I DID IT :)

[Brother Laz]

Won all tracks. On Phantom. With all ships. Without airbrakes, hyperthrust or autopilot. :)

Hardest was Stanza Inter because it is so easy to hit every wall there, compared to tracks such as Hi-Fumii where you realistically only crash once or twice per lap at most even in Phantom class and Manor Top which is so easy to not crash on everywhere else than in the 90* part. And of course the little fact that you can't get into the pit lane without airbrakes unless you bash into the opposite wall to slow down.

Auricom - relatively hard. MM won the race for me. First win.
Feisar - always take the tunnel at the split. Shorter, and you can get through with ease with Feisar. Second win.
Goteki45 - running out of 3+ shield ships by now, won it with all of 00.xx shield strength remaining thanks to me boneheadedly taking the left hand road on the last lap after losing the last three races to three subsequent failures to get through the zigzag tunnel without crashing (didn't want to risk anything this time... hehe), and hitting the invisible barrier at the end in midair and banging right into the wall at a 90 degree angle at the bottom, losing about 20% shield energy right there.
Icaras - forget control, bang from wall to wall and you win if you don't blow up first. Quite hard, because the game seemed intent on giving me a lot of autopilots. Grrr.
Qirex & AG-S - same as Icaras, try to make the few corners you can make without brakes, and rely on straight line speed to win.
Assegai - hardest of all. No shields is trouble when pitting equals losing the race (if you can pit at all). It went pretty much like this: 'shield energy low' 'wa-wa-wa-warning' 'shield - engaged' *CLUNK* *BANG* *THUNK* (<-- me attempting to artistically swing through the angular U turns at the far end of the course) 'disengaging' 'energy drain' [bzzzzzzz] 'wa-wa-wa-warning' *BENG* *SLAM* *CRUNCH* 'shield energy low', repeat about 20 times. Must have gotten at least 15 energy drains in that race. :)

You know you're being a freak when you know that cloak is better than shield because they can't lock on you and send a missile your way while it's active and it hits you right after the protection stops. :)

Now for the prototypes. :) Raped the first two left and right, won the third one with these restrictions with Assegai & Feisar, and the fourth one with all ships except Goteki45... almost there. Bastardly third track. :) :)

[Lance]

.
i love the third track! i can't drive it well, but i still love it anyway. the prototypes are great.

congratulations on your success without airbrakes in phantom. i've not got that much skill
.

[Task]

0_o ... @_@ ... o_0
Why?!?
It's... incredible that you _can_, but... why?!?
I play other racing games and I'm all, like, "dang, but I need airbrakes to take that corner", I've never even considered trying to fly without...
Where do you get your crazy ideas?

[DJ Techno]

:lol: clap, clap, clap, clap, clap!

:lol: clap, clap, clap, clap, clap!

8) clap, clap, clap,clap!

Job Well Done!

Now can you do for the rest of the Wipeout Games?

[xEik]

I agree with Task. I can't see the point. No autopilot, OK, no hyperthrust, oh well, but no brakes? I can't really see the point of it.

BTW are you telling me that you won the fourth prototype with every ship except Goteki45 at Phantom speed without brakes or hyperthrust? :-? I find this hard to believe. Which version is it? Mine is the regular PAL version and although any other track is a piece of cake, I find LS4 extremely difficult at Phantom. Even using brakes and hyperthrust with an AG-5Y5 I hardly manage to win.

If the answer is yes, either we have different versions or you are a much better pilot than me. What's your name in the tables?

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

.
my understanding is that he is working on Prototype tracks 3 and 4, but has not yet won either. he said he beat all the regular circuits, and had just started on the prototypes.

[does anyone really need a reason other than the satisfaction of it to challenge themselves to do the difficult?]
.

[xEik]

As stated, one can see autopilot or hyperthrust as some 'unfair' bonus and try to race only by skill, choosing the perfect raceline (hyperthrust can be unfair in the sense that sometimes you get drains and sometimes you don't).
But brakes are a feature that can be used as much as you want, it's not aleatory. So their use involves only skill.

I can see the point of running 40 km because it's difficult. I can't see the point of doing it barefoot because it makes it harder.

