Health Care in America....

[greenymac]

I first off would like to say that I am a believer in universal health care...I see health care as a basic human right and necessity and not something that should be exploited for gain which I feel happens in my country all the time...I don't feel that just becasue you get sick or injured the costs incurred from it to cripple your livelihood and make you unable to contribute the way you normally would to society. But, here in America selfishness and greed supercede human dignity and it makes me sick... As an example, please take 10 minutes to read through this thread on a college football messae board. This thread was started by a man who terribly dislikes President Obama and any of his policies. The people responding are not pundits but all college football fans from all over our country so they're mostly just your average joe...if you post a response in this thread please take the time to read the thread I'm linking you to now:

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2150&tid=158482800&mid=158482800&sid=1144&style=2

I would like to know what you think of this? I mean I feel not only are the insurance companies that gouge us are selfish but also the normal people who just feel like if you can't afford health care you should just die. What kind of crap is that??? I mean it's crazy on the face of it...The Republican Party here in America is supposed to be this oh so "Christian" . They are dominated by Christianity yet they also want to not take care of the sick and just let you die becasue you ca't afford great healthcare... This is the kind of crap that is destroying my country and most of the people are too stupid and ignorant to realize that...I posted this because I want your views on this. So please. Discuss.

Also, here is another thread...If you don't read anything else, at least read the first post.
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2150&tid=158496635&mid=158496635&sid=1144&style=2

[Aeroracer]

I know people who live in america ..

the americans do not like their health care system for reasons you mentioned..
but the english people i know who move to america or are thinking of moving well.....its alwasy the same their first concern is us health care what if i get ill what if something happens..

in uk we have national health which is ok..it has its problems..

but my issue with halthcare in western world is the price of it..it to expensive.

richest companies are the pharmacuticle companys and surgeons who charge what they like because you will pay to get better..

our nation health service which we all pay for is raped and ripped off by private companys who overcharge for products and services

my govenment should use every available bit of cash they have to buy pharmasuticle companys and pruduce there own medicine and run these cowboys out of town..we should work in partnership with usa too cos i think they are ready to do something to look after their people and not let these rip off artists rob them of their money

[mdhay]

In all fairness Greenymac, anything that has any sort of religious influence of any kind should not be in control. After all, Christianity does make people do good things under the pretense of getting rewarded instead of it simply being the right thing to do, so it in itself breeds corruption. My apologies to those I've offended by that observation.

All governments act like this, really. Granted, not through the same method, but our governments want our money. If they could, they'd put a bullet in our heads and take it that way. It's not just America, it's the entire planet. Humanity being like this by nature is a better way of explaining it.

[MegaGeeza22]

Today people live a lot longer, i think its fair to charge people if they want a long life because these doctors need to be paid and cures are expensive and take alot of time and effort to create.
What annoys me is free health care... it costs us to much in taxes, example - I know a woman who had breast implants FREE on the NHS because she claimed that having small breasts made her depressed... this sort of thing happens alot and it makes me sick!
If you want cures and a long life you should be willing to pay, if i had a choice between my mortgage or medical treatment to save my life i would choose to save my life and be grateful that these treatments exist.

[greenymac]

@mdhay I believe religion also has no place in politics and that is one of the biggest problems. I am atheist/agnostic and have no specific belief and hate it when people try to bring crazy ideals into government. And Mega, thats exactly what I mean... If you can pay for better specialists by all means o ahead, but what I'm griping about is the accessibility of quality care...

[mdhay]

There's a funny story about my ex in there somewhere, but that's for another thread. :')

[MegaGeeza22]

This is a good one (i think lol)
In the near future people will be able to buy silicone implants to replace their internal organs like the kidneys, lungs and heart and they will last for hundreds of years and prevent most illnesses and diseases. These implants are already in the making so it is a reality but they will be extremely expensive...
So the rich will be able to live for 500 - 1000 years but the poorer public will live for 70 - 100 years. Is that fair? i believe it is

[mdhay]

It's not really fair, is it?

