SL redundancies and the future [if any] of HD

[blackwiggle]

I don't know if you are like me and just arrive at the wipeoutzone directly at the forum pages.
But you might of missed what Rob has posted at the sites main page,I'll copy/paste it here.


Sony Computer Entertainment is poised to announce sweeping redundancies at Studio Liverpool on Friday the 29th of January 2010, with the obvious casualties being from the team that created the recently completed the WipEout HD and Fury titles.

What does this mean for the WipEout franchise long term?

Only time will tell - although it's clear that the flagship series was being mothballed for a while anyway, after a relative glut of titles since 2005's WipEout Pure.

WipEoutZone extends best wishes to everyone affected by this corporate cost-cutting maneuver.

Not the sort of news either the people at SL wanted to hear or the fans of wipeout or any other SL made game.

Personally I think it's a power play leveraged by SCEA to get more of their own way over SCEE .

[Aeroracer]

should of layed off the people that work for sony making sl staff redundant, imo they serve no useful purpose.
Also the bright spark who thought of putting adverts in my game need to get the axe too.

If a new wipeout game ever comes out it will probally be much different to what we play now.complete overhaul.made more appealing to the larger audience.

sorry to hear they have been layed off..its sad times we live in.hope they find new work soon to pay the bills.:nod

[blackwiggle]

I see a SL staff member is online now,maybe he will comment.

[Colin Berry]

Sorry, I resigned from Sony a few weeks before Christmas and started my new job this week.

All I can do is wish the best to the hard working folks at the studio, and hope tomorrow goes well for all of them.

[Task]

They'll likely have to wait until after a certain date.
Sony puts a pretty serious gag on their people.
Unfortunate, but not much can be done about it.

[DawnFireDragoon]

it's a sad day and i wish anyone effected by this all the best.

In terms of the thread title, that must be it for HD Fury.

complete guess work here, but i would imagine if the studio is meged with another or something similar, hopefully avoiding too many redundancies, Sony would eventually want another Wipeout title, but who remains from the past teams and who is new and what their intentions are could re-shape Wipeout in a big way.

I expect it will indeed be a while before we get much info on this.

once again, all the best to anyone effected by this...

[IH8YOU]

NNNNNNNNNNooooooooooooooo! :brickwall :mad: :frown:

Beyond words, though I think a lot of us saw this coming for miles...

Still. (#*$ing Sucks.

[RJ O'Connell]

I sort of expected this after the merger of Evolution Studios and Studio Liverpool and I have a strong gut feeling that this won't be the end of the changes.

That said, hopefully Nick Burcombe won't be among the layoffs. Then again no one knows aside from the corporate heads at Sony.

So I don't really know how to feel about this.


complete guess work here, but i would imagine if the studio is meged with another or something similar, hopefully avoiding too many redundancies, Sony would eventually want another Wipeout title, but who remains from the past teams and who is new and what their intentions are could re-shape Wipeout in a big way.

I know a lot of people here, not to name names, have been asking for some change in the Wipeout series. But it's way, way too early to predict the future of the series when we don't even know the future of the studio that's been in charge of developing the games since 1995.

[Frances_Penfold]

Very sorry to see this happen, and I wish the best for members of Studio Liverpool :(

Maybe not surprising, given the global recession, recent studio mergers, loss of the Formula 1 license and Sony's recent ill fortunes... but still sad.

This would seem to have the potential to profoundly change the WipEout franchise, given that there was staff continuity from Pure to Pulse to WOHD.
I am sure that WipEout will live on. TBH I think we have been incredibly lucky to have three titles released over the past five years, given the limited appeal of futuristic racers to the current gaming demographic.

:(

[AG-wolf]

On a possible positive note...

Quantum Redshift 2, finally? :D

[RJ O'Connell]

They'll be selling ski tickets in hell before Microsoft will greenlight another Quantum Redshift, even if the entire Curly Monsters team ended up back there.

The first game sold like hot chocolate in the Sahara desert, to the point where Microsoft shuttered CM while the second game was in the planning phase.

And as much as I want a new QR, I don't want it at the expense of a company that's been around since 1984.

[AG-wolf]

I don't know if a second game would be "at the expense of a company that has been around since 1984"

I think the whole problem with QR was the "story" that was haphazardly tacked onto it; the game could have survived on its racing/gameplay merit alone... but the story and character development was not only ridiculous, but unnecessary.

I guess I just enjoyed it more than I expected to, and am genuinely disappointed that it won't see any kind of refinement/continuation :/

[ProblemSolver]

It now becomes rather unlikely that we will see another DLC for WipEout HD. :|

Whatever happens to the guys at SL next, I wanna say to them; Thank you
for WipEout HD! I wish you all the best!

Btw; Can I have WipEout HD's codebase? :) There are still some things that
must have been done.


P.S.: Out of curiosity, where does the information came from?

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I just hope they don't shut down the servers for it - that would be even more of a disaster.

My deepest sympathies go out to the Studio Liverpool crew who are made redundant. Thank you for everything guys :clap

[gordo1974]

Hiya all.
Regardless of the effects on Wipeout, it's a real shame for the people involved. I just hope they're treated well by Sony. This is happening to a lot of people at the moment and I wish them luck for the future.

Thanks for the hours and hours and hours and hours of fun you've provided me.

[blackwiggle]

Rob posted it a the zones opening page.
I expect he heard it from one of the SL people directly, I suppose he will add to this thread at one stage or another.

But otherwise there has been mention of it at gameindustry.biz .
You can see a copy of the article mentioning it at this link.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386088

[infoxicated]

That's them all gone, folks.

Studio Liverpool internal development is no more.

A sad day indeed - from Psygnosis to nothing. :(

[abukii]

Wow. Terrible news. Its like breaking up a family :(

Thank you, SL, for many years of enjoyment. The AG-5Y5 tattoo is still on my arm. SL will live forever in my heat and soul. I wish everyone the best of luck and may all of you work together again on another project soon.

Standing O
:clap

[ProblemSolver]

Thx for the link, blackwiggle.


... Studio Liverpool internal development is no more. ...
Hey Rob, is this just you opinion or is it for real?

[blackwiggle]

Rob ,I'm guessing your getting some emails sent your way about all this,could you clarify anything specific.

Like have they been absorbed /morphed into the North west Studio group?

Or have they all just been given the boot with out fanfare.

Is wipeout going to still exist since it's come to light that they were working on a brand new wipeout?

Can any of them post here?

[ProblemSolver]

I would be really interested in this as well.

[infoxicated]

They've essentially got rid of most of the senior programmers, producers, and other assorted members of the development team there.

AFAIK the lead on WipEout HD, Matt Brooks is still there, but they aren't going to be making any games for the foreseeable future.

Development was destined to be moved to a new, purpose built premises that would house the folk from Evo and Studio Liverpool anyway, so with that on the road map it's pretty much the end of development at Studio Liverpool for ever.

[blackwiggle]

I said it in the other post in the off topic section.

I reckon the evil twin has had a lot to do with this.
I can well imagine SCEA has said,look these games aren't popular in the USA so let's close the SCEE based studios down that make them.
Then we at SCEA can make more mindless FPS ,just what the world doesn't need.
Except in the USA obviously.

[infoxicated]

SCEA had **** all to do with it.

Mick Hocking, boss of Evo had everything to do with it.

[blackwiggle]

Here's the Bio of the accused.
With photo,so you know who to punch.

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Hocking_Mick_410084540.aspx

[SolidSnake_gr]

sad news...
i hope wipeout series dont die and will be treated as it deserves!

[kanar]

Saddest day ever for all the playstation fans. One of the best development studio in gaming industry wiped out, this is just awful. Hope there's a billionaire around, who's reading this new... Gah. The Wipeout franchise can't die like that. That makes no sense.

Thanks Sony, you f****d up my day.

[il_NIK]

Thank you for all you have built for all of us (Studio Liverpool) :clap

[IH8YOU]

I just realized this....

Dear Sony - you killed off the last reason for me to own a Playstation console. So you can keep your PS4, 5, 6 or 20 - and shove it up your @$$, as I've got no use for them now.

What still makes me want to kick them in the face - they never - once - ever - EVER - EVER - EVER aired a single *@($ing advertisement here. Seriously - WTF were you guys thinking?

[Sausehuhn]

If that really means the end for WipEout … well then … it rocks! – NOT.

At least they still have their jobs. That doesn't save the franchise, but at least the people who brought WipEout to (new) fame. :)

EDIT:
I Though that the people are "only" moved to other Studios. Seems like I got something wrong here. That's even more shÃ*t. Well done, Sony, well done. You fúcked it up.

[ProblemSolver]

... The Wipeout franchise can't die like that. ...
It won't. The codebase, owned by Sony, isn't lost. We may probably now have
to wait for about three to four years to hear any news of Wipeout again. Luckily,
the game is solid the way it is, despite some additional patches would had been
very welcome.

I just question myself what will happen to all the WipEout HD 3-D stuff shown on
certain trade-shows?

[il_mago_di_Doz]

Are we sure that the wipeout serie is definetly dead?

In that case I could just quote this man:

I just realized this....

Dear Sony - you killed off the last reason for me to own a Playstation console. So you can keep your PS4, 5, 6 or 20 - and shove it up your @$$, as I've got no use for them now.

What still makes me want to kick them in the face - they never - once - ever - EVER - EVER - EVER aired a single *@($ing advertisement here. Seriously - WTF were you guys thinking?

EDIT: I just read now your post ProblemSolver. Three to four years are definetly tooo much for me... :(

[ProblemSolver]

Wipeout will never be dead, its concept is pretty clear and can be refreshed
any time. Three to four years is a long time, granted, but there are so many
other sequels where people waited the same amount of time, or even longer,
to get their hands on again.


Just to clarify - of the people from Studio Liverpool who have ever posted on this forum, none now remains an employee of Sony.

So that probably brings to an end the interaction we've enjoyed with the developers over the years.
So I hope some of those come over here again and tell a little about how it was
to develop for WipEout HD.

[blackwiggle]

Meanwhile Sony has just posted a $1.1 bill profit for the Oct -Dec quarter.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE60Q0B620100127

[XpanDrome2097]

Very hateful notice.
Am very sad for this :frown:...


It won't. The codebase, owned by Sony, isn't lost. We may probably now have
to wait for about three to four years to hear any news of Wipeout again.

Mmmhh, am not very happy if a new WipEout will be released from some new minds...because I think that only the actual (or "past", brrr...) staff has the right ideas to make this game unique and flawless.
Ok, probably am a fanatic, but this is my idea.
Is Wipeout dead...?Mmmhh, I hope to be wrong...

Dear Sony....now you can create all the next-gen playstations, 4, 10, and 50000....but...I will be impassive.
This is a very bad notice...

[kanar]

The next Need for speed is developed by Criterion, so same thing could happen to wipeout... But as PS said, it won't happen tomorrow. And I'm wondering which one of Sony's internal studio could handle that.

[Koleax]

When I first heard news of Wipeout HD, I went all the way to the Apple Store so that I could download the 1080p trailer and it looked like there were angels here on Earth setting everything right. The world made sense again. People were making great things and one of them was called "Wipeout HD."

