(SSGX Origins) Let's make a Wipeout game! This time for real!

[Xpand]

Hi! I've been making my Atlantica track in 3D and I got really enthusiastic with the idea of making a new wipeout game, also about the FX150 league.
I found some interesting software from Microsoft that is called XNA game studio that is free and you can find it here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/aa937791.aspx
And some pictures of an example of what the software can do: http://catalog.xna.com/en-US/GameDetails.aspx?catalogEntryId=734448d5-cfed-4ea9-844a-de23b31db7d2&type=2
The only bad thing is that you have to have experience with Visual C#...
But that is easy to learn too.

So, if there are any programmers around the forum or if you know some who can help us, I thank you!
We also need visuals and texture artists.
I would also like some modelers to step foward and help making the craft models and tracks.

I'm not aiming at something very complex, especially because I think we do not have a wipeout developer amongst us and we'll probably have to start from the begining, no weapons, just a improved version of WipEout from 1995... I'm seeing this more like a demonstration that we can show to the developers of wipeout and then, if they like it, we'll probably have an "all clear" to a new wipeout series!


Oh I also found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgChURF5fQE&feature=player_embedded#

And here are the pics of Atlantica (still in development)
(you can see the layout of the track and concept drawings in my albums)
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2933/charon.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7770/geminisr.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3231/hydrus.jpg
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1478/neptunesplit.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9418/phoenixh.jpg
This one shows one of the huge problems with texturing turns.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3816/texturebug.jpg

[Xpand]

Good news!! I managed to make a Feisar rotate on screen!!
You can't control it yet, but I think it is a very good improvement from 0 to this on only 2 hours of learning!
On the attachments.
Unzip and run the feisar.exe

In order to run the "game" you should have XNA Framework 3.1 Red.

[Mu5]

Yo mate - Nice work and great idea :) :+

I thought about this when i downloaded the 3d racing game starter kit last year - I wonder how easy it would be to modify into something resembling wipeout? Would be great fun to try!! :)

It would take serious programming skill to recreate the handling and physics from 1995.

What format are the car models in? We should try and get a wipEout model racing in that kit for starters :D That would rock :+

[Xpand]

Well, the primitive model (without conversion for the game) is a X-file (Direct-x original file).
Well, there are easier ways to program, for example blender is capable of making complex games in a very easy way, I can make racing games in that (although with no AI nor time nor laps because I haven't learned that yet). But the problem with blender is that the executable file needs loads of dll's in order to work which makes a small game "weigh" a lot on your hard drive...
I've put the X file and the texture in the attachments.

[SaturnReturn]

If in the position where you would be posting after yourself in a thread within the same 24 hour period - please use the edit function instead to add further detail to the first post.

Thanks
SR

(Late one this but just noticed the above double post ;))

[Xpand]

Oh sorry! Thanks for the advice! After I posted I noticed the edit button and I was like: :brickwall

[Mu5]

Nice one! :+

I will get Blender and the starter kit fired up :) good work again m8

[Xpand]

I made two concept drawings of the Assegai and AG-Systems ships:
1873
1872
What do you think?
I think the AG-S looks a bit like an Harimau... I'll probably redesign it...

[andy]

those sketches are excellent :D

[Connavar]

This is already one of my projects ... :)

[Rotational_aspect]

If you want to make a game more rapidly, why not try 3D Gamestudio? It has templates for 'click together' games like racing (although with cars)- and it has built in model and game world editors.

Top it off it has a free version too.

This sounds like an advert but it is a good tool.

Out of interest I am making (or thinking) of making a racing game, although more of an evolution of Wipeout.

[Xpand]

Well, I know nothing about programming, but I'm good at modeling, so I can only make the tracks and the ships by the moment..:D
Any help would be apreciated!

[WolfKill01]

Not to pop your creative bubble or anything. But teams like feisar and auricom weren't allowed to compete in the FX150. It was an amateur league. Read the heritage/story sections here:

http://www.wipeoutpure.com/

But you can still use the models you have now. You just need to come up with a new cast of teams in order to comply with wipeout's "story", so to speak. :)

[Xpand]

Yeah, I know, that Feisar is a test model from Wipeout 3 I made to improve modeling skills.
But there could be some teams racing with replicas of older ship models, right?

[WolfKill01]

I think that was pre-fx150. But it's not like there's a list of rules or anything XD. Go for it. And great work :+

[Xpand]

Well, I'm just saying, because on drag racing there are those teams that have their own car and others that build replicas of older cars...
Thanks!

[Connavar]

Well, I know nothing about programming, but I'm good at modeling, so I can only make the tracks and the ships by the moment..:D
Any help would be apreciated!
More or less the contrary here!!
I'm a beginner at modelling, but good at 3D/AI/games programming :)

[Rotational_aspect]

Although I'm working on something different I couldnt resist sketching a Wipeout like ship. I think it looks like a pumped up Icarus, maybe?

[Xpand]

Wow, it does look like an Icarus, if the leading edge extension started nearer to the wingtip it would be just like one.


More or less the contrary here!!
I'm a beginner at modelling, but good at 3D/AI/games programming :)

Awesome! Do you want to help us?

Edit:
Here's some pics of the Atlantica track in development:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2933/charon.jpg
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3051/gemini.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3231/hydrus.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1478/neptunesplit.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/797/phoenixq.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3816/texturebug.jpg

[Sengoku]

If anyone makes a new game, please put Endurance mode on it haha :D

[Task]

...XNA game studio that is free and you can find it here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/aa937791.aspx
...The only bad thing is that you have to have experience with Visual C#
Fascinating. I happen to be primarily a C# developer. I'll have to have a look at this XNA studio. Maybe once I pick up an XBox somewhere. Thanks for the info!

[Xpand]

Would you like to give us a hand? I would like to see a basic game with no complex physics and only one ship and one track at first and then something more complex, with time...

On other news:

http://www.4shared.com/file/m9lNmul-/Harimau_test_game.html

This is an example of a blender game...
I made this using the Pulse's Harimau ship...
But you'll notice some problems, for example: the HUGE amount of dlls needed to operate a 4 MB game...

The keys are:

S: Accelerator
Q: Left airbrake
E: Right airbrake
Left arrow: turn left
Right arrow: turn right

[Connavar]

Xpand: sure, I'm already making the game now ...
I'll show you soon with a basic ship and track.

Note: C++ and OpenGL here, without any Microsoft thing.
Why? Because that way it's completely multiplatform.


If anyone makes a new game, please put Endurance mode on it haha :D

Sengoku: How about this: you start with one track, at the end of the track, it's
already changed /morphed to the 2nd track, and so on.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Anyone doing the 2D(Plan) track designs?
Xpand,I tried your test game. The game was quite drifty,one turn and you slide unless that is intentional.Another issue: the airbrakes.It feels like as though you could replace the left and right for the airbrakes as they turn a LOT

[Xpand]

Xpand: sure, I'm already making the game now ...
I'll show you soon with a basic ship and track.

Note: C++ and OpenGL here, without any Microsoft thing.
Why? Because that way it's completely multiplatform.



Sengoku: How about this: you start with one track, at the end of the track, it's
already changed /morphed to the 2nd track, and so on.

Wow, thanks!
Well, as long as we can do this open source, so players can add their own ships. I think it's easier that way...
There's also the matter of what type of model file extension to use... X files are nice, but there are some problems related to animations...
This page talks about the Quake II's MD2 file format for C++:
http://tfc.duke.free.fr/old/models/md2.htm
There's also the MD3 files....
http://www.icculus.org/homepages/phaethon/q3a/formats/md3format.html



Anyone doing the 2D(Plan) track designs?
Xpand,I tried your test game. The game was quite drifty,one turn and you slide unless that is intentional.Another issue: the airbrakes.It feels like as though you could replace the left and right for the airbrakes as they turn a LOT

I'm making one of the tracks.
I have images of a track shown on one of my posts on this topic.
About the airbrakes, that game is just an example... The real one would be like Connavar is saying...


We still need graphics designers...

[Connavar]

Well don't thank me, I started this project without you!

