is this the end of BSB?

[shapealot]

i noticed with the new update that you no longer press select to get your boost back you now have to hold L1 but this seems to be on a timer making it a lot harder to pull off, as far as i know all the top times are done using BSB myself included.

does this mean that the top times r gona stay there forever???

i dont think studio liverpool intended invalidate lap to be used the way we have and have tried to sort it out as best they could. the only way round that would be to wipe the speed lap leaderboards clean an start fresh but surely this is unfair on evrybody who spent months improving times bit by bit.

i just wondered what everybody else thinks about this?

u can still do some of the BSB starts on speed laps but in my opinion they will never be as fast as it was before

[Jambo]

I read that as the British Superbike's and wondered if I was on the wrong forums.....

I reckon they will have to wipe the boards as there have been changes made to barrel rolls as well.

Maybe not though, I don't really know.

[blackwiggle]

I find that hard to believe .

For one reason that a LOT of people change their air brakes from R2 L2 to R1 L1.

I haven't experienced what you describe,but if true that would be a MAJOR stuff up

[Motorsagmannen]

as far as i could tell you need to hold down the button for 3 seconds continously to get a new turbo. i never used the bsb myself, but because it was already considered a move which needed great skill and timing to perform, it would seem that it is now impossible on most tracks.
and this again triggers your dilemma, because it would surely mean that getting a top 5 speedlap from now on will be close to impossible.
not sure what SL can do about the leaderboards though. i would think that their only options would be:

1: clear the entire speedlap board.
2: leave it as it is
3: delete all records made after 1.3

none of these options are ideal, so it is a tough call.

[blackwiggle]

I can see wipeoutarena going ballistic over this if it is true.

Batten down the hatches,it's going to get Flaming bad me thinks between SL and certain racers.

[XBARNSTERX]

I did this on quite a fews tracks (feels guilty) apologies to all. It was alot of fun to do and i personally wouldnt mind my speed lap records being wiped. BSB has had its day , back to the older truer ways where the faster pilots where on top rather than the fastest fingers.:robot

[Nunalho]

Sorry guys, but what does it mean BSB? :?

[Spece2goin]

the key to cancel lap is in option, you can change it...

you can see it's also associated with "flip, IEM"

maybe flip is for elmiminator, to make that 180
and IEM can be the kind of quake taht destroy mines in detonator...

[Nunalho]

I dont know the meaning of BSB, but i ve maped the function to R3, i use chat on L1.:nod

[leungbok]

Bsb don't works anymore, at phantom speed there's 4 tracks where it was efficient (at venom & fash speed bsb was usefull on few other tracks) : Both anulphas, vineta k & ubermall forward. For ubermall, not sure it can be possible to beat the current records, but who knows. For vineta, Pirahpac's boost br br at the very begining is maybe as fast to allows beating the record but with a totally perfect lap as only him can pull. For Anulpha forward i have maybe a trick which allows to be close of a bsb start. And for anulpha reverse i have a trick which equals the bsb trick but far more difficult (only succeeded once). The records on the other tracks can still be beated.

[XBARNSTERX]

BSB, basically boost ,pitch up and press select to get a boost back, then use that boost over the start line for extra distance as well as a extra BR for speed. A bit naughty really:?

[shapealot]

it means boost select boost. on speed laps to get a good time youd have to boost just before the finish line but with update 1.3 we found that you could boost early press select to invalidate your lap then boost again quick giving you an even faster start or even an insane shortcut where possible.

[djKyoto]

Never tried BSB, so doesn't worry me. Get rid of it's ability for all I care, seems like a exploit anyway.

[leungbok]

I did this on quite a fews tracks (feels guilty) apologies to all. It was alot of fun to do and i personally wouldnt mind my speed lap records being wiped. BSB has had its day , back to the older truer ways where the faster pilots where on top rather than the fastest fingers.:robot
You don't have to feel guilty for that, it's not a glitch, some called that an exploit, maybe it is, but it's (was) fair ! It required skills and was not random.
Don't care about the boards, the top pilots are the same since the release of hd, bsb or not.

[shapealot]

it was i agree but i personaly think it was a skill to be mastered as it was by no means easy to do. oh well it was fun while it lasted

[shapealot]

i agree leungbok. by the way id love to know what your new method of anulpha reverse is sounds insane without BSB

[sny]

Sorry guys, but what does it mean BSB? :?