I didn't pay attention to the PSP at all so I didn't realize that there had been other Wipeout games since Fusion. Over the past year and a half I was getting used to the idea that Wipeout was alive again, but I tried not to get too attached. The signs of a downfall were there, starting from the cheap price and on to the ads. Those sorts of decisions could not sustain a franchise.

To any outgoing employees who worked on this masterpiece, and not involved in the purely destructive business decisions outlined above, bravo. You deserve every accolade. Wipeout HD is one of the most beautiful works of art ever created and will be a source of fun for me and so many others for years to come.

If you are looking for some extra money to get you by in your transition between jobs, I would buy your copy of the preview version of Wipeout HD that included the original Zone mode sent to magazines and other members of the gaming press. There may be a lot of Wipeout HD paraphernalia that you guys might want to get rid of and I'm sure you'd find a lot of members here would happily give them a home. But let's make sure that preview version is not lost!

[Connavar]

OMG this is terrible news, but as ProblemSolver said, Wipeout still exists,
let's hope that talented fans of the game will bring the project back to life.
In the meantime we'll just have to play Wipeout HD for a few years.

[ACE-FLO]

wait, what? this is NOT really happening right? FFS, i only just got the ps3 a few months back, and only for HD FURY... the leaderboards not updating was shite as it was but i bit my lip and carried on, hoping a future update would fix it... Now i'm led to believe that no update will be forthcoming. And to top it all off - now this. No more wipEout games... not for a long while... (if ever :bomb)

... i'm gonna get an xbitch live 360, i'll even swap my ps3 for it. Least xbox don't leave its customers feeling like mugboys :(

EDIT: Sorry, i ranted off a bit... i'm fine now, but still a lil upset at this whole new situation.

[blackwiggle]

The Xbox community is buying into PS3 now the slim has come out and you want to change to Xbox because of one game.
A bit extreme isn't it.

I hope some official statement comes out of somewhere regarding wipeouts future.
This sad event is all too abrupt to leave a fan base like wipeout's in the dark

By the way Xtrito has a review copy of HD given to him as a wedding present,but it doesn't work in a standard PS3 apparently.

[ProblemSolver]

... Mmmhh, am not very happy if a new WipEout will be released from some new minds...because I think that only the actual (or "past", brrr...) staff has the right ideas to make this game unique and flawless. ...
I wouldn't say this. Sure there are examples of developers who messed up a
whole sequel, like Slant Six Games did with SOCOM Confrontation, but I think
with the right minded people in place a possible next Wipeout may become as
good as any previous title or perhaps even better then anyone might think off.
Up to my point of view it isn't too difficult to envision a new Wipeout and things
alike, but it's difficult to find talented programmers who can actually bring a
vision to life. As a programmer you really have to love the project you are
working on, since otherwise you can't go beyond yourself.

Is it possible that WipEout HD (SL) has suffered from its own quality? I mean
the game has outdone many other high to mid-profile games in terms of quality
but didn't sold that much in comparison. This is a problem, isn't it?

@Koleax: True, the addition of ads (the way it was done) somehow showed us
that something was going wrong. Btw; if I'm lucky enough I might be able to
play and to record a ZONE run of the preview build. I now know a German
magazine who has everything in place. :) One more thing, the preview build
doesn't run on a standard PS3.

[ACE-FLO]

Yeah, you're right Blackwiggle, i overreacted mate :paperbag

time to make a wipEout level on LBP :lol

@SONY - WE WANT MORE WIPeOUT, assign a developer to make one. PLEASE

[dreams: Sony develop a studio specifically to make wipEout games - Studio WipEout :g so shoot meeeee :lol

[ProblemSolver]

Studio WipEout. xD Pretty cool! :+ Where do I have to sign?

[ACE-FLO]

Mate, if only eh? :(

[blackwiggle]

Google Studio Liverpool redundancies.
The wipeoutzone has never had so much publicity,I posted a copy of what rob wrote at the sites main page at the PS forums as soon as I saw it.

All other games forums/sites have been coming here and citing the zone as the source to check WTF has gone down as it a huge shock to the gaming community

[ACE-FLO]

Really? that's hardly surprising imo. A top end ps3 game development studio goes duck shite, it's gonna make serious waves across the international gaming communities. And this happens when we Brits are apparently coming out of the recession. hmmm... makes sense... not!

[ProblemSolver]

Sony has taken the word WipEout literally. Arrgh! :brickwall

[AG-wolf]

obnoxiously bold text

No. Very no. Wipeout isn't Sony's, or it SHOULDN'T be. A company as irresponsible and disconnected as Sony this generation shouldn't be allowed to handle an IP like Wipeout. I'd like to see everyone who was fired build their own company and take hold of Wipeout themselves; that way more people could play it if it became multi-platform, and they could potentially have greater development freedom.

[ProblemSolver]

In my understanding Sony holds the IP, aren't they? If true, one would have pay
them a lot of money to get it out. How much would it cost? An estimate, anyone?

[leungbok]

Is it possible that WipEout HD (SL) has suffered from its own quality? I mean
the game has outdone many other high to mid-profile games in terms of quality
but didn't sold that much in comparison. This is a problem, isn't it?

I do think that Wohd did good score regarding how it benefits of a huge promo campaign (adverts are not for wohd, adverts are IN wohd :lol) !! ;)

The releasing of the BRD may explain that the game reached at least a certain level, no ?

[DawnFireDragoon]

This is really bad news. :(

i was holding out hope they would just reshuffle staff about a bit, but to essentially end Psgnosis/studio liverpool's great work is dissapointing.

colour me worried if Sony holds the Wipeout IP and intends to make another at some point. I would love the Studio Liverpool crew to start their own studio or do something on xbox 360.

hopefully they will all find work and get to work on something they enjoy!

[ericd7]

That's very sad news :(
Thanks a lot for your work Studio Liverpool :clap , wipeout hd is the best game i've ever played.
I wish you all the best for the future !

[ProblemSolver]

@leungbok: That might be true, but gaining quality is usually a very
expensive tasks. One has to set the entire development cost of WOHD
into perspective to all units sold.

[Chill]

This does not mean someone has pushed the stop button guys, most likely it's just the pause button... ;)

[abukii]

Whoa...my initial post in this thread must have been almost directly after Rob's. So its official now? I- I am at a loss for words. It would explain a lot of messages over Xmas/ New Years that went unanswered. Man...my heart goes out to Studio Liverpool, my favorite development company, EVER. Best wishes to all of you hardworking souls. May WipEout (the TRUE WipEout) live forever!!!!!

[Kyonshi]

I only have one thing to say;

SONY/SCEE, KEEP THE WipEout HD SERVERS RUNNING.

For once, show that you have the slightest care and concern for this wonderful, GLOBAL community of WipEout HD and leave us play it until the end of days. And more, re-create another developement studio for another WipEout title in a not so distant future.

On a side note, i would gladly pay a yearly subscription fee for PSN to stack money so SL would still be alive...

[kanar]

On a side note, i would gladly pay a yearly subscription fee for PSN to stack money so SL would still be alive...
+1

Gah my third post here, but I do feel like I lost something important today. It's a real disillusion to see how Sony treated one of their most talented crew. They were the first to really use CELL's power, & run a ps3 game at 60fps/1080p. They released a masterpiece, after releasing 2 awesome games on PSP (and even more awesome at 333mhz...). I lost all my hopes today, & I've now ZERO respect for this brand I used to love so much since the first Playstation. Unconditional love. Just opened my eyes today. They're fkin morrons. And I understand Ace-Flo, the fkin Sony's execs probably don't care, but I'm going to buy an Xbox360 in the next days, with Forza3 (Really fed up to wait for their fkin gt5 vaporware) & ace combat. Just feel the need to punish them at my own, humble level.

I wish all the best to the guys who lost their job today. You gave me my best gaming experience ever. I'll never forget that. Please give us some news, as PS said we really hope to see you posting here. And as DawnFireDragoon said...
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=1982

[lovedr]

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33768/Sony-Liverpool-faces-restructuring

i read about the news earlier this morning from the developer mag and mailer i'm subscribed to.

sad day indeed.

[slamdunk]

I'll be perfectly honest: this is not my first post here, but recently I have been forced to use this account I made a while ago.
But I have something to say, and I believe that only hear it can be heard by the people concerned. I wish the forum administration will allow me to.

To Studio Liverpool:
Thank you for WipEout, for those five years since PurE on the PSP, for the friends I made and met and played with for all this time. Only another game kept me this long, and it is Unreal Tournament. To me, you are as special, as talented as Epic Games, and it's a shame to see this go because you are not an independent company and are directed by incompetent suits. It is a shame that the only developer on the PS3 who managed to unlock full HD 1080p at sixty frames per second has to go this way, out the back door with so much secrecy (Though not enough, judging by the reactions, and I am happy to see people reacting, it shows how important you were to the community)
Also, sorry Studio Liverpool, for what I have said. I had no idea that this was going on after the merger with Evolution. I sincerely apologize to you all and wish you the best for the future. Hopefully more WipEout in the future with you guys still at the helm, but until then I will remember you and cherish the good memories I have.

Thanks again.

[ACE-FLO]

[abnoxiously bold text: written in the vain hope that someone from Sony is here anonymously... not likely though]

Anyway, Damn - what doe this mean for the online community? DO we still get active servers? What up with that? :?

EDIT: Kanar, thanks man, I know what you mean too. The whole 'unconditional love' thing was pretty unanimous for all of us eh? looks like we all got a lil kick in the butt to wake our asses up :lol :( ... as for getting an xbox, mate - I will get one, with Forza and Ace Combat too... see you on server heaven (xbox lag free connection) soon. Who knows, avalon on Forza3 could be something eh? just saying ;) I just hope my hands can adapt to the awful ergonomics of the xbox controller :lol :( this is sad, I'm having to buy an xbox now. I didn't think I'd be doing that this year.

But I'll still play wipEout, I'll still rock it coz its not SL's fault they got disbanded, some things just are... yeah it pisses me off but hey, we still got HD Fury and as long as the servers are running, I'm racing... that's what it's all about anyway. Racing for the thrill of it, and this format does provide big thrills... Big up and full humble respects to all ex SL employees, and to all who ever got involved with wipEout throughout its' many incarnations. Nuff said from me on the subject... but I still wanna know if the servers will remain active :?

[Jambo]

Truly upset and disappointed here. Really wish these things didn't have to happen. Here is hoping that everyone who has sadly lost their jobs can move on to bigger and better things.

[ProblemSolver]

http://blog.niceproduce.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/03-psygnosisowl_jpg1.jpg

spread your wings....

[stin]

Honestly, I don`t know what to say over SL?, I`m just pretty stunned by it.

But!, three years ago (was it two?), me, asa, Mad-Ice and Rapier and yes Hellfire! did go to SL for an invitation from foxy(Thank you foxy). Honestly, I`m glad I`d been there for the part of history and I`m really sorry, Sony decided to shut SL down forever.

I`m thinking of to these amazing hard workers who created WipEouts and hopefully they will get news jobs in different companies.

I know who the credits are and thank you for everything to make it alive.

At least, I have a tattoo of Wipeout on my arm.

