New game features

[Task]

So we've got this entire forum for discussion of "Wipeout Yet To Be", but a lot of what I see posted is wishing for gifts from ghost of wipeouts past. Like the return of scraping, or old tracks, or pitlanes, stuff like that. I'm not interested in anything like that.
It seems that the best things each new wipeout brings us are totally new features that we never would have considered at the time. I mean, would any of us (back in Fusion time) have considered a WO w/o pitlanes? Not likely! And yet now I can't imagine a WO that ever has them again. The new absorb mechanic is just too damn good, blows that "pitlane" idea right off the track.
We've definitely been getting better, since I know there was clamouring for Multiplayer Zone and Zone With Weapons, and now we have two new Zone modes in Fury that (from what I've heard) are quite fascinating takes on that exact idea. Still just modifications on the existing theme, but brand new modifications at least!

What I'm interested in, is possible avenues for wipeout to evolve in next. Brand new game mechanics. Features that haven't been seen in any race game before.

Much more difficult, yes?

I'll get the ball rolling here with 1 new modification on an existing feature, and 1 totally new feature.

1) Complex records database as a game feature

I've always hated the simplistic view that the games have used to track the records we make. At first it would just track 5 race times and 1 lap time per track. Then it would track 5 of each. I want to see 1 race time and 1 lap time per track per craft per each possible race setting imaginable! I can easily design a database that will hold all possible combinations of race times, it's simplicity in itself. You curious as to the best Feisar race time you've ever managed on Sinucit Black Rapier with 4 human opponents in the RAIN? We can query that value out of the database for you!
Additionally, with a complex database, you need a nice frontend to view it. So you need control over the x and y axis, perhaps initially "track" and "speed class" with race time/lap time displayed in the boxes, but configurable so you can cycle through any other kind of record view you might be interested in.
This would, of course, require an online database connection. There's no point being #1 in some crazy and obscure category unless you can post it to the world. 8 D
It would be good if the game would store the records of your friends, and the best in the country, and the best in the world as well, so you can work on your records offline.
Oh, and also the ability to hand-delete any particular record. Just in case of, I don't know, some glich that causes impossible times to be entered into your personal records. Or something.
If the game is just a beautiful frontend to a records database, then it should be a really nice database with lots of nifty ways to fetch reports from it.

2) Speed and weapon settings configurable per track.

I'm not talking about turning off certain weapons, that was in Fusion and it was great, I'm talking about turning on and off the pads. Some of the (valid!) criticism on HD is that it can get too crazy with the weapons. What if we turned off 1/3 of the weapon pads? Or 2/3? That would really turn down the violence without killing the competitive spirit! Of course, you can't have it be random. Have the track designers decide. Each weapon pad is either "vital" (on in every weapons race), "basic" (on in most races), or "extra" (on in few races). Imagine if you could set up a single race and instead of just being "Weapons ON/OFF" there were instead the options of "FEW", "MOST" and "ALL".
And if you're going to offer that option for weapon pads, why not offer it for boost pads as well?
Speed settings of "LOW", "MID", and "HIGH" to control how many of the boost pads are active.
This would allow you to really customize your favourite track in multiplayer.
"We've got 6 pilots tonight, so the weapons are turned down to LOW and the speed is on MEDIUM, and it's sure to be quite a race!"

And that's the kind of things I think about when I'm home from work for a day. 8 D

[NightArh]

I want to see accurate ship tuning in the game. I want to disassemble AG craft totally and then to assemble it my way with precise regulation of main onboard units. Dreamers from Studio Liverpool can invent something! :p

[KIGO1987]

I think and believe that SL have got the right formula there, and there efforts are finally paying off,

If you look on a spectrum since Fusion, each Wipeout Game is getting better than its predecessor.

Fusion - Not so good
Pure - Good
Pulse - Great
HD - Awesome

Pulse is still a little better than HD, but only in the amount of content, since its a lesser graphically involved titled.

All is needed now is more in game content preferably more tracks, then it would be killer.

Im quite happy with the game now, i was about to kill myself earlier with the amount of Vista Pads and Windows Barrel Rolls in the game. But since 2.00 it seems like those days are over.

[RJ O'Connell]

I want the option to turn certain weapons on or off back for online play. But I also like the idea of online Racing Leagues, where you can track stats, build a race calendar, assign hosts, invite/ban players, and establish rules based on a ton of options such as:

- Turning certain ships on/off (creating a series of all lightweight ships or a Triakis-only league for example)
- Turning certain or all weapons on/off, and as Jay requested, adjust the frequency of weapons
- Turning respawns on/off (highly requested feature)
- Barrel Rolls/Pilot Assist/Weapon Hints/HUD on/off

Leagues good enough to be "featured" can be viewed by spectators over PlayStation Network ala Forza 2.

It'd be cool to include all the old-school Wipeout games, including WO64 and the rare, Euro-only WO3: SE as unlockables. I know that the original is already available on PSN and that 2097 and W3O will likely come soon, but a limited edition of the game would include an exclusive code to download all those games, included with the cost of the game.

[Mu5]

I think thats a great idea having configurable speed pads and weapons settings :D :+

To expand on this...If you had a 'pad designer' for each track i.e. being able to wipe all pads and then place them where you want (and save the layout obviously) you would get a huge amount of replay value. This could be implemented without having to change the actual physical track design itself. That would be incredible :)

[KIGO1987]

Theres always the idea of create your own custom tracks. Similar to that of Rally Cross 2, and that other game that was displayed at E3 this year. LittlePlanet Racing i think i was, that game looks swwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeettt!!!!!

[Task]

I'm just gonna quote myself here:

What I'm interested in, is possible avenues for wipeout to evolve in next. Brand new game mechanics. Features that haven't been seen in any race game before.
You're quite definitely in the realm of "features seen in other race games", nowhere near the "brand new" we're trying to talk about here.

