World-Wide Peace?

[Z°ⁿε]

Ive been thinking about this for some time now. Is World-wide peace possible? Looking at how we already have progressed in life, and of how much further we have left to go. What i have realized is this;
*note: Keep in mind some of this may seem obvious, but im trying to get everyone to understand, so please read through it all, thank you**

Early on in Human existence capital punishment was considered as the normal. 200 years ago even, the country of France would allow people to get the noose right in front of the public.. in the town squares. It was acceptable back then and although some considered it as cruel, most looked at it as lesson and later grew an immunity to the sight of a person dieing. This created a stuborn/hardened group of people. These stuborn people, who in their mind were considering capital punishment as the right thing to do, later went on to teach there offspring's the same thing. Thus a trend continued, generation to generation. Kid's who were taught to be tough,then grew into parents themselves.

Why did this killing happen? Because people did NOT know what they were really doing, they didn't see that killing is bad, not good. World wars eventually broke out, and millions of lives were lost. However, slowly people are learning that this act of war is wrong because it's hurting the human race. You can see this in the world of today. Communism is almost gone, and country vs country conflicts are using words instead of guns.

So why is this? why didn't the world do this a long time ago?
Because technology hit mainstream during WWII. Television was just starting to get popular, and provided a much need sense to which radio could not provide. Modern Civilians for the first time could see what war looked like. No matter if they were American, British, Canadian, Russian,etc.. they all saw a peace of the human race dead. At that hit home to the rest of the world.

Thanks to Technology, and time, we are understanding our faults. From hangings in the middle of the street, to just tickets/fines.. we are understanding how important we all are. Whether we know it or not, we all have a little instinct in us that cares.

You may be thinking, "but there is still murders, stealing, terrorism, suicides, we haven't changed!".

On a bigger scale we have changed, However on some levels like murders, stealing, terrorism, suicides, that change is not yet "complete". But like i said in my first paragraph there is still an up bringing of stuborn and bad kids, through bad parenting. BUT that ALSO is changing. Each generation of parents are adapting to the morals of society. 50 years ago you would hit your kid if he/she did something wrong, now a days that's not anywhere near as common. Sher there are the few cases of child abuse.. but like what i have been explaining about history, It takes time. Time to let the bad behaviors and prejudices of the people filter out. It may take 100 years or 1,000 years. But one thing is for sure, if there isn't that odd person who calls "jenga" on the planet, world-wide peace will happen.

[ACE-FLO]

your optimism is quite endearing to my humanity, sure, but the world is as it always has been and will be... quite ****ed up...

Yeah technology has leaped forward and TV showed us WW2, as a lesson in modern history, but technologies also turned to weapons of destruction... hmmm.. ok leave that argument alone for a sec, and consider this even - technologies have also bought us console games like CoD MW2, simulated war in the name of entertainment... generally i've found there to be 2 negatives to every positive when it comes to most technological advancements in the past century...

it's a shame that we won't learn, all at once - it's not possible, unless, ... unless a flood of biblical proportions or other cataclysmic event which threatened the existence of humanity, forced us all to put aside our differences and do a beautiful thing in the midst of chaos... unite. Just my 2 rupees worth :)

[drell]

Indeed. Not going to happen unless major event from outside planet Earth made some way to make us bond together as species. Not necessary threat event, but a possible case. Could also be major scientific discovery, breakthrough in energy creation or first contact with alien species. Even then it is uncertain.
Unfortunate but that is how it is.
I agree ACE-FLO.

[ACE-FLO]

thanks Drell, welcome btw :)

the possibility of world peace gets dimmer the older I get. One thing I find really standing in the way, of world peace, is mans rather insatiable desire to own things, people, places and power... Greed, for want of a better word, is becoming more apparent the further up the corporate ladder I climb, and I'm only 34 mate... take the real movers and shakers, the politicians, media moghuls and others, now these are the people who shape our thoughts, lead us to form opinion,.. and that my friend is real power...

For example, being a Muslim, I fiind it seriously annoying that Islam is outrageously misrepresented in the west. And it is the media which paints a pic akin to 'Islam = religion of hatred and terror' lol... whatever. Think for a sec, do you really believe that 1.4 Billion people would want to be a part of such a religion? no, ofcourse not - but the media won't stop drumming it into your heads that Islam = terror lol, the scary thing is that propaganda of this nature is already kinda seeping its way into the mentality of any one with a TV set, and some with CoD MW2 enjoy taking out (so called) afghan rebels...

i'm ranting, rght? ok, rant done.:|

[Aeroracer]

problem with world peace or anything really is that half of the people in the world cannot think logically and half the people in the world do not know true right from wrong if they did we wouldnt need to have the law.

