2009-07-06: Abuse it and lose it

[infoxicated]

You will lose the rights to give user reputation if it's apparent that your main use of the reputation system is to make petty comments because you have a grudge against a particular user.

Likewise, you will lose the right to tag posts should it become apparent that you're adding pointless tags to a thread. The system is to aid the findability of content, not for filling with the clutter of cheap gags or snipes.

It is worth noting that the majority of people have nothing to worry about in using the above features of the forum. It's the minority who are spoiling the party, and those people know who they are and should not be surprised in the slightest to find they cannot give reputation or leave tags.

[ACE-FLO]

erm... Guilty for the tag abuse here. but only once... couldn't help it! meh!

[kanar]

Guilty for the tag (not rep) abuse too. Stand firmly corrected, have already erased the not funny "susan boyle FTW", or other useless tags some days ago. Misunderstood their use first, I know their purpose now.

[KIGO1987]

Ive added a lot of tags here, all which are extremely helpful when you actually use the tag search feature. Ive actually been able to find threads that ive been on before, since ive added tags on them before, very useful feature. As of the rep system. Well some people should start sh it by starting to give neg rep for no apparent reason. Ive given out alot positive rep, until an incident not so long ago.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

That's a very fair system.:+:+
So what do I do if somebody's left me a petty comment with a neg-rep, nothing at all to do with the post it was for? Do I PM a mod or something?
I only leave rep, positive or negative if I feel it's appropriate for the post, no matter if I like the member or not.

[infoxicated]

Best to PM me if you think you've received some reputation that's unrelated to the post at hand.

[Velocitar64]

Thank god you weren't talking about my penis.


I like this system, it's much better. I've never much looked at the rep page, I will do it moreso now.

[SonicChaos]

I never added any tags, but I have repped before when a good statement is made or helpful advice given. People who abuse the system like that don't deserve a place on the internet in my opinion.

[AG-wolf]

How does the reputation system even work? I've never seen anything in peoples' posts that says anything about it or how to give positive/negative score. It never really mattered much to me, but I've always been curious.

[KIGO1987]

Well the +rep and the -rep system works likes this;

accidentally offend someone, piss of Rob, or just get into ###'s way. you'll be neg reped, however,

You help a newbie member here, add an additional piece of advice about Wipeout gameplay information like good BR spots and techniques, drop a funny post here and there, you receive a +rep from someone.

[infoxicated]

The forum has an FAQ resource - it's a good way to find out how to use it;

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_user_profile#faq_vb3_reputation

[SonicChaos]

To add and subtract reputation there is a scale icon on the banner atop of that person's post. Click that and there is the window to approve (Positive) or disapprove (negative) and add a comment.

[Aeroracer]

ok when you check your rep and all those comments you get,

green box means good re
red box means bad rep

but what does the grey box mean, i have a few of them.:|

[Task]

If you look here:

The forum has an FAQ resource - it's a good way to find out how to use it;

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_user_profile#faq_vb3_reputation
You'll see this:

Reputation may be positive, negative, or neutral...Neutral reputation is only given when the person giving reputation does not meet the criteria set by the administrator to affect someone else's reputation.

[Aeroracer]

Thx for helpful post Task

[SaturnReturn]

I've read that before, but I as never sure what the criteria were. I was thinking it was a minimum of 50 posts, just by looking at the people I got neutral rep from. Does anyone know if that's correct? Something like a minimum amount of good rep would also make sense.

[SonicChaos]

I think it is a post limit and if they have negative rep. Don't hold it as truth, but that's the way most forums work it.

[KIGO1987]

Ive never sent out neg rep ever, only positive rep out, as the motto of this forum is "Let's be friends!", only on one occasion i sent out neg rep to an idiot who gave it to me first, for a stupid reason. The power to negatively rep someone should only be left to the moderators and the administrator of the forum, since there opinions are generally and most of the times the best. The ability to rep someone should only be positive, with the general member population, and that is it.

Myself i send out pos rep every single day, keeps the good vibe in play, also keeps newbie members welcomed, and the loyal members rewarded.

[SonicChaos]

I can agree on that. I like to +rep at least once a day.

[Aeroracer]

Ive never sent out neg rep ever, only positive rep out, as the motto of this forum is "Let's be friends!", only on one occasion i sent out neg rep to an idiot who gave it to me first, for a stupid reason. The power to negatively rep someone should only be left to the moderators and the administrator of the forum, since there opinions are generally and most of the times the best. The ability to rep someone should only be positive, with the general member population, and that is it.

