Sony to use serial codes on games to stop hackers

[blackwiggle]

I saw this post while doing my rounds, seems a reliable source.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.ps3-sense.nl/2011/01/exclusief-sonys-volgende-zet-in-het-gevecht-tegen-piraterij/

[mdhay]

From what I can tell, the preowned market is going to be no more if this gets implemented.

[RJ O'Connell]

Good thing I don't own any pre-owned PS3 games. No, really, every PS3 game on disc that I own was bought brand new and unopened, even Ridge Racer 7. Well, there was F1CE, which I traded in...it'd be interesting to see if they're ballsy enough to do this

[Darkdrium777]

CD-Keys have never stopped pirates from playing games. Ever. At best all it does is prevent them from playing online if the master server has the ability to check the CD-Key against a database containing all CD-Keys issued by Sony.
But single player games? Never ever.
Plus if this is integrated on the gameOS side of things, what would prevent hackers from rewriting that particular part of the code to accept any generated CD-Key ever made? Nothing, that's what.

All in all a terrible idea that has little effect on the piracy side of things.

However, it is an excellent idea to kill the preowned market, something which publishers are very keen on seeing happening.

[infoxicated]

It's similar to the EA strategy of issuing a code for online play to the original owner, forcing someone who picks up a used copy to pay extra if they want to unlock the online component.

It'll only really stop piracy of the big hitters like CoD - that game just doesn't have any longevity outside of multiplayer, yet it sells millions every November.

I think it'd have the desired affect, actually Darkdrium777 - Pandora's box is open now, but this line of defence would help avoid the PSN side of things being too polluted by cracked PS3's running pirate software.

The amount of harm this does to the industry is insane - I'm really disappointed that the PS3 has finally fallen prey to those bastards. As if development studios weren't having a hard enough time staying solvent without the risk of their game being pirated.

[Aeroracer]

its good idea when they reduce the price of games down to the same as dvd or blu ray . 99pence to £20...

will cost sony cash and wont stop pirates just stop poor people from playing..

greedy scumbags

[Nutcase:259]

Cant sony brick or disable hacked ps3's? i heard somewhere on the grapevine that sony have the ability to do this with some sort of killswitch?

might say in here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html its so massive it probably covers there arse for anything and everything

Edit :actually section 2, 11 & 13 are quite interesting,

[infoxicated]

will cost sony cash and wont stop pirates just stop poor people from playing..

greedy scumbags
Get a clue, Jasmin - why should a poor person be buying a PS3 or games? They're luxury items - the same reason as they wouldn't be eating caviare or drinking £300 bottles of Champagne.

Just because they can't afford them, it doesn't make it right for them to steal it.

Far too many great game studios have gone under and and too many decent game developers have lost their jobs because their games don't make enough money to recoup the development costs.

Free Radical had a stream of great hits, only for one bad game - Haze - to send them under. Bizarre Creations got marked for closure last week by Activision because Blur didn't make enough money.

Piracy does not help this situation at all. If folk can't afford a £40 game, tough crap.

[XpanDrome2097]

I agree with Rob.
I could be an example: I don't have a ps3 for the reason that I don't have a great load of money, therefore I prefer to buy other kind of things.
Ok, am too poor to buy a ps3 console, but absolutely is not a problem for me, I prefer my ps2 (bought only in 2009, because its actual cost at the time was affordable for me - now costs a bit less - ) and every kind of games at a very low cost, and used games that are absolutely cheap!
I agree that this way is thinking results from my financial situation, but at the same time I've always protected the original music products, games and many other kinds of original supports.
The reason? I'm a musician, and I know the right value of the music (warning, don't confuse this with money): I produce my own music, and I pay the price of my productions, I spend a lot of time and money...just a week after its release...surprise!
Emule, torrent, many blogs where you can download the result of all my sweat (and, of course, paid) work completely free...
And let me say that the first time I've saw my band's productions on many Emule/torrent links and blogspot channels I've completely lost my patience: F**K...where's the copyright?
I admit that sometimes many people decide to buy the original copy after a listening of the mp3 files, but more frequently, not.
In my life, if I don't have stopped to believe in the value of original copies: they are the right choices that give a real supports for the industries and the developers/artist, not the "free" (the term is completely wrong) copies :|...and also I agree that an used-copy owner must pay a little price to play online, due to the smaller cost of the game: all we are the same, all we have the same rights.

About the thread: is this would be an useful solution, for me is a good idea.
For everyone here: don't forget that, as Rob says, many developers (an example? Studio Liverpool suggest you something :|?) have lost their jobs due to many money problems, and, of course, piracy.
In these last years piracy on the web has completely lost its own control: you can find (also: "steal") all that you want!
For me is good if someone can find an useful solution to obstruct this madness...

