Girl (or boy) Problems Thread

[Jav]

Hi guys.

I thought we could do with a thread like this, it's on some other forums I'm registered on as well and it works pretty well there. :D I need to get something off my chest. Of course some advice from fellow men doesn't hurt. :beer And I do have a girl problem.

The girl I'm on about broke up with her BF bout a week ago (the guy who she sort of dumped me for in the first place) and she's started talking to me again now, but in a very obvious friend-like way. Right now it's pretty obvious I'm stuck in the friend zone. I like her, still, but I understand and respect her if she doesn't feel the same way about me. I can't think of much about me that has changed between back then and now, but hey you don't know what's going on in another's mind.

The more I get on with her the more I like her, but I don't want to lose her as a friend either. So right now I'm really not sure whether I should avoid her (because that sure as hell would make things a lot easier for me because I wouldn't have to confront myself with my feelings for her) or grow closer to her again, in hopes of things going back to what they once were.

Thoughts?

[SaturnReturn]

Last time I was in this position I just told the girl I liked her. She had a boyfriend and I thought she might not be with him too much longer, but while waiting it was occupying my mind too much and so I decided it was just going to be a friend thing. I think the idea of telling someone becomes a lot bigger than the feelings themselves sometimes, especially if you feel bad or conflicted about carrying the secret around. Once it's out there you might realise that actually, the friend thing is fine for you both. Or you could be surprised and find out the opposite. You never know. But make sure you time it well and are just genuine and don't expect anything in return, or she might take it as you trying it on rather than just being honest.

Also, I think it should be a 'Boy Problems' thread too. I'll change the title. I doubt there's be any boy problems because we're all so awesome, but you never know.;)

[Kyonshi]

One thing i learned through personal experience and countless personal friends testimonies is that pure friendship only between a girl and a man is impossible. I know loooots of people will disagree with me, but i don't care. Sooner or later, it goes to another level for either the guy or the girl, and 2 things happen: either the 2 individuals get together in a fine way or the relation gets totally screwed up, most probably forever. Most of the time, the second option happens.

So now, as for you, 2 things are going through this girl's mind. One, she plays the "game" of wanting to be friend with you, so she can survey your love life somehow, see if you're interested in someone else or not, to eventually get back with you if you're still single. Two, she now considers you a "friend only" type of guy and you are eternally stuck in this dead-end, unless you get away from her and see someone else. My best advice is that you should never get in this "friendly" relationship with a girl while you're interested for more and while she's not going there actually. You'll get yourself ****ed, and not the good kind of ****ed.

Better straighten things out right away with her. Does she wants to get back with you or not? Period. Also, considering she dumped you for another, i don't think she's very reliable and that she deserves your trust. She did it once (or maybe more?), she'll probably do it again.

I think its the best for your self-esteem to see someone new and deserving your trust. Someone with no shady or screwed up history and you'll do fine. :)

[jesse9705]

I like this girl she dosent like me as she hasnt seen the kind side of me and now i feel scared to ask her out as last time i got rejected and i lost major self esteem and cofidence how can i get her to see the good side of me if she isnt even a friend

[Jav]

I hear you Saturn, thanks for the advice. I'm not expecting anything, I'm too rational for that. I think she knows I like her, I kind of let it shine through the last time I spoke to her. I've decided on just sharing my thoughts with her the next time she comes round, just like you said. It's just that something inside me tells me I can be with her again because it has happened before... :brickwall

If anything I'm gonna be completely open with her, if only to just clear my mind. Thanks guys.

@Kyonshi: I can guarantee it is not the 1st option. She does feel sorry for what she did to me (it was behind my back too) and she wouldn't play any games with me any more. I know her well enough to tell you that. I do think no. 2 is the truth, but I'll confront her with it just to be sure.

[Kyonshi]

You've mistaken me with Kanar? :P

[SaturnReturn]

I don't think it's impossible for people of the opposite sex to just be friends. It just depends on the circumstances. If one of them starts off liking the other then it's always going to be difficult, especially if they only started talking to the person hoping for something romantic in the first place. But I have a good few female friends who I have a more sibling-type relationship with, who I'm not attracted to in that way and who I don't think for a second would see me any differently either. If we could only be friends with people of the same sex then that would totally suck.

[Jav]

Wooops, sorry Kyonshi! ^^

True Saturn. Being completely honest with myself, I think nothing's going to get me out of that friend zone. Hate to say it but, there you go.

[Kyonshi]

People like to live it that way, fine by me. To me, two single person or opposite gender trying to be friends only is the same thing that to live into an illusionary world. Sure it can lasts some time, but not forever. The only way i found out that its ok to be friend with a girl is that she's either already in a relationship or she's 100% lesbian. Its the same for the girls; the typical gay male friend is the most representative of this.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I know exactly how you guys feel as I've been in the exact same position myself (come to think about it, I still kind of am now.)

The best thing you can do is to tell the person in question exactly how you feel about them. You'll feel so good about yourself afterwards, and you will come across as confident and mature to the other person. That's what I did and it felt like a massive weight had been lifted from my shoulders afterwards.

I'm a bit of a tricky position myself girl-wise. I had formed a really close friendship with a girl and realised that I had feelings for her. I told her exactly how I felt, but the feelings were unreciprocated. So, I tried my best to get over her, and I did. Then a few months later, she drops the bombshell on me that she actually DOES have feelings for me too. By that time I had gotten over her and now she brings all of this back up. :brickwall

At the time, I told her that it would be best for us to remain friends because I cherished her friendship so much and wouldn't want to lose her. I felt gutted inside, but she was going through a family issue at the time and I didn't want to come across as taking advantage of her.

