Wipeout 3 SE on US PS2

[modusop]

Can someone tell me what options there are to play Wipeout 3 SE (PAL of course), on an NTSC US Playstation 2? This is my favorite game, and I would love to see it with texture mapping set to smooth... :wink:

[Task]

Absolutely none unless you've modded your PS2. In which case it becomes just like playing it on a modded PSX. Either have a copy of SE that will play on an NTSC system (I get the impression you've got that) or have a system that can handle PAL.

[Hybrid Divide]

And how would I go about getting either a copy that will work on NTSC, or just get a copy period?

[modusop]

Well, I do have the PAL one - on my PS1 I was able to use a swap disk technique to play this particular game...is there any kind of mod that works for this? I've heard of the plug mod- how can these be obtained?

[Task]

VL: zargz and I are on a quest... The Quest For The Holy Grail! No, wait, that's a different quest. He's helping me find the perfect version of SE that'll play on an NTSC system. So far we've got one that works but the game screen is larger than the TV screen. As soon as I can get my hands on this theoretical "ultimate disk" (I have no idea what process is being used to create them, I just rate 'em when I get 'em) then I can see myself sending a couple copies around. If you manage to find this legendary disc before I do, let me know. 8 )

modusop: I'm not kidding, you'll hafta mod your PS2 to get that to work. And I mean with a PS2 mod chip. I'd go for the good one if I were you, not the one that requires a GameShark (what an incredible piece of crap). modchip.ca is the best place I know.

[zargz]

hey modusop & welcome 2the board! 8)

do u c the thrust bar when u play this wo3se cd on your nysc machine(ps1 or ps2)?

[modusop]

Now if I were to buy a mod chip from one of these places, would I have to install it myself with solder and all that? Also, is that particular site (modchip.ca) reliable, or are they like the back of a van on the 'net? Thanks for all the replies!

[Task]

If they weren't reliable, I wouldn't have suggested them.
When I modded my PSX, they're where it came from.
They offer a lot of different things, go read about each one, figure out which one you want, there are details there about whether or not soldering is required. They always offer to do the work for you.
You're going to have to do your own research, I'm afraid. This is one of those "facts of life" that you might have heard of. Nice try, trying to get someone else to do it for you.

Good Luck,
J (Task)

[modusop]

So have any of you successfully played Wo3SE on the PS2 and with what exact configuration?

[zargz]

do u c the thrust bar when u play this wo3se cd on your nysc machine(ps1 or ps2)?

[modusop]

Am I to assume that no one on these forums has successfully played Wipeout 3 SE on an NTSC Playstation 2?

[Lance]

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modusop, zargz has asked you a question [ twice, since you posted later without answering]. would you respond to it, please?
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[modusop]

Sorry I must have posted that response elsewhere. It depends on the tv you use. This game has a larger picture than a normal NTSC game, so some of the screen will be cut off. If you center the image, it will indeed cut off the bottom of the HUD.

[Lance]

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nice try modusop ;) but you didn't post anything elsewhere. at the time i write this, you have 6 posts and all of them are in this thread. but anyway, thanks for responding. [i'm sorry for pointing out the *coff* oversight, but sometimes i just feel compelled to track stuff down . :roll: :) ][i have a perfectionist streak that gets unevenly applied. like for instance, it doesn't get applied to my housecleaning]
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[zargz]

lance: thanks4help :D
modusop: I suspected that ..

[modusop]

I was referring to another board where I was asked a similar question. This is pretty bizarre treatment of a poster, especially at a site that is low volume such as this. I only came requesting the answer to a question of mine, not to be critiqued by a moderator. I will still view this site, but due to this, I will no longer post.

[Lance]

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i'm sorry you feel that way. you didn't mention that you had asked on another board so i didn't know about that; but you were rude to one of your fellow members on this board, where you asked a question and were likewise answered here, but when he ''only came requesting the answer to a question'', you did not answer him or in any way take note of his existence. i feel i was justified in pointing this out. your reply that you may have possibly answered the question elsewhere seems to me like merely evading responsibility. if you just did a brief act of unintended incivility, then just admit it, no problem. just a small oversight. but to claim that someone's pointing it out to you is bizarre and unusual treatment, seems to me to be untrue. is it also bizarre to point out fallacies in a statement? if the correction of incivilities is bizarre and unusual, then the standards of the places where it is considered such are too low. i hope that you agree that this is so and will continue to post.

as always, all members of these forums, including you, are free to point out to me anything in which i have been unfair or guilty of false rationalisations or of overstepping the duties of a moderator
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[JABBERJAW]

get the messiah mod chip. The patched version of wipeout 3se I have hides the turbo bar, but is still easily playable(fast though). You should just get a pal tv for a couple hunded bucks(20 inch) and then you will get the full picture if you are that worried about the energy bar(you'll also need a pal ps1 or ps2 or you'll get crappy colors). Best Option=== get a playstation emulator for the pc and get the real game unpatched, it should look awesome.

