Forget ship stats, what the ships are really good at.

[Aeroracer]

Ive been playing wipeout for quite a bit now....

Im starting to come to the conclusion that the stats on the ships really dont give a good indication to the real properties of ships..

this is what i think about some of the ships at what they really are good and bad at..its only my opinion i cant prove any of it ..its just what i feel.....

i would like it if people put forward their views and opinions to see if there are any similaritys betwen what we all say..

this is what i say

pirahna fury is.....
fast off the line
pretty fast on a straight

but its real speciality is on a collision and bash with a ship it appears to really come off the better almost like its really heavy and holds its ground..where in a harimua i always lose out on a collision.

its weakness is stability and cornering like a wardrobe on ice unless you are really used to using it..

Triakis fury

really brilliant on shields
sluggish
but holds the track well and very stable and good on racing lines in its only little way.

harimau fury

pretty nippy
average acceleration
it wins hands down on control and fine racing lines
its loses bigtime on bashes with other ships

AG systems fury/hd

is a harimau with better acceleration but they make it bob and bounce more on bumbs in the track so not to make it a better ship.

Qirex fury/hd

a complete all rounder with no weakness and stregnths a good little ship

mirage fury

A good ship in all ways apart from its over sensative to use so therefore to be good at it you need to dedicate time to get use to it.

feisar fury/hd

bigget strength is sharp turns
biggest weakness is its weak and seems to be knocked all over the place by most ships.

the other ships i couldnt really say as i havnt played them to much..

remember this is just my opinon based on my experience....:nod

[SaturnReturn]

Think you'll have to specify HD or Fury, or both. There are a lot of differences between them IMO.

[Aeroracer]

lol....forgot..ive done it now:nod

[yeldar2097]

I'm pretty sure one of the devs mentioned the ship characteristics/stats once. I think it was vaguely relating to triakis being nerfed in a previous wipeout (pure?) due to one of the hidden stats. Something along the line of there are 4 basic qualities (3 of which are just quantitative shenanigans I.e. Shield, speed & accel (for the most part) and then there are a great deal more other properties which give each of the ships their characteristics (was it 12?)
I'm making a mess of this...saturn, get your quote on / find that post for me :p

also agree with sat that excluding zone there should be both versionsof the ships in the list. Some fury ships are VERY dissimilar to their fury counterparts :)

[Aeroracer]

no yeldar you make perfect sense..

i remembered what you are talking about..and those hidden stats...

basically the stats we see on the ship select screen dont mean zero as the hidden stats really can make a massive difference..

and and two ships that read to be similar by those 4 stats are really completly different in real life..

[blackwiggle]

If I remember correctly the SL explanation was craft weight to thrust ratio ,and where on the craft the weight was situated [center of gravity] that effected it's overall handling.

IE: If the rear of the craft swings out or the front of the craft was slower to respond to quick changes in steering.

[SaturnReturn]

Well I thought we were forgetting the stats? But here it is anyway.
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3818&highlight=triakis+supership

So what are the ships good at eh? Well anything with thrust is good for people to use the thrust and run tactics. AG-S seems a favourite of those who use this tactic. It involves getting ahead early, and then dropping every set of mines and every bomb you pick up. It's an excellent tactic for winning. It's also an excellent tactic for putting a lot of people off playing online. The other problem with they Fury AG-S is that it now has almost as much thrust as the Fury Goteki-45. This, coupled with that 5% thrust meaning nothing when lag gets involved, makes the G-45 almost redundant as it's handling is much lower, except for the fact that G-45 rules and AG-S feels twitchy, slow, sterile and boring to some (i.e. me).

Icaras is good for catching up. It's fast and reasonably nimble and if you can do a lot of barrel rolls and stay alive, then getting knocked off track at the start of the race doesn't have to mean coming last when in Icaras. It doesn't in any ship, because anything can happen, but I find Ica really good for chasing people down. Fury Icaras is good too but not as smooth. Generally they both provide a feeling of speed which a real joy and is absent in most other ships. It's just a shame I get pwned so much in them when online.

Harimau Fury is good for providing a fast option to those who like good handling. It means we are now less likely to see AG-S filled rooms. In fact, all the Fury ships, while being quite annoying in some ways, have brought a bit more balance to the options, and therefore more variation, which is great.

I haven't used them a lot, but I also think Qirex and Assegai have switched places with the Fury update. Assesgai was always really slippery and its centre of mass was around it's arse, so you had to slide its backside around corners. Qirex was always very stable and a joy to fly. Now the new Qirex feels slippery to me and the Fury Assegai less so, although still more like HD Assegai than Fury Qirex is like HD Qirex.

