v1.30 update complaints

[AG-wolf]

I haven't played enough with the new update to get really in-depth just yet, but right off the bat I'm annoyed:

1) The update resets your custom controller configuration

2) The "Select" button is not configurable when you customize your controls

That second one is surprisingly a PAIN IN THE *SS! I use Triangle as my rear view, and I had to set L2 as view change; I've already f*cked myself over in four races by accidentally switching my view. I used to have it applied to the Select button so I would never hit it unintentionally.

I'm just voicing frustration... maybe other people can chime-in with specific complaints and maybe some bright lad at Studio Liverpool will come across the thread and FIX THIS CRAP.

Also;

3) the myriad of icons for each race in the lobby is really difficult to understand at a quick glance... maybe it'll take time to get accustomed to?

4) When browsing races in the online lobby, the game only tells you "RACE IN PROGRESS" when you highlight it in the list... you have to physically highlight each individual option to see whether it has started yet or not, it should have an icon or be listed in another color or SOMETHING, so you're not scrolling through each one obliviously hopeful that a room may be open.

[IH8YOU]

Mines seem to live a lot longer now. (I'm lapping old mines a LOT now - it was rare before)

Mines seem to have grown in size - but it could be my brain.

The GAME I

S FRE

EZING A_LLLOT during gameplay! RAWR! :bomb

Barrel Roll success rate seems to drop substantially when near other ships or a pack -

Longer races (extended laps) fall under the same leader boards as the standard 3, 4 or 5 lap races.

Longer races have the same 30 second time-out after 1st place crosses the finish. Kinda felt bad for the chap who was 45 seconds behind me... Like he went all that way for nothing. :/

For what it's worth - whomever you were - thank you for sticking through it!

[blackwiggle]

The race view suddenly changing mid race,I just had that happen to me twice.

From Cockpit view to Far,I didn't stand a chance once that happened.:frown:

Can we have a LOCK PREFERRED SETTINGS PLEASE.

[IH8YOU]

I too had the view change on me! But I chalked it up to my thumb getting a little over-zealous - but it never happened to be prior to this update - so now I'm suspicious...

[MR-RICO84]

I would have to agree with IH8YOU on the leader board times for races longer than 3,4 or 5 laps! It seems like a huge over site that if you have a great race at longer distance you get stuck at the bottom of the 5 lap pile. Mines deffo last longer which is kinda cool if you are trying to eliminate from the front (good thing/bad thing depending on your perspective at the time) Over all I am pretty chuffed with it all and it does seem to have filled out the lobby's with loads of people vying for a race, normally at nearly 6 am BST there would be a 10-15 minute wait for more than 2 people in a race! I wonder how long it lasts?

[ProblemSolver]

Changes to the ZONE mode : v1.30 (http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6078)

[Lion]

ok so if mines last longer that explains one of my complaints...
as a racer sho is often nearer the back of the pack this change has taken a fair chunk of the fun out of the game.
If I am knocked back to last place, I previously had 3 or four peoples mines and bombs to contend with, now I have 7
it sucks
I was actually under the impression that the weapon balance had been adjusted in favour of the blue weapons. either of the above eventualities suck for me

to people hosting: longer does not always mean better!
20 lap races get boring on most tracks, and for anyone other than those in the first three places it's complete **** if weapons are on.
The only extra-long races I have enjoyed so far are with weapons off.
also, if you are hosting: please decide on a number of laps and stick with it.
Frustrating joining a lobby and waiting for a race to finish, then when the host changes track they also increase from 5 to 10 laps. The default number of laps is a good number!

I haven't encountered the view issue, and my controls were untouched.. but I am getting the irregular stuttering now

edit: not a complaint, but a question: What does the weapon hint thing do? it still shows your weapon icon (I thought it would turn this off) it still tells you that someone has fired something at you or warns of impending blue weapons... so what is the "hint" that it hides?

[rdmx]

I think it's the notification that tells you what weapon they are currently holding - it is next to the player name.

[Sch@dows]

3) the myriad of icons for each race in the lobby is really difficult to understand at a quick glance... maybe it'll take time to get accustomed to?

4) When browsing races in the online lobby, the game only tells you "RACE IN PROGRESS" when you highlight it in the list... you have to physically highlight each individual option to see whether it has started yet or not, it should have an icon or be listed in another color or SOMETHING, so you're not scrolling through each one obliviously hopeful that a room may be open.
I totally agree with these 2.
It's a pain in the a** to see which tracks are selected in a tournament.
And having to highlight every tournament to check if it is running ... arg!
Why not include a filter to that too u_u

[Luxoflux]

here's another one. phantom single race records are f_cked. just check ubermall for example.

[silverfoxy]

There certainly is a lot of information to take in before each race.

They do need to fix the "race in progress". A bit of a pain having to cycle through every race to see which isn't already going.

I am quite liking the badges and the podium. Got a photo finisher one earlier after winning a race by 1/100 of a second. GET IN !!! ;)

[Hellfire_WZ]

My comments -

The positives:

1 - Thank you for giving us the opportunity to disallow PA users on our races. never again will we have to put up with trying to lap a PA user only to get slammed into a wall and end up losing a race

2 - Thank you for FINALLY fixing the bomb glitch, don't have to soil my pants anymore wondering which way to go to avoid one.

3 - Like the idea of the badges, gives you and other an indicator of how you handled a race

4 - I do like the fact you can see races that are in progress. Aside from makign the lobby look more busy, it allows you to easily target a game you want to join without having to wait around in wonder as to whether one will appear

5 - Great idea allowing you to instantly join a friend's race, don't have to keep wondering where they all are now

The negatives:

1 - Why has the handling been made lighter? I've only just gotten used to using the Goteki and now I'm having to learn all over again!

2 - Why have rockets been made into some kind of superweapon? Honestly, the mines were bad enough but rockets are now able to end a race with the amount of time it takes to recover.

3 - The constant jumping during games is ridiculous, I'm not the only one here who has lost races because of the game jumping in a key spot.

4 - I'm also not the only one who has lost a race because a routine barrel roll has decided not to work. I can only assume this is a lag issue. From now on all races I host will have barrel rolls turned off until this issue is dealt with.

5 - Talking of lag, I've noticed a marked increase in lag in games. I'm encountering more and more games where weapon pads take at least a second to give you a weapon, and in some cases not working at all

6 - As has already been said, it's all well and good being able to see games in progress, but why should we have to highlight them in order to see if it is in progress or not. It's really inconvenient and should be indicated straight away

[Greenix]

Ok, so the clock roles on for at least an hour after the specified release time and the update appears late. Ok, i can deal with that, patience is a virtue.
Downloading and installing it took about a minute tops. Just as it flicks onto the loading screen is when it all goes to :turd. Freeze. I turn the ps3 on, off, on, off - constantly trying to deny the fact I know the update has corrupted my save data. Wonderful. After kissing my data goodbye I restart the game.

Oh goody, its working now.

I get online and decide to spectate a race. Spectate is urm, bearable. The ships jump about, doesn't turn properly and lags into walls. Anyone planning to observe a top player's lines would be better off being in the actual race.
Ok, maybe I'm being harsh.. I'm just expecting too much perhaps.

So the race finishes and now i'm in the lobby selecting my ship. Where's my 3rd AG-Sys skin.. oh yeah, silly me, forgot I don't have it anymore.

Now for the race itself. Action. Cue huge glitches. Every now and then the screen would glitch and I'd find people suddenly infront of me which is impossile because
1.) I never let go of x button and
2.) Thanks to the weapon hinter I knew nobody behind me had turbo at that time. . Is this glitching down to someone spectating and switching to you? Well whatever it is, it's annoying.

The controls feel less responsive and Barrel Rolls feel like pushing a door with pull written on it. I NEVER fail to do a barrel roll on the chenghou drop, so why does it now fail to do so for a majority of laps. (BR was enabled).

The badges were, to my suprise, glitch free and overall a nice addition. Seeing some top players awarded badges such as relying on autopilot brought a smile to my disappointed face.

The ranking system.. Hmm, feels like SL discovered they were losing players so put this in as a way to get old people playing again. Well im lazy and pissed off because I have, had rather, 250 hours of racing time. I don't want to have to do hordes of racing again just to get a rank I would have had 10 times over by now. But that's more my own problem then a problem with the update.

As Luxoflux has said, there are some ridiculous times on the leaderboard now. One chap managed to do AP Rev in 15 seconds, wow.

Harimau also feels incredily heavier then before. Icarus is easier to steer around sebenco then harimau and AG-S feels lighter then feisar.

However, some of the other options worked well and id love to see a race on Sebenco Climb with 20 laps, where everyone is in a triakis with no weapons and PA disabled. May the best tank driver win. Other additions such as showing what race is next whilst the game is loading or the tournament standing on the loading screen is a nice finishing touch to what could have been a very good update.

Fortunately, since I wrote this yesterday and had to save it because my internet refused to post it, I have my old save data back. But really SL, get your act together. :naughty

[leungbok]

@Hellfire. Looking forward to your next videos comments, mate ! :lol
Seriously, i agree with you and Greenix, good ideas (and bad ones : br on/off ;), persistent mines, uberpowered rockets = ok, the game is more accessible now, not sure however that new casual gamers will stay for real now :|), but poor achievement, please SL, fix it for the fans that always followed your creations and will always do !

[Mu5]

Great post Greenix :)

I am really disappointed with the update. How it got of of QA I will never know (it did go to QA, right?) :D From here it looked like it went no where near.

Basically I feel that it has broken this great game. It feels different, acts different and now I really dont want to play it. Seeing the screen JERK / FREEZE like that in online races is making me sick. The spectator mode is a total joke. Totally useless.

A number of things have highlighted that this was thrown out the door not tested - the fact that you cant even play it after downloading is the biggest :D.

Is there anyway to revert back to the old game? :D

[darkfaerytales]

[QUOTE=Greenix;12060

Harimau also feels incredily heavier then before. Icarus is easier to steer around sebenco then harimau and AG-S feels lighter then feisar.

[/QUOTE]

so...i'm not the only one...i've just finished a more deep session of trying of about one hour of OFF-LINE game, i've spot the exact same things as you

feisar feels suspiciously and unnaturaly heavier than before, harimau was the first ship i've used yesterday and i feel there was something strange...seems that there aren't anymore the small different edge from feisar harimau and assegai
also...triakis seems speedier and lighter

need to do some light in the issues 'cause now the lighter ships seems heavier and heavier seems lighter

[AG-wolf]

Wow, after reading what everyone posted, I want to go back and physically see this stuff for myself :P

I'm especially concerned about the handling tweaks... I couldn't tell if something was changed on Qirex specifically, but it DID feel odd (could be attributed to it being after midnight and drinking).

[SuperNova]

Well i cant really complain about gameplay and online because the GAME WONT START AFTER THE PATCH!:bomb:bomb:bomb

EDIT: Wait a minute, did my Save file get corrupted.........Im afraid to check:cold

[Connavar]

I completely agree with Hellfire_WZ and Greenix, please SL fix those bugs...

Wipeout HD was a fantastic game, with near perfect gameplay and visuals, but
not many online features.

Now we get the contrary: many online features, but the gameplay has suffered
a bit (Barrel Rolls + slowdowns) and the visuals too (slowdowns).

On top of that, the interface is a bit cluttered now (would have been better to
use text lines: weapons: OFF, barrel rolls: ON ... rather than icons), but this
is a very small detail.

Please fix the slowdown and BR and we'lle get the perfect game!!

[darkfaerytales]

as for how the ON-LINE game can be fun as hell, with the lobbies full of people and many many options, the CORE game remains the OFF-LINE

[Lourio]

Here's a few things I noticed ONCE I actually got to load up the game.. I didn't play too much last night but damn..

- Everytime I would start up the game after updating, the game would freeze up after the Studio Loverpool logo screen - the only to actually get in was to sign out of PSN, load up the game and play normally. Am I going to have to do this everytime? Thank the heavens my save file is still intact.

- Lag. So many points during an online race where it the game stops for a split second or two; once back to normal, I come out bouncing off every wall possible before I can get into a straight line. Happened WAY too many times.

- Don't if this has anything to do with the update; but damn there are sooooo many people picking up mines!

I know these have been posted earlier, but hopefully someone at SL sees all the complaints/on-going issues and releases another patch/fix.

:brickwall

[AG-wolf]

On top of that, the interface is a bit cluttered now (would have been better to
use text lines: weapons: OFF, barrel rolls: ON ... rather than icons), but this
is a very small detail.