Open source is about the game code, and I don't think it helps in any way.
The way I code it is very open anyway, because it's based on plugins,
and open format files, so people could rewrite some of the plugins, example
to have a better 3D renderer, or better AI, and add ships/weap/tracks easily.

Right now I'm focused on:
- collisions, and realistic reactions, in WO it's laughable
- physics, including destructible environment
- great gameplay
- great AI: learns the tracks and learns from its mistakes and from the other
players ... will learn shortcuts etc, but will also make mistakes and have a
realistic reaction time, basically will act like a human player.
- automatic tracks generator

I got experience in each of those elements, so the result should be nice!!

Not concerned with:
- graphics: even without textures, it will look good enough as long as you
have a GOOD PC, like Zone mode in WO. To me, gameplay is the top priority.
- audio: FMOD, someone send wav samples thanks!
- network: once the game is running, I'll think about it!

Oh by the way, this game is not a wipeout game, more like an anti-grav
racing simulator! So many things could be added later such as having
characters in the game (real spectators) ... damn!

MD2 and MD3 are good files for characters, here I prefer separate 3d models
for each part of the vehicle, why? That way I can better define physics,
animations of those parts, and they could go off etc, will be fun!

I like the Milkshape format file, very easy to use!
And it's also a great converter.

[Mu5]

This sounds great mate :D +

Have you got any info/screenshots online so I can have a look at your work? :) You should get a blog up and running and keep up posted on developments :)

[Sausehuhn]

We still need graphics designers...

Like moddeling 3D objects or like doing concept art?

How detailed is the game going to be? More like WO2097, Pulse or Fusion? Or even more detailed than PS2 niveau? And yes, I know PS2 graphics are dated –*but still: For a selfmade game one has to spend much, much time to reach the level of detail WOFusion features.

I think it's very important to know the limitations of the game when making concept art. If I had the choice, I would also go for high resolution bitmaps rather than more polygons, if there's such a choince to make.

In other words: If there's the need for concept art (rough and/or detailed) I would be happy to help if I find the time :)

[Xpand]

Yes, we do need concept art... I make my tracks and ships with resonable polys for good gameplay and then add bitmapped details... Also bump maps... But the thing is that we don't have a definitive basic platform to start adding details...

Oh and in an half hour I reproduced W3O's Porto Kora track from the plans from the forum, which is a great improvement since Atlantica is much simpler and took me twice the time to get to the same state...
Here's a pic:
1889

[omega329]

I'm all in for ship modeling, it would be easier if I had top/side/front views of ships though.
What sort of level of detail we looking at?

I'll be away for the next week, but should be able to help seriously after that :)

[Xpand]

Well, I'm looking at something with a bit lower quality as Wipeout HD... Kinda like my Piranha model on my gallery...
I was aiming at ships that looked like the ones from the first wipeout games, like reconstructed replicas of the ships... I'm making a Feisar based on the F3600 series and I'll show it here to state my point...
And thanks!

Here's the Feisar model still in development:

1895
1896

I would also like the models to have some sort of cockpit... Not something to complicated, something like the WO3's cockpit...

[Sausehuhn]

Oooh that's awesome. Some old-school flare there. So that's going to be a more traditional game then (design wise)? I like :)

Did you think about that one? :)

[Xpand]

That's yours? Or is it the model from the XL intro video? It's awesome! But I think it has to many polys...

[Sausehuhn]

It's from the intro.
If you're going for something similar to WOHD (or lower), I could imagine that the model is possible. Maybe with less details. It's the shape and the thrusters that give it the character :)

[Xpand]

Well, not exactly like wipeout HD, but close... More like Pure, but with better ships (detailwise).
Anyways, here are the Feisar's renders:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1906/feisarfront.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6659/feisarftbottom.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2323/feisarrear.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3417/feisarrearspeed.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8214/feisarside.jpg
Tell me what you think!

[Rotational_aspect]

Not bad at all- the ship has a good colour scheme (the texture has no warping or stretching I can see) and the shape is getting there (the intake is really good).

Crits:

Nasty LCD font (the number eight)- get rid of it and research The Designers Republic and how they did things.

The pipe work I imagine could be done more efficently via a .tga texture with an alpha channel (to save polys in game).

Try to make the ship less 'boxy' (i.e. it looks like most angles are divisible by 45 degrees)- loosen it up!

Wireframes! (So we can see the meshflow and poly distribution)

Keep going!!!

[WolfKill01]

Looks awesome, xpand!! :+ I really like where the design is headed.

[Xpand]

Not bad at all- the ship has a good colour scheme (the texture has no warping or stretching I can see) and the shape is getting there (the intake is really good).

Crits:

Nasty LCD font (the number eight)- get rid of it and research The Designers Republic and how they did things.

The pipe work I imagine could be done more efficently via a .tga texture with an alpha channel (to save polys in game).

Try to make the ship less 'boxy' (i.e. it looks like most angles are divisible by 45 degrees)- loosen it up!

Wireframes! (So we can see the meshflow and poly distribution)

Keep going!!!

Thanks!
Yeah, I put the LCD "8" because I couldn't find how they did it... I think it's very similar, but without those white cuts...
About the pipes: This ship hasn't got half the polys of the average on Wipeout HD... But I guess I could make tubing coming out of the fuselage that way.
I have to add some more polys on the joints so it seems smoother...

I'll post wireframe tomorrow. I made this ship from a series of extrusions... I started it from a single box...

[Rotational_aspect]

If you want to pig out on crazy fonts try here:

http://www.searchfreefonts.com/categories/

Might be useful when all those neon signs need doing.....

[Darkdrium777]

I don't want to put down your enthusiasm Xpand, and honestly that Feisar recreation looks really good, but if you are aiming for a PurE quality models you're gonna have a hard time pumping details in the models if you use basic shapes like PS1 game models (Triangles all the way.) I fear the detail you will add to the ship will feel tacked on and not natural looking at all. Of course, there is the possibility that you can pull it off but consider that it's gonna be extra challenging if you choose to go through with it.

[Rotational_aspect]

Instead of going for details, perhaps you should try to develop the ships silhouette a bit more and break up the primary shape you have based your ship on.

Here is an example of using a volume to its potential- the poly count is low but you get a well defined shape.

[Xpand]

Yeah, but that poly count would suit a PSP system... Even Wipeout Pulse's ships have more polys than that...

Here's some wireframe pics of the ship:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/749/feisarpoly.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7382/feisarpolyft.jpg

Yeah, this ship has some unnecessary details, but an optimize modifier can work just fine removing some polys...

Here's a ship I made only for gaming:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/493/prot.jpg

Oh and thanks for the fonts!

[Rotational_aspect]

Just had a look at your wireframes-

1: While it is true Max (not sure so much with GMax) you have modifiers to reduce the poly count, it is always better to be able to do mesh reduction yourself as you have total control- weld is your best mate!

I assume those pics are WIP as you still have a line where the model has been cloned and mirrored, and you could simplify the sides of the Feisar if you do not intend to use those polys- however I think you should try to break up the solid triangle shape a little. Plus try a 4 or 5 sided cylinder for the pipes- will look the same but has less overhead.

2: I cant really tell but I dont think (on the underside) the pipes or the long, thin strakes on the wings are attached to anything. Most professional meshes try to have everything connected so the mesh is 'closed'- this helps game engines as otherwise it causes problems with shadows and other artifacts.

The prototype is an interesting shape, sort of AG meets Piranha. Keep at it!

BTW, is Blender any good for games development?

[Xpand]

1. Yeah, I guess I could make a simpler model...

2. The pipes aren't attached but the poly's that are inside the main body were cut and deleted... There are no problems with shading with that, I exported the model to FSX which has model shadows and there was no strange shading...

I based my prototype more on the Turboweevel, but looking at it again does resemble the AG-Systems...

Blender is a good exporter. It also has it's own game engine (which is much simpler than C coding because all events are linked through wires like: keyboard (key X) ----- and ------ action.)
But a good game quality is hard to achieve since the material render doesn't work the same way as the image render on normal modeling.... You can map something correctly on the 3D views but when you start the game engine the map gets distorted... At least that's what has been happening to me...