[Aeroracer]

paying for health care isnt the issue its the price you pay..its a rip off.check out the profits from phamacuticle companys..the directors of hospitals and many surgeons..they charge what they like cos its pay or die syndrome..

same with private vets they are thieving b****ds

@mega...never heard about what you are talking about ..where can i get some of these new organs..i want some silicone kidneys and maybe a spare heart just in case :p

[DJ Techno]

T
@mdhay I believe religion also has no place in politics and that is one of the biggest problems. I am atheist/agnostic and have no specific belief and hate it when people try to bring crazy ideals into government. And Mega, thats exactly what I mean... If you can pay for better specialists by all means o ahead, but what I'm griping about is the accessibility of quality care...

Then you'll love the movie Priest


Now about health care. So the UK has a national system and Canada I remember has that too, at a age thing.


I want to see this country have national health care. U can't say damn really about taxes.
Medicare is already taken out of a persons paycheck. Or well those who get paid that way and not under the table.

So being taxed for national healthcare, when ur taxed for Medicare for your grandparents and when u get old. I say hush it.
Learn to not spend so much even if u are being paid minimum wage up to salary and commission.

Medical bills and hospitals charge so much for even a night over er
The regular insurance companies will only pay a percent of the bill and its not enough.
The regular insurance companies in the past.
Would turn down hiv/aids victims, depending condition cancer patient, and about fifty plus other medical serious problems to allow them to live the life as you, middle class motha ****a, upper class sucker, and back to lower class.

Everybody has and wants to live longer or live period. And regular insurance companies in the past and present still make restrictions and high fee cost that up to only big five, six and seven figure workers can afford.

And you want to gripe about its a cut out of your pocket.
And you want to gripe like the republicans end up getting partly their way. The national health care system Obama planned and made. Was originally not suppose to give corporations breaks and the rich a break.

So for you supporters of what the republicans wanted instead of equal and nothing shorting the American people.

Go stick your head in the sand. And beat yaself. You can't cry about a tax cost out of your paycheck. It's already been happening since Medicare. The Medicare that supports the elderly, young, and less fortuneit. Because you or who ever runs life about being rich and getting more. Just doesn't know the meaning help and work with ur fellow man. Some where in a bible and more those words are said.

Oh well green your atheists, whatever but even their denomination or religion knows that some where.

[JABBERJAW]

A higher percent of people in this country do not want public health care, that is a fact. Do I think everyone should be able to get health care, YES. Should we be forced to buy it , N0,that is socialism, not what this country is about, we have enough bullshit laws already, govt controlling every damn thing, when they have no right to based on our constitution. P
We should not pay for non citizens health care, California's debt equals the amount they spend on illegals. I think there should be a compromise here, do not put private insurance out of business, but those businesses that do not offer hc, Then the govt can offer a plan to them based on the avg of private insurance. This way private business can survive And people who cannot get it, have a way to get it. people should not be fined for not getting it, in our constitution, you cannot have forced commerce. also, Elective procedures SHOULD NOT be included in health care, that is crap to try and sneak that in. aLSO, govt should not take total control of 16%of our economy, they do not spend money wisely, Democrats OR republicans. yEs, the cost is way too high, make it better. stop wasting our money, for example on a 600$ toilet seat
On a side note, there seems to be people on here who like to insult Christians every chance they get, did it ever occur to you that you are probably insulting people on this forum every time you do this?

[MegaGeeza22]

JABBERJAW..... People who are Not religious get offended when they hear people speaking about god and their religion... I enjoy not being tied down by a religion and when i hear a religious person preaching about their beliefs its offensive to what i believe in. just like when i say i dont believe in all these different gods... thats also offensive.
Some people think its wrong that religion always stands in the way of everything and thats very annoying for the non religious community.
So dont think religious people are the only ones offended because its a 2 way street :nod

[DJ Techno]

oh hes not on religion mix. just doing something that comes up later by others


keeping the bullshitters mouth closed.

but al, sure you didn't just say the things about medicare, or well what they should add for it.

cause i rather have medicare then choose blue cross, some other company and another, another and another

[infoxicated]

I'm not entirely sure when this became the primary politics and religion discussion board, but as has been demonstrated time and again; there are people on here who cannot debate these topics without resorting to confrontational posturing.

