(SSGX Origins) Let's make a Wipeout game! This time for real!

[Xpand]

Nice, it's DX .X files... :g

[jesse9705]

Xpand its okay with me if you make somthing based on fesiar's and my track its always okay to use my ideas

[zero3growlithe]

Becouse of school (damn:brickwall) my work is going reaaaaalllyyyy slooooow, for now i can (wow...:robot) rotate my 3D object (in .x format) using arrow keys. Not much for now

btw. i'll be updating this post with what i have achieved:

02.01 - 06.01.2011
-----------------------------------
- loading 3D object in .x
- assigning keys
- rotating objects
- moving camera using keys/mouse

06.01 - 01.02.2011
-----------------------------------
- bump mapping

[Xpand]

Yeah, school is starting and time is short...
What you've accomplished is great! I can't load a 3D model with OpenGL yet...

[zero3growlithe]

I'm using DarkGDK, so loading 3D object is nothing hard:

// Load 3D object and set its position
dbLoadObject ("Ship.x", 1);
dbPositionObject (1,0,0,0);

[zero3growlithe]

I'm going to buy an small book about C++ programming soon, in the meantime i've found some video tutorials from "helpfullprogrammer (http://www.youtube.com/user/helpfullprogrammer)" on youtube, i'll go trough them, learn some basics then go to see if i can make an step in making our "Velocity: Evolution" :g, if i get stuck... i have one option... buy 3 toms of book about game programming for about 600 pages each one:mr-t:D

EDIT: I saw that Connavar is making his own game... so, there will be 2 versions of game :)

[Xpand]

Yeah, I oughta go look for some of those too... They're really helpful.. I saw one about 3ds max, I didn't buy it, but the three pages I saw tought me a few tricks I could use on gmax.

[jesse9705]

if (key is pressed(Key:Right)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
if (key is pressed(Key:Left)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
if (key is pressed(Key:Up)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
if (key is pressed(Key:Esc)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
if (key is pressed(Key:Space)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
if (key is pressed(Key:Down)) then {INSERT FUNCTION HERE}
I recommend that The Right Key Moves you right
I Recommend that the left key moves you left
i recommend that Up Button is to accellarate
If Down Is pushed it should slow the craft down
If Space is pushed it should be used in the menus to select options and items etc but in race it should serve as the weapon fire button
Im Not So Sure Is We Could Put JoyStick configuration in but we could perhaps Add Mouse Compatability?
This might help
Perhaps this could work?

And Perhaps We Can Move To Physics well i believe that We Should Make Tracks Less Dependent on the level physics but rather we instead We Use A magnet like physics in parts of the track where its likely to fly over the edges of the tracks the magnet physics might help us save time in editing the entire level physics but rather magnetise it?

Also you know the wipeout pilots with the last name Tesuto well i found out this Tesuto is test in japan but its only Tesuto read phonetically

[Xpand]

Well, the ship's brakes are the two airbrakes deployed at the same time. About the floating physics I think we should try to make the track emit an upward force field and apply to the ship a downwards force with the same intensity as the force field.

I also have a few ships on my sketch board. Just need to improve the drawings to show them here.

[zero3growlithe]

Guys, my head had been hit by an awesome idea:hyper "Let's make a Open World Wipeout Game!":cowboy. Ahead of my eyes passed an great image of long tracks, big cities, and beautiful environments (my glimpses of crazy dreams:dizzy). Is this not a great idea?:donut

I even know how to realize that:)

btw. Jessie - you forgot about pitching :) (i'm still thinking about controlls in game, it's difficult becouse of KEYBOARD...)
In programming i thought about ship phisics too... aren't there some physics formulas needed to accomplish this? (i suck in this subject :redface:)

[SaturnReturn]

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by 'Open World'? That's something I associate more with RPG type games.

[zero3growlithe]

Need for Speed Carbon/Most Wanted, Test Drive Unlimited, Burnout Paradise... (something like that) but environment futuristic of course :)

[SaturnReturn]

Well it certainly sounds very ambitious. That's kind of what I thought you meant, but it's difficult to imagine it, because it would be a bit like F1 cars rolling around on the streets. I'm sure there are ways around that though.

I can't help but feel like initial attempts would be best focussed on something simple though. Things like this tend not to get very far. People will put a lot of effort in individually but without a clear idea on exactly where it's going. Just as a suggestion, the idea sounds cool, but perhaps it's best to take things one thing at a time? I'm not involved so you can feel free to ignore me, I just feel like it would be better for maintaining people's motivation if there could be some kind of early finished product, even just a simple one-track mini-game with basic models that everyone can download and fly around. I'm still not sure I gather from the thread what the initial plan is for the first end product to be here. Has that already been mentioned somewhere?

[zero3growlithe]

Don't know, but fell the same... where are we going :|?:dizzy

btw. My work won't go to trash if not used in game, it fills my portfolio with months (maybe years:)) of good job8)

[Xpand]

Well, I was aiming at something like WipE'out". A little bit more simplified, perhaps. The only problem we have right now is making a program that will run the models. Then you just add more stuff. I'm leaving OpenGL and focus on DirectX, due to its simplicity. The only problem I have in my personal life is lack of free time. And the time I have for myself isn't even enough to start the search for DirectX tutorials.

[Mu5]

I agree with saturn you are needing a development plan.

As for Direct X...I would be careful if I were you mate, there are dragons lurking there :D ..even an experienced programmer would have difficulty jumping right into Direct X programming. I would jump on the XNA bandwagon if I were you, free compiler and sdk...and even a racing starter kit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgChURF5fQE)!! :D Great place to start! :+

You could change the car models and make them float...change the track...your there!!! :D :+

[jesse9705]

OMG i just came up with a genius idea what if the wipe-out crafts arent really floating like we see in the game they might be standing on an invisible surface and benath that is a ground which makes us think we are floating but we are not so perhaps this can work for our game

I.E

Green=invisible ground it is like a jelly so their is no grinding of the craft
black=not solid ground but it makes us imagine we float ground

Ship Floats on invisible jelly here
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------

So really the crafts might not be floating and they may use their thrust to push them along however the grounds property makes the invisible ground like a jelly which will allow no grinding of the ship nice idea huh?

[Dan Locke]

Regarding keyboard controls, there's no reason to set them up differently from the console games' controls. Use the arrow keys or WASD in place of a crosspad, with Enter or Escape being the pause menu, and put the thrust and weapon functions on the opposite side of the keyboard, with the left and right brake keys on either side of them. Here's the configuration that I've always used for the PC and emulated versions:

Arrow keys = Pitch and rotation

Left Shift = Left brake

Spacebar = Right brake

X = Thrust

Z = Use weapon

S = Drop weapon

D = Change view

Left Control = Rear view

C = Hyperthrust (in Wipeout 3)

Enter (or, more recently, Right Shift) = Pause

Of course, the keys should be user-definable, and not locked into a predetermined configuration. But I figured that it would be helpful to post a configuration that I find comfortable to use. Arrange your hands on the keyboard to line up with it; it works quite well.

[jesse9705]

Perhaps Someone can like make a modified keyboard for the game?

[Xpand]

OMG i just came up with a genius idea what if the wipe-out crafts arent really floating like we see in the game they might be standing on an invisible surface and benath that is a ground which makes us think we are floating but we are not so perhaps this can work for our game

I.E

Green=invisible ground it is like a jelly so their is no grinding of the craft
black=not solid ground but it makes us imagine we float ground

Ship Floats on invisible jelly here
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------

So really the crafts might not be floating and they may use their thrust to push them along however the grounds property makes the invisible ground like a jelly which will allow no grinding of the ship nice idea huh?

No... The floating effect is made with auto-playing animations. The ship's physics are just like any other racing game with the difference of having a bit less grip on the track.
Also, the ships stand higher on the track because the model is positioned above the XoY plane, or the reference datum on the compiler tells the program to place the model a bit higher.


I have the XNA compiler installed. It uses DX too... The only difference is the exported files. I wanted at least the textures to be editable (bmp or tga) and not as XNA texture files...

[Mu5]

Im not familiar with .dx exported files. I am right in that you build the model with GMAX, export as .dx then import into XNA? Are you using c#? I would like to have a go at getting that working :) I could give you some help - could you give us more details?

How good would it be when the ship is finally imported and you get it 'floating' :D :+

[Edit] :beer

Looks like the way to go is Autodesk .FBX files in XNA :+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWtKK_0Ytqo

[Xpand]

The first program I made in XNA was with a gmax model exported as a DX file. I'm more used to C++... But I guess I could give C# a try... Let me get the time to learn the basics... Right now school is smothering me...

[zero3growlithe]

Yeah, this is hell :twisted if you want to do something "more useful" than subjects in school (exept: math, physics, and foreign languages)8)

btw. I think i have an idea, but when i think more about it, it becomes more "difficult": our ship is 1 model with pivot in center (i guess), if we could add an 1px large ball (with its own pivot) about 2 inches under ship and make them full group... ok, that's stupid idea XD

[Xpand]

And that's supposed to do what?

[zero3growlithe]

Keep the ship high enough to not touch the track (btw. give it a possibility to make "normal" barrel roll; ball itself touch the track) and not to collide with what is "under" the ship so it won't penetrate the track (i said that it was stupid idea so never mind with it) :redface::cold:brickwall
Maybe i just shut up and do my work:)

[Rotational_aspect]

You could make life easier for yourself by using the Blender physics option fh dist that enables a 'cushion' around/ underneath all models that have it enabled. This would allow floating without the need to relocate a models -x/y co-ordinate. And since it is a setting rather than being fixed it allows the feature to be changed mid game (gravity mine? gravity push? etc etc).

I know people seem to be reluctant to use Blender but it is GPL software and it does all you need. It would also mean eliminating this dependence on old software like GMax which is obsolete and difficult to export from. It also means you will learn a modern 3d program, as the 3DSM interface has changed a great deal (it (GMAX) is already 8 versions old). Lastly with GLSL, what you create in Blender render wise is what you will see in game (90% with a good PC), and Blender is multiplatform, ie Linux, Mac and Windows.

Rant over.

[Xpand]

@zero: That is what I've been doing all along. I place the ship a bit higher from the 0 datum and animate the floating effect.
@Rotational_aspect: I use 3DS Max for the ships now.
The material fh dist doesn't seem to work... I've tried it multiple times before but I can't get it to work... I tried a force field too, but no luck...

