understand your point of view about slow classes being boring at the end and need something extra to still get interested in them, Amplificated, maybe i am wrong but slow classes were implemented to get used to the different tracks, to learn curves and where to pitch correctly, that way you would be more comfortable with upper speed classes and finally phantom.
Trust me it was necessary to go through all this process from the 1st wipeout till Pulse (included). Because the tracks were mostly hard to understand at first and basically you got the same line from vector to phantom.
It's quite different now with hd/fury, with extra 'floatiness' of venom and in less way through flash or turbo+br on a flat section, your lines are completely different from phantom ones. it's like 'working' on another track requiring special ability to master chaining x Brs on a row (no doubt about your skill to master that : hats off). Consequently that means it breaks the important role the slow classes had in the past and then i understand if you stop those Brs , venom or flash are boring and mostly because of what? tracks are so fracking too easy. you can even skip venom/flash and start rapier and feel immediately comfortable.
If tracks were harder to learn in hd with similar lines from venom to phantom, those slow classes would have been more exciting on a long term period and completely belong to the wipeout history.

But that isn't the case here right now, and I hope 2048 with 2 different path per track : one harder but shorter and one easier but longer will counterbalance it.
To finish with my last fear : the longer path with multiple chained brs could be faster than mastering perfectly the trickiest path which has a shorter distance....
I hope it won't be the case but If a trick is more important than having perfect lines and/or learning tricky curves, that is not anymore wipeout it's an hybrib combo/racing game named 2048, that's all.

[leungbok]

The tricky parts are often better to perform tricks than flat areas.

check seb climb or anulpha in low classes with +12 br a lap even in phantom or those i mentionned when you can chain 2 or 3 Brs on a row
I wait the 12 Brs video on anulpha phantom with big interest ;)

I can understand there's people loving that aspect of the game but it's not the vast majority. And if devs are checking the forum they have to realise that a lot of WZ pilots are not found of those BR fests
Regarding zone, i believe there's a majority of pilots liking the BRs, but you know how people are : the complainers are always the most active :D Regarding the whole mass of players on wipeout HD, i'm sure they prefer with BRs on ! The devs listen the players majority ! ;)

The handling of the new wipeouts is way more easier than the old ones for succeeding good lines, but the recent tracks are more difficult with sharper and shorter turns. The speed also is slower now. Without BRs, HD/Fury wouldn't be a challenging game IMHO, like i'm expecting from a wipeout game.
2048 will have wider tracks (hopefully some skillcuts) ? Ok ! Then, thank you that BRs are implemented to have something where some skills will be necessary !
little tease to you : If you love tricky turns on wipeout games, why skipping lot of them with ubershortcuts on 2097 ? :p
More seriously, it looks like numerous players can chain BRs on slow classes ! IMHO there's only 10 people able to do that, the skilled ones. :nod
I agree with you on one point anyway : Slow speed classes are meant to learn the track, not to spend hundred of hours on it ! The real challenge could be to succeed the tons of BRs from slow classes at phantom speed, and soon at super phantom. If not, it's useless (my personal point of view as a phantom junky :beer) !!

[Connavar]

Hi Yawnstretch, you mentioned the framerate, could you confirm it was running
at 30fps (with additional slowdowns)? I think I'm only really interested if it's
60fps... it was my #1 wish when I was playing the PSP version, and after WOHD
I can't go back to 30.

[Mu5]

Yeah its definately 30fps, but at a higher resolution.

Im interested to see this 2 paths per track - sounds cool :+

[Sausehuhn]

Hopefully they use the dynamic framebuffer (http://insidethedigitalfoundry.blogspot.com/2008/09/wipeout-hds-1080p-sleight-of-hand.html) again, just as they did with WOHD. That would help to keep the 30fps constant without framedrops. Sure, 30fps cannot beat 60fps, but 30fps without framedrops are enjoyable anyway.

[JABBERJAW]

The videos don't look choppy at all, it looked perfectly smooth

[yawnstretch]

Framerate was perfectly smooth. No slowdown whatsoever. I did notice a drop in resolution in the foreground distance which I guess is how they are keeping the framerate smooth.

I was playing pulse today and it just felt so bare somehow. Like playing a low poly n64 game in comparison to the richness and high def of new gen games like 2048

I feel like a junky who's been introduced to a prototype drug and can't get the same batch again... Anyone seen the film "Limitless"?

I remember wanting to try out pre-release games way before everyone else when I was a kid - now I see the downside.

/starts shaking uncontrollably

[Connavar]

Ok thanks for the answer, the higher resolution is not enough for me, so I guess
I'll skip this game and hope for a PS3 expansion.

And videos on internet are usually capped at 30fps, so you can't really tell the
real framerate, hence my question.

By the way, this will give a strong advantage to PS3 players when playing online
against Vita players, the input latency of WOHD is 80ms on PS3 (5 frames delay)
and will probably be between 112-144ms on Vita.

[yawnstretch]

How did you come up with those figures? I detest controller lag and would expect that wireless contollers and hd tvs would introduce additional delay that a handheld might avoid?

I'm not saying you're wrong just wondering what you are basing your calculations on (wipeout on original psp?).

[Darkdrium777]

strong advantage
80ms on PS3
112-144ms on Vita
http://i.imgur.com/edAqN.jpg

It's nothing that has not been dealt with before. I mean, there are two existing PSP games, one of which runs at 30FPS and under on unmodified hardware.

PS: Sorry a little excited for season 2 hence the image.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

the input latency of WOHD is 80ms on PS3 (5 frames delay)

Is that not because of using an HDTV, though? I use an HD monitor (BenQ E2220HD) and get far less input lag than my friend does on his Sony HDTV.

Or that 80ms lag is just built into the game?

[feisar rocket]

BRs should go. Lets go back to W'O 3. HYPERTHRUST!