Backstreet Boys, obviously. :D

On the serious side, I'm happy if they removed the possibility of executing them, barrel rolls are enough of a trouble for most players to master. Let the tactical use of weapons, keen eye for ideal racing lines and skillful barrel rolls decide who's the best, I say. :)

[leungbok]

There's no weapon tactical use on speedlaps !

[sny]

That point was supposed to refer to single races/tournaments... Apologies for not making it clear. ;)

[XBARNSTERX]

Yeah i think i seen leungboks method hes talking of. When bsb fisrt came to light certain pilots werent to happy, so leungbok posted a vid using the pitch down up method to get a br in, which makes bsb look like a piece of cake:) not surprised you only managed this once leungbok.

[leungbok]

Yes i know but bsb was only available on speedlap mode, so it shouldn't annoys the single race/multiplayer pilots. ;)


Yeah i think i seen leungboks method hes talking of. When bsb fisrt came to light certain pilots werent to happy, so leungbok posted a vid using the pitch down up method to get a br in, which makes bsb look like a piece of cake:) not surprised you only managed this once leungbok.

Not exactly, the boost/br at the very start is fast but not as fast as the bsb, and i succeeded several times on it ;) I speak of something else, more difficult to do. ^^

[leungbok]

please delete that post :redface:

[XBARNSTERX]

Well speed lapping does give you a certain edge in racing, you know the best lines to take, br possibilities and some insane boost shortcuts, theres alot of them. Of course none of this is possible when getting missiled and bombed. @ Leungbok, ok i'm listening :)

[shapealot]

me an XBARNSTERX will have to think up some new faster lines. i found a new BR last night which i havnt seen anybody else do yet XBARNSTERX knows which one i mean :)

[Aeroracer]

there is 3 choices that make senceto me

1 wipe the boards
2 bring back the bsb
3 archive old records and have awipeout furyrecord board.

the records are of no use anymore apart from history.no one will be able to beat the times without bsb on certain tracks


i feel for the guys who spent a long time on their records as they are truley skillful, but as the rules have changed the abilty to beat the scores has gone.

[pirahpac]

i found in fisrt the bsb on ubermall phantom sl ( 2 days after patch..)..now speed lap challenge is totally ****ed cuz Sl delete ..but i see again glitch on moa tt phantom , sol sl phantom,moa rev tt and sl phantom,so now studio liverpools plz delete ur stupids leaderboards single races ,tt ,sl ..just a useless online rank is suffisiant for this game now ..it will be nice in 1 year see 1000 players a rank 100 and ..yeah ..nice mario kart now..i stop my stupid quest in tt sl for find the best fast way and deleted all my videos cuz lot of bsb .:turd:turd:turd:turd:turd:turd:turd

[lunar]

Jasmine, I think your third option is the best and fairest. It could preserve the fantastic achievments of the best speed lappers and get rid of all the controversial or glitched results in all game modes at the same time. Fury presents a great opportunity to sort out the many many problems on the tables in one swoop, but I will eat my underpants after a 4 hour online Phantom session with the best pilots in France if it happens. :)

I think the pros and cons of BSB being taken out, with regards to the tables, are clear to us all. People who didn`t like what it did to the style of wipeout gameplay will be glad it`s gone. However any discussion of how the tables can be fixed with regard to times being unbeatable is purely academic I think. I don`t think anything will be done about that or the other issues. We have sites like this and Connavar`s to compare and compete and that`s what we`ll use while the in-game HD tables continue as they are, more or less broken depending on the game mode. As Leungbok said, a lot of records can still be beaten. Who knows what other racing methods will be found. It would be nice to have a proper solution but I can`t see it happening.

[pirahpac]

i let just one video for show a bsb made by a noob cheater who have bad lines but do a wr cuz he bsb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dL_sScBzi8 now nobody can beat this sl...dead :turd:turd:turd:turd:turd

[Jambo]

I am happy enough to have it gone, whilst it is not easy to perform it is still an exploit and the way it was sometimes used was not the intention of it.

[Darkdrium777]

The current method of boost reset is still exploitable, unfortunately.
But I won't say how except to SL if they're interested, because it's apparent they don't want the boost reset to be used in this way.