I think it's a rather big one, since all those variables are key aspects of every online race now. Half the time I spend sitting there trying to decipher what all the damn icons mean, and by the time I understand it, that race has started. The Grey and muted blue color scheme doesn't help one bit.

[Sch@dows]

on top of that, I think the players should have the possibility to disable/enable themselves until they are ready !

I went into the lobby of a tournament to see which tracks were used, and the tournament started before I could see that every tracks were in reverse. I quit the tournament after the second race, and lose 1 rank u_u

[SaturnReturn]

I felt sorry for everyone at first when I saw you'd started this thread, but I'm not going to start ranting again. To summarise:

1. The game just feels/handles differently. Having played for over 300 hours now, that difference amounts to feeling just plain wrong.
2. The overall experience of the game is just frustrating. It wasn't fun for me last night at all.

My biggest annoyance is that this change comes at a time when there are more great competitions for online racing than ever. The World Cup, the Doubles Ladder - I can't even be bothered to play right now, which is a massive shame.

[yeldar2097]

I hate to say it but it makes me feel much better seeing this thread. I know that not playing for 5 days will of course affect my racing, but i wasn't expecting it to be quite the catastrophic shitfest that it was...:bomb
can someone please hack the game so i can downgrade it? pleeeeease??? :(

don't take this the wrong way, but i'm pretty sure i'm good enough to get decent times. since v1.3 i have NOT started at the front in a single race and I haven't posted a time higher than 90th globally. I'm not being conceited or trying to insult anyone but its REALLY ****ING ANNOYING not being able to get good times anymore

people have already mentioned most of what i was going to complain about so i don't really need to say it again, i'm just going to agree with them.

i suppose it's early days yet and their are bound to be a few issues (yes it should have been tested but whatever).
I'll just go with what a (stoned:P) soccermums said: let them iron out the kinks (they'd ****ing well better!!:bomb)

[SaturnReturn]

I'm playing offline right now. One thing I've noticed is that you can't barrel roll at all if you're critical. Has that already been said? Probably, sorry if I missed it.
That's definitely one good thing though. Maybe there are other things I didn't know about too.

Also, offline is definitely better than online was. Barrel rolls in my opinion are still tougher to do but not as bad as online, so maybe the lag is messing it up. There's a good chance that the slow feeling to the game was caused by lag. There's also a chance that I found it uncontrollable because I expected to get boosts from BRs but then didn't so I was steering too early. I think that makes sense. So overall, even though my experience last night was ****, I'm thinking that most issues might be lag related and can be fixed somehow. Although I hope that doesn't mean I have to pay a million bucks a month for an uber fast connection. I don't know enough about this stuff to really know how they can fix it.

Oh, but I still stand by what I've said before - essentially that they should have done less to add pointless features and more to improve the online racing experience while you're in the cockpit.

[eLhabib]

Honestly, I haven't noticed any changes in handling, at least not in my Auricom. (and I know pretty much exactly how it handles - seriously, no change at all)
I think AG-Sys and Icaras have lost a little weight, but not handling-wise, they just get pushed more easily (which is fair, they are supposed to be light ships).

About the BRs - I haven't had any trouble pulling them off so far, at least not more trouble than before the update ;) I think they have to be executed a bit faster than before, but that's fine with me really.

Also, I've just had over 20 races with 8+ laps each, an didn't experience any lag whatsoever - I blame yesterdays inconsistant online gameplay on the high number of players total.

[SaturnReturn]

Hmm, sounds like maybe I should give it another go then, especially now that I'm over my anger. Soon as I finish filling my belly I'll be on. I hope you're right eLhabib.

[komatos]

SaturnReturn: I hope you're definitely right about the no barrel rolls allowed when critical in energy. Been one too many times I've been pissed by the game being hyper sensitive on the controller when I'm at the hill jump on Ubermall or the last high jump on Chenghou and it decided to think I was trying to BR when I was really trying to align my ship for landing properly. Killed me more times than I can count. That alone would make my day. :o

One thing that I do kinda miss (not sure if I do completely though) is the annoying non-stop beeping when you're critical in Zone. It kinda stressed you and made you more likely to die quicker, but at least I knew I was critical. I didn't know I was critical when I played Zone last night until I was almost dead. Would be nice if they can set an option for the low health warning off/on.

[LOUDandPROUD]

Just finished a 2-hour session and have this to say:

It seems with the weapon tweaking they did (higher percentage of getting a weapon you need and weapons doing more damage to their victims & slowing them down more), as well as the seemingly sturdier physics/handling of the ships (that's my feeling anyway...I know some folks don't feel that way) and the more-difficult-to-execute BR's, they've really tried to even the playing field a bit. I find it much harder to gain sizable leads and maintain them. Tough to really separate from packs and then keep them off your back. I'm sure the players out there who are generally less competitive are rejoicing, but guess what? I DON'T LIKE IT. I don't mind having the elite pilots finishing 5-10 seconds ahead of me. In fact, I applaud them. That's their reward for being so damn good...they get to demolish the competition. I just feel like the ways SL has leveled the field are pretty much cheap and/or luck-based. What do you all think about this? Agree? Disagree?

[leungbok]

Wipeout was renowned for its speed ! But now speed will be hard to reach, maybe it was time to convert the game from a racing to a shooter :?

[stinkleroy]

I completely agree L&P. I've just played the game for an hour and had to turn it off as I was so frustrated. My AG systems no longer feels like it used to, it feels slow, sluggish and I need to use more airbrake than usual so my racing line is f*cked essentially.

But the reason I turned the game off tonight was because I played about 10/12 races and I think I managed NOT to get eliminated in 1 of them. The game seems very weapons orientated now and frankly it sucks. I felt a tear well up when I exited the game and was unsure of if I'd be back. I think the new update was a great thing in terms of features, but as for what has changed concerning the physics of the game......:turd

It's made me not want to play anymore :(

[SaturnReturn]

I'm onlines now. I'm finding that if you get a bad start then you just get mined to hell, even more so than before. Also, on chenghou project on the first big jump I could not do a barrel roll at all for the first 4 laps. Then on the 5th lap it worked. I think offline was definitely better. Races seem to have very little flow at all now. If I ever host again, I think it's going to be Avalon stylee all the way.

[leungbok]

to be a little harsh, it's no more "skills against skills" but "luck against luck" !!

[KIGO1987]

Icarus is the fastest ship in the game? Yes?

Then why do a feel im not gaining a closer gap in a 20lap race at Moa Therma while chasing and AG system which has a speed ranking of 7, opposed to the speed ranking of 10 in the Icarus. Ive noticed this with this patch. Has any other users of Icarus have noticed this?

[stinkleroy]

Harsh but true leungbok. I'm not a great pilot, but I am a competant one, and to get eliminated by spates of mines and bombs almost every race is just eating away at my confidence. I haven't posted a single decent time since this update...has anyone?

[Amorbis]

@Kigo: As an Icaras pilot I have noticed a few differences in the performance of the ship. It does feel slower, as though the thrust is no longer as high. Could just be me. Auricom feels just as fast now :(.

I'm not so sure about the weapons thing. I've got a few quakes in first today for no apparent reason. One thing I can say is that it seems weapons no longer, or have less of, a rarity level. This could explain the horrendous amount of mines and bombs on the track.

[leungbok]

@ Stinkleroy. I think wotan has ;) And with this example i remember that : "if it don't kills us, it'll makes us stronger !". So lets look at this new gameplay as a challenge to improve our skills, cat :banzai

[stinkleroy]

I like your positivity leungbok, but the way I'm going I will need an eternal shield to get any better...my racing doesn't seem to matter much anymore ;)

[JABBERJAW]

MInes lasting longer. They were good the way they were. Seriously WTF, the game was already more focused on weapon combat than racing skills.

From the posts when the game came out, Ithink 95% of people were very happy with how it played, so why the game physics/weapons changes. It is not fun to have to dodge the same damn mines the entire game.

I think the main thing I saw was the barrel roll option/tracks/ships were the main thing that people wanted. Spectator mode would be cool, if it didn't slow down the game and make barrel rolls shitty. Please get it out if this is causing that to happen

Alright, no more complaints from me, I'm going to download it and see for myself


I think there should be a list that someone should keep, numbered in a list form for the bugs, maybe with a sticky or something, so the developers can see, so it will be easier for them to locate issues with the game, that should be corrected, rather than seeing a bunch of nuts (myself included) ranting and raving.

[guggle]

After an hour long session this morning (my second after the update), I'd have to agree with most of your observations that there are more mines and bombs now, than there were previously. In last night's session there was one stand out race on Ubermall where there was an extremely high count of eliminations - this was noted by other racers in that game. There was another race on Chengou Project (4 laps) where I was eliminated 3 times, the first of which was just at the beginning of the 2nd lap - I'm not the greatest pilot by any stretch but I can never remember that happening to me before.

Someone else has noted (either in this thread or another) that it is harder to break free from the pack. I'd have to agree with that too - not that it doesn't happen, but this morning I was in several races that were very congested for a long time.

The update has introduced some good features: friend invites, rating system, and ability to see all games just to name a few, but if what we have observed turns out to be an attempt to level the playing field by the developers, lets hope they reverse those particular changes.

[SaturnReturn]

I think they really should look at the feedback people are giving here and take note. So far weapons off races have been far more enjoyable for me. Weapons on races are just a joke now. Stinky-winky's right. You can't challenge yourself when it comes to the mines because they cover the whole track. Unless perhaps you can find a way to sideshift off the track and back onto it again while going in a straight line. That could work.

I also tried harimau. That was a whole new level of strange. It always had a different feel to it but has probably changed the most now out of the ships I tried. Assegai felt the same to me though and I'm fairly well re-accustomed to Icaras now. EG-X was a pile of poop though :( But that could have had more to do with bad luck, perhaps.

[DawnFireDragoon]

Wipeout was renowned for its speed ! But now speed will be hard to reach, maybe it was time to convert the game from a racing to a shooter :?

that already happened a few games back!

all this talk of the dodgy patch is a shame. i've already told my housemate, whose ps3 i play HD on from time to time to not download this update...sounds bad. hope they can sort it out.

[CaptainWipeout]

Got the update and it froze every time I had to load Wipeout. Had to delete all my saved data.

Not really a big deal for me.

Went online and F*** me what a pile of sh**e. WTF are they thinking about????????

There is F all racing skill required now. The ships handle completely differently and as a lifelong fan - I'm shocked. Really really shocked and let down and bloody bloody angry.

I'll not be playing until they sort it, I can't, it's way too annoying.
What a fecking shame.

[SaturnReturn]

I'm glad to see some other people getting emotional about it. There are so many issues with it. It's quite inconceivable what they've done to my favourite game ever, and my favourite thing in the world right now. If it weren't for the chatbox feature I wouldn't have stayed online tonight. People on this site and the social element they bring are the main (only?) reason to play online now.

Change isn't good or bad, it's just different. But an update or patch like this shouldn't just be different, it should be an improvement, an evolution of the game. But it just plain isn't. It's as if they've screwed over the people who've maintained interest in it the longest in order to bring new people to the game. For that reason I still think it's about cold hard cash. Whatever happens Sony and SL are businesses. They have bills to pay. The game needs to attract attention to sell more copies and to make money. Perhaps it's more of a sign of the times and the whole recession thing than it is of trying to improve the game.

I thought I was done with whining and gave it another chance this evening. Whilst I'm calmer about it all now I'm still very upset about it. I can look at it more calmly and objectively but I just don't see myself getting over it without some big changes. I don't think they can completely undo the update. Imagine how embarassing that would be. Possibly the best thing they could do would be to let people choose exactly what weapons they want. That way we could just disable mines and I feel that would be a massive step in the right direction. Then fix whatever the lag issues are that are making barrel rolls fail online. I don't mean hard to pull off. I mean fail. This is what's happening. Then give me the option to disable the spectator function so that I don't have all that glitching/freezing in my games. With all that, things might get back to being fun and I could start forgiving those who stole my first true love away from me.:lol

[djKyoto]

Emotional? Wait, what?

Personally, the game feels almost indentical to how it played before and I therfore have no complaints with the patch (the login issue has been fixed here) other than the odd random lag freezes in-game.

Only thing I noticed was mines where more 'there' and harder to miss.

Seriously, don't know what some of you are on about. I've found weapon races more exciting and hardcore than ever.