[Gonaka]

howdy, my first copy of Wip3out I played was a modded version that allowed me to play either PAL or NTSC at the start, which is beneficial if your trying for the fastest times here :p
It did require that you have a modified Playstation - I used a Password card thingy. did anyone else have this kind of Wip3out?

[Gonaka]

...forgot to mention, I used ePSXe on the PC to play Wip3out SE, only trouble is, that there is no CD sound, but CD sound works in most other games. Does anybody else get this?

[Lance]

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hi /.L1B3R7Y_
welcome back to the wz. new name, huh?

i'm not sure this is relevant to what you said, but i have a PC version of Carmegeddon-Carpocalypse Now that i downloaded from a disc [man, the cars are really slow and clumsy][so are the pedestrians!], and it only had sound as long as i had the borrowed CD [forgive me, i knew not what i did]. without it, there is no sound. apparently it is like Wipeout in using normal music track format instead of compressed files

btw, i have the wipeout winAmp skin that you made. got it from the WinAmp site a long time ago
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[zargz]

liberty: .. :D .. guys where u get the ideas 4 u nicks huh ? ( well guess I'm not the right 1 2 ask :lol: )
i got a similar wo3 cd where in the beginnig u get to choose pal or ntsc BUT
it's ONLY pal! Even if u choose the ntsc in the beginning! goes like this:
got both my pal and ntsc game saves on the same memrycard. when I put in the ntsc disc and load game i get the ntsc save same with my orig pal disk. this 1 where u can choose pal/ntsc even if I take ntsc @ 1st the times that r loaded r the pal times!

[JABBERJAW]

yeah, it was a modified pal game that can be played on a modified ntsc system with the right colors. However, even though you can choose between the two, the times should only be entered in pal tables, because the time clock is still set to the pal game. I'm not sure if there is a modified ntsc version you can play on pal, but I'm sure it can be done.

if anyone is interested in modifying games with patches, there are a ton of them on
megagames.com, I don't know how to do the modifications but I'm sure you can find out on this site.

[Gonaka]

yea, that's what I think, even tho it says it goes to NTSC, I think it just does a PAL but with a diferent resolution. It still runs faster tho, so now I'm confused

[zargz]

/.L1B3R7Y_ : u have a pal psx so .. u better go get wo3se b4 they totaly run out of them in the stores!

[vh5150]

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=216 or
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=566

Search this topic. I have done it and plays fine, colors and all. The bar can be seen if you set the video to 0,0. As far as screen size it is at 352 by 288 which is the way PAL is. I will one day look into trying to set the size to 352 by 240.

I already asked vezz if there is a way to do it he said yes, but he no longer is doing any updates to his app. And I am not apt enough to hack an app or compile anything for that matter. Besides the p4u page is dead. The tools are around though.

Try http://www.geocities.com/first_wizard_zorrander/ntsc2pal.html

There are codes for the video mode but not size.

[JABBERJAW]

the time runs faster as well, so it is still equivalent to playing regular 3se on a pal system regardless whether you choose pal or ntsc

[Lance]

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everything runs faster except the player's reflexes? ;)
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[JABBERJAW]

exactly right, so It's harder modded than not modded.,

[Gonaka]

Yea I got it last year and never looked back! heh, Wip3out SE i mean!