And pirhapac: that's very fair of them to add or remove stuff, it's their game. You play SL a lot and they prevented you from doing the exploit now, and while it sucks that the fastest time you made probably cannot be reached today, the game still exists and still requires high precision piloting. I agree with you on having to clean the online leaderboards of the glitched times (Probably annoys me more than you as I play single race a lot, I also have 90% of my SR records glitched), but deleting them as features from the game... That's a bit too much. What I keep suggesting to SL is that they add the ability for players to delete their own times/scores and resync with the server, so that honest players can relieve a part of the moderation effort needed from SL.
But you are simply over-reacting now, because as a player of single race mode the Rockets are way overpowered compared to the other weapons, and now they seem to come up more often. I'm not throwing a tantrum because of it though. You can still play speed lap, and there is a leaderboard on this website too (And Connavar's like lunar said), where you can actually delete your times. :)
So for now screw the WipEout HD leaderboards until they're fixed, use the boards here or on Connavar's website.

EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood the way the boost reset worked. It is not exploitable, disregard my first paragraph.

[RedScar]

I'm for wiping the record boards, there are a lot of glitched times in all modes including Zone on AP. Anyone who was good enough to do it before is good enough to do it again, and its not like you aren't going to try cause we are all WO freaks.

[Darkdrium777]

Hah, true enough. It would suck a little if it came to that, but it wouldn't be the first time a "major reset" was made in a game by the development team. I can't think of any precise example, though I think WoW had it at some point, and some online FPS games too.

[Jambo]

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue did it as well, actually did it twice each time it was patched as changes to the physics and tyre settings made the old times irrelevant.

[pirahpac]

no problem with a clean leaderboard..but if SL delete all..they MUST repair this glitch on sol moa and moa rev,sebenco and maybe others

[Nunalho]

Ahh, you cheeky bastards :clap

[SaturnReturn]

Anyone who was good enough to do it before is good enough to do it again, and its not like you aren't going to try cause we are all WO freaks.

Some people put a lot of time in and might not want to do it all over again. Neither should they have to just because a feature wasn't thought out well enough. I'm still trying to improve my times but it's a long process. I'm not so bothered in some ways, as I prefer TT, but it would be horrible to have to do all my SL again, even if some aren't all that great.

Isn't it fairly common knowledge now where the BSB can be used? The guys that use it are very open about it. I really don't think it would take too much effort for the BSB times alone to be removed. But I think leaving them as is, while a bit of a stuff up, is still a better option, given how limited its use was anyway.

And pirhapac: that's very fair of them to add or remove stuff, it's their game.

Back in the day, if you purchased something, it was yours. It's good to fix problems, but so far each one that is fixed comes with more issues. All the changes to features and stuff seems too much to me. I don't like that the product I have one year after purchasing can be so different than when I first purchased it. Some of the stuff is cool, but with all the problems that have come at the same time, it's just not worth it. If it ain't broke...

[Darkdrium777]

Right, with that mentality: Fury shouldn't release tomorrow since it will bring double the number of problems because it doubles the content of the game.
Well excuse me but I disagree.

And yes, if they find out that a feature they added can be exploited, they have the right to change it! Or what: let all the bots in Killzone 2 be like they were when they were first released, so people could stat pad and own all the trophies. Leave the invisible tank shooting through walls in Warhawk. Leave the Easter Egg access in Resistance Fall of Man so that people can go under the map and shoot through walls. Leave the aimbot hacks in CounterStrike so people can use them to kill everyone instantly. Do not fix the Unreal Tournament 3 online mode with Patch 2.0...

Seriously... Think about it for a second.

[SaturnReturn]

Erm, whilst I didn't time myself or anything, I can assure you I did think about it for well over a second.

Firstly, Fury is an expansion pack. It's something extra I can purchase, not a product I already paid for. If I don't download Fury, I can play HD without issue, and I won't see any problems with Fury (if there are any) because I won't have it.

Secondly, I'm not saying that problems shouldn't be fixed. I'm saying that they should concentrate on fixing problems first, then implement improvements that are really needed. Each time there has been an attempt to fix anything there have also been changes which aren't really necessary. They have potential to improve the game but so far have usually brought problems with them. Particularly in this case. OK, so they've taken BSB out of the game. So now what about the scores? If a complete solution had been implemented, then we wouldn't need this thread to talk about how to completely solve the issues. I'm saying they should concentrate on fixing problems first. When they do, they should come as complete solutions, and not bring more problems with them.

If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. If it is broken, fix it.

[AnErare]

It's something extra I can purchase, not a product I already paid for.