L.A.W

[SaturnReturn]

When I got the update I'd heard nothing on it from anyone else. I came to my own conclusions and I came to them fairly quickly. A racing game, even with weapons, should be primarily about the racing, about the speed. There's no momentum at all in weapons games now because the track is littered with mines.

Also, why do people keep quoting this "L.A.W." thing? Let's draw a parellel here. I enjoy playing guitar. It takes practise and it takes skill for me to be able to play songs on my guitars. Now imagine someday someone comes along, knocks on my door, grabs my guitar, smashes it on the ground, hands me a ukelele and says "Here's a new challenge for ya, L.A.W!". To me, that's pretty much equivalent to what the update has done to the game. If I'd wanted to play the ukelele I would have bought one. As Leungbok says:

"Wipeout was renowned for its speed ! But now speed will be hard to reach, maybe it was time to convert the game from a racing to a shooter"

[IH8YOU]

Saturn is right - and I'm willing to bet you that 90% of the top 20 players will agree with Saturn.

The handling IS different, the freezing is rampant, people who couldn't even get close to me, suddenly they're all over me. (which, prior to this patch - was not the case) Barrel roll success rate has dropped by at last a factor of 2 since this patch.

I'm a decent player - but far from the top - yet somehow, I managed to DNF AN ENTIRE ROOM OF PLAYERS. No freeze, no glitch - I lapped the ENTIRE ROOM in a 4 lap race and not one of them finished, 7 people... I still can't understand how that transpired.

Oh yeah, then the 3 races just today, where I literally got plasma, shield, plasma, shield, plasma, shield, plasma, shield (nothing but)....... My friend (who doesn't play this) heard it, and asked if I was using a cheat code.

Triakis now blowing AG Systems, and Goteki 45 off the line every time - and no, it's not lag people.

So yeah, different? You bet. :(

Was the freezing mentioned? Lots of page-tearing now, too.

I was open at first - but not even a day into this I'm going to depart.

There are good aspects - I love that you can see barrell rolls, disable AP, have extended lap races.... but we've traded too much (in terms of stable - consistent gameplay) for them, IMO.

[SaturnReturn]

Well I doubt that they'd all agree with my rampant complaining. So I apologise to everyone for that. But yes, most people I spoke to soon after the update mentioned all the things I've mentioned, and very often without any hints from me. So I think a lot of players or of the opinion that the game has (for them) been negatively impacted. I for one would like some way to minimise this so that I can enjoy the game again.

[RJ O'Connell]

Alright, so if the online racing has just become a matter of luck than skill, tell me, how come I'm still in the same place of having my ass handed to me to players like Wotan, Saturn, Greenix etc., that I was before?

I can hardly read these threads about "how v1.30 is shiat" without wanting to kill a small child out of anger - anger that I only reach in Wipeout-related discussion when people whine about every new game not being an exact copy of Wipeout XL with high-res graphics and online play when it's in development.

I can't stand this attitude coming from supposed elite players who keep complaining that someone at my level can actually win a race against them, when in reality I still can't find myself "lucking my way into winning all the time". If I was actually winning races consistently I'd actually feel some sympathy. But I don't. Because I'm not. AND I'VE BEEN PLAYING THIS SERIES FOR THIRTEEN SODDING YEARS.

It almost reminds me of what's going on in F1 right now, with McLaren and Ferrari and BMW being outclassed by BrawnGP and Toyota in the first two races - so instead of developing their car to keep up, they may actually lead a successful bitch-and-moan at the FIA to nullify their achievements.

So cry, cry all you want about how spectator mode and handling tweaks and especially a good amount of online activity is ruining your experience. I could honestly not give a god damn. Because nothing has changed so far on my end. Am I being selfish, crass, maybe I don't get the point of what everyone's so busy complaining about? Yes, and I could care less.

And no, this update isn't perfect, there are some other things I'd like to have seen with the online experience, but it's not killing the game from where I can see.

(Now that I'm done, go ahead and flame away!)

[KGB]

without a doubt something has changed in the handling. Ag is twitchy as hell now and it does feel and act lighter, if i didn't know better i would of thought it was a feisar. BR's are not more difficult to pull off at all. They are not happening full stop. please no one tell me it is just me. On sebenco i only managed 1 in the whole race.

Lets not go over the top here though. we have been like rampant dogs for a long time for more features, now we have them we are tearing it to bits. They must be banging their heads on the table at SL thinking 'are they never satisfied'. give it a chance. There's lots of good stuff there, it just needs sorting out

[SaturnReturn]

RJ - I can see where you're coming from. Yeldar's always saying how he sucked so badly and yet usually still beats me by about 5 seconds. I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad or anything. I apologise. But Yeldar makes the point that he can't get close to his own times now. I don't think this is a lack of skill on his part.

The thing is, winning or losing aside, the game seems to have lost momentum and speed because of the crazy mines, uber-rockets and glitching. I think many would agree. But these aren't the only issues. Messed up record tables, corrupted save data, poor presentation. There's that phrase: "If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well." Had this been implemented better then I'm sure extra features would have been welcomed by all. But it wasn't, or at least doesn't seem to have been for me. And to those making the point that it happens with other games too, well two wrongs don't make a right.

If some aren't experiencing the same negative gameplay then that's good. But if you read all the posts then I think an aweful lot of players of varied abilities are. Whether you like the patch or not, so much negative feedback, whoever it comes from, however well or bady it is expressed, cannot be a a good thing.

KGB - I was still content with the game. The only things I wanted were minor tweaks. I know you're not referring directly to me or anything. Just sayin'.

[Vartazian]

RJ - I fully agree with you. I dont know if people classify me as "Elite" but I can go toe to toe with some of this forums higher ranked Members, and I still can. (After this patch that is) Yeah lag sucks when I need to stay in front of yeldar get a mini Lag spike and slam into a wall. but the internet isnt perfect. these things happen. I just shrug it off (and maybe the 10 mines I slam into) and just keep chugging away.

I still manage to get within 2 seconds of the leaders most of the time if Ive had an Absolutley Horrid race. I just adapt and go "this is the game now, No point complaining"

Saturn - Yes mines are annoying but its your fault if your going full speed without looking ahead (I do this all the time, Ive changed to slow down at choke points to watch for mine) and you MIGHT have to slow down to get around them (that is unless you want to slam into them) but this is wipeout now.

You can... (Complain is such an ugly word) Express your displeasure with the patch but are you really going to roll over and admit defeat and give up your favorite game over a few sets of mines?

I feel your pain, But dont let your Love for wipeout fade because of one bad patch Aye?

For the rest of you...

I do believe Lehab has mention that SCEE (or maybe SL I cant remember) Has addressed the lag problem, this should be getting dealt with. as for the mines and BR's. You might just have to fix your timing.

[RJ O'Connell]

The mine tweaks I'm sort of indifferent to since I have such awful luck racing online anyway.

If you ask me the weapon pads do not need to be deactivated for so f*cking long after someone flies over them, I cannot, CANNOT F*CKING STAND having to lift off until they re-activate and I lose an assload of track position. That's one of the big changes I'm still waiting for.

As for the handling tweaks, well, I still find it weird that Thrust and Handling are usually all that matter in racing usually, which is why AG Systems, FEISAR, Harimau and Goteki dominated - then there's Icaras and Auricom which are pretty mediocre at both, but they're still on that same level. So shouldn't Triakis and Piranha be just as good as Auricom and Icaras despite having one less point of thrust than they do? Shouldn't EG-X be absolutely amazing with handling on par with Icaras, thrust on par with AG Systems and speed on par with Assegai, instead of being a lardy, useless utter piece of sh*t? I applaud them for at least trying to level it out, although I'll also agree they didn't need to change the lighter handling ships as much.

[JABBERJAW]

overall for me, the framerate I found to be as good or better, but lost one race tonight due to the ****ing game stop for two second on lap 5. The barrel roll works in some races, and when I was playing darkdrium one on one, it was decent for me until lap 4/5 when it wouldn 't work even when spazzing out, barrel rolling 10X the amount and it still did not work. TT seemed the same to me, and I will need to play a few more nights to see if the speed is different since I have some serious rust in the consisitency department.

[SaturnReturn]

Saturn - Yes mines are annoying but its your fault if your going full speed without looking ahead


I've raced you plenty Vartazian. You're as fast as anyone and previously I always knew I would have a good game against you. But I find it a little disrespectful of you to say that. Not because I think I'm the dog's danglies or anything. But because I've spent a lot of time playing this game. I know what the tracks look like after 300 hours. I'm not looking behind me. To imply that I'm annoyed because I'm not paying attention or something, well, I just don't know what to say to that.

And to have the attitude that I should just accept things because someone else tells me they're going to be different now is also something I fundamentally disagree with. This is a thread for people to vent about the update if they have complaints. That's what I'm doing.

Also, you're still focussing on the mines. I admit I have done a lot too because I have big issues with it. But even if we put that aside then I can't ignore all the other problems that are really just unacceptable whether anyone has experienced them before or not. If all these issues had existed in a game that I had newly purchased then I would send that game straight back and I would be damn sure that the vendor knew about them.

[TheFrostE]

i like what they have tried to do with the game, but unfortunately it has introduced a lot of annoyances and bugs. if properly fixed this could be a nice start to adding content to the game. UGH ! i also cant stand how my feisar handles

[Avenger2197]

Putting aside all that I like with the new patch, here are several of my gripes:

Altitude sensitive BR's: Okay, I'm no BR fanatic, but not being able to perform those that I CAN pull off consistently off-line is just silly. Ubermall comes to mind firstly in that regard. The fact that it seems to be area specific also doesn't help at all.:naughty Lag or whatever is the cause should not matter.

Mines: I can see the need for making mines more visible, and larger to possibly fix the bomb problem we were experiencing. But, the time for them to explode too? My apologies but this should not be any different than off-line. 'nuff said.

Craft reaction: Overall I'd have to say this is my least favorite new "feature". I understand entirely making things more even, and therefore fun, but I think the craft reaction to weapons, walls, and other craft to be destroying the flow of many races I've been having. Now I DON't want to put it back the way it was, but a bit less would be A-OK.;)

Rank system: Too indescript imo. I have no idea if any of the races I'm taking part in mean anything. I race against people who are rank 8 I barely get any advancement. i play against someone maybe a rank or two below me my progress skyrockets. i just don't understand, so could someone from SL please explain what helps get your rank up officially so we're not just guessing?

That's all for now. Don't want to bore anyone. Just food for thought I guess.:)

[Soccermom]

Woah!
Angry crowd in here :o

I am sure SL realizes there are lag issues at the moment (which btw. of course also affects your ability to BR).
Haven't done much offline racing, but from the few laps I did do, it seemed like handling was normal there. So I am assuming most issues you are experiencing is due to lag and strained servers. I am guessing they will need some load data from the coming days to address this, since patch releases always generates abnormal traffic (they cannot size their services according to that).
Anyway, I agree with the online issues described by others in here, and I think, it is great people are providing their observations, but why are you assuming they are not working to fix it?

[Avenger2197]

My apologies,.... but was that to me?

If so, be assured I know SL are probably downing coffee by the barrelful to fix these issues. I have had, and remain having, full faith in our intrepid creators of the greatest game in the universe.:g

[Soccermom]

It wasn't directed at anyone particular. Just the feel I got from reading many of the posts the last 2-3 pages in the thread :banzai

... and just to emphasize, Avenger, your post is a nice and constructive way of relaying concerns:+

[Avenger2197]

Ah right. it was getting a bit hostile in here for a while. Hmm, I wonder if a new thread detailing what we would want changed might be a good idea?

[Darkdrium777]

The same as the changelog, yes why not.

As a side note, the freeze on startup issue because of 1.30 has been fixed (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/04/07/wipeout-hd-update-racing-to-psn/). See, they're already doing stuff on it. :)

[Vartazian]

@ Saturn - I am truly sorry, it was not my intent to offend you. You clearly have played this game much longer then I have (hence why you are faster then me ;) ) But I just found it a little "weak" (for lack of a better term) That someone would complain about something as small and insignificant as mines.

Maybe Im overlooking things... that is not my intent... so I'm truly sorry. I just found myself adapting preety much right when the patch was released.. I think Im 11th or something right now overall. I just have to push that little much more to get up.

