Avoid getting stuck in the battle....

[karsten_beoulve]

Lately i've improved a great deal, but i don't get much better results because i keep getting stuck with slower contenders... what are your suggestions about the mater?

BTW with slower i mean really SLOWER; people that would end 15 or so seconds behind... It's annoing to lose races you clearly have the potential to easily win :robot...

I'm usually using Icaras, and it's a nice ship that allows me to "escape" from mess if i can run away from the initial mess...

Should i try a ship with stronger boost to get away fast? how do you deal with this matter?

thanks in advance,

karsten

[Vartazian]

Dont fall behind at the start. The Hardest part of the race is getting in front. Then Making the Gap larger is the second half.

Master your weapons. use them. Setting the other person thats hindering you the most on the back is Priority #1

[karsten_beoulve]

thanks for your answer. how i'm supposed to do that? even if i make a "boost start" and take the speed pads i rarely get far enough to escape a missile... i usually have great starts, but get missled/quaked right away... and after the first missle i'm in the pack and everything can happen.

what is a good weapon strategy? i mean do you keep absorbing/cicling the weapons constantly, or do you keep a nice research missle for the good times?

BTW Vartazian, i saw you records around! you're an insane player! I'd like to meet you online sometimes... maybe checking your way of play i can learn something! will you add me to your friends?

[jimsin]

I'm not on the same level as the likes of Vartazian etc, but I'm gradually working on being able to break the pack when racing against less gifted players.

I'm sure every track is different, but certainly there are strategies -

At Chenghou Project (fwd) I try to hit both the speed pads going into the hairpin, then get a barrel roll twice before going into the shallow downhill corner - it's risky because it lowers the shields, but if you can get to the end of that corner, then you can absorb the weapon pad at the end of it - which is sometimes enough to get to the end of the lap with a good margin.

There's a good shortcut round the first corner in Ubermall (fwd) that gets you out ahead - I haven't perfected it yet, but it's a top priority just now.

On Moa Therma (fwd) Everybody tends to take the same line through the magstrip, and you can't see far ahead - so mines/bombs tend to work a treat - as do rockets, although they tend to fall away to the right (not sure why - is the right not 'up'? - haven't checked properly) - so you have to adjust for that.

In Anulpha Pass (fwd) - there's nothing better than picking up a boost on the first corner, using it in the dip (Beat Zico style), barrel rolling on landing, and then barrel rolling again over the rise and down into the narrow section. (can pickup absorb on the next two pads without losing much time).

At Sebenco Climb it pays to know exactly when to turn, and be good at using side shift - also a few oppportunities to barrel roll near the start can often see you reaching the long back straight ahead of the pack.

I think there's always an aspect of luck/risk involved - but you can definitely do stuff to maximise your chances - I rarely absorb a shield on the first lap unless absolutely necessary, because it's always quite hectic, and more often than not you'll have somebody trying to eliminate you.

[RedScar]

The first lap makes or breaks you when facing skilled phantom racers, and it comes down to a lucky weapon pickup. Other then that you just need to get a clean line and hit your BRs.

To this date I still can't do either of these, and maybe win 1 of my 20-30 races in a session.

[yeldar2097]

Dont fall behind at the start. The Hardest part of the race is getting in front. Then Making the Gap larger is the second half.

Master your weapons. use them. Setting the other person thats hindering you the most ton the back is Priotity #1

Alternatively (if you're not a weapons crazed maniac like Vart), you can just BR left-right-left-and-centre till your in the lead. No violence necessary :g

[karsten_beoulve]

i'm mostly playing rapier and flash :P i lack the reflexes for phantom... even if i'm alone and time trialing! i guess i don't have what it takes to race at fasters speed :'(

So sometimes it's ok to blame bad luck? Yesterday i really felt plagued by bad luck... and i've lost a few races i could have easily won (and this is quite rare :D )...

in any case, most of the time it's all up to a lucky draw? What would be the best ships to escape the mess? big boost ones or fast ones?

also how much does a big boost helps you?

i've checked the WOHD ship comparisons thread, and the boost seems to make so little difference! The top speed instead seems to really show off during a race...

One thing that i can't help thinking is if it's a good thing to start first or not, and how to behave accordingly. I mean, when you start first you have a really good chance to "escape", but what are you supposed to do? run, BRinnig and hunting all the speed pads, or try to run and catch up all the weapons pad to avoid being shot?