Be honest, that is unsound reasoning. Without the base game you have no use for it. They have also changed it to accommodate Fury to a fair extend.

[SaturnReturn]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean AnE. I'm fairly sure I don't have to buy it. Just because I have a TV doesn't mean I need a DVD player. That was my point.

HD may well have been changed to implement Fury. If it has then I don't think that changes what I said. Or do you mean they only made certain fixes because Fury was coming? If that's the case then it doesn't make the changes any more right. The existing product should be supported. In fact, I think it would just add to my point. They would have made changes which negatively impacted the existing product, to accommodate something which I may not even want to buy.

Once again, my main point is that they should concentrate on fixing problems first. A lot of the things that came with updates are subjective, but if something is purely fixed, then that's it - fixed.

[XBARNSTERX]

me an XBARNSTERX will have to think up some new faster lines. i found a new BR last night which i havnt seen anybody else do yet XBARNSTERX knows which one i mean :)

Ah yes great find shapes, i've been putting it into practise and i even managed it online. Loving online brs at the moment:)

[Darkdrium777]

If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it. If it is broken, fix it.Except in the case of the BSB, it was broken and they fixed it. Now yeah sure people are saying that the times achieved with BSB cannot be reached anymore, but it's the truth. This only happened because SL was not vocal enough about it ending up tweaked in the next update soon enough so that people didn't have the time to use it so much.
But it was broken.

In the case of the Rockets, Leech Beam and Mines however, that wasn't broken and there I would agree with you that there wasn't any need for the changes made to them in 1.30/1.40 (Can't remember which one it was.) But we are not talking about that.

Now in the case of the BSB, if you're arguing that the solution isn't complete because the times are still up on the boards, well Paul said they would look into board moderation after Fury was released (Hopefully without hitches.) Surely they're taking into consideration every approach possible to clean the boards (And hopefully my suggestion of a way to delete your own times from the boards ;).)

[andybob35]

Not being the biggest fan of speed lap its no biggie. But it is annoying that you have to wait a full lap to try again plus it was useful for trying new br's.

As for the records, its just like any other game... you do see some ridiculas records that can only come from exploiting the game. You'll know if it is legit when you see them online using those fast lines. Anyway..

Roll on fury, where new tracks (new to me) bring new challenges and opportunities with no BSB in sight, legit times for now...

[pirahpac]

i cant bsb on tt ...:bomb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjZutgGCWM

[kaori]

Oh my god! In fact you are a real newbie without your BSB !

[Darkdrium777]

But it is annoying that you have to wait a full lap to try again plus it was useful for trying new br's.You do know the boost reset is still in the game, right? By default it's the L1 button, you just have to hold it down for a while when you have no turbo in your item slot.

[bik3rluke]

This is the first time I've heard of the 'exploit' -- I've never used it before and still set some quick times... I've reached top 50 in the world on some tracks, so I'm upset knowing that I could have been possibly top 10 if I had known!

Wipe the boards, it's the only way. These scores will never be beaten, and even if they are, not everyone who deserves that rank will be able to. It's the fair thing to do. Wipe it with Fury. If they managed to score that time, they'll be able to do it again. I've never BSB'd but I'd still like them wiped so I know my scores will be set under the same circumstances as everyone else.

[Rathboneski]

they should just change it so you just press L1 instead of hold it for 3 seconds. This solves all the problems of beating records etc, and I believe myself that if players are hardcore and determined to find ways of setting the fastest lap possible, using b-s-b is a skill in itself and those that can master that and set perfect laps deserve to be in the top sections of the scoreboards. I don't see it as an exploit, it is (or was) the same for everybody and if people kept hammering speedlaps trying to better their ghosts bit by bit, they would probably eventually all figure this out anyway. This is how i figured it out.

Plus I found it great fun on some tracks (like vineta K, the trick shown on the youtube video that pirhapac gave a link to earlier in the thread) to get your timings right for boosting into the air and controlling your ship in the air, therefore barrel rolling after u cross the line and saving more time.

[leungbok]

This is the first time I've heard of the 'exploit' -- I've never used it before and still set some quick times... I've reached top 50 in the world on some tracks, so I'm upset knowing that I could have been possibly top 10 if I had known!

Wipe the boards, it's the only way. These scores will never be beaten, and even if they are, not everyone who deserves that rank will be able to. It's the fair thing to do. Wipe it with Fury. If they managed to score that time, they'll be able to do it again. I've never BSB'd but I'd still like them wiped so I know my scores will be set under the same circumstances as everyone else.