[Lance]

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Al: so does that mean that going in the other direction, an NTSC version played on a modded PAL machine would be easier than playing it on an NTSC machine?
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[JABBERJAW]

The modded machine I don't believe matters. What matters is if the GAME was modified so the colors would be proper. A patch was added to wo3se to fix the colors and so the screen would fit properly. IF a ntsc game was modified to fit properly on an pal tv and work on a modified pal system, then you would be correct on that, it would be easier. I don't think Iv'e seen a game modified like this before, but I'm sure it happens. It may not need to be modified to fix the colors though because the pal tv has more lines of resolution, so It should fit no problem. All theoretical of course :D

[xEik]

I've sometimes played previews from Japanese developpers that warned that the game was still in development and what you got to play was more or less a patched NTSC Japanese version that could be played in a PAL system. They warned that the screen was 12% or so smaller (vertically that is) and that the game was indeed slower than the PAL version that could purchased some months later. The last has to do with the refresh rate and the way the game is programmed to adapt itself to it.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[JABBERJAW]

does that mean it moves at 50/60 of the speed, jsut as 3se moved at 60/50 of the originals speed from pal to ntsc

[xEik]

You are right. An NTSC game creates 60 frames to show 1 second of movement. A PAL system will only display the first 50 of this frames during this second, the remaining 10 frames will be shown during the following second. It makes the game seem to move slower. It's just a question of refresh rate.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[vh5150]

I can not figure it out why is it when I play Wipeout PAL it plays fast on my usa ps2. While wipeout 2097 (PAL) plays slow on the same machine?

They are both converted by using p4u.

[adam917]

I can not figure it out why is it when I play Wipeout PAL it plays fast on my usa ps2. While wipeout 2097 (PAL) plays slow on the same machine?

They are both converted by using p4u.

Just the resolution is changed but, not refresh rate (Hz). In the US and Japan, electricity is 60 Hz. Almost everywhere else, it's 50 Hz. So, a NTSC (60 Hz) game will run slower than normal on a PAL system because PAL shows 50 Hz, not 60. A PAL (50 Hz) game will run at 60 Hz on an NTSC system (faster than normal). Is all that happens when a game is patched to fit a certain video format is the resolution is changed. NTSC uses 320x240. PAL uses 320x288 (or were those numbers 320x240 for NTSC and 352x240 for PAL???). The picture is stretched to fit PAL in an NTSC-PAL conversion and it's shunk in a PAL-NTSC conversion. I hope this explained enough. To play games at the right speed, you just need seperate 50 & 60 Hz game systems.

[vh5150]

Maybe I didn't clarify that these two games are both PAL and it is the gameplay that is affected and not the refesh rates. One game is slow in gameplay the other is fast in gameplay.

The color is matched right and the frame sizes are the same as well. Try playing a [cdr] pal disc on a ntsc ps you'll see what I mean when I talk about color matching. For the colorburst signal NTSC uses 3.58 Mhz. I don't know what PAL/SECAM uses. So it's not anything to do with the different video standards.

Besides my Wipeout 3: Special Edition plays with no problems on my NTSC PS2.

[adam917]

I can not figure it out why is it when I play Wipeout PAL it plays fast on my usa ps2. While wipeout 2097 (PAL) plays slow on the same machine?

They are both converted by using p4u.

Just the resolution is changed but, not refresh rate (Hz). In the US and Japan, electricity is 60 Hz. Almost everywhere else, it's 50 Hz. So, a NTSC (60 Hz) game will run slower than normal on a PAL system because PAL shows 50 Hz, not 60. A PAL (50 Hz) game will run at 60 Hz on an NTSC system (faster than normal). Is all that happens when a game is patched to fit a certain video format is the resolution is changed. NTSC uses 320x240. PAL uses 320x288 (or were those numbers 320x240 for NTSC and 352x240 for PAL???). The picture is stretched to fit PAL in an NTSC-PAL conversion and it's shunk in a PAL-NTSC conversion. I hope this explained enough. To play games at the right speed, you just need seperate 50 & 60 Hz game systems.

Maybe I didn't clarify that these two games are both PAL and it is the gameplay that is affected and not the refesh rates. One game is slow in gameplay the other is fast in gameplay.

The color is matched right and the frame sizes are the same as well. Try playing a [cdr] pal disc on a ntsc ps you'll see what I mean when I talk about color matching. For the colorburst signal NTSC uses 3.58 Mhz. I don't know what PAL/SECAM uses. So it's not anything to do with the different video standards.

Besides my Wipeout 3: Special Edition plays with no problems on my NTSC PS2.

Where can I get Wipeout 3: Special Edition in the US? I'm aware that it's PAL.

[vh5150]

I bought two copies from the UK and Australia a while back on ebay.com.