Sometimes it seems to me that the biggest advantage is to start in one of the lower positions, so that you can dodge the first exploding part of the race and save even some weapons letting other players shooting people in front of you...

so in short how do you behave when you start first or last?

lastly, for escaping from the mess you suggest to BR away, it's a tech that i really often use, but is it a good idea to do it?

I mean, it lowers your shields quite a lot, and if by mere bad luck you a struck by a missile or even just shot by an annoying cannon shot that makes you miss a speed pad, you would be in the battle with half shields or less...

So what path do you choose? safe or risky?

PS: MANY thanks to all the people answering and helping me out! this place ROCKS!

[abukii]

I dont lack reflexes to play Phantom but always seem to be back of the pack, rarely placing 1st. I blame one of 2 things:
Internet connection (doubtful)
My TV (most likely)

I notice considerably less, if not any, lag input on the bigger screen tv than my 15". Its actually noticeable on the small screen:?

[Aeroracer]

I really dont think ship makes any real difference unless you are a elite player on phantom and you need a particular edge.such as an edge on speed/shields boost ECT.

What i have learned from players like varti who domonstrated so well to me is get that first weapons pad on the track and make it count and use it to build a lead
Also what yeldar says BR like crazy to get ahead, once you are ahead you get first picks on the pads so you can heal your ship back up if you are drianed.

sometimes though life just suks and this may not happen.Worst scenario is being just behind another player who is good enough to take all the pads and leave nothing. I will slow down so i can get these pads as a nice rocket or boost will leave you at an advantage for the sake of a small distance lost.

Also positioning is important use other ships as covers to protect against some weapons.Dont fly directly behind a player who is passing over a pad.he/she may have just picked up mines.Dont always shoot off your weapons, think how you can maximise them,,say mines/bomb a blind corner or chicane..or a cluseter of spped pads..

When in a pack of racers i want to break from i try to ignore them and think speed lap and focus on my line..doing this i find with all the bumping and bashing i come out ok and not back to front on a wall.

The ultimate way to win your flash rapier matches would be to play phantom and step down.
I play phantom but whenever i step down which isnt often cos i hate slowness of other classes i generally do well cos everything is so slow and i plenty of time to think.
Phantom isnt for people with fast reflex's.everyone was crap at it when they started but just practice.
I dont believe in raw talent it's just good old fasshioned training and dedication and taking help and advice from all the top players who post here.
I couldnt win a venom novice race 2 months ago now i win phantom elite race and i have long nails to contend with as well..

good luck and stick with it you will be top players soon enough.:nod:nod

[Darkdrium777]

I'll say it now again: the stats mean almost entirely nothing to you.
What you want to find is a ship with which you are comfortable with. Every single ship has a different feeling, generally higher handling ships will be more jumpy and nervous, while lower handling ships will be more stable through turns. You want to find the ship that feels best to you, if you like giving small inputs and counter steer a lot, but have this feeling of being very agile, consider a high handling ship, however if you like going into a turn and steering all the way through it, consider a lower handling ship.

Top speed makes virtually no difference, it's only a 11km/h difference from 70 to 100. Not much when you consider the ships go at around 400+ km/h, and 800km/h in Phantom.

You should not look at shield so much, if you get good it doesn't matter except for the most heavy weapons (Plasma, Rocket, Mines...)

Thrust is a preference, if you want to get out early, there's only one option: Goteki 45. If that doesn't matter so much, you can look at other ships. Keep in mind thrust also affects how fast you recover from weapons and crashes.

[Aeroracer]

so true what DD says..i used to be always asking whats best ship..what best ship..but they are all ok..i fly all of them well.they all can win races and are well balanced.
:nod

[OBH]

I find to avoid the early melee you should try to make good use of whatever your first weapon happens to be. If your in 3rd and get mines for example, try waiting for somone to throw a missile at you and drop the mines to destroy it. If your in 1st, youve picked up rockets, and the next weapon pad isnt for some distance, for god sake keep the wepon and dont just absorb it :) you never know who could potentially come flying past.

Another good point is if your in 2nd and the guy in 1st gets the first weapon pad, sometimes its best not to overtake him immediately, especially in the early part of a race people arent so bothered about using a quake just to take out 1 person. Then innevitably the person in 4th rockets you and you have a MOUNTAIN to climb to get back to first.