I'm also learning C++ programming to use OpenGL and create the game engine...
I started yesterday and I currently know how to make simple logical operators and conditions....

Ok, here's the Feisar plans for this game (The previous one was a test):
1902
It's about 8 meters long and 5 meters wide with a height of about 3 meters.

[Mu5]

feisar looks great m8 :) :+

[Xpand]

Thanks! Here's the untextured 3D model:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1535/feisar3dbottom.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3185/feisar3dft.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7692/feisar3drear.jpg

[Rotational_aspect]

That looks really good, much better than your first model. My only suggestion would be (if GMax has it- it should do) is to use smoothing groups to the canopy and other areas to make hard egdes- the shading is making the model look a bit 'puffy'.

Keep going!

[Xpand]

Thanks! Gmax has smoothing groups. But usually I detach the canopy's glass and that solves the problem..

[MetaKraken]

I'm thinking about Wipeout HD Remix, since I like teams Tigron and Van-Uber (if Studio Liverpool hadn't left it out) and they should add more tracks from Wipeout Pure and Pulse turned HD, such as De Konstruct, Vertica, Outpost 7, Sincuit, Blue Ridge, Fort Gale, Basilico, Edgewinter, Gemini Dam, etc. all turned to HD.

[Xpand]

MetaKraken that's work for sony's developers... We're making a tribute game of Wipeout by making a game based on the amateur league part of Wipeout with various classes corresponding to F3600 ships; XL ships; F7200 ships and homemade ships made by small teams (Wipeoutzone users)...

But before we go nuts we have to have a base platform game to add details and ships...

[MetaKraken]

Ah. Sorry, my bad. Well, it's because I have returned to the forums and have nearly forgotten about Wipeout :(.

[Sausehuhn]

Only more input (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7546) for tracks :)

[Mu5]

Brilliant! Thanks for posting that link!! :D :+

[Xpand]

Wow! That's awesome! The only problem is that I don't have PS2's pulse....

[mikrucio]

Sorry guys but All wipeout trademarks belong to SL/Psygnosis.
While you can keep developing and coming up with ideas.
in the end its not going to get anywhere because its not legal.

[Xpand]

Bah, we'll change the name of everything...

[Rotational_aspect]

OutWipe by Studio Everton?;)

[Sausehuhn]

Isn't it fan art anyway?

[Xpand]

I agree.. It's a tribute, do you think they will care about copyright on a tribute game?

[Rotational_aspect]

I think it depends a lot on the copyright holders- some fan games have been tolerated (mainly by game developers) but I've seen others given the cease and desist by large IP holders like EA or Sony (perhaps because fan games are just as good in some cases as the real thing!!)

You could write to them and asked for permission but this may bring you to their attention, so it is a bit of a gamble.

And in any case, diehard players know what is all about, even if you do pilot a Fasar or AK Systems ship :D

[Xpand]

Let me set this straight: This isn't going to be better or ever reach the same level as, for example, Fusion or Pure... At least that's what I think... I'm not aiming at something very complex... Because we're missing important parts of the development (we only have some concept ships and some track drawings yet...) I can't possibly imagine how this will be limited in anyways... 8)

[nexekho]

I'm working independantly on my own Wipeout/F-Zero clone engine.

http://i34.tinypic.com/55p5ld.png

Written using C/GL so it should be fairly portable. Instead of using meshes made in Max, etc. it uses bezier patches to define the track meaning you can rough out the drivable parts quickly.

[Xpand]

Dude, you better link that image...
Also: I'm trying to display stuff with OpenGL in C++, but with no luck... All I can do is make an empty window... As soon as I start to add the rest of the code to display lines and triangles C++ detects lots of errors...

[nexekho]

Oh, I'm sorry, that was my first post, didn't realise it was the custom around these parts. I'm just about to go on holiday but the next thing I do will be textures, then I'll get started on the custom physics engine...

C++? Nah, I don't like OOP.

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand, why did you stop using Blender? I've started using it and (also researching on the BlenderArtists forum) found it to be very capable indeed- plus it uses Python which is a lot easier to learn than C (esp for code retards like me!).

By the way, hows the modeling going? Need pretty pictures!!

[Xpand]

Well.. I guess I could use blender... But my modeling skills on it are close to zero compared to gmax and 3dsmax... When I try to import a model into blender it loses all smothing and texture information and I have to do that all over again... The two most problematic things I have in blender...

[Rotational_aspect]

What format are you exporting from Max? These links may help->

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=184863

and

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.5/Py/Scripts/File_I-O/3DS_MAX_Scene_Interchange

[Xpand]

I only have gmax in my computer... 3dsmax is my school's software... and gmax is basically a downgraded 3dsmax 5... it can only export as X files and as P3D files...

Here's an Assegai styled ship:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/729/assegaitypefx200.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5933/assegaitypefx200rear.jpg

[Rotational_aspect]

Doh:blarg- I forgot you have GMax-try these instead:

http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/gmax/exporting-meshes-as-obj-models.php

http://www.katsbits.com/tools/

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?96043-ms3d-Import-Export-for-3ds-Max-and-GMax-version-1.1

You could use your school Max to convert the files too, or use the Tempest game pack to convert to MD2 (from Gmax).

Cool model by the way!

[Xpand]

Thanks! I'll try...

[nexekho]

Posting the progress since Saturday evening:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2d6p2x1.png

Textured, better lit, testing the curves. The yellow line is testing the system for making vehicles track the road.

[Xpand]

Dang, that's some nice graphics! :g
Just a question: How do you map the track? I mean, I tried forever to make a mosaic map along my tracks but I have to manually adjust every section of every turn and it's very tiring! I know there's a faster way to do that, but I don't know what...

[nexekho]

Because my game engine is building the polygons from a few set points, I can measure the length of the sides of the track and use it to UV map it nicely... I'm currently working on the basic physics, trying to capture the Wipeout drift and sway. I specifically avoided having to model the track because of UV mapping issues.

And thanks. :D

About the copyright issue: don't call it Wipeout, and don't include any media either ripped from or imitating their assets. Then they don't really have a foot to stand on legally as it's just a futuristic racing game. The vehicles and tracks that imitate Wipeout can be released separately as addons.

Just had a thought: I could use this to make a free roam city with wipeout physics... wow, that'd be awesome.

[nexekho]

http://i38.tinypic.com/2je6x5l.png

Today I wrote a mesh loader and some of the physics. The car IS driveable but it needs a lot of tweaking and adjustments. The meshes are specified in text files as are the tunings for the physics such as the roll correction force and damping. I have a half-implemented system down for parts that move, rotate and rescale according to statistics of the car, too, so little vectoring thrusters that only pop up when the car is correcting roll are very possible as are moving flaps and sliding engine covers.

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand, if you are struggling with mapping a track check this tutorial for Blender- the principles may also hold true for Gmax:

http://home.mnet-online.de/sk9/tutorial_creating_road_blender.pdf

Also, good stuff nexekho! Looks like its coming on well.

[nexekho]

Why thank you, Rotational Aspect.

Woke up this morning feeling more modelly than programmy so made this:
http://nexekho.deviantart.com/art/F-Zero-Ish-177519551

[Rotational_aspect]

Cool, it is very F-Zero like- I half expected Samurai Goroh to jump out! BTW what program did you use to model that?

Now I just wish I had more time to do some work on my project.....

[Xpand]

Wow, cool! That's very nice!

And thanks! I'm also having trouble maintaining the ship aligned to the track... For example, when you go on a climb the ship maintains it's pitch and the nose drives into the track while you're climbing... There's a script to overcome that, but I can't seem to get it to work...

[nexekho]

BTW what program did you use to model that?
Blender 2.5.3.

My track system probably works differently. If you can get the surface normal of the road, you should be able to use it to tilt the craft to match, but it can also incur accidental yaw. (I've tried this before with a previous Sonic based project) Under my engine, I produce a forward vector, right vector and up vector for the road under each vehicle each frame and use the inverse matrix from the last frame to keep the vehicle's rotation globally correct whilst the right and forward vectors' Y components are used to add stabilising rotational inertia to straighten the car up. It's still a bit springy (need better damping, just multiplying by 0.99 at the moment) but it seems to work.

