The catch-up system and the Catch-Up Challenge

[xyntacx]

Does anyone know how the catch-up system works? If you drive really slow in a race, all the other ships (AI) will drive slow as well, which I guess everone must have noticed by now. But there are a number of other things which I suspect have something to do with the catch-up system:


The ships (AI) have a minimum time they can reach
If you race faster than the speed required for the AI's minimum time, they go much slower the last round.
If you get to blow away the fastest ship early on, it seem to slow down the overall speed of the pack.
If you destroy the last ship (or the slowest?) on Phantom speed, you may as well restart the race as your chances to win just evaporated together with your contestant.


Anyone else noticed these things, or are my observations purely coincidental? Is the speed of the computer's ships regulated by the difference between the first ship (AI) and the last ship (human or AI) for instance? Could there be a maximum allowed time difference between AI's ships? Have anyone of you found some ways to exploit the catch-up system? How far behind can you be and still win due to the catch-up system?

Just for the fun of it, here's a new Zico-like challenge: Win Anulpha Pass (forward) in a Venom 3 rounds race (not online) with the slowest possible time. (A lot of barrel roll opportunities should call for some really slow winning times here.)
State your time, ship and method (e.g. lurking behind or waiting at start, or any other), and rank for that race. Add comments as you like.

My worst winning time yet:
2.16.36 - Goteki 45 - waited at start for 23 sec - Ranked 181313 - got missiled, no quakes, no rolls on ramp

[ACE-FLO]

So um, we're supposed to come 1st with the slowest possible time - in the slowest speed class? pfft... not for me, I fear it'll bleed any skill I may have amassed to date. Sorry...

[xyntacx]

Haha! Let us change the speed class then. Flash or Rapier could work as well. But I'd stick to really really slow. Turtle challenge this is. It is as fun as the Zico challenge. Even more fun I'd say. Got weapons you know.

[abukii]

Just out of curiosity, what level of difficulty are you playing on? I dont experience any of that.

[leungbok]

Got weapons you know.
In that case, eliminator is the right mode to play, still fun in venom, you don't (musn't) have to be fast you can even go backwards without receiving flaming messages ;) but you must stay close of your opponents.

[xyntacx]

@abukii - I play on Elite difficulty. But seriously, you must have experienced that the AI times are slower when you are slow? And vice versa (upto AI's limit)?

As for the challenge, play on Elite difficulty.

@leungbok - I know, of course. Guess I should have split the post in two, one for discussing the catch-up system, and one other for the challenge (wouldn't post the challenge then, I guess. Just threw it in for the fun of it.)

[SaturnReturn]

I do think there's some catch up system. I've messed up quite badly sometimes against the elite AI and still come back from it. Probably badly enough that I wouldn't have almost come back from it in a race against zoners.

[xyntacx]

Yes, got to be a catch-up system. The minimum time I've seen AI do on Venom Anulpha Pass Forward I think was 1.53.80 - and I won with the time 2.16.36 after waiting for 23 sec at start. So, there is clearly a catch-up system.

Also the slowing down effect for AI in the last round I felt was most prominent in Phantom races.

[ACE-FLO]

I dont really play offline much, preferring to go straight online and learn from 'the school of hard knocks' lol, i don't even know half the tracks in HD FURY, so I fear I won't be much help anyway.

However, i'll keep my eye out for this thread. The results should be interesting to see :)

[Connavar]

Yeah there is a small rubber banding, I think the AI can go 10-15% faster/slower
depending on your position, still you can have a huge lead over the 2nd ship
if you play nicely like : bomb/mines followed by a turbo/shortcut and a few BR
on the last lap. (Only checked this in Elite difficulty)

[xyntacx]

@Connavar - Cool! Please post your time as well! :hyper

I'm starting to think that there is a catch-up system on the tournament level in season campaigns as well. Seems like the leading ships do worse if you are behind in the tournament. Checking my tournament scores (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159377#post159372) from gaining the elite season legend trophy, I see that I had high ranks in two last races after falling behind, and Sol 2 (last course) was so difficult for me at the time.

[Aeroracer]

catch up systems are really common in racing games have been for long time..not all of them have them..hard to say about wipeout..

from my experience i found on AI elite that racers would come in on a certain time window for example 1min30 secs to 1 min40 secs so it was a bit of luck involved in the race plus what impact you make which is little as the weapon effects didnt seam to make much difference in AI elite for me it was just be fast and race and hope you got a race where they all finish slow..i may be wrong but its how it seamed to me when i did my elite races..:nod

[xyntacx]

Great comment jasmin-jade, I think we are both right here. There are races where AI is slower, I agree, but that is due to ship selection in the races, I think. There are 12 ships and only 8 can participate, which means that the absence of Icaras, Triakis and Piranha will make an impact on the overall speed of the heat. Give the heat a 23 sec lead on venom, and you'll still win with any set up. On Phantom, you can give 5-6 sec lead, short it down to 2 sec before last round, and win! Maybe more if you're a top pilot.

Your experience of having the AI coming in on you at 1m30 to 1m40 makes sense, why, because on Phantom, you'll often be behind first round, AI slows down, but as you progress, there's more rubber to let go, and they'll approach you again, but only as far as their minimum time allows, which gave me a feeling of ships slowing down again the last round.

[QjonPL]

because on Phantom, you'll often be behind first round
Exactly - when playing with Elite AI even if you have Perfect Start, it's hard to go onto first position on first lap - comparing to multiplayer races, when last player can get on top in first or second weapon pad :D

[IH8YOU]

Ahh elite AI - I remember back (over a year ago) I got a 1st place global on Chengou project fwd trying to complete "arcade perfect".... But still managed to finish in last.

True story. :turd

[skuddington]

I thought it was odd that i needed to get a top 250 global rank time on chengou forward to win that race! took me forever.....