I'm one of those who climb the mountain because it's there but handicapping oneself doesn't make much sense to me.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

eyond the immediate:
,
it's like climbing the North face of the Eiger instead of going up the easier way on the other side. the 'quality' of the achievement depends on the difficulty of gaining success. by choosing the more difficult way, you are deliberately handicapping yourself to make it more challenging. to climb up the North face, you must eliminate some tools and techniques in favour of using others. all racing involves handicaps and rules of one or more kinds, and they are all arbitrary, artificial. to achieve the World's Land Speed Record, you restrict your maximum speed potential by being required to travel while touching the ground. if there were to be an unrestricted challenge to speed, it would involve travel in space rather than in air. would require unlimited amounts of resources. the challenge would be to achieve the highest speed allowed by the physics of reality. at the moment, that's the only sort of race i know that doesn't involve the deliberate handicapping restrictions of method, design, and environment
.

[Brother Laz]

BTW are you telling me that you won the fourth prototype with every ship except Goteki45 at Phantom speed without brakes or hyperthrust? :-? I find this hard to believe. Which version is it?

I stand corrected. Wrong track. :-? Have to do the second track with Goteki45 instead of the fourth track (which is easy of course, but I still have to actually do it. One doesn't get 32 medals in one day). Haven't even started on that fourth track yet. :) It doesn't seem too hard: all 45* angular bends which is somewhat like Sampa Run - but it's got no landmarks and I haven't raced it much so I end up missing corners I shouldn't because I don't know it well enough. First get that damn third track done. :)

OTOH, I did win the third one with Qirex. Now that I've finally learned not to oversteer into the inner barrier at that bend that dips (just before one of the little jumps that leads to a right into a hexagon tunnel) like I ALWAYS do on Terminal, or shoot at reflectored ships (oops) at max range on the bridge <-- scrap one Pirhana ship. :)

[DJ Techno]

You used no Air brakes!

I've tried racing with out the use of airbrakes also. It's really not to difficult once you get it down right.

A control of speed and watching your turns and corners everytime you move is how I got it work.

So Brother Laz how about you?

[xEik]

The difficulty in Phantom LS4 PAL regular version is not if the circuit is tricky or not. The real difficulty is that contenders' skills seem to have been boosted to an incredibly great extent.
However, Special Edition is said to have opponents that are much easier to beat at that speed in that circuit.

Just tell me when you get to win that race in those conditions. It would be a great achievement.

@Lance: Again, chosing the hard side of a mountain doesn't seem a handicap to me. It's just more challenging. Now, trying to climb, let's say the Everest, without the appropiate clothes, no matter if the route chosen is the easiest or the hardest, would seem pointless to me. Anyways, everyone has his own reasons for doing whatever they do. I try not to question those of the others and I don't mind if others can't see the reason for the things that I do.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

.
i really hate it when i shoot a deflector-activated ship. which i often do.

xEik: our disagreement seems to be dependent on the definition of the word 'handicap'. i'm defining it as an intentional restriction on methods and equipment. you seem to be defining it as throwing away something that is required to complete the task. yet it seems to me that airbrakes are not required to negotiate the course; they are just required to do it as well as possible. this is not the same thing as climbing Everest without protective clothing, since the clothing is required just to continue life in the harsh environment, let alone to pursue an arcane achievement like climbing to the summit. some climbing teams have deliberately 'handicapped' themselves by not carrying oxygen with them, made that the goal, to reach the summit under 'natural' conditions without that artificial aid. this is a bit like the same attitude as 'natural light' photographers who refuse to use electronic flash. but at least you're not likely to die from not having a flashgun. nor from flying a videogame racecraft without airbrakes, which is just an artificial restriction. in real-life athletics, a handicap is just something to even the odds between one competitor and another, but what we are talking about would be considered racing rules. IMO
.

[xEik]

I know what handicaps are. Like for example in Golf or in Go (oriental strategy game). But the airbrake thing still seems weird to me. Of course someone could consider it a challenge to win every race using only rear view. It would be a challenging thing to do as well but I wouldn't see the point either.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[JABBERJAW]

this discussion has come up before. sure it can be done, but certainly no best times can be achieved, so why bother(on phantom speed). Unless of course that course needs no airbrakes and the gas can be held down constantly without ever letting up, talons reach for example. letting up on the gas is much slower than using the airbrakes

[Brother Laz]

The difficulty in Phantom LS4 PAL regular version is not if the circuit is tricky or not. The real difficulty is that contenders' skills seem to have been boosted to an incredibly great extent.

Definitely noticed that. ;) Auricom, four attempts: 10th, 8th, 8th, 9th. Assegai, three attempts: 9th, eliminated, eliminated. Icaras, three attempts: 7th, 5th (yay!), eliminated.

Wish all tracks were like this. ;) Instead, you can get first place on 7 of the 8 and 2 of the 4 within one lap. *sigh*

Btw: won Spilskinanke and Vostok Island with the Auricom some time ago with the same limitations, but I don't know if it can be done with the Qirex on Valparaiso. Nice to try next (if I get nowhere on prototype 4). :-?

