SL leaderboard post boost-select-boost

[OBH]

For anyone who doesnt know - this is boost-select
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MttTY3GotRk(Our good friend Leungbok with a mighty fine example of it :))

This feature was then replaced ina recent update, with needing to hold down a button for a few seconds.

Anyway, sorry if im a bit slow to this, I only really got to delve back into WipeoutHD and Fury the past week, but I was thinking surely SL should reset the speed lap times after having changed this feature??

I have nothing against the times currently set using this method, many of mine were, but if current leaderboard times cannot be beaten doesnt it makes the competition on the Speed Lap leaderboard completely redundant??

I feel robbed to be honest, why bother ever doing SL again on a number of tracks if i know its physically impossible to beat my record.

[Darkdrium777]

I guess that's what you get when you used this boost reset feature in order to get faster times. It's kind of a lesson: "you shouldn't have used it."
Some people haven't learned though and are still using it...
IMO they should wipe the leaderboards clean of all the modes that have had glitches in them: Zone, Speed Lap and Single Race.

[pirahpac]

its still possible everywhere ( new wr 17.40 vineta and me on moa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIK_XZQJZGQ ) but very hard ..very

[RedScar]

Just don't wipe the detonator boards right DD777 ;P I worked to hard to hard to beat your Pro Tozo score.

Not to start up this arguement again (and thus starting it again), but BSB and anything similar to it are not ment to be used. The boosting with nose up at the start of a lap to gain just enough height to BR like in Barnsters last video of his venom TJ speedlap (I can't remember who found this) I'm cool with, as it doesn't use any method that you couldn't already do pre to SL introducing the boost replacement.

[OBH]

its still possible everywhere ( new wr 17.40 vineta and me on moa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIK_XZQJZGQ) but very hard ..very

Didnt know its still possible.

Dont you think thats just going against the whole idea though? I mean they removed the feature because it was used in a manner that they hadnt intended, yet your still capable of doing it.

Im not going against the skill required to do it, i mean i watched that video and that really does look tough, but if it was difficult before, now only a select few diehards would still be competing for SL records. Should an entire game mode be reserved for the ones determined to pull off a trick SL went out of their way to try and remove??

Does the Moa Rev time not bother you at all pirahpac? I mean a piece of the track has been changed, making it IMPOSSIBLE to beat. Wheres the point in that? They wouldnt change an F1 circuit layout then keep the records from the original.

@ Darkdrium777
I agree glitched tables should be deleted, I dont agree with the "you shouldnt have used it though" part. I bet you use jumps during multiplayer races? People will always try to be faster.

[Lance]

This is an old argument started about the oldest versions of WO; do you do what the game makes possible or do you limit yourself to what your personal sense of honour allows? Which means that people with different ideas of what's honourable produce a non-level playing field. An issue which pretty much can never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[pirahpac]

for moa vineta sl i think its more easy..cuz i put the "select "just near the X ( so my finger hit 2 ..so no need to think to reput a boost..almost automatic )..ap rev is still possible too..ub too..the hardest is ap forward ..i did my 20.24 with..but akfurtif did his 20.08 without ..so.;i dont think any challenge is dead .just training is the key mate.if i can u can ..no? ps : hmm i dont think in other wipeout the boost before startline was intented for do it / and moa rev = no bsb .;just a big bug . i dont use this longcut because its the only boost br totally random. i have a good 22.52 with just a little boost br over the mag ( not in the sky or space like the longcut )

[XBARNSTERX]

I've already said that i think the tables should be wiped, as it is impossible to beat some records that used it. However alot of time was spent by people setting their times, would it be fair? It was talked about being able to delete your own records, any you felt where glitched or used BsB. I think thats the best idea, but then again that wouldnt take all BsB records out of the tables.

Dont be discouraged trying to better yours BsB times though, since the update i've bettered quite a few without this method and come real close to some with the new ships :)

[andybob35]

where's the rep feature gone? OBH has got it spot on! Id rather see a table where time for top ten are decided by skill and 00.00.10's and not like moa rev SL... luxoflux of all people should know better.... :eek anyway as it can still be done on some tracks i don't see why the desperation to get a faster time when its clear very few racers are now attempting (beating current SL records) it now... its an exploit for the few who choose to use it, and those who do are comparing their time with other BSB people and not people who 'just play the game'... :bomb

