SONY to remove other OS usage in next update

[blackwiggle]

There is a "rumor" [atm] going around that Sony will be removing the ability of the old fat PS3's to run other OS's in the next system update.
It doesn't effect me but I know Problemsolver uses his PS3 for this purpose.

I'm not sure how true this is,I suggest you read through the posts in the link below.
http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3-General-Discussion/Rumor-Sony-to-Remove-OtherOS-in-Next-PS3-Firmware-Update/td-p/10241106

[ProblemSolver]

Goeff, one of the guys from Sony who officially maintains the PS3 Linux branch,
has written the following just a few days ago;



The feature of "Install Other OS" was removed from the new
"Slim" PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other
entertainment content.

Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
the support for previously sold models that have the
"Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will
not be disabled in future firmware releases.

-Geoff



I've some projects going on the PS3, one is based on fluid-dynamics, i.e. having
a backend that computes a finite-element solution of the Navier-Stokes equations
parallelized over all the SPEs. And another one is an optimized Linux for gamers
such that the PS3 can be used as a full-fledged desktop where you can do your
word-processing, watch videos, listen to music, and play lots of emulator games
and similar stuff. I'm currently building my own PS3 bootloader from scratch to
support booting of the main Linux system with a higher level of support. My
current core Linux system runs hell fast, it's about 3 - 5x faster than any
other PS3 Linux out there. Some weeks ago I finished the integrity of the DS3
controller, which can now be used via Bluetooth by just pressing the PS-button.
Additionally, you can also move the mouse pointer using the DS3. The core system
needs some more optimizations and adjustments before I can start to add tons of
software on top of it. At the end of the day you will be able to play your
favorite old-school games straight from your couch on your big TV in fullscreen
using your DS3 while having a powerful Linux on its back that boots-up once you
plug-in the USB-stick in your (fat) PS3 without being forced to format its HDD
or anything else! :D

Sony may possibly kill the OtherOS feature if they've found out a way how to
really break the system using the current hack. This may then rise an exception
which could invalidated the statement from Geoff. If this is the case, then my
Linux is history for the general public. I for on will not update to the new
firmware if the OtherOS features gets removed. In this case I would just buy a
Slim for gaming only.

[TorquedSoul]

ProblemSolver,

Can you recommend a scaled down Linux distribution (no X windows) for the PS3 that has network support that will run from a USB drive? I'm looking for something preconfigured that has little setup time.

Also have you tried to set aside any drive space (using the other OS installer) to access from the USB drive. While I dont want to install the OS on the PS3, I would like have some drive space available to dump data.

[ProblemSolver]

Can't really recommend. Most Linux distributions are blooded beyond believe.
Well, essentially, that's the reason I build my own Linux, to get a small and
efficient one. The only thing I can tell you is that there exists some small
Linux systems out there, mainly for PC, which can likely be adapted to the PS3
but this doesn't come for free. It somehow also depends on what you wanna do.

I don't really understand the context of you last paragraph. Can you elaborate?

[TorquedSoul]

regarding the second paragraph: I would like to access a linux partition on the the PS3 drive while booting from a USB drive. I was just wondering if you had done anything like that.

I would like to run small molecular simulations on PS3. I want the PS3 to handle all the processing in the background and view reports from my PC. There are USB drive versions of linux floating around, I'm sure I could adapt those to the PS3 ... I was just looking for a lazy approach first. I'm sure someone has done it already ... I'll just have to do a little research. Just thought I'd ask first.

[ProblemSolver]

Ah, molecular simulations. Sweet. Lattice-Boltzmann & friends can run rather
efficient in the PS3 due to their linear memory access.

For sure, one can access the PS3 Linux partition while booting from an USB-stick
as long as the booting kernel initializes the SCSI subsystem, scans for discs
and registers any device found, which is usually done by default.