So, we remained close friends and time moved on. I still had massive feelings for her, so after she had sorted out the issue that she had to deal with, I told her again that I still loved her. Because I've left it for a while, I have no idea if she still feels the same about me anymore.

Love is co complicated isn't it?

[KGB]

Hmm? Ice T or Jay Z, which is better?

I'll go with Jay Z (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpxr3smvGcw&feature=related) with a bit of The Beatles thrown in, as I'm not in a misogynistic mood.

Wait to you get married and have kids - it gets even worse ;).

[Challenger #001]

Ah, what is this thing you call 'love' and 'affection'? ;)

Personally Jav, I'm in two minds. One is that if you broke up with her before, something obviously didn't go right in your relationship, and it's not worth trying again if you're going to get the same result. But then again, I'm with Kyonshi that it is not possible for a straight male and a straight female to be 'just friends' either way. So perhaps you should sit down with her over a coffee and see where she stands.

If you want my brutal opinion, don't bother. Any sort of relationship is going to cost you loads, and with the current economic climate I think a relationship is just too much work and too much cost for not much in return.

No offence meant to anyone out there who is married etc etc, but I think boyfriends and girlfriends, not to mention family and kids, are not worth it. Keep it in your head and don't disappoint yourself.

[Nutcase:259]

If you want my brutal opinion, don't bother. Any sort of relationship is going to cost you loads, and with the current economic climate I think a relationship is just too much work and too much cost for not much in return.

.


Whoa? :eek thats gonna be like the funniest/weirdest break up speech ever "err you know, what with the recessional an all... bye!"

Hey challenger. im sure you'll find someone that will change your opinion. just wait. or go out and find it.


i also dissagree with kyonshi about the not being just friends with girls. ive got female friends that i wouldnt dream about being with, there alright as friends but i dunno id find it a bit... wierd sort of crossing that line you know?

[KGB]

If you want my brutal opinion, don't bother. Any sort of relationship is going to cost you loads, and with the current economic climate I think a relationship is just too much work and too much cost for not much in return.

You old romantic Challenger, the banks have a lot to answer for!

What about cheap sexual gratification, it's always worth a shout :).

[Jav]

Ah, what is this thing you call 'love' and 'affection'? ;)

Personally Jav, I'm in two minds. One is that if you broke up with her before, something obviously didn't go right in your relationship, and it's not worth trying again if you're going to get the same result. But then again, I'm with Kyonshi that it is not possible for a straight male and a straight female to be 'just friends' either way. So perhaps you should sit down with her over a coffee and see where she stands.

If you want my brutal opinion, don't bother. Any sort of relationship is going to cost you loads, and with the current economic climate I think a relationship is just too much work and too much cost for not much in return.

No offence meant to anyone out there who is married etc etc, but I think boyfriends and girlfriends, not to mention family and kids, are not worth it. Keep it in your head and don't disappoint yourself.
We weren't in a relationship before, but we were seeing each other and we were definitely more than friends. It's not that anything went wrong so to speak, I would say we were closer than ever when she decided to drop me for the other guy. I still don't quite understand why she did it tbh, and from the way she spoke of him he was an absolute horror of a boyfriend.

Seriously though I don't think she's gonna change her mind as to what she thinks of me / how she looks at me now, I'm not gonna be able to turn this around.

And I mean, I guess I could live with that eventually, but the thing is that I do want to keep her as a friend. It's just that I'd make it harder for myself as I will maintain the feelings for her if I keep hanging out with her. And the best way of getting over someone is avoiding the person completely.

Nasty situation :(

[Kyonshi]

Dark Phantom just proved my point once again! :)

He legitimately had feelings about the girl and in all honesty, he told her so. That's the good thing to do i my most humble opinion. But the part i find funny is that the girl refused to let her feelings free by replying it wasn't reciprocal, while they were there... yeah right. That's something being a total and eternal mystery why girls don't admit the evidence.

And what is it about fearing to lose the "friendship side" when you enter a love relationship?!? That's another issue that amazes me from people... For cryin' out loud, it will be consolidated!!! Friendship is a form of love, it follows it. It the best foundation for a love relationship. I try my best to have this friendship dimension with my girlfriend, its one of the most greatest thing to have in love. Most of the relational therapists tell us to nurture a friendship relation with our significant others, that it maintain the health of a love relationship, that it breaks the routine a relation can get into. So please people, stop being freightened of something so great! :D

[mdhay]

He legitimately had feelings about the girl and in all honesty, he told her so. That's the good thing to do i my most humble opinion.

Yeah, that's actually a big mistake, in my experience. In fact, all I have is bad experiences.

[Kyonshi]

No, Mdhay. The mistake doesn't come from you. There's no mistake unless the girl to who you revealed this treated you like ****. Now that would have been a biiig mistake.

I always told girls i had feelings for them, whatever their consequent reactions were. Don't feel wrong about having feelings, about being sensitive or think your moves are failure. I often thought like you, i thought that i made something wrong. But i was never wrong. The girl didnt had the same feelings for me? Fine, what can i do about it. Its always a flip of a coin. BUT, if the girl treated my like crap afterwards or ignored me (which happened couple of times), then that b**** just could go to hell as far as im concerned. I never required for them to jump in my arms but at least that was never a reason to act like a jerk toward me.

Only once a girl reacted in great way to what i told her. She then said that she was already engaged and that unfortunately, she couldn't be with me at the moment. She was deeply honored and pleased with my words, and this made up for all the others that treated me badly. :)

[Dark_Phantom_89]

Yeah, that's actually a big mistake, in my experience. In fact, all I have is bad experiences.