[Lance]

~~~~.if i can u can ..no?

No.


:g

[pirahpac]

discouraged me ? im just discouraged by peoples who spend 10 h by day in all class all the summer ..

[XBARNSTERX]

I'm not saying it did discourage you or anyone, just if anyone is theres no need to be.

[pirahpac]

dont worry lol.;all here know i suck in english :D ( and my traductor dont use any boost .;he suck too )

[Darkdrium777]

OBH: You shouldn't have used it because it's clear from a design standpoint that the boost reset was never meant to be a way to achieve faster times. The very fact that they tried (and failed, admittedly) to remove it from the game is proof enough that you should have never even thought about using it in this way.
However what is done is done, and now for a very big part of the game it is impossible for almost anyone but the aliens/robots (bar useless qualifications) to achieve times faster than their previous records. Thus, my suggestions to wipe the boards for Speed Lap as well as Zone (Anulpha Pass) and Single Race (Every single one because each has glitched times due to Spectator Mode.)
The fact that I am barrel rolling off jumps has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. If you are even trying to discredit my point by saying I barrel roll or use shortcuts, you will fail. Simply because shortcuts are an acknowledged technique by SL (See "Amphi-scenic Route") and barrel rolls are an inherent part of the gameplay of WipEout HD. The boost reset stands apart, because as I've explained multiple times before, it was not designed to be used in such a way (And see that SL agrees because they have modified it).
People will always try to be faster, yes. They should also try to use common sense once in a while. The simple fact that SL has modified the feature in order to render it harder to use should be a clear and obvious message saying: "you should stop using the boost reset to gain faster times." But people have not stop, so now where are we at: a select few are able to remain competitive due to their fast alien hands with 56 fingers each, while the rest are not doing anything.

[djKyoto]

+1 with Osama here. I never knew about the BSB untill just before it got removed. Now i'll know i'll never get close to some of the Speed lap times posted no matter how hard I try. Kinda unfair that it got exploited somewhat as cool at it is.

[Frances_Penfold]

This seems like uncharted waters.

There are lots of cases where there are exploitable factors in racing games. Off the top of my head...

1. Prolonged rocket boost (PRB) in Mario Kart DS... if you get a perfect start at the race line and hit nonstop mini-turbos, you can ride across all terrain (grass, sand, etc.) with no slow down.

2. Zig-zag mini-turbos in Mario Kart Super Circuit... if you push back and forth fast enough on the d-pad, you can charge mini-turbos by sliding in both directions rather than a single direction, as originally intended.

3. Snaking and space-flight in F-zero GX.

In most of these cases, competitive time trial fan sites made "split tables" for folks that did or did not want to use the exploit. This allowed folks to participate in the way they choose-- many folks play both ways.

The difference is that now, with digital distribution, developers can repeatedly patch their games to fix potential exploits or even alter ship stats or course features. So as is the case with the B-S-B, time trials records that were set in the past may not be comparable to those set now :brickwall

Personally, I think it SUCKS to have key features of a racing game changed after its initial release. I totally understand why it makes sense from a developer/publisher/marketer perspective. But it really eliminates the "level playing field" that home consoles previously provided to gamers.

[lunar]

What was the Moa Rev shortcut or glitch? I`m interested to know that.

Although it looks like they might need another update to really get rid of BSB if they want to, SL have done some of the work to fix some of the bugs, glitches, exploits and what they seem to see as "undesirable techniques" in the game, so it would be rational to fix the tables when that work is done, or all that work is fairly pointless. If you`re not going to sort the tables then why get rid of BSB in the first place? You might as well just let people carry on doing it. Just working on the game and not the tables is only half the job - the tables need to be about reflecting performances in the game you have, not a different and older version of it.

Perhaps Sony think that such a small percentage of players ever get concerned about this sort of thing that it simply isn`t worth the time and money to fix it all properly.

But I do agree with OBH about a scoreboard reset. I can`t think of any other way to get rid to get rid of undesirable results and scores that would really work. It would be unfair to some people with great times, but how could you work out a more complicated solution, getting rid of unfair times only, without it being a nightmare in the end. Who decides ultimately what should be deleted and what should not? It`s impossible.

Also how does a reset actually work? How do you stop old times from just being uploaded again?

[yeldar2097]

well since SL have blocked the hole I reckon it's a glitch because they're perfectly aware that shortcuts exist and I reckon that one wasn't meant to be there...

tbh as it stands i'd rather have leaderboards that actually work as opposed to cleansed boards...this sporadic updatage is getting on my nerves...

[XBARNSTERX]

Yeah first priority should be making sure they actually update. Anulpha, metropia, chenghou, sebenco both forward and reverse,dont update aswell as amp rev, modesto rev, tech rev, mallavo and either syncopia or pro tozo just wont update at all.:naughty

[OBH]

If it was considered a glitch isnt that even more of a reason to remove the times??
It is really harsh on those who really pushed to master the technique, and I cant stress enough how impressed I am by the skills required to do them, but you just cant have record times topping a leaderboard that use a feature that no longer exists. Its like removing boosts as an item altogether yet keeping multiplayer times the same. It just doesnt work.

@lunar
The Moa Therma Shortcut for you mate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bn953QVaZU) :)

@ Darkdrium777
Theres no need to take an agressive "moral highground" on the issue mate. Dont take it so personally, Im just saying theres not much difference between boosting over half a track mid-race, and using select to earn a free barrel roll. Theres no need to to be so quick to damn those who strive to be quicker.

As for the "Amphi-scenic Route", yes it does prove SL had shortcuts in mind, but thats the only built-in-shortcut im aware of (though correct me if im wrong), and im sure your well aware of the many more that exist. That is just one example.

@pirahpac
We might not have always seen eye-to-eye, but I cant help but admire the dedication mate :)

edit:
Didnt realise syncopia or pro tozo dont update at all. Thats shocking.

[pirahpac]

i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order ;)

[lunar]

Thanks for the link, OBH. It`s a very Wipeout 2097 flying through the scenery shortcut, that one. I would imagine that SL dislike that one because you actually go through what is supposedly solid matter, and that is unrealistic and doesn`t pass QA these days.

I agree that discussion of resets is fairly academic if the leaderboards don`t really update in the first place. Ever since Pure with its elimination bug in multiplayer race times there seem to have been nasty bugs in the game records and the way they are recorded locally and online.

[shapealot]

havnt we bin through this before in my thread?

i agree with pirhapac the top pilots will still be on top im just not looking forward to workin my way up from the bottom again ;)

[RobCoxy]

I would imagine that SL dislike that one because you actually go through what is supposedly solid matter, and that is unrealistic and doesn`t pass QA these days.

They should remove the boost-br on AP Rev aswell then as you can go straight through the wall there ;).

[XBARNSTERX]

They should remove the boost-br on AP Rev aswell then as you can go straight through the wall there ;).

Only just though mate. Have to be careful not to hit the wall and besides thats not the best place to use the boost for speed lapping/ tt, but i see your point you can go through the wall so that needs fixing too.;)