All the replies but yours have been both on topic and interesting new ideas.
Come on, try harder!

[Darkdrium777]

Manhunt: a take on eliminator. One pilot is the target of everyone else. He has regenerating shield (at the rate of speed lap, but it can go down lower than 15 so he's not invincible), he gets pickups (Red or blue, not green) every x amount of time (passing over a weapon pad or not, since weapon pads are disabled for him), and has a score that goes up with the time he is still "alive" (Like in Zone mode). Like in Eliminator, this guy can flip around, etc. absorb pickup for temporary shield, and gets the shield restore every lap. He gets bonus points for taking down someone else.
The others have to try and take him down. They don't have increasing scores, so they have to hit him to make points. Still the classic stuff of eliminator, flip around, temporary shield, shield regen at each lap. If someone takes down the target, he becomes it.
Also designate an "underdog" at random. This guy is basically like the others, but the target gets HUGE points for killing him, and he gets the same bonus for killing the target (He then becomes the target and another underdog is chosen.)

-idea from gametype "Mutant" in UT2004 xD

Competitive Detonator: Just like Detonator, but with more people playing. People have individual scores, and they shoot mines to increase their score. They can slow others down with Cannon or EMP, but they can't do damage to others, and the weapons cause no sliding into walls when a person is hit. Set a target score, and the person who gets there first wins.

Customizable ion trails, any colour you want from an RGB palette slider. Not just a few selectable colours though, please allow for colour selection from the full colour spectrum and the luminance too (darkness-brightness.)

Customizable ships, allow for some modifications in logo placement, printing of PSN ID or whatever on it. Not imported content if you feel it's a moderation issue.

Replay mode with the features like in the game GRID. Yes, Replay mode was in WO3, but this is different: allow rewinding, pausing, slow motion, camera change, etc. Allow taking pictures. Save replays to hard drive. Replay saving available in any race, Tournament, Zone, Detonator, etc.

[Mu5]

More fresh ideas....'Zone Run'

A track is generated (This is more a 'run', than a track), say every week/month and is available for download. Perhaps versions of 'known' sections of track are used and basically a new track is created every month based on say, 20 random segments of track. I could see this being 'zone style' instead of a realistic track of course :)

Every month its just you, and the track. Say the run will last for 3-5 minutes... and maybe you only have 3 attempts to complete it and set a time?. I think that would be an awesome challenge :D :+

[Rubix42]

Something I've always thought would be cool would be having all weapons available at all times. But you can only use them once every little bit. Basically I'm saying to remove the weapon pads altogether, and just configure the game to allow you to use whatever.

How often have you been in first, gotten missile, rocket, quake, missile and then passed because the person behind you has gotten the same, but was able to use it on you?

It would be nice to select mine/bomb/shield, etc. With a few rules. Say like you can only use 1 item every 10 seconds (about how often a weapon pad shows up on average at phantom) and you can only use each item a certain number of times per race. Like 3 total boosts. 2 total bombs, 1 quake, 2 missiles, etc.

Now the game instead of having the random element provided by the weapon pads, has become even more strategic. Do I use an early boost, and then drop a bomb in a tight chicane on the first lap, and hope I maintain the lead? Do I hang back and try to make a two lap charge at the end of the race? Stuff like that.

Not sure how easy it would be to set up, you may have to assign a button to cycle the weapons, but man, the idea of it gets me excited.

Another idea I had was moving the tracks even more 3-d. This might be a bit along the lines of another game, but maybe throwing the game into a space like setting with not just left/right turns, but giving it up/down/left/right turns. Take a track like Chenghou. Instead of a hard left hairpin on that first turn, how about a hard left/down hairpin, and instead of a track, you are now racing in a tube...

[Haywire_Guy]

I was thinking, do you think a new mode could be called Air Race?

As in an omni directional anti-gravity racer where you can fly through futuristic archways, cybernetic ruins etc. It would be in similar racing styles to say, Fatal Intertia EX.

You would use an aircraft themed modified versions of the original crafts from Wipeout HD and some of the weapons would be altered slightly, like Mines would be larger, lockon for plasmas/machine guns etc.

I dunno sounds rather un-wipeout-ish once i type it down on forum o.o, but what does everyone else think?

[ACE-FLO]

Good idea imo - more game modes ftw!!!

I also think a story mode would be good too. Wipeout already has a pretty well established fan fic thing going on. SL have their own stories regarding pilots, craft, racing seasons etc - so why not?

[Task]

I dunno sounds rather un-wipeout-ish once i type it down
I'm gonna hafta agree with you on that one, it sounds like a totally different kind of game.
I would say that while new features and game modes are definitely interesting, it should still be recognizably wipeout.

Lots of really interesting ideas to see in this thread, that's for sure!

[swift killer]

how about different physical and statistical variations of each ship (not like the failed hideous attempt in fusion) so it would recreate the 'developement cycle' in real motorsport, if you do well in a ship you get an 'updated' or 'upgraded' but these might be a step back in performance if your doing exceedingly well or a step forward if your struggling.

eg: if you win 100% of races in Triakis: you'll sacrifice abit more handling for more speed or sheild but if you win 50%: you'll get more handling

[Aeroracer]

I was thinking, do you think a new mode could be called Air Race?

As in an omni directional anti-gravity racer where you can fly through futuristic archways, cybernetic ruins etc. It would be in similar racing styles to say, Fatal Intertia EX.

You would use an aircraft themed modified versions of the original crafts from Wipeout HD and some of the weapons would be altered slightly, like Mines would be larger, lockon for plasmas/machine guns etc.