If BRs are staying, absorb has to go! New people don't stand a chance against vets on a track. Pits will limits how many times they do one.

[leungbok]

New people don't stand a chance against vets on a track
Why do new people should stand a chance against more experimented and skilled pilots ? :eek
I have a better idea, a feature that gives you an amount of wins without even racing ! :rolleyes:

[kaori]

BRs should go. Lets go back to W'O 3. HYPERTHRUST!

If BRs are staying, absorb has to go! New people don't stand a chance against vets on a track. Pits will limits how many times they do one.

Mario Kart 7 is coming, you should love this game :g

You seem to think vets are idiots ! I easily imagine that "vets" will adopt the best strategy to win, with or without BR :twisted
Practise is the key !

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

BRs should go. Lets go back to W'O 3. HYPERTHRUST!

Nooooo! Hyperthrust is horrible (IMO)! :D


New people don't stand a chance against vets on a track.

Just as it should be. ;)

[feisar rocket]

I like hyperthrust cause you can control it. BRs eat 15% every time. In first and need a boost? HyperThurst! Trying to out run a quake? HyperThurst! Having a drag race at the start of Mega Mall against a icarus? Hyperthurst!

Sebenco with pits would be nice for 2048 but NO! Absorb was made back then and people desided to add pits for no reason. Time line = terminated!

2048 needs some nice DLCs! Wipeout xl and 3 upgrade! Perfect...

P.S. vets are fine; unless they use the sideshift technique...

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Well, you can control BRs too. You don't have to do all of them! :D
Hyperthrust and BRs are comparable, as they're both a speed boost that uses up your shield. The difference is that you like hyperthrust and I prefer BRs.

I agree about absorb in 2048 not fitting into the timeline (although it doesn't really matter to me). But then there weren't any pits in the first Wipeout either, as there was nothing to recharge.

I don't understand what you're getting at with the sideshift part. First it was that noobs should be able to beat experienced players, and now experienced players should win, but only if they don't sideshift? :blarg :lol

[JABBERJAW]

New players can win in Mario kart, keep that there. However, regarding hyper thrust, I like it better. You decide where you use it. ThAt being said, it is far harder in wo3 to even keep your hyper thrust at all. Every wall hit ( stop dead) takes more energy off your bar than hd does, meaning not getting to use it much. Although they could adjust that. Brs are not leaving though, but PLEASE, give them back some real speed ( not the damn fake blur either). Real speed increase like pure.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Yes, I wasn't saying that hyperthrust is bad, only that I hate it. :lol

I'd also prefer that BRs were reduced in number somehow (the tracks and/or physics would have to be challenging to make up for it, though), but gave more speed. But I'd like them to be more difficult that most of the Pure BRs, and more like the trickier ones from Pulse. I wonder if SL knew quite how many BRs people were going to be finding in these tracks when they made the games, though. :D

[Temet]

Yes, I wasn't saying that hyperthrust is bad, only that I hate it. :lol

I can say it, it's BAD BAD BAD!! It ruined W3O for me! :evil

For BRs, the minimum could be a delay between BRs (like for sideshifts)... but still, this thing really ruins internal view.

[leungbok]

The minimum could be to let the skilled players do chain BRs when they can... and for the others... practice... or lose as deserved !

[Avenger2197]

Or what could be done is mass could be a determining factor in doing BRs. ships with a lot of mass would either not be able to do them but get better speed from turbos and ships with lighter mass would be able to do them easier, but get a lesser effect of turbos.

just an idea.

[leungbok]

More interesting idea ! ;)

[Avenger2197]

I think it would add to the tactical decision on which ship to use for a given course. This way all the non BR people would be able to choose what ship they would like to use from the "heavier" teams, while the BR pros would choose the "lighter" teams.

Then it would no longer be a line up like this: Icaras, Icaras, Icaras, Ag-S, Ag-S, Icaras, Icaras, Feisar.;)

Edit: To get back OT, any word from Hellfire on whether or not he was able to give the game a proper flogging?

[Hellfire_WZ]

Still ten days to Eurogamer yet ;)

[Avenger2197]

Ahh..sorry I thought it was/has happened already. Silly me, not checking up on things.;)

[feisar rocket]

I don't understand what you're getting at with the sideshift
I mean the sideshift that gives you a fake speed boost.

I have a way to add pits to 2048... it's storyline. "...after finding out eliminations are causing a loss of pilots at an alarming rate, we deside to remove weapons that do damage and use electronic weapons..."

Sony really needs to hit up this site...

[Darkdrium777]

I would venture a guess that some of the developers are lurking here.

A livery editor was requested often for HD and now look, apparently 2048 will have one.
A more tactical weapons system was discussed often, and now we have that (Sure Wip3out had it and they could've had the idea from there too but shhh)
New tracks were requested, well they're doing that with the game.
People talked about customizing ships, it appears you'll be able to do that in the game, or at least choosing ships with different tactical orientations (Four stats in speed, thrust, shield and handling; five teams; 20 ships; do the math.)

Of course they could've thought of all of this on their own too...
But it's pretty hard to miss this site today. It's on the second page of Google for searching Wipeout, and that's with the unrelated TV show out there too.

[yawnstretch]

I just had a sad thought...

What if the track designers are removing little hills from the tracks to reduce the amount of BRs?

So we lose that bouncy feeling :(

[Avenger2197]

Then it can be seen as a compromise toward good lines, instead of how much air one gets on a portion of track to become faster arbitrarily. From what I've seen of the tracks so far from videos, there are plenty of opportunities for BRs that aren't taken because the people flying them are inexperienced and/or are grasping the new handling. Sol looks like BR heaven. So does metro park.

Also remember it is early yet. We don't know what the last four tracks will look like. :)

[Connavar]

How about this idea:
The higher you execute BR, the more boost it gives, so the easy ones give a
nice boost (like what we have now), and the very hard ones give you almost
nothing.