[xEik]

I'm still wondering if you use SE or regular.

And it's true some circuits don't need too much braking. In Porto Kora I only tap the airbrake in the final curve so I guess that performance shouldn't be really affected in this kind of circuits with the mentioned limitations.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

.
Porta Kora? :o
my lack of skill often forces me to use airbrake steering in the two corners before the jump, even in Rapier class! sometimes in vector. you guys must be better pilots than me. sigh...
.

[xEik]

Well, I'm talking about PAL handling and using an AG-5Y5. Ican't remember if I use more the airbrakes in Porto Kora when piloting Icaras. AG-5Y5 is my fave for every game.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[jmoid]

i used to do 2097 at phantom class with only a bit of airbraking - that was back when I was a Feisar-only boy though, and i used to hit lots of walls. i wouldn't even try it on w3!

[Brother Laz]

I'm still wondering if you use SE or regular.

And it's true some circuits don't need too much braking. In Porto Kora I only tap the airbrake in the final curve so I guess that performance shouldn't be really affected in this kind of circuits with the mentioned limitations.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

Is this the regular or SE forum? :)

And yeah... first place on PK just before the final bend - first lap. Sad Sad Sad. The only tracks I know of where you can get first in one lap are Altima in WO1 Venom if you get all the speed-ups and many turbos, and PK, MM, P-Mar, Manor Top (!) and PT1 in WO3. I suspect Altima, T'sR, Sagarmatha and possibly Terramax are just as easy in SE but I have only played SE at a friend and don't actually have it. :D

[xEik]

You have a good point there but sometimes people have posted in the wrong forum causing confusion. With this said, I repeat what I said before: If you achieve victory in LS4 Phantom with all ships and without brakes you'll be granted a place in my 'Top pilots hall of fame'.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[infoxicated]

...beside me! ;)

[zargz]

.. and me!! :o

but that's nEver gonna happen! and I reAlly hope u prov(f?)e me wrong :D :D

lance: portO kora .. 8)

me - out!

[Lance]

.
:o
:oops:
.

[Brother Laz]

(looks around in confusion)

Almost got the third prototype done: just the stupid Goteki and Qirex left. I hate that thing: it handles like a concrete block and doesn't accelerate after the inevitable crash in every corner. And it's got low shields too, YAY! In WO64 they got the worst special weapon. Now they got nerfed even more. C'MON!

Fourth track not cooperating. Made 2nd with Assegai in the second last lap and according to drain-O-vision the #1 was at half shields (two quakes would've done it), then I wanted to pit and the #3 rammed me into the divider and I blew up. Grrr :evil: Seems like this track is like rolling dice to me. Either you can turbo through the roof of the tunnel and move up a lot of places (if you do remember to steer right and not fall off the track) or you hit the ceiling and come to a dead stop and lose about 40% shield energy. Blah and blah.

[zargz]

we told u, didnt we 8)

[Brother Laz]

And you don't even need hyperthrust to hit the ceiling. As I found out again: I was 1st for half a lap, then distracted by a warning I proceeded to hit the ceiling and crash down into the wall. 47.xx shield energy to 00.00 in .1 second.

Gah, blah, bah.

[zargz]

:lol:

we cant blame u 4not tryin'! :D

[Vasudeva]

I might be mistaken, but recently I inserted some updated times again for Mega Mall (both 3 and SE) and Altima VII. I was not entirely disappointed because I think I beat Zargz here and there ;). He he.

I would have liked some more competition in the classic tracks though.

Peace!
V.

[zargz]

huh!?? :o

grrr ! :evil:

8)

[Task]

Yeah, I put some time into my SE TT records yesterday. I only did the wipeout league, but I did post a few good times. I'll probably put some time into the classic league soon.
Yeah, zargz, you've got some good Sampa Run and Stanza Inter times there.

[zargz]

my favorites - SI SR HF & T
J: u 4got 2mention HI-FUMI !!! :P
and ..P-mAr!
<as I'm checking the damage done>
AND .. tErminAl!!
and .. u no? I better not go on ! :evil: .. eeh .. mm? :-?

hey how about this guy on MM vector:

1. anthony townsend USA Feisar 0:54:45 !!!

ain't that about a bit** !?
that's probably hiz lap time huh

as thruster once said - back 2the .. table .. no! boad .. or smthn :wink:

V: yay! those 2higher classes I didnt race 4ages .. :roll:
and some months since the 2lower .. :-?