Why Isn't Wipeout More Popular and 'Bigger'

[dadada_999]

This is something i have often wondered. So far I have been satisfied with the series. After all, it has been around since the 90s and has managed to hold its own in a genre dominated by racing simulators. For example, on message boards debating say the 'console wars', the game is still sometimes mentioned as a noteworthy Playstation exclusive. That said, the game is clearly not comparable to Playstation or PS3 'flagship' titles in sales or size or fanbase. In fact, in many shops in my country the title was either not sold or had a quickly depreciating price possibly indicating poor sales. Now i'm not at all bothered with popularity and games that do do well in my country tend to be those with poor online reviews etc. However poor sales does have an effect on development as well as the quantity of material for series, such DLCs etc. Also, if the series was more popular and did better in sales, there wouldn’t be a huge question mark over the future of the series.

So why is this? Some have put the series’ ‘cult status’ down to some flat entries for the series following 2097 or possibly earlier, or, in other words, Fusion, Pulse and Pure. While these games probably sold poorly or okay, their critical reviews do not suggest that they were bad entries. In fact, a cursory glance at game reviewing website or game review compilations reveal that every single entry for the series on a Sony platform has had a rating of above 80% approval. This is extremely successful for a game series and in fact puts Wipeout as a series above other long-running game franchises including Silent Hill, Tomb Raider etc.

Another reason I can’t understand the series’ low-key status is that Wipeout is actually unique, and not only in the racing genre for the PS3 but for racing games in general. There simply isn’t another franchise like it, and hasn’t been since F-Zero abandoned the playing field. The only reason I can think of then is that anti-gravity racing is not very popular and most prefer traditional driving sims. Maybe it’s another case of a game or gaming type falling out of favor, something not unheard of in gaming.

In any case, I am loving the latest entry in the series. Since I’ve not yet bought any other racing game, Wipeout HD is currently my principal racing game for the PS3. And even after I play gran turismo or the latest motorstorm or burnout, I’m sure wipeout will continue to standout. This is just a discussion I thought I’d create.

[mikrucio]

Its because the learning curve is HARD.

Sometimes i get mates over and I show them wipeout, they see me play a few races on phantom and win on elite. Then they are like wow thats awesome!
it looks pretty easy though! then they have a go. and errr well you know the rest of the story...

But its not a problem because thats what we want..

Saying all that though. I still have not been able to complete motorstorm pacific rift! those damn 7 and 8 rank races are RIDICULOUS! but iv got platinum on Wipeout. hmmph go figure..

[Darkdrium777]

The game is hard to master, it takes a lot of time to become good.

Also, there is very little publicity in the mainstream market for WipEout.

Where do you read those console wars things? On forums. Who goes on forums? Nerds, geeks, this type of people (No offense, it's just a point I'm making ;))

Who buys games en-masse? The general populace. Not us nerds here on the forums.

So while WipEout is well known in the circles around the internet, and gets great critical reception from every single gaming news outlet on the internet, the public is oblivious to it's existence.

[TwitchySpitfire]

I would suggest, in theory, the idea that the main popular culture is more concerned with current, more modern themed forms of entertainment. WipEout has a futurist, idealist and frantic theatrical atmosphere that has gotten much attention.

Though, it should be said that Homeworld, Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, Mass Effect and a few others have gotten more attention within the mainstream, but always tend to have a small fan base. The difference, though, is that they are not racing games. Racing games tend to be not always be mainstream either.

[Dan Locke]

Well, it's hard (floaty physics), it's dorky (a science fiction racing series featuring "big-name" techno artists), and - if we want to be perfectly honest - it's not very well-balanced when it comes to opponents (except, maybe, for Wipeout 64 and Wipeout HD). Customization is also big in racing games, and Wipeout has never really had it, outside of Wipeout Fusion. Also, it's likely that nobody would really remember F-Zero if it hadn't been for Captain Falcon's inclusion in Super Smash Bros. - hovercraft racing is probably a genre as specific to the '90s as the point-and-click adventure.