Sorry if sometimes I've been out of the thread's argument, but this make me sad and angry at the same time :D...

Kind regards.
XpanDrome2097

[KGB]

I can't see how they can implement that with regards to older games. How would it work? All the games that people have bought in good faith second hand would now not work online!? GAME and the like will be crapping themselves at this, not only would they be getting a tonne of games brought back, but how would they deal with the lost revenue from the second hand market. They must make most of their money from the trade in side of things. Not that I'm bothered as they rob you blind with some of their prices.

I've never modded or chipped any console I have had before so it seems unfair that we might be unable to choose if we want to buy a game new or second hand because of the egos of a few Uber Nerds.

[DreamyElf]

It seems that the only one who will suffer from this strategy if us, the faithful 'stupid' customers... :(
I hate the policy regarding digital purchases already, not to mention the absolutely unfair locking of DLC's to only one ID from the companies, so another pc-like system will only damage the paying customers and won't hurt the pirates...

[Darkdrium777]

Cant sony brick or disable hacked ps3's?That is illegal no matter what they (Sony) says about it. They cannot do it as consumer protection laws are in place to prevent that from happening.
Who cares what a ToS and EULA says if they are not respectful of the law?

Free Radical had a stream of great hits, only for one bad game - Haze - to send them under.Let's be honest here at least. Haze was far from good. It had an interesting mechanic but the rest of it was EH.
I respect their work on TimeSplitters but they fell low on Haze, and that was the only problem. Not piracy so it's not exactly relevant except for the part that it's a money problem that caused their closure, stemming from a game design problem.

Bizarre Creations got marked for closure last week by Activision because Blur didn't make enough money.That's because it's Activision, and it's an entirely different problem (Something related to CoD and billions of cash.)
I won't go through it but Activision has a history of closing studios just because it doesn't satisfy their bottom line enough.
It's a shame for Colin Berry and the others who joined him though. I sent him a PM when I heard the news on here.

I can't see how they can implement that with regards to older games. They can't. It would be for newer games only.

As for this method actually stopping piracy, well I'd agree with you Infoxicated that on the billion dollars maker CoD it would be a pretty huge deterrent on the PS3 side of things, the Xbox 360 not so much because you just have to wait till release day to play online and not get flagged as a pirate, and on the PC you can just hack around Steamworks.
But on other games with multiplayer, say Uncharted or Dead Space, etc... Not so much. Unless people buy these single player games specifically for the multiplayer... It won't do a thing because they are primarily single player and thus you can hack around this online activation without sacrificing much.

I would like it very much if people bought quality games myself, but unfortunately I can't agree with this DRM being the solution as there's already ample proof that it isn't. The real solution is to make a good game, price it well so it will sell well. It's hard, but which sector of production isn't?

[Aeroracer]

Get a clue, Jasmin - why should a poor person be buying a PS3 or games? They're luxury items - the same reason as they wouldn't be eating caviare or drinking £300 bottles of Champagne.

Just because they can't afford them, it doesn't make it right for them to steal it.


Piracy does not help this situation at all. If folk can't afford a £40 game, tough crap.

I am against piracy 100% and mod chipping and hacking etc ...as it is theft....I never said i condoned it either...

poor people as i say are young kids (probally the majority of game users) who cant always fork out £40 and rely on second hand games market to buy/sell a game.
..i wouldnt put games in the same categorie as caviare or champagne (£300)

second hand game market is a good thing for consumers too..

for example assassins creed 2 there was an issue where you could not replay the levels when the game was complete you had to sit through entire game to get to your favourite bit.there was outrage on ubisoft forum and a petition where 99% of all players signed to ask ubisoft to fix this..they did nothing and ignored the customer.... more bothered about making another game now they had our money..so basically everyone sold their copy back to the shop and they lost quite a bit of money as no one would buy a new copy as there were millions of used available..

the used market helps consumers to hit crap games companies where it hurts in the pockets.
crap games always end up in the second hand shelve thus preventing new sales for the company and tells them their game is rubbish and they listen..

this seiral code rubbish wont effect pirates only the consumer..

[Medusa]

I hate piracy, personally, no matter how people try to sell it to the masses, it's still stealing. At the same time, I am one of those people who will always try to purchase things pre-owned if I can. Price is a big factor, and I'm sorry, but I don't see how killing the used game market is going to save them any money. It reminds me of the music protection they started putting on CDs...that worked well, didn't it? People will screw the system any way they can, and things like this are just temporary patches stuck overtop a pathetic society where people do whatever they like and get away with it.
So, yeah, good job they're at least trying to put a slowdown on piracy, but it's not going to last and I for one am happy I won't be buying many more games anyway.
Plus 1 to xpandrome's post. Music and games - they are made with people's sweat, blood, tears, (and lives really, the amount of time it takes) and people who don't understand this feel free to steal and give away those things with nary a second thought.