If a race is REALLY close ive kept the same shield for entire laps before, jsut so when the inevitable happens your okay. Shooting people is fun, but i love it when 8th place fires a quake to take out the whole field, and you sail on through with your shield, safe and sound :)

Its an old cliche, but races cant be won on the first corner, but can certainly be lost :)

[Vartazian]

Yeah like Jasmin Said. Very important. Never for ANY REASON. DIRECTLY FOLLOW BEHIND ANOTHER PILOT. You will learn that humbling lesson wiht bombs to the face.

[IH8YOU]

Actually - I find the best way to avoid bombs is to do exactly that - stay right up their @$$. If you're more than a ship-length behind them, then, for the love of spaghetti - stay off line. But up front and personal - you can pass the bomb before it "arms".

Mines can be a different story @ point blank - but even with them, I can squeak by if I stay right up there.

[RedScar]

You've never flown behind Vart have you IH8YOU?

[Vartazian]

For IH8YOU's Comment

When he says RIGHT BEHIND he means Like literally on you screen You are RIGHT IN THEIR TAILPIPE. That way when they drop it the time of lag means the bomb "appears" behind you. It can works but its too reliant on a unreliabel source.

My point still stands. Dont take a racing line behind someone.

[karsten_beoulve]

I find to avoid the early melee you should try to make good use of whatever your first weapon happens to be. If your in 3rd and get mines for example, try waiting for somone to throw a missile at you and drop the mines to destroy it. If your in 1st, youve picked up rockets, and the next weapon pad isnt for some distance, for god sake keep the wepon and dont just absorb it :) you never know who could potentially come flying past.

Another good point is if your in 2nd and the guy in 1st gets the first weapon pad, sometimes its best not to overtake him immediately, especially in the early part of a race people arent so bothered about using a quake just to take out 1 person. Then innevitably the person in 4th rockets you and you have a MOUNTAIN to climb to get back to first.

If a race is REALLY close ive kept the same shield for entire laps before, jsut so when the inevitable happens your okay. Shooting people is fun, but i love it when 8th place fires a quake to take out the whole field, and you sail on through with your shield, safe and sound :)

Its an old cliche, but races cant be won on the first corner, but can certainly be lost :)

Great suggestion, i'll try to keep it up to it! but sometimes i guess you can't escape your destiny...

i was first with a confortable 1,5 sec advantage on first lap and got quaked outside the track, re-entered and got rocketed by the 2nd or 3rd racer, overtaken by other 2 and missiled to death by 6th.. BOOOOM :robot

beside that i guess that with this suggestions i'll try to make the most of not unlucky races :)

in any case, You guys rock!

BTW i quite disagree on the ship's matter. It REALLY makes a difference in lower classes like venom and flash those 11km/h are what will make you opponents disappear at the orizon...

[yeldar2097]

BR and lines make more of a difference tbh, even on the lower classes.

Definately agree with OBH's advice, even if i don't put it into practice...great tips :+

[OBH]

happy to help :)

autopilots are another good one to pull you out of a sticky situation - Use autopilot before you get hit, and youll grind to a halt anyway, use it immediately after your hit, and you'll get up to speed in no time!

Had to explain to Mad-Ice only recently why his quakes and missiles seemed to be doing nothing to me. No cheating going on, just good use of shields, boosts and autopilots :) Even the immense stopping power of a rocket cant keep you stationary if you use a boost after being hit....... granted sometimes it leads me to flying off the the track though :) but a risk well worth taking!

[billychanxtr33m]

some general tips-
the best defence is a good offense. be sure you are attacking first. if you are missing with rockets, mines, ect... you arent being as efficeint as you could be.

BRs seperate the pros from the noobs. the best way to get away from "less skilled" opponents is to BR like crazy.

always make sure you block weapons pannels if you are being followed closely.

if you have mines or a bomb, block the boost pannels. and if you are being followed closely, be sure you use the bomb after you go over a boost to get the extra seperation you might need to actualy connect the bomb.

[yeldar2097]

or use no bombs to ensure you don't end up with surly mafia gangstaz on your doorstep ready to give you a thorough going over :P

Back on track: For me it depends where I start (since harimau has 0 thrust)
At the front - Go for weapons pads so nobody can shoot you.
In the middle - Ignore the weapons pads at pretend your doing a speed lap.
At the back- A combination of the above (since by the time you get to it, the first pad might have re-primed itself).

