Senna

[s0mmieUK]

I think it's a fairly safe guess that many WipEout pilots are also fans of motorsport in it's many forms too. I would also expect a good portion to be fans of Formula One.

So, have any of you caught the Senna documentary yet? It's absolutely amazing. Genuinely a fantastic, moving, affecting piece of cinema.

It really makes you appreciate what a gifted, passionate driver Senna was, and what an amazing human being he was.

If you have seen it, what are your thoughts?

[infoxicated]

I haven't seen it, but my friends went to see it a week ago and recommended it was "one to watch at home, unless you like sobbing in public!"

So I'll probably catch it when it's available on the PSN movie services.

[s0mmieUK]

The last quarter of the film is absolutely excruciating. The fact they choose to show that fateful final lap from Senna's on-board camera and that you know how it's going to end, it's so tense, and the aftermath is heartbreaking. It's very difficult not to well up.

That said, I would highly recommend taking the opportunity to experience some of Senna's best races and moments on the big screen.

[Nutcase:259]

i hope to see it when i get the chance, but not many cinemas in my area are showing it.
being 18 i can remember watching f1 as far back as 1996 (got a mini Scalextric Ferrari and Benetton :g) so i missed the whole senna era. other than the classic ones they show on red button before a race weekend.
it'd certainly be good to see. :g

[Amorbis]

Like Nutcase I'm too young to have seen Senna race back in the day, I only started watching F1 in around 1997, but I would like to see the documentary based on what other people are saying.

I doubt I'll see it in the cinema, so I'll likely get it on DVD or Blu-Ray at some point. Until then I can always watch some of Senna's racing on YouTube.

[MegaGeeza22]

Senna was a Genius... i never really saw much of him but my dad is a big fan.
F1 was at its best in the 80s and early 90s but now its all computerised and its getting very easy for drivers and the skill once required is being slowly removed.
I will download this documentary in a few days, then il buy the blue-ray for my dad.

[Nutcase:259]

now its all computerised and its getting very easy for drivers and the skill once required is being slowly removed.


Thats such a overused sweeping statement. and not true in the slightest as the levels of down force and speeds increase, drivers have to push the car harder to find the limits.
the ride heights of the cars makes it incredibly difficult to see the front of your own car and the amount of g-forces over the course of a race are immense.
as for the computerisation surely that makes it more difficult having the ability to change fuel mixtures, engine mappings and use of KERS all whilst doing 160 to 200 mph?

[KGB]

It was probably the most exciting time for F1 back in the Senna, Prost, Piquet, and Mansell days. I remember watching the race when Senna died, no one could believe it as it didn't seem that bad a crash, the fact that another driver had died the day before just made it all the more surreal.

Doubt I'll go and see the film but will be getting it when it gets a shop release.

[MegaGeeza22]

Back in the days of senna, mansell i believe far more skill was required.
For them it was like being strapped to a time bomb and the G's they pulled were very similar.
Yes today its all computerised and far more advanced but its the engineers and pit crew who do all the hard work by nursing these finally tuned engines and the drivers just drive... its not the drivers who win its the best car on the day...
My grandad was a Massive fan of F1 and used to go to some races with my dad but he says the excitement is fading away.... braking assist, steering assist... all the assists you can think of including an indistructable cockpit and fuel tank. senna raced a dynamite on wheels with no pilot assists and just a crash hat for protection... in those days it was all about how much bottle you had and thats what made it exciting but now its all about Health and safety the technicians and which car is suited to a specific track.
Best race ever was the Monaco 1984... i wasnt alive then lol but iv watched that race countless times! they are bloody mentalists lol
iv put a link to the full race on my page...

[Nutcase:259]

Back in the days of senna, mansell i believe far more skill was required.

*ahem* if its a case of older f1 seasons are better then i think the 80's dawn of aerodynamics and assists era had less skill than this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6aNnZ4q80s&feature=related) ;)

its just the general old idea that everyone thinks 'their era' is the best. when in actual fact all are the same, just require different skill sets to match the changing times.
which i suppose points out how good someone like senna was as he went from the very end of the turbo era in 1984, and adapted through the 80s to the beginning of the 90s :D

[blackwiggle]

I remember Murry Walker freaking out during the commentary at Sennas first year in F1 with Lotus, he knew at first sight that Senna was something special.

From practice through to qualifying Senna was just ruthlessly perfect.