WipEout ForEver!

stevie

[KGB]

Sad news indeed, I feel very deflated about it all really. I'm sure the members who have lost their jobs will find something new as they are very talented. I personally think it's over for wipeout, but I really hope I'm wrong.

Just like to say to everyone at SL thanks for creating the best games ever. :clap

[eLhabib]

Well, that's crap news, to be frank.
Best wishes to all of SL, I hope you find something new that brings you joy (and money)

[kanar]

Jeez sorry to post again but couldn't restrain myself, especially with all these guests lurking our desperate cries. Hope there's some fkin Sony execs in these guests, so they could read this : as a Sony fanboy from the start, I never thought I could write something like that one day, but here it is : XBOX360 FTW! Mick Hocking, if you're reading this, I hate you.

[RJ O'Connell]

Obviously I was very sad to read the most recent bulletin, to say the least. I never thought I'd see the death of one of my favorite developer/publishers in video gaming soon after I turned 20, to be honest.

It's not just us Wipeout fans that are sad about this either. Think about all the other great creations and published works by Psygnosis. Formula 1, Lemmings, Shadow of the Beast, G-Police, Colony Wars, Rollcage, Destruction Derby, Novastorm, just to name a few...

It's partially the result of a bad economy in recent years, as other companies have been feeling the pinch. All of Midway was absorbed by Warner Brothers not too long ago. Atari has been hemorrhaging money for the past few years. I'm not as angry at Sony Computer Entertainment for this as some people are. Yes, it's absolutely sad that they've had to practically fire everyone to facilitate this merger that we've known about for a year. But Sony buying Psygnosis back in 1993 benefitted both companies - Psygnosis had a platform to publish and develop their best games to date, likewise, it was those games like Wipeout and Destruction Derby that compelled people to buy a PlayStation back in '95.

Let's not forget that there's still a key part of Studio Liverpool's history at Evolution Studios - Ian Hetherington, who founded both companies and is now chairman of the latter. (Personally, when this merge happens, I'd love to see the company be re-christened as Psygnosis.)

And as for the future of Wipeout...well, people said we'd never see another one after Wipeout Fusion. Right now, I've said it before - it's really early to speculate. The death of a developer does not usually equal the death of a series. In the end it all depends on who owns the rights to the series, but I do hope there is a future for the series, whether it's on the PS3, PC, Xbox, or wherever.

Psygnosis/SL, you may be gone, but you're never, ever forgotten.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Stevie: That trip was the first thing that jumped into my head on hearing this news. It's really a shock when you think back to what we saw and who we met (Colin, Clemens, John Eggleton, Karl Jones, Nick Burcombe) that it all no longer exists now. Funny enough I found the thread with the pictures in too (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4258&highlight=invitational) :)

Best wishes to everyone who worked at Studio Liverpool, past and present.

[Colin Berry]

An utterly **** day for all concerned. I only left 6 weeks ago and there was no inkling this might happen, so speaking to those concerned in the last 24 hours as events unfolded has been gutting.

I've no idea if any more Wipeouts will be made and to be fair, I dont care: Today a lot of GREAT and talented people lost their jobs, and all of them had contributed to Wipeout at some point in the past 15 years, busting a gut and always trying to do the best they could, countless hours, late nights, aiming for quality. Not to mention the quality F1 titles produced over the years. I do not know how many have been kept on, it seemed to be around 50% either way but I dont know for sure, numbers dont matter all I know is the the heart of the studio has pretty much been ripped out.

I am happy for those who got to keep their jobs but I am gutted for all my friends who have worked hard only to be kicked in the teeth.

Speaking to several of them this afternoon they were numb and devastated having just been told; it absolutely sucks. Sony has shot itself in the foot by doing this to its BEST european studio, and I just dont know why.

I feel privileged to have worked with so many of these talented folk and to have enjoyed some awesome times with them in and out of the office, and I sincerely hope they all find work soon, because they deserve better.

[ProblemSolver]

This hurts so much. :frown:

[captaingrim]

I'd just like to second what Colin said above. In the year and a half I've been away from Liverpool, I've always thought back fondly to a great bunch of people and some really fun times doing genuinely fun things. The people who've been ousted will almost surely go on to contribute fantastic things elsewhere, while Evo will continue churning gash motorstorm rubbish until the cows come home.

Sad, sad day.

[RJ O'Connell]

Whenever we're pissed at a certain publisher or developer for something dumb that happens with a game, we easily forget that there's people employed with the company that honestly try their hardest to solve those problems.

It's almost amazing to think that in six months people were going from delivering an awesome expansion to, in my opinion, the most polished and refined Wipeout ever made, to having to update their resumes and look for work elsewhere in the UK, which to my understanding already has a pretty grim outlook as far as gaming jobs go.

So thank you Colin, Grim, Egg, Crob, Nick B, Tim Wright, Rob, Matt Brooks, and anyone else that has had a hand in the series being what it is.

[chalovak]

OMG. I never saw this coming. I know I can do nothing in this case. All I can do is to thank SL for the great things they created! You rock!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! For sharing the part of your souls with us! Thank you!

[ACE-FLO]

In my understanding Sony holds the IP, aren't they? If true, one would have pay
them a lot of money to get it out. How much would it cost? An estimate, anyone?

I was just discussing that with a friend of mine, a very good question Mr ProblemSolver Sir! :) Anyone want to hazard a guess? or does someone actually have an answer even? dear me... are we really thinking about this?

[Seraphim1982]

This is the stupidest move I've ever heard of Sony making. Wipeout has been on the PS from the same people since it's conception. It's the equivalent of Halo on the Xbox but you don't see Microsoft cutting Bungie loose.

My thoughts go to those at SL who have lost their jobs. I was made redundant last year despite working for the top performing department in my company and yet we still got closed down so I know what it's like to put blood, sweat and tears into a job only to receive a kick in the gut.

Sony, to quote a certain internet flash toon, YOU are ****ING MORONS!

[captaingrim]

It'd be highly unlikely that you could "buy" the license off them. If they decide to do another WO then they'd have someone internal or a contractor do it for them, but whoever that was would never be likely to have any rights to the name or franchise. Sony holds the IP of loads of old stuff that is as mothballed as WO will probably become... Lemmings, Destruction Derby etc...

You never know though... stranger things have happened!

[RJ O'Connell]

^ Hey, if Warner Bros. could end up making the next Mortal Kombat, and EA is reviving NBA Jam, who knows what could happen.

Also, I think Lemmings is owned by another company, but don't hold me to that.

@Seraphim: Bungie was cut loose as a first-party developer years ago, but they are still in business - just not tied to the Halo series any more

[Seraphim1982]

Don't say that RJ, it's takes all of the wind out of my rant lol

[Feisar31]

What is there to say? It's hard to fathom how Sony could screw up so much this gen.

I hope that those who lost their jobs can get back on their feet as soon as possible. To all who have worked at the studio, thanks for all the fantastic experiences you gave us.

The statement listed Motorstorm before Wipeout. Says it all really...

[ACE-FLO]

Thank you for your response CaptainGrim. I figured it would be something like that, but was secretly hoping that wasnt the case... either way, it's closure for now. Sad faces all round eh?

Hey you guys at/from/ex SL - big respect to you. :rock

[djKyoto]

What the f**k.

Wow. Can't believe it. Thanks for that sony, you ****s.

[SolidSnake_gr]

i agree with everyone here...
everyone who worked at SL and is reading this thank you guys :clap,
you made us happy with your games (wipeout series, the amazing f1 '97...)
good luck in your life and dont give up!

[DrMannevond]

Wow! Just fu***ng wow! Psygnosis has been a part of my life since my first C64. I can still remember being excited about Shadow of the Beast and Destruction Derby. I still remember the first time I played WO2097 and deciding on the spot to buy a playstation. That was the game that made me the hardcore Sony fanboy I was until today.
To everyone at Studio Liverpool (and Psygnosis) : Thank you for the greatness you have brought to my TV over the years, and I wish you all the best possible future.
To Sony : F*** **U!

[AG-wolf]

@PS: I dunno... remember, although they were an arm of Sony technically back in 95, Psygnosis was the one who owned the IP, otherwise the first two games would never have found their way to the Saturn, nor would the N64 have gotten its own game. I suppose it's possible when Sony sorta took full control of Psygnosis (circa WO3?), they may have claimed the series.

When I think back over the past couple years, I think it's funny how so many people lauded their beloved Sony and PS3 when I was one of the sole 360 supporters here on the forum... I got a lot of BS from people, and both Microsoft and the 360 were on the receiving end of a lot of undue negativity- but if nothing else, whether you still think the 360 is garbage or whatever, you can't say microsoft has made any mistakes this generation other than just trying to rush their console out to meet launch demand (resulting in RROD/E74); they've delivered on promises, supported and encouraged their creative teams, continually improved their services and product, and they haven't once removed capabilities of their hardware or scaled things back. Even if you don't like MS and the 360, you have to respect them as a solid and identifiable presence in the gaming scene... and it's a welcome scenario considering how much Sony has fouled things up after the PS2.

[ACE-FLO]

Yeah, AG-WOLF, I can respect that mate! Especially the way MS supports 3rd party games developers... something Sony coulda learnt from

[XpanDrome2097]

OMG this is terrible news, but as ProblemSolver said, Wipeout still exists,
let's hope that talented fans of the game will bring the project back to life.
In the meantime we'll just have to play Wipeout HD for a few years.

I will hope in this :frown:....
For Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool:

INFINITE THANKS!
THANKS TO YOU GUYS!
For all these years I have been a fan of WipEout since the first time I've played WipEout 2097...I really love this game and it will be a part of my soul for eternity.
You've created more than a simple game, a real experience and all of you, guys, have introduced a new game conception: a real virtual reality!
And you, Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool, are the one and only that have created this experience!
Don't bring down your heads, but stand up your pride!

Still Spread Your Wings, Psygnosis!

This is worst action ever maked by....the hateful one....Sony! WE HATE YOU ALL!
From today I will never be a Sony supporter anymore: F**K OFF!

EDIT: Oops! A tear from my eye, this is very sad!

[ACE-FLO]

Xpandrome2097 - They not listening :lol they never did listen, did they? Sony are deaf to us, they probably are deaf to all mouths, except for the ones which show them £$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$ na am saying? shame huh!

[XpanDrome2097]

Sony are deaf to us, they probably are deaf to all mouths, except for the ones which show them £$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$£$ na am saying? shame huh!

Oh ACE, at least a time in my life: f**k money :paperbag!
For the staff: sorry for the bad language, but am very sad/frustrated for this notice, is the worst notice ever listened!
Is a realized nightmare, can't you understand :frown:?
By the way, am very sad: it's not very different from a goodbye to one of your best friends...

[ACE-FLO]

We all feel the same bro, all feel the same as you do.

[ProblemSolver]

Rain over paradise.

Who ever thought this would happen, esp. after getting such an awesome
DLC just half a year ago? wtf?!

[Aeroracer]

i am sad for SL..fat cats at sony protect their profits by axing the talent that put them their..:nod

[AspenExcel]

Could somebody give me a tl;dr version of what is going on here?