All of these factors limit its appeal.

[Nutcase:259]

Whoah Whoah Whoah what??? Sinse when has electronica been dorky? or the design of it, surely a game that was promoted in nightclubs is IN NO WAY nerdy

I always was under the assumption that WipEout was the cool persons game? my whole world has been torn apart :lol


anyway on topic: its because a game aint been released in ages and not many ppl buy DLC or PSP stuff

plus its hard

[Dan Locke]

Whoah Whoah Whoah what??? Sinse when has electronica been dorky? or the design of it, surely a game that was promoted in nightclubs is IN NO WAY nerdy
Maybe in England, but not here. And it's not the music that's dorky - techno's just "there", a kind of music that people know about but don't really bother with; using it as the big selling point for a game is where the dorkiness comes in. At least, over here.

[ONlock]

I think it's partly a game design problem, genre problem and a platform problem:

* High skill ceiling
* Lifeless online mode. (No lobby chat, no voice chat)
* Online mode is plagued by lag
* It hasn't gotten enough exposure in the media.
* Racing games in general lose to the more voilent games, like: the COD games, MOH, CS, etc.
* It's a PS3 exclusive title. By making it an exclusive title, you exclude a massive amount of players, in favour of making money.

[Nutcase:259]

ahh i see, perhaps electronic isnt as big over in the US of A as it is over here

[Laeke]

* It's a PS3 exclusive title. By making it an exclusive title, you exclude a massive amount of players, in favour of making money.

I do not think the exclusive status is really a problem, I would guess the bulk of the sales for previous titles were done on Sony consoles, by a very wide margin.
The real problem there lies more with the underwhelming success of the PS3 as a system although it is not the only factor: WO these days is definitely not a contender for other racing games even on its platform, GT5 (when it comes out... one day) will probably sell millions upon release.

As it has been said, scifi racing felt from grace at some point. F-Zero was mentioned, and this series is currently sleeping in a closet.

Someone pointed out that currently the shift was on "current, more modern themed forms of entertainment." and that seems to be true to an extent (maybe because the consoles and computers are much more able today to tackle "photorealism", "physics" or "complex interactions"). When I look back at the first game of the series, I think it is a pretty good example of overcoming technical limitations by a clever design (ex. the blocky, angular ships). WO-HD might be a stunningly beautiful game (it is still up there on the PS3, one of the few current consoles games truly in "High Definition") but it is maybe too old fashioned by today's standards in term of design or mechanics -including the difficulty & learning curve-. Someone mentioned the lack of customisation for instance, a very popular feature at the time (now possible thanks to technical evolution, en phase with the current social evolution Facebook/networking). In general the franchise has very little "fluff": no story, no avatars, no in-game store, no garage, little unlockable content. The game is what you get out of the box: tracks, ships & racing.

Of course, going with digital distribution and little marketing also probably didn't help, although it is easy to say with hindsight.
But the WO star was already fading at that point: the game being on PSP while being absent on the PS2 is quite telling.

At this point, Wipeout was a "core" or "cult" title, with a very strong following and well-recognised among regular gamers. This is why it was made a flagship title on the PSP or the PSN and that it was ensured to release very early in the system's life, because this demographic, while not being the most populated, is always the first to adopt a system (or a new method of buying games).

Regarding electronic music, it is definitely a genre with little marketing power for the masses. Yeah sure "electronica" -don't like that term, way too vague... but for the sake of the argument- is somewhat popular, but less than many other genres. And while Wipeout did snatch some reasonably popular names (FSOL, Chem.Bros, Prodigy, Sasha, Aphex Twin, Kraftwerk, although one could argue that some of those artists would ring a bell for an average joe on the street), it is still pretty niche overall, even for Europe, esp. since the biggest names were on the older versions of the game. Ed Rush & Optical? Massive, mang, I am sure DnB fans will be thrilled, all 26 of them. ;)
Nutcase mentions the marketing in discotheques, but those places are not representative of a broad demographic, quite the contrary: they are filled mostly with urban hip young people willing to pay a beer 13€ (true story, people) is a-ok. So yeah the game is "cool", appeals to some very specific sub-cultures and gamers, but not beyond.