[RedScar]

Navier-Stokes, O.O, *shutters*
You in the Aerospace Industry? I'm studying for my degree right now, havne't had to do any major CFD calcs yet, only 2d in Fluent with a NACA 4/5/6 series. I've heard of universities using multiple PS3 setups for CFD and FEM calcs, but never a single person :P. I do plan on doing some finite wing's in possibly Catia b4 the end of the year for a glider project I'm doing. Hell if I could get ANSYS for my system I'd be even happier.

You maybe will be getting a PM soon PS asking on some instructions :P

[yeldar2097]

So lost right now... o_O

Albeit rather interested :nod

I was planning on installing Linux on my PS3 in the near future, don't take it away Sony.

*Space reserved for insults should Sony follow through* :P

[blackwiggle]

Well it's happened .
I got a message when I turned on my PS3 that couldn't sign in till I downloaded the latest system update, so I downloaded it.
Then after it downloaded a screen came up saying that this latest update will cripple other OS usage on those PS3's that can use it.
It gives you a catch 22 choice on what to do.
If you don't install the update you can still use a second OS, or still have the ability to install and use a second OS,but you won't be able to do any of these things.
Sign in to the PSN ,use the chat function,use online features of PS3 format software, use PS3 format software and Blu-ray disc video titles that require system software 3.21 or later,use copy protected video off a media server.

So for all intended purposes, by basically crippling all the PS3's other functions to such a huge extent if you choice to keep an already installed second OS system, Sony has given people no option but to relinquish it.

[Rapier Racer]

Send thanks on a postcard to the nice chap responsible for the exploit.

[ProblemSolver]

A really bad day for all us linux / homebrew devs....

[AG-wolf]

PS; you utilize it to an extent that I doubt many other people would even consider lol :P do you keep a live print-out/graph/catalog/etc of all the data that you process or anything like that?

[yeldar2097]

What's the point in removing it? I know Sony has been making the PS3 worse and worse with the new SKU's to save cash and that but really? Removing something that a a fair amount of people/companies use for research or otherwise? Really?

:brickwall

[IH8YOU]

You won't be seeing me online until I get another HDD so that I can preserve that function.

Thanks a lot, Sony. :mad:

[AG-wolf]

It may actually flash some piece of on-board memory... I know when I've updated with previous system updates, and then told my PS3 to totally restore the system or whatever, it left me with my most current update version. You may not be able to get around it, short of simply not updating at all, and thus not being able to play online.

[ProblemSolver]

Just a quick hint.

You don't have to update to fw 3.21 to use the PSN. Just enter the following
DNS -- 67.202.81.137 -- into your PS3 under Network Settings. The server fakes
the authentication and hands the connection back to your PS3 shortly thereafter.
No proxy needed.


And this;

Amazon starts to refund for fw 3.21!


We are writing to confirm that we have processed your refund in the amount of £84.00 for your Order 666-5327564-4432412.

This refund is for the following item(s):

Item: Sony PlayStation 3 Console (60GB Premium Version)
Quantity: 1
ASIN: B0007SV734
Reason for refund: Account adjustment

The following is the breakdown of your refund for this item:

Item Refund: £71.49
Item Tax Refund: £12.51

[Ref (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20573361&postcount=2059)]

It begins....

[AG-wolf]

awesome thanks for the DNS IP

and what is amazon doing? Are they issuing refunds for people who bought an OtherOS-capable machine who have had the capability removed?

[TorquedSoul]

I expect this to get hacked.

[Rapier Racer]

Who knows what Amazon are doing, I bought my PS3 at launch I've had no refund? Not that I used the feature anyway.

[mdhay]

Got the update, now Borderlands keeps freezing halfway between loading my save. WTF is Sony playing at? :|

[AG-wolf]

probably get a bug fix in a day or two

[mdhay]

But you see, it only does it with one save - the first one I've ever made. I've had a look at the weapons I've been making, there maybe one that has a wrong part or something.