[Rotational_aspect]

Remember Fh dist has to be enabled on ALL dynamic models, this includes the floor as well as the object that floats on it.

[jesse9705]

Soundtracks!

Maybe we can start on those now to?

you know save us a bit of time perhaps

also i thought of a level or place called the garage where you can like Make a custom craft like say you can make a custom paintstyle or somthing like that i made the level all ready all it needs is some textures and some programming

[zero3growlithe]

I exceptionally looked a little on Wipeout Pulse to find out how it is made, found nothing interesting so i looked in internet a little and found an plug-in for PSP that extracts all 3D models that are currently loaded to memory (it has to be run during game) and saves on MS in .3d (program included to convert file to .obj).
From the exctracted model i found out that the "dynamic HUD" is just transparent surface ahead of our camera with all "goodies" (speed, energy, lap time, etc.) Too bad it don't extracts textures...:frown:

Upload an model from Pulse?

[Rotational_aspect]

In a word, no. If you ripped assets from games that is copywright theft and Sony won't be happy.

And why not just make something original rather than just copying what exists? In the mean time just use simple boxes as dummies when testing, and sort out the game logic first.

[zero3growlithe]

Who said that i want to put tracks from original Wipeout to our? I just want to do an overview of possible ways for making this game... (i know that we can't copy anything from original games):rolleyes:

[Rotational_aspect]

You wont learn very much from doing this- at best you will see how developers model assets suitable for low end hardware. But as far as programming, you will get very little.

The bottom line is people on this thread need to do a reality check. Modelling, thinking up ideas and drawing are easy. What is hard is making it all work and doing the programming- something I realised very soon after starting this as a hobby.

Its why my Blender manual is so worn out, you have to accept that there are no short cuts or silver bullets and start learning to code. This is the reason why I chose Blender, as it has graphical logic blocks that I can understand, and Python for advanced work. I used to use Gamestudio but I realised my skill level was too low at that time to learn Lite C (the language it uses) which is similar to C. Even now I struggle, but I resist trying to look too deeply into other commercial games as it just wastes time and energy. But as I struggle to learn Python /BGE logic you start to see how games should be structured. This is important as you learn solid foundations that serve you better in the long run rather than grasping at straws hoping a quick fix is a Google search away.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but unless people understand this fact then this thread will just fill up with ideas and drawings and not what it was created for, which was to make a simple fan-made game.

[zero3growlithe]

Ok, i understand you clearly8)

[Xpand]

Gosh!I still can't make the Fh work... Can you send me a floating box example so I can see what's missing?

Oh, and I have concept drawings of two ships... I'll post them tomorrow.
Woops.. sorry for the double post... I accidently pressed quote instead of edit...

[Rotational_aspect]

Here is a very simple demonstation of using the fh dist setting. Remember:

Do FH must be enabled on the actor (in this case the cube). The cubes physics setting is DYNAMIC.

The ground is set to STATIC. Under the materials for the ground, set DYN to on, play with the various physics settings to reduce/ eliminate the springyness. Dampening will eliminate it.

W moves right and S goes left.

This is my limit at the moment, still learning. I'm finding the transtion to 2.55/ 2.56 very confusing so this is from 2.49.

Hope this helps!

[Xpand]

Thanks a LOT! I have 2.49 too...

So, yeah! I made a simple game in blender, just to put the Fh to test and it's really good, with the little problem of the ship spinning out of control when it touches the wall, even if it is just a scratch...

[Rotational_aspect]

Excellent news, I'm glad its all starting to work- post some screenshots if you can! If its not being cheeky can you post the blend file? I wouldnt mind having a look at something that works.

As far as the control issues, you may want to play with the ships mass settings (in the actor panel) to make it harder for collisions to make it spin out of control. Another way might be to ghost the ship and link it to a primitive shape, as this may make the collision engine more predictable and less unstable.

At the minute I am looking at servo movement as this may give the feeling of 'drift' in the controls

[Xpand]

Well, here's the blender file:

http://www.4shared.com/file/I4U0stCT/Wo_blend_game.html


Keys:
up arrow - accelerate
left and right - turn

R - Restart

[Rotational_aspect]

Thanks for sharing!

Thats a realy good start, cetainly is good to see a logic set up in action. Now you can try out your tracks once you have tweaked the handling. You may want to look at constraints for the ships motion too, stopping any bad crashes!

I bet you loved it when you saw your ship flying around! I zoomed out and saw the track- very Zone like!

One question though, what does the ray sensor and the python script do? I'm guessing it aligns the ship to the surafce normal. If this is the case, there is an option 'rotate from normal' in the physics section that might do something similar.

[Xpand]

Yeah, I liked it a lot... I'll see about those constrains...

The ray sensor and script indeed aligns the object to the track's faces normal.

The ship has a texture map... I forgot to include it on the pack...

About the constraint: I used a directional constraint, but it's set to the global y axis. Is there any way to set it to the local y axis? Or should I use an angular velocity constraint?

[jesse9705]

Xpand how is the track me and feasier made going

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: have you tried using the L button on the constraint logic panel? When its active (ie pressed down) it uses the objects local axis.

[Xpand]

Gotta see that...
Jesse, I want to finish the game basics before making the models...

I'm thinking of making these too:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2024/protonx.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8070/agsfx200.jpg


Now I'm addicted to profile views, lol!

[jesse9705]

i thought of how they can make their own custom ship skins
and image that is pretty much the skin of the entire ship
then the name it like
Pretend the ships a triakis
TRIAKIS.CUSTOMSKIN
rather then them having to program the skin they just then put it in the skin folder and they can cycle it on off in the actual game

[Xpand]

Details... I have the speed pads config on blender. I used a ray sensor and properties.

[Rotational_aspect]

Did you ever sort out the handling of the ships Xpand? I've been trying but I think some spin on collision is inevitable. Have you got a demo blend with these speed pads? They sound pretty cool!

Find attached my experimentation with force field constraints- at the minute they are exaggerated so I can see if they are working (or not!). I thought they might be useful as they can be assigned on or off (kind of like auto assist in WO HD). The only problem is the track has to be designed in a certain way to stop physics glitches but they have potential.

[jesse9705]

im not sure what i can use to open the blend files what can i use

[Rotational_aspect]

They open in a 3d program called Blender.

[jesse9705]

where can i download this program

[Xpand]

I have a blend file here, just let me finish what I'm doing...
Huh, the spinning is a little boring... I guess I could make two invisible objects: one on the tail of the ship and the other on the nose. Add a script so their property became true when their axis rotated 180 degrees and then add a actuator on the ship to add a torque force until the property becomes false again...

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: That sounds a good way to stop the rotation, the other way I thought of was to use the parent actuator. Have a dummy set as the physics object with the visible player ship parented to the dummy. When the dummy registers a hit with the track sides (set via materials) it could be possbile to unparent the ship from the dummy and stop the spinning (as at that point only the dummy has collided with anything).

One cheating way might be to use the Python car script. This will stop the ships drifting as the ship is guided using invisible wheels and may (due to anisotropic friction) stop the wild spins at high speed. This would also mean you would have to fake the hovering motion with an IPO etc. but it is doable.

I had hoped force fields would solve this issue (and they have to a degree)- though I think Python is the way to go to fine tune things.

Ok, updated Blend file time! Find attached a semi-good handling set up. Its still a bit slippery, but the players ship does not spin out when it hits something. The track is just a tester so you are meant to hit the sides!

Update number 2, tweaked the handling some more.

jesse9705: http://www.blender.org/

[Xpand]

I can't start the game on your file... must be some compatibility issue...
Anyways,here goes the speed pad file.

[Rotational_aspect]

8) Thanks for the file, will learn lots from that!

I forgot to add that I've made the jump to 2.56a, now I know what I'm doing it is a better layout than 2.49b. I've tried opening the file in 2.49 and you are right as it fails to open. If you want you can install 2.56a into another separate folder. I use this setup as it means I can take a look at older files pre 2.56, and they don't interfere with each other.

The only problem I have at the minute is I seem to have a strange bug in the movement of the ship, but aside from that it seems to be quite 'Wipeout'-y. I will post back when its cracked!

Thinking about it some more, you could apply the same logic to making a pit lane, if the ray hits the pit lane texture/ model the players energy value increases. I stupidly forgot I can make standalone runtimes: You can download the handling test here: (Its 17.3mb ish and named WO.zip).

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2MQ1Q3FN

[Rotational_aspect]

Its been a while, so here is an update! (2.56 file though).

Been tinkering with logic blocks etc and I have got a working energy meter that recharges and never goes over a set limit, plus I have also included the speedboost logic from Xpand. The ship also has a slow parented camera and collisions do not spin the ship. The level is pretty simple so still lots to do. By the way, if the energy drops to zero, the placeholder game over scene appears (a black looking box).

[jesse9705]

cant seem to open some of these they are .250 files? what's wrong then?

[Rotational_aspect]

The files require 2.56a, which as far as I know is the latest beta of blender.

[feisar rocket]

Sorry for coming so late ( 1 yr later). Can i help? I'm not good at programming but, making clay models and drawing is wat I can do. So can I? If you can sent photos of how far you guys are and I'll work from there.

[Crash8308]

I have not worked with XNA before but I am pretty good with visual C#.

let me know If i can be of any assistance with the XNA thing.

[Xpand]

Well, at the moment we're trying out the physics in Blender, then we'll make the shift to C type programs.

[Rotational_aspect]

If I'm being honest, I am only creating a Blender template to a point and then my racing game will diverge from the Wipeout mould. As well as this I will stick with Blender and learn Python, and when I feel confident then I may try C.

By the way, added side shifting- if you toggle 'tap' on the keyboard sensor it stops people sideshifting continuously.

My next challenge will be to do a race start countdown, and then AI.

[Xpand]

Gotta check that AI thing... Do you use recorded physics or real AI?

[Rotational_aspect]

I will try to use / develop real AI that reacts to the environment / other ships. I have some ideas but it will take a while to build, luckily Blender excels in allowing rapid prototyping- I have already got a working 3-2-1-go! style countdown after about 30 mins tinkering.

Recorded physics would be OK, Ive seen (and linked to) YouTube videos with this happening but I would prefer the real thing if I can.