Myself i send out pos rep every single day, keeps the good vibe in play, also keeps newbie members welcomed, and the loyal members rewarded.

I agree, i would never send bad rep unless it was to someone who injustly gave it to me. I give out positive rep daily to all the people that help me or just write good posts. I would never give neg rep to a post cos i didnt like it as i believe in tolerance and understanding people views are different. live and let be.

[SonicChaos]

Well said.

[infoxicated]

Here's some additional aspects to the user reputation system that I don't want to see abused;

- Using the rep system for private messaging - we already have that feature, use that instead if you want to drop someone a note.

- Rep boosting someone who is suspended from posting because you consider that particular member to be a friend.

- Group circle-jerking because you've had a good race online. The rep system is for a :+ or a :- of what people post on here, not for acknowledging that they gave you a good race online. Send people a PSN message or something - don't over inflate each other's reputation statistics over it.

I'm seeing this kind of thing more and more on the reputation comments and, to be honest, it's making it entirely pointless and if that's the way it's going to be used I'll just turn it off and ease the load on the database.

[leungbok]

:eek Rep's comments aren't private and only seen by the giver and the receiver ?

[infoxicated]

No, I can see the whole stream of rep comments in the admin panel.

How else would I see who was abusing it?

[NightArh]

There is no ability to read member's PMs from AdminCP luckily...

[Lance]

Sometimes it's good when one can't read other people's private comments about oneself! :D I'm not at all sure that I would want to know! :)

[infoxicated]

Yeah, that's really good. Otherwise we'd know what FTA stands for and the usernames of everyone involved in it. And that would be terrible. For those involved, I mean.

[archman]

Rep is useless as much as rank in wipeout, and should be removed.

[GreenPhazon]

...unless I somehow come into possession of a load of good rep

[KGB]

I don't think rep is useless. The older members here have attained it through years of visiting the site and is probably well earned. Not sure if a lot I have been given has been warranted though.

What's FTA?

[infoxicated]

I couldn't possibly comment - why don't you ask ACE-FLO, DISRUPTOR, Slimjim, Jasmin-Jade, or KIGO, prince of profanity himself when he's back from having his posting rights suspended.

I'm sure they'd love to tell the community all about it. :)

[ACE-FLO]

lol, FTA stands for Fortunate Times Ahead!

I write FTA in my posts too... but not in the Pulse online meetings thread - Pulse Online is dead! Nothing fortunate there!

[infoxicated]

No, no, no, ACE-FLO.

I meant tell the community what it really means. Not the cover story.

[ACE-FLO]

The expose starts here...

For me it has always meant "Fortunate Times Ahead!"

Others may have other ideas about the Abbreviation of FTA... I will not post that because I only rep those who I deem rep worthy, of a post that I found I liked, found helpful, funny etc, complimentary...

As far as I know, the reasons for repping I gave are valid. Rob, you say you can see everyones rep right? OK - take a look at mine, publish it for all to see if you think this will help to prove a point...

I'm not saying that this "rep swap" thing doesnt exist - when you rep someone, I recall a message which comes up saying something along the lines of "Thank you for giving reputation to so and so, you may be lucky enough to recieve some rep back in turn" or something... Now, so where does the hair get split?


I give you rep - you give me rep, - that's the gist of it from your message!

I like giving rep - how can I not? I spend enough time on the forums to read through many posts, Yeah, I rep Jasmin quite a bit coz she is the most outrageously funny person her imo... and there are a few peeps whose posts I'd read because they are relevant to whatever we are talking about at the time, or, for instance - repping someone who has posted in the "New Teams" thread - my fave thread right now...

I get rep too... I can't stop that now can I?

Rob, I understand your concern - totally... but to be honest, I aint the man to take the hit mate!!! Sorry!

Anyway, I hope you get to the bottom of this whole FTA shizzles...

Ace

EDIT: I almost repped your post Rob, above mine - because I liked the fact that you can just up and ask me... then I realized that my rep priveleges have been stopped lol - cheers btw! hahahaha you git!!!


KIGO, prince of profanity himself - that was rep worthy btw lol

[Lance]

}thinks about the dark prints{

---------

But seriously >

Rep is useless as much as rank in wipeout, and should be removed.