[ProblemSolver]

Just a quick hint.

You don't have to update to fw 3.21 to use the PSN. Just enter the following
DNS -- 67.202.81.137 -- into your PS3 under Network Settings. The server fakes
the authentication and hands the connection back to your PS3 shortly thereafter.
No proxy needed. ...
Doesn't work anymore. Sony locked that door as well.

[SaturnReturn]

That makes me sad. I don't even use the functionality right now but am against the principle of it being taken away from me.:( Well thanks for the tip for the time it lasted anyway PS.

[AG-wolf]

Did they ever give a real explanation as to why it was being removed, or was it just a general BS line to placate the public and convince them they didn't need it anyway?

I'm sure the loopholes a couple people had found were partially involved, but is it really that big of a deal? They had long since removed the capability anyway and the hardware revisions have changed to the point where any potential hacking prospects are probably irrelevant by now.

I'll echo you, Saturn, I don't use it but I see no reason for it to be removed. I'm not updating my PS3 until someone else has found a way to avoid the update. If I didn't mind having certain features removed, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble to track down an original model in the first place.

[IH8YOU]

So....

Do I Say (#*K it, downgrade my OS just to play Wipeout?

Or.... No (#*K it, I'm just going to buy another PS3 for Wipeout.

Seriously. :brickwall

BRB

[IH8YOU]

I feel so dirty....

PS3 #3

Downloading.... at least I can take 1.XX for a spin! Just like old times.

[AG-wolf]

wait...

1) you bought another PS3?
2) you can download an earlier version of WOHD?

I don't know which of these confuses me more... But considering I bought a second 360 because my first model is still Dashboard Version 7371, I guess I can't say much ;)

Are used Slims less than $200 yet? And I'm serious, you can still play the original version of WOHD? :D

[IH8YOU]

Yes - another PS3.

So I have one that's pre-YLOD (literally), one I refuse to update firmware on, and a slim for Wipeout.

If you download Wipeout HD from the store - you start off with 1.2X I believe. It's grand, sadly you cannot play online until you update to the current abortion.

It's a LOT more fluid and responsive, and even feels like more FPS - to the point it screws you up for a bit. But I've been able to best my previous TT and SL records on the first attempt with that older version. I like the old Zone better because it doesn't do the blinding white flash between colors like it does now. I'd kill to take it for just one more rip online - to see how I fare - but it kicks you from PSN until the game is current-rev. :frown:

[sh1kamaru-]

well, as far as I’m concerned I’m working remote and cannot boot my ps3 quite often, but I bought it to have it as a second computer last year…

I won’t update, won’t go online as well :/

@PS: I thought you were using a custom fedora like I*do, could you tell me more about your optimizations ? :) did you go for LFS or sth like that ?

[ProblemSolver]

Sony Sued For Removal Of Linux Support From PS3 (http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1086720p1.html)

It begins. :twisted

@sh1kamaru-: I did a LFS build for the PS3. Doesn't work out of the box for
a PowerPC (ppc64) target on a PS3, but it's not too difficult to resolve
all the issues. The situation becomes more complicated if you wanna target
an embedded device, for example a PS3 at boot time. This requires a different
backend because you have to link against very small libraries to keep the
file size down. The PS3 reserves only 4MB of flash memory for the OtherOS.


Since Sony has killed the OtherOS feature, they have reignited my interest in
hacking again. What drives me is to bring back the OtherOS feature and to
make the system open for homebrew, at best. I'm on my 3rd PS3 (lost two due to
the YLOD) and now I should buy another one such that I can play my favorite
game online again. How crazy is that?