I have tried to read as many articles on racing AI as I can, however, most are just too complicated so I may try for a waypoint system.

[feisar rocket]

I'll take that as a no...

[Xpand]

No one said no! We don't have ships nor real tracks yet. You can start making some concepts for those!

[zero3growlithe]

We have track, my corridon6, or you just don't like it. If so, then i'll do my best to make it raceable (or how you spell that) and i'll work some on scale, becouse it's still too BIG environment:mr-t. Track is not suitable for phantom speed too, i must flatten it a little)

btw. About progrraming... hmmmmm, no time, that's all. I've completly thrown my school lessons to "recycle bin" :turd. Making up slowly makes my busy all the time:twisted

[Xpand]

Oh, right yeah! I forgot that one sorry! :P

[feisar rocket]

No one said no! We don't have ships nor real tracks yet. You can start making some concepts for those!

Ohh, ok! ( Don't be mad at me...)

[Crash8308]

If I'm being honest, I am only creating a Blender template to a point and then my racing game will diverge from the Wipeout mould. As well as this I will stick with Blender and learn Python, and when I feel confident then I may try C.

By the way, added side shifting- if you toggle 'tap' on the keyboard sensor it stops people sideshifting continuously.

My next challenge will be to do a race start countdown, and then AI.

python is very easy to learn, so is C. you should start with C as python is primarily an interpreted language. learn the data structures and move on from there.

[Rotational_aspect]

Crash8308> While Python is only an interpreted language, for me its a good start as I am a bit of a slow learner and I like the tight intergration with Blenders engine (i.e. the logic blocks of BGE allow me to visualise things more easily). In the future (when I have time to sit back- which is never:D) I may give C a go, but at the minute this is just a fun hobby and accessibility is key. Once apon a time I did start to use a program called Gamestudio which had a C like language but that just was too hard for my skill level at the time.

[feisar rocket]

I made a track but, I dont know if u would like it..., nor do I have a name for it.

One question, does tracks need pit lanes? It would be great to know that ( I dont want to make mistakes and waste paper).

[Xpand]

Show it.
I don't know if we need a pit-lane...

[feisar rocket]

Ok I will when I get my laptop back. One more question; can tracks have Maglocks? Or you guys are not that far...

Btw, the drawing is a top-down view (birds' view or, if your in a plane and look down (ya you guys kno what I mean)). Untill I get my laptop, I'll keep you posted.

[feisar rocket]

I'm going to learn how to use blender and C (I hope...). I want to help more! So, I can try to make my tracks then sent it to you guys. One question; do you guys have a HUD? I made one thats why...

[Xpand]

Top views is what we want. If you can make a side profile, it's good too!

[zero3growlithe]

Xpand, i wanted to upload my track but... i can't import it to (3ds/obj) with correct material definitions, so my question is: Is this possible for you to correct them using Blender? (this is much work:brickwall but i'm sure you'll manage to make it :cowboy, or give it to someone else:bat:donut)

[Xpand]

Well, send the file and I'll see what I can do...

[zero3growlithe]

Thanks, i'll sort materials for you to make them easier to assign.

[feisar rocket]

I drew it. Is that a problem?

[zero3growlithe]

Just show it!!! It can be even an txt showing track made of symbols!!! Anything, or just don't show it to us now, only when you're finished... jezus, this forum is not for teasing...

btw. sorry if i've offended you, but you are acting childish:rolleyes:... even more than me

EDIT: Xpand, here's the track:
http://rapidshare.com/files/452159022/Corridon6___Materials.rar

[Xpand]

Ok, I'll give you a feedback in wednesday, now I don't have time to do that.

[feisar rocket]

Two tracks I made, the one with the green line
is a simple track (I did NOT want to push it). The track with the orange area is just a random track that came to mind.

Can you tell me if there not good, i'll make new ones if you don't like them...

[Xpand]

That's a little bit simple, try to make something about 65% crazier and 30% longer with 40% more turns... :g

[Darkdrium777]

Needs to be 20% cooler. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLI2RGdcD8E)

[feisar rocket]

That's a little bit simple, try to make something about 65% crazier and 30% longer with 40% more turns... :g

Cool, I'll see what I can do.

[feisar rocket]

New track. Red line is racing line and, white boxes have words in there so, zoom in!

[zero3growlithe]

Ok... i'll "simply" visualise it in 3D for tomorrow and you'll see if you want it;)

Simple sketch:
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5584367762028 479026

Visualization in 3D:
1 (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5584958740450 123122) 2 (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5584958752784 237986) 3 (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5584958777779 032642)

How do you like it?

[MyNameIsBom]

ummm im not sure if this is the wrong place to post it but ill just put it here...

Edit:
Track info.

For the Magnetic loop it is like the one on Talon's Junction
For the spectator area it is basiclly like Chenghou Project's Shortcut place right after the Double platform
For the tunnel it is like the tunnel on Tech De Ra's tunnel...
Park area? Similar to Uber Mall's :)
Hope this is good enough details

[zero3growlithe]

Looks great, i'll see what i can do to not f*** up this project, becouse it's really good:nod:+

Progression list: (will be systematically updated)
19.03.11-16:52 https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5585818944002 142290
21.03.11 One building...
23.03.11 Many buildings
24.03.11 Eliminated loop
24.03.11- 18:32 -> 21:13 Almost whole track is made... whew :)

[MyNameIsBom]

It was just an idea I had in my head while in a maths class at school, I was kinda bored so I started drawing lots of WipEout Tracks, I have about 7 so far.. some are complicated and some are simple, I'm trying to work out the actual 3-D vesions of them but drawing is kinda complicated if you're not good at it xD (Best tracks idea is made when I'm bored..)

I'll upload my tracks concepts ASAP.

and thanks for the nice comment zero3 :)

[Xpand]

Those are looking nice! Can't wait to get my hands on blender... one more week and I'll be up and making games again! :g

[zero3growlithe]

I have my school subjects rearranged (except physics) and i have free hand to make many 3D models8)

EDIT: Updated track:
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5585818944002 142290

[feisar rocket]

I made a building (on the tracks sides) it looks cool. I'll upload it when I go on my netbook but, im trying to make the Toros ring move and it won't so...

MyNameIsBom, nice track! I just make simple ones...

[MyNameIsBom]

wow you're amazing zero3!! nice work!!
Love to see more from you!
What programme did you use to create the tracks?

[zero3growlithe]

Rhinoceros 4.0 (my blog: zero3growlithe.wordpress.com)
btw. If you had known how easy is it, you wouldn't have said that:)

[MyNameIsBom]

I'm working on an new track at the moment, and your blog won't show up on my laptop.. Is the link broken? the page just comes up blank

[zero3growlithe]

Link is correct: check your browser's options like: java script/eneble flash/show images etc.

btw. from upper posts i undarstand that track is good and i can continue making it :):+

[zero3growlithe]

Questions about track:

- track have to be done in skies or on ground?
- should i make 3D clouds if in sky?
- how much detailed it must be (buildings=textures or 3D made buildings) <- you know what i mean? :g
- what it should be like? light (like Sol 2) or dark (like Amphiseum)?
- is name "Pashtun Wheel" good? (i know, it sounds strange)
- does somebody likes my tracks :? :P :dizzy

[Xpand]

It can be in the sky.
Make simple tracks first: jsut focus on the track itself.
After testing in the program, you can make the rest... Maintain the polycount low for now...

[zero3growlithe]

I'll keep that in mind... for now i have this (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5586255884318 108578) with 27017 poligons count
:batI'll make it flying in the sky:bat
Already got the idea in my mind

[MyNameIsBom]

it was meant to be like metropia's style up and around buildings but ok...
I also just done another track,
it has Anulpha pass, Sebenco, and Moa Therma bits in it... Will post it soon

[zero3growlithe]

Hey man <- ("i didn't know that it sounded as if i been angry"), i'm the "God" of this model, so i can make/change/destroy everything, so metropia like style (even better) is piece of cake:donut:cowboy

[MyNameIsBom]

I didn't say it was bad! sorry if my comment offended you, my bad I was really speechless after I saw the track! it was awesome!!!!

[zero3growlithe]

no, no, no... i just said i can do anything, i meant that if you want metropia style, then i can make it for you, becouse it's your project. Don't be sad ;) (btw. i'm not offended :dizzy)

You can upload next track

Rotational_Aspect, here's the track in .obj (http://rapidshare.com/files/453706889/Pashtun_Wheel.rar) so you can check it if it's possible to ride on it (most likely there will be problem with loop, i think that i must give it more poli's)

[feisar rocket]

Mixing tracks, I see. I should mix classics (W'O and XL and 3 tracks. Mabey Fusion) and add pit lanes to them (because their classic). Good idea?! Yeah, mabey?

[MyNameIsBom]

yeah thats a good I dea feisar rocket, I just wanted to have some existing bits of tracks in my desings so I thought why not have different bits of each tracks in a single track, it sounded bad at the start but actually is good idea in the end! :rock

edit:
@zero3growlithe
I'm having trouble with internet in the laptop, the Internet is down so it takes a very loooooooooooooooooooong time to upload the pictures. Once they're on the net they get corrupted -_-
so I got to wait till Internet is back up. Meanwhile I'll come up with more ideas/concepts, this time with 3D-ish more details and maybe description of where it is.
Thanks for you efforts btw zero3growlithe!!! you rock! :rock

[Rotational_aspect]

This will be a mini update as to what I am doing at the minute.

zero3growlithe- here is the good news and bad news.

Good news- the .obj import worked well

Bad news- at the minute the physics for the ships does not do loop the loops. They are possible (Yo Frankie (A Blender game) had them) but mag strip stuff is way off right now. Also, its hard to explain but the track as to be made in a certain way for the physics to work without glitches- the simpler the geometry the better. The only real way of doing this is to get a working control scheme for a player in Blender and construct the track and test as you go to check for glitches. It also means you have more control over the model process and you dont have to import/ export anything.

Therefore a better way of making tracks would be to use Blender.

OK, mini update (at the minute all Logic Blocks)

Speed pads- working
Recharge lane- working
3-2-1 go race start (which stops players/ AI starting until go! is displayed)- working
Semi working start/finish line that asigns race positions (per lap only, more complex would requre Python)
Timer- WIP, might require Python

Movement (own section)- subjective as what I like others might not, but here are my findings.