Piranha HD and Auricom HD were always good for stability, momentum and looking studly and well hard at the same time :D, but I never thought either of them was quick off the line, which is as their stats would suggest. I haven't really tried Fury Piranha though, so don't know what that's like.

[billychanxtr33m]

nerver any love for eg-x... :'( thats ok, it makes me feel special online

[Koleax]

I'm very interested in these hidden stats. Perhaps we could compile a FAQ where each ship's center of gravity is, including its weight and weight/thrust ratio.

If I am not mistaken, Qirex HD has center of gravity closer to the front, such that it's more likely for the ship behind you to lift you up off the track by wedging its nose underneath. This is generally fatal on bumpy uphill turns, like in AP Reverse, CP, and Sol 2, where it can cause a respawn. If it is not Qirex HD, then it is another that behaves like this.

EG-X makes the best-looking Zone craft, so there's that stat. :)

[Aeroracer]

nice post saturn..intersting info :nod

[IDReaper]

EG-X actually is one of the more interesting feeling ships in the game to me. It is very stable in its handling and when I use it I find myself hitting my lines more consistently. You really have to tell it where you want it to go, it's like a car with no power steering lol. It has a very raw feeling to it. It also feels like the air brakes slow it down less than other ships to compensate for having to drive it with a heavy hand. I also think it feels like it has a lower/centered center of gravity even with the massive rear end. Despite the low shields I find my best performances with EG-X are on mid to high complexity tracks where you can not so elegantly power through tight sections using walls to avoid getting shot. The only downside is the fairly low shields that betray the pilot on the tracks it is best suited to if they start to lose it. It fills the niche for pilots who want a ship with good speed/accel and greater stability.

[aethernet]

One thing I notice when racing G-45(F) against Icaras(F or not), and this describes about 99% of my online racing experience, is that if my turn is not super tight on tight turns like the 2nd to last bend on Talon's junction or the first left on Chengou Project, and if an Icaras does a tighter turn than I do, which results in them ramming me, they will slam into me and rape me. On second thought, this might not have anything to do with ship statistics.

[yeldar2097]

You really have to tell it where you want it to go, it's like a car with no power steering lol.

Best...Simile...Ever

+100

[billychanxtr33m]

nice eg-xplaination IDReaper! i find the ship comfortably stiff without being awkward to fly like a triakis or piranha

[Amorbis]

I wouldn't say that Fury Piranha is fast off the line, it's quicker than the HD counterpart but it's nowhere near Goteki 45 when it comes to getting a good start. I use Piranha because of the momentum, stiff racing lines and the shields. It takes a lot to turn but it makes getting the line perfect that much better, plus you don't have to be too concerned about using the air brakes as they help you glide around those tight bends. Piranha is a racing ship, it hasn't been built for time trials. Doesn't stop me from trying though. :lol

I think collisions have little correlation with the ship stats, a Piranha will get pushed around by an Icaras all the same. I don't know what the deciding factor in that is.

[OBH]

plus pirahna+ is good at getting the ladies clothes on the floor :beer

[AG-wolf]

Qirex HD is good at...
.
.
.
.
.
.
Lookin' sexy. ;)
But seriously, I've gotten accustomed to its mediocre speed just because of how much I love the ship design itself. It's really too middle-of-the-road to be phenomenal at anything in particular, but I suppose that's where better piloting compensates. It seems to have a sturdy boost with either the power-up or BR, though. Qirex Fury is much more slippery/twitchy... I would have rather it gotten a whole point increase in speed and thrust, and LOST one point on handling. It's a tolerable alternative if you can get used to the new handling, it seems to hold its own against traditionally faster ships like Piranha and the ones with better accel like AG5 and Assegai...too bad the new design is ugly from the rear (the only angle people wee of these ships when they play lol)

I think it's been said before, but Auricom HD is really stable, heavy, and fast. it takes a strong grasp to make it do what you want, but the payoff is awesome (like Qirex in XL/2097, and WO3). Auricom Fury is neurotic...

[Whizawk]

Auricom is a good example of an American muscle car, but the ship that has the best feeling for me has to be EG-X. It's just the way it cuts through the air on the tracks, and handles the bumps - nothing really goes wrong track-wise.

It's so elegant in the way it banks for turns, and handles the intermittent up & down sea-like handling with the bumps.

Nothing else in my life has been so hard to describe. :eek

But here's some examples on what I mean with elegancy & EG-X:

- Refined and tasteful in appearance or behavior or style.

- Displaying effortless beauty and simplicity in movement or execution.

- Suggesting taste, ease, and the attribute of being unusually effective and simple.

That's what I think EG-X's hidden stat is. :rolleyes:

[Whizawk]

Statistically I think Qirex & Feisar are a bit overpowered, but that's just my opinion. :?