[GreenPhazon]

I guess that's what you get when you used this boost reset feature in order to get faster times. It's kind of a lesson: "you shouldn't have used it."
Some people haven't learned though and are still using it...
IMO they should wipe the leaderboards clean of all the modes that have had glitches in them: Zone, Speed Lap and Single Race.

Surely SR times are based solely on the luck of the weapons draw?

[silverfoxy]

Just to clarify on the Zone scores

Its Syncopia and Mallavol that don't update at all.

I did a PB on Pro yesterday and it updated in minutes.

at the moment I'm only playing pro and C12 of the pure4 as seriously whats the point when the leaderboards don't bother. I tried Connavar's site and updated a load of records and then when I checked they hadn't changed either and just reverted to my default score.

[Darkdrium777]

Surely SR times are based solely on the luck of the weapons draw?Go look at the single race leaderboards and come back again. Look at every single track. Phantom of course.
If anything, it's much worse than the speed lap leaderboards.

OBH: I am not aggressive, I am not damning all the people who used the BSB when it was available. I am just saying, they shouldn't have used it because it's just common sense. It's obvious that you are exploiting the boost reset to get a faster time when you do it. Does it take skill, I'd say yes, but it's not a legit technique. Again, like I've already said multiple times on this issue: I'm not attacking the people who used it (The French Fourbe are still highly skilled players that I enjoy talking/racing with), I am only talking about the technique.
But there is a huge difference between boosting and flying in the air (Without going through walls, as that is also glitching) and doing a barrel roll, and exploiting the boost reset feature. One is a valid racing technique, the other is an exploit. So that's a huge difference. If you can't see that, and if anyone else can't, I guess that's why they are still using the boost reset exploit.

[Lance]

Some people believe that everything the game programming allows is legitimate. And they are correct. For themselves.

Others believe that exploiting programming mistakes and oversights is a distortion of the game's intended nature. And they are correct. For themselves.

And for me, too, I think. But that is only my own personal preference.

[OBH]

i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order ;)

I dont doubt the order would be the same :g

But take yourself for example - a keen SL enthusaist! Im guessing your not ranked no.1 on every single SL board, if theres a track you desperately want to improve upon, but you know yourself that its 100% impossible now the bsb feature has been removed, does that not annoy you....? I mean, you will never, EVER be no.1 on that track :)

I think ina nutshell, i was hoping for a surge of new records when fury was released. That little bit extra speed allowing peope to push the times down that little bit more.

If certain times cannot be improved upon, i dont know, it feels really.. hollow....

[Rathboneski]

for the people that say the exploit has been taken away.

It hasn't.

You can still do the trick on all tracks and speeds. Granted a 'small handful' of these it is harder to do, but STILL possible.

I have beat quite a few of my times on various speeds of speedlap on many tracks so I believe that pretty much all records are still beatable and people will still use this trick. For example the icarus fury ship got more thrust and I found I could straight away tell it was quicker than my pre-fury ghosts.

No need to wipe speedlap times at all imo.

[pirahpac]

@ obh:the bsb is still possible EVERYWHERE ..so dont cry plz .;u just need training..and maybe some more skill..off

[Frances_Penfold]

If you`re not going to sort the tables then why get rid of BSB in the first place? You might as well just let people carry on doing it. Just working on the game and not the tables is only half the job - the tables need to be about reflecting performances in the game you have, not a different and older version of it.

I agree with this. Fixing the exploits without reseting the time trial leaderboards is worse than not fixing the exploits at all, IMO.



Also how does a reset actually work? How do you stop old times from just being uploaded again?

I am curious about this too. Does each record have a date-stamp associated with it, such that only records set after the leaderboard reset will be accepted? That would mean that pilots would have to redo ALL of their records. It would also suggest a possible way to cheat the system, i.e., download the original version of WOHD, play it offline and set some records, then update to the newest patch. Unless each record has a date AND a WOHD version number associated with it.

I still think it would be better, from a competition perspective, to never issue gameplay-altering patches :(


Some people believe that everything the game programming allows is legitimate. And they are correct. For themselves.

Others believe that exploiting programming mistakes and oversights is a distortion of the game's intended nature. And they are correct. For themselves.


I agree with Lance. This argument about using exploits/glitches has been going on for a long, long time. What really matters is that there is a mechanism to allow people to compete on a level playing field, whether that involves split third party tables or Sony issuing new patches and resetting the record boards.


i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order ;)

I agree with this as well. As long as the playing field is more or less level, the best pilots will get the best times :)

[Darkdrium777]

I still think it would be better, from a competition perspective, to never issue gameplay-altering patches :(The thing is, the boost reset was never supposed to be gameplay altering. It still isn't supposed to be.

[Frances_Penfold]

I know, darkdrium, but the thing is... lots of racing games have mechanics/exploits in them that weren't meant to be there... snaking, PRB, ZZMTs, space-flight, short cuts based on jumping, short cuts based on falling through walls, etc.

There are *always* differences of opinion about such mechanics. What seems to matter most is that people agree to a single standard to race by-- or agree to disagree and establish split tables.

IMO what sucks about the situation with B-R-B is that Sony patched the game-- albeit imperfectly-- and then didn't reset the leaderboards. That effectively orphans EVERYBODY, people that like BRB and people that don't

For the record-- I don't like B-R-B and don't use it. I'm mostly a Pure/Pulse player though ;) I am just now going after the final trophies in the game.

[RedScar]

"I know, darkdrium, but the thing is... lots of racing games have mechanics/exploits in them that weren't meant to be there... snaking, PRB, ZZMTs, space-flight, short cuts based on jumping, short cuts based on falling through walls, etc."

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_%28online_gaming%29) Defines Exploit as:
"In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, design flaw, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers."

I don't care if it does allow you to be faster and thus the competitive spirit in all of us should embrace it, it is still an exploit and should not be used in any way shape or form. There is no reasonable rebuttal to this argument to give BSB in any of its forms legitimacy.

Shortcuts are not the same as glitches. They are perfectly legal if you can perform them using what is available to the player through the developers original game design. Using the nose down-nose up-turbo to gain the height at the start of a speed lap is a fine example of this case, where the player takes existing game play elements (turbo and ship pitch control) and uses them in an intuitive manner. BSB abuses a game mechanic in a way not originally thought out by the developers. The fact that SL changed it to deter this form of use clearly shows this.

I take after Darkdrium's arguement, which is not to take a "moral high" ground but to speak with logic and reasoning with the evidence the SL does not promote the use of BSB through its attempt to change the mechanic upon the discovery of the abuse.

