Online Ladders

[Copernicus]

There are people here working on custom racing games (myself included). The issue of online components is going to come up eventually. What I'm interested in knowing is if you expect a new computer racing game to have a proprietary online ladder. Would you want your game to automatically submit your records to said ladder? How would you like to log in to the online ladder system, or manage your account(s)? Or are you old school people who enjoy the toil of uploading all your times manually on a website?

[Medusa]

Personally, the only way I'd want the game to automatically upload the times was if the system worked perfectly (no record glitches). Obviously that sort of thing doesn't seem to show up until the game is said and done, but...

Entering times manually is complete torture, and prone to human error and deliberate falsification.

I guess what I'm saying is, "Yes, there should be a ladder. Just make sure it's perfect." ;)

[Rotational_aspect]

Not trying to burst your bubble, but it will be hard enough to make a 1 player game, let alone a multiplayer one which has online ladders.

For now, at least, I will be focussing on a single player game- but I'm curious, how is your game going Copernicus? What are your aims?

[Copernicus]

My goals are to make a complete single player racing experience. The game doesn't have multiplayer. I haven't even tried to program that. If enough people complain about it I might add it, but it would probably be a year before it ever gets into the game in the form of an update.
The game itself is going fantastic. One of the goals is to include an automatic ladder because I consider manually uploading all the records for this game impractical. I'll be releasing a demo next month to publicly test the online ladder to make sure it is working correctly. In the mean time I need to make the website holding the records look prettier. If you've been to my website you've probably noticed how generic appearing my current records are for Zone mode. That's actually using ladder code, I just haven't made public a page for creating new accounts or uploading records.

[Rotational_aspect]

Got a website or screenshots of your game? It sounds very interesting- is it more WipeOut or F-Zero though (you seem to be into F-Zero by the looks of your records)?

[Copernicus]

It's definitely more F-Zero in style. I tried to capture the original comic-book feel of the original F-Zero. As far as user interface is concerned it's more like Wipeout. F-Zero games have always had very limited features when compared to Wipeout games, so I leaned more to Wipeout in that respect. The game does things that F-Zero games haven't done, and probably won't do because of who they are developed by and who their target audience is. I hope that people will appreciate the difference and not consider it an F-Zero game.

[Rotational_aspect]

Screenshots (please?) before I die of curiosity!

It sounds really good- I always liked F-Zero, I have fond memories of Fire Field and Death Wind!

[Copernicus]

I won't make any screenshots available until next month. The first thing visible will probably be the ladder. The only thing that could delay things is Chicago Comic Con. But no matter what the game will be available on August 23. I will not let it ship later than that!

[Rotational_aspect]

Sounds very professional. What tools did you use to make your game with?

Looking forward to the 23rd; what website should I be looking for that day?

[feisar rocket]

...F-Zero, I have fond memories of Fire Field and Death Wind!I know FF but Death Wind? What F-Zero is it in. Not GX...maybe, when I beat story mode.

Online? There is a prog that uses a VPN to connect to others. Called Himachi I think?

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Death Wind is in the original F-Zero.
Game mechanics and physics? How will they be like?
I have a WMG:WipEout becomes F-Zero in the 24th century.

[Copernicus]

The game is arcade like. It doesn't really have physics. I consider them a liability (F-Zero games just get buggier with more complicated engines). My background is table-top role playing games, so the game tries to behave mechanically instead of physically. It you're looking for something realistic this isn't it.
I had another question about online features. Besides ladders, many game systems today have achievement/trophy systems that allow you to view other players achievements/trophies. Would you guys want that, or is the general exploitionware feel of achievements and gamer scores not something you're interested in?

[amplificated]

About online ladders, I just thought I'd say (you've probably thought of this already) that the best way to do it is create a hash file of all the modifiable contents of the game that is uploaded every time the user attempts to upload a score/time, and compare it to a hash on the main server - if it doesn't match, the time isn't uploaded. Just to prevent people modifying the game in order to cheat.

As for achievements, I don't think they're worth it... Unless you're going for actual achievements like "get X time on Y track in Z mode"; or if there are different/difficult aspects to the gameplay, offer an achievement for executing it somehow. I'm not a fan of slowly trickling out achievements for mundane things like completing a stage. An achievement for finishing the game should only matter if it unlocks something more than a little icon somewhere saying "this dude has finished the game".

[Copernicus]

But do we ever finish a racing game, or do we time trial forever?
As for security, I do have some measures in place, but it isn't as impregnable as possible. I'm not an expert at web security programming, and my original more secure scheme caused issues with the auto-updater. But anything can be hacked if someone skilled enough attempts it. With people taking out Sony Playstation Network my meager website and I probably wouldn't stand chance.
Would you guys want to browse the online ladders from within the game? The game has a regular website for viewing records like here and Mr Fixit Online, etc.

[amplificated]

Depends if you have a campaign or something similar. You'd generally finish that first, and then TT forever ;p

Personally I think it would definitely help encourage competitiveness by having a ladder available in-game.