It's really easy to implement, and it directly re-balances the gameplay while
still giving a SLIGHT edge to the most experimented players.

A variant would be: the BR meter charges while in the air, if you execute the
BR, this meter will be used for the boost once the ship "lands", and then goes
back to 0.
(So you don't need to BR at the top of the jump, even more fair)

Update: and that charge will depend on the maximum height reached by the
ship while in the air, not just on the air time, it should be a:
min(air time function,height function)

[leungbok]

not uninteresting !
But, it don't gives reward to the ones trying to perform the hard tricks, there's enough advantage for the slower pilots on HD online with uberpower weapons, half-a-lap quakes etc.
Something fair would be to reward with a more powerfull boost a BR very hard to do (low air's one).
And on tracks as wide as 2048, i think that something must do the difference between hardcore fans and newcomers, rather than lines (off course at super phantom, lines will do some difference).
I don't like the idea to alter BRs just because some don't like it. I prefer to see game modes and options which please everyone. BRs on/off option online and offline with separate ranking boards would be the best solution IMO, and not that hard to implement. A pilot doing a hard trick on wipeout MUST have an advantage on the mode allowing tricks ! ;)

The thing that should make the BRs harder to perform and less numerous is the speed of the game, so we need a super phantom really awesome :D

[kaori]

How about this idea:
The higher you execute BR, the more boost it gives, so the easy ones give a
nice boost (like what we have now), and the very hard ones give you almost
nothing.

It's really easy to implement, and it directly re-balances the gameplay while
still giving a SLIGHT edge to the most experimented players.

A variant would be: the BR meter charges while in the air, if you execute the
BR, this meter will be used for the boost once the ship "lands", and then goes
back to 0.
(So you don't need to BR at the top of the jump, even more fair)

Update: and that charge will depend on the maximum height reached by the
ship while in the air, not just on the air time, it should be a:
min(air time function,height function)

This idea was present in Crash Team Racing, PSone game, without trick like BR, you just had to do a little jump with R1. No impulse, no boost. But for WipEout, I don't like that. If you do that, why not give bigger quake for slow players, shorter boosts for leaders...

[amplificated]

Making the game not reward skill seems a bit silly IMO. As things are, nothing is fundamentally broken, rather, it's an intuitive and rewarding system that gives players who understand it reason to come back.

SL's choice has obviously been to limit the number of advanced BR's by making the tracks smoother and, from the looks of things, have hardly any ramps of any kind.

I think a new topic would be a better place to discuss ideas about BR's, although I don't see any real problem with them. It sounds more like a bunch of anti-BR lobbyists have complained so much that some people who don't give a **** are coming up with ideas to "fix the problem", i.e., the snowball effect.
BR's as they are currently implemented may only be 99% perfect, but the ideas witnessed in this thread have been utterly horrible in attempting to fix that 1%, I'm sorry to say.

Best thing to do for all you anti-BR people, is see how SL's solution works out for you, and talk it over with everyone else once they all have the game.

[JABBERJAW]

Sounds like CPU assist to me, make sure everyone goes the same speed, no reward for practice, make sure whoever is in last catches up to the person in first, or at least can hit them with a weapon no matter how far they are ahead( Sony, if you put this leader weapon in, there will be words). This wrecks any game for mp, such as Mario kart, Hydrothunder, star wars racer, ridge racer 7, link mode 1 on 1 woxl, and the list goes on. All great games here, wrecked in mp from CPU assist to the person who is behind.


If you were to do this, shouldn't the HARDER br to perform give you more boost ( reward skill) ?y

[leungbok]

100% agree with you !
But my biggest problem is that a game like Mario Kart (wrecked for multiplayer to me) have a lot more success than wipeout.
I can't reproach anything to devs when they try to give wipeout more attraction for the whole market (casuals). But at least if there's some multiplayer modes based on weapon (random against skills) built to become popular to the larger mass, 2048 should also have some modes based on speed, more technical and rewarding piloting skills.

[Avenger2197]

SL's choice has obviously been to limit the number of advanced BR's by making the tracks smoother and, from the looks of things, have hardly any ramps of any kind.

I think a new topic would be a better place to discuss ideas about BR's, although I don't see any real problem with them. It sounds more like a bunch of anti-BR lobbyists have complained so much that some people who don't give a **** are coming up with ideas to "fix the problem", i.e., the snowball effect.
BR's as they are currently implemented may only be 99% perfect, but the ideas witnessed in this thread have been utterly horrible in attempting to fix that 1%, I'm sorry to say.

Best thing to do for all you anti-BR people, is see how SL's solution works out for you, and talk it over with everyone else once they all have the game.

In some senses I agree with you, but I don't see a snowball effect. Also many of us "Anti-BR People" have reasons to our dislike of BRs. And I don't even think BRs are the problem necessarily. I do them because they DO take skill, they ARE hard to perform in some instances, and a player no matter the skill level should be rewarded for them.

But to basically call every idea to come to a happy middle ground as ****, is IMO worse than coming up with the ideas in the first place. Each to his/her own I guess.:|

[amplificated]

I think our ideas of what constitutes a "happy middle ground" are uncompromisingly different.

As for what I said being worse than ignoring people bringing up ideas that fundamentally conflict with what I consider good gameplay, and that recommending people react appropriately instead of randomly and for little to no reason, well, I guess I'm going to have to say I find that hard to believe.

[JABBERJAW]

A CPU assist OPTION for the following would solve many issues

1) speed catch up. On. Off

This would give speed advantage to person behind



2) weapon assist. On. Random

This would give better weapons to the person losing
Random would be random weapons, fair race



3) barrel rolls. Fast as hell. Neutered. Minimal. Off

Fast as hell.......... would be like increase in wopure
Neutered............. would be like hd
Minimal............... would be a tiny increase in speed
off.......................off

4) side shifts. On. Off



These options could satisfy almost everyone I think

[leungbok]

This idea of giving options to satisfy everybody is the best solution IMO.
With corresponding rankings !
Just being sure that some options can't have undesired effects ! Like speed catch up also working on TT/SL modes.
Also a kicking option to solve the wreck ship's issue at the grid ! ;)
Pure's BRs are faster than HD's, but don't you think those from pulse are more powerfull ? I feel that, but not sure anyway !