Before it comes up again, my argument stands to reason that those who use BSB in the speed lap game mode are cheaters in my eyes. I back this accusation, as I do see BSB as a form of cheating. In any game I play a glitch of even the smallest scale gets a person kicked/banned from a server. Wipeout thus in my mind is set to the same standards.

The tables should be wiped and the boost replacement feature removed outright. The only two tables that should exist are those with BRs and those without BRs.

My 2 Cents

[pirahpac]

nice redscar ..im the first inventor of bsb and lot of boost br and tricks .;i am a cheater ..ok ..bye .." vive les frustres " ps : plz lance delete my account here..( im serious ) i go in the only place for cheaters like me : " wipeout arena "

[Frances_Penfold]

Before it comes up again, my argument stands to reason that those who use BSB in the speed lap game mode are cheaters in my eyes. I back this accusation, as I do see BSB as a form of cheating. In any game I play a glitch of even the smallest scale gets a person kicked/banned from a server. Wipeout thus in my mind is set to the same standards.


I see where you are coming from but, to me, this is an extreme position. As Lance said earlier, many gamers feel that they should take advantage of whatever opportunities exist in a game to play it as well as they can. I wouldn't characterize these folks as cheaters-- especially when they have been very open about what they are doing and providing assistance for other players to do the same ;)

[Aeroracer]

boost -select -boost isnt cheating..anyone could do it provided they were good enough to pull it off, wasnt easy to do..
only thing is they scrapped it 2 weeks before i began playing.now all new players will never compete against some of those times..thats an issue, that need to be sorted as its not fair.

not fair to new players to keep those old times

probally not fair to old players who made the times..

but a solution should be decided and actioned by SL:hyper:hyper

[OBH]

@ obh:the bsb is still possible EVERYWHERE ..so dont cry plz .;u just need training..and maybe some more skill..off

Mate, theres no crying going on here, its just my opinion. I've had nothing but praise you for your skill to do it, so theres no need to take the piss out of me. Was just looking for your guys opinions on the matter.

jasmin-jade hit it spot on. Just isnt fair on the majority of players. I still feel that when theres an overwhelming majority who feel that one major game mode has been made redundant, then its at least time to take a look at it.

At least theres still TT :)

[RobCoxy]

and besides thats not the best place to use the boost for speed lapping/ tt,

Aha! I knew there must be a different boost-br spot because of all the times, how could i have missed this lol :(. I will have a little search of youtube, hopefully an AP Rev vid is there somewhere :).

[djKyoto]

AP Rev Speed Lap is my worst Phantom Ranking due to BSB.

I hate you BSB. :P

[RedScar]

A theif who explains his plan is still a theif. I have no doubt that pirahpac, OBH, Yeldar, etc who use BSB are dedicated and care about WO, the fact that they post here so much shows that. I'm just saying how I feel, which I guess you could characterize as extreme but that is how I am.

I hope piraphac is kidding about leaving the forum, my opinion does not represent anyone else and while I may disagree with him on BSB and SL, doesn't mean I won't race him in a Multiplayer race (and lose). I am simply stating my 2 cents on the issue, he can ignore it if he so feels like it. He doesn't seem to like it though, but I hope that this is just an emotional outburst and not a concrete choice to leave.

[Connavar]

I'm a little bit upset at SL for not even have thought it before adding this
"SELECT" button, I mean they should have asked us, because for instance, as
soon as I heard about the possibility to reset the time, I thought about how it
could be taken advantage of (cheat), and then I knew it was possible and
feared that someone would start using it to beat world records ... and then it
happened with pirhapac/kingheim on ubermall ...

The rest is history: people started talking about it everywhere, and normal
racers would be the losers, not knowing that such a trick could exist.

What I mean, if myself I already directly thought about it, I'm sure many others
also thought the same ... and we would have given a proper way to use the
"reset lap", there are many ways in fact, you can choose (or combine them):

- reset can only occur 5 seconds before crossing the line
- needs 3 real seconds between each reset, timer obviously starts NOT when
you push the button, but after the boost
- reset can only be used on the ground (still need to validate this)
- reset completely stops your ship for x seconds
- reset can only be used when ship is not moving (stop)
- ...

But not the way they did!

[kaori]

- reset can only occur 5 seconds before crossing the line


Bad idea, once on Vineta K, I went out the tracks, and did a biiiiig and vertical bounce on an building, and after reset my boost, and lot of seconds, I could boost above the startline. This was an incredible exploit ;)

[Connavar]

Could also add a distance from the starting line.
5 seconds could translate to xxx meters.

Anyway your example is more like a glitch than something
everyone can use again and again.

[yeldar2097]

- needs 3 real seconds between each reset, timer obviously starts NOT when
you push the button, but after the boost


I'm pretty sure this is the case already since afaik BSB is only still possible on vineta, moa, uber, modesto, anulpha reverse, uber reverse :)

[shapealot]

@ robcoxy

on AP rev use your boost just after u exit the chicane at the start, pitch up as u go over the speed pad and boost BR down the straight into the right hander. its a lot quicker than the other way because u can still get a BR off the hill and hit the 3 speed pads

[Connavar]

I think the safest way is to allow reset when your ship is on the ground,
and maximum 80% of the track, beyond that it's the point of no return :D

[RobCoxy]

@ robcoxy

on AP rev use your boost just after u exit the chicane at the start, pitch up as u go over the speed pad and boost BR down the straight into the right hander. its a lot quicker than the other way because u can still get a BR off the hill and hit the 3 speed pads

Yeah, I just looked it up on Youtube :). Thanks mate ;) :+.

[ProblemSolver]

Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
not directed to any specific person.

It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove something
for themself and against others. Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's
obviously cheating (you name it). Let me tell you, if you get older then you
wanna have a real good and fair competition among your friends. But younger
people tend to take whatever is needed to win and they care less for their
opponents (friends?). In essence, they don't really care that much whether they
will destroy any competition using a cheat or not.

I mean, it's cool to find a glitch, cheat, etc., but saying that those are a
part of the game and that one have to master them is plain ridiculous. From
a community standpoint, those cheats don't necessarily attract new players
and may draw some old ones away. And releasing all the glitches on YT just
simply builds up one's childish iFame, and nothing else. But that kind of fame
will ever mark one as a child because one obviously didn't understand how
to treat such a situation.

I could never be true to myself using any cheat for ZONE to set a new record,
whether the game allows for it or not. That's the farthest thing I can imagine.
I like to play by the native rules. But perhaps that's just me.

@Connavar: Fully signed.

[guillaume]

I should not drag myself into this, but oh well! :g

> Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
> not directed to any specific person.
Well it's kinda directed to the BSB users, which basically is a list of specific people.

> It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove
> something for themself and against others.
Leungbok is one of these people. He's 9 years older than you according to these forums (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3492).
I absolutely don't know the guy, but from all his posts, it doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to anyone. He just wants to get faster.
And I don't believe he's the exception here.

> Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's obviously cheating (you name it).
"IMO" would have been nice.