people try to force their ideals of how things should be onto other people ..it is not right its just their oppinion.

labour party in uk does this ..tells us what is right/wrong to say (political correctness)...i think hitler called it fascism, not saying their like him just they use his method of thinking.

religon causes problems and fighting..
i was christian
now i am muslim
i have read bible and Qur'an and have discovered how ignorant many belivers are from both religions ,the crap they preach about the other when in reality they know nothing and fail to see the truth.
bit even though religion causes many problems with the ignorant people all faiths have the non religious people cause just as much problems as there world view is simple greed ,me me me..i only live once i gotta get what i want and screw over others ..not all ,but many think like this.but not everyone can be a life winner so many are left empty and bitter who cause misery for others..
all of this creates issues in the world...

solution is put all people in the world on E's so we all love each other and dont see the world for what it has become..:nod


edit...@ace...yes when i was at school i was brought up to believe all muslims are wife beaters and ass rapers and they are a hatefull people who want to kill all of us and take away our freedom....well that until i met muslims myself and discovered they are not like this but in fact kind generous forgiving and thoughtful in general..

[ACE-FLO]

Jasmin, lol, history is a mother****er aint it? Muslims are just people at the end of the day, and they live by the rules like everyone else. Infact, in the UK, Indo/Pak Muslims are the single most successful minority ethnic group contributing to new and successfull business startups in the country... fact...

makes me proud, ... but it may be short lived. I'm off topic and a mod gonna have words if i'm not careful.

World Peace, glad someone bought it up (Zone) bet at some point we all thought about it eh?

EDIT: Jasmin, hope you was kidding about the E's... unless you mean E as in wipEout :g

EDIT: :D Yeah, you mean as in wipEout... thanks for the add btw :rock

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I disagree and feel that there will never be world peace. Human beings as a species are considered power-hungry and greedy, always wanting more.

Wars have been going on for as long as the Earth can remember and although technology has advanced and could help prevent wars, I feel that it will never stop them completely and is a bit of a double-edged sword (i.e. technology can also aid in wars.)

It'd take an absolute miracle to bring about world peace and I although I seem cynical, I'm almost certain that it won't happen.

[Medusa]

Yes, of course there will be world peace eventually. We peace lovers simply have to finish killing off all those violent evil people that are ruining the world.

*please note the irony of the above statement*

[Dan Locke]

It's a fundamental aspect of human nature that we'll never get along perfectly. Accept it.

[Z°ⁿε]

fundamental? No, im sorry. It all depends on how you were raised as a kid. There are people in this world that don't steal, kill, fight. Sher we all get angry, but some people learn how to deal with it. I think the only reason why we think what we think, and do what we do, is all relative to how we were raised. The world is getting more and more peaceful. It's just a matter of time.

[ProblemSolver]

As long as we draw boundaries there will be no peace on earth.

[TorquedSoul]

without boundaries we would have no means to measure peace.

boundaries are not the problem ... its our incapacity for tolerance and diversity that drives us to violence. But often our differences are just a cover for the real problem ... squabbling over resources.

Peace comes with feelings of safety and security ... and considering the current rate of consumption, growth of the population and the physical limitations of the planet ... peace may be as scarce as clean water in the future.

[ProblemSolver]

There are boundaries that are imposted by nature, for example, everyone needs a
certain space to live. You either defend its boundary or you will die if the
enclosed space gets too small, no matter what.

But these are not the boundaries I'm talking about, I'm talking about those
that were drawn by men, whether they do have a physical form or not. And that's
why I wrote; "As long as we draw ...". In essence, there are many artificial
boundaries that do cause many many problem for no reasons. One can now start
to give them names, like you and others have done.

[TorquedSoul]

I dont disagree entirely ... but I think we may have a chicken and the egg argument on our hands.

What is the motive for drawing the artificial boundaries?

I think most of our current boundaries are just extrapolations of historical prejudices ... the roots of which lost in history. IMO, the dehumanizing and even demonizing of some people and cultures was done simply to facilitate taking their stuff. And what we deal with today is just the lingering effects of such tactics. I wish I could say that there are no recent examples from my own country ... but that would be a bit dishonest at this point.

The prejudice grows inevitably as a cognitive response to justify behavior.

[ACE-FLO]

fundamental? No, im sorry. It all depends on how you were raised as a kid.

Erm. No. I disagree... to blame everything on bad parenting is a pretty weak argument. People form opinions, from experience, not from the opinions of others... Even if those opinions belonged to ones parents, you can only beleive it to a point. Human nature is such that, if I said "Hey, there's a garbage dump behind that hill. Don't go there, it stinks!" You'd go there anyway.