I tend to agree with archman on this. Originally, the rep system meant something, but seems to have so much that's meaningless mixed in with the meaningful that real value has been destroyed. If it can be fixed in some way, that would be great, but I suspect that any system is open to subversion if enough people are ill-willed enough to use it the wrong way.

[Aeroracer]

The rep system is broken as it's flawed and unfair.

this is why i think rep is rubbish.

Example one.

Say i post something absoloutly amazing that everyone loves i will get repped by all the main members.Sounds cool to me.Then i post something even more amazing and the members love it even more.will i get repped no cos unless there have been many other amazing posts by all the other members and they got repped i cannot get repped again until the members have repped other members first.spread your rep rule.It prevents boosting as much as repping legitimate good posts.

meaning...

i either dont repped..or a dozen or so random members just get repped for anything in order to rep me again..thats a flaw in the rep system.

Example two

I write a post thats spot-on but some one gets offended and neg reps me for it.No member should have the right to punish another member with bad rep, especially when they are wrong.regardless of how good a forum is their will be jerks who will argue and be unreasonable and just have naff judgement, thats why we got mods working here for.
so whats the answer..just water down your posts and dont have an oppinion just in case some jerk takes offence and neg reps you.

If i write something someone disagrees with they should just debate by posts till its concluded, the moderator and admin only to jump in when rules are broken and control is lost.

Repping power as well is unfair.
member who has been here for years who post are of average quality could have enough repping power to out rep an elite player who knows what they are talking about 10 times over.
in my opinion everyones say counts.

other issues with rep

people rep can consits of the following

1 earned rep
2 random rep (given just so the giver can give to the real person they wanted to rep later)
3 favouritsm and friend rep
4 boosting rep

i think i could say nearly every member has rep consisting of the top three and some with all 4

Another thing about rep is human nature in general.people will tend to sit up and act much easier when its negative than positive..people love it

Like newspapers no one want to hear nice things they want to read about crap and get round up..
bad news sell better than good news cos everyone is up for moaning .praise is harder to give.

neg repping always cause's bad feeling resulting in...

1 bad feeling towards the person who negged you
2 getting revenge back on them by looking for legitimate opportunity to neg rep back
3 maybe just not bother with the forum and leave.
4 arguments in the forum
5 ganging up if the victim has supporters.i have seen this a few times now.

there propbally more things to post about how much i think the rep system suks but this post is more than long enough.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

Everybody's forgetting one thing - rep isn't important at all. Can you trade it in for cash or food? Does it make you play Wipeout better? Does it even make any difference to anything other than those green squares next to your name on WZ?:lol
I'd rather it wasn't there at all. It'd be one less thing to argue about.;)

[ACE-FLO]

I wanted to rep your post Alex lol :redface:

[Aeroracer]

Everybody's forgetting one thing - rep isn't important at all. Can you trade it in for cash or food? Does it make you play Wipeout better? Does it even make any difference to anything other than those green squares next to your name on WZ?:lol
I'd rather it wasn't there at all. It'd be one less thing to argue about.;)


sorry dont get your comparrison

there are many things you cannot trade for food or money which wont make you good at wipeout yet still hold value here are a few of them

principle's
fairness
goodwill

my argument is more to do with a system that has major flaws rather than its value.

[ACE-FLO]

Oooh, Jasmin - if you was a politician, you'd have my vote...lol :dizzy

[Aeroracer]

yes please vote for me..so i can have my moat drained and i can put it on expences like the labour mp's do.:)

[Darkdrium777]

What's FTA?When you write FTW, it can be for two things:
1. For The Win, when something is good/fun/etc.
2. censored The World, when something bad happens.

There is only one A. on this forum.

That's of course only my guess. I've never used it as the A. can probably verify. :)

[Aeroracer]

sorry i dont understand ..there only one A on the site...whats that mean:dizzy

[Darkdrium777]

This. (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showgroups.php)

[ACE-FLO]

DD777, Sounds a bit like you are stirring schitt. I have already made it clear what FTA means...

btw, there's a 3rd abbrev. to FTW - Fukkin' Time Waster, it's terminology used in the retail environment!

[KIGO1987]

I created the FTA;

Stands for;

Free Trade Agreement,

A batar system where people trade game knowledge, secrets, saved data, and other useful tips in a range on playstation games.