I didn't think that it was a mistake and I don't regret a word I said to her. Better to live your life having gone for it rather than live in silence. Maybe one day we'll be together but I'm not holding out for that.

[mdhay]

It would seem that you guys have it better than I do. I'm not suprised actually; I never do things right, and am startign to not care about it anymore. They don't need me, so I don't need them. Don't need nobody in that case, you know?

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I wouldn't say that I'm better off than you mdhay. I'm hardly a casanova when it comes to the ladies and I've had my fair share of disasters when it comes to love.

[mdhay]

Yeah, although you don't have to deal with teenagers. I do, man. It's bullshit. Still, I'm alive, for that I'm sort of grateful. :D

[IndoorSnowStorm]

Here's just some general advice from the one relationship I had. I'm only 14, so love is not that important in my life right now, but it is slowly creeping up the importance list.

In order to prove my point in what I'm about to say, here's my backstory. There was this girl I liked in the last semester of the previous year in school, and we became good friends. I started to develop feelings for her, and I told her over the summer. She said she liked me, too. So come this school year I asked her out, and she said yes. The relationship lasted literally 3 days, before she "realized" that she didn't like me anymore. So we broke up, and we've never talked since.

So to get to the point,
1. Be friends with the girl that you like, but do NOT get close with her unless you know for sure that she has feelings for you.
2. Don't have a relationship with a close friend. Once you break up, you can never really be true friends again.

Once again, this is all based on the only relationship that I had, so I'm not a love expert or anything. :g

[Kyonshi]

@IndoorSnowStorm

I'm 33, and while you're trying to be as cautious as possible, i can see the picture you try to illustrate and where its leading you.:)

Being friend with a girl you like while hiding your feelings can be a freaking hard path to follow. You will find yourself constantly surveying and hoping when would be THE right moment to make your move, and this can be really exhausting. Take in consideration that girls NEVER make a move in broad daylight, its always something very subtle and you almost always have to guess, which can be very annoying, i know. You could be waiting longer than you thought.

You have to think about the fact that while you're waiting for the right moment, she may get interested into someone else, and since you would never reveaedl your feelings for her, you'll lose any opportunities sooner than you think. This will result in useless remorse, regrets, all that crap. You could also end finally telling her everything, and have the answer "Well its kinda too late...". A total mess, yep.

Another thing: sooner or later, the more often you'll see her, you'll find your feelings growing in intensity and this will become unbearable to not let them free for her without having her "signal", like you mention. You will surely have enough of this and will reveal everything right away without waiting anymore. This will lack proper timing and ponderation, and in the rush of the moment, you lose control and screw everything up beyond recovery.

Best advice is letting things flow. Don't push it. There's always a right moment to be with someone, and that involves being comfortable with yourself before anything else. And also, never NEVER EVER try to much on someone you do not know if there's a chance of sharing the same type of feelings. Nothing is deadlier than having a one-way relationship with the unknown.

[IndoorSnowStorm]

@Kyonshi
Well, I guess the only thing I can do right now is to talk to her about why she broke up with me. I'm a bit nervous because a lot of people say talking to an ex is kind of awkward. Then again, 3 days wasn't enough to say I had a girlfriend in the first place.

Enough about my problems, though.

[Kyonshi]

Its risky yeah. Could hurt yourself more, and there's a probability that the reason she'll give you will be complete bull**** and/or make no sense. Considering it lasted 3 days, don't expect something that will clear out all life's mysteries. :)

[Dark_Phantom_89]

You have to think about the fact that while you're waiting for the right moment, she may get interested into someone else, and since you would never reveaedl your feelings for her, you'll lose any opportunities sooner than you think. This will result in useless remorse, regrets, all that crap. You could also end finally telling her everything, and have the answer "Well its kinda too late...". A total mess, yep.

This is exactly what happened to me and now I regret it big time. She told me that she wants to be with someone who understands her and the current boyfriend doesn't. She wants somebody who can make her laugh, which I can do all of the time.

I think I'm reading into things too much to be honest. She obviously isn't talking about me, so maybe I should keep trying my best to get over her...

[Kyonshi]

Sorry to hear that, DP. But ya know, girls have this tendency to get themselves with dumbasses who are not giving them want they want and yet, they wanna be friends only with the guys who are perfect for them, because they have this stupid thought of "fear of losing it"... Instead of grabbing the opportunity when its time, they would most probably have regrets too ;)

[Challenger #001]

Yeah, I'm the casanova alright. ;3

To be honest, I'm surprised nobody's quoted Blackadder at Jav given that this is a thread for pilots.


'You have to treat your crate like you treat your woman!'
'What, take her home to meet your mother?'
'No! I mean get in her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!'

[miizu3]

Sorry to hear that, DP. But ya know, girls have this tendency to get themselves with dumbasses who are not giving them want they want and yet, they wanna be friends only with the guys who are perfect for them, because they have this stupid thought of "fear of losing it"... Instead of grabbing the opportunity when its time, they would most probably have regrets too ;)

Everything Kyonshi is saying here is so true. Yes, girls definitely have regrets too. I have many. And the fear of losing a great male friend is really understandable. It happened to me. I had this awesome friend who really, at first, didn't seem a boyfriend material for me. I did use the words that I don't wanna risk the great friendship but then at some point I gave in and we had the best six years together. Then we broke up and tried to remain friends but it just didn't work out. It's already seven years since separation but I still miss my friend greatly.

[MetaKraken]

IDK what to say (unless I told you guys already)...

