Is there "unfair" racing strategies??

[Kyonshi]

Is there some moves that, please God help me, are all of a sudden labeled "unfair" or "cowardly" while im racing someone?

Since when quickly applying airbrakes to let the leader pass me and shot him/her with a missile is supposed to be "coward"?!? I dunno, but as far as i know, please God help me, i thought the goal in WipEout, since 1995, is WINNING.

Put yourselves in this situation. You're leading and the guy in 2nd is tailing you like a mad dog. You got a missile (because as everybody knows, we always grab shooting weapons when in pole :lol) and you ask yourself "What can i do to assure myself victory? How about i let him pass and shoot his/her sorry ass up? Considering the player doesn't have a Shield on, you easily wreck him/her off and there you go celebrate. How ironic xD

As you all expect, yes im describing an immediate experience i went through minutes ago against some lame**** bad player calling me, as mentioned eariler, a coward. I replied that i wouldn't let him pass me just for fun because he has a nice butt, that i had this missile and i planned to shoot the mofo down and i worked, end of story. I ended with a nice WELCOME TO WIPEOUT, thats the name of the game! ****ing tool... I'm glad to add that i pulled the same move twice, just to piss him off more :lol

Is my reasoning's right or should i quit playing the game cuz im a meanie meanie meanie boy and its bad to shoot people down in a game which is conceived on this purpose?

[Handmadelion]

Sounds to me you got yourself a stupid chat/message :D I love those. And no, it's not cowardly. It makes him look stupid for saying such a thing. Especially when HUD hints are on and he can see you clearly have missiles.

Freeze Frame.

Okay, the guy has missiles.

And he's letting me pass? Awesome!

Put 2+2 together here. That's not a bad strategy OR an uncommon one. Maybe he'll remember to shield next time.

[Kyonshi]

Exactly what i thought. And i do remember Weapon Hints where on, making the situation even more hilarious :)

I couldn't care less in the first times he messaged me... But he just kept taunting and in the same way revealing his pathetic frustration to meet someone his level. Top of that he won all tourneys he made up tonite, and finds a way to whine about me anyway. I was amazed how stupid he was. Far more players better than him pulled out the same move on me and i never went back on them and insult people... Well, there maybe bad losers, but oh my, there's also bad winners :|

[Frances_Penfold]

"Sandbagging" is an INTENDED strategy in a lot of racing games, e.g., Mario Kart, where skilled players will slow their mini-turbos to drop to second place to get the better item pick-up.

I sure as hell wouldn't fault anybody for slowing down to use an item in Wipeout-- it's an intended part of the game! If you pass somebody after flying over a weapons pad, you better look out :)

[Vartazian]

You should be ashamed of yourself, using a perfectly legitamate Strategy ike that!

SHame on you!!

[lunar]

Yeah I`m also disgusted with you Kyonshi. If we all start playing to win what will happen then? Really the guy is just a sore loser. It makes people irrational. Try doing the same thing on Sol2 open section so that he takes the long drop and see if you can make his head explode. ;)

It`s a bit naughty in some ways, but satisfying to pull this off. Of course it`s legitimate - we have weapons - but I`m not sure it`s the best way to win as letting people go infront can backfire on you if they have the right pickup.

[Sideshow]

Only problem I have with this strategy is that whenever I try it I overbrake and get to watch the opponent disappear into the distance :/

[Hellfire_WZ]

Greenix tried that with me once. He missed. I won :P

[As Heaven Is Wide]

Echoing what others have already said, there's nothing wrong with doing that. It comes with it's own risks and it's always possible for it to backfire.