Either you all keep things sensible or I completely veto the discussion of politics or religion on here.

Anyone who over steps the mark will have their posting privileges suspended for ten days.

[blackwiggle]

The major question is what is ANY Government, regardless of the country supposed to be doing for it people?

Historically it was that a Government was supposed to represent it's peoples best interests.
It was supposed to organize and keep running the collective necessities at the most efficient and cost effective manner for the people that elected it.
Clean water, Clean air, some form of protection - both personally & financially and culturally.
Basic health care got added to that shortly after the first WW.
The majorly with the first repatriation bills at the first Genevra convention [as I understand it, not 100%]

What's happened, worldwide, that has knocked this ideal on it's head, and made this previously working model now none functioning is Globalization.

What caused Globalization?

Corporations & Conglomerates

Governments are now basically dysfunctional versions of a once working model of democracy.
They still need people to run them, but, over the years due to various levels over the decades of ineptitude, coercion, bribery, blackmail, theft & thuggery by coperate interests, these positions of trust have been manipulated into "Earners".
Short term gain for the person that holds the post and/or get the commissions earned for supplying the goods & services needed to carry them out, over the years these corruptions have become accepted practice, and since been factored into expenses by Governments.
To the extent we have now days.

...................
You had huge corruption in the USA during WWII with Government contracts given out by the first Roosevelt administration.
It was the USA's next president after Roosevelt, Harry Truman that discovered and exposed the vast majority of them, but also made the mistake of choosing to keep a lot of FDR's people in power, so the rot stayed on and thrived after he got voted out.
The biggest culprits though, and the duo that stand head and tails above all others in this are Rupert Murdoch & George Bush Senior.

GB Senior was not only the former head of the CIA, he was also the former head of the World Bank.
Rupert Murdoch in 1995 went to buy FOX, cut a long story short he stuffed up financially, the banks were calling for his blood and would of taken him down if it wasn't for the intervention of GB Senior.
A phone call, a "Contra Deal" struck.
Well they have been "MATES" ever since.
And hasn't it shown, and "a favor or two" been shown back to the Republicans over the years, with interest from where I sit viewing events in Australia via FOX owned media.

Interesting site if you want a look.;)
http://www.eternalcode.com/category/corruption

[JABBERJAW]

wasn't saying our system is perfect, but the care given at hospitals is good here. A higher percent in every poll do not want this universal health care. It is for a variety of reasons, but the main one being is we don't want more govt control, it is already too much, far too much. They steal money and waste it time and again. Why give them more control?

ONly 47 percent of our population pay federal tax, you cannot tax big business time and again, they are already getting screwed with this, and who pays, us. for these reasons

1) IF say, costco's taxes go up 5 percent, our prices will go up 5 - 10 percent for their products. They companies will not lose money, but we will because they are getting taxed even more. They may be greedy, who knows, but this is how it works. It is either this, or the govt can do everything for us, and have the entire economy go down the tubes

2 you do not have to put every confrontational subject into this health care bill. Since half the population lets say, does not agree with abortion, WHY would you put it in? Put in stuff that people are not choosing, like Cancer treatment, that is neccesary. I don't want to pay for someones facelift for example, but if they got burned in a fire, I think everyone would agree that someone should get treatment for it

3) It would be great if we could live in a star trek society, but the reality is, people are greedy, they make a business to make money, not to do OK. Also, people can be lazy if given a chance. My niece and son in law for a while lived off the govt, no working for 3 years!! taking our tax dollars. Both were more than capapable of working. They had not medical issues, nothing. They also had many friends like this. If you want a prosperous society, and say games like wipeout, you need these businesses out there to HIRE people. If they did not make alot of money, they would hire less people, AND RAISE prices. (ok this number went a few different directions)

That being said, don't raise our taxes even more, not on anyone. Our gvt has enough, if it didn't waste it


As far as how this came into being, very bad on both sides, I don't enough time to write it right now (working :) )


Universal Health care bill written, over 2000 pages long
1) Democrats= who wrote it? Oh, lets vote for it
2) Republicans= who wrote it? OH, lets vote against it
NOONE read this bill, not democrats, not republicans, not even the president. When asked about a specific topic, the president said he did not know that was in there, and that it would be taken care of later. This is not ok. They forced a quick vote to get it through while democrats still held power, and still no one read the entire thing. IF you are going to vote for something, shouldn’t you know exactly what it says, then debate it? Then add or remove items, then vote on it, just like every other bill is done.