Here's a video of the pitching inertia being tested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_kaULpni68&feature=youtube_gdata

No lateral intertia, just rotary. I stop occasionally to make it easier to observe.

[zero3growlithe]

Just interested in 3d modeling;

My Quirex-RD Model:

Stand by animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssAmL56so3w

Ship engine runing animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyv2jv63NtU
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And track (this one is first i made):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMR7OIY9CDA

I'm working on it now:
http://zero3growlithe.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/coridon-6/

[nexekho]

There's some decent stuff there. If you can export the vehicle to a .obj you might one day see it running around a track in realtime.

[Rotational_aspect]

This may help you Xpand-

http://download.blender.org/documentation/NaN_docs/BlenderGameReference/dynmaterials.html

zero3growlithe: Nice- keep at it!

[Xpand]

Thanks! But I got it... I used a python script... The only thing I have to correct is a slight sliding of the ship when the track tilts sideways.

[Rotational_aspect]

Being cheeky now, but could you post the blend file that deals with movement? I'd be interested in to it works with Python (i'm currently learning to program with it).

[Xpand]

Here's a file with the code.
For the codes to work on blender you have to past them on the text editor and edit such things as "properties" and stuff..

[Rotational_aspect]

Thanks for that! :D

[nexekho]

I just spent an hour chasing an optical illusion. I thought my craft weren't progressing around certain curves at a constant speed but it turns out that a combination of floating them a constant speed above the track and tilting them back to pitch up was producing the illusion that they were slowing down inside the corners.

[zero3growlithe]

Nexekho:

Here is the Quirex-RD.obj (Saved as NURBS & for windows - writing just in case):)

http://rapidshare.com/files/416307236/Quirex-RD.rar

[nexekho]

I can't get any of my software (Blender, NifSkope, Lithunwrap, my own mesh converter OBJ2MSE) to read it. Looking through it, there aren't any normal triangles, just bsplines, which are currently unsupported by most graphics cards and as such most programs don't even try and parse them. Rhinoceros looks like an interesting package nontheless.

(image is 5kb, way within rules)
http://www.sophie3d.com/website/data/en/images/exportToObjectFormat.png

Try exporting a polygon mesh, this should convert the curves to approximations made from triangles which are GPU-renderable. The newlines thing is because .obj is a text based format and different OSes interpret different things as newlines. DOS/Windows expect a carriage return and a line feed (harking back to the days before screens) whilst Unix likes a line feed only and the Mac option refers to pre-OS X Macs which used a carriage return only. OS X is Unix-based and uses a line feed.

Sorry.

[zero3growlithe]

(Don't hiding... i'm green in what you wrote to me:))

http://rapidshare.com/files/416318397/Quirex-RD.rar

Exported to (how i understood)....

[nexekho]

No, I'm not using Linux, but whoever made that screenshot (I don't have the software) wants Linux newlines. Most programs can handle any kind now anyway.

That works great, when I upload my next video I'll use that model, thanks.

[Darkdrium777]

Wait.

Is this three (four?) people making individual games?

I am confused.

[Rotational_aspect]

Pretty much Darkdrium777, which I think is a good thing as a) team co-ordination is difficult over the internet b) projects take time some of us really dont have, so we can work and learn at our own pace. Lastly, our 'vision' of what we want is probrably different too.

And eventually you may have four games to play, rather than one8)

[nexekho]

Yeah, but we all know mine's best just on principle. http://www.capripower.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/1132_childish_teasing_smiley_sticking_out_tongue.g if

Did a bit of UI design today. (image is 10k, don't worry)
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ef1bba.png

Here's a preview of how it might look:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2a4sk1j.png

[nexekho]

I hate to double post, but I want Zero3Growlithe to see his 17000 polygon model bouncing around my intentionally rough track. It's mostly working now, just got some organisational problems to solve in the physics (some things happening in the wrong order, etc.) which cause a slight blip every time the car runs over a track border. But other than that you can see it's handling pitching, rolling, flight, hovering and drifting quite well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZgDJmxOxA&feature=youtube_gdata

[zero3growlithe]

Look's great. I can't wait for the finishing project:D

[Rotational_aspect]

Cool! 8)

Now are you going to have WO numbers of enemies or do FZero numbers? 50 opponents is always mad (got to love those FZero X moments)

[nexekho]

I think it'd be dependant on the track; some really wide tracks more like F-Zero would be capable of supporting more vehicles (and to be honest there's no in-engine limit as it is; just what you can fit in memory) and the smaller Wipeout-like tracks would probably be limited to similar numbers such as 6-12. It's all down to the people who make the tracks, what they think works best.

[Xpand]

Wow, nice! Is that a bump map that I see!? :g

[nexekho]

No bump maps yet. I do have bits of pipeline for writing a deferred renderer. The plan is that at the end I'm going to build in cone step mapping for the track and global normal/specular/glow maps as well as a crude HDR.

Track editing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDFKbwsBgLg&feature=youtube_gdata

[Rotational_aspect]

nexekho: Looks really good! All you need now is a quake disruptor to pull those verticies some more.......:twisted

Xpand: How are you getting on- sorted out your GL problems?

btw found this old youtube vid of an FZERO/ WO style racer in Blender:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9si6334twqo

[Xpand]

I've managed to make some objects rotate on the screen... Now I'm trying to make them respond to a key press...

I'm having a little problem with lighting:

GLfloat specular[] = (0.9f, 0.9f, 0.9f, 1.0f);
glLightfv(GL_LIGHT0, GL_SPECULAR, specular);

I gives me an error telling that couldn't determine the size of "specular"...
Can anybody help me on this?

Also that game looks awesome! I can't seem to find a way to create AI players...

[nexekho]

The problem is that you're trying to define an array using () brackets, when you need to use {} brackets to define the default elements.

[Xpand]

Ah! Thanks! :g

[nexekho]

Any problems you have, XPand, just post 'em here. I have ~3 years C experience and ~2 years GL experience. How are you planning on getting ship models into the game?

Right now I'm trying to make it more Wipeout-y, adding a bit of drifty lag to the controls and airbraking.

[Xpand]

Thanks!
I'm trying to convert X to obj or mdl files and put them on OpenGL.

I'm already capable of doing this:
1925

It's very simple but made me quite happy when it worked! :g
Before this I could only make DOS programs with C and C++.
Now I'm trying to get some movement out of key pressing! :g

[nexekho]

I have a custom mesh format I made for a previous project. It's basically a binary version of .obj that loads faster and can store lighting data used by normal maps that would otherwise need to be generated on load. It kicks out a display list of the mesh, but being based on .obj it can't have moving or animated parts within the mesh. I'd be willing to send you the mesh converter and the loader function over PM.

Moving parts and airbraking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJay3NisYL4

[Xpand]

Sure! Thanks! Any help is apreciated!
Also: How did you make the parts move? Do you make the whole model and export the moving parts as separate objects?

[nexekho]

Yeah, they're separate meshes grouped under the same object. So the object's position and rotation serve as a base and then they can be moved/rotated/scaled according to the stats of the car. This is done in a text file like so:


Mesh
Solid
Data/Racers/Pteromi/Rudder.mse
Data/Racers/Pteromi/Diffuse.dds
Translate
Constant
0.0
-0.29
-0.44
Rotate
Turn
0.0
1.0
0.0
-0.15

You can stack practically infinite rotations, translations and scales but each one requires the building and multiplication of a matrix which can cause slowdown.

[Xpand]

Are you going to enable crash damage on the ships? A simple way is making damage level models, for example, when the damage is at 75 percent the game engine displays a model slightly damaged instead of the prestine start model.

[nexekho]

Are you going to enable crash damage on the ships?

At the moment, damage is available as a variable like turn, thrust, etc. but cannot be used as an on/off switch to switch damaged components in. This is something I shall consider.

[nexekho]

http://i55.tinypic.com/29idf7.png

16-WAY SPLIT SCREEN STABILITY STRESS TEST!

Ooooh-right!