[SaturnReturn]

I walked across the road behind a garbage truck once...it stank and I almost died. I can therefore say that I most definitely would never ever ever walk up a hill.:P

[Dan Locke]

fundamental? No, im sorry. It all depends on how you were raised as a kid.
Don't give me that garbage.


There are people in this world that don't steal, kill, fight. Sher we all get angry, but some people learn how to deal with it.
So some people control their baser instincts. But you'll never see the day when everybody does.

[OneAVGNFan]

I can sum up all of this in four words:

This world is B******t

[SenGoku81]

So some people control their baser instincts. But you'll never see the day when everybody does.

Is that any less reason not to try for peace though? Why quit at the first hurdle? In the words of some famous avant-garde crack-pot "Give peace a chance".

[TorquedSoul]

Sure there is no reason not to try to make the world a better place. Unfortunately some people who consider themselves 'pragmatist' claim that to be fair in an unfair world puts you at a disadvantage. These pragmatists dont want to be a sacrifice to someone else's ambition so they eventually start employing the same negative tactics. This is your fight 'fire with fire' crowd. Unfortunately they cant tell who is employing the fire against them after a while so they themselves become the firestarters. All while chanting their "Out of my Control" mantra.

Those that hold to their morals and ethics are often marginalized and lack the ability to drive change. Peaceful change requires large numbers ... and its hard to find that many people willing to make that sacrifice ... all because they fear putting themselves at a disadvantage.

[SenGoku81]

So how do we know if we can trust each other, eh? Well, I suppose that's what trust is. No one said it would be easy, I do not share the same idyllic vision of world peace that say your common or garden hippy* would, real world peace would only be attained through effort, sacrifice and pain. But such is reality.

Fairness is a strange concept also, what is fair by one man is not necessarily so the same by his neighbour, so whose opinion of equality holds weight over all others? I'm not saying that blame rests solely with our governments, but they really don't make matters any better, politics should be more transparent and more comprehensible to the layman so that above all else it is the voice of the whole not the I that has the final say.

If anyone remembers the fracas back in the earlier part of the new millennium to do with going to war with Iraq, you'll remember that one million of this (UK) country’s people marched upon the capital to say no, sadly falling upon deaf ears. Though the point here to those in power is don't simply give into mob demands, that is highly remote to what I'm stabbing at, what I suggest though is that if you have one million people on your doorstep who telling you that they are unhappy with your actions you at least think, discuss and possibly even address more of the populace on the issue. Can't say fairer than that.

One man can't make much of a difference, however mighty his influence, power and goal. But with common interest in is mind and compassion in his heart man united can achieve higher things.

Now where on the internet can I find other humans with a common talking point to myself to serve as a foundation? XD

*If you are a hippy please note that the term is merely used derisively in the context of this semi-rant for illustrative purposes only and no real offence is meant. Just good, clean banter. ^^

[Dan Locke]

Is that any less reason not to try for peace though? Why quit at the first hurdle? In the words of some famous avant-garde crack-pot "Give peace a chance".
The problem is that it only works when everybody does it at once. Of course there would be world peace if everybody just got along; it's a self-contained tautology. But that can never, and will never, happen.

Because people, like it or not, aren't perfect.

[SaturnReturn]

Does every single person have to be at peace with every single other person for there to be World Wide Peace? The world is large so peace on a large scale would surely be feasible, even if one individual goes of at one other individual. I think a kind of macro-peace is possible, but micro-peace probably isn't without some kind of major change in human nature, like others have mentioned.

[Medusa]

Just want to let Zone (no I don't know how to type that properly :D ) know, I too believe that one day there will be world wide peace, though not on their own. Not enough people care about the world as a whole for that to happen without external influence, since more and more are simply totally selfish and don't care about their next door neighbour, let alone someone on the other side of the globe they've never seen. My previous post here was intended to voice the ridiculous idea that war can bring about peace. Because it's really working well, isn't it?

Although humans are definitely not perfect, we can control our anger, greed, territorialism. Many have proven this can be done, on an individual level at least. That is what sets us apart from animals driven solely by instinct. To say that peace is impossible because of humanity's spectacular failure so far is incredibly defeatist and pessimistic. In that case, it is impossible for me to live a happy life. All of my ancestors and family have led miserable existences so how could I possibly ever have a good life? LOL. Oh my, what is the point of living, how can I go on this way?? ;)

The best lives are led by those who attempt to live up to our potential. Each and every human being has the potential to live peaceably, respect other humans and the world around them. Whether we do that or to what extent we do shows how much we think of our species.