Lemme see if I've got this right since I'm just now reading up on this thread... Studio Liverpool is laying off a bunch of people so WipEout HD development has gone to basically nil, and somehow Sony is involved? I'm not quite sure what "sweeping redundancies" means. This all sounds awful though. :(

[IH8YOU]

Redundancy = Layoff in Euro-Speak.

Sony more or less owned Studio Liverpool (formally Psygnosis) - and from what I now understand, gutted / shut it down nearly entirely. So the team who developed Wipeout HD/Fury no longer works for Sony Studio Liverpool.... and most of them, no longer have work, period.

[AspenExcel]

Ah, thanks for clarifying, IH8YOU. That does suck, big time. I'm so sad this game doesn't have more support, because it certainly deserves it. :( Hats off to the SL team who have given me high speed, high energy entertainment since my early childhood. Best of luck to you all!

[DeepMix]

i feel really bad, i didnt saw this new until kyonshi told me about it.... as much as i would like another wo i cant think they will release another one :( an awesome game much better than most of the games in this generation is dying :( i think if they would gave it a good publicity it would have sold more and maybe the studio never had closed.

thanks SL thank you so much for all those games u have made, hope all your mates at work find another job, sony is really a !$%$%" for this -_-

i think ill buy the bluray version of wipeout hd fury now more than ever

[leungbok]

Thanks to Psygnosis and Now Studio Liverpool for the awesome games they gave us. Best wishes for the victims of the redundancies, i hope they'll find quickly great opportunities.
Regarding the Wipeout series destiny, i remember how i was disapointed when the fighter serie "tobal" ends, despite it was the best game from far in his category ! Some historical sony/psx games still remains, like tekken, but now those games are overtaken by the competition. This is not the case for wipeout, the HD version is awesome, it's a snap in the face of gt, forza, nfs...
I stay convinced that wohd sold very well regarding the total lack of promo.
I hope that a guy, less dumb than the others at Sony, will take the good decision about the serie ! :mr-t

[Dabombber]

This sucks :frown:. WipEout HD is everything a downloadable game should be, unlike lots of the crap on the PSN (tower defence style games etc), and its DLC isn't blatantly stealing people's money for what should be free.

[KayJ]

Sad days. My best wishes to my boys and girls of SL.

[ProblemSolver]

It may perhaps be a good time for some of the former members of SL to write down
how it was to be there as long as their memory is fresh, how the studio and
WipEout HD has evolved over time, problems and solutions you guys were going
to face and have solved better then initially thought, or just tell some
interesting stories nobody knows. It would be quite pleasing to know how
everything came together, and it would kinda serve the documentation about the
Wipeout universe and the people evolved. In 10 years from now, these information
will be hard to find, if ever.

A new thread within the Off-Topic section about the history of Studio Liverpool
would keep the memories, about the people who took part in the creation of
WipEout HD, a life. I would highly appreciate that. Take your time....

[mdhay]

Mate, if only eh? :(

I wanted to work at SL. Looks like that ain't happening..... :bomb

[ACE-FLO]

Don't lose hope young friend. You got crazy skills and you will work for a top development studio, just don't lose hope. And don't forget, you got the brains, vision and grit to get you there!

[XpanDrome2097]

I hope that everyone who have worked at Psygnosis/SL during all these years will try to found a new exciting game company...
Oh, what a dream!
I think that everyone on this forum will be excited for this, indeed!

[Asayyeah]

I received Stin's SMS this morning and had a shock.
Cannie beleived it at 1st then i pictured on my mind the great weekend we spent at the Studio with my dear mates ( Charlie & Stevie already mentionned it) meeting all the great guys who were working hard to develop at that time the new Wipeout HD. We knew they hadn't time for us but they took a whole afternoon, tchatting & joking with us but also discussing seriously about Wipeout in general over the years. They all shown us their true passion & involvment into Wipeout and eventhough i didn't catched all ( my english listening : my bad :( ) their eyes were saying more than their words.

This is extremely difficult for me to continue writing.
Sorry

[Koleax]

When I play Wipeout, it feels like the people who made it knew me.

I did not know them, but wherever they go, I hope for them with all my heart.

[Colin Berry]

I remembered something earlier I dont think I ever mentioned on here


Not long after we finished work on WOHD, Paul Tweedle and Tony Buckley, (the producer and game director) received a letter from a soldier out in afghanistan praising wipeout pure and thanking us for keeping him entertained whilst he was out on a tour of duty, saying how he'd actually broken his copy of the game using it so much (or something) but just thanking us and saying how some of the guys out there used psps to keep themselves entertained. Paul and Tony got a goody bag together of wipeout stuff a copy of pulse another of pure and I think they even threw in another psp and then mailed it out to him via the armed forces post service.

I know at times in the past years fans can be frustrated with dev guys, but every single person on those titles worked hard and always tried the best for the game, we may have had the odd delay and may have got a few things wrong now and again, and god knows we had disagreements with each other, but the dedication to quality and the passion and commitment could never be faulted.

I'm just a bit shellshocked about how they've all been treated

[IH8YOU]

I was just reading up on SCE Studio Liverpool before Sony yanked it off their website.

http://www.worldwidestudios.net/liverpool

:(

[PLazarou]

Thanks Colin for your memories. If you're still in touch with the guys from SL who don't normally come to this forum, it would be great if you could encourage them to read these topics. They're probably not in the mood to post how they really feel right now but at least they can see how much they are appreciated.

[Koleax]

What a great story, Colin.

I don't know to what extent you're allowed to talk about it, but since this has been such a shock, I'm guessing that things were going pretty well for Wipeout HD Fury and it had been profitable? That the low price had not impacted the bottom line too greatly? Because I immediately worried for the future of the studio when I first saw Wipeout HD's price. It seemed like there was a very risky strategy behind it. I hope the studio did not come to this fate because of the reckless decisions of some upper level marketer or economist.

[ProblemSolver]

Phantastic story, Colin. And it isn't too difficult to imagine the big smile on his
face. Hopefully this special memory serves him even today!

What I love about you guys and gals is your dedication to quality, it's an
irreplaceable value and has made WOHD and icon for me.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

That story truly touched me Colin.

Although the future of Wipeout is uncertain, there is one thing that isn't - the loyalty of the fans. Thank you so much SL for everything :)

[Frances_Penfold]

PurE was my first WipEout game, which I bought at the North American launch of the PSP in 2005.

One of the reasons that I spent so much time playing WipEout games since that time was Sony's commitment to the franchise-- three excellent games in a five year period! I also appreciated the relatively open communication that Studio Liverpool gave to its fans. This was very different from what happens with a first-party Nintendo studio, for example.

So Sony's decision to close Studio Liverpool is very disappointing to me. My best wishes go out to all SL employees, and also my thanks for developing such amazing software. I guess the future of the WipEout IP is still unknown... but there is no doubt that the events of the last week will profoundly affect the history of the franchise.



Not long after we finished work on WOHD, Paul Tweedle and Tony Buckley, (the producer and game director) received a letter from a soldier out in afghanistan praising wipeout pure and thanking us for keeping him entertained whilst he was out on a tour of duty, saying how he'd actually broken his copy of the game using it so much (or something) but just thanking us and saying how some of the guys out there used psps to keep themselves entertained. Paul and Tony got a goody bag together of wipeout stuff a copy of pulse another of pure and I think they even threw in another psp and then mailed it out to him via the armed forces post service.

I know at times in the past years fans can be frustrated with dev guys, but every single person on those titles worked hard and always tried the best for the game, we may have had the odd delay and may have got a few things wrong now and again, and god knows we had disagreements with each other, but the dedication to quality and the passion and commitment could never be faulted.


Great story, thank you for sharing this and your other thoughts and insights over the years. The communication of WipEout creators to the WOZ was a special thing and it is very sad to see it lost :(

I would enjoy hearing other stories (if permitted by NDAs etc. of course!)

[boxman22]

I remembered something earlier I dont think I ever mentioned on here


Not long after we finished work on WOHD, Paul Tweedle and Tony Buckley, (the producer and game director) received a letter from a soldier out in afghanistan...

... the dedication to quality and the passion and commitment could never be faulted.
All in all this is the best game that has been released in years imo. On top of that it was also cheap and i could easily have paid full price for such a excellent game. All games have their occasional bug or annoyance anyways and there is always someone who will be unhappy no matter what.

Edit: Also does the people who are responsible for the layoff have some email address? I really want to tell Sony how i feel about this whole situation.

[AurigaAB]

I'm shocked after this news. To everyone involved in Psygnosis / SL over the years, thank you for building the string of titles that brought so many hours of fun to so much people all over the globe, who continue to play to this day. I don't think it's irrelevant to note that I came today to the site to learn about this, only a few minutes after receiving in the mail a copy of Wipeout 3 to replace a worn-out disk.

It's very sad to learn of the treatment some of the staff has received. Your accomplishments on HD won't be surpassed by any racing game on this console generation. I wish you the best recovery.

[LOUDandPROUD]

*posted this in the other related thread, before realizing that this is the main thread for this, so reposting here.

Wow, this is depressing news. Thanks to SL/Psygnosis and I wish you all the best of luck. I may not be playing WOHD as much as I used to, but my love for it is, and always will be, strong.

Selfishly, I find myself imagining a world with no future iterations of WO and the day that the WOHD servers finally go offline. It's...unthinkable...and will effectively disconnect an entire community of gamers/friends from all over the world. That would be a sad, sad day... :(

I'll never forget all the amazing folks I've gotten to know, thanks to WO.

Sony = :turd

[JJPAP]

and the day that the WOHD servers finally go offline. It's...unthinkable...and will effectively disconnect an entire community of gamers/friends from all over the world. That would be a sad, sad day... :(


Really agree w/ you L&P :|

Feel really sad (also) for all the good guys at SL :(

But hopefully - like Rock´n Roll - WO will never die ..... We yet have to hear if WO in some way will continue ... Not too high hopes, I must admit - BUT BUT BUT .....

Let´s all keep racing and be friends in speed :rock :? :eek :guitar :?: :?: :?:

[AG-wolf]

maybe by then, people will have figured out how to crack some code and do their own online servers like someone did with Phantasy Star Online back in the day for Dreamcast... PSN games don't have a constricted network like Xbox Live, so technically if you could just tell the game to connect to a different IP when it looks for the WOHD online servers- as long as it gets the right response, maybe it would work.

[GTAce]

It almost feels like a good friend died...

I wish everyone who worked at SL and the WipEout series all the best for the future and hope HD wasnt the last game i could play from you.

Playing videogames is one of the very few things i can do due to my Spinal Muscular Atrophy and great games like WipEout helped me to get through a lot of bad times in the past. I have a lot of respect for you developers.

[Rapier Racer]

:|.....................:|

Just came back from my friends house after watching the Royal Rumble in a fairly good mood, until I logged in here and saw that on the front page.

My first thoughts were also images of the studio flashing through my mind like Stevie, Charlie and Arnaud when we got the once in a lifetime chance to see the place, I still remember all the Wipeout posters, computers and big screens everywhere. :nod (I won't thank you Mister Hellfire for digging up those out dated pictures of me lol ;)

Very sad to see such talented people put out of work after producing such quality and entertaining products, rest assured we all wish you the best.