The Blender dynamic physics objects are not suited for high speed (i.e. Rapier+) as turning becomes difficult and glitches start to crop up (spinning etc) when dynamic torque is applied. In my set up I use rot rather than Z torque as it seems more stable. However, AI that turns looks juddery using this method. I could use loc and rot (non dynamic) with Python to increase speed gradually but that is not a realistic short term option (i.e. Python is very new to me).

My setup in a simple Blender track (forward, limited reverse, sideshifting, true hovering using material physics) - working

AI- this has its own section as I have tried several approaches.

Approach 1: Node based- works, but with logic blocks is very complicated and has several flaws when using dynamic (physics based) objects.

Approach 2: Node based with movement based on non-dynamic objects- works better but movement is unrealistic (instant acceleration).

Approach 3: Hybrid of 1 & 2- Node based with a dynamic object tracking a non-dynamic 'dummy' object. Works, but still complicated with the flaws of approach 1.

Approach 4: Track has a pre-determined path that a node follows. The node advances several frames when a ship gets near it (the node thus acts as a waypoint of sorts). This approach is best (so far) as it is simple to set up.

In all cases I have experimented with using force fields, rays and radars to detect objects with partial success.

AI following -I tried a way to combine AI path following as well as aiming by making the AI ships etc ships follow the ship in front rather than the node (so weapons are automatically aimed) -WIP, partial success, lots of logical errors

Weapon AI -not started, but the use of radar and rays to detect ships in range on paper should be easy.

To do:

Investigating dynamic text

Work on my own racing game concepts-(my game will be significantly more different than WipeOut)

Try to learn some basic Python

Investigate 2D filters in Blender

Whew! Thats that for now, if anyone wants to play with the blend files of any of the above just request it here and I will see what I can do.

[Xpand]

PLEASE!!! :g

[zero3growlithe]

About that strange AI ships starting i think i have an idea.
How about making some checkpoints in general points of track, that when an AI fly through it, it will get an defined instruction that initiate combination of buttons that player uses, for example:

Race starts, AI gets instruction "X button for whole race" (so it accelerate same as player)
but what about rest of the race? Can be like i said (checkpoints and specialy defined button combination or line, alternating) or only defined line after first checkpoint to the end of the race.

Don't know if you understand me through my complicated english:blarg (i have 5 from this subject in school though:))

btw. I knew that import works well becouse i'm checking models with blender before uploading;)
btw2. <- (???) I think that i can eliminate loops, becouse i think they're useless (but i can leave them untouched MyNameIsBom, if you want), i've eliminated one from my Corridon6 so far.

[feisar rocket]

I can't even use blender (good). I can make buildings but, tracks-just a touch (then CRITICAL fail).

I made a building and will upload by this weekend. I just can't move that wicked toros surface (for floting feels).

For tracks in 3D, I use 3Dtin (app on Chrome). It can't realy run games (or make games) but, it really works. I just need to link the photos in a photo editor.

I'm going to look on the net for an other developer and report back.

I would love to learn how to use Blender. Any tips, PM me.

[MyNameIsBom]

@zero3growlithe
um ok sure, that loop was kinda abit too far anyway. well that means I got to modify my other 3 concepts that I made today, it has no loops but Mag-Lock Bits in it.
and a question.. can you import ship models into blender to use from GoogleSketchup?

[zero3growlithe]

If Blender exports models to .3ds then yes, you can open them in SketchUp using import option (but if you meant SketchUp models on Blender, it works too)

feisar_rocket, blender is hard to use even for me :P

[Rotational_aspect]

Blender 2.56a directly imports Collada *.dae files from Sketchup.

Xpand- I need to clean up some of the files before I post them, this may take a while.

And to those who think Blender is hard work- I started using Blender a few months ago, I cannot program to save my life but look at the (basic by programming standards) progress I have made. Put the effort in and learn a new tool. If you get stuck, there are loads of good forums to help you out, the same as they helped me (and continue to help me).

Blender is great for testing out simple ideas really quickly (like, in minutes rather than days).

[zero3growlithe]

Sure Blender is really fast to make something even with animation and some programing (saw it in action) but only if you know where, what is (in my opinion Blender's interface is bad).
Ok, program reviews on side and let's take a look on my track progress (59549 poligon count):

https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/PashtunWheel#5587740551856943282

Of course these "empty" buildings can be changed to something nicer8) (and i change them where possible)

[feisar rocket]

Does anyone have Chrome? If you do, try 3Dtin but, you need to sign up to export the file...

Ships; got a top down model of FEISAR and EG-X (mabey EG-X ( it looks like a Harimau))

Post time: Friday or Saturday.

[zero3growlithe]

Quite interesting, but working really slowly becouse of seperate objects used to draw object (good when i don't have anything to do during IT:g)

[feisar rocket]

Two buildings ( IDK how you add it into the tracks your making). Their not the best but, if you like them, I'll keep making them.:nod

[zero3growlithe]

I say the truth:
1st one is bad... nothing interesting
2nd one... better, i see where it can find its place:)
In my opinion you should keep making models, becouse the more you're doing, the more complicated and fascinating models you create:nod Just keep on going:rock

btw. Thanks to you i've downloaded newest version of Blender, and i saw a really good for eye interface that can move me to Blender (yeah, i'm stickler... it can't be helped :dizzy)

[feisar rocket]

I'm going to make the "stands" or spectator area (mabey 2)

btw, I'll continue making buildings for you guys.

P.S, tell me what type of building you want (dimentions) and I'll make it.

[zero3growlithe]

Type: Futuristic architecture with many strange shapes and advanced technology... that's it in short :pc

[MyNameIsBom]

my Internet won't be up until 9th of May so I won't be able to do anything until then...

[Rotational_aspect]

For those interested, here is a zip with some experiments I have done with setting up some gameplay logic in Blender (remember these are for 2.56a and above only).

Any questions, pop them here.

Cheers

[zero3growlithe]

Erm... i wanted to send Bom's track to the sky and... i went too far:eek
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/PashtunWheel#5588426901574589298

[feisar rocket]

Type: Futuristic architecture with many strange shapes and advanced technology... that's it in short :pc

Ok, I'll see what I can do.

P.S that sucks Bom, no net... well you have your psp and WI-FI, right?

[MyNameIsBom]

yeah Internet is slow as dial up :( it sucks, takes like 20 seconds just to load a page on this forum and my psp? I've "accidentally" broke it by throwing I against the wall.

[feisar rocket]

I've "accidentally" broke it by throwing I against the wall.

How come? What did it do?

[MyNameIsBom]

I got tired of psps because how many damned "artificial limits" Sony has put on the psp. iPod Touch made my psp look bad sooo yeah

And I made another track idea!!!
It's still in delopment, I'm going to attempt to draw more details on it, but I can't say it will be good :) lol

[feisar rocket]

Made two buildings and one spectator area.

Uploading: tommarrow or Friday.

P.S. Don't give up, keep pushing!! We will finish this project!!

[zero3growlithe]

Keeping project running = making progress in coding = learning programing, not only modelling (but maybe it's a good idea to complete all models earlier so we can focus all on coding... yeah, that's a good idea)

Ps. Nobody said that we are giving up, everyone do their best, mostly programers:)

[MyNameIsBom]

thats good to here feisar rocket!! I'll loved to see it soon.

another bad news, school is basically killing all my free time to help in this project and it's not a great thing. I made another track lol :)
Can't wait to upload them

[Xpand]

Me too, I'm going to use Rotational's files to try out some ships.

[feisar rocket]

Ok, I made a few tracks (3) but, their on grid paper. I filled in squres for walls.

Upload: later today

Why: netbook sent for repair. Coming back in a hour or 2.

P.S. I'm having problems making the buildings on Blender(made 1 of 3)

Upload: later today

[feisar rocket]

Upload canceled.

Why: I did not get back my netbook

[Rotational_aspect]

Got bored doing Blender so I thought I might exercise my artistic side.

[zero3growlithe]

Bom, could you make an nice sketch for the building that is after (deleted) loop?
(i mean spectators arena/place/building <- how to name it:g). My mind cannot seem to have anything nice... i'll keep thinking

btw. Track completion = 76%
EDIT: Argh, can somebody tell me why my tracks looks so clumsy!!! :bomb
EDIT2: I went forward with ship names like: Viper, Wave, Shark, Atlas, Beast (sounds weird/ deleted), Callisto, Tureis, Sirius (i think that 7 is enough). Looking forward for your ideas, and one question... can somebody make nice clouds for Pashtun Wheel? Thanks in advance:)

[feisar rocket]

Type: Futuristic architecture with many strange shapes and advanced technology... that's it in short :pc

The first one; the Icosphere is supposed to go around the center Torus (Ex. like how planets orbit the sun.).

How is the second one (quit.blend).I made a mistake though.

Any new building you guys want.:g

P.S. Zero, what program do you use?

P.P.S. Aspect, nice ship!!

P.P.P.S. Zero, I think new ship names ( Icaras, Goteki, Triakis ( spelled it wrong huh?)) should stay to show its still with the story.

[zero3growlithe]

P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.S It gotta to be completly new game, with new name (somebody got it already, don't remember who, but it is), new style, new ships, new tracks.


And why not just make something original rather than just copying what exists?


And i use Rhinoceros 4.0 to make everything:twisted

[feisar rocket]

Ohh, I see... but, I think... Ahh who cares! I get it, like a new series, right?

Well how was the building? Better than the first, huh?

New building request wanted! Please, I'm all ship/tracks for now...

P.S. (I use that alot, huh?) the tracks I made are not intence. It's more like flat rather than bumpy and hardcore. I also syncronized my work with Wipeout Fusion so, 1 track has 3 parts (Long, short and a special (depends on where it's located)).

[MyNameIsBom]

I'm on it zero!!
the sketch is going good but won't be able to upload anytime soon :(

Edit: I had to throw out/ get rid of my previous concepts because they were too complicated, e.g. manetic bits and loops and multiple paths etc. so I'll be starting new concepts soon.