I'm pissed that Sony has removed the OtherOS feature for no reasons. After
studying geohot's hack, I can tell that the hack can easily be fixed. The
hack became possible because Sony didn't obeyed the strict rules of the
PowerPC specification. IBM wrote that a hypervisor software must assure that
the valid bit of an entry of the hashed page table (HTAB) was set as
intended. But Sony's hypervisor doesn't check it. The bit is set in a
fire-and-forget fashion. And this is where the hack kicks in, i.e. the write
operation to invalidate a certain HTAB entry to memory is glitched and the
hypervisor doesn't now about it because it doesn't check whether the entry
was really invalidated or not. The HTAB is a critical hypervisor resource and
should be treated very carefully. IBM has stated this multiple times within
Book III of the PowerPC architecture.

Instead if fixing the problem, Sony wiped a whole community all of a sudden!
And this is something I can't tolerate. If my engagement, whatever, would
ever lead to any piracy on the PS3, I tell you, I don't fukkin care. Either
Sony brings back the OtherOS or they can all burn in hell.

Well, there is even something positive about this. All that hacking stuff fits
quite nicely within my interest in embedded Linux. I currently read some
additional PS3 related papers (hardware specs, etc) on how certain things
work at the lowest / hardware level. For example, I do now understand how the
PowerPC boots up in hardware, i.e. how everything is initialized, how the
privileges are set, and in what state the processor is in upon executing the
first user instruction at the reset vector. Sony's hypervisor software relies
on certain features of the PowerPC architecture like logical partitions
(LPAR) and certain privilege registers within the processor. Understanding
these features is essential in understanding the operational environment of
a hypervisor.

Further, over time, I became interested in hypervisor software itself. The
whole concept of a hypervisor is a very interesting subject of its own. It's
kinda of the future to improve utilization of computational resources. IBM
and Sun have introduced this concepts some years ago and the PowerPC supports
it quite well. That means you can essentially write your own hypervisor for a
PowerPC processor as along as the processor in question supports LPAR. Sony's
hypervisor, the one that is in control of the OtherOS and the GameOS, is
called the level 1 (lv1) hypervisor. It is loaded into memory by a meta
boot loader (chain loading) in a secure way.

Some background.
A LPAR is a logical partition of the PowerPC processor composted of some
virtual processor resources. The PowerPC processor allows to virtualize
itself such that you can set up multiple unique partitions. For example, you
can set up two logical processor partitions and run on each partition an
operating system independently of each other and at the same time. Each OS
thinks it has the whole system under its control but in fact sees only a
perfect illusion (the LPAR). The hypervisor takes care of scheduling, access
protection, and stuff like that. And this is essentially how the OtherOS
works. The OtherOS is just a LPAR set up by the lv1 hypervisor. There is no
direct access to the hardware of the PS3 under PS3Linux. Each and every
access to a physical device goes through the hypervisor by submitting a
so-called hypervisor-call. And that's also why you can't read the GameOS
partition located on the same HDD under PS3Linux. In fact, you can't even see
it. And there is no way for PS3Linux to find out. Each HDD access goes
through the hypersivor and the hypervisor blocks out the GameOS partition and
many other things like for example the RSX processor, i.e. 3d acceleration.

Anyway, I hope the lawsuit will bring us back the OtherOS feature. Believe!
I'm just interest in homebrew and stuff. I don't have any interest in piracy
or whatsoever. The OtherOS was a key factor in buying a PS3, for me.

[yeldar2097]

Wow :eek

PS has spoken http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/TV-and-Movies/yoda.gif (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-TV-and-Movies-Smileys.html)

[XBARNSTERX]

Hmm, i understood about 10% of that lol:beer

[ProblemSolver]

;)


At all those who wanna keep their OtherOS and who wanna play WOHD (offline)
any further; Do not download the 2.20 patch! Once the patch got downloaded
you have to update to firmware 3.30+ if you want to start WOHD (PSN version)
ever again -- killing your OtherOS in the process!

[AG-wolf]

"do not download the 2.20 patch"
Do you mean 3.20 patch? or is 2.20 a patch for WOHD?

[mdhay]

Yeah, he means the WOHD patch.