Atm it is clearly turn into a utter mess.

Ive successfully been using the FTA since high school, very useful when people band together to achieve a common goal.

[ACE-FLO]

Wait! What? Free Trade Agreement?

Nah mate lol. I thought it was Fortunate Times Ahead - wtf, I like em both... dilemma! lol!

So Kigo! You're back now? Awesome buddy!

[Aeroracer]

I thought it stood for..... free the aligators

kinda like a wildlife thing.:dizzy

[KIGO1987]

I cant seem to find the justice scales of reputation subtraction and addition under the threads, just noticed it then. Has Robert Foxx turned them off for good?

Best to turn all reputation addition and deduction off as it creates more of a nasty atmosphere to the forum.

[Aeroracer]

yes ..negativity breeds negativity.:dizzy:dizzy

[infoxicated]

Nope.

But those involved in the FTA no longer have the ability to give reputation.

Bummer, eh?

Still, the whole system is probably going to be ditched.

I don't have the time or patience to deal with it or the people who have been abusing it - and certainly not when I get anonymous cowards sending me messages on the PSN. :rolleyes:

[KIGO1987]

ive never abused the rep system myself thats bullshit that i cannot distribute reputation of any kind. Ive dont know what has been told to you about the FTA Rob. But its used to help each other out in Wipeout Pulse and HD. like in giving each other ghosts and advice.

[Rapier Racer]

So what does it stand for won't someone come out and say it? As they say curiosity killed the ginger, I was puzzled until I saw the link to that Mod/Admin page, now the words **** the admin have came to mind, do I win a cookie?

[KIGO1987]

Ive stated it here;
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6775

[NightArh]

set up time delay between giving rep points or harder limits and problem with "abusing" will be solved if you considering some members are worth than others. I use these boards according to your rules or not? eh Robert?

[archman]

So what does it stand for won't someone come out and say it?

ROFL :lol :g :lol

Mind actually checking the thread? :D

Is it "Fortunate Times Ahead"? Hmm...

[Aeroracer]

@nightarh

that only make the system more flawed.best way to fix it is turn it off period.any system which gives one member power to punish another equal member is a pile of useless rubbish.
only mods should have power to mod not members.
I dought there are many members who would enjoy being negged or would 100% agree that all neg they recieved was just.


thanks system is better in my oppinion cos its only positive and its on the post for all to see.so any abuse is their for all to see, and its equal.

[KIGO1987]

This rep bullshit here. Reminds me of a game of Monopoly. Where the person who is behind and is loosing, changes the rules.

[KIGO1987]

You know what,

**** it,

MrSmadSmartAlex is right,

You cant exchange rep for gift vouchers and food.

Rep is a load of ****, unless you are an underground drug lord or something.

[infoxicated]

The bit I don't understand is that when I posted that people shouldn't abuse the rep system, NightArh - one of the FTA gang - gave me positive rep for that post. I mean, that's either deeply ironic or deliberately trying to throw a curve ball.

Admittedly, you weren't allowed to post for the time it was going on, Kigo, but the thing that made it obvious that you were implicated in some way was that the FTA crew... posse-homies-squad-clan-gang-whatever you guys refer to yourself as... were digging up posts you'd made maybe six weeks ago and adding rep points with "FTA" tagged on the end.

That made it pretty obvious something weird was going on and people weren't being subtle about it. Every morning when I sign in to check new accounts and activate them I'd check the rep system and it was all "Rep for today! FTA!" and "Here's your FTA rep!"

I kept thinking "WTFTA?!" ;)

It's only in the last week I changed the number of users you had to give rep to before you could give rep to the same person again, but that just slowed it down a bit. If it had gone unchecked then those in the FTA syndicate (I just thought of that one) would have repped themselves to ridiculously inflated levels in the space of a few months.

Jasmin-Jade-Power - or the JJP index, as I like to call it, was making things worse/better depending on your point of view. Jasmin, bursting with energy, female and on a gaming forum gets reputation like Scotland gets rain. The more the JJP index climbed over the months, the more her reputation sway on other people would be magnified.

By xmas you'd probably need a 1800x1600 capable monitor just to view the forum with all the green squares she would have beside her name. So I tried to combat this by, somewhat harshly, giving her negative rep when I disagreed with her on things or I thought she'd said something a bit flippant and dismissive. I tried to explain to Jasmin why I was giving her negative rep - I wasn't singling her out, I was just trying to delay the looming reputation system catastrophe which she, unwittingly, was contributing to by being popular.