Nothing wrong with being displeased.. we just have different views is all =)

[NeilSmith]

I just wanted to add my name to the list of people who have been experiencing any of the following;

* 1 second lags every now and then on most tracks, seems very random to me
* Game locking up during loading screens or during speccing (only solution is to restart the PS3)
* Broken weapon pads (you get no item when flying over them), happened on several tracks

Other than that I love the patch. The fun value of the game just got upped a couple of notches, and the changelog tells me that Studio Liverpool really listens to the player requests. But I definitely hope they can fix some of the bugs mentioned since they are can be game breaking. Keep up the good work

[KGB]

KGB - I was still content with the game. The only things I wanted were minor tweaks. I know you're not referring directly to me or anything. Just sayin'.


Of course mate it wasn't directed at you, but at the moment there are about 4 or 5 different threads saying the same thing, so it was more a general feeling of mine about a lot of posts. I don't think there's any need for so many threads on one thing to be honest.

Infact i agree with you saturn, espescially the mines, they were perfectly fine as they were, they are a big problem now. I know they are staying on track for at least the time it takes to do a lap and for me to hit my own mines again. I havent checked lately (but i will) how many hours i have played but it could be close to 300 hrs! Like you, i think the game has become something different to what i was playing.

But I like the little things they have implemented in the update and can only see it as a good thing for the future. It will get better.

I have been playing Wipeout for 13 years as well and i feel that anyone who loves the game as much as Saturn does should be allowed to express his thoughts on the subject, and NOT be told he is crying about it. If anyone says to me LAW **** right off. IMHO.

[SaturnReturn]

That someone would complain about something as small and insignificant as mines.

Nothing wrong with being displeased.. we just have different views is all =)

I think if you take those two sentences together, then it probably explains things. At my end they're not insignificant - in many races now they just are the game. Different people have a different experience of the online game. I think some of these things aren't subjective. From what people have said the mines things isn't happening offline. I'd agree with this, as my offline races were just much more fun. So I guess Soccermums is right, it's probably a lag related issue, which also means it could affect one person more than another. Now that I think about it - are most of the people having problems with mines in Europe?

Also Vartazian, I'm not sure I am faster than you. If I am then I doubt it's a massive amount as I've had plenty of good games with you. I've been seeing a lot of guys recently who pop up out of no-where and are really fast. You were one of them and when someone mentioned a Canadian Team for the World Cup you were my first thought for their 2nd player. I've probably just played longer and had more chance to get lucky with records. I still can't keep up with half my ghosts sometimes. Stupid speedy ghosts!

Anyway, maybe I'll take some videos to show what it looks like at my end. That probably gives a better explanation than my words.

Soccermums - Thanks for your observations, at least they make me a little more hopeful that my experiences of the update will improve.

[chboing]

i eat 20 mines at breakfast. After that, i drink a whisky, and then i **** 3 mini-freezes deep and i come right into lag's face.

those who are afraid of them are girlies !!!!!(no offence stinkleroy)
Wipeout : we race, we die, AND we are not afraid of small little insignifiant things like bugs.
When my ship is 0, on the verge of exploding, do you really think bug is something that shouldnt happen ? come on ! show your balls (or your tits) we're not playing football here ! if you dont have nerves to stand against bugs, then go and play curling !

and if you dont agree, then come on track and make me silent !! (ban is another solution though ...)

:)

[LOUDandPROUD]

@ SaturnReturn - I've had the mine issues as well, and I'm in the US.

@ chboing - :lol

[yeldar2097]

I'm playing offline right now. One thing I've noticed is that you can't barrel roll at all if you're critical.
Please tell me that's a joke :(


...Yeldar makes the point that he can't get close to his own times now. I don't think this is a lack of skill on his part.


I haven't posted a single decent time since this update...has anyone?
That's right I can't get anywhere near my times now, really ****ing me off.
Best time so far was a top20 on moa reverse. Not really surprising since there are no (standard) BRs on that track. The rest of my times have all been 75th(give or take a few) or worse.

Please fix my favourite game ever Studio Liverpool

[stinkleroy]

Hehe chboing...no offense taken :p I wish I could video what was happening at my end though...then you'd see the slogan should just be '......we die' :lol

[RJ O'Connell]

I like the idea of having not being able to BR when shields are critical, it was in Wipeout Pure so it's not some new tweak in the game that was just slapped on without any thought process.

(Speaking of Pure...oh, Xlink Kai, I still can't figure you out...)

[chboing]

i have never been able to BR when i was under 15 energy

[Lance]

Ah right. it was getting a bit hostile in here for a while. Hmm, I wonder if a new thread detailing what we would want changed might be a good idea?

Since this thread already details the things people are unhappy with and want changed, what would be the point of an essentially duplicate thread?

[Soccermom]

Soccermums - Thanks for your observations, at least they make me a little more hopeful that my experiences of the update will improve.

Rest assured Saturn, if it turns out (lag aside) that the game-mechanic changes are intended, then I will be more whiny than all of you together :lol

I strictly play this game online only. There are even tracks where I haven't completed a single TT/SL offline, so this game is dead for me, if online doesn't get fixed (this also includes weapon balance, where the spawn distribution key seems off at the moment).

Right now though, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt :cake

[pirahpac]

before the patch : 0 record single race with glitch or cheat ...after : i can count 15 in all class with record 1 seconde ...nice patch :turd

[leungbok]

i eat 20 mines at breakfast. After that, i drink a whisky, and then i **** 3 mini-freezes deep and i come right into lag's face.

those who are afraid of them are girlies !!!!!(no offence stinkleroy)
Wipeout : we race, we die, AND we are not afraid of small little insignifiant things like bugs.
When my ship is 0, on the verge of exploding, do you really think bug is something that shouldnt happen ? come on ! show your balls (or your tits) we're not playing football here ! if you dont have nerves to stand against bugs, then go and play curling !

and if you dont agree, then come on track and make me silent !! (ban is another solution though ...)

:)

Cool to know that, mate ! You can count on me to try to give you your massive dose of mines ! :lol
Me too, i hope humor is not a reason to be banned !! :frown: ;)

[AG-wolf]

Ah right. it was getting a bit hostile in here for a while. Hmm, I wonder if a new thread detailing what we would want changed might be a good idea?
Just reinforcing what lance said... that was kind of the idea when I made this thread in the first place :P

Another nuisance with the update: When I've highlighted a room I want to join, sometimes a new game will appear in the list the split-second I go to confirm my room choice, and suddenly I've picked a different room. New game-rooms shouldn't spawn between established rooms, they should either appear at the bottom of the list, or if they're going to appear further up, it shouldn't move your cursor.

[Avenger2197]

You guys are right.;) I wasn't thinking clearly, my apologies. No sleep will do that to you.

[SaturnReturn]

AG-Wolf - That happend to me plenty even before the update. But I agree it's a little irritating. Not as much now that you can join games in progress though.

[AG-wolf]

maybe it's just a result of ALL the games in progress being listed now. Whatever the case, it needs to be fixed. If you've highlighted something in a list, it shouldn't force your selection to change.... that's basic common sense.

[Zitrax]

I have not noticed much change to the handling of the ships and I have no big problem with the changes for the weapons.

My two must frustrating issues so far:

* That you have to select each game to see if it's in progress. What were they thinking ? And also it has happened to me many times that just when I am about to join one game the list updates and i end up joining some other game instead.
* Freeze during the loading screen. Seem to happen to me when I join a game just as it's started, usually when I do not even get the chance to choose team.

Another freeze just happened once but was quite weird, I was alone in a created game when it suddenly started with only me there; and then it frooze when loading reached 100%.

About the rating system, I would preffered system more similar to chess and other games where you start out with a certain mid range rating that then goes up or down depending on your performance. A rating which also dropped when a person is inactive. But I guess SL might think such a system might be a bit too harch for the not so good players. The current system makes everyone feel positive progress, but that feels a bit more like an activity meter than a performance meter. But now I do not know the details of the current system, can you loose rating ? I saw it mentioned that you did loose when aborting a game, but how much and are there other way to get negative rating ?

[RJ O'Connell]

before the patch : 0 record single race with glitch or cheat ...after : i can count 15 in all class with record 1 seconde ...nice patch :turd
I have a 12 second SR time at Moa Therma now, thankfully it isn't showing up in the online records. (And a 58 second time at Metropia!)

Then again, pirahpac, you and Flashback Jack are awfully fast so one-second times for either one of you isn't unrealistic. ;) :g

Once again, they aren't showing up in the online records though, so that's good I guess.

[Darkdrium777]

My list of unsatisfactory points:
+Mines
+Glitched times
+Uber Rockets
+Micro-stutters

[leungbok]

Agree with those points
You can add an awfull ship behavior to watch on spectator mode (please sl, fix that too, because this mode is an awesome idea)

[pirahpac]

how its possible ?? on 6 tour sl metropia ..i tried a new br so bad times ..but my better sl showing a 22.02 on my 6 laps...why i see 21.52 in global ???omg i hope tt and sl dont bug ..that suck...nice patch....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMp4F483sc

[Hellfire_WZ]

Just had a series of races with TheFrostE, and active weapon pads were becoming a serious issue. I think all of us at one point realised that in one particular race there were only two working pads

[Darkdrium777]

Yes, but this is not 1.30. It has been there before (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100380&postcount=12). Look at post date.
It's the same bug, just different colour on weapon pad.

[silverfoxy]

I've found the worst instances of this happening is when I have been in rooms with a Japanese host (no offence guys !!) and there have been 2 or 3 weapons pads missing on a track and the time it takes to show up what weapon you have picked up can be between 1-3 seconds.

Haven't suffered to this extent with EU or USA hosts but you do get the occasional missing weapon pad.

[TheFrostE]

</3 SL...you have broken my heart...wth were you thinking. such cool features...ruined by releasing so many bugs with this patch a BIG</3 for you

[RJ O'Connell]

Because their intent is totally to make a buggy, unenjoyable game, right? [/heavybitingsarcasm]

[TheFrostE]

no but what i am saying is that they could have done a bit more testing and touch ups before releasing one of their most drastic patches for the game to date., im not trying to start an argument either, this is a thread for complaints....thus you will be reading opinions you dont agree with.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Darkdrium, it's slightly different in this case, I've only experienced the odd weapon pad out before but this time it was pretty much the whole track

[Asayyeah]

I am very surprised to see all those negative feedbacks from the patch after reading those +80 posts.
Yes i can conceive that people get frustrated cause patch is not working immediately at its full potential but SL is working on it , we can be sure of that.

I got also those 12 years of practice on the various wipeout versions and many hours spent off & online playing HD. Ok i am not the top player of HD ( i don't have those free hours top guys have) but i am very pleased with this new patch cause i know SL is reading what we are saying here or elsewhere, they pay attention to our request and tried to do their best with what they have/being 'offered' by SCEE.

As i said elsewhere into WZ , i didn't noticed any visible difference from my icaras / Ag sys handling, with my internal view and set up like this ( 100% airbrakes, 10% thrust, 80% pitch motion), my racetimes are pretty similar to what they were previously.

Agreed for the slowdowns, also to know what races are up and running or those who are waiting for pilots to start races ( sorry not very well described) and the bugs into the ranking tables ( but we got Connavar brilliant website so it's not a big deal for those who wants to reach the highest ranking).

Try to adapt yourself guys cause i can tell you what you are experimenting is not a lot compare to changement from Negcon to Dpad/stick ( parallel to the old wipeouts till fusion and Pure from psp).

Anyway i am into the minority but i don't care, i am racing for pleasure & fun & for records with that new patch on, i just find so sad all those 'harsh' comments from the majority about a fantastic patch which is not fully performanced ATM but will be soon i am sure.

[SaturnReturn]

New complaint - Earlier on JJPAP mentioned that in Time Trial his fastest ghost was not showing up. I'm doing some now and he's right. It seems ghosts are messed up too. At the start of the race the ghost will frequently disappear and then reappear either a long way behind or a long way ahead. So there are some things that need addressing in offline mode too.

To look on the positive side for once (while I'm here complaining again :p): The update should raise the game's profile and bring new players and raise revenue. Hopefully this will lead to an even bigger and better WipEout game next time around with an even bigger fan base and many more dedicated players. That can only be a good thing.

[rdmx]

Bug: If you spectate someone who then leaves the game, your screen gets stuck on a 'dnf' screen until the race finishes.

[Ally]

On the edge of quitting altogether. I'm a dedicated Assegai/Rapier racer and I'm telling you the handling and speed has changed - thing feels like a slug now. I've been trying my heart out and still getting a doing, when I finally readjust to the handling and race like a demon the people behind me (names I've smoked regularly) still reel me in like I'm a fish on a hook.
I actually had a party back in September the night after the game came out (trips+zone mode=happy house) because I love WipEout so much, and have played nothing but since - my games for Christmas are still in the wrapper. This is pretty soul-destroying.