[AG-wolf]

Interesting... I'll have to unpack my ps3 and hook it back up to check what I'm at right now. I remember explicitly not updating the system to 3.20 when all of this first started, and I was able to still play WOHD offline... I should be okay I imagine, right?

[JABBERJAW]

hopefully they will allow it again eventually. and they generally lose lawsuits like this. I actually wanted to do something with other os, BUT I am unfortunately at 3.3.

[BulletWraith]

any updates on this situation?

zer:donut

[JABBERJAW]

IF you already had another os installed, does the update remove the ability to use it?

[Darkdrium777]

Yes, it specifically warns you that installing the update will remove any ability to access or modify the OtherOS and it's hard disk partition.

By the way, this update already happened just in case you didn't know ;)

[ProblemSolver]

An update on the issue;




All OtherOS Lawsuits consilidated into one, now ready to be fired at Sony
by Zeus
Published on 07-21-2010 09:34 AM

Maxconsole has just heard some breaking news regarding all the OtherOS removal lawsuits filed against Sony. They have all now been filed into one consolidated class action complaint and a co-lead counsel will be taking over things in the US. So the sequence of events will go as follows - the consolidated action will be filed by the end of the month, Sony will respond to the complaint and things will return to court in September to see what happens next.

Here's the information a source received from a legal offering (who has given to us and wishes to remain anonymous):

In essence, the claims in these cases are that Sony Computer Entertainment of America (“Sony”) falsely represented that PS3 purchasers would be able to use their PS3s as a computer by installing another operating system, such as Linux. In a recent firmware update, Sony removed the ability of consumers to utilize this feature. As a result, seven class actions were filed against Sony in federal court in San Francisco, California.

We are pleased to announce that, at the request of all counsel, United States District Judge Richard Seeborg has consolidated all of the pending class actions against Sony relating to "Other OS" litigation into one action. As part of that consolidation, the attorneys in the consolidated actions agreed upon an organizational structure to prosecute this action against Sony as a united front. At the request of all of the attorneys, Judge Seeborg ordered that three law firms with offices in San Francisco where the litigation is pending will serve as co-lead counsel (Calvo & Clark, LLP; Finkelstein Thompson, LLP; and
Hausfeld, LLP). We are also pleased to announce that Meiselman, Denlea, Packman, Carton & Eberz P.C. has been appointed by the various plaintiffs' law firms as the firm responsible for acting as a liaison with you and other potential class members. Please don't hesitate to contact us with any inquiries you may have concerning the litigation, and we will periodically update you as developments warrant.

The next step in the litigation is to file a Consolidated Class Action Complaint, which we anticipate filing by the end of the month. Sony will then respond to the Complaint, and we will return to the Court in September to discuss the next steps of the litigation.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions or concerns. In the meantime, if you have documents related to your PS3 purchase (receipts, boxes, etc.) please retain them.
[Ref (http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?41318-All-OtherOS-Lawsuits-consilidated-into-one-now-ready-to-be-fired-at-Sony)]

[Temet]

Ok, my point of view as Linux user and PS3 gamer :
- PS3 as a terribly poor RAM capacity... from what I've heard, the experience with linux on PS3 is far from good;
- all of you have a real PC, with 1 GB of RAM or more... so if you want Linux (yeah, something like a real OS :rock ) , install it on your PC !


The idea of Linux on PS3 is good on the paper, but the hardware is not build for it ;)

[KIGO1987]

The PS3's 256MB of RAM is next to useless. Bloody 2001 tech there. Was Linux on the PS3 slow?

At least a GB or two of RAM would do. Thats what the slim really needs.

[Temet]

1 GB is enough, my Desktop runs very smoothly a desktop environment with 3D effects with 1 GB of memory (a good old Athlon XP 2600+ :g ).