[Lance]

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would you guys please stop quoting each other quoting each other?
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[adam917]

Where can I get Wipeout 3: Special Edition in the US? I'm aware that it's PAL.

I bought two copies from the UK and Australia a while back on ebay.com.

OK, what do I need to play it on a US PS1 (old grey kind with model # SCPH-7501)? I have a Game Enhancer that stops a US CD so it can be swapped with a backup or import to play. It will boot up fine but, will the game actually run the same as an NTSC version, as I'm playing it on a US (NTSC) PS1? I just hope I don't need a converter because the picture is completely messed up. In that case, I'd probably be forced to play it on an emulator when I get it...

[Roger]

.would you guys please stop quoting each other quoting each other?
Lance, it would seem your message didn't hit home :wink:
I just had to quote you. Now my quotation quota has run out, though.

Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."

[Lance]

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it's already bad enough to quote a complete post when only one part of it is being referred to in one's reply, but to quote other posts that quote oneself is to compound the generation of useless visual trash that wastes the time of the readers and wastes bandwidth. please do not continue that annoying style of posting.

please read your private messages. i tend to send those before i comment in public. if you are not receiving them, then something in the message system is not functioning because my sentbox shows that they have been sent.

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to roger: at least you didn't quote me quoting yourself ;)
also the quote was both brief and relevant, plus the fact that it did not immediately follow the post being referenced.
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[vh5150]

To get back to adam's question.

Since you have the retail disc you will have to get cdrwin, p4u and eccregen to patch the .bin file to NTSC from PAL.

Once you patch it the color will be just fine and you do not need to convert it anymore.

If you have audio problems with the first audio track (TRACK 2) then refer to this guide:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=230

[adam917]

OK, I have CDRWIN but, where do I get P4U and "Eccregen" and exactly how do I use them? I have absolutely no programming experience. Now, what would the steps be from original insertion to completion?

Thanks...

[2003-08-07 23:12:49 UTC]

[vh5150]

They are tools for patching ps games. I can't hold your hand sorry.

There are already hints here and on other posts of mine.

[Lance]

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thanks for the edits, vh5150
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[AmishRobot]

This is a little late, but I have a tendencey to look at topics sporadically:

Lance, I think you're being a bit harsh in your moderation. Especially in regards to modusop; he was a new poster with some questions. If he was being rude (and I took it as carelessness, not rudeness), he would soon be regarded as a jerk, get ignored, and subsequently get bored and leave. I think we should be a bit more friendly to newcomers and cut them a little slack, as long as they're not being abusive or a nuisance.

This is among the best boards on the internet. It's full of intelligent people with interesting things to say, and distinctly lacking in spammers and trolls. I don't think it's necessary to be so strict in moderation.

[Lance]

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well-stated, James. good to hear your opinion. i just read back through the incident you're referring to. at the end of it, i mentioned that all of the members are, of course, free to state their opinions on my moderating. i both hoped and expected that there would be some comments; so far you are the first and only one since early March. let's hear from some more people about this; 'cause this forum sure as hell doesn't belong just to me.

maybe i was too harsh on modusop. my reasoning, if such it was, went like this: he might indeed be new to this forum, but he wasn't new to life and human interaction, and he's certainly not stupid. surely he had learned at some time that you just don't ignore other people who are talking to you unless you consider them totally unworthy of notice and respect. since he had posted immediately after zargz's question twice, and totally ignored him both times, it seemed to me to be deliberate rather than an oversight. how could he miss the posts when he's reading them to find an answer to his own question? was he so focussed on his own need for an answer that he couldn't reply to or even notice someone else's direct question to him? how would you feel if you were involved in a conversation with a few people and one of them persistently acted like you weren't there when you asked them direct questions. sure we could ignore such people in return till they go away, but do we really want to ignore bad behavior and let it continue till it dies out on its own, if it does that, or do we try to correct it? how long do we put up with disrespect? a day? a week? a month? what?

of the two basic choices of active or passive response, i've more often than not chosen the active method as being more suitable and effective, but naturally i could be wrong. perhaps which way works better depends on whom one is responding to, so that choosing predominantly one method cannot produce the best result.

you're right that these forums have few trolls or spammers; is that because we don't tolerate them long enough for them to get on a roll, or is it some other reason?

if we let them go too long, it destroys the friendliness of the forum, but the same destruction might also result from overly intense 'moderation'. a good balance is tricky.

more opinions, please
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[AmishRobot]

March?
:o

Whoops. I should pay more attention. :)

[Lance]

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doesn't matter whether it was March or August, you still have the right to comment on it, especially if it looks to you like it's a continuing trend. it's good that you did
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[xEik]

Well, it could matter but I don't think it is he point. It is true, though, that at the beginning of the year, the ambient in these forums was much more tense than it is now (fortunately) making tight moderation a necessary but sometimes unpleasant task (no pun intended). ;)

As has happened other times, written word can also make our satements sound harsher than they were intended.