[CaptainWipeout]

Somebody noticed - thank God Ally.

The handling and racing on WO HD was a work of art. Handling was sensitive and accurate when you knew what you were doing. Racing distances between ships was also realistic and accurate.

That's ALL gone and so have I.

It's just a complete botch - gone is the work of art.

[eLhabib]

Seriously, I don't even know what the hell you guys are talking about. I've done a lot of racing since the update, and I sure didn't notice any changes in ship handling and gameplay...

[SaturnReturn]

It's very confusing actually. Some people can't notice any difference. Experienced players too they are. But for some of us it's just ruined. There has to be some explanation for it. So many folk can't be imagining it. Why is it so different for some and the same for others? Very strange!

[Ally]

Surely then the fact that some of us notice a big difference like that and some don't is an even worse scenario...

[darkfaerytales]

people, if Colin himself said he haven't noticed any changes , these supposed handling and physics changes aren't reported in the notes, and most of the veteran player haven't encountered any,
i believe these are just tricks of mind...i can't find any other explaination

we have only to wait the enquiry by Colin next week

[SaturnReturn]

Most of the veteran players haven't encountered any? Who is most? I don't know really who are the veteran players but I can tell you lots of very good players have, i.e. players who have played HD since it came out. People who have been dedicated to one ship are noticing changes in that particular ship. From what I've seen the number of people who haven't noticed a change in the feel of the way ships handle is less than those who have. But I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's not a programmed in change and that perhaps something else is causing it by accident. Probably just lag leading to an unresponsive feel as it seems to be mostly an online issue.

[darkfaerytales]

don't know what to think or what to say at the moment, the only reasonable thing to do is wait for an official word by the studio

[CaptainWipeout]

My Icarus has turned into a Triakis. It feels heavy and dead.

In fact it's very arcade like (yes I know it was never meant to be a simulator but it was of its own kind which made it popular), and I feel that there's less skill required and anybody could win........... which equals less fun for me I'm afraid.

[Asayyeah]

tss tss tss

:mr-t

[RJ O'Connell]

What ship do you usually use, Saturn - if you don't me asking? Or at least what you used in 1.20?

I switched to Goteki 45 (I need to update my WArena account to reflect this too possibly) just this weekend from FEISAR, for me I can deal with the heavier handling of Goteki's yellow brick very well and I get the benefit of ridiculously awesome thrust.

[IH8YOU]

At first I thought I imagined this - but after it happening several times - I know it's real.

When side-shifting, the ship is now jumping (randomly) in the WRONG direction. Side shift right, ship shifts left. ???
:frown:

[leungbok]

I haven't noticed any change in the ship's handling other than the micro-freezes and impossibility of performing br sometimes (but scarcely). Maybe off topic but i had a funny experience last night. I tried to join friends in current races, and i choosed a tournament with Asa. I followed his ship in spectator mode, and after a while my french mate were destroyed (^^). after the respawn, instead of a brand new ag-system, his ship kept his destroyed form. It was hilarious to see that smoldering wreckage, sideshifting and barrel rolling all the way. Arnaud, i understand now why you race in internal view, it's a shame to pilot such wreck, i'll talk about you at mtv's "pimp my ride" show :lol

[SaturnReturn]

What ship do you usually use, Saturn - if you don't me asking? Or at least what you used in 1.20?


I used FEISAR a lot and more recently used Icaras a lot. Anyway, I'm not going to talk about it any more as I feel like I'm getting all the attention on things that a lot of people have mentioned (probably because I'm the one that got my knickers in a twist the most early on:p). It's nothing personal and I don't mind you asking as I think you're just trying to understand the issue now, as am I. But I think the best thing to do, as darkfaerytales says, it to wait for official word, especially given the good game I had last night. Last night at 2am and the night before, also in the early hours, the online game felt better. I'm going to focus on that because I relly enjoyed myself last night with all the zoners that were there. I think if the online lag issues can be worked out then it could be a good patch in the future.


i choosed a tournament with Asa. I followed his ship in spectator mode, and after a while my french mate were destroyed (^^). after the respawn, instead of a brand new ag-system, his ship kept his destroyed form.

Thanks for letting us know leungbok. z1r0rEi mentioned that my ship looked destroyed, so this explains it :+

[Axel]

Well I'll tell you guys one thing. I've been away for almost 2 months now and can fly my Aricom craft very smoothly lol. I also thought there must be some handling changes but I doubt it. I think what they have done is improve the dual pad stick sensitivity. My craft moves properly now and not as quick.

This is fantastic for someone like me who doesn't have a steady thumb :P. But I could be just imagining these things!

To be honest guys, just adapt and move on. Why are people so against change these days especially when it's something not even drastic!

[stinkleroy]

Has anyone thought that maybe the handling issues are ship specific? I've heard quite a few Auricom users say they have experienced little or no change, whereas Icaras, AG systems, Feisar etc I have heard many complaints. I know my AG definately feels different, it seems weird but it's something I noticed immediately....who knows whats going on...:?:

[LOUDandPROUD]

@ IH8YOU - Personally, I haven't had any problems with sideshifting at all.

[AG-wolf]

I haven't had any issues with side-shifting, either.

As far as handling goes, it feels like Qirex is more sluggish and has a harder time getting air to do barrel rolls.

[blackwiggle]

To me it feels like the crafts handling stats have been lessened by 0.5 .

I use mostly AG

They just seem just that fraction less responsive ,you don't really notice it at anything less than phantom speed,it's like you have to use your air brakes just a tad more than what you used to so you can keep the same lines.

I've sort of gotten used to it now,but it threw me out for a while.

The place where you notice it most is Ubermall forward,those quick changes of direction needed to get over the chicane and onto the sweeping bend.

[Asayyeah]

No problem of sideshifting either
Bugs ( no br activation, mini sluttering, grey visible) are less visible
, for me it's almost (95%) back to normal condition. A great pleasure to race you guys, it rocks Yeah


i choosed a tournament with Asa. I followed his ship in spectator mode, and after a while my french mate were destroyed (^^). after the respawn, instead of a brand new ag-system, his ship kept his destroyed form. It was hilarious to see that smoldering wreckage, sideshifting and barrel rolling all the way. Arnaud, i understand now why you race in internal view, it's a shame to pilot such wreck, i'll talk about you at mtv's "pimp my ride" show :lol
You dirty basturd :lol, you spy your good friend yoda while he was having a hard time surviving to those hungry predator WZ pilots are :P

[IH8YOU]

It's not something I'm imaging - I swear. I'll try to get a video of it - happened 8 or more times now. Never happened before, as this is one of those "WTF? Didn't I turn left here???" things.

I'm positive it's tied in with the lag - even so, driving me nuts...

A crazy thought I'm having - worth consideration though. As some of us are seeing "huge changes in handling" and others see "none at all" - what if it's hardware related? 1st Gen PS3s had different hardware (PS2 chip, for example) - maybe the reason some of us who perform at similar levels (race-wise) who see the game differently now - maybe that's the variable?

Launch PS3 (North America) 60GB. DS3 Controller, 10MB Cable Internet - 1920x1080HD.
L1/R1 Airbrakes, L2 Look Behind, R2 Chat, O Fire, [] Absorb, X Go, /\ Camera

It JUST happened about 30 seconds after I wrote this post! Side-shifted right on Metropia (sharp right before finish line) and ship jumped off to the left (and off the track, too).

[LOUDandPROUD]

I have the same model PS3 as you...my settings are slightly different though.

[Cerbis]

Not to spam too much here, but I just wanted to remind people that Colin Berry said there shouldn't be any handling changes, and that he was going to make an enquiry regarding it sometime this week? I don't know where the post is specifically, but it was in one of the threads discussing the 1.30 patch.
So I suppose we'll know the truth soon enough? Just don't pester him about it, I guess?

I do however think that something did change with the lag prediction/behaviour in the game. Just how many have gotten the "Elimination mode" bug, where you get stuck as a Spectator or something, and can't respawn? Good fun, but a bit iffy. And of course, the on/off barrel rolls and other amazing glitches that I'd wager are probably related to the netcode changes. There must be changes, to allow for the spectators, and the seemingly more accurate bomb placement display online.

[KIGO1987]

It seems like Windows Vista pads are in the norm now:(

[Connavar]

I didn't notice any difference with handling of the ships, well at least AG-Systems feels
exactly the same on Phantom, but I had decided to set airbrakes to 50% instead of 60%,
before the patch (don't know why?). So maybe I anticipated the change :D

[leungbok]

WTF ???
I've just made a little speedlap session on metropia reverse.
I was surprised to pretty easily pass my ghost. It must be a fast one normally (0.19.28 ). So i suspected something, quitted the game and look at the wipeout-hd's save data folder. And my last ghost (metropia reverse phantom) is a 0.19.86 !!! :bomb The second one has the correct time (new personnal record on sol2, made 20 minutes before my attempt on metropia reverse)
Where's my fast ghost of metropia ????
I'll save all my fastest ghosts on El Habib's website, but it must be fixed, hugely annoying :turd !!!
Very weird !! i've just look at my ghosts data on my second account (BADTEST) and this latest ghost is here too (0.19.86) top of my main save ???????
Something else, i beated this new f****g ghost several times and it didn't changes ????
Well, i erased it now and i'll create a new one, but really...:brickwall

[LOUDandPROUD]

It seems like Windows Vista pads are in the norm now:(

Yah, I know when I raced yesterday there were MAJOR pad problems in a whole bunch of races. Super annoying...

[NeilSmith]

Wipeout HD is by far my favourite game and I have been a loyal fan since Wipeout came out for the PSOne back in 1995 (Time flies!). However, Wipeout still has a little bit more to go before it can reach max potencial. These are some issues I'd like to see adressed in Wipeout HD;

* RACE IN PROGRESS, if possible could these have a different color than the ones that hasn't started yet.

* Harimau, what's the point with this ship when Assegai has better thrust. Harimau needs a 10 point boost.

* The startup timer is too low. Most of the time I'm unable to change my ship before the host starts the game (I like to use ships with good handling for tracks with sharp turns, and a fast ship on tracks with less turns). As of now the startup time is 3 seconds, this doesn't give the other players any time to change ships before the game is started.

* More stats, I'd really like to have stats in the scoreboard showing how many Perfect Laps and Eliminations each player got.

* 1 second lags during every single race I've attended since the 1.30 patch was released. Happens on every track. Some times the screen even goes black for 3-4 seconds with no sound and when I return I'm flying the wrong way (or into a wall) even though I'm racing a straight line. This is really a game breaker for me, I've lost 6-7 races due to this.

* Unplayable 2-player split screen performance; The performance was so poor the other day when me and a friend played some 2-player split screen races we had to quit after a couple of games. It was far worse than before the 1.30 patch and it doesn't feel half as smooth as playing singleplayer.

* Game locking up during loading screens or during speccing (only solution is to restart the PS3).

* Broken weapon pads (you get no item when flying over them), happened on several tracks.

* Poor spectating mode; When spectating a race I notice that the ship movement, camera etc.. is by no way similar to the real deal.

* Text chat, it would totally rock if Wipeout HD took use of the new Text Chat feature that was implemented in firmware 2.70. I'd love to have a button in the lobby that automatically started a Text Chat session with all the players in the room. This is only a dream wish, don't know how realistic\easy it would be to implement though.

* Elimination Mode; It is tons of fun, requires different strategies as well as being very challenging.
Adding elimination mode together with a new trophy ("Mass Murderer" = 200 online kills) would be great! ;)

What do you guys think? Any input is welcomed

[Cerbis]

Many of your criticisms are valid, however your technical issues, such as your screen going blank are things I've never seen or noticed.
Perhaps your Playstation 3 is getting shaky?
You can also try to improve the connection, if you're using the PS3 with WiFi. It just might help, with less packet loss between your router and console?
The stuttering you notice sometimes is assumed to be due to spectators joining the game you're currently in.
You notice this stuttering drastically less in games near the eight-player limit, and practically never in eight-player games.
Things like "broken" weapon pads are due to lag, you'll see a LOT of it online sadly. There's no fix, apart from Studio Liverpool performing a miracle with the netcode for the game.