I dunno sounds rather un-wipeout-ish once i type it down on forum o.o, but what does everyone else think?


sounds cool i thought it would make a good game..but it's not wipeout anymore.being on a tight unforgiving race track makes the game what it is. everyone just wants to do the perfect lap. free flying is just a different thing altogether.:nod:nod

[Mu5]

how about different physical and statistical variations of each ship

Great idea :+ It would be great if we could have 'normal' and 'aero' modes similar to that in cyber formula. Maybe aero would boost your ship to 'Zen' speed (and change its shape to a more aerodynamic version) for certain time, that would rock :guitar :+

[AppleJack]

I have several ideas, though many are not exactly new and are found in other race games.

I like the idea of configurable weapon/speed pads, and having some kind of limits on how often a given weapon can be used in a race. Either of these would add some more strategy into the game.

I'd also like the ability to adjust settings on the ships so they can be set up for a particular track.

An in-game customization system for ship skins would be cool too.

A "build-your-own-ship" feature would be nice.

Point-to-point races in Wipeout would be interesting (like downhill and/or hill-climb races).

Have an optional pre-race qualification session or have a way to determine starting position based on your best single-lap or time-trial times. The one thing about Wipeout that has always annoyed me is that it always starts you in last place in races (in single-player at least).

:donut + :burger + :coffee = :hyper

[graeble]

all tracks from previous games re-made for HD and available as DLC

[Lance]

That one's more one of the oldest ideas, though, instead of a new idea. Although it's not actually been dOne before. :D

[abukii]

I dont know. I think WipEout has achieved modes not found in any other game.

One thing Ive always wanted to see is a track editor/creator. Not original by any stretch, but it sure would be cool.

[Mu5]

Yeah I would love that also - but it would be a huge amount of development and testing for the SL guys :)

On this note, I read that people still play and share tracks using the F-Zero track editor on the N64 with DD expansion......after all these years! Im going to try and purchase one at somepoint as I have never played it. It sounds awesome! :D

[Subsonic Retinal Burn]

Got a couple of ideas:
- Online competitive speed lap: it would essentially be just like the campaign speed lap, just with an online group of players. All the ships around you will be ghosts, fastest lap after the designated amount of laps have been finished by everyone wins.
- Arena eliminator: pretty much an eliminator game in a simple circular track and other similar wide open style tracks. You regain energy by eliminations instead of doing laps. Absorbing is disabled and there are shield pickups available amongst the weapons. Can choose to use the hd points system or just go by kills. can be set to either reach a certain amount of points/kills or set it for most points/kills after a certain time limit being the means of victory.
- Zone media player: plays music with the computer doing a zone run from the cockpit view for the length of the song. Not so much a play mode, more of a potentially cool aesthetic thing I suppose.
If I stole an idea from anyone I apologise.

[Koleax]

I don't think it needs any genre-breaking new features. It's an extremely good game already and that's without Zone Battle, Eliminator, and Detonator.

What it needs are some basic features from other games, like the ability to save and download replays and ghosts from online leaderboards. Not just the top times either. Forza 2, for example, will let you view the replay and race against the ghosts for even low rankings. Rez HD, which is not a racing game, will let you download and watch the whole replay from the leaderboards. There's so much beauty and excitement you can unlock by enabling these features.

We can't have them because PSN has to be free, right? :(

[Task]

Of course it's a good game. It's a fantastic game. But part of the game is that it evovles with every single iteration. A truly game-breaking change would be to have a WO with no changes, that's never happened before.

If you have a look around, you can find out that we already have the ability to save and DL replays from an online leaderboard. Had it since WO3. Well, ghost laps anyway. Of course, it isn't automated as part of the game yet, and I imagine that's what you're thinking...

No idea what any of that has to do with PSN. Nothing, I imagine.

[Koleax]

Some changes were less dramatic than others. In any case I am not asking for no changes, but a stabilization and refinement of what already exists. A recommitment to 60fps is another good one. Maybe I just don't want to be greedy.

elHabib's site is great, but very few people actually go through the trouble to share their ghosts.

I would imagine PSN being free having something to do with a lack of standard features in the way games interact with leaderboard servers. On XBL there is a consistent design philosophy for leaderboards and navigation. Whatever the game, you can expect to highlight a particular score and view more information about it, namely the player's profile and a replay of that particular gaming session.

I do not know for certain, but I get the distinct impression that, because money is directly tied to XBL, there are people directly responsible for sustaining that revenue stream by providing a quality service. I do not get that impression from PSN at all. They seem to have very little incentive to sustain a network with comprehensive features like automated replay sharing.

[ACE-FLO]

A rear view display on the HUD would be nice - instead of having to press a button just to look behind you at blazingly frightening speeds...

... and I think I'd like to see a system online where your rank displays you as a colour so if you want, you can join the races of those who are in the same rank zone as you are, therefore avoiding things like pilots quitting on you all the time, coz you can match your games easier...

Dunno - just brainstorming!

[judus]

Change the visual style. It is always refreshing to have a different take on the visuals. Wipeout 1, 2097, 3, Fusion And Pure were quite different in their style. Pulse seemed a little close to Pure and HD is a revisualisation of an existing style on updated hardware. Perhaps even revisiting a previous style is a refreshing take on the visuals (much like HD).

Its something that not a lot of games do, but a new wipeout game would be all the more familiar yet evolved if the visuals change whether its an older style or a new one.

[abukii]

Not so much new, but here here:

Ability to pause and switch options (like PA and music) during the 3-2-1-GO! countdown.

In lobby text chat (to make up for the lack of voice for some).

[Zitrax]

Just some random ideas:

1. Some kind of team play mode where you could transfer energy to your team mate (opposite of leech beam), and perform some kind of combos by picking up items that can only be used if any of your team mates has the other "part" of it. For every normal weapons ( like rocket ) you could chose to shoot them out of your ship or your mates, you would have some small view out of that ship so you could glance at what was going on there.

2. Completely random generated tracks (or with optional tunable parameters), where you got a couple of laps to learn it before the real race starts.