Do you really think humanity is so pathetic and weak, its individual entities are so powerless, that peace can never happen? That is a very sad outlook on life and too often do I see that reasoning used as an excuse for behaviour.

This is one of those times I don't mind throwing it all out there on a public forum. Some things matter in life too much to just dismiss them with platitudes and excuses. Disagree if you want, most already do I see.

[TorquedSoul]

Does every single person have to be at peace with every single other person for there to be World Wide Peace? The world is large so peace on a large scale would surely be feasible, even if one individual goes of at one other individual. I think a kind of macro-peace is possible, but micro-peace probably isn't without some kind of major change in human nature, like others have mentioned.


I think that world wide peace is possible ... if ideologically opposed factions all lived on different planets.

[Aeroracer]

@medusa

i agree with you to a degree that humans can control there greed ,anger and negatve feelings but there are exceptions.those being probally half the people in the world are not logical or normal like you they literally cannot tell good from bad and when asked about it they think you mean the law and not whats moral and imoral..

its easy to be nasty and horrible yet remain a model law abiding citizen..

Also anothe factor is that it's not so easy to control those negative feelings when life isnt going to well.

basically humans like competing with humans on al levels be it a computer game..sport ..a war..getting a better job etc

i wonder if any alien races have divsed as many weapons and martial art sytles designed to kill their own kind as humans have..predator and alien have nothing on a human who in my oppinion can be the most dangerous life form of all time if rubbed up the wrong way.:nod

[Dan Locke]

I think that world wide peace is possible ... if ideologically opposed factions all lived on different planets.
My point exactly.

[SenGoku81]

"In framing an ideal we may assume what we wish, but should avoid impossibilities."
ARISTOTLE

:lol

[Z°ⁿε]

I understand how we are all screwed. The general consensus of people commenting on this thread is "it won't happen, Ever."

Well there is a possibility.
The universe is made of sub-atomic particles, which are made of energy, as we all are. Science says, Once matter is physically joined, then separated, the energy that once connected that matter will ALWAYS be there. This works with us too. We are all connected, to all matter in existence. These sub-atomic particles act in accordance to the conscious observer (us). We are changing the field with our beliefs and thoughts.
So the more you think a peace filled world won't happen, the more it won't.

However, as long as i live.. i will never carry a thought like that into my belief system.

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower:

[Dan Locke]

The universe is made of sub-atomic particles, which are made of energy, as we all are. Science says, Once matter is physically joined, then separated, the energy that once connected that matter will ALWAYS be there. This works with us too. We are all connected, to all matter in existence. These sub-atomic particles act in accordance to the conscious observer (us). We are changing the field with our beliefs and thoughts.
And how high were you when you wrote that?

[Z°ⁿε]

I was high on Quantum Physics. lol.
But seriously, it's science.

[ACE-FLO]

Dude, How can you beleive that world wide peace is possible - when it's never ever happened... Quantum physics won't give you answers pertaining to world peace! WTF? Dan was right mate - You must be high on something... Coz you're talking the same "happy trippy hippy, let's all focus on love energy - and we can heal the world" bullshitt which squat dwelling hippys spit. No offence, I aint that gullible mate.... and gimme some of what you got in your pipe. I've run out. :blarg

[stinkleroy]

I personally do believe world peace is possible, but only if human beings are eradicated from the planet ;)

Such is the way of our societys now that we are living on a basis of fear and consumption, more cut off from each other and apparently filling the void with material products that bare little or no correlation to what we actually want or need in our lives.

Greed rules all today and until that changes, world peace will never be possible.

[ACE-FLO]

Stinkleroy - you speak like a Jedi mate! :)

Seems to me that history was always written after a war, major conflict, or revolution... and was (always will be) written by thjose who emerged triumphant - even if they were the bad guys... na am saying? SO, History is bullshit - it's biased bullshit actually... most peeps who have looked into this would know it. But what gets me is - even though the history we've been taught is bull - it still isn't pretty is it? I mean - this lop-sided, biased, bullshit history could have been a lil more 'positive' if only to inspire human minds to beleive it was possible for world peace - or even that world peace had been acheived in small pockets of time throughout our existence... but it fails even there, which says a lot for the human race and our ability to remain skeptical...

I'm skeptical - so I'm guiilty - point is, we're all kinda programmed to never truly beleive that it will be possible to witness world p[peace in our own lifetimes. That's what I think!

And Stinkleroy - I totally agree with the whole "hoarding material posessions to fill a void in ones spiritual self" thing you mentioned earlier - sad but very true of us today... :(

[Dan Locke]

I was high on Quantum Physics. lol.
But seriously, it's science.
No, it's scientific language used completely out-of-context to justify the kind of garbage that everything from the "Christian" Science cult to The Secret has been spewing for decades - namely, the idea that thinking about something makes it so.