@zero
The spectator area is similar to Chenghou Project shortcut bit, right after the double platform, after the Hairpin (sharp turn after the chichane) It's kind of like that but shorter/ more simple

[zero3growlithe]

@feisar_rocket Jup, this building was better, still made of simple shapes but that's good (i began with making a house of simple boxes:g). Most important now is that you are progrresing with your skills;)

@MyNameIsBom Ok, got it.

EDIT: I've made a video showing this track a little: VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHZT5y2sd4Y)
EDIT2: I've made team logos for those names i've invented:
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutTeams#

[Xpand]

:clap
I looks like one of those in pure's delta pack!

[feisar rocket]

Can't look at them due to Psp's ristrictions (stupid right, Bom! lol.)

Thanks for the compliment(s)!

Zero, Xpand, Bom, what's next?

P.S. No credit card = no rhinoceros. (Sorry, Zero.)

[zero3growlithe]

I don't have credits too, so i downloaded Rhinoceros from internet (yeah, i know :cold, but i must buy it anyway becouse i'm using it to other things too, for ie. lerning).
And don't forget, you can download a free fully functional trial of this program from Rhino's site just to check it out:g

[Xpand]

Here's some pics of the converted Atlantica track.
It's situated by the sea and it's shape blends with the terrain.
WIP:

[stin]

Just simply awesome and certainly alot of brainstorming!!!:clap

stevie:)

[zero3growlithe]

Looks nice by now, i wonder how far it will go with details ;):+

[MyNameIsBom]

I've made a track in 3Dish view, in ISOMETRIC view.

It's name is going to be either
a) Fallon 2
b) Genevis District
c) or your suggestions (I can't think of a good name at all!!!)

[zero3growlithe]

Before we can judge the name, we should see this track, becouse i think that name is connected somehow with track (i think) :sonar

[Xpand]

@zero:
This is what I'm trying to accomplish:
The concept drawing:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=203&pictureid=2302

The track isn't all textured, as you can see, and lots of buildings and details are missing...

Oh, and here's a track texture detail shot:
2313

[zero3growlithe]

Ahhhhh!!!:brickwall I remember that picture:g By the way:

My work progress:
Pashtun Wheel = Completed 91%
Alphard = Completed 54%
Kassite Locks = 6%
Corridon 6 = Pending conversion to *.obj/*.x

(yay:hyper somebody removed my double post :g)

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, got working gatling cannon, unguided rockets, primitive flamethrower and guided missle. Is fun making stuff go boom. Plus they all take off varying amounts of damage, which is nice.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Has anyone seen the track that I proposed? I have no idea where it is.

[Rotational_aspect]

I forgot to mention I have a semi-random looking AI working in Blender too. For those interested, I can post .blends when requested.

[Xpand]

If you please. :+

Gotta get the 2.56 right?

[Rotational_aspect]

Yes, these are all 2.56a files and I imagine they will not work in 2.49b. How are you getting on Xpand, have the Blender files I posted earlier helped any?

I will have to clean up the files somewhat as they are all WIP, but I will post them soon.

[Xpand]

Actually, I've been cleaning up the dust on my Atlantica track.. Converted it to 3ds max (it was in gmax format) so I can export to any file format I want.

[feisar rocket]

I just got rhino andddd, I don't know how to use it.

I'm happy we're making good progress( but I'm still at the paper stage, just moving into programming)

2 questions; will you ever use buildings I made?(I'm not mad.)Any new building specs or models wanted?

[MyNameIsBom]

actually I'm not leaving, I know boo hoo lol, So I can help!!! Yay??? no? :( just kidding!!!
this place is to good to leave :D

[zero3growlithe]

// Who said that you don't belong here?:blarg:eek You're registered here, you have friends here, and you don't belong here? Who wrote you that :bomb

EDIT: Erm, you confused me :dizzy

[MyNameIsBom]

@zero
nevermind now, the past are the past, we must not dwell over the past, we've got to concentrate on the future ahead!! The WipEout Fan Tribute game!! I can't wait for it to be done!!!

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: Here is the AI file. No interaction is required as it has 8 AI cubes racing round a track. If you need an explanation how it works, just ask.

feisar rocket: Not trying to knock you, but Rhino 3D is primarily a NURBS modeller, and is not a good game mesh making tool like Blender, 3DS Max etc, as it generates very complicated meshes.

It may be better for the track designs to go for Wipeout 3 /SE levels of detail to begin with, as otherwise people get carried away with minor details and not using polygons wisely overall. The simpler the geometry, the easier time you will have getting the game to run smoothly- remember you have to have AI, effects etc on top too. And dont forget textures- quite often they can and are used to convey more than simple geometry.

[feisar rocket]

Do you have any weapon symbols (ex. » = turbo)? If not I'll make some, well if you want me to...

Tracks: I made one, Bom style. W'O 64's kues ridge's starting and Droness (spelled wrong) multi-jump area + W'O 3's Mannor top's "air turns" (might be wrong track) + W'O Pure's Sebenco Peak's skinny turns and Climb's 3 turn area =_____

P.S. Bom your right, I can't wait to carry this to SONY if we are).

Names; (choose one/two)
Zetarra III
Staten Top
Hue Peaks
De Gamma
Sentil II
Any name you have?

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Does anyone still have a model of my track?

[feisar rocket]

Kinda quiet now... Let's break the silence!
Uploading (track name)tomarrow. Due to using Pre-FX tracks( no pure/pulse) more, it has a ***pit-lane.

track details;
start: Kues ridge(64)
dual sweeper: Sebenco Peak(Pure)
4/5 jumps: Droness(64)
jump turns*:Mannor Top(3)
blue** and final section:Sebenco climb(pure)

*= I made up that name.Why? When your in the air you need to turn.

**= add-on or long version

***= classic + old story touch = pit lanes (for classics only)

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I know this may seem like spam...but...
does http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2108&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1292482150 <-this ring a bell to track developers?

[Rotational_aspect]

For those interested: as I have been developing my own game I have come across a weird bug that does odd things to the material physics. Because of this, I have been playing with alternatives to the material physics and have found two other non-cheating ways to get antigravity using Blender.

1: Material physics (as used at the minute)

2: Constraint actuator > Force field (-ve Z) plus servo control (for simulating friction)

3: Regular motion (with a +ve Z push of 9.81 to get floating) plus servo control (for simulating friction).

If interested, I will post a blend as a comparison, and if requested I can go through teh pros and cons I have found so far.

[feisar rocket]

Track name needed...

Well Bom, what do you think?

Do you guys like it?

[zero3growlithe]

Confussed :dizzy
Name: Confussing Corners :brickwall

[feisar rocket]

Confussed :dizzy

Really? Fine, I'll draw it on paper but, do you like it?

I did not get confused making this ( well the connection of the long verson is confusing at FIRST.)

I'll repost without the long verson.

[MyNameIsBom]

its good feisar, but to be honest it is a bit long and lots of snaking area, I'll be lying if I say it was super good. It's up to my standard! :) And yayi will be able to up load my tracks soon, mu internet is going to be back up soon.

[Stingerblue]

http://i.imgur.com/gxg7Cl.jpg

You'll have to excuse me, I haven't done any map creation for some years. Used Google Sketchup. Haven't fully completed this yet.

[feisar rocket]

it is a bit long and lots of snaking area,

Ya, with the Long version (blue part added to track) it's too long (7.7 km), and I did add plenty of snaking areas. I'll upload one without Long version.

I can't wait to see what you made so far Bom!

Xpand/Aspect, is there going to be an 'endurance' mode?Why I ask? I made the best endurance track I can think of (19.2 km!!).

Blue (or Stinger), how did YOU do THAT! That is REMARKABLE!

[MyNameIsBom]

@feisar rocket
yeah I have lots of tracks made but I went down to only one idea, because some was a bit too long/ complicated/ it had mag lock areas and multiple paths, But i hope my undischarged idea/concept will be good, posting it on Saturday (GMT +12 time)

[zero3growlithe]

@Stingerblue, that is gooooood:):+ I really like it:pizza and welcome to Wipeout Zone;)

[Stingerblue]

Thanks :). Looks like its more suited for a FPS thou :S.

[zero3growlithe]

Nyah, i can see only a good track in it, nothing from FPS:cowboy

[feisar rocket]

It kinda reminds me of Mega Mall, Blue(or Stinger)!

P.S. Zero, is there going to be unlockables? Ehh, mabey not...

[zero3growlithe]

P.S. Zero, is there going to be unlockables? Ehh, mabey not...
Yeah, better not (except for ship skins & campign). If all of you would like to upgrade your ship for better speed, thrust, etc. then it can be added (it would be like an true FX league). For me this's a good idea

[tommyboy716]

Even though there may be Copyright issues This is a Very Good idea and has come a lonnnng way I do have a few suggestions.

Name the game itself WipEout Intensity or Nova or Shockwave. (not sure about the last one)

Have like a Sol 3 like a revamped version of Wipeout Pure's Sol 2 (I can help you guys on this one)

Finally I could Research a way to make the game Download able to a Playstation Portable but the game would need a lot of revisions.

[zero3growlithe]

We have already a name for game: Velocity: Evolution (i remembered it :g)
This game on PSP?.......... not with my tracks:paperbag

[tommyboy716]

I would like to have more than one way to distribute this. If we didnt go for psp (which I very much like to since if we were to do a PS3 version I wouldn't be able to play it. But another way we could go is the current program were using can be formated to play Xbox live. so it is very (VERY) possible that we could distribute this through Xbox Live Indie games and sell or give for free. Xbox allows people to do that in case you don't own one
Also its not like liverpool is using wipeout anymore. so It is possible to attain the Name in case you want to go that way

[Stingerblue]

The megamall was the inspiration (thou wanted to create something that didn't have a defined track).

@ feisar rocket, apologies, missed your reply. Just just tried out what looked best and built it up from that.

@ tommyboy716, that would mean Xna?

http://i.imgur.com/xPkALl.jpg

Renders (449kb-622kb each):
http://i.imgur.com/S4CsI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j3R8h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jvOVq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZJa7X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XkW1r.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nYkn7.jpg

[MyNameIsBom]

Too extreme tracks, zero?
Or my tracks design need editing?
Im uploading the concepts soon... :hyper

[tommyboy716]

well i thought most people used xna if not there may be a way to convert its format (by the way any ideas on a realise date even though it may be to early)

[feisar rocket]

How do you make good corners, Blue? I started making tracks with S.Up (Why? I want to turn my 2D to 3D models now.) Can you PM me how you do it?