[yeldar2097]

Please tell me you're talking about EG-X and not EG-X+. I can't stand the fury version :(

[Aeroracer]

cant someone ask paul tweedle..i think i got the name right..he is a member here and didnt he help make wipeout..

he left SL maybe he will just give us the list of stats so we can see what the ships are really like and settle the curiosity ..

maybe i can ask but i think it would be better if someone who knows him well would be better....:redface:

[AG-wolf]

Statistically I think Qirex & Feisar are a bit overpowered, but that's just my opinion. :?

How are they overpowered? Feisar is the perpetual beginner's ship, and if anything Qirex is underpowered o_O

[blackwiggle]

Paul hasn't visited the forum since mid Oct last year and has left SL,or what was studio Liverpool before the purge.
I'm not sure that anybody that has worked on HD/FURY, or any of the older wipeouts for that matter,that are still working at SL would know the answer to this question.

Best bet would of been Darkdrium [now banned]as he tended to get right into the technicalities of the game at that level.
Maybe Elhabib or Hellfire might have be the next best bet [probably the only others], as I know one of then did some actual tests with the craft on performance levels.

[LOUDandPROUD]

Hey, now, AG-wolf...Feisar a beginner's ship?! I resemble that remark! :P

Having said that, I also disagree with it. Just because Feisar is statistically the best handling ship, does not mean it's the easiest to handle...especially for a beginner. It's light, floaty, lacks stability and cannot be muscled around the track...it must be finessed around it. Not to mention you're not going to win a single collision war...try to bully another ship and you are guaranteed to pay the price. It's not a ship that's easy to master, for those reasons. I know I've spoken with folks who specifically noted that they can't use Feisar because they are just all over the place with it. AG Sys or Mirage are examples of ships that are more user-friendly to a beginner, as they both handle well while being more stable and easier to maintain proper lines with than Feisar would be. FYI, I'm referring to the HD ships, not Fury.

As far as Fury Feisar, I've put in a lot of time with it and, while it's nice, I've gone back to solely using HD Feisar. Why? Well, the Fury Feisar's increased top speed and thrust is cool and all, but the ship is heavier and more stable now. What does that mean? Isn't that a good thing? Well, it means it doesn't get as much air as HD Feisar, resulting in me being unable to consistently pull of BR's in spots I used to be able to with relative ease...and believe me, I need all the air I can get, as my thumb isn't as quick as you freaks who can BR off of the slightest of bumps. And I mean freaks as a high compliment. :) One of the spots I'm referring to is over the top of the final hill on Sol 2 Reverse. Even hitting the speed pad right before it, I was struggling to BR...not so with HD Feisar though.

Anyway, that's all I got. Feisar is my ship and I love it. It's the only ship in the game that can forgo the use of airbrakes in some spots where any other ship cannot...albeit with the use of great finesse. ;)

[Aeroracer]

deleted comment cos i got it wrong..

[OBH]

personally i think feisars a tough ship to learn as you need perfect lines. Except, of course, tracks like sol 2 and sebenco where the little blue ship is king.

Glad to see Auricom+ got a mention. A great ship topped off with pimpin' looks.

[Kyonshi]

Feisar is the best ship to develop reaction time. As it supposedly "unstable", you have to steer it perfectly to maintain a decent racing line. On the same note its the best ship to reajust mistakes and under/over steer in a second. Its at the same time a beginner and an expert ship. It just does it all :D And now with 80% top speed, its a divine ship! Put good Thrust and Shield in the equation and you have the perfect winner.

The gravity center is also that; centered. The whole ship turns and react, neither the nose or tail is slippery or sluggish. This is the ship that allows the best racing feeling, that allows you to bound with.

[LOUDandPROUD]

@ OBH & Kyonshi - EXACTLY!!! :+

(except that I don't consider the Fury Feisar to be "divine" for me, for the reason I stated in my original post...everyone is different though, of course)

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Since L&P wants me to chime in because the recent posts are on Federal European Industries Science And Research,I'd as well..
I must say that I have loved FEISAR since I played 2097/XL on the Saturn. I prefer using the FEISAR Chasis Mark 3 because of its agility(handling),and since I know how to pilot the ships,I am not considered a newbie.Yes,its speed may not be so good,so what?What is the use of speed when your ship has a bigger turning radius and it cannot even maintain that speed?
Well,I cannot say ant=ything else except that it has waaaaaaaaay superior handling.

[ksc6000]

I still haven't found MY ship in this game.

But does anyone have a certain ship they always use? Or does it change depending on what course/speed level you're playing?