[JABBERJAW]

I think pures give you a bigger % boost from your base speed than pulse. But pulse is faster. Im talking about the percent increase from the base speed. I think pulse is faster overall than hd because of the br speeds ( and pitching of course)

[leungbok]

Hmmm, yes, it sounds logical ! That impression of powerfull boosts i have when i do BRs on pulse is surely due to the overal faster speed !
i look forward to test a roll at super phantom :beer

[Connavar]

This idea was present in Crash Team Racing, PSone game, without trick like BR, you just had to do a little jump with R1. No impulse, no boost. But for WipEout, I don't like that. If you do that, why not give bigger quake for slow players, shorter boosts for leaders...

Seeing your example, I think you didn't understand what I said, at all.

With my system, bad players will not gain any ground on good players, there is
absolutely NO penalty. The only thing is that unlikely BRs (the ones that don't
stay long in the air, and that don't jump high) give a reduced speed compared
to obvious BRs. So the good players still get more ahead, just a bit less than
right now.

And the idea with options is good of course, but it's always better to have a
good STANDARD mode, why? Well because of rankings for once, each time
you add a toggle, you have to multiply rankings by two, so this might make
it to the multiplayer modes, but definitely not to Speed Laps and more,
so we need a good and fair default/standard mode.

And to prove my point: BRs can be disabled in multiplayer already, so people
complaining about them, are complaining because of other modes, or because
not enough people are disabling them, so the problem remains.

[leungbok]

And to prove my point: BRs can be disabled in multiplayer already, so people
complaining about them, are complaining because of other modes, or because
not enough people are disabling them, so the problem remains.

There was a league created here for no BR-off races, it was called PRESSURE. Only one event happened !
IMHO people wants to compete for the rankings even if they don't want to/can't do BRs !!
So more rankings are necessary !
I'm still not convinced of not rewarding with a bigger boost the hardest tricks.
That don't seems fair to me, even if it pleases players taking less risks.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

In my opinion, good players should be getting ahead by even more, not less. It doesn't have to be through BRs, though; I'd welcome something new, or more challenging physics/tracks (when trying to run the best lines, at least). But there has to be something, otherwise what's the point? It's all very well making the game easier to get into for beginners, and I can see why that'd be a good thing for SL and just for getting more players into the game, but to remove or reduce the advantage that good players have (and should have) will just put off all but casuals (I'm already not sure if I want to get into 2048, unless I see evidence of plenty of reward for skill, rather than loads of weapons spam luck :turd :lol). Why bother learning and practicing a Wipeout game for 1000 hours or whatever, for only a 0.1s advantage, so that some noob can fire an overpowered weapon and beat you anyway? ;)

[Connavar]

MrMad ... The idea of my proposal is to reward players for playing WELL, not
just by BRing all the time, someone with fantastic lines will score a good time,
better than someone with okayish lines and great BRs, right now it's quite the
contrary.

Personally I don't really care because I'm ready to BR like crazy, but seeing all
those people complain, and suggesting solutions, pushed me to find a fair and
simple solution, that should please everyone if parameterized correctly.

Leung: it's not practical to have thousands of rankings, SL can't even deal with
the 440 rankings already, so if we have to multiply this by 8 (4 BR mode + 2 SS),
let's get real, it ain't gonna happen. That's just a DREAM, rather find a
solution that they can actually consider.

[Temet]

And to prove my point: BRs can be disabled in multiplayer already, so people complaining about them, are complaining because of other modes, or because not enough people are disabling them, so the problem remains.

I didn't want to reply to the recent discussion because several pages are pure off topic, and should be moved to another topic.

Personaly, I like the idea of Connavar, that hard BR will give advantage, but not as much as easy ones.

But I also want to share my opinion about the "no BR" option in HD.
Why it's not popular? Even me, who is not the #1 fan of BR, I can't play without because HD gameplay is toooooo easy (and no Leung, that doesn't mean I can beat everyone! :g ).
Seriously, if you just focus on the lines in HD, it's perfect lap after perfect lap... even for me!!!
You need BR to give the game its interest... and that's a failure.
BR should be add some value to the gameplay, not being the savior of a flat gameplay.
That's my feeling dudes :)

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

The problem with reducing the effectiveness of BRs (or something else based on skill) is that it's holding back skilled players to let noobs keep up. Okay, you could make it more challenging to run great lines (not including BRs) by having harder physics/tracks/whatever to provide a reward for skill, but then you make the game inaccessible for new players, and that's just not going to happen these days (much as I'd like it to). We need something like BRs (not necessarily BRs) to give a large advantage to expert players; they need an incentive to bother with the game. Or the game could just be totally noob-orientated and have a lifespan (hours) in double figures, maybe single :lol.

[JABBERJAW]

Right on with the track difficulty. Brs should give the same boost all the time. If they are going to be in the game, make them matter. Skill should be rewarded, don't want Mario kart here.

Here is a reward for driving skill:

Your ship speeds up 1% for every 10 seconds of not hitting the wall, or falling off, or respawning, or blowing up. As soon as you hit the wall, you return to normal speed, and the timer restarts. This would allow someone who NEVER hits or rides the wall to get a lead they deserved, over someone who scraped the wall 4 times on a lap, and in hd would only be .2 seconds back. This would reward excellent driving, and not make others who hit the wall occasionally any slower than hd. It would also make barrel rollers safer with their rolls because they wouldn't want to wreck their top speed increase by touching the wall.