Which is patently untrue.

If it is true, please explain to me the method by which it is so - but don't use equivocation and sophistry to do it.


I personally do believe world peace is possible, but only if human beings are eradicated from the planet ;)
I'm with you there as far as the "people can't get along with each other" bit goes, but it isn't really "peace" without people to have peace between them, is it? Peace isn't the absence of hostility; it's the presence of friendship and alliance.

[Aeroracer]

stinkleeroy has basically hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
World wide peace is easy to attain by removing all humans..

the only other alternative is that God comes down and gives it the big one and everyone will either be in awe and obey or be scared and obey.

I think it’s in most humans to believe in a godly supreme being who tells us what to do. I believe most atheists secretly want to be wrong but see no evidence or reason to change their opinion on the existence of any god which is understandable

[ACE-FLO]

I'm not sure about the whole "eradicating humans from the planet to achieve world peace" scenario - a bit extreme I think. World wide peace is not possible for many a reason. Doesn't mean we give up totally and it doesnt mean we cant try to make our own lil "universes" (our place of existence) better - by treating people whereever you go, with respect - no matter what their belief system, ideals may be, or how they live their life etc. Chances are, you've got more in common with a stranger than you think - your friends were once strangers too. There's always a common, unifiying force between people - which leads to friendship - just gotta learn to dig a lil deeper. It's worth it. And that is what peace is all about... :) a lil more than 2 rupees there I thik ;)

[Aeroracer]

ace what you say is qute true too..genealy most people when they meet strangers find out how nice they are and get along fine..its the small percentage of wannabee gods and power monger leaders. visionares who crate the issues by brainwashing their people into what bad and turning them against there leaders own ememies..

like the west brainwashes all it poulation or attemps to with ideals of freedom and that the east especially islam is oppressive.
and that public trashtalking and evasion of peoples personal privacy must be good cos its not against the law.

But the the east is equally to blame with their brainwashing about the west..

get rid of these leaders and radical bumholes forcing their individaul beliefs on everyone and world peace is more likely.

If you want to create a war get a leader with an ideal perfect vision of how the world should be and force it down the throats of everyone..always gauranteed to start a war..

[ACE-FLO]

Yeah, no guarantees with Peace though is there? lol...

Ya know, I got friends form all walks of life - being a Londoner - it's natural. And I appreciate the diversity. But it does strike me as strange, that London, though diverse - has its' pockets of segregated communities. For example - Indo/Paks = East London, Turks = North London, Black/Afro-Caribbean = South London, Rich peeps = City/West End, etc... I can carry on but I think you get the picture. No - wait. You don't...

Sorry, I gotta say this. Ok, so these sgregated commuunities, actually have even deeper divisions... for example : South Asian communities = East London... Indians = Leytonstone, Forest gate, Leyton, Wanstead, etc... Pakistanis = Manor Park, Ilford, Walthamstow etc... Bangladeshis = Mile End, Algdate, Poplar, Stepney, Bow etc

Point is, it's all hypocritical - if I am supposed to be living in a multi-cultura, modern, metropolitan society, there should'nt exist pockets of segragated communities such as the exapmles I've given above... It creates a natural anymosity between communities because of their simple differences. And that is totally not on. The govt is fully aware of this but can never change it, because those once council owned houses are now mostly mortgaged by the new owners - who live there also ... FAIL ...

So, It's really up to us to spread peace in our own lil bubble - na am saying? :)

[Aeroracer]

so true ace....
dont forget about the chavs in essex though...:guitar

[Z°ⁿε]

wow wow WOW!

I was talking, not about religion.. or any kind of kult, but about Quantum Physics. Im ATHIEST for f**** sakes. What's wrong with some of you? It's not hard to understand that if the majority of the people on this planet want freedom/peace then we will eventually conform to it.

Do some of your life's really suck that hard, that you actually have to throw negative words at essentially what is our survival? peace and freedom??

Some people on these forums are a prime example of the negative/stuborn side of the human race. And all it does is gives us, the positive thinkers, a nice obstacle to try and over come. Your slowing all of us down. But right now, all your doing is giving negative feedback, and getting negative feedback in return, a vicious circle. OF COURSE it won't end when you think like that.

[TorquedSoul]

Maybe it would help if someone were to outline a mechanism or path to peace. Positive thoughts are nice, but ultimately its action that leads to desired outcomes.

Few people involved in conflict actually believe that they are the evil ones. They always believe that they are fighting for the greater good. It is that disparity in perspectives that can be used to drive the violence. Combine that with economics and a few sick power-mongering minds and you have perpetual conflict.