Last Valentine's Day, there was a girl who admitted her feelings to me and I returned it back and I was in a relationship for the first time. But then, 3 months later, she became immature and started to tell me in a berating manner and broke up with me. It was so devastating, my heart was severed in two :(.

All I can do now is just find another way for myself (useful tips are welcome)....

[Kyonshi]

@Metakraken

Seeing your age, i assume you date girls pretty much the same age as you. What i can tell you is that girls at these ages are pretty much undecided and yes, like you said, immature. Also, before anyone of feminine gender flame me to death, guys can be such as well. It's just that here, a guy is involved and asks for advices.

So, like i was saying, she's very incoherent in her behavior, due to her age and lack of experience in relationship. Take also in consideration that in our times, the liberalization of morals took huge proportions, and are affecting relationships of all kinds. Everybody sees the others like a big buffet, because we think that we are free of choosing and that we don't have limits in the consumption of people around us when come love relationships. We're also at a time when people don't give a flying **** about the consequences of their acts. And that's exactly what i can detect in this girl, with the most cautious and most thoughtful thinking.

Since its boys who run after girls, and it has always been like that, they feel they have the balance of power and can dump any guy they want and pass to the next call. You can conclude this too, since she didn't have an ounce of respect toward you. Its also a big dose of unconcern from her.

I understand that you're crushed like a bug. I have experienced this crap soooo many times, you'd feel lucky to live what you endure now. The most important thing is to reconstruct yourself, build up a strong self-confidence and esteem. Next time, try to take as much as time as it takes to judge if the lady you're interested into is serious and has empathy. With enough time, you'll simply detect this. Its possible. We can't never be completely sure, people are full of surprise and we must never take anything for granted. BUT, there's things that don't lie and you must train yourself to detect them.

Sorry if its a long read, but i hope somehow you found some answers.:)

[MetaKraken]

Thanks for your great tips, Kyonshi. It really means a lot to me. I know there are most girls who are at my age, but I'm concerned that they may already be taken, so... yeah, I think it's good for me to wait for the right moment...

Again, thanks for the kind advice, Kyonshi :).

[IndoorSnowStorm]

I think there should just be an Ask Kyonshi Thread, because he is the answerer of all love questions. :g

[MENGKESHI]

Dude, in my experience, there's only one thing to do in these kind of situations: go out, get drunk together and try and try and get it on! You need to show ASAP you want to be more than just friends, otherwise you will always just be "the close friend" and it becomes harder every day to make the transition to boyfriend. So then you can either go for the drunken smooch, or the awkward, sober deep talk where you nervously express your feelings. And if you choose the latter, you risk making her feel awkward and uncomfortable. Plus if she's drunk, your chances are higher. Go for the full smooch, if she's not interested she won't let you do it, and then you can relax knowing you tried your best! :D There is a reason all the braindead asstwats get girls and the shy sensitive guys don't - it's because you've gotta move fast!! Also if you're too much of a nice guy it can put them off; in my experience, girls like "bad" guys, at least until you're going out with them, then you have plenty of chance to treat them like a gentleman to avoid their bad tempers... lol Good luck!!! :D

[MetaKraken]

^^Lol thanks for the tip, but unfourtunately, I can't drink (non-soft drink beverages) because I'm underage and it can irritate my stomach badly :blarg.

[MENGKESHI]

Lol ok, I was actually posting to OP, but don't worry, you can still pull the same **** in the cinema ;) Although I recommend putting your arm around her in the first 10 mins of the movie, otherwise you spend the whole film crapping yourself about when to make the move lol

I agree with Kyonshi though, if that girl messed you around probably best to forget about her and find someone else... Plenty more fish in the sea, good luck!! :D

[MetaKraken]

Thank you :).

[mdhay]

This one of the best threads I have ever read, I needed help (still do), and it's made my lack of a love life much less of a burden. Invisible Hats off, guys. :clap

[omega329]

It's threads like this that make me glad I don't really care about my own teenage relationships.

[IndoorSnowStorm]

Time to revive this thread! So, anywayyy, there is this girl who I basically know pretty much nothing about, but I think she's really cute. We have no classes in school together, but she is in my confirmation class after school (I'm catholic). On our retreat to another church (which was 8 hours long) we sat together all day, and she was cold, so she asked me if she could wear my hoodie, so without a doubt I said yes. We talked the whole time, she kept smiling at me, and she hung around with me. I even drew her a picture, which she said she liked. So here I am, wanting to ask her out. Based on my situation, would I be too much of a stranger to her for her to say yes?

[Kyonshi]

Since how long do you know her? More precisely, since how long she's seeing you and being aware you exist? Weird question i know, but that could be very revealing for how long you're on her mind. ;)

I know you said you barely saw her couple of times. But you should know girls count in days - all guys who have a girlfriend will tell you they count everytime its been a month together or always remember the b-days of everyone living on this earth :lol.

But even there, i think you should not ask her out (as wanting to be her lover and vice-versa) right away. Just don't do that... yet. With the most honest judgement i can pass on this situation, keep the feeling going on. THAT'S what's important to her. If you can say, with the most thoughtful look upon this, that she enjoyed the hours spent with you, the feeling is good. Just see her casually, to do anything that presents itself, the type of activity isnt really important. Just arrange things to see her, without being too obvious. In the same way, you'll learn to know each other, and add some substance to the moments you spend together. You'll know if, underneath all appearances, she's still enjoying this feeling, without saying any words. The look in the eyes is something more revealing than words, believe me.