What I didn't want to do was just switch the rep system off without trying to make it work, because I've had no end of feedback over the summer months to the effect of "WipEoutZone is no fun", "infoxicated doesn't allow anything", "infoxicated will just say no", "YOU'RE A ****"... actually, that last one is just an example of the harrasment I've been getting over the PSN - people don't seem to believe that Jasmin can fight her own battles and want to come to her defense... which is sweet. :)

Anyhow, that's why I didn't want to just turn it off - I didn't want people being all "he's stopping us from having fun" or "****" (again, on the PSN).

So there you go... I'm all out. It's obvious the rep system has ended up a bit of a mess, so I think what we'll do is put all the people in the "Disreputable" group (yes, it's called that) back in the registered users group and have a grand switching off ceremony. Except for the last bit.

[Lance]

?So it's like? > Female cabaret dancer joins almost entirely male forum; then those who wish to get into her ... good graces find her especially witty and charming and want to let her know this? ;)

[archman]

joke: I don't want to get into her, I might find a stick there, actually. ;)

[Aeroracer]

@lance.

no no no

I get as much grief as all other members or more.
rob even said he was harsh with me and gave me no special treatment.
when i online i get it hard and have to fight to do well in my races.

I have people disagree with me.upset me or make me happy.

I post a lot so i get more attention than a member who posts little.

Did you give me special treatment lance..no you treat me probally same as the others.

Caberet means zero on a forum where the fastest time is what its all about.

You are right about females..there are not enough here.Only maybe 6 or 7 active members. :dizzy:dizzy

[lunar]

I think it`s the right thing to turn it off, Rob. We can just let our words to the talking like we did before. Maybe we could turn smileys off too, just to see what happens then ;)

When rep was first added I hated the idea because I always thought a post should be judged on its merit to you as the reader, and that a rep system which could sway people`s perception of the poster rather than the post would be unfair. At that time I did always try to rep boost people who I thought were unfairly in the "grey areas". Then I got used to it and thought it was okay for a while and a bit of fun, but now it has become a burden and the whole system has become too loaded with meaning and significance it shouldn`t have to work properly now. It has become an end in itself rather than a reflection of the forum character so it deserves to die I think.

[Aeroracer]

@archman...whats that supposed to mean.

[NightArh]

little things in life that all ... everyone has right point of view in this topic

[Lance]

'Jasmin', I believe that I am a cynic, and justifiably so.

[KIGO1987]

Rep has gone,

End of an Era,

Bout time too,

Too many people tangent off from what this forum actually is,

Wipeout.

[KGB]

Noooo! That was my only means of validating myself :)

[lunar]

lol, me too, can I have a hug?

[KGB]

Yeah, a big one. Got a hanky lunar?

[KIGO1987]

Noooo! That was my only means of validating myself :)

Could always opt for purple font, as Task does or Nadia.

[Lance]

Rep has gone,

End of an Era,

Bout time too,

Too many people tangent off from what this forum actually is,

Wipeout.

Wait a second; let me copy that down. :g

Okay, got it. Carry on. :)

[KGB]

I post in black because black is how I feel on the inside ;)

[Lance]

Light doesn't penetrate the body [including the brain] very far unless it is very very strong. :g

And even then, the outcome is doubtful. :D

I am perfectly okay with not getting rep for those comments. ;)

[Aeroracer]

'Jasmin', I believe that I am a cynic, and justifiably so.

why's that lance..cynical of me in particular or just in general..:dizzy
you said you were a feri shouldnt that make you optimistic.:dizzy


kiss's and hugs to all members who said here they need inflated ego's:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy..

[Lance]

I did not say that I follow Feri, and if even I did, that would still not mean that I couldn't be cynical about people's motives, conscious or unconscious. And I am, about all people, including me! But that is a topic for another thread. Or another forum.

[SaturnReturn]

Is there no way we can let people know that we think something is a good point without having some reputation points system? It seems a waste to add a whole one line post to a thread literally just to say, "good point". There are profiles posts available but you might not want other people to see it. So there are private messages, but they can quickly clog up your inbox if used for that sort of thing. So I think some way of letting people know (behind the scenes) that their post was appreciated without a silly points system would be good.