>[More condescending BS]

>I like to play by the native rules.
Like the way you wrap the lines in your posts?
I believe you like to play by the rules when you like them.

IMO :g

[ProblemSolver]

@guillaume: For people like "you" I wrote the disclaimer. xD I don't have to
write IMO since I've explicitly ruled out any generality by the disclaimer.
Hence, the entire post was written in 'IMO'.


... Well it's kinda directed to the BSB users, which basically is a list of specific people. ...

I'm referring to the group of BSB users, but I don't point at anyone. You may
argue that I indirectly have to point at one (you took one, Leungbok), but
that's not true, because my statements may not hold true for anyone within
this group.


... Leungbok is one of these people. He's 9 years older than you according to these forums (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3492).
I absolutely don't know the guy, but from all his posts, it doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to anyone. ...

And here is where you get lost. Nevermind. ;)

[Darkdrium777]

I have a feeling that some wish this to turn into a clash between international/english community vs the French who "discovered" this exploit (And they didn't really discover it, it was pretty much a given to anyone with an inquisitive mind that it could be done.) Yes, that includes guillaume and pirhapac. Why?
Well pirhapac threatens to leave yet again when I believe he shouldn't take RedScar's 2 cents so personally, after all we all know why pirhapac's name is at the top and it's not because of one exploit he started using. Pirhapac, if that's what you think RedScar implied, you are wrong. He said that the BSB was an exploit of the game's design, in essence cheating this design. Now RedScar might disagree with this himself, but I don't think that because you used the BSB you should be called a cheater, I think you just made a mistake following Sony Liverpool's mistake to not fool proof the boost reset method. Then you were forced to use it because it was already too late.
Now guillaume drags Leungbok into the fray, for what purpose I don't know. I don't think it helps at all pointing people and calling out names. There is absolutely no need to make a list and point people out. Those that did use it did it so that they could still get the very important (for some) feel of the competition in the Speed Lap mode. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to because of this exploit. They used it because there was no other choice, because of a mistake of Sony Liverpool people started experimenting with it. It could have been anyone, not pirhapac who first uploaded the video.

But now this discussion shouldn't even be about "who's fault is it?", it should be "what happens now?" And I think what should happen now is a wiping of all the boards where glitches/exploits have happened (Like I said, Zone Anulpha Pass, Single Races for the vast majority and Speed Lap for wherever the boost reset exploit was used.) That is fair and unbiased action. Then, Sony Liverpool should work on a way to make this feature unexploitable like it still is now. There are many suggestions here, I have one:
Put a volume encompassing all the start line grid + a hundred meters before and after it, this volume being located all around the track and in the air at a very high altitude. Then, make it so that when you are inside this volume, it is impossible to recover your boost using the boost reset feature.
Or remove this feature outright. This second solution is easier as it doesn't require patching 24 race tracks and making us download them over all again in the patch (Thus approximating to around 1GB or more of data), but it removes convenience.

[jan709]

@guillaume: For people like "you" I wrote the disclaimer. xD I don't have to
write IMO since I've explicitly ruled out any generality by the disclaimer.
Hence, the entire post was written in 'IMO'.


Sorry to Bother you in this serious discussion, but what is "IMO"?
I'll hold further stupid questions to myself. :)

[Darkdrium777]

In My Opinion. You will also find IMHO, In My Honest Opinion.
I recommend you use Google to find it out if ever there's an abbreviation you don't know, it's good for this kind of stuff ;)

[ProblemSolver]

With respect to D777 post:
What I don't get is why SL doesn't care about this situation and the leaderboard.
I mean WipEout HD depends soo much on speed like no other game and therefor
on time, on the clock. The clock differentiates a lot of things within WipEout, so
why don't they get it right? Where are all these coders that crank the hell out of
the PS3 but aren't able to maintain a leaderboard and fix very well known glitches?
Sure, they can't show beautiful pictures over the PS Blog, but c'mon.
BSB was the reason I never was into Speed Lap, and the Anulpha Pass glitch as
well as the messed up leaderboard drew me way from this track somehow. But
that's not to say I don't like Anulpha Pass in ZONE, but I will always have that
bad feeling when looking at the leaderboard. :|

[lunar]

I think when OBH started the thread he didn`t mean to attack anyone, it was just a point of discussion of what is the best thing to do with the leaderboards. There is no need for anyone to throw the toys out of the Icaras over this issue.

I think just get rid of boost cancel would be the best option. After a mistake we can go round again like we always used to and most of us need the practice of a few extra laps. Then get rid of any other glitches then reset the affected tables. I don`t think it will ever happen though because I don`t think history suggests Sony think maintaining the tables is worthwhile.

Connavar is right that it could have been avoided if some top HD players had been consulted. I always thought the players would make the best testers.

Anyway all this assumes that the whole leaderboard issue with Speed Lap ranks at all on Sony`s give-a-toss-o-meter. Some people at SL might want to fix things, but nothing ever happens. Ever since the launch of Pulse there has been just one leaderboard correction. They have done nothing with HD despite wrecked single race time leaderboards and obvious totally cheated zone scores. The boards don`t even update properly a lot of the time. Every game since Pure has had some sort of major issue with the way records are recorded locally and online. I don`t think SL put such record keeping very high on the to do list compared to graphical stuff like ship and track decoration which I personally think is less important. Otherwise it would all work. The vast majority of people who buy the game never get near top times with BSB existing or not. I`m not sure that the activities of a handful of players who want to use BSB to beat each other, because they have to use it to remain competitive and trim off a few tenths, is really going to be a commercial concern and therefore I won`t be surprise if nothing ever happens anyway.

[Lance]

Also, IMHO = In My Humble Opinion, which is why we have its corollaries, IMNSHO and IMNSFHO.

----

Speaking of which, IMNSFHO, in this tennis game, it's Studio Liverpool's turn to serve. Arguing with each other is a waste of time and typing, since personalities do not change their type without massive damage to the frontal lobes of the brain, which generally results in non-functioning of the human involved. You're not likely to change each other's opinions.

[ProblemSolver]

@lunar: If they can't maintain a leaderboard then they should skew it
altogether. They should allow us to update out times to a different (public)
server. Would be cool if our records could be transmitted to Connavar page,
for example.

@Lance: Do you really think one tries do change each other's opinions
here? I think we're all a little bit upset coz fixing all the issues would take
nothing when compared to the effort SL had spent on other things within
WipEout HD. Hell, I would be fine with one track less if they fix all the
issues in return.

[Lance]

Problemsolver, yes, I do think that; several people have stated why they think one approach or the other, to exploit or not exploit, is or is not fair or justifiable. If they are not trying to change each other's opinions, then there is no point in arguing this to each other. The only issue remaining would be that obvious flaws should be fixed, a point on which there is probably full agreement, and which therefore is up to SL, whom are therefore the people who should be approached and convinced to fix the exploits soon.