So long as people can be made to feel insecure and unsafe ... we will have conflict. So somebody tell me ... how can we make everyone on the planet feel secure and safe?

[ProblemSolver]

I think I should continue quoting some well known people; "I don't know
who you are, where you are from, or what you want... But if you threaten
my freedom... I'll kill you." -- Duke Nukem. xD Pretty close.

Well, let me give a philosophical statement; there is world-wide peace on
earth but we haven't recognized it just yet.

[Dan Locke]

I was talking, not about religion.. or any kind of kult, but about Quantum Physics. Im ATHIEST for f**** sakes. What's wrong with some of you? It's not hard to understand that if the majority of the people on this planet want freedom/peace then we will eventually conform to it.
Fine, but don't give me garbage about how positive thinking literally causes the atoms of the universe to conform to your wishes. That's not quantum physics, that's wishful thinking.

Oh, and people have been wanting "freedom/peace" for thousands, if not millions, of years. What kind of time-frame are you looking at when you say "eventually"?


Do some of your life's really suck that hard, that you actually have to throw negative words at essentially what is our survival? peace and freedom??
And you're just jealous because I'm better than you! After all, when people disagree, it's always because of some personal issue that clouds their judgement! Heaven forbid that someone reaches a conclusion different from yours by thinking!


Some people on these forums are a prime example of the negative/stuborn side of the human race. And all it does is gives us, the positive thinkers, a nice obstacle to try and over come. Your slowing all of us down.
Way to go, painting yourself as the force of good against those evil people who happen to think that you're wrong. I don't just disagree with you, I'm a sworn enemy of progress.


But right now, all your doing is giving negative feedback, and getting negative feedback in return, a vicious circle. OF COURSE it won't end when you think like that.
Well, yeah, you're going to get "negative feedback" when your plan for world peace involves everybody being happy.


Maybe it would help if someone were to outline a mechanism or path to peace. Positive thoughts are nice, but ultimately its action that leads to desired outcomes.
THIS.


So long as people can be made to feel insecure and unsafe ... we will have conflict. So somebody tell me ... how can we make everyone on the planet feel secure and safe?
By giving everyone happy pills like in Brave New World?

[Z°ⁿε]

noone here knows what Quantum Physics is.. proven.

And im calling you bad, or evil ,cause you don't agree with world-wide peace becoming a reality... Negative+Stuborn like i just said.

[mic-dk]

"In this house we obey the laws of Thermodynamics!"
- Homer Jay
Sorry, but someone had to

I reallly like the title Sworn Enemy of Progress - I think I'll spend the day being just that.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I think it all boils down the different views of the West and East, and these differences in opinion will never lead to world peace.

The East adopts the view that God created the world and he should be worshipped, etc.

Whereas the West belives that science holds the answers.

What I'm basically saying is that because of these differing views, there will never be world peace, becaue both sides believe that their opinions are correct.

A little off topic - ACE, where in London do you live? Cos I saw you mention Walthamstow and I lived there for 16 years.

[ACE-FLO]

Hey DP, yeah mate - I'm a Leytonstone lad :lol

Zone wrote - "No-one here knows what Quantum Physics is - Proven" :? ... ok... that was a lil er, silly of you mate... presumption is the mother of all fukkups. I for one, happen to know quite a bit. It's you who are a lil confused my friend. I am sorry to say it but your reasoning and logic is weak at best. I implore you to not just make sweeping statements which imply that everyone else is a moron and that you know best - this is NOT one of those forums. Instead, explain using real logic, and good argument... not the trippy hippy stuff you've preached so far mate... we've read it all before :lol from others.

Either way, you seem to want World Peace - which is a good thing, but please - don't expect it to happen because the whole world thought "peace" at the same time... that's just wishful, and deep down I think you know it.

World Peace? come on - we'd all love to see that, but hey - get real yes?

Peace? exists in small pockets of society all around the world... so get with the program - Nobody wants war, we all want peace...

[SenGoku81]

But there are moot points to the philosophies of East and West, there are things to be encouraged as well as discouraged. A meeting of these two contrasting points of view is not impossible, more so highly likely.

Someone referenced the narcotic "Soma" from Aldus Huxley’s Brave New World, I wonder if they have as I wonder if any one else has read Huxley’s last novel? Island, whereas most of Huxley’s early work tends to lean towards the cynical with grand visions of totalitarian governments and dystopian societies Island comes back around to the other end of the spectrum though employing almost same the techniques as BNW but to positive effect.

For example the trance states used in BNW for the purpose of indoctrination are used for advanced learning techniques in Island allowing the people to readily and rapidly absorb information and attain higher states of intellect far easier.