[OBH]

Thats a good point, the ship makes a huge difference (at least to me) on how i approach the beginning of the race.

If im icaras its speed pads all the way, in contrast to the fury mirage ship which seems to absolutely fly off the line, so its head straight for a weapon.

[SaturnReturn]

jasmin-jade wrote: I really dont think ship makes any real difference unless you are a elite player on phantom and you need a particular edge.such as an edge on speed/shields boost ECT.

ECT? Ships can give electric shock therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy) now? :?

billychanxtr33m wrote: the best defence is a good offense. be sure you are attacking first. if you are missing with rockets, mines, ect...

You see! It's already spreading like hellfire. I should have stepped in earlier to prevent this from becoming another incident like the great apostrophe outbreak of the last couple of year's.;)

[Lance]

Not to mention The Great Comma Famine. :D

[Hellfire_WZ]

You see! It's already spreading like hellfire

You rang?

[DISRUPTOR]

The above advice is good, but the biggest factor that keeps a player in the middle of the pack race after after race is their current skill level.

[YouAreFubar]

There's some pretty useful tips on here. I don't think there's much else worth saying apart from what has been said already (but ill say it anyway:p):

I think learning BR's is key to getting in quicker laps, and in turn beating your opponents. This can give you a bigger edge on the slower classes than on Phantom.

Speed isn't everything when choosing your ship, even on the slower classes. Find a ship you are comfortable with. You'll find the people with the quickest times aren't necessarily flying the fastest ships. If you get bashed around a lot, are a magnet for other peoples weapons, or have difficulty avoiding walls, consider a ship with more thrust so recovery is quicker.

Maximizing your weapons potential is key, don't just fire off or absorb if it isn't useful the moment you pick it up. Bombs and mines are best in blind spots or over groups of speed pads or even weapons pads if you need to.

[abukii]

I agree completely with YAF except with the absorbing bit. Dont be afraid to absorb a panel, there are always more, but at the same token, if you are at a descent Shield level, get a pickup and there are no panels for some x ammount of distance, then by all means hang on to it.

[billychanxtr33m]

I should have stepped in earlier to prevent this from becoming another incident like the great apostrophe outbreak of the last couple of year's.;)

apostrophe's can be contagiou's

[Vartazian]

I think I know what im talking about when it comes to Weapons :P

[karsten_beoulve]

thanks for you suggestions, yesterday i had my first 3 wins in a ROW! i was about to have a party :D it's rare enough for me to win...

In any case i've started using Quirex+ lately; i've found out that it behaves well, and that its more than average shields help me BR a little more and with less risk of being eliminated... also the only ships that can take me over (without weapons) in speed easily are icaras(es)... against the other contenders if i get some advantage on the lead i keep it until the race end. Also that little extra boost helps me quite nicely at the race start, expecially if i can get the "perfect start".

In any case thanks, i feel i'm improving lately and it's certainly because of this place and online videos :)

BTW, is there a webpage with details of each track? like pictures with shown where are the pads and similia?

[Mietepiet]

Just read this thread and got lot's of usefull info out of it.
I was only missing 2 links I found in another thread:

Yeldar's BR'ing like crazy aproach (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149491&postcount=843)
And
Saturn's doing it all aproach (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149719&postcount=846)
note: watch how he uses his missiles on the 1st Anulpha pass lap

There's lot's of more usefull video's in that thread.
@the guys posting those video's :+:+:+

[jed_tb]

note: watch how he uses his missiles on the 1st Anulpha pass lap


thats interesting and (IMO) one of the big differences between the elite racers out there and the average - when and how to use your weapons effectively.

if that was me i would of fired that missile as soon as it got the first lock, but now that iv watched the video it makes sense to use it on the overhang to try and get the opposing ship to fall of the track - genius!

although its a risk, bc thats no pick ups in just under a lap with BR thrown in , thats gotta hurt a little.:cowboy

[yeldar2097]

From recent experience I've discovered that if you are racing someone one-on-one (i know this is about avoiding the mess but whatever ;) ), if you have less thrust than them, start shooting as soon as possible :P

I tried my normal techniques against djkyoto and throughout the entire session I didn't fire a single weapon - he won 90% of the races...

Ok so that could just be because he's better than me but I'd like to think we're pretty even. In this situation weapons = win :g

gg kyoto, taught me a lesson, good n proper ;)