You absolutely sure that you can jump from rank 50 to 10 only in using bsb ?
I'm sorry but i'm not !! But thanks anyway for your post, you illustrate what i think about the bsb haters. It's only a way to excuse the lack of success on tt/sl modes. Pirahpac, Wotan, Connavar, Me, Ak furtif, Elois, kanar, Kingheim, Eric7dm... are top 10 on most tracks (phantom speed) not only on the 4 tracks where it's usefull to use bsb. Pirahpac shares 2 videos here yesterday, vineta k sl = rank one using bsb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dL_sScBzi8&feature=channel & vineta k tt = rank one without bsb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjZutgGCWM , don't you understand what's that means ?
So, let's concentrate on fury now guys, we'll see all the changes on the boards now it's "legit" ! :rolleyes:

[guillaume]

I was wondering how much time you gain with the BSB? It's one BR more, right?
Any chance that in time, without wiping any records, all the present records, including the ones made with the BSB, will be beaten without it?

[leungbok]

The gain can be 15 hundreths to 25 at phantom speed (more on the lower speedclass).

And maybe it can be beaten without on some of the tracks ;) But only by the current top ranked pilots IMHO.

[bik3rluke]

I was wondering how much time you gain with the BSB? It's one BR more, right?
Any chance that in time, without wiping any records, all the present records, including the ones made with the BSB, will be beaten without it?
Yes, it can be beaten, but only by the BEST. That means I won't be able to (at this stage), which means they'll be a lot of people in front of me that I could beat IF I had of known about BSB. It's unfair, and should be wiped.

[leungbok]

Know about that trick don't means to master it, ask to some guys like Saturn etc. Even Pirahpac put several weeks to master the trick on both anulphas. I'll repeat again and again, this trick was HARD to perform, not a random glitch that can gives a huge improvement to an average pilot !

[bik3rluke]

Still, it's an advantage I didn't have. From what I've seen, I reckon I could have done it. I would have at least liked a go at it.

Your point is irrelevant, would the scoreboards be different if it wasn't there in the beginning? Yes. Do the leaders now have a big advantage? Yes. Is it going to be easy to beat those scores? No.

[leungbok]

Since 6 month ago none of the phantom sl records were easy to achieve and it will not change. And bsb was only possible since patch 1.30, remember the older boards, same pilots on top. Some new guys on the top ranking sl like XBARNSTERNX used that trick, but don't mistake, those guys are very skilled and they deserve their ranks, just look at XBARNSTERNX laptimes on chengou reverse with no advantage from bsb, he can use any trick, controversial or not, he's a top pilot that's all !!

[bik3rluke]

I'm sure he is, but he also had a big advantage that now no-one else has. What can't you understand about that?

[leungbok]

THERE'S STILL WAYS OF BEING FASTER ON THESE TRACKS (hugely difficult but possible) :rolleyes:

[bik3rluke]

THERE'S STILL WAYS OF BEING FASTER ON THESE TRACKS (hugely difficult but possible) :rolleyes:
You must be thick. I'm clearly aware of that, BUT there's people out there who WILL NOT be able to beat those times, yet they are able to come close meaning that if they had the 'BSB advantage' than they may well have beaten the time.

What can't you understand about that?

[mic-dk]

If you really are that dedicated to being top SL'er why didn't you spend countless hours trying to find ways to be faster?

Leungbok did and succeded.

I'm sure you would have thought of the same stunt given enough dedication.

Anyhoo, it's gone, which presents a great opportunity for finding new crazy ways to beat the current times.

[leungbok]

Pirahpac, Wotan and i shared several public videos of our records and tricks. I uploaded here the bsb on anulpha forward and reverse the SAME day i beat my times, what can we do more to be fair with everybody ? You had all the secrets at the very begining, if you didn't improve your rank on time, it's definitely not our fault !!!
Yes you're right, i must be thick to have shared all those stuff and being criticized like this. Don't care, it'll not happens anymore !!

[silverfoxy]

Luke - I'm not really sure why you seem so upset with Leungbok. it wasn't his fault that the opportunity for BSB was there, he just used to its maximum advantage. You have been a member here since Jan and BSB has only been a recent thing so I really don't understand why you're getting on your high horse about it now.

I saw the videos after they were released, thought it looked really cool, tried to do it a couple of times, couldn't and went back to playing online, zone and TT.