To be honest, I think that the game would have had to be drastically different or watered down if it really aimed for a large success. SL did their best and the product they delivered was very good and up to par with expectations. At one point in the past, the WO franchise was more in tune with the general gaming public. Since then videogames, the console market, and the public have all undergone massive changes. That could not be helped.

tl;dr version: pretty much agree with most of the points made before.

[MetaKraken]

I like electronic musics. Also, WOHD does have the use of custom soundtracks so I use musics that's WMMT related, because it has trance and I use it for Zone, Zone Battle and Detonator, IMO :).

[Aeroracer]

Wipeout isnt as popular as it should be in my opinion because....

its a crap game.......


no seriously its because imo...

1 crap marketing.released on disk in the stores when the game was near enough dead.

2 game is really hard.new players simply dont understand why they should be bothered to turn off pilot assist cos at first when you do it is suicide as the game is so hard to new players.well thats how i thought when i started.

3 so many new players use pilot assist... playing the game like that makes it really crap and pointless it dammaged the game imo

4 i played it when it came out for about an hour and never touched it again for 9 months cos i thought the same as written in point 2 and 3 above.I only got into it cos i got super bored one day.

5 fake id's killed life span as its really annoying and off putting when you start playing for the first time and look for a online game with another beginner and think you have found one but in fact its some dik with a fake id who has been playing 24 hours a day for a year.you dont really get this crap on 360 as you have to pay for each id you have.... like they say "money talks bulls**t walks" so you dont get that stuff there.

6 company went bust is always bad for a game trying to take off i guess.

there are other minor things but i think the above kinda sums it up why wipeout never tookoff like some super game that it could have done.

this is how i see it

[blackwiggle]

Studio Liverpool never went bust, they {Psygnosis] got bought out by Sony then got turned into SL by them.
Then Sony mothballed any future Wipeout games after FURY and a heap of staff got retrenched because of it.
SL still has a heartbeat, ZICO making the HOME Wipeout Museum is proof of it.

Ironically it seems that last decision might have been reversed.

[someguy789]

1) Wipeout's never been advertised very much so most people haven't even heard about it.
2)Lots of new players find the game to hard and give up on it (I almost did this on HD but luckily I managed to get back into it later and started playing properly.)
3)Most gamers prefer simulations like GT or florza or just play FPS's (lots of my friends see WO as a "kids game" and play nothing but COD...)

[dadada_999]

Hi again. Thanks for all the replies so far. I don't spend much time on forums anymore and was also out of town for a short while, so apologies for leaving this thread. I thought i'd just respond to a few points made so far, and would do so point by point for simplicity.

Difficulty - I agree the learning is steep, and this may be a huge factor. Surprisingly, I've not played many Wipeout games, and played Wip3out about 4 years after its release, well into the PS2 era. The idea was to "relive" my experience of earlier Wipeout games. When i played Wip3out, i found it difficult to say that least. I almost gave up. It was after several months of playing it on and off that i finally got into it again. After a while, tracks that were once impossible to play became my favorite tracks and the sense of satisfaction one gained from mastering a track that was once too difficult is hard to state. I like to think of this as an irony in Wipeout gameplay. Difficulty doesn't necessarily put people off. Demons Souls is another game i'm playing and is renowned for its difficulty. Fans of dungeon crawlers love it!

Theme - as many of you have mentioned, the game is a futuristic racer with few modern elements. I cannot see how this can possibly be a negative considering the popularity of non-racing games with futuristic elements. I would not expect Wipeout to be ‘dorky’ to fans of FPS games like Halo, Gears of War, Kill Zone and Resistance, RPGs like Mass Effect, Fallout and Final Fantasy, to name just a few. The futuristic theme is mainly what separates Wipeout from arcade racers and sims. Of course some futuristic games are not for everyone. The Japanese have forever been making Mecha games, but very few have caught on since the mechwarrior days on the PC. Some games simply fall out of favor.