[leungbok]

Good idea ! A bit late i guess ! :pirate

[Sausehuhn]

I really don’t want to be a downer, but could one of the moderators split this thread up and create a new one that goes like „Barrel Rolls – yes or no? Alternatives?“. It’s an interesting read, but does not belong in this thread or maybe not even in the WO2048 section.

[Connavar]

MrSmadSmartAlex: not all the BRs will be reduced in speed!
And the funny thing is that you have no idea by how much they'll be reduced,
I mentioned earlier that it's using a function (with parameters), so it could range
from 0% to 100%.

JABBERJAW: sorry but your reasoning about BRs doesn't make much sense.
"if they're going to be in the game, make them matter", so how about making
all BR twice as effective as of now, heh? Now that will matter a lot.

It's ALL about the balance, obviously the game has some troubles with the
balance, but it's near perfect still, so only slight adjustments are necessary to
polish it even more.

The problems that I see with BRs is that the gap between very good players
and good players becomes sooooo huge, that designers at SL had to make
Bombs and mines last longer, and give more Quakes to people behind, see?
So as we see, SL also wants to balance the game, they just did it in a way
that can be painful to both top players and others.

Many many details can be improved, collisions yea, and inter-ship collisions as
well, well I could go on forever, I've collected about 300 things that are
wrong in the game.

I guess I'll have to show it in a demo, will be more efficient than words.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

I do understand your point and why you're making it, Connavar. But I simply disagree that the gap between expert players and noobs should be lessened, even just a little. I think that it should be increased. That's why I might seem to be ignoring specifics about how much BR effectiveness would be reduced by. ;)

The thing is, the physics (and now the tracks too, it seems) in the new games were made easier to make the game more accessible to new players. I don't think that they're going to make it difficult in that way again, unfortunately, as new players will cry and not buy it :lol. So something else is needed to make the games worth mastering.
The way I see it, BRs and sideshifts are that compromise; a way for a highly skilled player to gain a decent advantage. Unless they're replaced with or used in addition to something else, reducing their effectiveness at all will lessen the gap between experts and noobs. Maybe some would consider that a good thing, but I think that it'd be a terrible move and make the game pointless to play, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

edit: About the weapons, I have a feeling that the overpowered weapons spam would be in there regardless of the difficulty of the game or BRs or whatever, as that's just the way games are these days. No subtlety, no balance, just massive explosions to impress casuals.

[JABBERJAW]

"if they're going to be in the game, make them matter", so how about making
all BR twice as effective as of now, heh? Now that will matter a lot.


Yeah, I agree with that, I said make them speed up from your normal speed a lot more, like in pure, which is a huge difference. Why have a br if it is so slow.

But I also want good driving to matter, hence the speed increase thing. You would need to do your brs very carefully so as not to hit the wall and lose your speed % increase you have built up.

This entire scenario would make brs more useful, but you wouldn't be able to smash off walls after you do them (or risk losing your speed advantage), so you would need to be wise when and where to use them. I would like a nice turning line under this scenario( without hitting), to be faster than hitting the wall off every br, BUT IF YOU CAN DO BOTH, then people like yeldar or skrotos can dominate like they should.


That being said, I would like the earlier options for mp. Records would be achieved in tt and sr in single player as normal, but mp there would need to be a standard for records. However, people could play how they like.

[P_Denton]

I'm against BRs. I'd rather have cookies.

EDIT: ;{

[leungbok]

Off topic ! ;)

[kaori]

I really don’t want to be a downer, but could one of the moderators split this thread up and create a new one that goes like „Barrel Rolls – yes or no? Alternatives?“. It’s an interesting read, but does not belong in this thread or maybe not even in the WO2048 section.


I agree.
Keep this topic to receive impressions of lucky persons who played WipEout 2048. I hope to do it after Paris Game Week.

[Mad-Ice]

I would like to participate in this discussion about BRs and other possibilities too! However it doesn't belong in this thread. This thread went off-topic from post #40. Maybe we can continue in The future of Wipeout in a new thread: Everything about Barrel Rolls from Pure to 2048.

Greetz Mad-Ice

[Asayyeah]

I second that, Mad-Ice, mods have to split from post 40 and delete all the requested posts asking to move to another thread.

I also have a lot to say not spefically all about brs but more generally about evolution of wipeout.

[Hellfire_WZ]

On my way to Eurogamer now, hoping to nab 2048 before every other bastard gets on it! Will report back later

[stin]

Let us know before I will start thinking about it.

stevie:)

[stever]

good luck hellfire. I was there yesterday and the Vita stand is a shambles. I queued for 2hours 20. Then it's a random lottery to see which of the 12 games you get to play. After some cunning bartering I managed to get WipEout, but only because I'd taken a mate in who happened to get uncharted in the lottery and swapped it with the guy that got WipEout. Make sure you take at least one sidekick to increase your chances of getting the right game in the lottery. You'll then get a 5 minute go on the game assisted by a Sony staffer who know nothing about the game

[Hellfire_WZ]

Sh*t. In the queue now and it is indeed a lottery... Fingers crossed. I am here with someone so chances are slightly increased

[stever]

I guess I should post my thoughts on the machine and the game too ;) The Vita certainly felt more comfortable to hold than the old PSP and is bigger, yet lighter. The left analogue stick is much more usable, as I've never been able to use the PSP one without getting cramp. WipEout 2048 supports the dpad too and that was my preferred option. The buttons on the right are much smaller than on the PSP and I often caught the edge of neighbouring buttons and the top of the right stick, which is quite close. Loading times were faster than Pure/Pulse but still needed a progress bar. I only got to play one track which was noticeably wider than the HD tracks. Weapons and handling seemed pretty much unchanged (apart from new icons and graphical effects). I couldn't hear much of the sound, but it seemed to have a distinctly podracer like engine sound. I had no trouble doing BRs and again they seemed to be the same as HD. I won the race without too much trouble and was awarded an elite medal, but I'm not sure it was actually running on elite, as the AI didn't seem to put up an HD-like battle

[leungbok]

Good report ! :) Which speedclasses were available when you played, did you raced at phantom ?