I'm saying all this with the best intention and good will, but its also to put you on guard, and avoid any further painful situation. Maybe, on the other hand, she's just searching to enjoy this feeling and nothing else. Maybe she's afraid of getting serious, maybe she just enjoy passion and cut everything else after the rush is gone. Who knows? But i still think this is looking good, there's no reason to freak out here (not saying you are!). Remember, try to let the feeling do its work. Never ever rush a girl in any kind of way. You'll know when the right moment will present itself, you'll feel when you'll have to make a move. Think about the process to lead yourself to great results instead of having fantasies about the result in the first place. This will help you keeping the focus on. ;)
I know it can be kinda hard to ponderate and hold on. We guys can be very impulsive when a girl is on our minds. Just follow her rhythm if you wanna have some. :D:+

[IndoorSnowStorm]

Thanks Kyonshi, that really helped. :+ She's known that I exist for about 2 weeks. I know, a bit pathetic, right? :paperbag

But when you say "arrange things to see her", what kind of things do you have in mind?

[Kyonshi]

There's nothing pathetic in what you're saying dude, come on!:D Everything needs a start, no?

I just said "arrange things to see her" because i have no idea of what's going on in your immediate social life, at school, in town, hehe. For example, if there's a day out organized somewhere by your school officials (theme park, baseball/football stadium to see a match from your local team), you arrange yourself to be there if she's going too. You can ask her "Hey do you if there's still spots left for the trip to Chicago to attend the Bears game next week?" and she'll answer you. Or even simplier: "Hey did you see this movie? i'm not sure about it, you got some advice?".

Try to make occasions to see her and be by her side. Not all the time, but occasionnally.

[mdhay]

... Never ever rush a girl in any kind of way. You'll know when the right moment will present itself, you'll feel when you'll have to make a move. Think about the process to lead yourself to great results instead of having fantasies about the result in the first place. This will help you keeping the focus on. ;)
I know it can be kinda hard to ponderate and hold on. We guys can be very impulsive when a girl is on our minds. Just follow her rhythm if you wanna have some. :D:+

Why didn't you post this earlier? I really could've used this last week.... I fail. lol.

[miizu3]

I think there should just be an Ask Kyonshi Thread, because he is the answerer of all love questions. :g

True, he's got many good advices! Go lovedoctor Kyonshi :P

[IndoorSnowStorm]

@Kyonshi
Sadly, there's nothing going on at school at the present moment or in the foreseeable future. :(

[Kyonshi]

@People calling me LoveDoc (funny thing is that my initials are "DR") :lol

Well i had my load of **** and failures to be able to take a step back and think about how this whole world works regarding love affairs.:P I had some success also, and i will gladly help people doing good choices or avoid mistakes. This said, isn't it how life works? Trials and errors? But yeah, when it specifically comes to love relations, the whole thing can get really bitchy and frustrating, may come along the regrets.

First, a lot of people cannot make the difference between love and desire. The root of a lot of our failures in love relations comes from this mistake. I myself couldn't and wouldn't see this huge difference. Sure, the two can get along in a good and stable relation. But the problem is surfacing when someone is interested in someone before getting engaged. Ask yourselves the true question; do i desire this person or am i prone to say "i love you" without actually thinking it? As you grow old (pity me xD), you'll inevitably face this question one fine day. As you are young, you don't really care about this question most of the time, and you fuel yourself off the rush of passion. That will lead mostly to short-term relationships. As you are young, you wanna do everything imaginable to take profit of your younger days before getting too old, and its legitimate, its good! But this way of seeing things can invade a bit the love relationship, rushing everything and avoid getting serious with someone. To live this the best way possible, it takes a lot reflection and discernment. :)

@IndoorSnowStorm

Well then, try to find something else!:) Maybe you have common friends? Try to organize something with those friends so you encounter the lady again! That's a good way, btw. I think the best way is to meet the person you like is along with other good friends. Conversations can start easily, everyone is involved and its easier to interact with the one on your mind, removing the risk of staring at each other, speechless and totally looking dumb.:P It doesn't need to be complicated, just a night out at the restaurant and then at the night club after, let's say.

@Mdhay

Nah man, you don't fail, don't say that. You just try your luck, and that's the way to go. This said, you must be ready to face whatever the result is. And it cannot always be bad! ;)

[IndoorSnowStorm]

Maybe you have common friends? It doesn't need to be complicated, just a night out at the restaurant and then at the night club after, let's say.
Here's a couple problems with these.

1. Her and I have no common friends at all, plus I barely know who her friends are.
2. I'm 14, so the restaurant nightclub thing won't work.

My god, how can this get any more complicated? Added to the fact that I'm somewhat shy and can't start or hold a conversation with women makes this even harder.

Also, how would I approach her? I only had 1 girlfriend so far, and we were friends for a long time, so approaching her wasn't hard at all.

[mdhay]

Not always no, but it is most of the time.

[Kyonshi]

Here's a couple problems with these.

1. Her and I have no common friends at all, plus I barely know who her friends are.
2. I'm 14, so the restaurant nightclub thing won't work.

My god, how can this get any more complicated? Added to the fact that I'm somewhat shy and can't start or hold a conversation with women makes this even harder.

Also, how would I approach her? I only had 1 girlfriend so far, and we were friends for a long time, so approaching her wasn't hard at all.

Oh im sorry dude, i should have check your age... Well then at 14, you don't have a social life as developed as someone who attained majority, if i can say so. There's only school where you can have some link between each other, or maybe summer camp but i don't think you're really into that?...