[Aeroracer]

pefectly said :)

[Nutcase:259]

That is illegal no matter what they (Sony) says about it. They cannot do it as consumer protection laws are in place to prevent that from happening.

it isnt illegal, these things are so well written and put together that everything is tied up in small print. you've agreed to this legally binding contract, if you then go against it and they shut down your console as you've breached it and you attempt to sue. you woulden't have a leg to stand on. especially if your using it to play pirated games.

and they should have every right to stop hackers and pirates :+

*that said the US works differently to the EU so there might be differences in how binding it is.

[Darkdrium777]

You cannot sign away your rights. Screw Sony. :)

Why do you think they are having so much trouble suing Geohot & co. But it's against the TOS and the EULA to hack the PS3!!!

A: The law doesn't care. You buy the device, you own it, you do not lease it. Sony has no say in what you do with it period.


Price is a big factor, and I'm sorry, but I don't see how killing the used game market is going to save them any money.Publishers see the money from used games sales as money they could have made selling a new copy.
The thing is they think they can charge 60$ a piece to a consumer who would have bought a used copy for like 30$ but can't because of all the limitations (Project 10 dollars etc.) and call it fair for the consumer.

[infoxicated]

In the very early 90's I paid around £30 for Atari Lynx games made by a team of maybe five people tops. Twenty years later, £40 seems a very reasonable price for a game that's taken 24 months and sometimes upwards of 50 people to make.

The only people who make money from the trade-in market is the shop itself, it's not like the publisher or the developer sees any of that, so it's hardly surprising that they want to find ways of protecting their original investment in creating it.

So what the people who have hacked the PS3 and released the crack to run pirated software have done is strike at the very livelihood of the games industry. I've seen it first hand with WipEout Pulse - the piracy on the PSP killed the sales of that game stone dead. One of the most comprehensive and complete sequels to a million selling game and it turned over just 12,000 copies during it's launch window, ensuring support for the game was short-lived.

Who lost out there? Those of us who paid full price and wanted to get the most out of the software. The winners were those playing on hacked consoles with a ROM of the game, cheating like **** in online games and ruining the experience for everyone else. And after they did that they moved on to the next piece of pirated software they'd torrented and went off to repeat it all again.

It's that reason why Sony must protect the integrity of the PlayStation Network from those who are running pirated software on hacked consoles. I'm very happy if they go after these people aggressively - I don't want people getting games for free and shafting the very developers who helped create them. The EULA determining the use of the PSN will be water tight when it comes to the use of hacked consoles - you can screw around with your hardware all you like, but don't expect to use it on the PSN.

[Aeroracer]

I hate these pirate hackers..i see them all over the web they brag about what they do ..they even compete with each other to see who can hack the quickest or supply the best copy to the users..

i dont understand why they get so high on distributing someones hard work for free knowing they will take the designers livelyhood away..nots as if they get paid for being a pirate..

i would love to go around to the pirates house get all their possession and sell them and give the money to charity.then a year later go back and do it again and again..

wheres admiral norighton when you need him..he would hang the lot of em..:p

[Darkdrium777]

you can screw around with your hardware all you like, but don't expect to use it on the PSN.I agree with this too. And frankly, I'm quite sure a lot of people who currently run CFW are smart enough to not sign on to the PSN based on the chance that they might reveal themselves if they do.

However adding CD Keys is not the way to keep people running CFW out of the PSN. The way to do that is to have some form of detection that they are running CFW and preventing them from ever connecting. That detection method would be server side and totally unalterable by hacks.

CD-Keys and stuff like that just pisses off customers. :| But no, in fact I'm fine with CD-Keys. It's the limited activations things that I hate (Aka it's Sony's SecuROM, but not only on PSN games now.) Plus if your PS3 dies like mine did, there's no way but to call them to deactivate, and they said they can only do it once. No really, once again, I own the games I buy, I do not lease a service for a one time payment of 60$ to play the game. That's bullshit.

[rdmx]

What's to stop them spoofing their firmware version?

[Darkdrium777]

More complex methods of detection for Custom Firmware can be written than a check for the firmware version number.
I'm sure there's some kind of check-sum they could use to check the whole firmware data and run it server side. So if there's even one byte of difference, the check-sum would not match with the correct one and the console would be barred from accessing the PSN.
Kind of like MD5 hash check, but server side run only on attempt of connecting to the PSN (after it's been a while since you haven't connected) so there would be no interference possible I do think. SHA-2 if needed.
It would probably take a while to calculate the whole thing... But IMO that taking a while is much better than having your games locked in activations number.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

2.You must not take any action, or upload, post, stream, share or otherwise transmit any content, language, images or sounds, in any forum, communication, public profile, Online ID, clan name or otherwise via, or in connection with, Sony Online Services which is defamatory, which compromises the privacy or security of yourself or others, or which we in our sole discretion find abusive, offensive or vulgar. This includes any action, content, language, image or sound that is racially, ethnically, sexually or religiously demeaning or offensive; defamatory, threatening or discriminatory; sexually explicit; illegal; or uses or promotes hate speech, violent behaviour or illegal substances.
I find the hate speech part quite contradictory...they are indirectly hating the companies by doing illegal things. And I bet hate speech towards the hackers will be met with retaliation by "Anonymous" from the 4chan boards.