Xpand/Aspect or anyone who cares, with classic combonation, I think pit lanes are good, do you? Or we're not at the "pit" stage...?

Mabey restore Hyperthurst... IDK, it just came to my mind...

My name = FEISAR rockets into the future...

[zero3growlithe]

I dislike pit-lanes....
@blue, :eek:clap

[Xpand]

Pit-lanes are unnecessary work in the prototyping stage...

Really cool blue!

[feisar rocket]

I see... how about hyperthurst?

[Xpand]

That might be easy to do.
Just adding a force to the ship when the key is pressed... And measure the amount of time the key is pressed and use that data to decrease the hyperthrust amount.

[tommyboy716]

Well just see what happens :D... im going to try to help in some ways also

[Stingerblue]

@ feisar rocket, sent pm.

@ zero3growlithe, thanks :).

There's sample code for a race game on the official website. Its a Microsoft Installer, its the demo and source code. The installer however checks if either Xna 3.0 or 3.01 is installed.

http://create.msdn.com/en-US/education/catalog/sample/racing_game

[feisar rocket]

I see, thanks!

I made a new track and it's confusing untill you think about Mega-Mall.

How many tracks do we have? How much needed?

P.S. do you have a HUD yet? I can make one and, a main menu.

[zero3growlithe]

I think that 12 is enough (with reverses 24)8)
About HUD and Main Menu... still waiting for something nice;)

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, this is a big rant post- so fair warning!

OK, pit lanes:

The code for recharging already exists, the pit lane would work (if you want to use the blender items I have) by using 2 more nav nodes and some logic-i.e:

if health>25 go to node 0 (i.e. start/finish line). if health <=25 go to node 13 and 14, then node 0 (i.e. travel down the pit lane rather than go across start finish line).

I like pit lanes- it means you don't get race leaders using weapons for energy and depriving the other chasing racers weapons that spice up games. Plus pit lanes are tactical choices: do you lose time getting energy or carry on with the risk of blowing up?

XNA:

Unless there is someone (there were a few here at one point) who is fluent in C there is little point in going down the XNA route, and most decide to make a game from the ground up in openGL. I chose Blender because everything I need is in one program. I keep on about this but it will make lives easier if tracks were made in blender and tested in blender (all the stuff I make I test about 20 times, and it takes seconds to go from making to playing/testing). It allows bugs to be worked out really quickly.

And why bother with XNA anyway? This is a fan project, so why not just hook up an 360 pad to your pc and play via the blender standalone? plus, blender works on Mac, PC and Linux, so its more cross platform.

Xpand:

Quick tip! For razor sharp AI handling try servo motion with only the forward axis enabled (e.g. x or y)- I tried this with the AI example and it has the advantages of physics plus little or no sliding!

Hyperthrust:

The way it could be done would be to have a specific key mapped to enable the hyperthrust (e.g.H, set to always true) hooked up to an AND plus a motion actuator with higher speed. You would have a property 'hyperthrust' defined (say with an interger value of 100), and have a property sensor hooked up to the AND that would be NOT EQUAL to 0. On the other side of the AND, you would have a property actuator set to Hyperthrust, ADD, and -1.

So what would happen would be that you have 100 hyperthrust units. As the H key is pressed, the property sensor will say this is not equal to 0, so H is pressed, property is TRUE so the AND fires and we get extra speed but the property actuator subtracts -1 per second from the Hyperthust property until it reaches 0., and stops working.

I am on holiday and cannot mock something up so I cant test this (I'm doing this in my head), but potential bugs may come from the property sensor set to not equal (it may not register and go below 0). This may have to be set to min/max or equal. Again, this is easy and quick to change/test.

Track design:

Again, if you want to see your tracks in use, get hold of a simple player control set up (from Xpand or others), import or make your track in blender/ XNA and press P (in blender) to play and see the weaknesses of the design- its that simple! Then tweak, tweak, tweak until it works. It is unfair to think that people who make the game work can make your track work too using what we have (i.e the Bullet physics from blender). Be proactive and help! This will annoy a lot of you but I get fed up of the 20 plus pages of track ideas and few people saying 'OK, now let me test this'. YOU CANNOT EXPECT A TRACK TO WORK JUST BY IMPORTING IT INTO BLENDER OR ANY OTHER PROGRAM! It requires days of testing- ever got annoyed at the random WOHD invisible walls? Or random physics quirks? YOU make the track, YOU test it! Some tracks here are very imaginative, but are way too complicated- work within realistic boundaries and go from there. As you play, in blender you can change so much so easily- don't like a wall? press ESC, move it and press P to test! Want an animated spectator ship to fly low over the track? Easy, create movement logic and again press P to test. Bend too sharp? ESC and reshape, press P....well, you get the idea. And as you understand the tools, you can then make tracks that are more daring and crazy, but with a firm understanding of what works and what does not.

If you don't understand Blender or XNA then learn! I went from nothing to what I do now in about a month. If you want this to work, then you have to put the effort in! And when it is finished, you have a new skill too that can be used for the future.

OK, rant over.....

[feisar rocket]

HUD and Main Menu... still waiting for something nice;)

I'll work on one.

Aspect, I see, if I make it, I test it... and you have a point with pits and being tactical.

[tommyboy716]

But if were all using different programs to create this game how are we supposed to smash it all together. from the Start we were using Xpa. and now were all switching it up with like google sketch up and other programs. Even though this may already be resolved I don't think another programs should be introduced unless we have already used them

[Rotational_aspect]

But my point stands- no-one has got the c experience to carry this off, the only reason anything is moving is because the vast majority of working components is in Blender. Aside from having an XNA template, what else is there to show for it? Can anyone actually modify the template to make it like WO (or understand how to change it?).

Again it goes back to what is realistically possible, blender is designed to be accessible for rapid game prototyping without coding skills. Aside from one script all my stuff I have done is with clip together logic.

[zero3growlithe]

I looked on this Pashtun Wheel project (any other name, or this one ok?), and i'm going to change it completely becouse i don't like it the way it is now (complete chaos:cold, and it's in space :blarg, and in a space ship :brickwall... OMG). I'll change design of this track, and i hope that for better.

Some images of Alphard & Pashtun Wheel (for rebuild):
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/WipeoutZoneTracksDesigns?authkey=Gv1sRgCK7a1YeQlrr K0QE#

[feisar rocket]

Ya, Tommy has a point... How are we going to put this together?

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, here is a quick question for everyone reading this thread:

Who (here) has the skill to use XNA to make a decent racing game? That is, an expert in C, .Net framework programming etc?

Unless you have several competent programmers then XNA will be NO use as XNA REQUIRES a certain degree of programming skill. If you choose this way then all you will have are pretty fly-throughs of tracks and nothing else. There are other tools like Unity or Gamestudio but again, they require C or C like scripting skills.

Now, the only program which is legally free and does the things we want is Blender. As I have stated to Xpand, I use this as it does everything I need in one package. You can model, texture, play, light and tweak all under one roof. The logic blocks are easy to understand, and when you become more confident you can augment this with Python scripts (but this is not required!)

And as I make the game I want I will share what I create/discover with you to make your vision of a WO racer real. These are the advancements that i have made so far (i.e. in a couple of months) from knowing nothing of Blender:

Path finding AI
Weapons (vulcan cannon, homing missile, rapid firing missile, flame thrower, tracking cannon)
Race start logic
Player controls
Advanced player movement (e.g. physics hovering, antisotropic friction)
Crude player position indicator
Health recharge (for pit lane)
Speed pads (Xpand did these and I learned a lot from this!)

I am currently planning a UI and ship select screen, titles, custom weapons loadouts and more.

Now, in that time, I bought one book re Gameblender and registered with blenderartists to use when I get stuck (which is often).

Now, has (or is) there an XNA game being made that no-one knows about? If you look waaaayyyy back there was a standalone OpenGL F-Zero style game being made with others stating they are doing the same thing. But they havent posted here for a long time, so there goes your C programmers.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, making a little ship move in Blender takes 5 minutes to do, and then you can test your tracks as you make them!

So why the resistance to Blender? 2.56a /2.57 RC2 are easy to pick up, certainly much easier than C or .Net framework. You can do so much with it but people here always write it off!

I wrote in this post that I would share what I discover with you all- but by the time I finish my Blender game (or get a functional prototype) you would have learnt to rotate a triangle in pure programming and have 100 track designs on paper (not to mention a thread with 100 plus pages).

So I say again, with the skills that everyone has, what can you realistically achieve? When feisar rocket stated how this is going to be put together, he hit on something which I have been going on about for many weeks- is everyone just going to hope someone can program for them or are they going to actually put some graft in and make things work? When people go on about using several programs to make things, I always cringe as they are using either hopelessly outdated programs or programs totally unsuited for making useable game assets. Rhino and Sketchup are NOT useful! If you go onto websites such as Polycount that have semi professionals, absolutely no-one uses these programs as the meshes they (Rhino or Sketchup) produce are messy and impossible to optimize. At the very least look at Modo, Silo or Milkshape 3D for low cost, professional 3D creation programs. Blender itself has a great set of modeling tools, so why not use them?

I dont want to bully people, but when people complain Blender is too much hard work to learn I get angry because its no more difficult than learning 3DSMax, Maya or Lightwave. In some ways its easier! And at the end you can make an .exe and sell it/ whatever!

[zero3growlithe]

I just don't have time for programing right now, modelling takes less time so i can make it between normal days (Monday - Friday) and whole weekend. I'll take C++ "under my wing" on holidays:donut
And i don't say that Blender is bad, or so hard that it's impossible to learn it, i just don't want to learn many programs (with higher difficulty) at once.
I wanted to learn 3DS Max but i hit my head and thought that "it's a bad idea for now, if i learned Rhino so much" (about 1,5 year of learning).
Furthermore i'm using it for other purposes too (enginering stuff, big halls), becouse it's still CAD software.

btw. Who knows XNA?:cowboy I don't...

EDIT: You have right with this leak of track designs, and i have some track ideas (4 for now). I'll make them in 3D and show them, and that will be my actual work. If you want to ask what about tracks for tests, then my answer is: I'll send you those tracks in *.3ds
(without environments and textures to prevent problems with export and to save my time, that i will spend later to export them anyway)

[feisar rocket]

I am learning how to make tracks with Blender but, its an older version (2.33)Is that TOO old Aspect?