[Hellfire_WZ]

YES!! Pulled Wipeout! Report coming later :D

EDIT: Right, here we go

Playing on a handheld again felt strange after using a pad for so long, but the controls do feel similar to HD. What did strike me was that the physics felt much more floaty than HD. As a result, there seemed to be plenty of opportunity for barrel rolling if you can manipulate your pitch well. As has been said, the guy running the thing knew bugger all aboutthe game, but there is a dev wandering round in a FEISAR uniform that I'll try and speak to later. The build only allows one speed class and one craft, but it was certainly a good experience with the game. Only criticism as has been said already was with the button layout on the Vita. If you use classic controls then you're likely to be knocking the right analog stick which is a right pain.

[leungbok]

And if you use the d-pad, do you also knock the left stick ?
what is the speedclass available ? I think about rapier ! :D

[Hellfire_WZ]

No problems with the D-pad, it felt pretty good actually. Not sure what the speed class was as the only thing resembling a menu was to choose which track to play. Ended up picking Sol twice accidentally, tried to go for Empire Climb as well but my time ran out. Can't say it was faster than Flash though. The tracks themselves felt good. Open in places and not too many technical parts but still fun to race. I do hope the final version allows for customised controls though. The "classic" controls are there as a preset but those of us used to the REALLY classic controls that use circle to fire won't be happy.

To answer Al's question earlier, there was definitely no pilot assist active, I was tumbling off the track on the first lap all over the place ;) It was obvious that the AI was on novice as I pulled back an 8 second deficit to win by 3 seconds

[stin]

If you are saying it`s really "floaty" then I`m dreaded it it will be more BR than normal which I don`t really want that to be honest, IMO.

But again, what do we know.......

Yes, I`m severely critic but that`s my choice.

stevie:|

[stever]

Good work on succeeding in the lottery helfire. I don't know why they did it that way. They'd have been better to have a smaller range of games, and a higher ratio of demo machines to demonstrators, as they were prettyredundant anyway.
As for speed, it was a bit difficult to say, especially with the track being wider. It certainly wasn't above rapier though. I didn't find the dpad placement to be as much of an issue as the buttons and managed to avoid catching the analogue stick fine.

[Sausehuhn]

So they did the same thing as they did as Gamescom. Luckily you could try the game anyway.

[JABBERJAW]

By floaty, do you mean when you pitch back the entire ship comes off the ground higher, or just when you do come off the ground, you go higher.

@hellfire I was curious about mp, and they didn't let you use that, lame!

@Stevie. I wouldn't worry about it, there appears to be no bumps or quick up downs in the game whatsoever. I wonder if everyone complaining about brs caused that? I'm hoping that there are still bumps, but I'm worried now by the tracks I've seen.

Did the weapons slow you down less?
When hitting walls, it appeared to not slow you down on some videos, is this true? Is that feature similar to hd, or even MORE lenient.

Oh, I like the fact you were falling off the track and NO invisible walls, that should up the difficulty some

[Hellfire_WZ]

Yeah, I guess as it's an alpha build the multiplayer is still a fair way off of being ready to demonstrate yet. The AI difficulty was so low that I never got hit by a weapon in two races, and I didn't have enough collisions to say for certain whether the effect is more or less lenient than HD. Still, I think the collision physics will change over time anyway as they refine the game so that's probably something we can see in later builds.

[Darkdrium777]

I wonder if everyone complaining about brs caused that?I'd chalk that up more to the general design of the game and what they are going for rather than the people here.

[leungbok]

If you are saying it`s really "floaty" then I`m dreaded it it will be more BR than normal which I don`t really want that to be honest, IMO

There's a point you must consider steevie ! ;)
2048's tracks seems really longer than HD ones, so 4/5 BRs a lap would be like a pure's run : Some BRs but pretty spaced, so you can easily focus on lines on the most part of the track, rather than on HD where you must prepare to another BR just after landing the previous one !

[CHEE5E2EE]

Hi all

I was at eurogamer on Friday and managed to play it 3 times! :hyper
1st go was with a fastpath (no lining up) next 2 gos was after a long wait inline :( Still i got to meet Ami and she was really helpful. She seemed to know alot thankfully and showed me Sol. I also got some postcards no stickers though. They let me film it too. Only problem was i made 2 videos on my 1st go then was showed Sol on my 2nd by Ami. I had run out of memory on my cam so deleted one video but deleted prob the better of the 2 :( On my 3rd go filmed Sol but was from a distance so you cant really tell whats going on.... fail :( I really enjoyed the gameplay though. It was at venom im guessing but was still able to pull off many brs even chain some like at the end of Sol after going through the skill cut. It did seem a bit more floaty than HD. I felt there was a touch of auto assist but prob just for demo purposes. So many weapon pads! Totally changes the game. For the better i hope. Cant wait!

PS Ami said Sol is b4 the earthquakes? Prob why Sol2 is in the air? She couldnt tell me to much (I'd asked about Zone mode) but said she has now met Zico and his beat Zico time wasnt the best time in the Studio Liverpool office just the fastest that day when they took it 4 the trophy lol!

[blackwiggle]

What craft were you piloting?
I'm presuming it was Fiesar, as that's the only craft that seems to have been made available in any demo I've seen.
I mean I find most if not all the FURY craft more floaty than the HD craft, especially AGS.
When the people that have played 2048 say it feels more floaty than HD, do you also mean that the 2048 craft are also more floaty than their FURY counterparts?

[Hellfire_WZ]

It certainly felt that way, pitch management was more noticeable than it was in HD. And yeah, so far the standard FEISAR has been the only craft available to use.