The difference between these two tales, if not evident in the previous paragraph, is precisely down to the differing purposes of using such things on the people. One very good, one incredibly bad.

Anyway, back to the point in hand.

Though not a criticism, Zone, but perhaps the question you have asked would have been better served by a show of hands? I fully understand people’s needs to state the ins and outs of their personal beliefs as this is one of those more intangible questions, but in the interest of finding whether or not more people believe in the possibility of total, unreserved global peace my money's on the poll.

For the record, let it show that my vote is in favour of the belief that we can have world peace.



Just don't ask me how. lol

[stinkleroy]

Zone - Whilst I do appreciate your sentiments here (and believe me I'd love for there to be world peace) you have to be realistic and admit that if history has taught us anything it is that human beings can be weak and easily corrupted. Merely learning to serve themselves instead of the will of the greater good.

Ever heard the saying "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"?

I believe that to be true. But I also believe there is a lot of good in this world also. It's just finding the right balance that's the tricky part, and unfortunately it's rare that these people are ever given the power to do good on a larger scale.

When I suggested eradicating humans from the equation it was merely a joke based on the fact that I don't see the world as only a place for human dwelling, I consider all creatures on this planet to be part of the world, and getting rid of us would sure make it a peaceful place for them ;)




noone here knows what Quantum Physics is.. proven.

And im calling you bad, or evil ,cause you don't agree with world-wide peace becoming a reality... Negative+Stuborn like i just said.

[SenGoku81]

When I suggested eradicating humans from the equation it was merely a joke based on the fact that I don't see the world as only a place for human dwelling, I consider all creatures on this planet to be part of the world, and getting rid of us would sure make it a peaceful place for them ;)

Ah, but if there were fewer of us I bet my last pair of shoes that there wouldn't even be half the problems that there are in the world today! Kinda like the vision of the world Tyler Durden has in Chuck Palahniuk's seminal classic Fight Club. :D

[Z°ⁿε]

@stinkleroy

Well put. And apologies to the users i was calling evil, lol. I was just in a pissy kinda mood the last month.

[SaturnReturn]

A couple of posts have gone a bit far in this thread so I'd ask that discussion can continue while maintaining a relaxed and friendly attitude towards each other and without insults.

Thanks

[SenGoku81]

Aye, a nod to the voice of reason! ^^

No need for sweary-Mary's and aggression, after all, this is a topic related to the notion of peace.

I find that the concept that there is a strong desire for peace isn't too hard to grasp. Just that most see no way that it can be applied large scale, and I'll agree it is not the easiest notion to swallow.

But on the small scale, here and now, people can tolerate others view points reasonably. They don't have to understand them, or even take them aboard merely accept them for what they are, the reference to the Duke Nukem quote resonates strongly. Surely as long as this in no way harms, insults, engenders anyone else’s life and way of living or their beliefs then there can't be a problem worth shouting about.

And always mothers words ring in my memory "If you can not say anything nice, say nothing at all."

I'm not saying the world should conform to one persons ideal of paradise, but acceptance can go a long way to allowing ourselves to allow others to enjoy their lives with respect and dignity we all crave.

I don't rule out the possibility that conflict could still arise in such a world, but even Eden had its serpent.

[Lance]

I see that I have been gone from the WZ too long. We have rules here that all members bound themselves to abide by simply by joining the forum and participating. The primary rule is to respect each other. That rule has been broken here in this discussion. The most flagrant example of this disrespect is by 'Dan Locke', who seems to have returned to the arrogance and overconfidence in his own opinion as truth that he had when he first arrived here. This sarcastic crap and personal insult will not be tolerated. Any repetition of this sort of behaviour will result at the very least in infractions leading to banning or in a direct ban. You are all warned.

Discussion of the rules and their interpretation will not take place in this thread, but only in PMs. Any posts consisting entirely or even only in part of talk about the rules will be deleted.

[OneAVGNFan]

I believe that this world's period is near its end. I believe that the world lives in periods that everybody start pure and innocent, but after a while people and society becomes corrupt and causes civil conflict and wars. It will end the period after the war and we'll start all over again.

Though we are near conflict, it will be likely that we'll have at least a clean and pure start.

For example: the previous period would be after WWI when society was restoring itself. However, that period was over due to the Great Depression and WWII, which the new period created after that war is the one we are living today (the Post-WWII Period: 1946-present).

[Lance]

How many "periods" have there been? When did the one before this end?

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I suppose it depends on whether people are looking at a "period" in terms of their own country or on a global scale. I guess after WWII came the Cold War, Arms race and the rise of communism and the Soviet satellite countries.