3. Tube sections - like the mag strips but formed like tubes so you could race on them at every path of the 360 degrees, perhaps with transitions from racing inside the tube to on top of a tube. Maybe even a race on a klein-bottle ? Ok maybe I am taking it a bit too far :)

4. Ok not a new idea, but "real" ratings like for example in chess.

[ZenDJiNN]

I would really really love to have the ability to record each race, then when finished, go into some kind of editing suite (all within wipeout of course) and be able to choose what cameras to use, when to swap from camera to camera, zoom functions, on track mini cams etc. Then, when happy with the result, save to whatever format you like (Raw, avi, MP4 etc). That would be a really good feature (For me anyway).

Also :+ for ACE-FLO's HUD camera showing a kind of "Rear View Mirror". That would be very helpful. Having to press the Circle button to look behind is slow & also disorientating when returning to forward view. :)

[brainbeat]

Would be great to have coop mode (1 racing and 1 gunning in fps mode). Kinda like motorcycle and sidecart racing, Also i dont know if wipeout1 is the 1st ag league in the history of wipeout but would be great if they did a remake or an earlier version, with older technology.

[abukii]

How about weather effects that you can turn on or off? Thatd be great. Id love to see some water on the track or it snowing, all limiting visibility. Also, in-game, real time car damage.

[Zitrax]

Also, in-game, real time car damage.

That could also affect the handling of the craft, like maneuvering a badly damaged craft would be harder. But would ship energy and damage be linked ? That is would absorbing a weapon automagically transform the ship back into it's original undamaged shape ?

[Task]

Yeah, they did that in Fusion.
So nothing new in that idea, unfortunately.
Get yourself some Fusion and give it a spin. See what you think of it. Personally, I found that it was an interesting idea but poorly executed.
Instead of penalizing the player for getting damaged, there should be a reward for avoiding damage.

I'm definitely liking the 2-player co-op idea! That would be a fantastic addition to the game! Especially with how integral the internet play is to HD, it seems like that's the main mode a lot of pilots like to fly. Understandable, once I got myself some multiplayer there was really no looking back!

Co-op multiplayer? I think that would just be the ultimate addition.
The only problem might be getting the controller out of my hands! 8 )

"Crack? That's weak schitt! Try some of this co-op WipEout multiplayer! We're talking serious addictive power here!"

[abukii]

I have Fusion...just havent played it in years. As for the multi player co-op...wait for Twin-Turbo. Youll see I tickle all of the funny bones, mate;)

*edit...* WO TT isnt a video game, but the concept of Co-op is there. Cheers, and sorry for the confusion:)

[brainbeat]

Yeah i was thinking would be great, you could have a certain amount of cannon ammo per lap, Primary weapon, and then secondary weapons, could have like aim disrupter weapons ect.

[P52Smith]

How about weather effects that you can turn on or off? Thatd be great. Id love to see some water on the track or it snowing, all limiting visibility.
How about wind.
Depending on the relative direction it could slow you down/speed you up/push you to the side. This effect would be small but could affect handling. An amplified effect could also be applied to weapons to increase the difficulty. It could make bombs and mines much harder to avoid if their moving slightly.

[il_mago_di_Doz]

There are a lot of ideas on this topic :rock

Some of my favourites:
- team races
- more than 1 ship for each wo team/speed class
- custom skin/ships
- extreme mode (if you die or if you fly away ... you're out!)
- real-time damages for the ships AND the tracks

What they can cut-off:
- detonator because it's not so much "wipeoutians"
- eliminator mode becouse it's too "random"!!

good night

[P52Smith]

I'd agree that Eliminator needs some work done but it doesn't need removing.
I can't comment on detonator but from what I have seen it could be adjusted to a weapon practice mode.

[abukii]

I like them both. As for the wind...well thatd just be AWESOME. Good idea!!

[il_mago_di_Doz]

I agree! :rock Wind and variable weather conditions could be just inceredible features :hyper
Maybe with ps4? Who knows :P

[OBH]

After trying my hardest today at the sol2 double br on the bridge, i really, really wish you could set yourself a waypoint to teleport to like on "skate". Then you could attempt those difficult brs withought needing to do a whole bloody lap again :) and no, i cant be arsed to turn around :beer

[Aeroracer]

i agree..make like a training mode.you could select a corner to practice or anything..thats a cool idea..

maybe weapon practice options too in the training option.

[P52Smith]

How about a battle mode as in Mario Kart but the aim is to destroy the opposing ships over simple arenas.
No autopilot, sheild only reduces damage taken to 15% of standard, weapon pads dotted around fairly sparsly, respawn option (off(default)/set number/infinite), few speed pads, but would need a redesign to be omnidirectional boost or left as single direction for added strategic value, optional time limit, absorbing restores energy but 25% of what would be absorbed during a normal race, quake erupts in triangle in front of ship, reduced damage the further away, max range so it doesn't keep going until it meets the edge.
Is that too much detail?

Any other thoughts?

[Mr Phlanj]

that would be good but what speed because even in a big space battling at phantom would be nuts!

[aethernet]

In Extreme G 2, they had tanks that replaced the bikes for battle mode. So like there should be racing ships, zone ships, and tank ships for arena battles. That would justify the differing ship mechanics, so that you could have different absorb rates for tanks. Other stuff could then be changed as well, and be explained away by the fact that its a tank, not a racing craft.

[ONlock]

To balance out BR's, introduce energy pads..

Say you have two bonus pads on the track, one is a speed pad, and the other a energy pad, the non barrel rollers will fly over the speed pad to get ahead, and the barrel rollers will save up some energy for their next flight, by flying over the energy pad, the energy pad will give them approximately the same energy they lost from barrel rolling.

And remove being able to absorb weapons, to balance it out.

Tradeoff is the word here, with a capital "T"!

What say you?