[ProblemSolver]

@KIGO1987:
More main memory is always good, but lots of memory isn't worth anything if
the bandwidth isn't heigh enought. The Rambus XDR chips inside the PS3 in
conjunction with the memory bus do deliver 25GB/s. Show me a PC (any PC) from
2006/7 which had a memory bandwidth of 25GB/s. The average PC bandwidth was
6GB/s.
The higher bandwidth is needed to keep all the units (SPEs) feed with data.
It doesn't make any sense to have a many-core system if you can't bring in
the data fast enough. Guess why Larrabee has failed?
So the XDR memory within the PS3 isn't your standard DDR2 memory you see in
any PC. But even 512MB of main memory won't help PS3 Linux that much. A fully
addressable RSX under the OtherOS would boost the system performance much
more -- out of the box! The system would be much more responsive and all the
rendering stuff would finish in an instant. You have to know that the entire
windowing system (the head of the X server) is entirely rendered in software
putting the CPU (the PPU withing the Cell processor) under an additional
(unnecessary) load. Take your graphics card out of your PC and disable any
on-board rendering support, I tell you, Windows 7 would run 10x slower on your
whatever many-core system with x GB of ram compared to a PS3 running Yellow
Dog Linux. ;)

@Temet:
What you describe is the most misunderstood thing about Linux and the OtherOS
feature on the PS3. This feature was never meant to give an average gamer a
Linux system to be used as an replacement for any PC Linux / Windows system.
It was clear from the beginning that a running Linux on an x86 PC with x GB
of main memory is a much better system for the general task, esp. after it
was known that the RSX cannot be addressed fully under the OtherOS.

So if you follow no interest in any technical aspect of the PS3, i.e. in
operating systems, in new processor architectures, in embedded systems, and
in programming such systems, then the OtherOS feature is not for you. If you
just wanna watch your favorite YouTube videos or play you favorite flash
games, go use a PC.

The OtherOS feature was never target to the average gamer, it was target to
all the computer programming hobbyists and enthusiasts. With the OtherOS
feature Sony has followed a long tradition in supporting all those enthusiasts
starting back in 1997 on the PS1 with Net Yaroze followed by the PS2 Linux Kit
in 2002 and the OtherOS in 2006/7 for the PS3.

[blackwiggle]

Looks like we have Linux back.
Watch the 3rd video to get a understandable but much shorter version of what's happened.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/29/hackers-claim-discovery-of-ps3-private-key-enabling-unauthori/

Only Sony could stuff up the most basic step in the PS3's security, that's make something that is supposed to be a random number, actually the same number all the time.

I love the trophies popping up. :lol:lol

Is that Problemsolver up there making this presentation?

[mdhay]

Interesting vid, thanks for that.

[Jav]

Aye watched it yesterday, funny presentation, and just how stupid are Sony... xD

[Dan Locke]

Just saw this in the comments section:


I wonder if we will see games running off the HDD soon.
http://i.imgur.com/qYsAe.jpg

[Darkdrium777]

Is that Problemsolver up there making this presentation?I don't think so but I bet he'll be one of the first to jump on whatever comes next after the work of these guys.

[Jav]

I dunno it's still risky, if Sony manage to fix it somehow I reckon you'd be screwed. Don't think PS is gonna take the plunge.

[blackwiggle]

Problemsolver posted a technical post around 6 months ago [not in this thread, can't remember where it is :|] on how he reckoned this would happen, and it's pretty much identical.
That's why I thought he might have something to do with it.

[Darkdrium777]

I dunno it's still risky, if Sony manage to fix it somehow I reckon you'd be screwed. Don't think PS is gonna take the plunge.According to hearsay, this hack this time is truly 100% unfixable... and potentially undetectable. I say wait and see, but with how all of this happened I'm sure they've got something bigger than PSJailbreak.
And PS has two PS3s, one of which he kept strictly for Linux. If what these guys say is true and that they managed to get OtherOS working on slim PS3s, well then for him it means that he can keep on using Linux while upgraded.