[Constrictor]

Wow, I'm totally stunned by this 'discussion' - but it was an interesting read. And I second that, someone has to talk to SL. Who's able to do that?

btw, I think I mentioned it somewhere else here - somewhat fuzzy - before but SL and/or SCEE's communication/marketing/community/relation department sucks big time on WOHD. EOD!

[KIGO1987]

Jesus ****,

Everyone needs to chillout and have a ciggie, or a durry (ask ace), or a fang, or a ****, or a pissup or something,

Need to just calm down for a sec.

Foxx might be right here, BRs have made a ****ing mess of Wipeout.

[RedScar]

[i]Disclaimer: The following statement does
It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove something
for themself and against others. Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's
obviously cheating (you name it). Let me tell you, if you get older then you
wanna have a real good and fair competition among your friends. But younger
people tend to take whatever is needed to win and they care less for their
opponents (friends?). In essence, they don't really care that much whether they will destroy any competition using a cheat or not.

I am 19, and this is only my second Wipeout game (WO64 was my first) so I would consider myself young. That said I have been an amateur gamer in leagues such as TWL (http://www.teamwarfare.com/), TGL (http://league.totalgamingnetwork.com/) and the now defunct CAL (Amateur branch of the CPL) for a good 6 years now. Facing another team (with anywhere from 1-15 other teammates) in a semi-serious match with no prize other then bragging rights has shown me how serious even small glitchs can be to affecting the overall fairness of a match. Even in public random matches, when I see someone use a glitch I feel cheated and it detracts from my overall experience.


The vast majority of people who buy the game never get near top times with BSB existing or not. I`m not sure that the activities of a handful of players who want to use BSB to beat each other, because they have to use it to remain competitive and trim off a few tenths, is really going to be a commercial concern and therefore I won`t be surprise if nothing ever happens anyway.

I fully admit that I can not pull off BSB with any sort of consistency, hell even a good clean lap is still tough for me on certain tracks. Regardless though, I should not have to learn BSB to stay competitive if BSB is not an intended gameplay mechanic. This isn't me just being to lazy to take advantage of a proper game mechanic and then bitching when I can't get 1st on the record board. Even with BSB I will never make the top 10 for speed lap unless I somehow get better (which is unlikely), but it deters me from even trying knowing I will have to glitch just to compete.



@Lance: Do you really think one tries do change each other's opinions
here? I think we're all a little bit upset coz fixing all the issues would take
nothing when compared to the effort SL had spent on other things within
WipEout HD. Hell, I would be fine with one track less if they fix all the
issues in return.

QFT (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=QFT), the real issue that we can all agree on. SL needs to wipe the boards and find an appropriate fix to BSB.

[OBH]

SL just need to comment on the situation really. I was all for removing bsb. Now i wish they'd just kept it how it was.

[djKyoto]

^ This, Either put BSB back, or reset the Single Lap records.

I'd be more for the latter.

[KIGO1987]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That one sentence pretty much sums it up.

[kanar]

Ok this discussion is starting to piss me off. I don't see why SL would have to reset the speed lap times. First things first, I'm not using BSB, but since day one, I FULLY RESPECT and SUPPORT this TECHNIQUE. As it has been stated, you can manually use this technique with patience, dedication & work, by nosing down then up before the starting line. As some of the best pilots explained. And seriously, how can people conclude BSB times are unbeatable? Let me laugh. The only thing you need to beat BSB is TIME. Lots of it. I think a lot of people here don't realize the amount of dedication some pilot put in this game. I'm talking about 6000/7000 laps per track. 500/600 hours of gaming. Kind of "professional" status, compared to the casual gamers. I'm fed up to read "horrendous BR" or "Fkin BSB". If you don't want to compete, then go to the eliminator mode and enjoy your set of rockets. Or play Monster Hunter, or your Xbox. But if you want to compete, then fight with the best. And respect their ACHIEVEMENT.
Seriously, nobody noticed what pirahpac said or what? Anulpha pass forward, Akfurtif : 20.08 WITHOUT BSB. (and remember Wellington reached 20.24 A WHILE AGO). This simple fact proves every time is beatable. I'm fighting when I have time myself. Means never. I fully accept the challenge against BSB, because it's a simple 0.15 gap at the start. Tell me you're unable to bridge that gap during your entire lap, and I'll tell you you're LAZZY. As I said above, you guys are shooting on the best pilots in the world, who dedicated a huge part of their life to the game. I see not point in arguing if you just consider wipeout hd as a simple game. But if you really want to compete, just accept the fact wipeout HD is probably the MOST DIFFICULT OPUS in the entire serie, and get back to work. I'll continue to follow the best ghosts available at wipeoutghost.com, and one day inchallah I'll beat even the BSB ones, cos my lines will be perfect one day, with PATIENCE, DEDICATION & WORK. And I'll bridge this tiny 0.15 gap at the start. Let me introduce some buddhist thinking, as Flashback_Jack did one day; " How to become successfull? 10 000 HOURS" or "Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus 10000 times is skill." http://nanyate.com/culture/how-to-become-successful-10000-hours
Just a last thing regarding the speed lap rankings. Actually I agree on the fact that there's 2 or 3 glitched world records. Moa reverse, sol2... But they are OBVIOUS, we all know them. And of course I would like to see them erased.


Dont be discouraged trying to better yours BsB times though, since the update i've bettered quite a few without this method and come real close to some with the new ships :) ... Fully agree with you mate, I've myself lowered some of my times with a lot of work & with the fantastic Icaras MkII. I'm just lacking of time, that's all.

[leungbok]

:+
Nothing more to add, mate :clap

[kaori]

kanar is back, i send you a green square by mind ;)
But I think you waste lot of time writing long (and good) posts like this, how do you want beat BSB (cheating*) records ?



*french persiflage

[KIGO1987]

Phow!

Kanar is pissed XD

[kanar]

;), I'm not pissed. That was only my 2 cents, as this thread is talking about my favourite mode. I'm more pissed off by the fact I've no time to play as I would like to. Not enough time to enjoy some trance music & hunt some superfast ghosts. And reach that state of trance when I'm improving, even by a tenth, one of my times.

[leungbok]

And reach that state of trance when I'm improving, even by a tenth, one of my times.
Yes that's exactly what it's all about, but for this very short moment, you have to train for days. Not everydoby understood that. But this fugitive feeling costs gold !! 8)

[KIGO1987]

I can tell you folk go out to Trance clubs on the weekend:hyper:rock

[lunar]

Yes that's exactly what it's all about, but for this very short moment, you have to train for days. Not everydoby understood that. But this fugitive feeling costs gold !! 8)

On that we can all agree, sirs :)

[phaeton_pl]

;), reach that state of trance when I'm improving, even by a tenth, one of my times.

Thats what i play for, not for #1 place in ranking. :hyper It's pure essence of speed laping... Kanar you got the point!
Disscusion is over, thank god...

[kanar]

I can tell you folk go out to Trance clubs on the weekend:hyper:rock

ah ah kigo I'm too old for that, and my wife is listening to everything EXCEPT trance music ;). Phaeton I need some of your ghosts too lol, you fantastic speed lapper (what a moa run!). Lunar, Leungbok, kaori, and of course you crazy aussie dude, hope to race you soon my friends.

[Darkdrium777]

I don't see why SL would have to reset the speed lap times.You don't?