3.You must not cheat or engage in deceptive, fraudulent or misleading practices.Cheating in tests is less severe(or is it?),but both hurt dignity,unless that person thinks he is doing a "greater good" and thinks he is helping. I wonder why the hackers cannot try making games since they know how to programme. Wait...is one reason homebrew? I wonder what woud happen if one day the roles of Hackers and Developers were swapped.
Serial codes...I'm sure most here have heard of key generators. Even if that fails,they will still find a way to beat the system.
@DD77:I bet that trying to check for altered code when booting is defeated. Or maybe there should be annoying popups like in InGenuine Windows. Wait,that will also be defeated.
Ban of PS3 is done by IP address or MAC address? Maybe some would swap out the Internet card.

[MegaGeeza22]

I think its a good idea to use a code with a new game but buying 2nd hand games and then paying for a online pass is stupid...
If game developers can block 2nd hand users playing the full game just think what other companys will do! Buy a 2nd hand book but you have to pay an extra fee for the last 3 pages... dvds with no sound just the video... haha! i could go on.

[infoxicated]

The book analogy is rubbish, because there are no ongoing costs on the publisher after a book is printed and distributed. That's a straw-man argument and just isn't comparing like for like.

Say a game sells a million copies and the publisher uses the revenue to cover the cost of development and the upkeep of the servers for the online portion of the game.

The original owner has paid for all of that and deserves a quality service. They'll maybe play the game for a year - usually two years tops, before the Next Big Thing (tm) or the sequel comes out and they play that instead.

Further down the line another player hands over a fraction of the original cost to buy the title from the trade-in shelf of HMV or GAME. Are they entitled to take that game home and enjoy the same experience as the original owner did, despite contributing nothing to the cost of the game nor the upkeep of its servers?

I just don't think so, and if charging second hand owners to enable online functionality keeps that game's servers online for a little while longer then I think that's fairly reasonable. It will maybe perpetuate the life of a game for the benefit of the hardcore fans who are still at it, too.

With DC Universe, for example, going for a WoW style subscription model I think we'll see more console games doing that. I actually think MAG would have been better using a subscription model, as I'd have happily paid £2.99 a month to play it for the ten months or so that I did - it would have been a far better way to pay for a game with no offline content than charging £39.99 for it.

In the summer of 2009 people were up in arms over adverts appearing in WipEout. I don't remember anyone wondering if Studio Liverpool might have been trying to increase revenue streams to keep the studio in the black. Six months later in January 2010 people were up in arms over sweeping redundancies at Studio Liverpool as many of the WipEout team lost their jobs in cost cutting measures. It was all "**** you Sony for putting adverts in the game" and "**** you Sony for making people redundant."

Not everybody in the games industry is driving to work in a diamond encrusted Veyron. Not every game makes CoD or GTA money - most are just fortunate enough to break even.

[Darkdrium777]

@DD77:I bet that trying to check for altered code when booting is defeated. Or maybe there should be annoying popups like in InGenuine Windows. Wait,that will also be defeated.
Ban of PS3 is done by IP address or MAC address? Maybe some would swap out the Internet card.Not a check when booting. The check cannot be run on the PS3 as it is completely compromised and highly likely that it will stay that way. However, a check run on the PSN server you are connecting to is not and could not be circumvented if it's implemented well enough. If the console has CFW, the checksum of the FW data would not match with the official Sony one recorded on the server, thus you are booted off. If hackers try and prevent the machine from sending any FW data over the connection, you are also booted off because the check cannot be run without FW data.
As for the bans, Sony can use the serial numbers (They have that information associated with PSN accounts, I know because I called them about that.) Swap out the motherboard? Not so simple.


In the summer of 2009 people were up in arms over adverts appearing in WipEoutI think they could have been done in much better taste IMO. The game is filled with billboards after all. And we know that these billboards can show dynamic content. Load up Vineta-K in any campaign events and you'll see logos of the campaign event on some of the boards. But load it up in Racebox and you don't.
Simply changing the redirect to whatever company wanted to advertise would have worked miles better than the obnoxiousness they implemented without notifying anyone that this was in fact a change coming with the patch.
IMO that last part is what's the worst about that whole situation: they didn't tell anyone.