Well in this situation, i can only tell you this: dive or wait patiently!!! The only way you can spend time with her is to go see her. We're at this point!:)
Run to her! Go see her in an appropriate moment, when she's alone. Never, never, never ****ing ever go see her when she's with her female friends. You'll wish you were never born.:lol Now i know you're shy, but if you do exactly like i tell you, it will diminish. KEEP. IT. SIMPLE. Don't make up complicated plans in your head, don't project yourself in any kind of situation, this will only mess you up even more. Keep in mind that all you want to tell her is that you had a good time last time you spend time together, and that you'd like to see her again. Stay true to what you feel, BE YOURSELF. Lets do a little screenplay here!:)

Let's say during the 8 hours you spent with her, she mentioned she liked horror movies (chicks dig that a lot). You had conversation about that for several minutes. Now let's say you see an horror movie going out in the theaters. You could then walk up to her and say:

-Hey (her name)! How are you doing?
-Fine! and you?
-Im alright! Hey i'd like to ask you something; you remember you told me about horror movies last time, and how its awesome and we like that?
-Yeah! i remember we talked a lot about that! Why?
-Well there's this movie going out right now. Seems to be cool, and it made me remember the nice chat we had about this and that you like this kinda horror movie. Seems to be different than the rest, and then i thought: maybe we could go see what's its all about exactly? How about that? That would be nice to see it with someone who's open-minded to discover something new! You can't deny you aint the target audience, dont you?:D

You see what happens here? You're putting her in a box; she wouldnt be able to say "No you're wrong i dont like that". She will say yes, and the door is opened. Thats what i meant when i said "create a situation". Plus, you will be appearing very confident and calm with yourself, this would put her in confidence tppé In the end, maybe she would probably answer she doesnt have free time or that this movie doesnt really attract her. If that would happen, don't force things. Just say "Well ok then! If you ever change your mind, tell me!" and then you leave her gently. Dont go "Huh... hmmm... well... huh ok". She would have said no, and thats it. You won't be sad about it because you were yourself and didnt pulled off anything weird or complex to approach her. In the eventuality that she would have been cold or mean to you, she would have been a stupid b**** and you should just send her to hell and pass to another call. But if she accepts and schedules something for this, bingo!:D

Now its a damn long post, i'll let you think about this whole thing and tell me your impressions.:)

[SaturnReturn]

You see what happens here? You're putting her in a box


I know someone who I'd like to put in a box. I'd take that box, seal it up, put a million postage stamps on it, and address it to:

The Wilderness
Somewhere cold
Earth

In the box I'd put a warm coat, a battery powered cattle prod to fend off the wildlife (just a little), a book on navigating by the stars, and another on general foraging tactics. I'd wait for her to eventually find her way back home and hope to god that by then she'd grown up.

Unfortunately I can't do that. Apparently it would be against 'the law'. Bloody health and safety. :rolleyes:

P.S. I was amazed to find out that 'ponderate' is actually a real word. At first it looked like one of those silly American words which are just made longer for the sake of it, e.g. facilitate-alise-ment-ism

[IndoorSnowStorm]

@Kyonshi
Sounds pretty good to me! But there is one problem, again. (Sorry if all these complications are frustrating, I'm in a serious situation here.) When we talked, it was more of a light conversation, with little details about herself. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, as I have found out that one of my better friends talks with her during breakfast at school.

[Kyonshi]

There's nothing problematic in having a light conversation with someone; the important thing is to make contact, and it happened. And you know what's even better? She liked it!!!! How more awesome do you want it to be?:D

Btw, stop seeing problems where there isn't really any. You'll only condition your mind to always be suspicious about everything. Take things has they are right now, its all good!:+ One step at the time.

Now look what you've found out; one of your buddy is talking to her during breakfast. Another ace in your sleeve! You remember that i told you things would put themselves into place? Well you have a nice demonstration here!:) Now you could go eat your meal with them (i suppose its at school right?) and you'll now find out how does she reacts during a second encounter. I'm confident its a great opportunity.

Ok now, just to keep things has they are and benefit of a great timing, ask your friend to tell her one of his buddies (you) will be joining them cuz he needs to tell you something, yadda yadda. If she's not aware he's your friend, the surprise effect will be even better and you'll see her reaction without any preparation. That could be a good hint about how she sees you! In the end, you'll be in a good position to chat with her again; you'll be with a good friend who can help you build up the conversation. How about that?:D

[Jav]

Yeah, that breakfast thingy is a great opportunity. Take it!

Also, like Kyonshi already pointed out, but still: if you're telling yourself there is a problem when there isn't, that is a sign of low confidence. Not saying it's weird to have little confidence, but imagine you're the girl. She liked your company. Is there any reason she wouldn't enjoy your company next time? No dude! Don't worry so much. :)

[MENGKESHI]

In the box I'd put a warm coat, a battery powered cattle prod to fend off the wildlife (just a little), a book on navigating by the stars, and another on general foraging tactics. I'd wait for her to eventually find her way back home and hope to god that by then she'd grown up.