[Lance]

I think that might give an even greater advantage to the BR approach than it already has.
?

[ONlock]

How can it?

They will be placed on the track so that you must choose which way to race. they won't be placed after each other. So it will be impossible to benefit from both pads at the same time. That's what I had in mind anyways.

Or was it something else you were thinking about, Lance?

[ACE-FLO]

Agree with Lance here. Br's are a trade off (capital T or no) anyway - you lose ship energy for executing a BR - hence the trade off... for those who don't BR, well it's part of the game mechanic, so if you don't BR, it's your choice. Executing a BR is a matter of confidence, knowing the track, and knowing the tracks' executable BR spots. This comes with practice, lots of it, and some pilots just don't get it - imo, they are the ones who don't like the BR option. For those who have put in the hours,. commitment and practiced perfecting their lines, executing a BR in a non obvious BR spot is rewarding. And I do beleive this - serious hardcore wipers will learn those BR spots for that extra rush, to amplify their adrenaline! Am I wrong? :?

I see what you mean though, ONlock, but if your idea was employed in a future release - I would feel that SL woulda just saved themselves the trouble of adding extra code if they just removed the BR mechanic altogether...

Initially, when BR's were introduced in PURE, I thought wtf? but once I learned how to do them, it actually increased my gaming pleasure for wipeout. A BR with internal mode on = YAY-ness...

Now, I just can't play W'O" without doing BRs...

SL got it right with the BR mechanic, my opinion. :)

[jan709]

I agree with ACE-FLO, i really love the br's and would hate to see them removed.

maybe its a good idea to mix the battle mode idea with the co-op turrets? One player driving and doingfront fire weapons like quakes and the operating the turret?

[Lance]

BRs already give a speed advantage over ships taking the correct non-BR line; to allow BR users to replenish their energy so easily along the BR line would give them an even greater advantage than they already have, or at least that is the thought that occurred to me.

[SaturnReturn]

If these pads were all over the track, then I can see how it might be an advantage. At the moment you have to absorb to replenish shields. Sometimes you just won't be able to get a weapon to absorb. This is part of the risk of doing lots of barrel rolls. Having pads that were always charged up would take an element of risk out of it, because you could almost always rely on replenishing your shield, even without absorb.

It sounds interesting to me though. But as I think about it more, it really just makes me think about the pit lanes in older games. If these were present, they would potentially act as a way to limit how much a ship could recharge, and therefore the amount of BRs a person could do per lap. Those who didn't do the BRs could perhaps whizz past on a slightly shorter/faster route by not going into the pit lane. Although they'd probably need to recharge their shields too after being hit with weapons I guess. Perhaps two pit lanes - one which recharges BR meter and one which recharges defensive shields. Or two different absorb buttons - one for BRs and one for shields. I guess there are lots of ways it could be done, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were all discussed long before I got here. I'm assuming alternatives like this were also investigated and dismissed by the games' creators for various reasons, or maybe they've not experimented with different options for BR implementation much so far. :?:

[Lazokaeи]

Career mode.

Do a sub-league (for reference: GP2 / F2), and then the main (reference: Formula 1) league FX5000 (or something, they change it so randomly! lol - I prefered F9000 tbh).

And you can build your way up and as a pilot.

An ever changing AI would be awesome too. Don't allow the user to just select "difficulty: pro/amatuer/novice". You start out earning your stripes alongside some rookies and also some other guys who have been in the lower league for a while and are either in their 2nd / 3rd years and still can't secure a pilot seat in the main league, or they are guys who were in the main league and were dropped etc. (There's the story backgrounds there).

As the career evolves, the racers ALL get points, so the AI develops too. If the guys crash it affects them too, or if they get blown up etc.

The way to determine starting difficulty is to use a storyline classic... "tryouts for rookies". You do tryouts on all tracks in generic racers (F9000 rookie trial machines - or something like that), and that determines how good you are and can match up others around you (you could start the best in the league - ala lewis hamilton 2007 who blew peeps away) or down the bottom and build up (dare I say Alonso in Minardi, who was good, but now look at him etc.)

You get what I mean I'm sure.

Also, the added element of online racing. Well, that brings the game into another dimension if geniuine leagues were formed with all people being able to enter a league (limited to 4 races a week for officials) this then stops people "running" away with it and allows other people who may only play a few nights to get all their time-trials in. - I say time trial as it's easier than trying to arrange matches with say people online in Russia! - So online league would be TT.

Of course, offline, or online in friendlies could improve your time, thus getting more gameplay out of the game.

[ACE-FLO]

We already do these TT and SL challenges, ... for obvious reasons, Studio Liverpool left the organisation of online events/races to us pilots. They provide us with the server and we organise the rest! Check out Dark_Phantom89's Weekly SL challenge thread in the arena! Have a good look around actually, you'll see how we zoners like to take the experience to another level :) hope to see your ship at avalon! ;)

[cort_weiss]

the idea of a gunner and a racer in the same ship sounds great 2 player cooperative is something great

but what really needs this game is an inside view of the cockpit, I would like to see the controls steering and everything on screen while I'm racing, one of the things that made me fall in love with wipeout is the way the ship moves while you turn, it makes you feel really in the game while you have first person view, see the controls of the ship would be like a dream come true

other one would be story line in campaign, not a bargain story comic like, I mean something more like a story of the drivers life, not going too far "NFS Carbon", "NFS underground" or a not so popular racing game "R-Racing Evolution" (Multiplat: PS2, X-BOX, GC) these games had a story line of racing and challenges without going all the way to fantasy shooting villians and that

Merge_____________________________________________ ______________________________________Merge

oh I almost forgot, something that we players need and in these days we have no more is multiplayer on a single console

back in the days of the Game Cube the X-Box and before, I could play with MY FRIENDS, real friends, true people that I could beat, shout, hit, feed if nessesary XD, up to four with one console, now I cannot play with them if they don't have the console and the game, and belive me bringging my console and my widescreen lcd to my friend's home is not a good idea

new games = online multiplayer
social life = 0

I want to play with my friends not people that I just really don't know because they are in all the planet except in my home

[OBH]

i had an idea last night.
To stop people sponging pick ups fpr health while out in front and just bring like crazy while hoping for a boost, instead of absorbing weapons each speed pad you hit should give a little bit of health back.