To put things together, we should be using compatible programs. Like Blender import/export some file extentions, we should work around that. I do not want to restart on an other program.

I wish there was a way to turn the camera in Blender, just like SketchUp... Then I'll be pro, but for now, I'm an amature... (Kinda hard for a kid, huh?)

P.S. Like a fool, I'm going to try to learn XNA and Blender! :)

[feisar rocket]

Hey Aspect, can you send the speed pad and a few more logics... I'm becoming a beast with Blender!

Zero, how about you and I learn C++ together? (still trying to type something...)

Mabey if we use Python and understand it, transfer the shell to C++? If that can work...?

I'm making a track with Blender (lines first. Then, track. After, 3D!) and, it's coming good...ish. I'm also working on a weapon pad. I just need the weapons...

Mods, sorry for making 2 posts. The PSP has typing restrictions.

[zero3growlithe]

Sure, but before this happen you should know what i'm using:
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2128
If (you're ok with it);
then (nothing is on our way);
else (i'll check python, how it look like);
then (i'll try to learn it if needed);

[Rotational_aspect]

Blender 2.33 is too old, the latest build is 2.57 RC2, which has a few bugs but is much better. All my posted .blends can only be used with this version.

I cant post .blend files as I am still on holiday, but if you go back a few pages you will find some posts of mine with attachments to get you started (some AI, race start, recharge pads etc).

And I agree, Blenders camera is annoying! I wish they used the 3DSMAX way with the viewcube.

Blender imports (and I think exports) COLLADA files which are native to Sketchup. It is just more user friendly if you do it all in Blender as you can test the track as you make it, and ensure Blenders physics engine is OK with it.

[feisar rocket]

Can you get a "top view" with 2.57 and make lines have verticies?

Well time to learn 2.57... Ahh man, I got to restart. Well, I need to stay up to date!

[Rotational_aspect]

With NUMLOCK off:

I think num pad 7 is top view, but you can experiment. Numpad 5 changes between ortho and perspective views, numpad 0 cycles camera views, and the . numpad key zooms to the active object.

Common things I missed or screwed up:

To get blender 'game mode' go to the top menu bar where it has 'blender render' and click/hold to get a drop down to change.

To get game physics, its the last tab in the properties window. Sometimes its squeezed off the end so you may have to resize the menu horizontally.

Remember the difference between EDIT and OBJECT modes! In EDIT yo can select edge, vertex and polygon modes.

And under game settings, DEBUG and PHYSICS VISUALIZATION is your best friend!

By the way, if you go further back I did dabble in getting a good player control scheme. The ones I posted are a bit old, but they are good starting points.

[feisar rocket]

I see, thanks Aspect (you must be happy. A programmer rising from the ashes!)

Zero, dark GDK.
Aspect, it works with C++ (mabey you already know soo...) GO COMPATABILITY!!...
Yeah, back to what I was saying, I can download it this Friday and start from there. I'll also be working on Blender 2.57.

Now, I just need to learn the Python Shell...

[MyNameIsBom]

hey guys I now have more time to help you guys on the project,
Remember i can't do anything on the computer... (family problems)
I can only give ideas and draw them for you guys.
Let me know if you want another track idea.

@zero wow Pashtun Wheel looks sooooooooooooooo aweeeeesoooommme!!!! :hyper

[Xpand]

PLZ ANOTHER TRACK!!!

Anyway, I don't know if I should make original ships or use the same design as the Wipeout ships?


Rotational, I've been using some of your scenes. I still have to get used to the 2.57s UI and make the ships able to take sharp turns and stay on track during jumps or drops...

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: Post a blend and I will see if I can tweak the handling- since I posted most of the original stuff, I have learned what works and what does not a bit more. It may be a compromise in the end, with changes to the track as well as the handling. But we will see.

[Xpand]

I'd like to, but blender is going crazy! I have the 2.49 installed along with the 2.57 and for some reason I can't export nor import the tracks into 2.49. It shows me an error that never appeared when I try to run the import/export script...

Never mind... Gotta try and make it work some other way...

[Rotational_aspect]

Its best to separate out 2.49b and 2.57, or at least have shortcuts for both as opening files confuses the OS as both Blender exes are named the same.

As far as the AI goes, I've had a bit of a mixed bag:

The method that I have got going on works for simple flat tracks- however, since your track is probrably the most complicated it will see I tried it and it doesnt work very well, which is a shame as it should work in theory.

The problem I have is that its a trade off: dynamic/ rigid body gives nice motion but you then need a high friction value to keep ships in check, but when using servo motion it is the opposite: navigation is sharp but no good motion as friction is limited to the direction of travel. The tracks themselves may need special allowances too- tracks too crazy may have to be toned down.

I may have to go back to the drawing board on this one, which is depressing, or at least rework the method- unless someone else has been tinkering around too.

[feisar rocket]

I'm back, who cares?

I'll start messing around with the AI (2.49 or 2.57 Blender?). Mabey I'll be able to modify it...

I can't make my track for some reason. I think it because I can't make the vertices in the line.

Any tips or I should hop on google?

P.S. How far do you guys think we are in this game... Do we need a cover(I alredy drew it)... Eh, mabey we're not "cover" far, just multiple racers far, huh?

[jesse9705]

i think we should leave the cover until we have got the game down then we should focus on the marketing design and that

[feisar rocket]

I see...

[feisar rocket]

Aww man! Worst thing happend today, my note/netbook crashed today! Blue screen after Blue screen, talking about different errors each time! I kept trying to recover using "LG Recovery" untill the comp says, " backup.LBI is corrupted. Windows is shutting down", I think thats what it said. My programming went up in flames today!

Oh well, can I get an update on the game so far ? Can't program, so helping on the side lines is the best I can do...

[zero3growlithe]

How did you wrote that message?

[Rotational_aspect]

Chances are your work is fine. If you can take out your hard drive and connect it to another PC (you can get special SATA/ATA to USB cables quite cheaply) you can recover your work.

OK, game update. Been fiddling with the AI setup and I've had to make the folowing changes:

Each AI has its own chase target. This was a good move as it means when an AI crashes it doesnt get stuck so much.

Enabling servo motion z and y axis: this allows the AI to follow the curves of the track. It also looks like the ship jumps too.

Added a second property 'time': the AI setup works by detecting when a node is hit. Sometimes a node is hit too many times and gets confused. The timer stops nodes triggering twice in rapid succession, stopping most of these problems.

Reduced damping on material force: allows ships to ride more smoothly and not go through the track.

I made a quick oval track that has a steep hill and a shallow dip, and so far its working OK with 2 AI.

[feisar rocket]

I always use my psp except for weekends Zero. Aspect thank for update and tip!

Aspect, how did you make the track? Can you tell me? I keep trying with Ortho top view but, I can't make the verticies...

P.S. I'll just try safe mode with command prompt, I'm not a good programmer but, I'm a good hacker (well only for my comp...)

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, here is a run through of what I did for my latest track. (BTW this is with Windows, Blender 2.57 and top view).

First, new scene. Delete cube. Create Mesh>Plane. Scale (S) and type 5 (i.e. scale up 5 times). TAB (to edit mode), in the bottom middle there are three icons (vertex, edge, face) select edge, highlight an edge on the plane, press E (extrude), G (grab) and X or Y ( to pull on an axis). To make a corner, highlight edge, press R (rotate) and Z (rotation axis). Keep on using E and R until you have a track. To weld the final vertexes in place, highlight the two vertexes and ALT+M (merge, centre).

You should have a flat track by now. Tou can push up/ down faces using G (grab) to get hills/ furrows. In edit mode, press W > subdivide smooth to get a smoother track. To get track sides, highlight an edge on the SIDE (S) of the track and press SELECT > EDGE LOOP to highlight the touching edges in that loop (should go all round the track) use E (extrude) upward (press Z to constrain axis) and you have a rough but workable track.

I'm in a bit of a hurry so the instructions are a bit direct- but by using the basic skills above, tracks can be made quickly.

The other thing I would mention, does your computers bios work? If so, enable boot from CDROM and try a Live CD of Linux. Live CDs require NO install of anything, and you could attach an external drive to save your work before you reformat (which can be done using a Live CD too!).

[zero3growlithe]

To begin with, he must download Linux somehow from internet and burn it on CD (through psp i think that's impossible to burn it XD), but it's possible to reinstall windows without deleting anything from hard drive, so why don't you try that? (all files will be moved to "windows.old" folder). While installing there should be some options where you find this option to keep your files (i'm talking about Win XP/7/Vista)

EDIT: I think that i'm making to many things at once :dizzy, becouse now i'm making ships + tracks designs + Pashtun Wheel + Alphard + my normal work. Here's first ship: Tureis (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ2uuNfejdCrVw #5597665180116364658) (jup, really colorful and i made it in about 2h :g)
EDIT2: Ok, that one was too colorful, so i changed its texture to match ship's style: ATLAS (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ2uuNfejdCrVw #5597745815721712866)
EDIT (Round 3... FIGHT!!!) Simple drawings made in my book for learning english :g Simple (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5597758868791 644002)

[feisar rocket]

Thanks Aspect and Zero but, it's a LGX12. I have 2/3 (a C: drive partion) hard disks. Therefore, no CD drive. My net book has XP by;
Install by other computer then, put HDD into laptop

OR

Install via card reader or USB.

My net/notebook has a Linux based OS installed but, it can't run any programs installed in my Windows OS nor install anything new.
I'm going to use restore points to go back and avoid the error (safe mode booted up). From there, I'll attemp recover with my backup (backup.LBI)

[zero3growlithe]

Oh, so in safe mode download unetbootin and Linux Netbook Remix, using unet write it on your Pendrive (if you own one;)). After it's completed, restart computer and while booting press and hold Esc or F11 button to open up boot menu, there you should be able to chose Pendrive. After booting it up, menu will appear with options to: Install linux or LiveCD... hope that helps:cowboy
btw. My laptop is Samsung N110 10", and i'm making almost everything on it (i've made those ships), and my Windows 7 with Linux is working really well (even without antivirus ;))
EDIT: New ship: Tureis (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ2uuNfejdCrVw #5598045187383799042) (current version)

[feisar rocket]

Got it on! I just need to install blender and I'm good to go but, past .blend files deleted...