Edit: 240-way is really slow but works

[Xpand]

Awesome! And it still runs at 49FPS! Can't imagine a normal window!

[jesse9705]

ill volunteer to help with making the track designs if needed and if needed ill make some of the crafts and the bonus is i wanna help so ill do my best so if you need help ask me how i can help and i shall if i can

[Xpand]

Ok, nice! Show us what you've got! Drawings, 3D models, the works! :g

[zero3growlithe]

I can provide new ships from Wipeout HD if all ideas to make a new one fail.
(i'll try to make as best quality as i can:) [with moving air breaks]).

For now my idea (star wars:) :
https://zero3growlithe.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/needle-wipeout-custom-ship/

By the way, my finished track (Coridon 6):
http://zero3growlithe.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/coridon-6/
Maybe a little bug repairs is needed...

(i need a little more powerfull CPU to make an animation, becouse at this time 1 render takes about 2 hours to complete :brickwall )...

Maybe i'll connect PS3 to my PC :blarg (if only it would be possible)

[Xpand]

Wow, me liky!!
Just make sure it isn't too CPU heavy...

[zero3growlithe]

It is heavy:| (wondering if ps3 can handle it:g)

Kidding, if it was used in the game, then it had to be converted to proper format and reedited to correct textures... or something like that:), then it won't take much CPU (i think)

[Darkdrium777]

Why the pictures have gray lines all over them? :|

[SaturnReturn]

It's to do with it being the evaluation version of the software:

Evaluation version
Try before you buy. This is a fully functional version with limited material, light fixture, and plant libraries. The evaluation version also draws thin black lines across the final rendered image.
http://www.flamingo3d.com/download.htm

[jesse9705]

Here is one of my tracks-
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs345.ash2/62577_114606725262932_100001408159731_117289_81470 33_n.jpg

Here is one of my freshly done ships which was designed by me and thought of by my sister so its teamwork-
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs639.snc4/59941_115098068547131_100001408159731_119496_22400 73_n.jpg

Here is a track i made i called it tiran turns:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=224

here is a bomb i made from other wipeout images and put them together:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=224&pictureid=2566

Here is an idea for the title screen
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=224&pictureid=2567

And if possible i was thinking to enable a shop like where you spend money from winning races and you can customise your craft to make it faster or better shields or better handeling or just upgrades

you can name them if you want as it is not copyrighted its for free use as long as its permitted by me :g and hopfully it will be easy to program in as im mainly an imager :nod

i have attached a logo for the game to

[zero3growlithe]

Very good ship you made Jessie9705 :) Looks similar to "Wipeout Pulse Triakis"

[Xpand]

Very good ship you made Jessie9705 :) Looks similar to "Wipeout Pulse Triakis"

It's an Auricom... Nice track by the way!

[jesse9705]

thankyou for the complement about my work :D

check out my new tracks and images ive put in my first post here with images

[zero3growlithe]

My ship is progressing (triakis) :nod. Wanted to do PS3 version of it but i dont know where to begin (so much details :dizzy) so my project would be very different (it doesn't mean that the graphic will be much worse). Craft can get its own name then:)

/\
||
i think i have chosen the hardest one to make:blarg

This is how the work is going:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=221&pictureid=2574
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=221&pictureid=2573
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=221&pictureid=2572

[Rotational_aspect]

Since so many things are going on I might as well show what I got up to earlier- Photoshop filters are dangerously fun...........

Like I said in my earlier posts, my futuristic racer is going to be very different indeed, in fact it might go in a totally new direction depending on my mood. Luckily Blender will be a good choice for rapid prototyping once all the art is finalised (if ever!)

To give you an idea of what is motivating me, my game will eventually be a stylistic mix of Wipeout meeting British Rail with hints of Motorstorm......*

*Now since I have had a cold I may be slightly high on Lemsip, so the above may be subject to change:dizzy

[zero3growlithe]

There was an idea for "menu" above, so i adding my to:

http://zero3growlithe.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/wipeout-zone-menu/
Don't know which one is better :dizzy

("Wipeout Zone") <- This can be the name of the new Wipeout:)

EDIT: Read all posts and relized that it have to be less detailed game but i will continue my work becouse i like modeling:) (16 years old human being bored during weekend must to do something... by the way, they can be used in the future:))

[jesse9705]

i have made a new craft design for our game its a zone craft for zone mode or for people who have unlocked it or whatever

i have the livery skin made and the info sheet as well enjoy

[Mu5]

Nice work jesse :+

"Wipeout meets British Rail meets Motorstorm " LOL :D

Heres a section of track I built last year for a test track

[icarasDragon]

I thought I might contribute a menu concept

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD0IIY2O3oc

Audio84 made this, so ask him if you want to use it ;)

(On a side note, replace the Portal soundtrack with something that rushes you a bit :P )

[Mu5]

Here is what I would like to get playable - low poly count should help the speed. Would love to create it in a game engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_WhyAHq8M

[jesse9705]

Maybye we should have a folder in the game setup so we can download extra crafts and circuts and put them in it so we can use them so in other words we can have a game that supports downloadable content

and also nice work zero3growlithe and Mu5 its very good :D

[icarasDragon]

Hi

For my 2nd 3D model in my life, after a test model I've at least got a untextured Goteki 45, Assegai and a upcoming Piranha3 in Wings-3D!

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/DialgiX/3DModeling#

I will need textures, if someone wants to donate this could be a possible addition to WipEout PC couldn't it? :P

(Source File attached, if you need to make the necessary submodels and other things to get it in-game, so be it :twisted )
(EDIT: I just remembered, the Material-Submodel Assingment only works when rendering models, not when putting them in-game. That requires UV-Mapping, Which I simply suck at full stop., so when I get or make textures, a BIG thanks in advance to anyone who wants the challenge!)
THESE MODELS ARE ONLY DRAFT OUTLINES, I WOULD NEED SOMEONE TO FIX VERTICE ERRORS, UGLY OR ROUGH EDGES, UV MAPPING, SUBMODELS ETC TO BE A CANDIDATE FOR THE GAME (Thanks in advance)
To open this file you'll need to use Wings 3D, but it can export other formats so you can use another editor's interface to change and refine the ship

[Darkdrium777]

I thought I might contribute a menu conceptThat actually reminds me a lot of a design in the PS2 OS Menu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imu65I1U_qE).

[zero3growlithe]

DialgiX i've checked those ships:)

Goteki 45 is alright, In Assegai i had to remodel engine a little (there was a little glitch and 2 holes)
http://picasaweb.google.pl/106083964399065727105/Temp?authkey=Gv1sRgCMSj9eX_8JPkSw#

[icarasDragon]

@Zero3growlithe
Thanks for fixing those holes, I couldn't fix them because Wings 3D considers them neighbor faces, so the bridge command didn't work
I award you :beer

[zero3growlithe]

I'll export it to .wings (assegai only). About that mapping... accepting challenge:)
http://rapidshare.com/files/421390153/Assegai.wings.html

[Xpand]

Those look awesome!
The only thing I have to complain is the excess smoothing on the Goteki...
I haven't had any time left to improve my programming skills because of school...

[zero3growlithe]

I know that problem :| For now 1st year of high school so don't have much learning:P so work is going forward -> -> ->

[icarasDragon]

Actually to note, check my profile, i'm only just coming out of Primary/Elementary school... and doing I'm pretty well with my PC and my 3D modelling skills don't you think? :mr-t
On that notice i'll do the Piranha from Wip3out tomorrow after school, when I have Nexuiz installed, I'm no good with rounded edges, so the Wip3out Piranha will have to do ;)

[zero3growlithe]

Checked it before you posted response:) If only i could then i would began modeling in 3D earlier :nod

[Xpand]

I started modeling by accident when I was 12 too! I found gmax in an old CD...
Even so I preparing myself for a physics course in the University of Aveiro... I'm currently in my last year of school...