When asked if they would take this health care, Republicans and democratic congressman all said NO, they would not take it, because they already have health care (read better care). Shouldn’t they be willing to take the health care if it is good? Shouldn’t they be obliged to take something they are making us take?

I think yes is the answer to that.

[MegaGeeza22]

I'm not entirely sure when this became the primary politics and religion discussion board, but as has been demonstrated time and again; there are people on here who cannot debate these topics without resorting to confrontational posturing.

Either you all keep things sensible or I completely veto the discussion of politics or religion on here.

Anyone who over steps the mark will have their posting privileges suspended for ten days.
I was just trying to stop an argument from happening.... posting privileges lol.
Cant you just ban me for life? it would be much appreciated lol,
thanks :+

[blackwiggle]

Only if Wolves get relegated:bomb

[JABBERJAW]

noone was here preaching or promoting their religion, this is a wipeout site. I haven't heard anyone put down buddist, islam, athiesm, ect, just christianity. I don't think there is any reason to insult anyone over thier beliefs on this site.

If I don't want to listen to a jehovah's witness talk to me at my door, I just would ask them to leave, not put them down, even though I don't believe in what they are saying, or if I was getting preached to in a downtown square, I can just go to a different spot if I don't want to hear it. This is a wipeout site however, and really the only place to be with other people who like this game, there is no other option but here, so If I didn't want to hear insults, I would also not be able to talk about my favorite game. People need to be more sensitive to others here. I am sure there are lots of things people think about other religions, non religions ect, but you should think twice before posting an insult, and to who might come to this site. I think Rob had a good idea, no politics at all. That is what we have at the North American Wipeout Tournament, and that works really well, and we have alot more fun in the process

[DJ Techno]

damn right.

now if anyone from the states also paid attention

the lovely senators you all elected to be in Congress also shutdown a 2 billion dollar tax cut from the oil companies of the big five that are making 14 trillion in revenue a year.


BETTER BE THANKING GOD, THAT CRAP DIDN'T FLY.

the health care system and medicare really the tax cuts go to the people who are less forthcoming in income and still the middle class below 100, 000 a year. .


you the big five in oil
you the big three and plus the import companies bmw, nissan, toyota, honda, acura, scion, and the rest that have their factories in our country for cheaper cost to import their cars here.
big banks bank of america ( i spit at you ), wells fargo, chase, and i think one more.

the removal of tax cuts and further tax cuts they have. would turn around money build up for health care nation wide.

it would put the money people been waiting on for tax returns quicker. and whatever happened to stimulus money that goes toward your tax return. well what the hell.

[JABBERJAW]

The other bank is "bank of america" horrible bank.

The only thing that would stop these gas companies is not a stop on tax breaks. All they will do is raise prices, and there is no way to get around paying for gas(unless you are rich enough to buy one of those sardine cars). ONly way would be to put a gas price cap on the prices. BUT do you really want govt to have even more control. LOSE-LOSE situation either way.

[DJ Techno]

you know what.. people forgot that supposely the information in the health care reform.

was it not, the information in it, suppose to be visible to the public some how. like really all the eyes in congress and the senate get to see that big thick ass report and idea. but in our country their is such a thing a public information.


wheres the information on the whole thing the shows what obama wanted and what he had to cut. to get it to pass because of them retarded elephants and wanted to keep money in the pockets of those who keep them fatso's in office.

show everybody, anybody who could stand to read the entire idea of us health care reform for all citizens. be they are a legal citizen. and i don't think or well it probably already counted. the illegal citizens.