What does the future hold now? I certainly hope Wipeout isn't canned whilst a piece of crap like Motorstorm lives on, no doubt the chances of that are high. Lets not forget to slap Phill Harrison whilst we're at it if I recall correctly he couldn't push Evo enough, he also couldn't NOT mention SL enough.

I'll be watching the scene closely. If it becomes apparent Wipeout is going to become WipeoutStorm Pacific Rift or indeed, gone forever then so will my support of anything with a PlayStation logo on it, never thought I'd say that. Might get some use out of my 360 besides Mass Effect 2 after all....

To borrow a line from a song, which I think sums up the way we feel towards Wipeout: Even through the darkest days, this fire burns, always.

[judus]

Noooo :( There goes my childhood memories, playing Wipeout2097 after school on a grey winter day. The thunder and lightning of GareDe Europa... It felt good knowing that what it was then is still relevant today.

Thanks for the memories SL (psygnosis), feel proud in acknowledging that you guys shaped and imbuned countless individuals with great imagination. I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

Its just too sad to take in...

[Alejess]

Haven’t been able to play much Wipeout at all over the last 6 months or so, or even been on the PS3 during that time. But when I read the rumours about jobs cuts at Studio Liverpool, I felt compelled to come here and express my views.

Wipeout is the most enjoyable game I have played on a console – bar none. It is quite literally the only reason I purchased a PS3 over an Xbox: without Wipeout, I would definitely have chosen the latter. The game just exudes quality, and has done so since the very first Wipeout was released.

So a big thank you to all those talented individuals involved in making the game: you’ve given me and countless others so much enjoyment over the years. I really hope those guys who have been made redundant get back in employment as soon as possible: I’m sure having “worked on developing Wipeout� etc on your CVs will be a massive positive for you all.

As for Sony: well, I don’t know the exact whys and wherefores behind this decision: all I can say is that on the face of it this decision could well backfire. Butchering a studio with such talented people working in it, and one with such a fantastic reputation for quality, seems very short-sighted indeed. Even if times are tough, or when you can’t avoid the need to ‘re-structure’ or make cuts, you should always take steps to make sure you don’t lose your prize assets. I’m afraid to say that Sony appear to have done exactly that.

[RJ O'Connell]

What does the future hold now? I certainly hope Wipeout isn't canned whilst a piece of crap like Motorstorm lives on, no doubt the chances of that are high. Lets not forget to slap Phill Harrison whilst we're at it if I recall correctly he couldn't push Evo enough, he also couldn't NOT mention SL enough.

I'll be watching the scene closely. If it becomes apparent Wipeout is going to become WipeoutStorm Pacific Rift or indeed, gone forever then so will my support of anything with a PlayStation logo on it, never thought I'd say that. Might get some use out of my 360 besides Mass Effect 2 after all....
Right, because we all know at this very moment that Evolution Studios is going to turn Wipeout into an off-road racer just to spite everyone that worked at SL. :rolleyes:

[mdhay]

I am actually scared about what's gonna happen to wipEout. :paperbag :cold

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Heh, why? Just play the other Wipeout games that you like - it's not like they're negated the moment a new Wipeout game comes out (even if it's a good game). Many people only like the first 3 Wipeouts for example (which is cool), and I'll enjoy playing Pulse for years to come (no matter if people say it's "dead" or inferior to WOHD (which it isn't!:D)). Let's just be grateful to SL/Psygnosis for the Wipeouts we already enjoy. :)

[mdhay]

Because some peice o' :turd studio might pick it up and turn it into a casual gaming peice of crap (hopefully this isn't EA for god's sake), Bill Gates might flash his wallet of Doom and buy it out, making the fanboy bastards at school beat the hell out of me (and I'm outnumbered at least 34 to 1 :cold). Again, and it may cease to exist entirely. I can't really play wipEout anymore, now that SL is no more. Sure, it's melodramatic, but they are a huge part of my childhood, distracting me from my mother complaining about not being a single - parent dole dosser/ Queen of the Universe. So, I'm really defensive about this. And, considering that I wanted to work for them, it's even worse. Of course, it isn't anywhere as near as bad as what the former employees went through, but everyone handles these things differently, don't they?

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Yeah, I agree that it'd be a shame if the Wipeout series went downhill, and it was pretty :turd of Sony to do what they've done. What I meant was that it shouldn't detract from enjoying the existing games that SL/Psygnosis worked so hard on. ;)

[mdhay]

Like I said, knowing that SL isn't around anymore makes it too hard to play, for me at least.

[Z°ⁿε]

Figures.

The one game i can really connect too, and it's cut short.

[chboing]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
:'(

that's really sad indeed ...
i'm going to buy bluray after all.
need to play more wipeout, i miss you guys, and i'm not even level 50 ! damn

see you online, and good luck to all SL staff !

[Rapier Racer]

Right, because we all know at this very moment that Evolution Studios is going to turn Wipeout into an off-road racer just to spite everyone that worked at SL. :rolleyes:

The implication was clear, attempt to give Wipeout mass market appeal and downgrade the game in the process :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's already easy enough.

[TearsToShreds]

Man, I haven't been active on the boards for a while, but recently got back into the habit of playing some Wipeout here and there, and decided to check what's going on in Wipeout land... and I read this. And to be honest, it hit me pretty hard. It's very rare for me to get emotional over anything happening in the business of videogames, but this news made me pretty uneasy. I pretty much grew up playing Psygnosis games and have always had a deep appreciation for their work.

Heartfelt wishes to all the people who've lost their job, I'm sure you still all have a bright future ahead of you.

[infoxicated]

Bear in mind there's still hope - a handful of guys were retained and a few others are on garden leave while Sony makes their mind up what to do with them. Torturous for those involved, but it does mean that proper development (as opposed to being outsourced to Killzone & Motorstorm) might one day be resurrected at Studio Liverpool.

[blackwiggle]

There's a proposed piss up on the 28th Feb for the SL guys.

[abukii]

...and I wish I could go :P

and what is "garden leave" ?

[Rapier Racer]

We can only hope such a resurrection takes place. :|

[infoxicated]

It's supposed to be in late February, but no date has been set yet.

I'll probably head down for it, tho'. :)

[TearsToShreds]

Pardon the ignorance, but what is this 'piss up'?

[Rapier Racer]

lol crowd of people hitting the town, said crowd consumes quantities of alcohol, usually vast quantities. :beer

[YouAreFubar]

I havent been around for a while and what news to come back to. What an absolute shame that this has happened. I feel the merger would have been more beneficial if they had shed most of Evo's staff rather than those at SL.

Wipeout has been a mainstay of mine since the original 15 years ago, and is one of the games that has kept me buying the Playstation brand (the others, Air Combat and Metal Gear are gone and also going be the looks of things). Its a shame its ended like this, if Sony do pass the IP to another team to work on, no doubt it will go in a new direction and it just wont be the same. Ive heard time and time again the passion the staff at SL have for their games and gamers this has definitely shown through in what is their longest running series. I really do wish everyone affected all the best, I hope something good will come to all of them from what is certainly another in a long line of big mistakes made by Sony.

Infox, if you do go to the piss up please give them all our best and wish them luck for the future from us.

[q_dmc12]

Well that sucks! :-

At least we still have the zone.

The programmers' at SL excellence I strive to achieve some day, and I don't even have to hope that they'll carry on at other companies and on bigger, better projects - with a track record like the WipEout series there's no doubt!

To the future..

[ProblemSolver]

I've read the following just yesterday;




Two SCEE Vets Join Outsourcing Firm
by Leigh Alexander
May 12, 2010

Two former senior-level employees from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe have joined Liverpool's Catalyst Outsourcing Limited as senior producers.

Gareth Betts, previously senior producer on F1 Championship Edition and Wipeout HD spent 4 years with Sony, while Tony Buckley, who was Wipeout franchise game director, was with Sony's Studio Liverpool for 7 years.

Production service and outsourcing firm Catalyst says it's working on expanding its production team in Liverpool and is "delighted" to be joined by Buckley and Betts.

"Collectively Garth and Tony bring 37 years gaming industry experience to Catalyst and its range of production and development services," said production director Ian Davies.

Catalyst offers a broad range of development services, from concept design and illustration to writing, rigging and animation, business development and more.

Related news:
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[graeble]

it's good to read that problemsolver, thanks.
it hurts to think that a studio that produced such a quality game could go under.

[someguy789]

The wipeout games have all been great they just don't sell for some reason...
Do sony own the rights to HD and any development team that want to update the game or make a sequil will have to buy the rights off sony first?
I can't really see anyone wanting to do that :(

[leungbok]

Sony also fired two creators and lot of devs of activision. And i'm not sure that we can really said that cod mw2 didn't have success ! ;)
sony's commercial politics = :eek

[blackwiggle]

I think it just didn't sell well in the USA [?]
Most likely the marketing dept of SCEA find it too hard a concept to promote any game in the USA that doesn't contain a gun toting Marine, gang member, alien etc, insert typical FPS.
The writing was on the wall when the added content for PULSE wasn't, and still hasn't been released in the USA.
Wipeout is the best game, but my god, it's had some absolutely terrible marketing decisions over the years that have really hurt it.
Usually because it has traditionally been the "Showcase Game" for any of Sony's new technology.
I suppose we should be thankful that there wasn't another Wipeout made especially for the PSP GO!.
That would of killed any hope of ever seeing another Wipeout again judging by what a huge flop the GO! has been.

[Dan Locke]

I agree on how shameful it is that Wipeout gets next to no promotion on this side of the Atlantic. Look at what that did to the Amiga.

[Koleax]

Marketing has nothing to do with it. Americans aren't known for having a well-developed sense of taste and, when it comes to racing, it's even worse. What do we like? Stock cars and ovals.

Seriously.

[UB3R~JKP]

The problem for Sony is it's 3 Flagship racing titles:
-Gran Turismo 5
-Motorstorm
-WipEout

Some may say WipEout doesn't belong there...that's the source of the problem.
Both these games have a much larger fanbase(Albeit for different reasons) and completely overshadow WO and Sony doesn't give a ****, about trying to put WO back in the spotlight.

[someguy789]

I think the fact that wipeouts not a "traditional" racing game is one of the reasons it's never sold very well
It's a shame because the the games are all great and don't get the publicity they deserve

[ProblemSolver]

The problem for Sony is it's 3 Flagship racing titles:
-Gran Turismo 5
-Motorstorm
-WipEout

Some may say WipEout doesn't belong there...that's the source of the problem. ...
I won't sign on this. Any of these games complement each other.

[Little_Piranha]

I'm really sad 'cause this...
All the best, and thanks for the great gift you gave to us before leave Sony!

[drell]

That would of killed any hope of ever seeing another Wipeout again judging by what a huge flop the GO! has been.And the hope is not killed now? Everyone who made WipEout what it is has left Studio Liverpool and gone on their separate road.
The guys who loved their game have all left. What is left are the people who obviously didn't care enough about the game and closed the studio as well as passed a deal with DoubleFusion. You think these people will make another WipEout game?
Maybe someday, some of Studio Liverpool will regroup under a new name and make a new game as independents. But it won't be called WipEout. That would be truly wonderful, but chances are slim. There was one attempt: Quantum Redshift. And unfortunately it did not work well enough.
Sony was good for WipEout, it made numerous games over the years despite the low popularity, but now... Not so much anymore.