[Szei]

I'm glad this is still being worked on. I don't want to see WipEout die. You have no idea how sad I was when I heard Studio Liverpool was done =(

I don't have a PS3 either so the last game I played was Pulse. Actually, Pulse was the reason I bought my PSP in the first place and is the only PSP game I have bought though it's been more than 2 years now. I've been hoping to get a PS3 for a while now exclusively for WipEout HD. Don't have plans to get any other games >.< Though I'll probably just get it on my uncle's PS3 now that I have moved close to him (for University).

Anyway, thanks for your work. Keep it up!

[nexekho]

I'm still working on my game (which has and always has had the previously mentioned downloadable content) but as I'm now at Uni the pace is going to slow right down.

[Mu5]

Is there anyone working on a XNA game? :)

Ive just started playing with the .x format, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience converting sketchup models/textures to this format? cheers

[nexekho]

What format can sketchup/etc export? I probably have something that can load/save the files.

[Mu5]

you need a plugin to export to XNA .x format ...

http://jamesewelch.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/how-to-load-a-google-sketchup-model-into-a-xna-game/

[icarasDragon]

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=181999&postcount=133
Piranha Is up!
gee, I take a break for a few days

[zero3growlithe]

My "Shark" is already completed. There is only materials left to assign:hyper

http://picasaweb.google.pl/106083964399065727105/Shark#

(about that .x format, Rhinoceros 4.0 can export to this format:) )

(DialgiX, Piranha have some glithes, in free time i'll try to fix them;) )

[nexekho]

Rhinoceros is NOT a good modeller for making game meshes in. The polycount of that Qirex was way above what it should have been. Your modelling skills are competent but if you ever want to get into games dev, you need to learn how to use software packages capable of making optimised models rather than blowing ~15K on a model with 90% of the polygons needlessly subdividing parts of the mesh. I'm not coming down on your modelling skills, but Rhinoceros is not a good place to learn how to model efficently.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2yyzjgx.png
(image is 30k, within the rules)

That new model looks incredible and really well detailed but no matter what you do it's going to come out the other end with 45Kpolys and will drag any game engine to its knees, especially when combined with a track and other racers. My Pteromi model is only 2.2K including all the moving parts and effects meshes. Look up subdivision low-poly modelling and get a more suitable modeller such as 3DS Max, Maya or Blender if you don't feel like spending anything.

[Xpand]

So many unnecessary polys! You could just make a boolean cut on a clear surface...

[nexekho]

The problem is, Xpand, is that it's a spline based modeller; you make shapes by combining curves. This means that the only way it can build a polygon mesh is to run down the curves, dropping points at intervals which leads to massively high polygon meshes for no benefit.

[zero3growlithe]

Ok:) I'll begin to learn 3DS Max after finishing this ship :cowboy

[nexekho]

You just made the right choice. :rock

Haha, I haven't seen that emote since the days of effiles

[icarasDragon]

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7723
I made a thread for my models, I just can't think which team to do next :hyper

[jesse9705]

How about we focus on new teams as well as old teams and when are we goingto start devolping of this game as me already itchy for it and im already ready to make logogs

[Mu5]

@nex : great point about low poly modelling :+

[zero3growlithe]

3Ds Max is very advanced application i see, so i must begin early to learn it :bomb

By the way, i forgot about this option in Rhinoceros (poligon mesh options):paperbag
http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw&pli=1#5523540763460814594

[Xpand]

Well, gmax is a "purposely built for games" 3DS Max 5. The only disadvantage is that you have a very narrow choice of export formats...

[kei]

Gmax is terribly outdated .. go with Softimage Mod Tool (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?id=13571257&siteID=123112) instead. It's the free ( for non-commercial use ), but fully featured version of Softimage 7.5 used for games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy 13, Virtua Fighter 5, Half-Life 2, F-Zero GX etc. And some of the Wipeout games of course ;)

[zero3growlithe]

I'll check it out :g

[zero3growlithe]

Finally found some time to finish this ship:)
http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/SharkDone#

[icarasDragon]

Nice! is it meant to be a Triakis?
also, what's with the lines in the images, it makes the textures confusing :|

[zero3growlithe]

Yes, it is Triakis (i've named him "shark":twisted)

About those lines, check the left lower corner on the image, it says "Flamingo Evaluation". Those lines are added automatically, they'll dissapear when the full version is bought:|

[Xpand]

It's so cool! Congrats dude! You deserve a :+

[Mu5]

Cool Triakis nice work :) :+

[Linchpin]

A little "Look and feel" conceptual speed paint :)

I wanted to depict a more dark and gloomy wipeout world, something along the lines of 2097 hehe.
This was just a super quick speed paint, can work the details up a lot more but the idea was just to capture the atmosphere.


http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2320/wipeoutspeed.jpg

What do you guys think ?:P

[icarasDragon]

What's happened to this, has the works stopped on it or what?

[Xpand]

Well, since school has started I didn't practice anything on C... I've been drawing some ships, but there's no time to make them...

[jesse9705]

guys you know how in real life we got rally cars and rally tracks right well ive been thing what about Wipeout rallys maybye the rallys could be done on metal tracks with dirt on them with rocks everywhere you need to avoid well any simple

dodge as many rocks to get a perfect time score
competitive say we have 1 AI which is really competitive so it makes it more of a challenge ive made a blue print for a rally track for this

its simple a one way track no laps so it has to be challenging and it has to be fairly large for it to work

sorry of the image specs im getting used to using my new graphical studio

and i think i should share the software for the images i make is UP just download the free ware edition at: http://www.ultimatepaint.com/download.php
and i have software for making the installer for the game too! :D

[zero3growlithe]

About this track on your blueprint:
physically impossible to race on it:cowboy

About the idea:
hmmmm, one or two tracks in wipeout fusion is about something like dodging rocks, that was fun but wipeout and sprint race is not compatible with each other:bat (i think so)

[jesse9705]

So how is this game progress going as i think we should start making it about now also i can turn images into dlls do you think that might be a way to create ships?

and we need a file like a .cfg file that contains data like data that will tell the game how fast the ship can go and its collision damage(sheilding) and its handeling and its thrust and i think i made a possible setup for certain keys in the game:

ifkeyispressed(abcd)=closewindow
ifkeyispressed(1)=run=(weapon.dll)
ifkeyispressed( )=run=(speed.dll)
ifkeyispressed(z)=run=(brake.dll)
ifkeyispressed(/)=run=(pause.dll)


so we need to make dll files for the controls to work so that way we can atleast have a way to debug the game or control it

[jesse9705]

I thought of this mode and track i call it Survival mode
You are up against 3 other ships you can drive round the track and You must destroy your opponents to win E.G you hit them with 2 quakes and one of the quakes threw em off track due to the amount of damage the ship no longer can
qualify for winning so in other words its like i demolition derby

[zero3growlithe]

If this game will be different from original wipeout then weapon set should be too, so this is scheme of 4 new weapons:

http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5539020445505 263826

A) Two missiles that automaticaly target an ship ahead of you, but they don't follow him, can be dodged easly:)
B) Two spinning rockets that are just flying forward on the track for specified time (bomb, shield or on two way track like ubermall will split those rockets and make them rikochet from walls)
C) Weapon like plasma, but now it can pierce trough walls. Single shot of laser in short. Charge time: 3 sec. (on image there are 2 sec <- mistake)
D) Ultimate weapon like quake, this time it is a two way weapon (repulsor from wipeout pulse) based on missiles, that hit ALL ships exept user (flying time can be 8 sec)

Cannon, bomb and mines can be left untouched i think:) (Quake, missile, rockets and plasma are replaced)

[jesse9705]

Guys i think we need to be realistic we dont have much of the game made and we need the programming done as soon as possible
i think we need to begin coding it from now if possible or i dont think we can do this


i have taken the liberty of making the instruction manual

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

As much as I hate to be a thorn,any beta releases so far? And was there any timeline in the first place? Maybe the basic game(tracks and crafts) can be done first and named version 1.After the weapons are done,maybe the name can be version 1.1.After more tracks are done,maybe it can be ver. 1.1 revision 1.
Just my thoughts.