While not unfair or anything I have seen (and placed) some particulalry devious bombs/mines which have a high probability of sending people off the track. :evil

[yeldar2097]

well personally i try as much as possible not to use weapons (far more satisfying when you win :D) but i'd have NO PROBLEM if someone did that to me.
People that i've lapped on the other hand..... grrrrrrrrr

[Eloï]

Well, personnaly I don't like that, but it's ok. It's like using a bomb/mines in a 2 players race when you're just ahead of him . It's ok, it's the game, but well it kills the fun a little I think. In your example I prefer competitivity: rather, keep the missile, and try to take every weapon pad to not let my opponent have a chance to get me. My view ;) I think it's infinitely more frustrating (Andybob35, aka "the sponge", is master to that! ).

But if you slow down, and the guy behind slows down too, don't you think it will result in a dead stop? not very good if the third guy is not too far :p

[Kyonshi]

Echoing what others have already said, there's nothing wrong with doing that. It comes with it's own risks and it's always possible for it to backfire.

While not unfair or anything I have seen (and placed) some particulalry devious bombs/mines which have a high probability of sending people off the track. :evil

Like i said to Handmadelion, the 2nd time i did it to him was on the over-pass on Anulpha, and of course he fell down :D Then he replied "You had to do it again, didnt ya?" Well YES dear :lol


Well, personnaly I don't like that, but it's ok. It's like using a bomb/mines in a 2 players race when you're just ahead of him . It's ok, it's the game, but well it kills the fun a little I think. In your example I prefer competitivity: rather, keep the missile, and try to take every weapon pad to not let my opponent have a chance to get me. My view ;) I think it's infinitely more frustrating (Andybob35, aka "the sponge", is master to that! ).

But if you slow down, and the guy behind slows down too, don't you think it will result in a dead stop? not very good if the third guy is not too far :p

Usually since the second guy is so eager to win, he will do anything and take any opportunities to pass/shoot you. That's what happened with him. He's a good pilot, i wont deny that, but i saw how he craved the victory. He just took the bait... and i wave goodbye at him :D Maybe if there's a very good veteran pilot who saw that everything can happen on a racetrack, he will realize my strategy and try to mess me up in return.

[Motorsagmannen]

lol this reminds me of a race i had with IH8YOU shortly before fury. we raced on anulpha rev, and he passed me with a turbo on the 3x speedpad straight. i quaked him. but the start end straight. he grinded down to a complete halt. i slammed into him. and there we stood for a couple of seconds. first i thought WTF. but then i noticed he had a quake, and realised he wouldnt move untill i passed him lol. so i took a bite of the quake and the best part is that we still came first and second lol ( he won of course, after putting me down with the quake :beer). its one the funniest races i ever had.

[billychanxtr33m]

all is fair in love and wipeout

[yeldar2097]

take what Elois-13 says with a pinch of salt, it's VERY rare that the person behind will be fast enough to get within shooting range of him :P

[PoliPino]

I have no problem with any winning strategy. A few people have done exactly that to me a few times. I actually got a kick out of it. There's the momentary thrill of 'Whoo!, I'm gonna pass him!' then 'ROCKET' and 'oh crap'. Just try again next race.

Race fast, race hard. That is Wipeout.

[Rubix42]

Seems simple to me, if the game lets you do it, then it's fine to do. It's like people who get upset in a fighting game if you do the same move/combo over and over again. Calling it cheap or stupid or whatever.

In my mind, if you can't stop me from doing it, you're the one with an issue, not me. Last I checked, the goal is to play to win, not play to let the other person win...

[PoliPino]

Echoing what others have already said, there's nothing wrong with doing that. It comes with it's own risks and it's always possible for it to backfire.

While not unfair or anything I have seen (and placed) some particulalry devious bombs/mines which have a high probability of sending people off the track. :evil

Hehe does anybody else intentionally hit bombs when you have a shield to have the shockwave push other ships off the track? Or is it just me? :p

[Eloï]

rofl sagmannen :D

[TheDukeZip]

I think that any strategy allowed by the rules is fair game. This includes your strategy as well as bombing/mining when you're in first place. After all, they are allowed to quake/missile/etc you, why can't you bomb them?