BSB was only useful (at phantom speed) on a few tracks so there should still be plenty of tracks out there where the WR is achieveable.

PS - Leungbok is clearly not thick as he wouldn't have thought to do it in the 1st place.

[bik3rluke]

I really feel like I'm on another planet right about now. :?

Most of the SL highest ranks would have been done with BSB. That's not been taken away, meaning there's a LOT of entries that had that advantage. Pilots of today no-longer have that advantage, so that means there's LOTS of entries that have a certain amount of time knocked off them. I'm not saying this is wrong or unfair, but if you can no-longer do BSB then the scores need to be wiped. There's a lot of pilots who'd be able to match the same time IF they had known about BSB. Like I said, I've set a few top 50's and if I had known about BSB I'm sure I would have been higher.

I'm not 'upset' with him, I'm not sure why you think that. I just can't understand his viewpoint. He said the records will be broken, and I'm sure he's right, but that's not the point. Say for example someone got a 18.50 on VK using BSB, and someone else got 18.51 not using BSB (as it's now gone), the 18.50 is a better time when really if the 18.51 had used BSB he would have killed the 18.50's time.

[bik3rluke]

Pirahpac, Wotan and i shared several public videos of our records and tricks. I uploaded here the bsb on anulpha forward and reverse the SAME day i beat my times, what can we do more to be fair with everybody ? You had all the secrets at the very begining, if you didn't improve your rank on time, it's definitely not our fault !!!
Yes you're right, i must be thick to have shared all those stuff and being criticized like this. Don't care, it'll not happens anymore !!
Your viewpoint on absolutely everything seems corrupted. I am not blaming you for exploiting the bug. I would have done the same.

What I am saying, is now there's a lot of times on the record board that were set under different circumstances as now. That means it's completely different (and harder) to set those same times. It's like combining leader boards with WipEout Pure FFS. How can you have the same records when they were set differently? How can anyone not agree with what I'm saying?

[XBARNSTERX]

Since 6 month ago none of the phantom sl records were easy to achieve and it will not change. And bsb was only possible since patch 1.30, remember the older boards, same pilots on top. Some new guys on the top ranking sl like XBARNSTERNX used that trick, but don't mistake, those guys are very skilled and they deserve their ranks, just look at XBARNSTERNX laptimes on chengou reverse with no advantage from bsb, he can use any trick, controversial or not, he's a top pilot that's all !!

Cheers for that leungbok :), just to point out my phantom tts are around the teens ranked, 14, 15. Apart from the odd tracks which are around 30. Sure they are not top ten but i used bsb when all had the chance to do so and my top times could have easily been beaten by the top ranked players. I didnt know the function would be taken away to make it damn near impossible to achieve new top spots. I've said it once before 'I would happily have my records wiped'

[kaori]

Don't forget the new Fury ships are boosted, you should get some hundredths on your current record. I wish it will be the case, then everybody restart competition on the same line, and maybe some people will stop crying...

[leungbok]

and maybe some people will stop crying...
I just can't imagine that ! :lol

[Cerium]

Wow... I would have guessed they wouldn't remove it due to all the trouble there is with having a 'broken' version of the game out there, but it seems I was wrong.

In any event, I think a lot of people are overlooking the advantages of having the board cleared. Personally, I think it should happen more along the lines of once a month, but that's just me.

- First and foremost, it gives SL an easy way to remove "glitched" records. Seems a tad unfair to everyone else to be racing against times which could be impossible to beat.

- It removes inactive players from the table. I can see people arguing this as a disadvantage, but look at it from another perspective: If all of us retire from the game and a year from now a new community picks up interest, are they going to care who the best player was a year ago? Probably not. They're going to be interested in who the best player is now. Further, this makes players stick around if they want to stat whore, which means more people to play against and more attention from the developers.

- With the board being cleaned periodically, it gives SL a chance to add features or otherwise change how the board itself works. It's a little harder to do that when you've going to maintain compatibility with a million or so existing records.


I had more, but I got distracted by something shiny. I guess the moral of the story is... umm... good things... happen. Something about spilled milk too. Whatever.