[jesse9705]

Ive just finished making some files for our game ive made effects and icons for the files and models for the game ive uploaded them with a zip
and to animated gifs for the game and other

and ive made an IRC for us to talk to each other so we can make the game easier

[omega329]

I suggest some sort of source control, Subversion seems to be good enough for this situation, I don't have the bandwith or ability to host an SVN server, but I've got experience setting one up and running it, so just contact me somehow if you want a how-to in setting one up.
I'd join the IRC channel if I knew the server and channel name :P

Also, have we got a game engine sorted? all these models are nice, but what sort of details are you going to be using? are you just sticking to surface-colour textures, or is something as advanced as parallax mapping going to be implemented?

In terms of modeling, I can vouch for blender being quite a powerful tool, I used it quite a bit a few years back, although it may seem a bit weird starting off, it's actually rather good.

[jesse9705]

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=wipeoutzonegameirc#

well yep there we have it our own IRC


<iframe src="http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=wipeoutzonegameirc%2 3&uio=Mj10cnVlJjQ9dHJ1ZSYxMT0xNzQmMTI9dHJ1ZQ80" width="647" height="400"></iframe>

[Linchpin]

http://i.imgur.com/ctnFJ.jpg

[jesse9705]

Well here is nearly every single bit of work ive uploaded before and more ive just made today i hope they can be very well implemented into the game
some of which include

-Animated gifs for ads or ingame video
-craft designs
-images
-MDL files
-tracks
-icons for the game
-and much more

this is all the things i did here in 1 reason so you wont have to scavenge through the fourms to find my files

sorry if it goes over the allowed limit but this post is a gallery of the images and stuff i made for this game so sorry if it is
if its over the limit you have 100 chances to spam my site without any penalty(100 free spam threads for guys a good deal lol)

[Xpand]

Wait for it... Wait for it!!
http://www.minijuegos.com/Jet-Velocity-3D/10111

[zero3growlithe]

Interesting game:g If we manage to make at least something like this (i'm beggining to learn c++ to help make this game) then that would be something really good8)

Just starting becouse i have a little problem with configuring my workspace (DarkGDK with Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 - can't find 3D-Game template). I'm looking for solution now and maybe someday i'll make an simple game :)

btw. i'm also working on some intro movie for this game. I'll make it as dynamic and good looking as i can (maybe i'll use my "triakis" in it:))

[jesse9705]

i made a animated GIF each frame lasts around 5 secs each showing each part of my menu

and also i got a site we can use to host online events however the only issue is the site can only hold 40 megabites

but that wont be an issue as i can make 2 sites for it

but can you guys give me an idea of how much data online races would use up?

and also o you guys also happen to know what sort of script would i need to make a server communicate between to computers?

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

So far,what has been done? I'm asking because it's been(checks date) three months and seven days since the project was started. I'm not expecting any miracles or what,but I just want to know.

And is it too late to add tracks?

[Xpand]

Well, I managed to make 2D graphics in DOS... But they're static... In some weeks I'll be more active and try to advance to 2D graphics with OGL.

[jesse9705]

you can add new tracks now

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Must the tracks be in 3D or can I submit 2D plans and from there it will be made into 3D?

[jesse9705]

http://wipeoutzonegame.webs.com/

is the link of the site i setup for this project hope you guys can use it well

a also made a disc design cover and a special ship design
the special ship is a chamelion craft it changes colours while you race so its like a special ship you might need to unlock perhaps its my first "Dynamic Ship Livery"

Also i was thinking that after we make the game we make a program that allows ppl to colour and mod their ships

[jesse9705]

Just watch this .gif until it says end of message
this way you dont have to scroll to read and it saves me typing
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=253&pictureid=2910

[Xpand]

Made this track:
Cassandra:

[zero3growlithe]

Track matches the name:nod No jumps and ramps as if it was an girls skin:D

[jesse9705]

I made a fourm for us to make the game now its really good
http://wipeoutzonegame.freeforums.org/
this works too sometimes we had tecnichal issues earlier

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Something is wrong with the link.I keep getting a page cannot be displayed error.
Or did you mean this (http://wipeoutzonegame.webs.com/apps/forums/)?

[jesse9705]

no it works the one i said it was just technical issues

[zero3growlithe]

Xpand how is work going on "Atlantica" track? (my Corridon 6 is long time ago finished and poligon reduction is on its way :P)

[Xpand]

Because I do not know how the game rendering engine will be I can't make too many details...

[zero3growlithe]

I'm already reducing mesh and i have two options during this operation - to make mesh as triangles or rectangles, which one should i choose?

Does it have any effect on perfomance?

[Xpand]

I use rectangle mesh... At least with opengl each poly counts and a rectangle is lighter than two triangles...

[zero3growlithe]

Everyone, guess what8)
Cooooorrrrriiiiidooooooooon 6 (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/Coridon6CompletedFinaly#5547302077426346898) is completed (final version):

This is after mesh reduction ("80mb file -> 24mb file -> 20mb file", big differrance, isn't it:g)
I didn't know that poligons are so "heavy":mr-t

[SaturnReturn]

Woooooooooooow!:eek

That rocks.:guitar:rock:guitar

[yeldar2097]

wo_OW

:clap

[Xpand]

I'm having spasms of awesome!

[metronum]

Exiting

[DjM1zw1z]

If this goes really really far, would it be a bad idea to team up with a professinal games company, to give it the final bits to make it better than HD, and btw are there going to be SL's TT's and ect

[zero3growlithe]

Did anybody noticed that this track is made out of 6 Wipeout HD tracks? :pizza (i mean track, not environment)
Piece:
1. Chenghou Project
2. Ubermall Reverse
3. Metropia
4. Vineta K
5. Anulpha Pass
6. Tech De Ra (exeption, here is environment)
:rock
btw. I think that TT's and SL's are good and there is no need to "throw" them away:cowboy

EDIT: Now i'm making version suitable for our game, rectangle count doesn't exceed 10000, it is good:)

[zero3growlithe]

Some "ugly" (but with less memory consumption) trees that i've made & track that is looking like this (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/Coridon6NoRaytracing#5549535509893542498)
Trees looks like this (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/Coridon6NoRaytracing#5549532292862297058) (it is not all of them), and can be a lot of them here (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/Coridon6NoRaytracing#5549532300045882978)
Look at this (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/Coridon6NoRaytracing#5549535502175661234) scary underwater tunnel :)

[jesse9705]

Well ive made my first high quality level it will need a software to view it tho
The track is textured hopfully it is in mine

[zero3growlithe]

What program did you use to make this ? (i can't find any to open it)

[Xpand]

That tunnel is quite freaky! :nod

[zero3growlithe]

My Corridon 6 is completed again, but this time with manually made trees, light, textures, shadows and glass:rock for our game.
Final file size is..... 12 700kb :sonar (earlier it was about 80mb)

Perspective 1 (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw&pli=1#5549814746194673074)
Perspective 2 (http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw&pli=1#5549828935061948050)

EDIT: Hmmm, i have a little problem with exporting track to other format (.obj or .x or whatever is needed). Textures definitions aren't exporting with project and file size after exporting exceeds 80mb (checked on .obj, .x format exceeds 40mb). The question is... how should i make it? The answer is... the best as it is possible...

[jesse9705]

http://wipeoutzonegame.freeforums.org/

please join and post files and etc its an easier way of maintaining the devolpment

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

jesse,how's progress on the track that you're doing from my design?
I thought Corridon 6 would be a variation of Corridon 12.I was wrong!:P
Reverse run available in this game?

[jesse9705]

well the track im making for you fesiar is good just doing the final design now
and here it is i hope you enjoy as my software cant exactlly do much right now my computer has crashed and im re installing mosta it

anyways i have been researching physX and this is a chart i drew up showing how physics need to be altered for a vertical acent to be made
key
Black=The course a craft without modified physics would go
Purple=The course a craft with modified physics would go
green=areas of downforce
red dot=start of modded physics
blue dot=end of modded physics
2109

[Rotational_aspect]

I'm not trying to ruin your day but you may find development a lot more fun (and easier) if you use a solution such as Blender which has now matured to a useful tool. It has physics built in, and accurate enough for this project. If you look at this post:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=202437

this guy has built an excellent functioning racing game (including menus, car select etc) and is a good learning tool- the only difference is viewpoint (which can be easily modified).