Assuming that that ended in 1989 when the Berlin Wall came down, what period followed that?

More countries building nuclear weapons? Terrorism? Are we really far off from this period ending? I'm not so hopeful.

[mic-dk]

For example: the previous period would be after WWI when society was restoring itself. However, that period was over due to the Great Depression and WWII

That kind of depends on where in the world you look after WWI. In fact, of all the powers participating in WWI it was really only the US and possibly Japan, that saw any social progress until the Depression. The period between the two world wars was in Europe (including Russia/Sovietunion) a period of social unrest and, to put it mildly, not a period of peace.

A nice world war does not pave the way for world peace.

Edit: Damn, DP89 beat me to the "widen your scope" argument :)

[Lance]

Speaking globally, there have been no periods I've read of when armed conflict has not occurred at some point in the world. Locally, there have been such periods. I was trying to find out if OneAVGNFan is referring to some larger more 'cosmic' set of periods, or confining the idea to just human history since the oldest part we know of it.

[mic-dk]

In my view, the last time Man was pure and innocent was when we rose out of the sea (or got kicked out of the Garden, depending on world view).

As a species we haven't had a innocent moment since.

[Aeroracer]

noone here knows what Quantum Physics is.. proven.

And im calling you bad, or evil ,cause you don't agree with world-wide peace becoming a reality... Negative+Stuborn like i just said.

cant really tell if your joking here or being serious...not being negative myself i will assume you were being funny.


btw i know about quantum physics..i watched quantum leap so i am an authority on this subject:dizzy


true world peace =freedom..no freedom can exist when you are being told how to act or think.so therfore good ideas forced down your throat are as bad as bad ideas..they just put your back up.. and make you feel less free and less inclined to peace..



no one wants to fight or argue when they feel good inside.so do good things that make you high and feel good and world peace will happen...well it works for me anyway...:guitar:guitar

everyone should make love and be happy....:guitar

[Lance]

In that case, I guess as long as you're not forcing us to make love and be happy, then we might have more freedom. Which would make some of us happy. :D

[Aeroracer]

basically yes....

peace comes from within you cant be told it or made to do it.

[OneAVGNFan]

What I meant to say is that the world is in a cycle that usually goes to most people and nations as this:

1. A fresh-start. Allowing people to recover from events of destrucive proportions like a war.

2. Social conflict and corruption. As time pass on for recovery and progress, people put aside morality for self-profit and benefit. People's greed, desires, and imorality spreads all over the world. As a result, nations put themselves on sides and the world becomes a time-bomb waiting to go off.

3. Destruction. The bomb explodes. Most of the time, it goes off in a HUGE BANG!! People fight, usually in a war and die.

4. We are right back to square one. Now we will have to repeat endlessly.

It's like food. It may be fresh now, but no matter what you would do to keep it fresh, it'll get very bad and rotten. No, you can't eat the food and you will have to get more food. It goes on and on and on.

[Lance]

So you mean it's very localised within the history of humanity that we know. I think that much of the time, any particular culture only gets one cycle.

[SenGoku81]

Hmm, I can only suggest some further reading at this point if people would like a clarification on the subject of the rise and fall of civilisations. The book is called Collapse and by Jared Diamond who is a professor in Physiology and Geography at UCLA.
For I synopsis I will use a quote, verbatim, from the article on wikipedia regarding the book.

"Diamond's book deals with societal collapses involving an environmental component, and in some cases also contributions of climate change, hostile neighbours, and trade partners, plus questions of societal responses. In writing the book Diamond intended that its readers should learn from history."

His work can at times seem a little pessimistic. But on the other foot his work is very informative, well thought out, well informed and with nothing but pure purpose driving the man behind it.

If you chance upon it and enjoyed Collapse, then Guns, germs and steel; The fates of human societies by the same author may be just another spot of casual light reading you hanker for.

:beer

[Lance]

The latter book has also been converted to a three-part television series written and presented by Diamond himself, who travelled on location to demonstrate his theses. This has been shown at least twice so far on American Public Broadcasting Service affiliated stations. Good ol' PBS.

[SenGoku81]

That is mightily awesome, sadly due to my circumstances of being numbered amongst the unliving-unemployed (reads "Bum") I have no access to State side broadcasting and very little access to the internet I haven't even heard of the series. Though I am happy that it has made such a leap into the public domain. Well done the Diamond!

Cheers for the heads up Lance :beer

[Lance]

Ah, so sorry. Unless you enjoy the freedom of unemployment, of course. I did, but eventually I needed some income beyond the rare one-day job. But I got by for years.

I guess Tannhäuser would be too busy singing heroically to have time for watching tv. ;)