[yeldar2097]

Well Putting the fact that Sony have clearly gone a bit loopy to one side; I think marketing defs played a factor popularity-wise. I have never EVER seen any kind of advertising for Wipeout. Never.

Everyone knows GT and MS was part of the deal when a lot of people bought a PS3 in the first place.

It's not the game's fault, it's just nobody has heard of it. we know it rocks :rock

Goes like this:
Random - "What games do you play?"
yeldar - "mw2, kz2, lbp etc... especially wipeout"
Random - "Wipeout? What's that?"

NOT LIKE THIS:

Random - "What games do you play?"
yeldar - "mw2, kz2, lbp etc... especially wipeout"
Random - "Wipeout? Oh yeah that crap racing game that I don't like because it sucks"

Gospel :nod

[leungbok]

That would of killed any hope of ever seeing another Wipeout again judging by what a huge flop the GO! has been.

What i pointed with activision's redundancy is suppose to bring hope (not on the mental health of sony's marketing genious :lol) on a possible future wipeout ;)
I'm pretty certain that a new cod will be released, so why not wipeout ? :)

[KIGO1987]

would be good.

But i think you are a bit too optimistic there mate :/

[blackwiggle]

QUOTE:
NOT LIKE THIS:

Random - "What games do you play?"
yeldar - "mw2, kz2, lbp etc... especially wipeout"
Random - "Wipeout? Oh yeah that crap racing game that I don't like because it sucks"

You know as well as I do, there's nothing wrong with the game.
It's just that it takes practice, and lots of it, to get good at it.
It would seem the populations of some countries are less likely to put the effort in than others.

So that last line with the Random is really - "Wipeout?" Oh yeah, it sucks that I'm crap at that game, that's why I don't like it.

I'm like that with FPS.

[Dan Locke]

Did you even read his post? He said that people aren't saying that. Also, way to dismiss ENTIRE COUNTRIES' ability to play video games.

[yeldar2097]

Hmm yeah tis true that a lot of people are put off due to difficulty etc... But nobody I have ever met (in England where it usually does okay sales wise (maybe??)) had heard of wipeout until I started my schpiel :lol

Only exception is my bro since he introduced me to it in the first place :+

Anyways, I really hope the chaps who were let go find something new and exciting to
do. Would be a shame to waste such talent. Still one of the best looking titles after 18 months? Yes. Achievement? Yes :nod

[drell]

I'm pretty certain that a new cod will be released, so why not wipeout ? :)Because Call of Duty sells and WipEout doesn't.

[leungbok]

No proof of that ! All depends what sony was expecting for wipeout sales !

[KIGO1987]

If the last few games of the Wipeout series was marketed properly this outcome would of been very different.

Maybe in due time another installment might come back:?:

[Koleax]

You know as well as I do, there's nothing wrong with the game.
It's just that it takes practice, and lots of it, to get good at it.
It would seem the populations of some countries are less likely to put the effort in than others.

I don't agree with this. If you like a game, you generally play a lot of it and thus become well-practiced, not the other way around.

But there is something to be said about a level of difficulty that makes one feel "welcomed." I mean, there's been an amount of elitism in Wipeout design going back to the beginning. Somewhere along the line, beginning with Wip3out, the difficulty change caused the coolness factor to move away from the chill welcoming sort to the select elite sort. (I could say something about various European countries and elitism here but will instead only remind you that I could have).

Then again I'm not sure why that's the reason more people don't play it, at least here in America. When people ask me what games I play and I say Wipeout, even the most casual of gamers have heard of it, but follow it up by saying that I'm the only one they know who plays it.

Perhaps it takes an unusually focused sort of gamer. There's no narrative, even in the most abstract "career mode" of the sort you'd find in Forza. There are no characters to build, inventory to manage, or equipment to juggle, so that completely leaves out any gamer with an RPG inclination. There's no exploration. At all. Of anything. No sense of discovery. (No, new barrel rolls don't count). There's no sandbox element, which completely leaves out anyone who just wants to "play around." At the same time, it doesn't really go anywhere. I could see that particular combination not attracting many players.

At least in 2097, you eventually unlocked Piranha, the coolest-looking peaceful maxed-out badass ever. There's nothing like that summum bonum in any other Wipeout. Fusion makes a good attempt with the ultimate weapons. The richness and variety of weapons in Fusion is really under-appreciated. Every time I see a Piranha with weapons, though, I feel like something died inside.

In any case you have to be a bit laser-focused to play Wipeout. The most important thing about the game, though, and why I love it, is the feeling that the world within Wipeout is opened up to technology, made better, cleaner, more elegant, more stable, richer, and even more natural. The feeling that you could spread your arms and fly through this wonderful landscape as fast as you can and destroy anyone who got in your way. That's what I think the spirit of Wipeout really is and will keep the series alive.

[mic-dk]

Koleax, you do realise that blackwiggle is not a Euroweenie? Please point that flamer at the other sea...

I don't agree with the whole elitist sentiment. Difficult to master and narrow-focused, yes, but not elitist. WO has one of the most welcoming and generally friendly communities in gaming. Both on the interwebz and on-line. A friendly 'Good game' message at the end of session is not uncommon. Compare that to your FPS of choice.

I thank the gods that I don't have to choose between 26 suspension setups before each race and is a single player, single race not as pick-up-and-play as it gets? Choose track, choose ship, 3-2-1-GO.

Anyways, I don't know why WO is not the worlds most popular game, but 'elitist' is IMO not one of the reasons.

[Koleax]

Oh yeah, well. You know, he's still in the domain of the House of Windsor. I sort of think of the Queen's subjects as a packaged deal. :P

[blackwiggle]

Maybe Wipeout 3D will bring a larger audience.
Well at least bring Wipeout HD to peoples attention, as it would seem that is what the basic problem is from the comments made.
A lot of people just don't know about it, which I think is because of a generation of single child families, the kid doesn't/hasn't had an older sibling that has played wipeout and can turn them on to it, add the fact that wipeout didn't have a home console game between FUSION & HD, that leaves a whole generation that unless they were an early adopter of a PSP and got PURE, would be unlikely to have even heard of wipeout.
Add to the fact that some households bought a different console for gaming and wipeout is Playstation exclusive, well there's another slice of the possible market gone.
It might be the last chance Sony get to promote it, sorry, what am I talking about, I mean it would be a great time for Sony to eventually pull it's finger out and promote it, since it has done diddle squat previously.

I somehow doubt they will though, even at the upcoming E3 WOHD3D will get scant coverage because it was shown 2 years ago, other 3D games will steal the thunder, bloody Motorstorm 3D most likely.

[MiguelX69]

I am not aware of the recent events but I know that Wipeout is not a disposable title.
Wipeout is a title that, although it may not have as many fans as the GT series, it has been following the Playstation over the years. Wipeout series is one of my all-time favorites and I hope that in a near future more titles of the franchise are released.

[drell]

No proof of that ! All depends what sony was expecting for wipeout sales !No proof other than Pulse DLC not released in USA because it was not an economically viable decision to release them (low sales expected) and Studio Liverpool closing down because it was no longer economically viable (Remember they were working on new projects which all got canceled, aka they were losing money and not profitable.)
Sorry, I just don't see how a new WipEout can happen. It will have to be a miracle for it to happen and a second miracle for it to be good, considering the Studio Liverpool folks cannot work on it anymore.
Maybe if this 3D thing catches on, WipEout will be more exposed. Hopefully the 3D in it is done well enough that it will carry the 3D banner for a long while and expose it to a lot of people who will buy it to try it out. Maybe then Sony will think about it again and design a 3D WipEout from the ground up (Instead of a port to 3D like it is.) but then that is the future and if I could predict I would be rich. :p

[MiguelX69]

Well said...

The idea of the Wipeout series being over just kills me. HD is my favorite game by far from every possible point, but I feel that it could have been "bigger"... Oh well, let's pray for those miracles...

(PS: Sorry if I have some language mistakes, English is not my native language).

[blackwiggle]

I don't think we have seen the last Wipeout.
The gaming industry is just like the film industry in one important way, and that is they are both running out of ideas for totally new stuff.
We end up with countless remakes & sequels of movies, likewise in games.
So it's only a matter of time before partially completed wipeout projects end up getting dusted off and put into production again.

How long away that is and who will make it and for which console it will be for?

If the combined history of Wipeout, Sony and Playstation are anything to go by it would probably be a totally new Wipeout in 2 years, in 3D and for launch of the PS4 and hopefully on Disc.[and a new NegCon as well that can use the "MOVE" interface for good measure ]:)

I just hope whoever inherits the responsibility of making Wipeout, now the old hands aren't there, comes and visits this forum and sees what Wipeout tragic's love about the game.
Make it for the people who love it and it will succeed, change it and it isn't Wipeout anymore, it's something else, anybody can do something else, very few can make a proper Wipeout.

[amplificated]

I like that last line, wiggle

[KIGO1987]

There was a bit of a gap from Fusion to Pure, and a big change in the game dynamics. Maybe it'll be the same story again.

[Rapier Racer]

Was Wipeout not one the the games mentioned in one of the statements made during the SL close down?

Put money on there being another game called Wipeout, don't put money on it actually being Wipeout.

[UB3R~JKP]

I don't think we have seen the last Wipeout.
The gaming industry is just like the film industry in one important way, and that is they are both running out of ideas for totally new stuff.
We end up with countless remakes & sequels of movies, likewise in games.
So it's only a matter of time before partially completed wipeout projects end up getting dusted off and put into production again.

How long away that is and who will make it and for which console it will be for?

If the combined history of Wipeout, Sony and Playstation are anything to go by it would probably be a totally new Wipeout in 2 years, in 3D and for launch of the PS4 and hopefully on Disc.[and a new NegCon as well that can use the "MOVE" interface for good measure ]:)

I just hope whoever inherits the responsibility of making Wipeout, now the old hands aren't there, comes and visits this forum and sees what Wipeout tragic's love about the game.
Make it for the people who love it and it will succeed, change it and it isn't Wipeout anymore, it's something else, anybody can do something else, very few can make a proper Wipeout.

I Agree with everything, except that part about the PS4.
The PS3 still hast at LEAST 5 years left in it( opinion)
The upgrade to 3D on the PS3 is being made out to be a big deal I don't think they would ditch it so fast...

[Medusa]

Put money on there being another game called Wipeout, don't put money on it actually being Wipeout.

Naturally. In just one installment it went from "futuristic racer" to "combat racer", it could easily go from "combat racer" to "RPG FPS Dance Dance Revolution pad-compatible downloadable-only racer".
Imagine how much worse it can get, then when it finally arrives, you'll say "Thank God! I thought they were gonna have Michael Buble do the soundtrack!"
(or whatever you thought would ruin it)

[UB3R~JKP]

I like that DDR notion....
































:P

[Koleax]

Not to sound cynical (merely sobering), but Wipeout has been dead for 10 years now. Its spirit has lived on in games called "Wipeout" and they are fun in their own right. I own and enjoy several, putting at least a couple hundred hours into them total. Mechanically, though, the last Wipeout game was SE. The floaty, air-lifting gameplay that made the game so unique and genre-defining has been gone since the 20th century.