Gameplay – I won’t dwell on the unique aspects of Wipeout because it’s a futuristic racer, possibly the only one left. Some of you have mentioned customization. Customization is something I have never really enjoyed that much on consoles. It’s too much hassle for me. I have always liked Wipeout’s ‘plug n play’ gameplay -- that is, you feel bored, turn on your machine, click circle twice and start racing. I liked extensive customization on PC games, not so much on consoles. Some futuristic games don’t give a back story or feature any background. I rather like this as it allows the player to do the imagining.

Music – Wipeout is one of the few franchises known for its use of music. Techno beat and electronica is perfect for Wipeout’s futuristic theme and fast past gameplay. It’s hard to state how well game and music complement each other. And you don’t need to like a type of music to appreciate its suitability for a game. Wipeout HD enables you to use your own music but I would never use music that I normally listen to for Wipeout and I can’t imagine anyone else would either.

[SaturnReturn]

The learning curve was a huge part of what initially made me like this game. Sucking other types of games really puts me off if I have to replay part of a story constantly to get the practice I need to progress. With most modern games I give up on the tutorial - taking half an hour just to learn controls and basic moves a real buzz-kill.
With this I knew I sucked, but it was easy to persevere, because controls were simple and I could play for any length of session to practice, without having to commit much time. I could also easily see my improvement by looking at times and rankings. Then there was the mystery of how on earth the top guys got their times. It made me want to persevere more just to know how they did it. Also, I think with HD the way things were gradually unlocked was perfect to keep my interest too. It just worked for me. That's all having played very little of any WipEout game before, and so not really having any reason to get into HD other than general enjoyment. So a HD style learning curve can work for some, at least, and might have worked for more people too, if it weren't for pilot assist, which actually made it harder to control in the first place.

[MegaGeeza22]

I hate games that have cutscenes... and wipeout has none and thats why i love it!!
Wipeout has no story and i think thats why it suffers, its just a racer! I believe they should make a career mode which starts you off in a crappy old Qirex and wen you complete a few races then Qirex will let you loose on there more high end ships and compete in big races and tournaments and when you do good at these they offer you the chance to compete in no assist races with the top pilots!! but as it is today its just pic up and play, theres no incentive to play with no assist! i hope someone somewhere sees that wipeout needs a career mode... would you play this?:D

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Some prefer leagues,some prefer career mode. If there are leagues,maybe giving pilots names would sort of complete the storyline.If there is a career mode,maybe at the start you could decide how long your contract would be and then from there you decide which team you join.Like F1 2010.
But some prefer story mode. I find story mode quite difficult as the developers will have to decide who is the ultimate winner of that certain season.And if there IS a story mode,will they concentrate on the inter-team rivalries or will it be something else?
I guess Different things appeal to different people.I find that Race Campaign is a mix of Career and League.
I don't know if this has been mentioned before,but is one probable reason because of not releasing track packs? The FX-350 is the transition from the FX-300 to the FX-400.Maybe by releasing track packs the continuity may be there.

[DJ Techno]

AND some prefer a story line to keep on continuing. but with better ways of making it real


like Halo or Killzone



Wipeout HD/Fury still had that three things that tick off a person

actual damage and feel.
Come the **** on! if the computer is hit with a bomb right in front of itself. and is still moving like it was untouched. but when a player is hit. and everyone can agree. you are stuck for about 5 secs or more. trying to get the thrust and speed back up. and put down two or three positions.

how come that supposed feel real racing play. will make anyone mad.


the story needs to get back to its roots.

where their were pilots with lifes and story and more

this fx 300 th3n 350, hell just because it was last left at F9000 in Wipeout Fusion.

doesn't mean you stop using the imagination and creativeness

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

If I remember correctly,the AI used to have instant weapons.By that,they had a weapon without going over a weapon pad. Was that problem patched?
Maybe one reason is because there is the maximum 8 in a room so much so that you cannot observe races between others.Unless StarCraft 2 is the first game to introduce this.