I guess that could still be abused with things like this whole FTA thing, which, by the way, on the assumption that it really does mean free trade agreement and really does relate to sharing information freely, is possibly the most ironic thing I've heard, seeing as those using it don't even seem to have shared the meaning of this TLA with each other, if their comments in this thread are to be believed.

[Lance]

lol

mad rep to sat :D

;)

[billychanxtr33m]

guess im no longer on a distinguished road :(

[Aeroracer]

we are all on a distinguished road..my leads to gallerie lafayette and topshop :)

where yours lead..

[ACE-FLO]

... to fortunate times, ahead! lol

[Darkdrium777]

DD777, Sounds a bit like you are stirring schitt:lol Yeah, I suppose you've never done that yourself? :lol Nice try, you ain't fooling me. xD

Anyways, what a great contribution from those users forcing the removal of that feature from the forum. :+ Nicely done people.

[kaori]

... If it can be fixed in some way, that would be great, but I suspect that any system is open to subversion if enough people are ill-willed enough to use it the wrong way.

It is possible I believe, I remember received some grey squares by people like Wotan (who isn't a bad guy). Grey squares give 0 point. Why not let the possibility to "abusers" give only grey squares during some times ?

[KIGO1987]

Is there no way we can let people know that we think something is a good point without having some reputation points system? It seems a waste to add a whole one line post to a thread literally just to say, "good point". There are profiles posts available but you might not want other people to see it. So there are private messages, but they can quickly clog up your inbox if used for that sort of thing. So I think some way of letting people know (behind the scenes) that their post was appreciated without a silly points system would be good.

I guess that could still be abused with things like this whole FTA thing, which, by the way, on the assumption that it really does mean free trade agreement and really does relate to sharing information freely, is possibly the most ironic thing I've heard, seeing as those using it don't even seem to have shared the meaning of this TLA with each other, if their comments in this thread are to be believed.

You sound a bit cut there SR. FTA has been working quite well in real life, and in Wipeout too, but there is always a chance that people abuse it. and some people just epically fuk it up. Which happened. Im just going to keep the FTA with my uni mates now, for assignments and projects. Wipeout FTA, has pretty much come to an end.

[BulletWraith]

guess im no longer on a distinguished road :(

Roads.....? Where we're going we don't need roads!

[KIGO1987]

Surely Auckland must have roads.

[ACE-FLO]

:lol Yeah, I suppose you've never done that yourself? :lol Nice try, you ain't fooling me.


Fooling you holds no personal gain for me DD777... lol.

re: FTA Fortunate Times Ahead... i've been writing FTA in posts, VMs and PMs - no one even blinked, or anything... Now if you happen to read through those posts you'll see the context it was written in. Always in the same context. I'm not into throwing 'curve balls' - you'll find it all there - in print!


Wipeout FTA, has pretty much come to an end.

Not necessarily, assuming that FTA is the Free Trade Agreement - where Wipers help eachother out with racing tips and other things like, for example, getting advice on how to record an in-game video - can be considered FTA can it not?

And assuming FTA means "Fortunate Times Ahead!", well - if it weren't for this community - I woulda probably still been a crappy flash-speed super cocky pilot... Fortunately I'm not!

[archman]

Why would anyone need an "organization" to get tips or help with lines or whatever? LOL!
"Fortunate Times Ahead" XD
:D

[rdmx]

Surely Auckland must have roads.
Hehe, I think you missed the reference to Back to the Future :P

[OBH]

Cant believe i missed all this.

Amazing how some of you guys can get so worked up over something so meager. Beggers belief at times.

[KIGO1987]

Yeah i could tell it was a BTTF reference. I was being a shitstirrer then.

[ACE-FLO]

lol, Where have you been OBH?

[OBH]

Not here having a nosebleed about the rep system thats for sure :)

[KIGO1987]

You English Soccer fans did a rampage, and destroy a small town or something OBH?

[ACE-FLO]

Kigo - lol, leave football out of it! lol!

We do actually love this sport enough to get a lil bit violent over it, true. But that's more the exception, rather than the rule... Unless Milwall and West Ham are playing. lol.

Liverpool FC can do with a some FTA, the fortunate variety ... (cringes into corner)

[infoxicated]

After having some time to think about it, I've come to the decision that from this day forward, no content contributions will be accepted from anyone involved in the FTA debacle. (i.e. avatars, articles, etc.)

This thread is now closed.