I don't know what you mean with this three-second startup time...
Hosts can start the game manually, and then a three-second countdown starts,
but that is a choice the host makes, it's not the fault of the game. You cannot change your craft during this three-second start either.
Another feature added in the older 1.20 or 1.26 patch was an Idle starting timer.
If something around two minutes passes without the host doing anything, a 15 second timer will start to allow everyone else to race, even if the host has gone away.

Now, I've been playing the Harimau a lot lately. I find it a natural progression from the Piranha at Phantom speeds because of the smooth, rear-heavy feel of it that's, to me, very similar to the Fish,
without being as heavy-turning as the Piranha.
I'd say there's a big point to the Harimau, and there's been many threads discussing the statistics of the craft, and each and every thread has come to the conclusion that there's more to consider than just the numbers.
Handling, feel and cornering strategies differ between all of them. Just compare the seemingly very similar Triakis and Piranha. They're very little alike despite their similar statistics.

[andybob35]

Ive had quick browse to see if it was just me noticing slight bugs.. Things ive noticed...

1. where did all this lag come from? (probably 'spectator mode') & grey weapons pads.
2. apart from moa reverse; barrel rolls arent as easy to do.. left-right-left-right-left-right-and finally u land it... no point doing the sneaky one's on the first corner of chen i take it..?!
3. watching a wall glitch.... sorry, spectator mode... great idea but needs a whole lot of ironing out..
4. being partially baked i havent noticed to much change in Ag-S, but ive been on alot lately.
5. oh yea.. dont worry about getting a plasma, the new rockets and mines will do just as well... being cluster****ed has never been so distressing!
6. online rank? no point, stick to connavar site! based on your records and not how much you play the game!

--------------------------------------------------

I havent looked at the ranking system much (on Wz anyway) but you can see who plays it the most... and not how good u really are.... if i was new and played it solidly all day today, they could match my rank (lowely 11 atm) and they would be better? gives me an idea....:banzai:banzai:banzai hehe

Without bitchin' further, i like the idea of badges (worms has a similar one too) but i just get the same old 'speed hunter' and 'successful victim' (you know who you are ;)) but will look forward to finding out which ones i need. Saying that, ill pop on soon and be disapointed with the new wipeout only to go back and play psn Worms (just as old skool!)

Fix those bugs SL... and 'dodgey' looking times that have now appeared (i think all you TT/SL people are ok!!) otherwise the being of something good!

[NeilSmith]

Many of your criticisms are valid, however your technical issues, such as your screen going blank are things I've never seen or noticed.
Perhaps your Playstation 3 is getting shaky?

Screen goes completely blank and I don't hear any sound at all for 3 seconds. I never had any problems with any of the other games I play. It seems lag related to me, cause as soon as the black screen goes away I'm in a position on the track that I in no possible way can do manually, so packet loss or lag seems to be the cause. On the other hand I don't have any programs running and I don't have any lag spikes while running diagnostics. My 6mbit line should handle Wipeout fairly well since I play alot of other online games without any problems.


You can also try to improve the connection, if you're using the PS3 with WiFi. It just might help, with less packet loss between your router and console?

I'm not using WiFi, all Wire :)


The stuttering you notice sometimes is assumed to be due to spectators joining the game you're currently in.
You notice this stuttering drastically less in games near the eight-player limit, and practically never in eight-player games.

If this is due to spectators joining the game, I really think SL should exclude the option to spectate games, cause this is incredible annoying when racing. I don't mind the screen lagging behind 1 second but if I loose 1 second on my time then shame on SL :)


Things like "broken" weapon pads are due to lag, you'll see a LOT of it online sadly. There's no fix, apart from Studio Liverpool performing a miracle with the netcode for the game.

I have played Wipeout HD steady since it was released and have only encountered broken weapon pads 2 times, after the 1.30 patch I see them all the time. On some tracks the weapon pad is broken already from the start with me being the first to pass over it.


I don't know what you mean with this three-second startup time...
Hosts can start the game manually, and then a three-second countdown starts,
but that is a choice the host makes, it's not the fault of the game. You cannot change your craft during this three-second start either.
Another feature added in the older 1.20 or 1.26 patch was an Idle starting timer.
If something around two minutes passes without the host doing anything, a 15 second timer will start to allow everyone else to race, even if the host has gone away.

I know the host is able to start the game whenever he wants, but when he changes the settings of the game from rapier to phantom, or from playing Vineta K to Chengu Projects I'd really like to be able to change my ship before the game starts, a solution to this would be to add a couple of more seconds on the count-down timer.


Now, I've been playing the Harimau a lot lately. I find it a natural progression from the Piranha at Phantom speeds because of the smooth, rear-heavy feel of it that's, to me, very similar to the Fish,
without being as heavy-turning as the Piranha.
I'd say there's a big point to the Harimau, and there's been many threads discussing the statistics of the craft, and each and every thread has come to the conclusion that there's more to consider than just the numbers.
Handling, feel and cornering strategies differ between all of them. Just compare the seemingly very similar Triakis and Piranha. They're very little alike despite their similar statistics.

That may be so, I'd really like to know all the hidden stats (like weight) other than Speed, Thrust, Handling and Shield. Some ships are heavier than others and will easily push smaller\weaker ships out of their way.

[Darkdrium777]

Some ships are heavier than others and will easily push smaller\weaker ships out of their way.No, they won't, because online physics interactions are broken and always act out at your disadvantage :)

[Asayyeah]

WTF ???

yeah It looks so weird, no explanation found ! is this the same for your other ghosts?

[TorquedSoul]

This is going to sound crazy ... I haven't slept in almost 48 hours so take it with a grain of salt ... But is anyone else noticing that handling issues seem to get worse as you go up in levels? I also notice that I'm not getting screwed out of barrel rolls and weapon pads. how the hell do you miss a barrel roll on the chengou drop? And my ships seem to be crawling ... even on phantom. I dont see these problems on campaign play. WTF.

Maybe I'm just tired but none of the ships feel right. Hell I just have a barrel roll kick off and I didn't even move my control stick ... luckily for me I was low on energy and the boost from barrel roll smashed me into a wall and blew me the hell up. My first rage quit ... sorry andybob.

I think I need to go play some other game for a while ... Little Big Planet seems peaceful and relaxing.

And yeah ... my ghost are screwed up too ... some of them lurch at teh start. they will start out fine then after a couple races they get glichy.

[leungbok]

yeah It looks so weird, no explanation found ! is this the same for your other ghosts?
No, fortunately, mate, the others are safe ! ;)
The same problem happened to Pirahpac this afternoon, he looses his metropia reverse ghost 0.19.39. The same track ??? Maybe a specific bug ?:eek

[Seraphim1982]

I've been getting a weird problem very occasionally all my opponents will just stop (or be stationary from the start) but there will be weapons being fired from invisible ships as if they are still going round.

The race still goes on and everyone has a postion at the end though, anyone else encountered this?

[blackwiggle]

Anybody else getting a white out screen where it looks like you are flying through a snow storm or cloud ?

I got that on the last two races of a tournament yesterday Sebenco reverse and Ubermall reverse,the last was the worse because of the already Grey look of the track,it was basically unracable conditions.

I have to agree with TorquedSoul ,how the hell can't you do a BR off the jump on Chenghou?
Is the NO BR option switching itself in automatically for part of a race?
It seems so.

And dead weapons pads ,this has got REALLY bad now,what's the point of having a good start and running over them and getting nothing ,then the craft immediately behind getting those pick ups and you then get creamed.
I've lost count of the number of times this has happened.
It throws any thought of tactics out the window.
I'll race AVALON when I choose thanks SL ,not when the game decides.

I'm starting to have some doubts about all the speed pads being operational as well,not one hundredth as bad as the weapon pad debacle,but it seems to happen,very rarely I admit ,but it is something that I have noticed,and no I not imagining this,I've been playing this game long enough to know when I miss a speed pad

The glitches that happen are a game stuffer,I don't know if it's because I'm so far away from everybody else but I'm suffering lots lots more of them now ,it was tolerable pre patch,and we in Australia have always suffered from this ,but I just give up racing now if it happens and just go through the motions for a finish,there's no point

I've never played as much online as I have in the last few days ,the only bug free & good element of this patch so far is that you can actually see who is playing online and join in.
After the game they are racing has finished I might add,I wait ,as I know jumping in mid race causes the glitches,pity more don't do the same.

Same goes for spectator mode,used it once,realized it caused the glitches and have never used it since.

[Connavar]

About the BRs online, I found a solution, since then no more BRs missed on
Chenghou, Ubermall etc, just do the Left-Right-Left multiple times!

Sometimes I have to do it 3-4 times to register the BR, but at least it works :)

[Constrictor]

Hi everybody!

Just want to add my 2 euro cents on the v1.30 patch. Didn't play that much in the last weeks but after the patch I was motivated to test.

As most of the issues has been written down by now so I just want to add ...

(Most of) the ships fly different - for me!

It's like having modded your car w/ a new suspension and/or tires or added some weight *sic* . In short it does not feel that direct, like the steering was before the patch. Interesting to see that there are different experiences with that. New code also means sometimes strange race-conditions (in terms of computer science not 'racing') that are hard to debug. Hope they'll get this nailed down and fixed.

Most annoying thing is the stutter.

In general, I feel motivated to the enhancements IF the code is going to be fixed and some minor enhancements are made. For the time being it's not much fun to race online.

[Echthroi]

Jeeze. I don't really have a PS3. My friend Nate does, so he might end up buying Wipeout:HD soon, but I wasn't aware there were updates for it. That's kinda funny. My past experience with online games for consoles, is that it's never anything necessary when they update. They just screw with stuff at random it seems. :|

Now, the mines? I slightly understand that. but the control figuration change? That's Bull:turd

[NeilSmith]

All the crashing is really killing the game for me now. Performance stutter every time a spectator enters the game and random crashes all over the place (with music still playing in the background). SL really needs to look into this and release a fix of some kind or disable speccing completely (it is so bugged anyway).

[Darkdrium777]

Spectator mode:

'Watch the best players lag and make them crash when you switch to their ship!'

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/a/a7/Crazy_awesome.png/120px-Crazy_awesome.png




Disclaimer: If the enormous humorous smiley is not enough, this ^ is sarcasm. I just don't want any misunderstandings.

[SaturnReturn]

No, fortunately, mate, the others are safe ! ;)
The same problem happened to Pirahpac this afternoon, he looses his metropia reverse ghost 0.19.39. The same track ??? Maybe a specific bug ?:eek

Leungbok - Is yours and/or Pirahpac's messed up ghost on the first track you tried or is it just a completely random occurence?

[JJPAP]

Well, I´m not Leungbok ;), but as you know I had/have the same problem. My scary ghost is on Seb Rev - the first TT I did after the update. Have done other TT´s afterwards (not many, but some) and as far as I can see there are no probs with these ghosts. Strange.

[SaturnReturn]

My one that messed up was the first one I did too. If it's only the problem with the one ghost then it's not too bad. Folks can just back the one up and then restore it and hopefully it will be fine. Although I think it's good to take this opportunity to advise people to backup all their data as any game update/glith can cause major problems.

[leungbok]

Leungbok - Is yours and/or Pirahpac's messed up ghost on the first track you tried or is it just a completely random occurence?
Yesterday, i made a short session of speedlaps, on sol 2 first, beating my record and saving a new ghost without any problem. And after i made a try on metropia reverse, and i found my ghost (normally a 0.19.28 ) easy to pass oO. And always easy to pass (no upgrade of ghost in fact). So i went on the save data folder to see that my fast ghost was replaced by a new one, much more slow and impossible to upgrade.
Pihrapac had the same glitch on the same track.

[SaturnReturn]

Hmm, ok. Seems pretty random then. I'll back everything up. Thanks.

[Darkdrium777]

My Icaras 1.48.00 record on Anulpha shows up as Goteki on the track. So it's a Goteki ship model following my Icaras line. :eek

[RedScar]

Well after skimming through 14 and a bit pages of what looks to be frustrated wipers I'm kinda shocked. Yes, this patch has introduced a lot of small yet very gaming affecting bugs such as the microlag spikes, more dead weapon pads, and others. Yes this makes us all angry but I highly doubt that SL had intended for these and will ignore them so have faith and patience fellas.