If pads and weapons where placed next to each other on track, youd be forced to make a tactical choice each and every time you pass one.

[Dan Locke]

Why not just bring back the old pit-lane?

[SaturnReturn]

I had the same idea as OBH a while ago, and I do think it would make things more tactical. At the moment you can take the weapons all the time and if it's no good you can have more shield instead. I think one or the other would be more interesting tactically. The pit lane idea would potentially limit the number of BRs per lap, which some would like, but I don't think it would introduce any new tactical element. I can't remember where the post I made on this was now but I think I wrote a fair bit on it. Probably more than anyone could be bothered reading. Will see if I can find it later.

[yeldar2097]

Online TT and make permanent ghosting an option for normal games.

[someguy789]

A ship skin editor and in-depth upgrading would be nice
I'd actually like to see pit lanes come back its more fun having to wait to to get to the pits for more health than just absorbing weapons

[jan709]

It might be me but i think i've seen at least one thread about this already.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I don't know if this sounds crazy to you guys,but to me it does not.Similar to Clashing from Crash Tag Team racing,this allows ships to combine into one in "Tag Team" Mode.Stats are those of the higher ones(I was thinking of a Qirex/FEISAR Combination which looks somewhat similar to an F9000 FEISAR Stage 4,with the better of the two stats as the stat for that category.for example the Qirex-FEISAR combi has 10/10 handling,8/10 speed and so on)
Laps per "Tag team" event
Venom:4
Flash and Rapier:5
Phantom:6
1st lap is for clashing(find a "team mate"),2nd to 2nd last lap race together,final lap split up before finishing the race.If not combined after 1st lap,automatic DQ
Idea from:The imaginary CX-70 Youth AG Racing League,"Tag Team" Race

[Motorsagmannen]

this sounds a b unballanced imo. if you clash a piranha with an ag-sys you get something with the stats:
10
9
9
9
and thats just with the pre fury ships.
or mirage assegai.
8
8
9
8

qirex triakis
9
7
8
9
well, to sum it up, balanced teams would suffer on this. but two teams with different extreme stats gain greatly

[drell]

I would like to see some actual team battle racing available. With weapons not hitting your team. I see all these nice videos of team battles already happening, but mistakes happen.
Maybe focus more on the team aspect. I was thinking like adding a points system, which counts the time your team spends in the lead comparatively to the other team(s) and adds more point to you compared to teams in the back. Sort of like a capture and hold game, but in WipEout with teams. It could be to achieve a goal score, or to finish a race with the highest points. Teams could be 2v2v2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4... It could be pretty interesting I think! This way, you have to intentionally help out your team members stay in the race instead of maybe staying ahead all the time while your team stays at the back because opponents are in the middle. If you don't go helping your team, opponents will win because they average more points by holding the middle than you and your team holding front and back...
Balance will of course be worked on... Like for example I think mines and bombs should auto detonate still when a team member comes close, but do no damage (Explain this in the story, by saying that if a friend is detected by the proximity systems, the mine disassembles instead of detonating the explosives). Weapons could also be team colored to identify these mines and bombs.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

this sounds a b unballanced imo. if you clash a piranha with an ag-sys you get something with the stats:
10
9
9
9

well, to sum it up, balanced teams would suffer on this. but two teams with different extreme stats gain greatly

Clash a FEISAR and a Piranha and you get.....
Speed:10
Shield:9
Thrust:8
Handling:10

Woah........But did the game engine on Crash Tag Team Racing use the higher stats or were they averaged?

[SaturnReturn]

I think this would all depend on what racing together entails. What would each player control once combined? Or are there two separate ships with those stats?

But one other thing - people really need to get used to a ship to be any good in it. Statistics are only a small part of the equation. Any Piranha pilot who suddenly finds his/herself in a ship with FEISAR handling (or vice-versa) would find themselves struggling with the sudden chance in steering ability. At least I reckon I would. So combining with a ship with more similar stats to your own and thereby not hurling yourself into walls at every corner could be a much better option.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I think this would all depend on what racing together entails. What would each player control once combined? Or are there two separate ships with those stats?
@SaturnReturn:One pilot would be steering the craft,the other would be weapons control(use and absorb)(Example:CX-70 Tag Team Race.My bro and I clash ships(same team(does not need to be same team,but recommended),more "affinity"in that we don't fight much when working together).He takes over weapons,I handle navigation(including barrel rolls,sideshifts)).To have two separate ships would be a bit crazy.......how can there be two separate ships?Cut and paste of different craft parts?

[SaturnReturn]

Lol, no idea. But in that sense it sounds crazy from the start to me, i.e. completely unrealistic, but still interesting in a creative way.

[Motorsagmannen]

Any Piranha pilot who suddenly finds his/herself in a ship with FEISAR handling (or vice-versa) would find themselves struggling with

interesting point. i can see how that might be troublesome. but how about this then? Icaras+goteki=
10 speed
10 thrust
7 handling
8 shield.
virtually same handling, max speed and thrust, much better shield than icaras.
i know i am nitpicking, but i cant stop the feeling that if a feature entering a quite balanced high speed racer isnt. that could ruin the overall experience.

ill stop beeing a buzzkill in 3.2.1. now :P

[SaturnReturn]

Fair point. Those are still only four stats though. Some ships with similar stats already feel completely different. It would take a lot of thought in the implementation. To be honest, I can only imagine this in cartoon style racing games anyway, where you completely separate yourself from any notion of reality, rather than WipEout, where I kind of treat it more like an alternate reality to get over the unreal-ness. But it's still an interesting concept that I'd never heard of before.