One thing I don't like is when the host is switching up the tracks every race and losing. Then they finally come upon the track where they know it a little better than me or the rest of the crowd and lo and behold every single race after is the same track. Once I see 3-4 in a row of this I move on to another race.

[Reezy]

@Motorsagmannen: Thats awesome :)

[LOUDandPROUD]

Only problem I have with this strategy is that whenever I try it I overbrake and get to watch the opponent disappear into the distance :/

That can be prevented by simply letting off the throttle a bit instead of actually braking, which is what I do and it works perfectly well. :)

[stinkleroy]

Whilst I have nothing against this, I can understand how it might come accross to someone who hasn't thought of the tactical advantages before.

I remember when I first started playing with the wz crew, Chaos80 (yeah you! ;)) used to slow down to shoot me all the time...at first I took it the wrong way, thought it was down to arrogance rather than strategy. Of course I had it totally wrong, and realised that soon enough. Although he still does love to mine me in the face, it's all in good fun now :lol

[RobCoxy]

It's a perfectly alright strategy and i would not moan about it and send 'unnecessary messages'. But, it would annoy the F U C K out of me lol ;).

Still, WipEout's all about winning and i would do exactly the same to a similar skilled pilot closely tailing me in second :). Even though, i'm usually too concentrated on keeping up the pace to even think about braking and risking it lol.

[shindubhe]

one of the things i love about HD and all other WO games is that the AI is as brutal to you as they are the other AI , it teaches you to race agressively to get the win, so imo anything goes, its not like this is SF4 with kens spamming uppercuts. being an ass wont garantee a win.

sometimes i get a little annoyed when it seems like people are ramming me for the hell of it but i always give the benefit of the doubt as normally that wont stop me XD.

i think its funny when someone thinks your picking on them when your not and they spend the rest of the race/s trying to take you out, in that circumstance i just put them in there place while racing at full throttle

[Sideshow]

I think that any strategy allowed by the rules is fair game. This includes your strategy as well as bombing/mining when you're in first place. After all, they are allowed to quake/missile/etc you, why can't you bomb them?

Wait, are you telling me some people complain when the lead drops mines? God damn some people are lame.

[TheDukeZip]

It happened once, but I just ignored them.

[TechNetic]

Its not unfair at all, when i'm racing I always keep a missile or quake just incase anyone takes over me. Its their fault, they can see you have that weapon from looking at the HUD, so if they wanna' pass they should get a shield.

[Kyonshi]

You know what, that's EXACTLY what i had in mind when i sandbagged the guy... I kept my missile in the lead, because he was steady on my tail, he could easily get to me and shoot me down, and i knew failure or piloting mistakes were out of the question for me.

All in all, WipEout is COMBAT RACING. Unless you turn weapons off, that's what it is. Its not a ****ing charity fund raise. Its do whatever you have to to win, maybe it be sandbagging or droping mines and bombs when you're leading. Its ruthless and unforgiving. And that's what's actually so great about WipEout. So better get ready to kiss concrete if you're not adequately prepared :D

[andybob35]

Well, personnaly I don't like that, but it's ok. It's like using a bomb/mines in a 2 players race when you're just ahead of him . It's ok, it's the game, but well it kills the fun a little I think. In your example I prefer competitivity: rather, keep the missile, and try to take every weapon pad to not let my opponent have a chance to get me. My view ;) I think it's infinitely more frustrating (Andybob35, aka "the sponge", is master to that! )

I cant claim credit to that.. back in September/November 2008 Evolite & ZX4897 where using that all the time on me (i got wise to their ways!) but usually its a case of absorbing to refill my shield for barrel rolling, and to keep the usual 'household names' at bay (once again you know who are CHAOS80/TCK)


take what Elois-13 says with a pinch of salt, it's VERY rare that the person behind will be fast enough to get within shooting range of him :P