[CHEE5E2EE]

The Feisar was nice don’t get me wrong but I’ve always had a love for Qirex. You do get to see it a bit in some of the trailers like at about 1.15 in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klrvRYnctyE&feature=related that ver looks beastly! Love it :D

[MiguelSkywalker]

I was able to play 2048 at Gamefest'11, Feisar in Sol, apart from what has been already pointed out about the wider tracks and new weapon pad offensive/defensive option, it's also noticeable the inclusion of the different options you have to navigate the same track, they are not the same as the shortcuts in HD, it would be interesting to explore those options to get the better time.
I wish I could tell more, but I wasn't even allowed to finish ONE race :evil.
I'll get it day one anyway.

[Temet]

I got a fast path to try PSVita on Paris Games Week next Saturday... I hope I will have the chance to play Wipeout ;)

[Mad-Ice]

Yeah, way to go Temet! Good luck and we all will wait for your report and vids. :hyper

Greetz Mad-Ice

[Temet]

Well for vids I hope I'll met some friends with a good phone then!
Kaoriiiiiiiii, you have a brand new cool phone, tell me you come on Saturday please! :g

[kaori]

I only can Tuesday, waiting my fast pass too

[leungbok]

i'll accompany you kao ;)

[Temet]

Ah ****! :'(
Indeed Kaori, I got the email for the fast path, I went to the website to ask for it but I'm still waiting it in my mailbox!! :blarg

On Tuesday is not possible for me, I'm working... but it will better for you, less people. It will probably be a nightmare on Saturday :?

I know Greg (G-Superpilot) wanted to go to... maybe he'll go during the week end. I'm gonna ask him :)

EDIT : I now have my fast path :hyper

[leungbok]

There's a thread about PGW on arena !! :rolleyes:

[Temet]

I'm back!
I went this morning to PGW, with my fast path.
If you don't have one... well today, forget it, it's hours of waiting.
So, it's around 10 minutes to play. I picked "Rayman" ... I was really disappointed, nobody wanted to swap :'(. I hoped for a Wipeout or Uncharted (to swap for a Wipeout).
I was looking the PSVita, not even touching it... and it happens that they picked 19 people instead of 20... and there was a free spot for Uncharted. A Sony guy saw I was disappointed and told me : "Hey, you can play Uncharted!".
I said : "I don't care, I want Wipeout!"
The guy said : "I'll get you a spot for Wipeout" ... and he proposed a guy to play Uncharted.
I thanked the guys half a dozen of times and I could play Wipeout :hyper

People already shared there experience so :
- Loadings are VERY long;
- When you restart a race... loadings are VERY long (no joke);
- The game is beautiful, I didn't notice any low res texture in background... but I was not focusing on this (hey, 10 minutes to play... :) )
- I did two tracks... I don't remember which of them, I just avoided Empire Climb. I did twice the same track (then testing the loadings for "try again") because they was a skillcut I failed to take the first try (just after a turn). For skillcuts, it looks like there are some simple skillcuts... you just cut a turn, and more complex ones. The one I tried was more complex : it's on the left and you're going upper level, then it's narrow and there are 3 speed pads on the right... if you go to much on the right, you fall down ... a bit like Anoobpha, but not a straight line ;)
These two tracks gave me the feeling of being for racing, and not acrobatics... and that's great.
The sideshifts seemed lighter than from HD, I hope this will avoid ss+br sh*t.

The guy was not able to tell me which speed it was.

Feelings are positive... but we need to try high speed. I don't think this opus will have any interest on low speed, except learning the tracks ans skillcuts.

Regarding PSVita... the handling is good, the screen is nice. The D-Pad is strange : pushing a direction give the feeling to click on a Mouse button with the big finger. It's not negative, just unusual.

The only major drawback is the 4 buttons are REALLY small and close one other to each other. Man, I have slim fingers... thanks Mom... because if you have big fingers... well, good luck!

Can't wait February 2012! :hyper

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Thanks for the report, Temet. :)
Did you notice much about the slowdown from weapons and wall hits? Could be a deal breaker for me.
Also, how was the framerate for you? I know that it's locked at 30fps (worse than the PSP games :lol, but it'll be playable if it's 100% stable), but I saw framedrops in one of the early 2048 videos when weapons were onscreen.

[Temet]

Well Ben, the IA was in easy mode and I don't remember being slow down by weapons.
It's a bit hard to estimate with this speed, because it's slow anyway. Even the turbo seemed less powerful.

I had no framerate issue, it looks fine to me :)

[leungbok]

Regarding PSVita... the handling is good, the screen is nice. The D-Pad is strange : pushing a direction give the feeling to click on a Mouse button with the big finger. It's not negative, just unusual
I had some fear about those new d-pad feeling, i'm reassured 8)
The track maybe was unity square. Did sol was available ? It seems on sh@dows videos that only 4 tracks are available at PGW queen's mall, unity square, empire climb and metro park.
I hope that with asa, kao and huntergreg we'll have more opportunities to test and film some 2048 ;)

[Temet]

Yeah Leung, I feel comfortable about the D-Pad. I think after a few hours of adaptation it will be ok. I had no issue to perform BRs ;)
There was no Sol, or I would have picked it :)
I couldn't film because I was alone (I met Greg after and we stayed some time after, it was nice to meet him again).
Good luck for tuesday, I would have liked to be with you guys :brickwall

[Darkdrium777]

They might be using microswitches now instead of some rubber contacts. I don't know if that's good or bad for this. It's probably more responsive, but I don't know for the durability.