The guys that left SL? Well, mechanically they turned Wipeout into an ordinary vehicle racing game with air-brakes and barrel rolls. The games are still very enjoyable. Aesthetically and musically they are spiritual kin to Wipeout. But, they don't fly like Wipeout and nothing has for over a decade.

[MiguelX69]

@Koleax

Unfortunatly, most games in this genaration are turning to much "Eye-Candy" rather than fun.

That's why many people still play PS1 games for hours and hours. For example, a game like Sheep Dog n' Wolf... It wouldn't be possible on the PS3.

[ACE-FLO]

...it could easily go from "combat racer" to "RPG FPS Dance Dance Revolution pad-compatible downloadable-only racer"... you'll say "Thank God! I thought they were gonna have Michael Buble do the soundtrack!"
(or whatever you thought would ruin it)

I laughed my head off at your post... Let's hope they don't do "that" to wipEout... :bomb

Personally, I think the next WipEout game will be on PS4 now, whenever they plan to release the beast is beyond me - but hey for now, I'm ok with HD Fury. How peeps can expect a new wipEout when the current incarnation has so much longevity in its' format is beyond my understanding. Records are still being set and broken. Peeps are still improving after 2 years of having this title, there's obviously room for improvement for pilots who play this game - I'm one. NOt to mention the disciplines we all cried out for but never race on - such as ELIMINATOR mode... you all know what I'm saying, we just love to bitch is all :) being the hard to please types that we are ;)

[Koleax]

@MiguelX69, such a shame, because my eyes do like candy.

[Colin Berry]

Marketing has nothing to do with it. Americans aren't known for having a well-developed sense of taste and, when it comes to racing, it's even worse. What do we like? Stock cars and ovals.

Seriously.

Marketing had a lot to do with it, Wipeout HDs entire european marketing budget was less than some uk football players weekly salary (I think we got one banner advert on eurogamer and that was about it) At the time of Wipeout HD, Sony PSN games had virtually zero marketing spend. That said, it was/is too hard and niche to ever be mass market success. Some die hards will claim its easy, but I'd wager HD remains one of the hardest current gen racing games to master.


Its cool Tony and Gaz got jobs quite quickly (I bumped into Gaz a few weeks back getting lunch :D ) in fact they are in a building only a few hundred yards away from myself, linky, karl, and several other ex wipeout folk. :)


Now and again I wish we'd have been given another crack at another HD expansion pack, some old track remakes, some screwing about with the handling, some more online options, a proper delve into the 3D aspect (I'd have rather done more HD, than a fresh Wipeout, because a fresh wipeout would mean a reinvention and that could be a hiding to nothing). But I think overall we (that wipeout team) stopped on a high, HD/Fury remains one of the best Ps3 games, interms of play, looks, and value for money, there are a few of the guys still about at studio liverpool, so you never know what the future brings, but I think that recent chaptor ran its course well:
Pure brought Wipeout back and did some new things for the psp
Pulse built on Pure, added online handheld play, ship skin editor, and had some cool tracks (maybe I dicked around with the handling too much, I should have had a broader feel to it I like the handling in pulse but should have found a way to retain pures handling in some way despite the mag strips etc blahaah)
HD took the best bits (ok our favourite bits) from the PSP versions and delivered it in 1080p 60fps, at an ace price with a lot of game for people, a tight campaign experience, tonnes of options, and then Fury built on that added some new modes, took an edgier art direction with the ships etc and honed aspects of the game further. 4 games each one building on the last, irrespective of sales the standard across all 4 was consistently high I dont think we dropped the ball massively on any of them.

People will have their favourites, for some it will be the older ones, 2097 or WO3, for some its Pure or the original or Fury, and whilst some dont like feature x or y of the recent games, I think overall we did the name justice, I actually think HD is the most fun and polished version of all the wipeouts (yeah I am bias, bite me :P ) but even if you prefer WO3 or 2097 or even fusion, no one can deny the team that went from pure through to fury all worked with care and attention to detail and a passion and commitment to wipeout. Fury got made because the team FKIN loved wipeout and wanted to do more it was driven by the team not by marketing or management, Fury was made because of the desire and passion of the team, indeed at times it was made despite management at some levels, we fought hard to make Fury and fill it with the content we wanted to make, not compromised or diluted to fit a certain price point. Not many games get made in that kind of environment and situation, there is always a love and care but often you are dictated to by outside influences, but Fury was a labour of love for the team and a culmination of the second 'era' if you like in Wipeouts history.

In time sony might ask another team to start a new era, be interesting to see what they do if that happens.

/end waffle

[ProblemSolver]

"... Wipeout HDs entire european marketing budget was less than some uk
football players weekly salary ..."

(no comment xD)

Colin, your post reads something like this; we wanted to make an addon for HD
and got through with it. After the release of Fury we wanted to make another
one which wasn't accepted this time around. And as a result we felt cut short
while flying high. :?:

I do agree that going ahead with HD (addon-wise) would be a best fit. Each
addon could add a certain flavor such that, in the end, after multiple addons,
a possible new Wipeout could be created based on some new ideas and the
knowledge gathered so far.

If I think about that some of the major 1st party IPs are now in its second
or even third (PS3-) iteration, for example KZ3 and UC3, respectively; making
their games even better than ever before; it's rather disappointing to see
that you guys won't be able to do the same with WipEout HD. :brickwall Damn.

Don't know if you can give a non-trivial answer to the following question.
Well, you said; "But I think overall we (that wipeout team) stopped on a
high,...". Why?

Btw; WipEout HD Fury pwns! No need to justify. :naughty ;)

[Sausehuhn]

Nice read, Colin.

At the first WOZ Convention (long, long ago) I experienced some of the passion you guys had/have for the WipEout games and that it's not common in the game industry to actually love a game that much. That you care for it being the best you can do and spend much more time in it than you would normally do.

To quote a friend of mine: "Seriously, I don't need another game for the PS3 but WipEout HD".

[XpanDrome2097]

Not to sound cynical (merely sobering), but Wipeout has been dead for 10 years now. Its spirit has lived on in games called "Wipeout" and they are fun in their own right. I own and enjoy several, putting at least a couple hundred hours into them total. Mechanically, though, the last Wipeout game was SE. The floaty, air-lifting gameplay that made the game so unique and genre-defining has been gone since the 20th century.

The guys that left SL? Well, mechanically they turned Wipeout into an ordinary vehicle racing game with air-brakes and barrel rolls. The games are still very enjoyable. Aesthetically and musically they are spiritual kin to Wipeout. But, they don't fly like Wipeout and nothing has for over a decade.

I agree with the essence of your post (the handling) and honestly I prefer the handling of the classic PS1 games, but at the same time I respect all the games available for PS2, PSP and PS3: for me WipEout remains an experience, and WipEout has changed after the first 3 games, this was its natural evolution, expecially in handling.

NOTE: My firsts opinions about the WipEout future was full of sadness, but now I don't believe in any way that HD would be the last WipEout.

[MiguelX69]

@Koleax, mine's do also. But, you must admit, in the PS1, megadrive ages, games had poor graphics, and were very simple, and even that way some of us played them for hours and hours and hours.

Unfortunatly time's changed, and today people are to demanding, graphics need to be the priority, and some games can't just get a hold of it. Wipeout is NOT a case of that, altough.

[blackwiggle]

I remember when the news that HD would be coming out, and people complaining about HD not being on disc and saying they wouldn't buy it as a download only game.
I think that might of had a small bearing on sales, mainly in the perception of value people have with virtual goods [It seems ring-tones for your mobile don't have this problem :| ] even though HD costs a LOT less as a download only game, there was still the want for a hard copy.
It's the same, most likely of several reasons, for the PSP GO!'s failure.
[I know HD/FURY is available in limited release as a PAL region only disc version]

But after having the quick load times of the game being installed directly on the hard drive, would anybody really want to go back to the slow load times of a disc version, I mean that was one of, if not the main reason I stopped playing FUSION, it just seems to take so long to load :brickwall

This has put any future wipeouts in a catch 22 situation.
Do you release it on disc or download only version?

If they release it as a disc version, and even if Sony don't promote it, the sheer fact that will be seen on store shelves in the "coming soon" section, and again when it's actually on sale, will alert people of it's existence, something HD never had.
It will also satisfy those who will not buy download only games, and give it a second lease of life in the secondhand market, again a promotion of sorts.
This might possibly give it better sales,but it will suffer slower loading times, and inevitably complaints about this when compared to HD.

Which would you opt for?

Depending on the success of 3D games and if the next wipeout will be 3D [I don't know how big the file sizes are for 3D games], maybe a disc version might be the only option, as the downloads might be too large.

[Colin Berry]

Don't know if you can give a non-trivial answer to the following question.
Well, you said; "But I think overall we (that wipeout team) stopped on a
high,...". Why?

Btw; WipEout HD Fury pwns! No need to justify. :naughty ;)

I say we stopped on a high because the final thing we did was Wipeout Fury, and though I myself was not day to day involved at all (I contributed little to fury) it was the final thing the team did, and it was ace. We stopped because after Fury, Sony decision makers decided they wanted no more, at the time, I honestly think the team was kind of happy to have a little break but I also think the team would have welcomed the chance to continue with DLC for Hd, alas it wasnt on sonys radar. There are still some Pure-HD guys at sony, but many are no longer there, so any further Wipeout would be a new era, if something happens I'll be interested to see what they do, it would likely need people inspired by what we did to take it over and take it on in order to take it further, just as we, inspired by the first wipeout generation, took that and made our own take of it.

The cool thing is from a purely selfish point of view, we got the opportunity to make 'our wipeout' which on a personal level was all I ever wanted to do in the industry, I was working in psygnosis QA with my career aim to be 'lead designer of a wipeout game' back in 1999.
I never wanted to remake WO2097 or 'improve it' all I ever wanted to do was make 'my own wipeout' and after learning many things during WO Fusion, I was fortunate enough to be in a position to work with people who felt the same and WE made OUR wipeout. It was never perfect, I can point to many holes in pure, pulse, hd, fury some that you guys know some that you dont, but we really did create it with passion, and I think thats my only regret of the time, that the people who really poured passion into such things never really reaped the rewards and many ended up shafted. Its an aside, I'm not bitter (maybe a little), but there are not many games born and created from sheer desire and passion, and I think sony shot itself in the foot when it let many of such passionate staff go in fact I dont think it, I know, sony fkd up there end of story. I left pre redundancies and I primarily left because I had no passion for any of the opportunites ahead of me at sony, the concepts I felt passionate about where not favourable to management and vice versa which is fair enough, sony is a business there to generate money not feed my or anyone elses ego. I'm glad I left wipeout when and where I did, but I also know there is a tiny nagging feeling of unfinished business with it, which actually makes me want to see another version, someone elses vision, just to see what they do with it. As I've said before, I'd have loved a crack at doing a true Wipeout 3D, hopefully someone will be afforded that opportunity.

late night waffle FTW

[blackwiggle]

Colin
Who plans the future games for Sony, is it SCEE or SCEA or a combination of the both?