"Navigating by the stars"? "Avoiding circular reasoning: 101" surely! :)

[SaturnReturn]

Well I guess navigating isn't the right word, with the lack of anything nautical, but I'll admit I still don't know what you mean about circular reasoning. Anyway, things don't have to make sense when it comes to girls.:P

[Challenger #001]

When do they ever? XD

[MENGKESHI]

Sorry for not being clear, I just meant that at the times I have felt like this in the past, "Avoiding Circular Logic" would have been my choice of book to put in the box :D

[SaturnReturn]

Oooooooooooooh. Ultra-lulz. :lol

I saw a facebook conversation between two female friends recently:

Girl 1: Look at this item of ugly clothing that you don't need, but is super-fashionable and would make you a better friend to me. It's now on sale, reduced form heinously expensive, to only ludicrously expensive. That's half-price, so only half the shame!
Girl 2: Oh yes, I've seen other people wearing such things and I imagine if I were to wear it then my life would be better, despite that fact that I would look ridiculous in it. Oh, but wait, I wouldn't have anywhere to wear it. . But! I could go to [I]insert daft expensive restaurant name here again and I could wear it there.
Girl 1: Do it. With the money you save on it being half-price, you can cover the cost of the expensive meal, as well as the kebab you have to eat afterwards because the expensive meal was so unsubstantial.
Girl 2: Wow! You're so smart. *girly clap*
Girl 1: I know. *girly clap*

OK, so in fairness, I'm exaggerating (a little), and most girls I know aren't like this. Even these girls aren't like this most of the time. But I do feel that girls seem to do this sometimes for the particular means of justifying otherwise unjustifiable fashion purchases. Why would someone buy an item of clothing, to wear to a restaurant, that they're only going to so that they can wear the item of clothing?

This is actually one of my biggest problems with girls, i.e. I can't abide this kind of indulgence very often. I much prefer girls who just wear what they like and buy things spontaneously when they see them, rather than hunting out deals on fashionable items of clothing. I think fashion actually makes girls very unapproachable these days. I'd say 90% of girls I see on the train every day look like they've modelled themselves on a magazine article. The effect is two fold. Firstly, it elevates them to a false level of attractive-ness, which makes me feel ugly just because I don't do the same, but also degrades them by emphasizing the looks side of things so much. Secondly, they all look so similar that it's kind of boring. Actually, young men are probably worse with this, to be fair, particularly as they have less varied fashion choices, but I don't notice them so much. I also think this is why a lot of guys say they prefer the way their lady looks when she's just in PJs or whatever. It's not that she looks hotter that way, but they don't have to try and keep up with the pretense of it all.

Don't get me wrong, I really like girls, but it's stuff like this that makes it a hassle being anything more than friends with them sometimes, particularly as I struggle to not bring this stuff up if it's annoying me. Luckily friends is enough for me most of the time.

[MENGKESHI]

Haha that is all so true. I see you're a fellow Londoner - once my wife dragged me out to Westfield which is as hell on earth as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that kept me from killing myself from boredom was the hilarity of watching all the women trying to act cool to impress the sales assistants in the fashion shops lol :D

Still, what I've realised over the years is that looking good is a serious hobby for most girls. It is obviously a total waste of money (the manufacturers must be dying of smugness at their 2000% profits) but I suppose for them it's like buying (non-essential) gaming items like gaming keyboards etc. or like trying to show off in the guitar shops to put the sales assistant to shame hehe ;)

It's probably a good thing that you struggle not to bring up the stuff that's annoying you though, otherwise the annoyances just build up and you either suffer in silence or the problems end up becoming the sum of their parts!

[MegaGeeza22]

Hey im supposed to write a poem for this woman im seeing and it needs to be ready for xmas lol,
she is 14 years older than me and everything i write sounds like a childish love letter lol. i might just cheat and look online... but shes a facebook fanatic and will probably find out!! is there any poets out there? :(

[Kyonshi]

I studied French Arts, Literature and Letters. So yeah, i've been into poetry a lot, i wrote a good series of them.

You have to know something about this way of making a move... From my very own experience, giving poems is hard... Its a beautiful and visceral way to express our feelings, yes. Thing is, poetry is mostly good when you write for yourself, to vent something, to illustrate a feeling, to seize it and learn about yourself. When you're writing for someone else, you better be sure that you can canalize and choice wisely the words. If love is fueling your inspiration, you have to be dedicated 1000% to it, mind, body and soul. Otherwise, it will look cheezy and you'll probably be very hard on yourself. This is painful for sensitive people like us to find the exact words to charm someone else.

People nowadays proceed in many different ways to seduce someone, but unfortunately, poems are outdated unless you're a master at it. Its one of the most beautiful form of art nonetheless. I ain't judging you and i certainly saying im a master, far from it. People sensitive enough to appreciate the gift of a poem are not common. I've been laughed at and ridiculed because i did this. On the other hand, i know i've touched people, and while im telling you my sad experiences, i still support you in this. The main reason is because you are yourself while you do it, and its always the best when approching someone. But beware that once you'll cross the line, you'll have exposed yourself and your feelings entirely, and if the person aint aware of anything like this from you, it may be a shock. Not in a bad way though, but still, it will be stunning. There will be no turning back. Let me ask you; is this girl's aware you exist, and does she also know that you have feelings for her?

[MegaGeeza22]

Thanks, we see each other on and off, she has kids in there 20s just a few years younger than me! she wanted me to write her a poem and i thought it would be easy! It either sounds like a mixture of love songs or just stupid lol.
we used to work together and i just want it to be perfect. at least she didnt ask me to write a song and sing it to her haha!
edit- il just admit i dont do poetry, im a numbers man and not a wordsworth...

[yeldar2097]

Haha that is all so true. I see you're a fellow Londoner - once my wife dragged me out to Westfield which is as hell on earth as far as I'm concerned.

That the Shepherd's Bush one? I was there about a week ago, fun times :P

[Kyonshi]

Thanks, we see each other on and off, she has kids in there 20s just a few years younger than me! she wanted me to write her a poem and i thought it would be easy! It either sounds like a mixture of love songs or just stupid lol.
we used to work together and i just want it to be perfect. at least she didnt ask me to write a song and sing it to her haha!
edit- il just admit i dont do poetry, im a numbers man and not a wordsworth...