The point is that modusop excuse sounded just like that, an excuse.
The kind we used to hear when we were 12 when a boy in class tried to get the benefit of the doubt from a teacher who was scolding him for something everyone knew he had done.

Maybe what modusop was indeed true, but sadly id didn't look like it. :-?

[vh5150]

No problem on editing. I just didn't see that adam and I were like next to each other.

Now we're just like off topic.

Adam:

Get to megagames they have many tools and guides there. I wish I can help you out but you just have to RTFM on this kinda stuff.

You don't need any programming skills just a knack for reading instructions.
Don't take it as harsh but I can't guide you.

You have to make the choice. You have to go through the door. I can only open it for you.

[adam917]

I recently went there and got (almost all) the tools required for doing this. My only question is: Are there any updated tools? Almost all of them are from 2000 or before... I'll follow the guide TO THE L-E-T-T-E-R... LOL

[vh5150]

the tools i told you about are old and so is wo3: se and they work for ps games still.

[adam917]

OK, thanks for the info.

[Flojomojo]

ePSXE 1.60 runs this disc perfectly on my Windows PC. :D :o 8) :) I don't understand why this was never released in the USA. It's not too late for Sony to make it a $10 bargain title...

[vh5150]

Wow an old post was replied ;)

What settings or plugins did you use? I have epsxe but haven't tried it yet other than Descent. I wanted to see if it can clean up graphics on those old psx games like the n64 emus do.

What video card do you have? I have a 7500 AIW Radeon.

[OddbOd]

yea, that's what I think, even tho it says it goes to NTSC, I think it just does a PAL but with a diferent resolution. It still runs faster tho, so now I'm confused

I think I know what's going on here, most PAL TV's support a mode called PAL60 which is, as the name implies, a PAL display running at 60Hz instead of the normal 50Hz this is why you still get a colour picture which would not happen if it was true NTSC. Basically you can't get correct NTSC output from an unmodified PAL console.

Amiga heads will know this from the good old days as it was a quick and easy way to speed up a lot of games, especially American titles (quite rare) that had been hacked for Euro gamers without having their timing corrected.

Playing a PAL title that has been NTSC patched should work correctly as the video encoder on an NTSC PSX/PS2 will always be outputting correct colour burst and vertical scan frequency, in-game timing should only be affected if it is derived from the video clock.

P.S. Apologies if anybody is annoyed by me dragging up an old thread but I thought somebody might find this info interesting/useful.

[Lance]

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no problem. i don't think the vagaries of NTSC and PAL interaction have ever been completely sorted out.

and btw, welcome to the WZ forums, OddbOd. :)
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[Rapier Racer]

How come we have these two different systems anyway? I thought that the TV was invented in America and therefore would be distributed around the world in the NTSC formatt

[Lance]

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reasonably frequent tv broadcasting started at nearly the same time in both england and america. the difference in scan line number and frame frequency was there at the beginning. until recently, i didn't know that a Briton named John Logie Baird was broadcasting from a studio in the old Crystal Palace at Sydenham until it burned down a few years later, about 1936 or possibly '37. Baird started his broadcasts in 1933. pretty close to the same time NBC was pioneering in America. there was no early monopoly the way there had been with Marconi's wireless telegraph
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[Rapier Racer]

I knew there were two guys trying to produce a TV John Logie Baird and an American guy that worked on a farm, but i was to understand that some big American firm came along, created their own TV and left those two out in the cold

[Lance]

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there were two guys that i know of working in america who invented the basics of tv hardware in the 1920s, but as far as i know, neither of them worked on a farm.

as a side note even farther off-topic, my family didn't have a tv until 1953 or 1954, when i was 10 or 11 respectively
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