There are surely other tag-team style games we could have too. What about just doing a Le Mans style endurance race where one comes into the pits and the other goes off. I think endurance races are reasonably popular in Avalon, although I can rarely handle more than one in one session. Maybe that's a more realistic idea of team play in WipEout. I think drell's main idea sounded interesting too. Although I'm dead set against the first little bit about turning off friendly fire. Without it there's not much more to think about in a team game then racing and shooting the same as in an individual game.

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I was thinking like adding a points system, which counts the time your team spends in the lead comparatively to the other team(s) and adds more point to you compared to teams in the back. Sort of like a capture and hold game, but in WipEout with teams. It could be to achieve a goal score, or to finish a race with the highest points.

I really like this idea. Sounds like a great new game mode.

[Xavier]

How about a new kind of pad: the ramp pad? It jumps your ship a few feet in the air, just barely enough time to pull off a BR if you're quick.

If one ship hits it, it deactivates for a few seconds, just like weapon pads. Or maybe it could deactivate and then slowly come back to full strength/height rather than being an all-or-nothing thing. But if you hit it when it's still "weak", you won't be able to get enough air for the BR.

(Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind weapon pads slowly recharging. Let's say you hit a weapon pad an instant after the guy in front of you. If it's a cannon, maybe you get 5 bullets instead of 30. Similar weakening for the other weapons; smaller boost, shorter shield, etc.)

Or how about this?

* Boost and weapon pads get "stronger" as more ships pass over them. So if everyone's hitting one speed pad every lap, it glows extra-bright and sends ships zooming ahead when they hit it.

* Or, alternatively, speed pads weaken as more ships touch them. You'd have an incentive to try different racing lines on the later laps.

[Dan Locke]

Jump pads? I didn't like them in F-ZERO; they'd be even worse in Wipeout. Heck; the engine's so floaty that I can just fly off of the track on my own.

[Motorsagmannen]

didnt they kinda have awkward jump pads on some tracks in fusion? not the gravity flip pads, those were awesome

[Xavier]

The gravity flip pads seemed more gimmicky than interesting in Fusion. I liked F-Zero's jump pads, though. I think it might be more Wipeout-like to maybe have them work as a hybrid of speed and weapon pads and be "consumable" in that they deactivate briefly after one ship flies over them.

Speaking of Fusion, I kind of liked the "open" areas in that game, though at times they made it difficult to see where the course was. I still think something could be done with that again.

[Motorsagmannen]

how about weapon pads with a limited stockpile? I.E if a weapon pad is hit more than 5 times it goes off-line permanently

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Going slightly off-topic here...
@Motorsagmannen
I think the pads do not give weapons.They are already on the ship(i think).The weapon pads just give the "password" or access key to use the weapon(I think there is an onboard computer,just that it is not obvious).If weapon is absorbed,the "password" is converted into ship energy.

[Dan Locke]

Yeah; hitting a pad arms a single use of a random weapon already onboard the ship. You can see the rockets and cannons on the actual models, even if you don't currently have a weapon ready.

Re: pads with limited stock

BAD idea. What's the point? They're there for a reason; why bother at all if simply using them makes them disappear?

[MiguelX69]

How about some faster speed classes? I know, I know, even at phantom I eat more walls that anything else but... Would still be exciting to race at Anulpha Pass or Syncopia with 8 friends and all of this in a SuperSonic speed :D

Would like also a bigger carrer. The guys at SL didn't made any reverse tracks on the campaign.

EDIT: Also I would like all the tracks from Pure/Pulse that aren't alreaddy in the game (Like for example Outpost 7).

[JaceMc]

Somebody mentioned earlier about having an automated Zone mode as a music visualiser, which is an idea I've had before. I've been looking for a good visualiser for a long time now, one that looks good (the iTunes visualiser) but also represents the music well, which the iTunes one does not. It seems like all the particles are just jumping around of their own accord. In Zone though, they did a great job. You can see the bass kick extremely easily on the track floor, and all the billboards with their own kinds of visualisers look great.

Doesn't have to be in the next game, just be cool if Studio Liverpool released an application that did it.

Oh yeah, and bring back the concept art you unlocked for every gold medal in Pure. That was a massive incentive for me to finish the campaign in that game, that stuff was awesome.

[Sengoku]

ENDURANCE MODE! Like they do in the Gran Turismo games! Nuff Said! :D

[A-Tomic_Power]

Then how about limited weapon loadout for ships. Or having a limited loadout that you can choose before the race i.e have more rockets at expense of not be able to have quake. More combat oriented ships like Triakis could have more weapons onboard but the weight gives worse handling and thrust.

[Nutcase:259]

I so far have only thought of 2 ideas (and im sorry if theyve already come up before, Great minds think alike eh? :lol)

Zone race. just the same as zone except with 8 people to see who can hold out the longest? maybe all ships could have the detonator style reloading machine guns to make it slightly harder, so not only do you have to keep control at zone 90. but also be accurate to get rid of those pesky uber zoners. once your destroyed your out. and the zones go up for everyone at the same time like the single player zone.


also the other was like a speed lap eliminator. ok, so everyone goes round the track at the start like normal for the 1st lap. but then whoever crosses the line and sets the fastest lap. every player once they've crossed the line must complete that lap in exactly or under the fastest lap time. and whoever doesn't is eliminated, then when a new fastest lap is set you have to do it quicker that that fastest lap and so on. until theres only one player left. HOWEVER. in order to stop someone doing a 7BR+ uber lap and eliminating everyone in the first 'round', the final player must beat his own time in order to 'win' so that way i guess the difficulty gradually builds up.
(ive no idea if ive explained that at all well but basically its like my own sadistic speed lap eliminator race thingy!)