[Temet]

Maybe they expect players to use more intensively the Analog Stick... so they didn't worry about the durability of the D-Pad.
I hope not :g

[leungbok]

Just back from PGW where i tried wipeout 2048.
My overall impression = awesome !! That episode will rock ! :rock
We were 4 frenchies at the expo and we all succeeded in playing wipeout 2048 twice. So with Asa, kaori and huntergreg we tried several tracks.
About the graphisms, it's absolutely awesome, a tiny version of fury on ps3. I mean pure and pulse on psp were already very impressive visually, but on vita i tried to spot some aliasing like it's common on psp's games, and i saw nothing, that oled screen is incredible !
- The tracks are great, a bit wider but with different routes and some skillcuts clearly thiner.
- In that trial version of the games 4 tracks were available, empire climb, unity square, queen's mall, metro park or 3 tracks with sol on one of the 2 other vitas (so 5 tracks were playable at the expo ;)). Speed classes were different on different tracks (like on wipeout the first IMO ;)) The fastest available speedclass was maybe rapier on queen's mall.
- About the BRs, they're easy to perform (at least with the d-pad), even easier than on pulse/HD, but the tracks are less bumpy.
- One of the defensive items (green ones) are mines (not exactly something i instinctively consider as defensive :lol).
- about the framerate, if it's 30 fps, it runs like 60 on the speed classes i tried :D

Asa will probably post later the footage done by Kaori and Huntergreg on queen's mall :)
22 of february is too far :brickwall

[kaori]

Awesome is the word, I've played two races on Queen's Mall, nice track, wider and faster than Pure and Pulse, so the walls won't kill us easily like in the PSP games, but the speed sensation is very good (and we haven't seen phantom or super-phantom videos !)
The tracks have lot of pads : speed pads, weapon pads, it's a joy to fly from one to the other.
120 days...

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

But the most important deal breaking question is: did they bring back backquakes?! :D

[kaori]

I've picked 2 plasmas bolt, missing my opponents, but haven't picked a quake :( And my opponents used some against my ship ! :banzai

We had some difficulties to heard the PSVita, despite the headphones. Too much noise in the expo, so I couldn't manage the weapon like usual.

However, I could fly in reverse. :twisted

[Asayyeah]

That was a ball !
Invited by Leungbok to spend the night at his place in order to get early to the PGW ( thx so much it was great :) )
A quarter past nine we were entering the place already crowded. Luckily we only waited like 30 minutes before entering the Vita area populated with 21 vita (only :( ) including 3 copies per game (7 games listed).
Lucky me i got one of the 3 wipeout cards and started immediately the 1st track (unity square in venom) i was so hype i forgot to put the headphones and start tchatting with one of the Vita boy (who are supposed to give you answers about your question, but lol in this case it was him who questionning me about my Wipeout hoodie. Exagerating a bit by saying we were 4 reporters covering 2048 for wipeout arena and wipeoutzone web sites :g
Anyway venom was boring and that track aswell, vita boy told me to change for the last one of the 4 tracks names Queen's mall.
This track at that speed (rapier possibly) was definitely wipeout , appealing to me a lot! I did it a 2nd time before leaving the area (last one to get out :) )
To answer Ben's question about powerful weapons : definitely yes they are powerful, on my 1st attempt that venom boring track it was a pure fight with several quakes, being hit by a weapon may stop you but you can gain your speed pretty quickly right after, not like Pure if you see what i mean.
on my 2 tries on queen's mall , i haven't been hit by weapons.
imo wall hits slow you down but not again like pure, but not also like HD where sometimes hitting walls can go you faster ( chenghou airpin frwd anyone? :brickwall ) it's something in between for the good of the feeling.
I am positively surprised of this good balance they found.

Kaori & huntergreg used their fast pass and i gave them my camera thinking i couldn't wait 2 hours in the queue and i was already satisfied by my 3 tracks but luckily we 'found' new fast pass for 3 and we returned to get again the lotery to play maybe another set of tracks of 2048.
Leung was lucky and immediately get the 2048 card, Greg get uncharted easily exchangeable vs a 2048 card and me with...little deviants WTF!! i immediately check around who was having the last 2048 card and I throw him a verbal disruptor (:g) that shaked hard his head and he was convinced after 5 sec that giving the 2048 card would extense his life a little bit longer.
Wise decision from him :clap
And we played again a set of 3 races : 2 of queen's mall and my last was Sol : holy **** Stevie !! you gonna luv that track. Everyone knows that there's open section through Sol and that is rocking big time! especially when the track is splitting in 2 and you are pushed by ships to breathe the air of respawn :)
The transparency effect is purely amazing , absolutely not comparable to talon's junction psp pulse ( to compare handhelds which is comparable).
No need to say on internal view it's just orgasmic lol.
Only a little negative point (to me) it was on Sol last lap, it's where you can jump down the track doing a br, that 's what i did but landed on signs (who are red & white arrows ) located on left side of the track who helped me to get another BR. it was not BR chain ( i hope but not 100% sure : sadly it hasn't been filmed).

Main point is : I ll get this Vita fev the 22th no matter of what ! and of course bundled with 2048 :)

[leungbok]

so, you didn't enjoyed little deviants ? :(

[Asayyeah]

I was more likely tempted by 'little pervert' title :g

[Mad-Ice]

Great news dear friends, I am really happy for you. And of course you all need that head start ;) Anyway, looking forward to that video footage, especially Queen's Mall. Oh I am so excited.

[Temet]

Arg, lucky bastards, too bad I couldn't be with you !!!!
I feel unlucky suddenly, I didn't get the vita with Sol available.

I'm happy Asa that you changed your mind, you weren't excited at all about 2048 last time we talked about it! :rock

[Asayyeah]

Don't over-interprate my statementsTemet that wasn't the case. We all know what i am thinking about excessives BRs but talking about about changing my mind , no. :)
I am very happy and more than that since yesterday to have a brand new wipeout with (and that's important) real new tracks we didn't have since 2007 and pulse.
My goal is to enjoy as much this game as i can and check after one year of existence if passion is still here or not and if environnemet of the game is still the same as it is from its beginning.