However what I'm shocked at is the number of people who dislike the changes to the handling and ship stats. Yes its kinda annoying after having played with these ships for so long and then all of a sudden having them all changed, but I've got no serious issue with this. In fact I enjoy it more now, since I no longer see a server stacked with the same old ships. I played BF2 for the PC and through 1.0-1.42 DICE balanced the hell outta certain items completely changing major gameplay elements. Regardless of this though, the community learned to adapt and stuck with it. No offense to you all but it seems that you all are just to stuck on how the game was and not wanting to change. I understand how its frustrating to see your fav ship not how it was, but balancing is the nature of online games. Those who want can give up and go cry in a corner and never play WO again, those that don't can go on and enjoy the game.

[SaturnReturn]

I'm sure if it were just, for example, that FEISAR was a little less twichty and Harimau had a little more thrust then most would be fine with it. But,officially there are no changes to the handling. The fact that it is very inconsistent too is worrying. Some people are noticing it more, some not at all. I think this may be causing more annoyance for a lot of people. The inconsistency in the online game now makes it hard to adjust even though we keep trying.

[blackwiggle]

The problem of the change with the ship handling is that it is inconsistent.

I mainly use AG Systems and have had races where it is almost back to normal,others where it is unwieldy in comparison like Assagi or Feisar and yet others where it has made it handle exactly like Icarus or Triakis

It's like the game is loading the wrong handling stats for the chosen craft.

[SaturnReturn]

I've noticed similar things, and at the risk of sounding crazy, I swear at one point my goteki's handling changed completely mid-race. I even mentioned it in the chat-box at the time. It was very strange indeed. I'm probably just going slowly insane. That's a nice easy explanation. I'll take it.

[RedScar]

Well blackwiggle, if thats the case then that is more along the lines of a glitch rather then a change in gameplay by SL, to which case I would agree with the annoyance. This is unknown though so I will take it at face value for the time being till the time when they release 1.31 or 1.4.

I have noticed it though, racing some great wiper (name escapes me) but he was using goteki and pulling away from me while I was using mirage. This was happening on ALL tracks and while im not a great wiper im far from a push over either. He was pulling off 5 second wins so unless he was just piss ass lucky and picking up two or three turbos a race I don't see that. That said, I enjoyed racing him since I had to try and push myself to see if I could catch up and managed to for a couple of races before I had to stop.

oh and saturn, we are all going slowly insane ^-^

[The Gracer]

Disclaimer: If the enormous humorous smiley is not enough, this ^ is sarcasm. I just don't want any misunderstandings.

lol - ive never really understood why people get so brushed up over your posts dude - the disclaimer gave me a little giggle, though :D

These bugs sound horrible! Im almost GLAD i dont have access to the game for now...seems like a whole bunch of code got broken in the update? Its unfortunate - i can imagine that after working so hard on something, only to see it get slandered because its mysteriously fallen apart would be pretty gutting...

im sure SL are definitely diving headfirst into this one, if there seems to be this much trouble.

RedScar - im sure that 99% of the problems are glitches, rather than changes - hasn't Colin already said there were no changes? im sure i read that somewhere.

[blackwiggle]

I messaged somebody yesterday,I think it was Guggle or it might of been Yeldar.

Anyway,I'm not sure if what we are seeing now regarding so called glitches,might in fact be some sort of code leak through that was in the update,but is actually meant for the up coming DLC .

The ships might be picking up code that is meant for new craft that do not yet exist in the game,likewise for the snowed out appearance that has occurred, that apart from Elhabib and myself nobody else seems to have happened to,this could be caused by a "changing weather" code that again not presently supposed to be implemented in the game.

Just something to ponder

[RedScar]

Well im all for SL releasing the promised DLC, but I would rather the problems that 1.3 have created be fixed first.
Sheesh, its the day of bad patches, first 1.3 in WOHD then 3.1 in WoW

[djKyoto]

Actually have a bit of a beef now.

It's not just the dead weapon pads (at least one or two per race), but running over ones that are working, getting the little 'weapon/pickup acquired sound', but receiving no weapon whatsoever. :|

[kanar]

Ok. I'm absolutely not the kind of guy who likes to complain about everything. I mean, my save crashed in January, my PSN id crashed for online mode in february... Ok, no probs. But now? I don't recognize AT ALL this game online. I mean, there's no more fun at all for me. I personally don't like racing with half, or 2/3 of the weapon pads not working or worse, turned off. I don't like the American truck handling of my Icaras (7/10 in handling, just to be clear). When I'm pushing the airbrakes, I'm waiting for a response of my ship. When I'm pushing left-right-left, I want a BR (in a BR/on race). Connavar, if I have to make left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right to do it, I say no way. Last night on Astral I had the feeling to fight against the game itself, more than against the other pilots. When you're racing aces, there's no place for handling or weapons hazard. I needed perfect racing conditions to compete with Greenix, Asa, Yeldar, G-S, Nyctalopian and so on. I haven't the skills to handle a race in these conditions. I see no point AT ALL to adapt to this s**t. I lived awesome moments with you guys online. I spent entire week-ends enjoying great fights. I don't feel that anymore. I've never played the lottery, I won't begin today.

[IH8YOU]

Kanar - I agree with that entire post... Sadly. :|

[yeldar2097]

Yeah me too. I'm not sure what it is that causes the problem but recreating the server seems to work pretty much evey time.

@kanar: it was sad that you felt you couldn't race, the first tournament became ridiculous. 0 weapons in races 6-11 for me. After round 1 was done I asked nycta to restart the server (create a new one etc...) and everything was perfect :D. I think next time we should have a chat box open so if everyone agrees that the weapons/BRs aren't working then we can remake the server and pick up where we left off (record the points from the races so far blah blah....) I hope it's better for you next time :P

[Paul Tweedle]

Hi everyone, I'm Paul Tweedle one of the Producer's from Studio Liverpool and I worked with the team on the V1.30 Online Ranking patch. Anyone who has enjoyed any of the previous Wipeout games on any format should recognise my name.

I thought I had better chime in here to address the most pertinient of "complaints". There are a lot of contradictory reports about the ship handling and weapon distributions having changed. Some of you are convinced we've monkeyed around with everything and some of you are noticing no change at all. Well I can confirm to you all that we have made absolutely NO CHANGES whatsoever to either the handling or weapon distributions. I have spoken to the team this morning to confirm that this is definitely true and it is. The V1.30 patch did not contain any data relating to either ship stats or weapon pick-ups. One user suggested we have used this patch to "level the playing field" among Wipeout HD players but we, like you, are perfectly happy with the gameplay in HD and would be crazy to mess around with it at this stage. We love playing it too remember.

I also want to assure you we do listen and, as Colin has said in another thread, it is not normally the team's job to directly communicate with the fans but, for Wipeoutzone.com, we make exceptions, because we understand and appreciate how important you guys are to this game franchise.

I'll keep an eye on this thread for a while.

Hope this message has put your minds at ease and you can get back to enjoying your racing, thanks for playing,

Paul.

[kanar]

First, thank you a lot for this input. But I'm not crazy. I hate myself such things as polemics. So I would say : Ok. So ALL my issues are probably due to my awful PING. I have some Leungbok's ghosts to hunt anyway, & a great mode named zone to play.

my apologies to SL for my cruel words.

[blackwiggle]

Thanks for your reply Paul.

We are defiantly not imagining the change in gameplay that is appearing whilst online,both of the craft handling and particularly the even increasing number of races with non functioning weapons pads,the distribution of weapon pick up and the persistent glitches.

The glitches we put down to the spectator mode and the ability of players to join their friends while they are still racing.

But the other problems since the upgrade are obviously happening otherwise you would not be seeing such a response from the players.

Since you say these were not intentionally changed,why are they happening?

[rdmx]

Just as a little off hand thing, http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92154&postcount=158
Remember this little gem? :P
Anyway, if you check the fusion manual, Paul Tweedle is torlporl :)

[leungbok]

Hi Paul, great to see some of the devs coming here to bring some lights on our shadows :)
But about the enhanced time of surviving of the mines, and the rockets more powerfull ? Is this due to lag ? And the impossibility of succeeding on br sometimes (not always fortunately ^^). Is it possible that the spectator mode could cause lag and alter those moves ?

[NeilSmith]

I'm glad we finally got an official response to the ship handling issue. I myself haven't noticed any change at all to my 2 babies (Assegai & Icarus). I have however noticed increasing occurances of broken weapon pads, 1 second lags and black screens (for 3-4 seconds). I hope these are issues that are looked into as they can totally alter the outcome of a race.

[KIGO1987]

Interesting intel there. Thanks Paul, at least we have some answers now.

Dead weapons pads are still an issue though, especially that left handside one first coming on that mag strip, on Moa Therma Forward and Reverse.

[blackwiggle]

That one works,just not for the first person that runs over it.

I've been missiled after running over it first and getting nothing,then the second player gets you before you manage to make it to the double speed/weapon pads heading onto the mag strip straight.

[Asayyeah]

Hi Paul and thx for the input cause honestly i thought i was becoming mad , i was he only one with El Habib and few others to have noticed no changes in the handling of the ships.
Of course we are suffering from slowdowns more often than it was before 1.30 but yeah maybe that is due to the new spectator mode or maybe Sony servers are getting busy with numerous of online HD sessions ( can't beleive to see all those new pilots coming from nowwhere and having fun with HD : great point for the subsistance of Wipeout's franchise.)

Anyway for me 1.30 is a massive step ahead for all it brings and yeah unfortunately there's also bugs but nobodies is perfect and we know you are working to let us have a fantastic online experience : Thx again for this, Paul and all guys from SL :clap

Say a french ' Bonjour' to Nick B. from me ;) , we would appreciate very much if he can post here again especially to reveal us the new secrets for future wipeouts ( héhé at least i tried :D )

[djKyoto]

See, I thought I was right about the handling changes, felt no different post-patch from pre-patch. :P

But then I've only being using AG-S, the finest ship of them all, no patch could upset its Craftsmanship. ;) (no pun intended)

[kanar]

See, I thought I was right about the handling changes, felt no different post-patch from pre-patch. :P

Sure mate, I was a complete moron to imagine such things. And you know what? I'm seeing dead people right now. Ok I'm out of here. As I said, I don't want to continue such polemics. So please don't tease me.

sorry kyoto, I'm really p****d off right now. I've nothing against you.

[Paul Tweedle]

Ah yes I remember that. That "torlporl" is an impostor.

[silverfoxy]

Hi Paul, thanks for stopping by and clarifying the situation.

Personally, the only changes I've noticed online is the lag and glitches and the odd weapon pad missing. Sure these can be ironed out over time though.

I can't really say if the handling is much different as I wasn't playing online at phantom speed very often before the update so I can't really remember to compare. However, from the passion and intensity of a lot of the posts on here I'm not going to argue with those guys as they are more experienced than me.

On Zone I have noticed that the handling is different. Was this intentional do you know to enable more people to get Zone Zeus trophy ?? Personally, I'm finding it easier to get to higher Zones than before but finding it harder to do Perfect Zones and laps as the handling seems a little "wooly" on the early Zones (up to Super Phantom).

Still, I think its very kind of you to join up and explain the situation to us on here. Thanks.

[djKyoto]

f**k sorry kyoto, I'm really p****d off right now. I've nothing against you.

Well as I said I have only used the one said ship, so I would have had no idea if any of the other teams handling characteristics had changed, so yeah.

It was just a light hearted comment, wasn't pin-pointed at anyone, so don't worry about it.

[stinkleroy]

Whether it was intended or not the handling has changed fror SOME OF US. It is interchangable and sometimes is not an issue...but other times my ship (AG systems) feels like I'm steering a monster truck. Just because you have not experienced this personally, doesn't mean it isn't happening to SOME PEOPLE. I personally haven't experienced any of the freezing whilst loading issues that people are talking about but I just accept the fact that it's happening indiscriminately, because people from this site tell me so. Why can't people give this the same kind of thought? Just because it's not happening to you, doesn't mean it's not happening.

[blackwiggle]

Lucky optimists Stinkleroy ;)

[klax75]

I've noticed since the patch some weird bouncing. I was in a 20 lap race with Blackwiggle, running perfectly fine, I was in the lead, yet I take the exact same line I had been running for the whole race, on lap 18 right before the A. Pass bridge, I bounce off the track. :( When I didn't do anything different, going on the same racing line.

On thing I think should be changed. I did 4 races in a row a couple days ago, where I was racing someone I was winning, then on the last lap they leave. So I don't get credit at all for anything. They were 10 lap races. I think there should be something if there is only 1 or 2 laps left, and your opponents leave you still get credit for the race win.