[Challenger #001]

Taking on Nutcase's idea, I like it if it's like a multiplayer Detonator, with one clip per lap, 10hp generated at the end of each lap and speed increase all the time. :D I can see it getting a bit hectic though...

I do like the idea of maybe time eliminators, each pilot in last place at the end of the lap gets sent to the great scrapheap in the sky. :D Alternatively there could be a 'Domination' style race. You get points for setting the best sector times, and the person with the most points at the end wins.

[lovedr]

loving some of the ideas that have already been suggested like:

1) the track editor
2) the rear-view HUD
3) music visualisator (that's surely not a word?)
4) complete ship customisation

how about the following, not saying they're good, just throwing them out there:

5) dedicated ps3 wipeout-branded negcon controller (worth a shot)
6) real-time damage (previously suggested) but implemented in a Grid Racedriver way
7) option to store more than one "item" and cycle through to release
8) power-ups / speed pads have a cumalative effect ie the more hit in a row before use the stronger the effect
9) following on from last point, ala Split Second, weapon power builds up, if saved, then let off in one go for more devastation
10) and likewise, ala Split Second, destructable scenery, alternate route opening up, tried in fusion but needs to be better implemented hence the reference

...just thoughts.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I wonder what happened to the Pits.I once had a force wall go into a pit on WipEout 3 and I hit that wall in the pit only to come out.(Off-topic)
How about Objective Mode?By that,I mean tasks like doing a number of BRs for the whole race and doing certain things like using the Amphi Rev shortcut.
I wonder if Outrun mode is possible.At the end of the lap,there is that signature Outrun split/branch.You decide which track you want to go to at the split.

[GameKyuubi]

I'd like to see magstrips get either removed entirely or at least not slow your ship down. The speed thing is obnoxious and I think they promote lazy track design in general.

As for team races, did anyone play the original Sonic Riders? It had an interesting but questionable mechanic where you were punished for straying too far from your partner and were stronger if you were near each other. You and your teammate also shared fuel IIRC. If we adapt this for Wipeout, teammates could share shield and have an extra shared weapon slot that they could switch their current weapon for. Don't like the weapon you got? Toss it in the shared slot. Your teammate can then swap it with their weapon if needed. It would also make sense to only decide the race when both teammates have crossed the line. This promotes the better player to hang back and defend the weaker one instead of ditching him.

OR OR OR
You could have one set (Team 1 P1 & T2P1) of players race the track forward, while the other set (T1P2 & T2P2) races the track BACKWARD.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

@GameKyuubi:About your second possibility-Would the track have no jumps at all or is the track adapted like in HD where jumps are Mag-Stripped(Like Chenghou Project) or would the jumps be "neutered"(like Anulpha Pass)? Because if the track in the forward variation has jumps and the other team member has to race it backwards,some cosideration is needed.And I suppose you know that it is possible to actually race the Reverse version of Vineta K,Modesto Heights,Chenghou Project and Anulpha Pass like it was the Forward version?

[mikrucio]

Ok heres mine from a professional producers viewpoint..
This is what id do given the job of producing the next game.

1. Short and long version of each track (current tracks) like in fusion but no in between version. Eg. Sol2 current version could be the "short" version and the "long" version could be a few more turns and straight or whatever added on somewhere..
and reverse of theses as well..

2.Starting grid animation for all the teams. How do the ships get to the start grid? do they magically appears there (they do now) And a different one for each team, and at the start of the race you get a random view does not have to be your own team. and of course you can skip it with any button press.

eg. Team Goteki's mechanics push the ship out of the garage with minimal effort as it floats onto the start grid... short but effective.

3.Podium finish animations. Again a country flag or pilot/ship animation does not have to be fancy. just something to get you "in" the game more.

4. Bring back super weapons aka fusion but not so over the top.
could be a simple but effective thing for example, instead of a normal "bomb" drop. Your special for that particular ship could be a "double bomb" drop that drops two bombs next to each other to take out a row of ships.
And to activate the "supers" you must fill a super gauge by hitting consecutive speed pads, say 8. if you hit a weapon pad by accident the gauge will drop.
This would balance the weapons out and make not only the leader use different tactics but the chaser could opt only to go speed pads to activate his homer missile.... could be loads of fun..

5.Allow multiplayer detonator mode.imagine that! except to balance it out instead of the "bombs" doing an emp blast. the bombs will activate your air brakes to slow you down allowing people behind to pass you. so the targets in front must be picked off with skill. not just blasting.

6.The biggest thing. Ship customisation. aka Need for speed underground 2.
If I had to choose one this would be it. Colors, decals, effects, engine types etc all visual ofcourse nothing to unbalance the game.
It would make it so much better to be able to associate a particular ship with a pilot. You could earn unlocks to all the decals and colors and stuff in the campaign.

7. Bring back damage. Visual only. I would love to see scared ships when damaged and especially damaged ships combined with ship customization above! that would be awesome.

8. Barrel roll on empty energy. I would love to be able to barrel roll with no energy left so that the ship BLOWS UP! after you perform the barrel roll!
sort of like in Motorstorm pacific rift. you can overload the boost and the car blows up but it still carries momentum enough to cross the finish line.
How many times could you have won that race with only ONE MORE BARREL ROLL!

9. Finally a visual warning for incoming projectiles.
How many times have you been quaked and the chick didnt say "quake"
Should be able to look up at the HUD and see incoming projectiles.

What do you guys think of these ideas?

[icarasDragon]

Wasn't it that from Fusion that the Ships were raised on a Mag-Platform to the grid under the track, so that means certain tracks need their undersides thickened at the start EG: Sol2

[mikrucio]

yeah thats right, but never really made sense. it makes more sense to "push" the ships out of a garage or whatever onto the track. the teams would have mechanics aka F1.