Oh well if she asked you, its fine! And you know, it's not really a concern if you're a number man and not wordsworth; what's important is that she'll see you've been working hard to please her. For a certain amount of time, you will have been devoted to her and that's what can seduce her. It doesn't matter if you write the best poem or not; in fact, i'm probably sure that she knows you're not that good with poetry and just want to test you. So, why do you play the game too? Just relax, write down what you feel about her, what's her best features, physically and mentally. Play with the lines and rimes you create, swap and shift them around. I do that sometimes when my lines don't make sense.

The main goal here is to make her feel she's appreciated and that its worth the time to try and charm her, not that you're the next Pablo Neruda! ;)

[MegaGeeza22]

Cheers Kyonshi:D
i will sit down and brainstorm on sunday...
people will call me geeza rhymes soon haha! il let you know how it goes!
I just dread the look of disgust when she reads it! she asked me what i wanted for xmas and i said a battery for my watch... she wasnt impressed lol

[MENGKESHI]

That the Shepherd's Bush one? I was there about a week ago, fun times :P

Fun times? Must be a different one... :P

[Jav]

So... I'm in a really difficult and unsatisfying situation with this girl. Before any of you says 'plenty more fish in the sea', I want you guys to know that I think she's really special. I don't believe in 'the one', but we have pretty much admitted that we really like each other and that we could be a really good couple. So, what's the problem?

Ok, first of all I'm younger. I'm not saying that's necessarily a problem, but it happens to be the case with us. Not that I care about the very fact I'm younger, it's just that she's also mentally older. And that there is something very important in relationships. Recently we have been talking a lot, including 2-hour telephone conversations and the like. She says I have matured in the last 6 months, and she is right. I feel much more comfortable around her now, and thoughts about a possible relationship arised in both of us. So when we went ice-skating recently, it still really showed the mental age difference between us... You know, when you can't act how you want to act around her because you just... CAN'T, you feel you can't get any closer because she is older and it just doesn't feel right. At home it's okay, but it's because I'm in my comfort zone. However when we go out in public it really emphasizes the difference... It felt like I was out with my older sister... if you know what I mean? And it's really frustrating because I'd love to be that guy she needs in her life, and she has already stated several times there's hardly anything wrong with me and I "see her differently than other guys", and that she'd see no problem if I was only more grown-up...

To be fair to her I can totally see where she's coming from, and she is 100% right, but it doesn't make it less frustrating. I just still lack confidence when I'm not in my comfort zone... I'm not the type who goes out with everyone, who goes drinking with people I've never met, I'm simply not like that. I'm not introvert, but I guess I've just never learnt to... go out and do stuff, therefore I've never extended my comfort zone. One reason we get on so well is because we're both highly gifted. And being highly gifted isn't all jolly, believe me, it has some nasty downsides.

That was a really disappointing night for me, and for her as well. Actually I didn't even mean to get serious that night at all, I just meant to have fun, but you can't ignore the things you see and she is right in that.

Afterwards we talked on MSN and, once again, came to the conclusion it's just not the right time... I guess I'll try again in 2 years -,-". It was a great conversation though, made me feel better, positive ending to it too.

I'm home all day tomorrow, alone, it's so tough mentally... :/

I know you guys can't even help, I can only wait, wait and wait some more until it's the right time... Right now I just can't see myself with any other girl tbh. It's hard. :( But I just needed to get that off my chest...

[MegaGeeza22]

Hey there Jav, i dont know how much older your bird is but mine is 15 years older... shes 40 in a few weeks and it does feel awkward. when we go out shes always saying "people are looking" and "they must think im your mum" haha! but i always say just ignore them... it was hard to start with but as we love each other it works!
The only hard thing for me is that she does cry sometimes saying shes getting old and that il run off with a younger girl one day to have kids lol.
weve never phoned each other, i feel this spoils it for when you meet up because its better to get to no them face to face.. so we just send filthy txts all week and meet up at the weekend.
If i was in your shoes id say i want you now! i dont care what others think... i couldn't wait a few years because anything can happen! I hope you can get the girl you want and i hope you can sort things out!
Time waits for no man (or woman)

[mdhay]

Jav, I'm not one to give relationship advice, as I'm **** at them. But you only live once, you know? If you want her, go get her, you know what I'm saying? If the moment's right, grab hold of her and plant on on her lips for a second longer than normal and tell her how much you love her. That'll get the message through.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I know exactly how you feel Jav, in fact I'm in a similar situation myself right now.

Myself and a very special lady (we're both 21) are both great together and we've admitted that there's a real chemistry there. We've known each other for nearly 5 years now and she even told me that she loved me. But yet nothing has happened. Jeez, talk about complicated! :blarg

Ahh well, life goes on as they say!

[Oryx Crake]

It might not help you guys but one of the things that my ex told me when we were still together that she felt was a bit off was that I tend to over think things or rather that I think a lot about everything but that in a relationship situation that's a bad thing. and this goes to what Jav was saying about "growing up" in the sense that as you mature and become more sure of yourself you tend not to think to much about things like... "I wonder what she thought about what I said just now" or "how can I be more mature and be the kind of person she wants?" those thoughts get in your way.

Its a lot easier said than done, but if your feeling like there's something good going on try not to think about it too much because that will usually make you doubt yourself and hence ruin what you have going for you.

Now obviously I don't know your situations but if these women like you it's because they like who you really are and so you shouldn't feel like you need to control who that person is too much. Try to be secure in your own person and everything will be easier. Oh by the way this was aimed at you too dp.

[mdhay]

Heh, the girl I like doesn't even like me, sure, we have a lot in common, but she's shutting me out, so I have no chance as far as I'm concerned.