[Criz]

I almost never post but this topic was kind of interesting so I couldn't resist.

I think most of the topics discussed here are too specific. I think it's better abstract the topic a little bit and focus on some points that makes a game successful then go into more specific details.

Example:

1: Easy to learn, hard to master. This is what makes a game attractive at a competitive level. If it's to hard to learn, people will stop play it and if the skill ceiling so too shallow people won't continue to play.

In term of wipeout, it's indeed hard to master which is good. However as most people do say it's to hard to learn. This has nothing to do with playing with pilot assist or not. It's mainly about track design. Why? If I take myself as an example, the biggest problem when I started playing wipeout was not the turns but remembering the tracks and the fact that's hard to see upcoming turns in wipeout. Also the fact that the steering in wipeout is extremely volatile. I've introduced many people to wipeout and in every case they will choose a craft with the best steering which is wrong because they will overcompensate their turns and will be having a hard time staying on the track. Playing a craft with lower steering would mostly solve this but they would still suffer from overcompensating.

How to fix:
What you could do is that the introducing tracks would be very easy read. In other words it should be easy to tell how the track turns as you play. You should also only start with crafts that have low steering. There should also not be any speedpads in turns or ankward elevation that makes the vision worse or turning uncomfortable. Example: Start left turn on anulpha pass.
These should not require you to use the airbrakes as well. Then as the map progress more difficult elements will be added.

Back to (1)
As I said the game needs to be easy to learn but hard to master. The biggest problem for new players is often (if they play online) to face a better opponent that is way beyond the player skill level. A system that introduce such system will have a negative impact on the new player.
"People are too good for me" , "i'll just get pwned" ... and so on are common thought generated by this which is false but keeps the player from playing.
So several games have solved this. One of the most popular is of cource Starcraft 2 with their automatch and division system.

What it means is that when you automatch you will only face players at the same difficulty as yourself which is good as it prevents the thoughts as I mentioned above.

However a automatch system doesn't solve everything as it is know that many players even get discourages by playing players on a equal skill level.
For those players their needs to be an alternative to the online which is of course the single player. Infact many players never even play online so having a good single player is crucial to keep players playing the game.

I feel like a made a quite large post and I could probably continue on for hours but I feel that wipeout misses out some key points which is standard in most games these days which is the biggest reason why wipeout is not such a popular game.

/criz

[DjM1zw1z]

Personally, if wipeout was a lot more popular, it would ruin the game for me.

[Darkdrium777]

Can you elaborate because I find the relation between the words "popular" and "ruined" to be confusing.
I'm sure it's not just me either.

To me popular would mean more players... And that's it. I've never heard of someone saying that more players was bad which is why I am confused.

[MENGKESHI]

In my opinion there is one and only one reason that Wipeout (especially HD) isn't bigger and that is TERRIBLE ADVERTISING! I consider myself to be a Wipeout fan (not compared to some people here I know...) and I didn't even know about this game until I was browsing PSN store looking for game updates. I saw it there and thought what must have also gone through the heads of thousands of others: "Wow, the Wipeout franchise must have really gone downhill to be having the PS3 release hiding away here in the budget PSN bin". Still, having played the old PS games, I thought I'd give it a try if only to revive the old nostalgia. Little did I know I was in for the best racing game ever created. Seriously this should have been one of the PS3 flagship releases not a budget PSN title that only hardcore fans come to seek out. The music (I don't like it) is not a problem thanks to the custom soundtracks and also I personally don't think the learning curve is too hard at all with pilot assist + venom etc... Oh and of course it's always better to have more players --> more money --> more development + support --> more games :D

[Dan Locke]

Come the **** on! if the computer is hit with a bomb right in front of itself. and is still moving like it was untouched. but when a player is hit. and everyone can agree. you are stuck for about 5 secs or more. trying to get the thrust and speed back up. and put down two or three positions.
Actually, the annoying thing here is that it's the same for both players and bots. Before, it was the bots that got stopped for ages and the players that cruised right through.