I think when you watch the episode of Top Gear when they gave Lewis Hamilton the chance to drive Senna's 1980's turbo charged McLaren sum's up the awe and respect Senna still has with current F1 drivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTO8I_jPWXU

[MegaGeeza22]

Thats a great video! i agree with you about people liking there era the best lol, as things change through time the skills required and the dangers also change...
My youth was spent watching damon hill and shumacher dogfighting with my dad whilst eating my sunday roast... good times

Great video blackwiggle, never seen that before!

[KGB]

I don't know if there was any more skill involved back then but it was a whole lot more interesting with a lot of drivers capable of winning. For a while it became very predictable with the Schumacher years, someone who I never liked, a great driver of course but zero personality. It has got back to those great days again in the last few seasons and I'm enjoying watching the racing again.

[Oryx Crake]

You know I actually sort of remember the news after the crash I was 8 at the time so it's all a little foggy but I do remember some or the reporting and some of the shots they had in the news... absolutely terrible business all around.

I think I'm going to have to give this documentary a watch.

[blackwiggle]

It was a bit boring for about 3 years [88-90] when it was either Frost or Senna winning pretty much all the races in their Mclaren's.
It wasn't until Williams finally became competitive with Mansell when he moved from Ferrari in 91 that the McLaren parade stopped.

[slimjim]

i went and to see it earlier on its a good film

[Medusa]

Finally managed to get a DVD of this...the footage is so completely surreal. I'm still awed by how much material there is out there. I'd love to find the long version as I only got the 106 minute disc. But the subtitles were horrible!
Does anyone here have the blu-ray or the 2 disc extended version? Are the subtitles any better on that? I wanted to get one as a present for my dad, I'm not giving him a DVD which takes basic english adjectives and subtitles them as completely different words...
Plus, near the end there is heartbreaking scene of three Japanese commentators and there's no subtitles on that section at all. I got a bit out of it but my pa will get nothin'.

[Nutcase:259]

funny i should see this pop up, you read my mind ;). I finally watched this film yesterday after my friend bought it, and was thinking about posting. :)

I have the 2 disc version on dvd not blu-ray. i didn't see anything wrong with the subtitling? which parts exactly?

Pretty awesome film/bio, its amazing to think its all real life, the whole thing is like a hollywood script, i think maybe it would have been better if they had explained a bit more of the before he got to f1 side of things. I know they can only cram so much in but it was a bit like, Karting straight to his 6th ever f1 race in the toleman at monaco with little information between the two, that could have been explained a little better.

The end is pretty sad, seeing them do CPR on Ratzenberger, knowing full well what's gonna happen. Im glad they dont slow down the crashes, it really hits home how quickly its all over.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

I have the Blu Ray (the "triple play" edition that also comes with the DVD and download code). I'll take a quick look at it later to see how the subtitles are. I don't remember them spoiling the film, but then I've come to expect awful subtitles, so maybe I just didn't notice. :lol

Really great film. So much footage and edited so well.

[Medusa]

The parts where the subs were particularly bad (enough that I remember distinctly...) was in the intro. It subtitled the English speech as well. Senna clearly says "no politics" and the subs read "no policy"...etc. When Senna's mother is speaking, even though she is clearly identified onscreen, the subtitles identify her and at the same time cut off the first half of whatever her sentence was (too bad I don't understand Portuguese...) so the sentence reads "Senna's mother blah blah blah". Then, the most glaring part for me was after his last crash, the three Japanese commentators speaking for 1 or 2 minutes (it felt intolerably long when you're crying :redface: ) and there were NO subtitles at all. I can't say it ruined the film but it did get awfully distracting at times.
The disc I have is the international NTSC (region free) version, 106 mins long. (An official release, not a bootleg/rip HK copy.)
Other than blaming the disc, I do remember my PS3 giving me strange subtitles on an anime series quite awhile back. When I watched the same series on a DVD player, the subs were different and much more coherent. I wonder if this is the problem again...I'll have to take it to a friend's place to find out I guess.
EDIT: It is definitely the disc. Just a warning, if anyone is shopping for Senna, don't buy the all region NTSC DVD, the subtitles are horrendous. One more subtitling error. Prost says "****!". The subtitles read "Drugs!" :lol Just like Google translate...

This doc makes me crazy to watch those races in their entirety. Fantastic driving, watching him pull those cars back into control when they clearly want to go elsewhere was unbelievable! Plus the one handed Monaco racing. Whoa!!

[UB3R~JKP]

Have the Special Edition DVD, Went to the cinema to see it. Brought a tear to my eye.