Weird hearing that from you as im currently sucking at Fury tracks but will happy to show the 'sponge' technique on any of the original 16 :nod

Back to subject: TCK is guilty in my eyes for that 'wait, lock, fire, runnnnnnnnnnnn away!' tactic, as mentioned before, if you got a turbo/shield your fine-ish. There are plenty of cheeky/annoyin/rage-quiting techniques out there.. so

Stay safe, stay FAST

[Lightlord]

The weapons strategy doesn't bother me the only thing i admit i absolutely hat are rammers who just grind the crap out of your shields or deliberately smack into you on a turn to push you over the side of a track and be reset or shoved into the side which makes you stop practically dead.

[PEPEDA]

suffered that million of times...if you want to see me really angry just do it to me....sorry...but thats the true

[djKyoto]

I got called a cheeky sod a couple of times (for lols tho, not serious) for droping back to second with a quake and blasting them, but it's all good fun.

Then theres the pickup hoarder, but thats just another tatic.

[Vartazian]

I like knowing someone has a quake, then passing them, when they shoot the quake I use my saved shield, I can just hear them go "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-" from my house.

[Motorsagmannen]

yeah shield vs quake is win. hehe saved alot of races that has.

[mic-dk]

...or deliberately smack into you on a turn to push you over the side of a track and be reset or shoved into the side which makes you stop practically dead.

How do you tell it's intentional?

On some corners it usually is pretty much unavoidable, like the first lap on Chengou (F), when everybody arrives at the sharp lefthander at the same time. You better be on the inside of that turn...

IMHO a block pass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-iGZWasSH4) is a valid, albeit a bit rough, tactic. It certainly isn't unfair - I mean, you can just outrun the b*stard.

(yes, yes, I get pretty worked up when it happens to me, too :) )

[Sideshow]

Think this article fits this thread:Playing to win (http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html). Anyone serious about any game should read it.

[Vartazian]

What I got from that is,

People care that I crush noobs.

I like this.

[yeldar2097]

Weird hearing that from you as im currently sucking at Fury tracks but will happy to show the 'sponge' technique on any of the original 16 :nod

yah me too. I must admit sponging works a treat when you don't know the track, you get all sorts of useful stuff. I've started doing it because: yeldar on fury tracks = arse :P
getting there...

is it just me that picks up a weapon but the lag doesn't show it til i've been hit by a quake and then it turns out to be a shield? It's gotta be more than a coincidence ;)

[LurifaxFlux]

IMO the only unfair strategy, which isn't really a racing strategy anyway, is changing venue/settings and start the race immediately without letting any of the opponents change ship if they wish to :bomb:-

[Aeroracer]

Think this article fits this thread:Playing to win (http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html). Anyone serious about any game should read it.

generally most players who quote this (generally elite players from SF and mortal kombat scene) live by this till they start getting beat by what they call a scrub then they also become scrubs by making counter excuses or simply saying i lost cos your a scrub, and basically become hypocriticle.

David sirlin in my opinion has made games that are supposed to be fun into serious nasty experiences in many cases for the majority of gamers.His phillosphies has caused much negativity and many arguments and aggression both on the games and on forums.
Many of these so called scrubs and noobs are little children just trying to have fun and play a game.

From my experiences of other games not including wipeout players who follow this david sirlin attitude, spend more time ripping the game apart looking for glitches and broken moves to give them an advantage so they can win games they were not meant to win, spoil other's enjoyment and rant and rave at anyone who objects calling them a scrub and saying it ok cos it's play to win attitude as stated by david sirlin.

hopefully wipeout will never get to this sorry state i have seen on other games and will stay full of wonderful nice very skilled players who are positive and kind to players not as skilled as themselves as it is now.:nod:nod

I dont follow his philosphies because

If he were a football manager he would promote diving on the pitch and spitting on oppossing star players to provoke a response in order to get them sent off (zidane was a victim of this in last world cup)

[Rubix42]

Jasmin, while I completely agree that there are certain people who do what you have described, that is not the experience of a majority of the fighting game community. Most of the elite players in the fighting game community show the same respect to their opponents as is done in wipeout. Yes, they search for the safest, most effective attacks and practice them to perfection. But watch them play a match, there are several on youtube. Just search daigo and watch a couple of SFIV matches.