[SaturnReturn]

@ksc600: I'm pretty sure there are enough favourite ship posts/topics around. So if that is essentially what you're asking, then to avoid taking this thread off topic and repeating information that is already available, please try a search.
For example, this one would seem perfect and results from a very quick search:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6752&highlight=Favourite+ship
Here is another along similar lines:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5906&highlight=favorite&page=2

[Whizawk]

I find that Auricom/+ has the best feel for me as its lack of turning ability helps the ship on faster speeds which makes anticipation more accurate, it also turns very smoothly. The downside is that it glues to the walls; a bit like piranha and has a big issue with recovery after hitting a wall or being shot. Nevertheless it is a great ship and the unecessary rareness & unpopularity with the ship makes people pull funny faces when they're beaten with it.

[gordo1974]

I think I'm still on topic here, as the thread says "forget stats, what are the ships really good at". But, anyway.
I've always been a furymau boy for TT (mirage for running into mines in single race), but recently I've tried G-45. Now on the slower speeds, flash for example, I really wasn't a fan. Dragging its fat carcass round CP was a bit of a chore and I found Icaras (being lighter I think) felt more responsive. Certainly for TT I was underwhelmed by G-45.
Rack it up to Rapier though, and suddenly G-45 turns into this little high revving japanese 4 cylinder trash beast!
I don't think it handles better that Icaras (for instance), but I think it's undoubted acceleration makes it feel more responsive, it really does give the feeling of manically pulling out of corners.
Anyway, I did a few laps with it on AP, got my times down and then, just to compare, gave Icaras a run. Given the fact that I loved the G-45 pull out of corners, I was somewhat dissappointed when Icaras thrashed the poor 4 cyclinder-rev-up-to-10,000-scream-beast.
So I suppose, in answer to the question, "what are the ships really good at", I'd have to reply, G-45's no good at TT.
But it is a right laugh to fly at the higher speeds :D

[Oust]

i've driven the Harimau on and off for a year. What i have noticed..

great starter

loses most shoving matches but great at apexing off another ship

glues to wall if wall scraping

good acceleration on boost arrows

fine handling at high speeds

side shifting seems to take two body lengths (tested 10-80% airbrakes)

for lack of better comparison or explination..
the Harimau's weight in the handling come from the center like a feisar egx or ag-s

SOO HARIMAU IS GOOD AT.. MAINTAINING HIGH SPEEDS COMPETITIVELY AND HOLDING LINES IN THE CORNER APEX

[mic-dk]

"Harimau" and "great start" in the same sentence does not compute in my book. I used to overtaken by the AG-S both besides and behind me when I drove that. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but it doesn't exactly excel in the thrust department.

[SaturnReturn]

I was using harimau fury the other night. I found it definitely seems to accelerate away from the line better than expected. Not like an ag-systems, obviously, but for a 20% thrust differential, it feels more like about 10%. I was also finding it seems to have a strange momentum for a better handling and fast ship and seemed to shake off hits better than expected. In general the Furymau wasn't what I had remembered harimau as being like at all.

[Nutcase:259]

hmmm. me think i like to use FEISAR Harmau and AG SYS. becase they in my opinion have the best handling to speed. also from doin zone alot. ive developed a wierd habit to put my fingeres between the R1 R2 L1 L2 triggers. as zone ships are really sensitive at high speed. i find squeezing the triggers right from the very top allows for the most precise movement as the triggers most resistent, and so i find those 3 ships most resemble the handling of the zone ship.

makes me look like im not pressing the buttons but still making it turn too :g

[SonicChaos]

Furymau is my ship of choice. It has the speed to stay in front and the handling to make sure you make those turns. Downside... It's accel is slightly below average, it's recovery time will cause controllers to fly and the sheilds are made of stiff cardboard. Still if you can get in clean air it's very hard to stop you.

[mic-dk]

I was also finding it seems to have a strange momentum for a better handling and fast ship and seemed to shake off hits better than expected.

Well, if your expectations are sufficiently low, then... ;)

My experience is at the exactly opposite of the scale. When I drive Furymau any weapon hit results in a 5 second dead-stop and it then takes forever to get going again. It could be a result of selective memory, but I call for an immediate, scientific investigation :D

[yeldar2097]

Good old Furymau ^_^

It looks stupid but it does the trick. Although having said that, I noticed before I went away that it's not that much better than anything else (contrary to what I used to think). I was getting frustrated at CPRev TT, around 40 (so not addicted :p )attempts and I kept messing up. Decided to switch it up and had a go in Mirage, EG-X, AG-Sys and Icaras and managed to get within 0.2 of my PB on my first Or second attempt with all of them. It can only be a good thing IMO. I know 0.2 seconds is quite a large gap but nevertheless, it seems Furymau doesn't equal autopwn. I like that, makes me feel like I'm not choosing the soft option :)

[trackripper]

This would explain quite a lot. I was wondering why Triakis Fury was struggling to keep up online even though its speed stat was 95...

[Whizawk]

One of the reasons could be that it's a Tank? :g