[kaori]

In France, the film was released on May 25th, 2011 on the screens, only in 2 cinemas : one at Nice and an other at Paris (and of course, a cinema at Monaco). I was very lucky to be at Paris at this period for my job, so I could see it in a little cinema, around 80 seats, all filled of course.
I was 8,5 years old at this 1st May, I heard Senna died in an accident, and I cried. Senna was my hero when I was young. He often raced in my room in his F1 Majorette and he won several times my world championship of little toy cars. But once I understood how to be promoted in best teams, I personnaly beat him on his game "Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II" with my Megadrive.
I didn't know lot of things about the backyard stories before seeing the movie, the 2 episodes about the last chicane at Suzuka was unreal. It's a very good documentary with awesome sequences of racing, interview and other things about the other side of the sport.

[mangaroo]

Have to say I haven't always been the biggest fan of f1 racing. I'd say mostly because I never really got the sense of speed they must have been feeling driving around from the tv. Watching those old f1 cars with the mounted cameras going round that track was incredible though. Going to try and find as much footage like that as I can, could watch that all day!

[Colonel]

I got Senna on DVD as a present a few months back. I've watched it 3 times now, it's incredible. I remember Senna dying even though I was just a child at the time. I'd highly recommend this film to anybody, whether you like F1 or not.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

The parts where the subs were particularly bad (enough that I remember distinctly...) was in the intro. It subtitled the English speech as well. Senna clearly says "no politics" and the subs read "no policy"...etc. When Senna's mother is speaking, even though she is clearly identified onscreen, the subtitles identify her and at the same time cut off the first half of whatever her sentence was (too bad I don't understand Portuguese...) so the sentence reads "Senna's mother blah blah blah". Then, the most glaring part for me was after his last crash, the three Japanese commentators speaking for 1 or 2 minutes (it felt intolerably long when you're crying :redface: ) and there were NO subtitles at all. I can't say it ruined the film but it did get awfully distracting at times.
I watched these parts on my PS3. They seemed to be fine on Blu Ray and DVD (Blu Ray has English SDH subtitles, on or off, and DVD has subtitles for foreign language parts only, always on). The English part from the intro was accurate, and Senna's mother was subtitled. But I didn't hear any Japanese commentators after the fatal crash, just a few words in Portugese, before the voice of Sid Watkins (or are we talking about one of his crashes at Suzuka?).

This is the version I have (it didn't cost this much when I bought it, though!): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Senna-Triple-Play-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B0057DI0AC/ref=sr_1_3?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1341009218&sr=1-3
Not sure if it's region-free or not.

This doc makes me crazy to watch those races in their entirety. Fantastic driving, watching him pull those cars back into control when they clearly want to go elsewhere was unbelievable! Plus the one handed Monaco racing. Whoa!!
Yeah, I still love the F1 of today, but the cars are "too good" in some ways :lol. Seeing Senna (and also Mansell, Prost, Piquet, and others, though Senna seemed to have a special talent when there was barely any grip, like in the wet or with worn tyres) managing to control those beasts is something else.
It's a shame the full races have never had a release (my dad and I would have spent a fortune on them if they had! :D), but most still exist from old TV recordings. I think a few are on Youtube (I might upload a couple of 1986 races sometime, as I have the whole season, but I don't have Monaco 1987 or any of Senna's great McLaren races, unfortunately).

[Medusa]

Thanks very much for checking MrSmad. I should have clarified that part with the commentators is a few minutes after his fatal crash, very near the end of the film, but before they go into the reaction in Brazil.

As regards his other races...I did come across this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AYRTON-SENNA-HISTORY-1960-1994-JAPAN-Laserdisc-Obi-PILW-1171-/280902670730?pt=US_Laserdisc&hash=item41671a998a Looks very interesting but too bad it's laserdisc.

It would be awesome if F1 ever began releasing their archival footage, heck even if they did highlights of a season, season by season it would be lovely. Where are the cash cow minded thinkers in F1 now? They could really augment their advertising revenue with DVD sales.

The North American bluray gets released July 10 (yes, this year. Finally.) so maybe I'll pick up the bluray. Thanks again.

[Nutcase:259]

(I might upload a couple of 1986 races sometime, as I have the whole season, but I don't have Monaco 1987 or any of Senna's great McLaren races, unfortunately).

if your gonna upload be prepared for the wrath of Formula one management, anything thats isnt uploaded by them is removed pretty quick. Bernie even tried to copyright the words Grand Prix, i remember reading in autosport a few years back about the producers of the senna documentary approaching Bernie Eccelstone about making the film, they said that theyd watched old footage on youtube and that inspired them, his reply wasn't about the film, he was more interested in having the footage removed :lol

@Medusa you can get highlights of classic races on the bbc website but you might be for uk users only, there are a few f1archive sites i know but posting them is probably against the rules :?