They are on a whole other level, and would never be beat by a scrub. Ever. At it's most simple form, a fighting game is just a fledged out mind game of paper rock and scissors. Only you have all sizes of scissors, a multitude of pieces of paper, and a couple of rocks.

[Aeroracer]

sorry they don't, most of them are how i say based on my experiences in
DOA4 .
MKA
MKD
MKDC
SF4
The people you speak of are not the majority if they were things would be better.
I will add that Japan is an exception the elite community are as you describe.

I was in the fighting community for 5 years and was a high level competitor and i was a member of the sites and have seen what happens with my own eyes.

[khnemu23]

I only consider 2 racing strategies unfair (and even then only unfair when the AI does it). The first is using the missile on someone making the jump on Amphesium Reverse (thereby causing you to potentially land off the track and respawn back at the top).

The second is "rumphumping". That is when the AI is behind you and while trying to race its preset racing line it rams into the back of your ship and makes steering 10X as difficult as it would be normally.

Other than that I think most strategies are perfectly valid. I think dropping back with a weapon is okay, as well as ramming into someone on a turn. After all, both of these things require some risk on the part of the person doing it so it seems pretty fair.

[Aeroracer]

hahaha "RUMPHUMPING"..i like that word.. you now give it new meaning:p:p:p

[LOUDandPROUD]

LOL :lol :lol :lol

[Vartazian]

You Had a problem with DOA4? man, I loved that game, Okay I lied I love Ayane not the game so much.

Man When I went online I just fought so I didnt see Ayane get kicked in the face. 5 Hit Helicopter Kick Combo FTW!

[Aeroracer]

Game was fine, it was the degenerate trash that played the game that screamed hystericaly down the mic at you, throwing abuse at you if you won or lost or basically did anything.
There were some ok players just too many sub humans for my liking.Never really get this on this game.

back to topic on wipeout unfair stategies.

Cant really see anything thats unfair or unacceptable in this game.

Slow down and shoot is just a stategy with a risk but ok
Corner ramming is about being aware of where your opponents are
shunting opponents from rear into wall/off the track with a boost is nothing worst than a poor mans rocket.
Blocking is ok


just strategies nothing more:)

[Lightlord]

I'd have to say I'm amazed at the amount of people i read about begrudging the AI considering that there is a degree of waypoint that they follow and the AI are still too easy even on elite, tbh the only other frustration i have is the "perfect" weapon combo someone is behind you they hit with a homing missile fair enough and literally straight after they get a weapon pad which will either give them rockets which they blast into you at point blank range which takes forever to recover from or a bomb with immediate detonation the moment they go in front while your still stunned from the homing missle! I wish i could say it was luck but why is it whenever I'm second that never happens for me lol?!!!

[DDark]

reading some of the names you guys/girls give these strategies is priceless
ive only just started to hate people who do ramming cos i dont have rockets to teach them a lesson but lately i went on anulpha pass shortcut and the person was sideshifting all the way up i thought they were a tard until they smacked me off, i really didnt see it coming what do you call the sideshifting thing :p

[Lance]

ummm... 'OffSmacking'! :g

[allstyles]

the play to win mindset, is good at competitive level.

If you just want to play for fun, forget that & just play for fun.

[Rapier Racer]

A few of us used to do this in the old days of Wipeout Pure on Xlink Kai, the old slow down then rocket his ass approach, also the devious bombs plus turning around to fire stuff backwards. Now then, who is calling me a coward? :p:donut And Asayyeah, and Lunar and Supersocks and....