[Xpand]

Back from London! I have a few ships on the making, I'll post them here tomorrow.
They're a bit basic, kinda Pulse-ish models only for brainstorming.

[feisar rocket]

Xpand, how was it? Did you have fun? Aspect, do you know how to turn the screen? I do. Number pad: 8(orbit up), 4(orbit left), 6(orbit right), 2(orbit down). +Ctrl: 8(pan up), 4(pan left), 6(pan right), 2 (pan down).

Right now I'm working on a track (25% completed) Blender is pretty easy to learn. At first it looked hard, start messin' around and you'll get it. Aspect thanks for saying "...YOU make it, YOU test it..." now I have the skill :) :D! Again, thanks!

P.S. Xpand, I can't wait to see the ships!

[Xpand]

It went pretty nicelly! ;)

Now, here's one of them:
GX F362
2377
2378
2379
2380
2381

[feisar rocket]

They look bad... I'm just joking, They look awesome! :)! What program Xpand?

Update V.1 (why a version? There will be plenty of updates and I want to stay in order! Don't like it? TOO bad!) Track now crosses at different areas. I also need "pit lane" data. Can I have it please?

I'm having a problem making an upwards spiral. Why you say, because right after coming up, you have to go right down so you'll clear the brige!

[Xpand]

I used 3ds max 8.
I'll post the other two ships tomorrow.

[feisar rocket]

Xpand can you send the file? I want to try and put it with thd AI? It's a .3ds file right?

Update v1.1= half my track flew away yesterday so, I'm at sq.3 without sq. 1 & 2! Mabey it was too long...

sq.4 is up to Aspect, Xpand or me (to add AI...). Mabey not, I might have to do it... Dayum..

P.S. My 100th post! Ah yeah!

[Xpand]

Here ya go!

[feisar rocket]

We can use SketchUp because it exports .dae (COLLADA) files! Blender imports .dae files. Now, let's rock!

[zero3growlithe]

Ships models list update:
Atlas (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels#5597745815721712866)
Tureis (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels#5598045187383799042)
Callisto (https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/NewWipeoutShipsModels#5599246573923296930) *NEW*

[Xpand]

Those look really cool! They have a certain Fusion feel to them.
Edit:
Here's some other ships:
Two of these were done some time ago, in the early stages of this project:
Just need to find a way to export them to 3dsmax...

[zero3growlithe]

That's great that you're learning 3DS Max, and i see you've learned a lot after seeing those great made ships:):+ (but something seems wrong with AG-S :g).
btw. How's your Atlantica track? I hope you haven't thrown it somewhere where nobody can find it:P
My track's looks well (i'm rendering a fly-through of Alphard now, and i began reconstructing Pashtun Wheel... looks nice by now:rock), although i concentrated on ships concepts right now as you can see. (thanks for good comment:D, it keeps me working:nod)

EDIT: Woooops.... i think that in hurry i wrote something wrong up here XD But i'm sure you'll learn it :P

[feisar rocket]

Xpand what does 3DS Max export/import? Same for you Zero, what does Rhino import/export?

Anyone with the pit lane data?

P.S. How do you make nodes in Blender? I got a wonderful idea.

Report: AI Ver.3, good one but, everyone dies but that lonely red cube? AI Ver.2, is the best... I think.

P.S.S. I was busy this weekend with my cuz. He abused MMSF3. Therefore, fatal error according to the laptop...

[zero3growlithe]

https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3growlithe/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNLTttHbpPzySw#5558001872536 714738

[Rotational_aspect]

feisar rocket: Here is the recharge and speedpad blend, along with the latest AI.

Nodes are just blocks with a property and materials named in a certain way. However, all nodes need to be 'registered' in the chase target logic (the blue boxes). So if you had 30 nodes, you need to chain 30 track to statements. Also, node placement is VERY important. Too high,low, close to a bend and the AI will crash or do stupid things, so tweaking is essential. This idea sounds interesting- what is it?

3DSMAX imports/exports pretty much anything you like, as it is so popular you can easily get plug ins and scripts to do the task. Rhino I think does basic obj, dxf plus lots of engineering formats.

Xpand, zero3growlithe: Good ships everyone, keep going!

[zero3growlithe]

Here's my Alphard fly-through: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9BCabiRQDQ
btw. Sorry for glitches :|

[Xpand]

The "AGS" isn't really an AGS, it's inspired on it... The filename was just random.
The Atlantica is going well, I just have to find a easier way to texture the track instead of mapping every single section of it...
3ds max imports DXF, DWG, 3DS, OBJ, LWO, X and a lot others...

Btw Zero, what did you use to make the ship fly? The track looks really cool! It's a bit long, but that's my opinion and also Sinucit took about the same time to complete.

[zero3growlithe]

Bongo :g (seriusly)
Plug-in for making animations in Rhinoceros... free, fully functional (almost, becouse you can save only 30 times... believe me or not but before i reach that limit... i end up reinstalling windows :g (30x3 day trial)) <- 30 is such a popular number:rock

I can record a movie showing how it look like (tutorial)... it's easy like making images in "paint".
btw. Track is long, becouse i dislike watching same part of track again with <=> 20 sec delay... we check it out and see in practice:)

[feisar rocket]

Xpand/Zero, can you send a .obj or .3ds file of what you have and I'll send what I got.

Aspect, you know how W'O is anti-grav, now have the pit lane not connected to the track, you fly to the pits. I almost have a way for mag-locks to work and high-difficulty AI.

(side idea) Also, an area with no track (invisable), now only if I can do that.

Zero, Aspect & Xpand, using the AI with the ships and putting it on the track = trial version :D! I'll work on the BIOS, I joke, we're going to need python for it

[Rotational_aspect]

Aspect, you know how W'O is anti-grav, now have the pit lane not connected to the track, you fly to the pits. I almost have a way for mag-locks to work and high-difficulty AI

Thats interesting! What system are you using for mag locks, and have you an alternative AI system? Speaking of which, have you tried the latest AI I posted, is it any better than the others?

Plus, by BIOS do you mean the track/ship select screens?

Edit: just for a laugh (and seeing a small game with this working), here is an
'improved' AI version.....just dont stare too long otherwise you'll go blind!

[AceSnoopy]

Hi guys,

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but are you still developing physics in Blender? I've never got on with it and the stuff you've managed is awesome - but I don't think you're doing yourself any favours (@Aspect) by sticking with Blender for so long... It's great for rapid prototyping but really restrictive compared to fully fledged direct programming languages from what I understand and I don't think the stuff you get to work will be easy to port...

I'm not floating in free time right now but if you're looking to pick C++ up (and I'd advise it for a game project like this that will one day require some fast running code) I have some experience there and would suggest having a nose at these:

For Dummies Combined Desk Reference (http://www.amazon.com/All-One-Desk-Reference-Dummies/dp/0764517953) - Great reference book for language constructs

This OpenGL Tutorial (http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/opengl_introduction.html) seems to provide a pretty gentle introduction to windows programming, which is the most terrifying bit in my own humble opinion...

Alternatively, try learning FreePascal, which is similar to C++ in speed and syntax, and give the freeware Lazarus IDE (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/) a go, which will let you graphically create forms and cross compile to and from Microsoft and Linuxland! I found it when a company I worked with migrated to it from the (very not free) Delphi platform, and it's pretty great at everything besides multithread debugging.

[zero3growlithe]

As to what, i don't know anything about making games in Blender :g, but i'm going to learn C++ (DarkGDK <- check this out) when i get some more free time (holidays:))
btw. I also thought about buying one of those programming books (not listed above)

[Rotational_aspect]

Thanks for the info, AceSnoopy, but I'm sticking to Blender for the time being, only because at the moment I cannot spend long stretches of time learning C- bringing up 1 (soon to be 2) children, learning French when I move to France (within a year) means I get little time for anything! Blender is good because it is easy to do things even though it has limitations. Plus Python is easy to learn which will allow more things within Blender beyond the logic brick system- check out Yo Frankie to see what Blender can do in the right hands.

That is not to say I will never learn it: I came from using GameStudio which was Lite C (but at that point I found it too hard to learn)- I may go back to it someday. And limitations can be good- I do get a kick from making a logic brick machine work!!

[AceSnoopy]

Touche, Aspect!

I'll definitely make an effort to improve my blending sometime, and if you can pick up French and childcare C should eventually be a cinch! :g


To zero3growlithe, one thing I've found with programming books, now having a shelf full of crappy ones, is that online tutorials and experiments are nearly always better for picking up new stuff (what with being free) whereas it's really helpful to get hold of the kind of book you can go back and find a heap of individual bits in to remind yourself again and again. As a rule of thumb, I think I've regretted buying every computing book I have that a) doesn't have a good index or b) is structured as a long tutorial with an objective...

To be honest I'd steer clear of most of the "Game Programming" books as well since they often get preachy about things that can't be generalised to other game scenarios - but depending how much you know about the basics of structure of your average simulation program they might be useful.


Eitherhow hopefully at some point I'll pick the stuff back up and come help out properly, but for now it's pretty much exam studying time :D


PS:

Also is there any more readable way you could make known the general direction you're attacking the physics from? Even just a potted explanation? My ageing Blender 2.49 from the approved Ubuntu repository will only show me the static models...

See also "reasons I'd really like zero3 to steer clear of Micro$haft development kits, and want to know why they've stolen such a high profile open source acronym"... :P

[Rotational_aspect]

The physics is a built iin system called bullet that replaces sumo in older blender distros. As far as the approach, the ships are rigid body plus material forces to make them hover like they do. Its experimentation to get the right balance, something which is still ongoing!

Btw,all of the blends I have posted are for 2.57, and that is a massive improvement over 2.49b.

[feisar rocket]

Aspect, I did not use anything special, I thought leaving mag locks to AI to control your ship when you touch it and/or mabey use the magnetism force + turbulence force... To fly to pits is much easier, have a force field (mabey wind to propel you there) to repel you IF you try to fly away (or AI takes you back to track) Hi-AI; I have a racing line ready (In S.Up) , I just need to add the nodes to the .blend file (which I still have problems making) By BIOS, your right! track and ship screen. READ TITLE!!!