[Colin Berry]

A combination of SCEE and the internal studio heads for Liverpool / London etc would have the ultimate say

Decisions lie within the respective regions but all 3 regions work together to reach concensus because thats the senisible approach, it would be daft if one region developed a game the others didnt want or all 3 developed similar titles for example.

So although there are 3 regions they work together, because its sensible and common sense.

[Kyonshi]

Why WipEout would disappear? Why would it be hypothetical that another WipEout title will perhaps be made some day?

WipEout will live again.

It's not just the flavor of the month, dammit. It's become a legacy, a testimony that AG racing is viable, despite most people would say, that a game can carry on over the years, that a game can be conceived with fiery passion, that a game can be fashion-driven and in the end, a flagship game for $ony. Yes it's true, marketing suffered a major flaw in America. But damn, the whole European continent isn't something to take so lightly, isn't it? Europe has a massive influence on video games, and i would dare to say has much has America and Japan can have. WipEout cannot just disappear from the map. Even if most of the team is disbanded, even if $ony ****ed up a valuable asset from their arsenal. How could such a successful game should vanish in a nameless void???

Some other people will carry over, and if those people have the slightest sense of judgment and decency, they will collaborate with former SL staff as consultants. WipEout left its mark in the history of video games, it cannot be forgotten and left to eternal sleep.

Funny thing is, where i see Blur, i see another WipEout after. Not saying Activision should take over the next WipEout (please God have mercy:lol), but the proof that combat racing is still alive because of WipEout i would even dare to say. The next time some people revive WipEout, they will put up such flamboyant marketing, artistic design and longly elaborated gameplay that the whole planet will witness it. WipEout is also a propulsing engine for artists in the graphic design and musical industries (Designer's Republic, DJs and electronic music composers). The oncoming 3D hype will inevitably draw its attention to WipEout to sustain itself. Just add the right custom design personnalisation tools and a storyline backbone to the game and you got a killer again.

The only thing pissing me off in this is to not know when it'll happen nor do we have any time references of the big return. For the time being guys, don't give up hope and give up on saying "Oh well we may never another title again, all hope is lost, yaddayaddayadda". All of us here, playing the series since 1995 know for sure that WipEout will be back again. The possibilities and the technical developements in video games and too promising to leave WipEout dormant while its passing and we should nurture the hope and dedication we give to the game.

As for me, i've been playing HD/Fury since day 1 and every goddamn day after. I've never been so implicated in a game such as this one and in the community who supports it. I need the game, it's became a drug for me and i need my daily fix. I love it not only because it responds to a lot of concepts i search in a game, but also because in its conception i can feel what Colin said in his previous post; the passion infused in it.

This is my pledge and my tribute to Studio Liverpool: WipEout has found unlimited success and eternal support in me. I am not giving up hope in any case.

Now you'll excuse me, i gotta go barrel-roll:)

[Koleax]

I think overall we did the name justice, ... [snip] ... no one can deny the team that went from pure through to fury all worked with care and attention to detail and a passion and commitment to wipeout.

Yes, it's very clear that these games were designed with care and commitment. So many times while playing these games, I have thought, "wow, they didn't really have to go that far."

As far as doing the name justice, I agree to that unenthusiastically. I feel like there's a spirit that lived on and I'm glad the team had the opportunity to make these games. I'll play them each to completion probably. I'm just now getting into the PSP games, because I never needed nor liked mobile gaming devices much. So, if they got me to buy a PSP, that's pretty damned good, even if it was five years later.

But, you said you wanted to make "your own Wipeout" and I think you have to agree that you created your own lineage. They look and sound fantastic, but don't feel like the progeny of the PS1 era. Fusion must have been like this step-child that came in and changed everything.

[lunar]

That`s a great read, Colin. Standing back a bit, and indulging my little theory, I think there are two eras to this game. The WipEout - Wipeout Fusion era, at which the point the game dies; then it is reborn with the Pure - HD era, at the end of which it dies again. IMO each one starts with a flawed masterpiece, speeds up in the next issue, but loses a bit of the magic in the process, then gets progressively diluted to the "end of the era."

I think Pure was an absolutely amazing game, you did a great job, and all that had to be done after that, for me, was to add online play and get rid of the reverser and having so so so many bombs!!! (And probably a few other details I could talk about for several hours). The physics of Pure were a magnificent re-invention - so unpredictable and exciting. The tracks were stunning. Less is more with Wipeout though, and with Pulse then HD too many "features" ended up being chucked in, to the detriment of the game`s focus. The handling really suffered too. I hope that doesn`t sound too negative, but really it`s just a tribute to the two best games: WipEout and PurE are the most pure and the best :D

2097 is of course a supreme game and isn`t far behind ;) though immensely flawed by modern standards, but still a lot better and more essential than its equivalent game, which is Pulse. At the end of the day a Phantom race on 2097/XL Talons Reach remains the blue riband event for many players here, I believe.

I don`t know if there will be another era to the game, let`s hope so.

[brummpahh]

For a Phantom race on 2097/XL Talons Reach in HD
i'd spent some money. Or beer. Or both. Ahhhh,
I would really like to do this !!!

Btw. thx Colin, for that glimpse behind the
Sony curtain. I wish you all the best for your future.

[blackwiggle]

There was a talk of 2097 being released as a download version about 18 months ago but it never happened, and Colin said at the time that he had never been informed about it's release.
There was some other problem with losing the original code to 2097, or something along those lines, so that re doing it in HD was very unlikely, and as Colin has stated in previous posts, not something the SL team personally wanted to do preferring to HDify the PURE & PULSE tracks.

[ProblemSolver]

@Kyonshi: There will be another Wipeout. I'm pretty sure about it! :nod

@Colin: Can you walk me through the process of how Sony came to the decision
that they don't wanted to invest anymore in WipEout HD? I guess there was a
discussion about it. That Sony fukked up is pretty clear from our perspective.
But what has lead them to make such a decision?

You wrote; "... I left pre redundancies and I primarily left because I had no
passion for any of the opportunites ahead of me at sony, the concepts I felt
passionate about where not favourable to management and vice versa ...".
What kind of concepts? :) Are you willing talk about some of those?

[blackwiggle]

All the SL guys had to sign none disclosure contracts when they left as far as I know, that's why no details have been revealed despite people asking the same questions before.

By the look of the PStore, it would seem the heading Sony want for gaming from the studios it controls are smaller and more frequent games that will be download only, mini's etc.

No packaging, no promotion except in store, cheaper to make, more of them, more often, can make a premium off extra DLC and just a far bigger profit margin for them, cut's the game distributors out as well.

It will be the generation of games that should of been made for mobile phones being played on $800 consoles

[Colin Berry]

@Kyonshi: There will be another Wipeout. I'm pretty sure about it! :nod

@Colin: Can you walk me through the process of how Sony came to the decision
that they don't wanted to invest anymore in WipEout HD? I guess there was a
discussion about it?

Its a decision taken by management. I'm no idea of the ins and outs, sorry. Though I'd guess cost/profit/catalogue play a roll. But its not an area I delve in.





You wrote; "... I left pre redundancies and I primarily left because I had no
passion for any of the opportunites ahead of me at sony, the concepts I felt
passionate about where not favourable to management and vice versa ...".
What kind of concepts? :) Are you willing talk about some of those?

haha 110% categorically not :D
sorry.
I have left sony and I disagree with some things they have done and decisions that were made, but I respect the company as a whole, and I value my None Disclosure Agreement. I am happy to talk about the odd thing from the past as I can, but I cant talk about certain things. sorry :D

[ProblemSolver]

@Colin: Na, I didn't wanted you to speak of any NDA stuff. I just thought
that the concepts you mentioned were independent from Sony, kinda of some
ideas you're carrying around.


... I never wanted to remake WO2097 or 'improve it' all I ever wanted to do was make 'my own wipeout' ...
My version is still missing. :P

Now that you did what you ever wanted to do, what's next? Any new stuff in
the works?

[Dan Locke]

He's going to be making match-3 games for PopCap.

[blackwiggle]

Colin went to Bizzare Creations before Xmas last year and has been working on the recently released racing game BLUR, which might account for some of the similarities between it and HD.

Two other ex SL staff ended up joining him after being retrenched in the SL shake up earlier this year.

[ProblemSolver]

May hold for Wipeout as well;



Motorstorm 3 dev: 'Racing genre is stuck in a rut'

... PM Evolution says racing has had "a disappointing few years" The racing genre has had "a disappointing few years", according to Motorstorm Apocalypse's assistant game director, Simon Barlow. According to Barlow, more and more people are moving to action and FPS games instead of racing. "The racing genre has had a disappointing few years," Barlow told CVG. "You can look up any sales figures and even extremely high rated racing titles haven't sold as perhaps they should have done or as perhaps they deserve and so it's in a bit of a rut." "I think genres are cyclical and I'm not sure why that is, I'm not sure why people have moved away from racing games," he continued. "Perhaps the emergence of the first person shooter on consoles, a lot of people have graduated towards action games and that sort of thing." Of course, Barlow is hoping that Motorstorm Apocalypse will go some way to pulling people back to the racing genre through pure, unadulterated entertainment. ...

[Ref (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250510?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSSRef)]

[Colin Berry]

Colin went to Bizzare Creations before Xmas last year and has been working on the recently released racing game BLUR, which might account for some of the similarities between it and HD.

Two other ex SL staff ended up joining him after being retrenched in the SL shake up earlier this year.

nearly... but not quite :p

I left sony in december and joined bizarre creations at the end of january. I am working on a project that is currently unannounced, I did no work what so ever on Blur (although I do like it, its not wipeout and its not meant to be, but it is fun). However, Karl Jones who worked on Pure, Pulse, HD and then as lead on Fury (and is the best designer I've worked with) joined bizarre last summer and he did work on blur :D but not me, I'm on something else. There are a few of us here though, from sony, and its proving to be a great place to work. And if I am allowed a tiny bit of arrogance, sonys loss is bizarres gain, because Karl and I (alongside clark davies who left sony 2yrs+ ago) we were the wipeout design team and had been for a long LONG time, and they let us walk away to a company down the road that also has a strong history in racing games.


from a personal point of view it took me maybe 5 nearly 6 years to work out what I wanted to do once we'd done Pure. I enjoyed making pulse and HD, and doing other bits and bobs, but I really realised my ambition early on, which was cool, but also left me without a prime focus or direction at times. In the past 12-18months a few things nearly happened that I'd been really excited about and they never came to fruition, but I have finally begun working out what type of game I'd like to make, what type of game is in my head in the same way Pure was from day zero. I have one game in there that I know given the opportunity I could make and it would be awesome, we'd deliver a 90%+ game because I have the final vision of the game in my head, I can virutally play the game in my head, and I've not had that clarity since Pure.
Whether I'll ever get to do the projects in my head, I'm not sure, but I'm trying to find several so that hopefully one might come off sometime down the line. In the meantime I am enjoying not working on a racing game! Because I've begun learning again, and have gotten a little bit of my mojo back.

[stin]

Colin, just one question for you, do you ever sleep?! or are you into a :bat?



stevie:g