[pirahpac]

what about phantom moa tt wr,sol sl wr, moa rev tt wr and moa rev wr?nobody cry ?all this record are REAL glitch..but i cant see any post about that..funny funny ..all my video closed now ..good luck for all for find new br for fury

[shapealot]

thats goin off the point of this thread pirhapac, anybody could use bsb but nobody can purposely pull off a 2 second lap or get over a thousand zones. i found a new br 2 days ago but i dont wana share my find now for fear of bein called a stupid noob cheater as im taking advantage of the track:beer

[Cerium]

what about phantom moa tt wr,sol sl wr, moa rev tt wr and moa rev wr?nobody cry ?all this record are REAL glitch..but i cant see any post about that..funny funny ..all my video closed now ..good luck for all for find new br for fury

Really now, isn't that a bit childish? If you don't want to help other players anymore, that's fine and all... but stopping because you don't agree with what some people consider unfair? Come on.
What's doubly insulting is that with your post after mine, it seems like it's something I said that triggered your outburst. While I understand that that may not be the case, it's still a tad bothersome that there's a possibility that you find something I said offensive enough to give the middle finger to the entire community.

In any event, I still believe you're overreacting a bit. This entire thread is about the death of the B-S-B trick -- it's only natural that that is the 'glitch' people are referring to. Now, we could go on all day debating whether or not B-S-B was a glitch/exploit/whatever... but does it even matter at this point? With it gone, it's only fair that the records be removed as well. Look at it this way: In your video, if I were to pull every barrel roll off in the exact same places you do and I manage to follow the same line, because of the lack of B-S-B, I can never beat the time you've recorded. Period. It's not even a matter of skill; it's just simply not possible.

Now, on that note... No one is questioning your ability here -- the videos you've posted and the fact you've held top times since god only knows when are a testament to your piloting skills. However, I still feel you are having a knee-jerk reaction to a non-issue here. No one likes dealing with, what they feel are, unfair advantages; be it cheats, bugs, exploits or whatever. Naturally people are going to voice their opinion when they feel they are being screwed out of a fair chance to compete. You shouldn't take it so personally.

Again, what you do with your info and videos is entirely up to you; but don't you think it's a bit harsh to smite an entire community because you're having a difference of opinion with a single member?

[pirahpac]

........

[IH8YOU]

Wow.. It must be the water out there. :|

[Jambo]

No one is doubting anyones ability here.

[Darkdrium777]

I am posting this for pirhapac as he has troubles understanding what's being said in your post Cerium. I'm just interpreting his thoughts that he has communicated to me, so there's a very high chance it might be inaccurate.

pirhapac essentially acted the way he did because he finds it frustrating that they would remove the ability to perform the BSB, therefore freezing the top ten times almost for good until an eventual wipe, but at the same time they leave glitches and bugs inside the game for way longer.

[SaturnReturn]

I really feel like I'm on another planet right about now. :?

Say for example someone got a 18.50 on VK using BSB, and someone else got 18.51 not using BSB (as it's now gone), the 18.50 is a better time when really if the 18.51 had used BSB he would have killed the 18.50's time.

You are writing it off as an easy way to gain time, and it never was. You didn't know about it before, so you can't possibly understand it now. That's why you feel like you're on a different planet - because you are in a 'world' where you don't have first hand knowledge of this experience.

Just because you didn't 'know' about it, doesn't mean you couldn't have done it. The function and therefore the option to do BSB was available to everyone. If the playing field is level, it's not unfair.

Granted, it's unfair now, which is why this topic exists, as one to debate the issues surrounding it's removal from the game and the issues surrounding the record tables, and not to debate whether it's a good or bad thing. We've already done that.

Darkdrium777 - I kind of like the idea to let players remove their own times. But how would it work in practice, and what about all those who are unwilling to do so? I still think the only ones which should be removed are the ones that cannot be beaten without BSB, and I do believe there are some. Given the videos on youtube, and the honesty of the top pilots here and on Arena, it really seems to me that it shouldn't be too difficult to sort out.

As a general point, my experience with it is more limited than some and currently I think either I have no times that used it, or possibly only Ubermall, as I definitely tried it on that one. I used it on Vin K ages ago but then bettered my time with the boost at the start that gives the double BR. Personally, even if I didn't use it on Ubermall, I would volunteer for that time to be wiped if it preserved the rest of the tables. I would much rather do the one track again than have all my other times lost. I suspect it would be the case for most people. They're not just a record of what I've done so far, they're what I use to decide where to go next and where I can improve the most. If the records are wiped, then I don't just have to do a few laps again, I have to start the whole process all over again.

[pirahpac]

thks darkdrium:!