How about for the very same reason that was stated before: every single one of the times currently at the top but a sample few is attained using an exploit that is still permitted by the game's design but is obviously not allowed by Sony Liverpool, the designers of said game. Any hack, cheat, glitch or exploit in any other game is enough to have the competition resetted: stat padders in other games get their characters reset and frequently their asses banned, for example. That you or these other guys "fully support the technique" makes no difference. I praise the skill required to perform it. The technique is still an exploit and I have no respect for that in any kind of game. SL also obviously does not "fully support it", but I am sure appreciate the skill of these pilots just like I do. The best reward for these pilots would be to still be on top after a wipe of the board and the removal of the exploit.
WipEout HD should be no difference vs those other games where action is taken. These skillful pilots still used an exploit to achieve their time, that's enough to have these times taken down. And since there's absolutely no way to tell who used BSB and who didn't, an absolute and unbiased wipe is necessary. They are free to try again using conventional racing techniques without exploits. And they will because like you say, they have that much time to play the game.

[djKyoto]

^ What he said.

SL acknowledged that the BSB was a glitch/loop hole to achieve faster times and have removed the ability (on most tracks anyway) for it. This means that the existing times on the SL records with BSB gone will basically never ever be beaten again for the rest of us, which is stupid and unfair.

I have nothing against BSB by the way. It's mad fun to pull it off, but this is regarding the existing records.

[prttoettoet]

^ What he said.

SL acknowledged that the BSB was a glitch/loop hole to achieve faster times and have removed the ability (on most tracks anyway) for it. This means that the existing times on the SL records with BSB gone will basically never ever be beaten again for the rest of us, which is stupid and unfair.

I have nothing against BSB by the way. It's mad fun to pull it off, but this is regarding the existing records.

And I fully agree, the actual records can't be broken.

[ProblemSolver]

Whether BSB takes skill or not, the whole thing draws one out of the game and
it doesn't really fit within the WipEout universe either. Secondly, any known
glitch / exploit sheds a bad light on the game from the outside and may even
draw people away from the game. I have no problems with those who favor BSB,
since I know for myself how it feels to pull out something which is regarded as
difficult, and it's kinda fun sometimes to do such things like BSB & Co., but
from a community standpoint it is really bad to say that you should get used to
all the exploits to get good / competitive at the game, at the leaderboard.

[kanar]

errrrrr Dark you really like to argue about everything, seriously. No, I still don't see the point in wiping out the SL rankings, even with your arguments guys. Because there's a lot of real glitchs to deal with in the (zone/multiplayer...) rankings first.
BSB simply means -0.15/0.20, not more. And as you said Dark, it would be the same rankings anyway, just after a couple of weeks. For the last time, you guys have to admit that PATIENCE, DEDICATION & WORK are the only required conditions to make the rankings.
You'll never stop the need for speed, and particularly if it's a fair technique. As Jaytech, this technique can be used by everyone. And as Jaytech, this technique can be defeated by everyone. I've not all the best times in mind, but as it has been stated before, anulpha pass forward #1 rank 20.08 proves BSB is not the ultimate lethal weapon. Again guys you're not reading posts before posting. Saying BSB times can't be beaten is absolutely not true. Sometimes, a well-executed boost on the starting line can be faster than a stratospheric barrel roll above your ship. Moreover, BSB is forcing you to improve your racing lines, & inventing new tricks (adding a BR somewhere for eg.) This is just a matter of practice, & I'm finding really sad to see a lot of people are reducing that concern to a simple glitch debate. This BSB technique actually motivates me to improve my racing lines, nothing more. I'll never take this technique as an excuse for my not-fast-enough times. And yes, I am in some of the speed lap rankings, and when I have time, I'm still improving my records without BSB.
Just to let you know, I'm not going to answer to your future post(s), I've more important things to do, like errrr working gah. And tonight I'll probably make some speed lap runs, and I'll ENJOY A LOT to follow some superfast ghosts, BSB -or not- powered, really DON'T CARE. I'll enjoy to execute A LOT of HORRENDOUS barrel rolls everywhere I can, cos I LIKE THAT.
And you should -really- try to compete in the Speed lap tables before posting here.

[Frances_Penfold]

For the last time, you guys have to admit that PATIENCE, DEDICATION & WORK are the only required conditions to make the rankings. You'll never stop the need for speed, and particularly if it's a fair technique. As Jaytech, this technique can be used by everyone. And as Jaytech, this technique can be defeated by everyone. [/B]

It's great to have a time trial challenge-- I love me 1,000+ lap "free play" sessions in PurE trying to set a new personal record :hyper

But I still think it's nuts for SL to "fix" the BRB mechanic and not reset the leaderboards-- IMO it should be all or nothing ;)

I wonder if Sony is worried about resetting the leaderboards because it could discourage/annoy the "average" WOHD pilot that doesn't have times anywhere near the top of the rankings? I can certainly imagine that Sony wants to limit the number of times that leaderboards are reset.

[KIGO1987]

This is why i rather race with other humans,

Some choose to put there lives around doing SL and TTs all the time, and if someone breaks there records, they become all devastate and depressed and want to jump of a bridge or something, when someone beats there record.

Its like my first car, i put all this care and time into it only to be ****ing wrecked by some stupid cunty bastard in a knobby car. So i can understand your situation SL and TT guru's/

Anyway, continue, i think the popcorn is nearly ready.

[ProblemSolver]

@kanar: That's nice in all, but I'm not sure whether those iffy techniques
like BSB enhance the experience in any way. If they do, then way not
implementing a technique where one has to press five times three different
buttons, within a second, to get another boost? Mastering this technique would
become a skill as well, a skill that is pretty much ridiculous.

[Darkdrium777]

errrrrr Dark you really like to argue about everything, seriously.Discuss seems more appropriate. An argument usually has a negative connotation where people are shouting at each other, which is the polar opposite of what I am doing :)

No, I still don't see the point in wiping out the SL rankings, even with your arguments guys. Because there's a lot of real glitchs to deal with in the (zone/multiplayer...) rankings first.Yeah, they are. I also said they should be taken care of at the exact same time as speed lap. If Sony Liverpool (Or whoever's in charge) eventually does this, they'll do it in one shot, not step by step.

For the last time, you guys have to admit that PATIENCE, DEDICATION & WORK are the only required conditions to make the rankings. Have I not done this already, by saying that whoever's on top now would still be after a wipe? If anyone thinks for a moment that I'm still posting about this because I feel I could gain something out of an eventual wipe of the board, well you're absolutely barking mad :lol There's no way I could ever be on top with the other guys, I simply do not have the time. No, why I am discussing this still is because the exploit is still present in the game in some form, and voicing the opinion that it should be removed along with all the times of the boards (Because like I said before there's no way to tell who used it and who did it) in order to re-instate a fair competition for this mode while respecting the original design of the game.

Again guys you're not reading posts before posting.Yes I am, I suggest you go back yourself. I never even talked about the "if" beating BSB times was possible or not, I'm only talking on the basis that it's an exploit.

I'm finding really sad to see a lot of people are reducing that concern to a simple glitch debate.It is an exploit, that's not up to debate.