Since its Xmas why not buy a book on Blender and learn it? I admit its not the 'offical' way of making a game but it will teach you several things:

1: Learning a computer language (Python) which is used a lot in games and 3D since it is easier to learn than C.

2: How to model and budget polygons

3: How to texture models in a way that uses video memory efficiently.

A crit on the Coridon 6 track:

It looks nice but why are we seeing it from above? All Wipeout tracks are (obviously) viewed from track level and as such all detail should be geared towards that. Do some more shots from track level and decide if the colossal polygon count is really needed, and spend those polygons on track detail that really matters.

Sorry if that sounds harsh btw.

And just to show I havent been lazy, here is a rejected design from my sketchbook to bring some colour to my post.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

The loop was not supposed to have a jump. It was supposed to be a crossover.And I was intending it to run in the anit-clockwise direction,but clockwise is fine by me as well,but I can't seem to see the undulations that could be used for BRing.

[zero3growlithe]

F.E.I.S.A.R, my Corridon 6 is two-way track (only jump a few inches from start must to be flattened)

btw. Now i'm making an new track named "Alphard"

[jesse9705]

FEISAR sorry about that crossover thing but as i said my software was lost when my PC crashed

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Ok,so this is just Stage One of the final product for now?

[jesse9705]

yep it certainly is

[Xpand]

I guess... Do we even have a base program to put all this models into?

[jesse9705]

well yep we need to actually stop dill dallying and begin true devo of the game now or its pretty much a lost project

[Xpand]

So I made this simple Auricom prototype ship.
It's really low poly, but I can amp it up in a short amount of time!

[Dan Locke]

The pontoons need to be about twice as long, if not even longer. Thicken them a bit, too.

[zero3growlithe]

No no, there is no need to change anything, it is cool as it is now:cowboy

[Xpand]

The pontoons need to be about twice as long, if not even longer. Thicken them a bit, too.

No, actually the cockpit is too large! 8)

[zero3growlithe]

If somebody going to ask me if i'm going to convert Wipeout into WRC or MotorStorm, then the answer is... maybe? (for me this is something to check right away, that's why i'm going to make 3rd track, this time without track made of stell)

Alphard (a little peace of my work, should i continue making this track?)
http://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/MakingOfAlphard#
(everything is hand made, nothing from internet)

Oh! right, the file size now is: 1.88mb (growing really slow)

[jesse9705]

im starting to run out of stuff to do since we have no one truely making the game right now

[SaturnReturn]

Does anyone have a plan, or an overall concept? Generally that would be the first thing to do, I would have thought. You need to define exactly what you'll do, what the ultimate format has to be etc etc. The piecemeal approach of everyone doing their own thing and hoping something comes together will never work.

[jesse9705]

thats exactally what im thinking saturn no one seems to really be making plans for it or even programing
i also made a downforce calculator use it at
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tDuG2uUqHPHNti-zpzsFR6w&hl=en#gid=0

DO NOT TYPE IN THE RED BOXES ONLY TYPE IN THE BLUE BOXES

[Rotational_aspect]

If you want to see your tracks in action get Xpand to re-use his blender Harimau script (on page 2 or 3 of this thread if I remember-or PM him), from there it will be easy to start adding features and testing tracks. If you want to see an almost complete racing game follow the link on my previous post.

[Xpand]

Yeah, I guess I can use blender... I found out some more features and stuff that makes life easier when modelling.
I just have to figure how to place the objects out of the executable file and as .obj files.

[Rotational_aspect]

I would not be so bothered by packing everything into an exe just yet, rather get everything working first.

[Xpand]

No, it's not that. It's that when you save the runtime file it puts the models all inside the executable file, thus making impossible any change to the ship/track model.

I have to find a way to make the model file be independent of the exe file itself.

That's why using OpenGL or C++ programs is better. You can just tell it to grab a file that's located in a certain folder and import it to the game engine.
But the only thing I can display on OpenGL is an array of points that form a solid object inside the program itself, just like blender.

[Rotational_aspect]

The minute I posted my reply I worked out what you meant so sorry about that.

What I should of said was do you have the original .blend file? Because if you do then its fine because you can take out and replace anything you like. It may be slightly annoying for others to install Blender to play the file but if they are making games too then it may be good in the long run. The exe maker is only useful for near complete games ready for testing.

And there is a user made replacement for the exe fle maker in Blender called BlenderPlayer that allows you to change the contents.

Obviously it is more flexible to make everything from scratch but I think realistically that is not an option for this.

[Xpand]

Of course, if we make everything with the same .blend file is easier but the intent of this project was making an open source game. Which it won't be if we use blender, though you can still edit the textures and such.

On other news:
I managed to make a working menu prototype! I'll post it here later today!

[jesse9705]

may i remind all this fouurm at this adress:http://wipeoutzonegame.freeforums.org/index.php?sid=7f3884e8cf109d0b51f8435aa0c4d3c1

is a good way of keeping Track of our progress

[kei]

The idea behind "open source" is that your source code is openly available for anybody to review / download / compile and ultimately contribute to. Now this is going to sound a little harsh .. but you can have all the ideas + documents + sketches + models you want, without a working version you don't have a game project.

So, start a project at Google Code (http://code.google.com/hosting/)¹ / SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/), or create a Dropbox (http://www.dropbox.com/)², or set up your own FTP .. just get the source out there somehow :mr-t

¹ Recommended for open source projects
² Recommended for small team projects

[Xpand]

That's nice! I'll take a look!

[jesse9705]

Ive made a Google Code project for us to manage the project
http://code.google.com/p/wipeout-zone/
please try to use it so we can actually get the code out there

[Xpand]

Ok, let's regroup and start this all over again:

We need programmers, modellers/designers and texture/graphic artists.
We should do things like this:
-Name of the game (of course it can't be Wipeout due to copyrights).
-Making a simple program to run the 3D models.
-Prototyping the ships, tracks, menus and graphics.
-Modeling the above referred.
-Enhance the program with physics.
-Add A.I. (artificial intelligence).
-Debugging.
-Release.

This is version 1.
The second version could have weapons and such... Basicaly following the same path as the original Wipeout series.

Let's simplify and reorganize.

I'll do the prototyping of the ships if there are no objections.

[zero3growlithe]

I can make a simple program to run 3d models :)

(my programming language: C++)

[Xpand]

That would be awesome! I know a little of C++ too, enough to make complex calculator programs in DOS.
You make for which file format? OBJ would be great for a first program.
And, if you please, could you share the source code for that?

[icarasDragon]

I'm not half bad with futuristic design, perhaps I could have a go Xpand? (But of course i'm no artist unless i'm drawing IRL

And just to get the ball rolling how about Velocity: Evoloution
The evoloution of speed

[jesse9705]

Im a good imager or modler and im good for some programming i know javascript and HTML so i may be able to set up a online server

,Xpand can you maybye make Fesaer's and my track into one like you did with that harmaui test track the image here is provided id just like the track anyway it can be made(sorry about my spelling im tired)
and that midle part with a gap in the track just lyk make that solid to go on or somthing
2146

[zero3growlithe]

If i make that program i'll share source code, about format of models... i have problems with exporting them to .obj (.x is working a little better)

EDIT:
btw. I began learning C++ maybe... 4 days ago? So it may take a little more time...

[icarasDragon]

I'm happy to ships, HUDS, Weapons or anything!

Track design eludes me tho...
Xpand, post or pm here and i'll do any assingment you ask :)

[DjM1zw1z]

is there going to be a awesome plasma design??!!!

[Xpand]

Well, DialgiX, if you want to design some ships it will be great, if you can model tracks it would awesome and if you can design working HUDs it would be outstanding!

jesse9705, I can make something based on your track, is it ok with you?

zero3growlithe, I need to know the type of X file you use so I can find an exporter for 3ds max and blender.

[zero3growlithe]

Rhinoceros exports files to (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p7-GSStlxB7NQ9-VfaJuH5vKcBreqPaKGegrWrNQUJY?feat=directlink)

(sorry for polish version)