What is being discussed is an eventual wipe of the leaderboard because of the semi-removal of the exploit by Sony Liverpool. But you guys come back in here and keep saying it isn't an exploit, so who is debating this really? :p

And you should -really- try to compete in the Speed lap tables before posting here.Playing the game and wanting any and all exploit, bug, glitch, hack or cheat removed is not enough? You're telling me I have to be top 10 before I can start posting? Is that a pre-requisite or a rule on the WipEout Zone Guidelines announcement that I have not seen? Is everyone else here in a top 10 of speed lap and I am not aware of that? Having played WipEout for five years, having accumulated 300 hours (SPARTA!) across three games is not enough for you? Having gone to two wonderful conventions hosted by Al Sartwell is not enough for you? Is it not enough proof that I am dedicated to this franchise and a loyal fan, simply wishing the game to be glitch/hack free?
Seriously, that's not even a point you can make.
Even the lowly newbie who only plays in Venom because he doesn't have the time and patience to get better at the game has the right to freedom of speech and voicing his opinion on the BSB exploit. This sentence is basically you blocking your ears with your hands and saying "lalalalala I'm not listening." You think that's rational?

[djKyoto]

BSB simply means -0.15/0.20, not more.

I'm sure on some tracks, such as Vineta K (note yeldar2097's video) and Ubermall, because of the way you land, you can easily gain a good half second+ with BSB.


Saying BSB times can't be beaten is absolutely not true.

Depending on how effective the BSB is, yes it is. Sub-18 seconds laps without BSB on Vineta K (example) is impossible (to my knowledge anyway).



And you should -really- try to compete in the Speed lap tables before posting here.

I SL regularly. I always keep finding new lines and places to BR/use the turbo and put in a lot of effort, time and hard work (as you say) in getting these times, but the simple matter is i'll know if I was twice as good as I am now, I still wouldn't be able to beat (or in some cases even get close to) most of the BSB'd SL times. It's just a fact.

[kanar]

quote BLAH BLAH BLAH quote BLAH BLAH BLAH. Always the same. You should try to disqualify Husain Bolt's records cos' he's taller (obviously it's a glitch) than the other sprinters, I'm sure you have your chances with your great arguments. Pretty annoying and boring, as this place these past few weeks. Hopefully the game itself is still interesting. I know I said I won't answer lol, but I just wanted to let you know what I feel about your "discussion". BTW : 17:87 on vineta k forward by myself WITHOUT BSB, just for your info (on my way to 18:60 easily, if I have time to spare).

[djKyoto]

You're on your way to a slower lap time? :P

Regardless, I'd love to see a video of that. :D

[Lance]

I believe that the points have been stated on all sides, and now are simply being repeated with increasing heat in the hope that the heat will change the opinion of the opposition. That will not happen, as examination of human nature and history will show. In other words, cool it.

[OBH]

sorry for starting a bit of a row. it wasnt intended.

i thought some of the SL die-hards would be irrated that beating their competitors times just got harder, or impossible in selected cases, but alas i was wrong, pirahpac & kanar have proved their dedication is as strong as ever!

good luck to you all.

ive happily listened to all your points, and am going to go SLing right now to see if im fussing over nothing. apologies again.

[Darkdrium777]

Lance: I believe I can say again what I want. Am I trying to change the opinion of others about the BSB? No. What I've kept on saying I believe for the major part of this discussion was that:
1. Sony Liverpool agrees it is an exploit by removing "half" of it from the game. It's still possible, but much harder to do.
2. I am inclined to agree with them, and I think they should go further and reset the leaderboards for speed lap in order to re-initiate the competition in an environment in accordance with the design of the game.
The ones who don't believe the BSB is an exploit can keep their opinions, it just happens to not be concordant with Sony Liverpool's and is what I'm also saying, but I'm not trying to anger people here. If you are getting angry because I keep posting that, well I don't know what to say except don't get angry :lol
Why I have been saying it over and over is because people aren't reading the "opposing" point of view and still say that it's not an exploit, which is obviously not up to discussion at all as it is:
1. Off topic to this particular thread.
2. Sony Liverpool have modified the feature in an attempt to prevent the BSB, thus confirming that it is an exploit of a flaw in the game design.

Apparently people are getting angry though :lol And I simply don't get it. What am I saying here to anger people, perhaps I need shock therapy or something. If it's simply the fact that I'm responding, well you know what? I'll invite you to put me on your ignore list so you don't have to read me again. It's like magic and will hide any post I make from your view, if you would like to read it you'll just have to click a button. If my responses are so annoying for whatever reason, you are free to not read them using this feature, and I invite you to do so as to not embarrass yourself like kanar here with his complete and entire dismissal of my post with "BLAH BLAH BLAH", which frankly could be taken as quite insulting and rude.
Because as far as I'm aware, I've not insulted anyone, called anyone a cheater, etc; in fact I tried to avoid as much as possible this situation where a misunderstanding could occur by saying multiple times: I respect the skill of those dedicated to the Speed Lap mode; and additionally I wish partly for the removal of the BSB and the resetting of the board so that a good and uncompromised competition can be re-ignited between them.
If anyone sees me as opposed to the fact that there are these players at the top of the speed lap, I'll go ahead and say it again that I am not. They deserve to be there, they are the best. However in the interest of the game being as clean as possible, there is this suggestion of removing the BSB and wiping the board for a new, fresh, and uncompromised competition starting over.

Since the removal of the reputation, I cannot get feedback of my posts through it anymore, so if there is a problem, feel free to PM me.

[OBH]

what angers people is probably the "matter of fact" attitude while saying your piece my friend .

add a slice of agression to the mix and you get a flawless recipe for "annoyed people". best served cold.
....with ice cream.

[chboing]

i think it's not what you say that irritates people, but the way you say them, the tone you use.
and, imho, you'd just have to spend half the amount of time you spend writing useless post here, into SL competition, and you'd set better SL times than some bsb or maybe all bsb times (who knows with your wipeout skills!) and then you would have more free time for other things :)

(ok except maybe 1 or 2 tracks where competition maybe ****ed, but well ... you still have a lot of tracks to have fun with ! )

[Darkdrium777]

No, playing so much games right now would be a bad idea in my case. Unfortunately school has started and I won't have much time anymore. I can only bring my laptop which is how I post in the lunch hour and the breaks.

And like I said, send PMs, I'm open to feedback. I don't wish to derail this thread further by asking for feedback. :)
I've already stated what I wish for (multiple times) so it's done and I'll try to stop now ;)

[Lance]

And how many times saying the same thing over and over are required to get in the last word, or to annoy the hell out of everybody, or to convince oneself that one is right, or solve the problem when one is not speaking directly to the people responsible for creating and fixing the problem? What constructive purpose is served by this repetition? How much repetition is just sheer bloodyminded argumentativeness? To be clear, my statements above do not apply to just one of the participants; several people have done one or more of these things. The thread has not only long since become unproductive, it is also now providing material and opportunity for incivility.

Thread closed.