[AG-wolf]

nah, can't do that, because some full races are decided entirely in the last 1 or 2 laps.

[infoxicated]

Just as a little off hand thing, http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92154&postcount=158
Remember this little gem? :P
Anyway, if you check the fusion manual, Paul Tweedle is torlporl :)
Not in that case it wasn't - t'was in imposter pretending to be the big man, who then disappeared when I challenged him on his identity.

[KGB]

Not sure if has anything to do with the update or not, as i have been having problems for a while, but the countdown seems screwed to me. Where before it was in perfect sync now it is all over the place. The beeps are not in time with the 3...2...1... Go! resulting in me not getting a fast start. I wonder if i re-install the game, would it fix it???

I'm afraid I also think the ships handling has changed, though i think the AG is very twitchy. Other members have reported it the opposite so god knows what's going on.

Is there any word on these problems getting fixed as I'm now in the frame of mind that the online (the only bit i care about) game's shot to pieces.

[CaptainWipeout]

In reply to my own last rant.......................The problems with the ships handling have resolved themselves and I think it was down to lag - there's tonnes of lag in the game at the moment.

The same bugs that everyone is having problems with still apply.

P.S. I'm racing under a different name these days anyway.

[SaturnReturn]

Interesting intel there. Thanks Paul, at least we have some answers now.

Really? I'm sure everyone appreciates official input from anyone who has worked on the game. But all it does for me is raise more questions. Some will see this as more of a worry because they now know there's nothing that can be done about it.


Hope this message has put your minds at ease and you can get back to enjoying your racing, thanks for playing,

Paul.

As I say above, I fear your input Paul, while given with the best intentions, will probably have the opposite effect for many.

I'm pretty sure now though that it's mostly lag. As kanar says, a more suitable connection for gaming would improve things. Sadly for some of us our broadband connection is out of our control. It's a shame as before my connection seemed reasonably adequate, whereas now it's clearly just not.

Anyway, there is still fun to be had, even if good online games are rarer now for some of us. There are also challenges, such as trying out 1st person view. You'll realise just what a legend Asa is when you try that out. I'm hoping to start up an Avalon offline event soon too so hopefully that'll be an added element of the offline game for folks to look forward to, and may even appeal to some a bit more than the normal speed lap/TT tables. No doubt many who feel screwed over, like I did, will come back to the game when they start to miss racing other WOZoners, like I did (and very quickly I might add).

For the moment there are still a lot of issues that need sorting out. If offline issues (messed up ghosts, the fact that people's data gets screwed or they have to completely delete it just to play the game) get some attention too then that would be good. If they can be fixed or there is advice on how to prevent them happening then that would be great.

[Darkdrium777]

I've been having the same ghost "slow starts" as leungbok I think. I would start the race, the timer for the record I set started immediately but the ghost starts like one second later.

I also have the Goteki-Icaras problem I described earlier, when my Icaras racing line is followed by a Goteki ship model. I have that on at least two tracks.

It's not complaining, the game still works for me (I can set records, do BRs, etc.), but its still showing that it's not 100% stable with these glitches in it. ;)

[micky1984]

id agree with lag being the major issue, my handling in phantom for the as-gsystems has felt so slugish sumtimes i had to check i wasnt racing in rapier. But when this happens i also notice major delays in the weapons pads, which leads me to think its lag. Most the time the handling is fine tho for me and for the most part im enjoying the patch, my only issue is when it jumps a frame or two. Iv had about three races destroyed by my ship flying of the track (and yes it was on sol2)

[blackwiggle]

The thing is , this lag problem never existed to the extent it does now, and what relatively few lag related problems we had before certainly didn't effect so many different aspects of the game and to so many people as it does now.

The whole wipeout community has not gone and changed their internet connections ,SL says that they have not changed anything that should/would effect the game.

So what's causing the lag ?

Don't tell me,let me guess,.....Spectator Mode.

You can't blame the 2.70 PS3 update because the game was working online with that,and without these problems.

[CaptainWipeout]

Blackwiggle - I agree entirely with you. I believe it's spectator mode and to be honest, I'd just get rid of it. But - what IS useful is being able to join a game whilst the game is in progress.

[burt_ie]

I have been getting lag since the new update too...the games suddenly "jumps" a little a few times per race. Never happened before the new patch. I thought it might be the spectator mode.

[NeilSmith]

blackwiggle has a point, these problems didn't occur all that often pre-2.70 firmware or the 1.30 patch. Now I can't do a single race without either broken weapon pads or hang-ups. I'd go with CaptainWipeout's suggestion, remove spectator mode, but allow people to join games or better yet, fix it! :)

[blackwiggle]

People joining games is part of the problem as well unfortunately,that's when you get the glitches.

Pity, as it was a good concept but it's ruining the gameplay.

Say your having a tournament,5 places filled,you start the tournament.
Somebody tries to join the game just after it starts [glitch] if they go into spectator mode [glitch] leave spectator mode [glitch] decide that they are not going to wait till the end of the tournament to join, so quit it [glitch].

You seldom get just one glitch in a game ,if you do,you can guarantee that there will be another player in the field upon the next races start, that has waited for the next race without going into Spectator mode.

If you have that happen with a few people doing this ,well your tournament is shot.

Actually,we could organize a controlled test to see if this is the cause.

If it is found to be the cause [which I'm 75% sure it will be] I might have a possible solution,it would invole SL ditching some aspects of Spectator mode and changing the information that is show on the board,basically to stop people unwittingly causing problems with the game already in play.

[TorquedSoul]

Another way to test the "join" bug is to run races in a full room and see if the problems still continue.

I'm sure you can get 8 volunteers in a friend only room to test the theory. No one can join when a room is full.

[CaptainWipeout]

I agree. Would love to hear others opinions on it.

I've lost so many places in a race to these glitches which defeats the object and enjoyment of Wipeout. It's still a great game, I just hope that something will be done soon to sort it.

[LOUDandPROUD]

I completely agree with Blackwiggle (Post # 181)! The lag issues are ridiculous now. Many broken weapon pads in all my races earlier!

[blackwiggle]

After further thought I'm not sure that having a full room would make it impervious to glitches ,reason being that people are still going to "attempt " to enter that room while not knowing it is full,simply by pressing the triangle "join race "option when they see a friend is online from the little rectangular box on the bottom right of the screen.

Maybe just this attempt might be causing glitches.

You could test a partially full room ,have your friends race and you go in and out of joining the room while it is in progress,and use the spectator option and quit it,also use the triangle button option as described above.

Count how many times you did this entering/leaving/spectator etc
Then those who were racing could report how many glitches happened and what they were during the race.

Not a pleasant experience I imagine for those racing,but we might get some sort of correlation between glitches in race with actions by others accessing it in various modes.

[AG-wolf]

Well let's just hope some of the Powers That Be over at SL are keeping tabs on this thread and the ones like it so they're aware of the specific observations people have all had.

I know Paul Tweedle himself reiterated the fact that they don't make a point of having a lot of direct contact with their audience (though if you ask me, I think it makes consumers have a little more respect and appreciation of the people they're throwing their money at if they are actually tangible, accessible human beings as opposed to mysterious entities shrouded by a company name), but maybe all of this nonsense will encourage them to consider the possibility that something is wrong somewhere along the line. There can't be this large number of people all experiencing issues when nothing has changed except whatever the v1.30 update brought, unless it's just something unforeseen.

And the User Interface still needs to be made more streamlined, intuitive, accessible.

[Lion]

I've found a temporary workaround for those of us who are mid-rear pack runners to the problem of being mired in swarms of mines:
Don't play against wipeoutzone pilots
Today is the first time I have had FUN in this game since the patch, and it was because I was able to stay in the front half of the grid in about at least half my races. This left me a lot less mines to plough through.

[yeldar2097]

Very true Lion, I have serius issues when I'm up against the big boys because I inevitably end up drowning in a sea of mines :(
Thing is, if I'm leading the pack I lose the lead, it's very often because the person in last place has a compulsion to lay mines/bombs everywhere even though they aren't competing with anybody behind them...:bomb
PLEASE STOP LAYING MINES IF YOU'RE LAST! :(

Weapon pads: Create a new game. Problem solved (worked 100% of the time for me so far :)) :D

[Echthroi]

Just because you have not experienced this personally, doesn't mean it isn't happening to SOME PEOPLE.


Exactly. I've heard that people have had tons of bugs when playing through Wipeout Pulse, and I personally never encountered anything too serious. o_0

[KGB]

It would be nice for one of the Dev's to acknowledge the other issues we are having. The non BR's, the freezing and non weapon pads, This is going to be a game breaker for me unfortunately. :frown:

[LOUDandPROUD]

@ Yeldar - When I'm in last place, I'm still trying to get into first. So, if I lay mines or bombs that may slow down whoever is in first (or 2nd or 3rd and so on), that can only help me in my quest, even if the outlook is bleak...crazy things can happen in WO. So, I will continue to lay mines if I'm in last. I never give up!

[KIGO1987]

I got ****ed over bad in a race where i was in lead from Greenix on Moa Therma reverse by 5seconds until i came directly into the last man's mines, two rows of the bastards on both of the double triple speed pad on the second mag strip. As typical side shifting did more than **** me over, but it made me take nearly all of the mines sets, kinda like a bowling ball and a set of pins and getting a spare. This followed by the ship coming to a halt and not ACCELERATING til 6 seconds later when it didnt really matter, since i got ****ed over bad and lost the race:(

[Darkdrium777]

The ghost saving is totally and utterly broken.

Here are the issues I have experienced so far:

-ghost does not match record at all
-ghost starts to race one second after the race starts (happens all the time on the first race I do just after setting a record time)
-ghost skips ahead two seconds at the start of the race (looks like he is teleporting), it matches the record's line but it's two seconds ahead of the timer
-ghost ship model does not match the ship the record was set with, this shows up on all the records I have set so far

[RedScar]

I don't know if its a PSN issue but SOCOM Confrontations suffers from a similar tiny lag spike when a new person joins the lobby. The issue in SOCOM has persisted since the game has come out dispite every patch containing notes on the issue claiming its be solved. I can't say I'm a fan of Slant 6's work with the patches, they seem to break more then fix half the time, but I trust SL since the original game was very solid.

I am all for removing the spector option, since due the the lag issues the game suffers from the spector will rarly be able to watch a race in its true form along with the fact that they themselve create a tiny lag spike.
Glad to see the devs listening in to the fans.

my 2 cents

[Connavar]

Yeah sometimes the slower player can become very annoying, on one time on
Ubermall Rev where I had 5-6 seconds lead (10 laps race), he would hit me with
3 missiles on the last lap!!!
Then obviously my ship goes to a complete stop thanks to the new
overpowered annoying missiles, and then game over, missile + quake on me.

And another time, a 20 laps race, the last player would always mines, bomb,
missile me, took me 3 laps to overtake him.

[RedScar]

^
Those sound more just like bad luck rather then a problem. I've had that happen to me many times.

[SaturnReturn]

I'd just like to echo Darkdrium777's points. Ghosts are messed up. I've had 3 out of 4 of those issues on multiple ghosts. This is something a few of us have experienced now and it definitely needs to be added to the list of issues that need fixing. Some people don't like ghosts but Speed Lap and Time Trial are nothing for me without them as I find it more fun racing against myself than the clock.

[KGB]

I thought that when the screen froze it affected all players at the same time. After a race last night on Anulpha pass however when i was in the lead my screen froze, when it unfroze the whole pack flew past me. putting me into last place. :frown:

Yours, disgruntled from Cumbria :frown::frown::frown:

[stinkleroy]

KGB I think individual glitches might be caused by someone switching to watch you in spectate mode. It's happened to me dozens of times, gone from first to last instantly. I was behind you on Vin K last night and actually saw your ship jump backwards a second or so. Its a nightmare :s

[SaturnReturn]

It's happened to me both ways round. Last night I was behind a couple of racers. There was a glitch and I saw it myself. But I was able to keep going whereas they both dropped back instantly. I assume they must have got a worse glitch than I did. Either that or they just got more confused.

[Soccermom]

It seems WO servers are offline at the moment.
Here is me (being a super optimist) hoping for a major server update that will solve every conceivable online problems :xtree

[blackwiggle]

Unfortunately it's not just the SL servers that are down.

Try using web browsing via your PS3 and you will see that isn't working either.

Easter Holiday overload I think

Oh well,guess I'll have to watch the new X-Men Wolverine movie again.:frown:

[silverfoxy]

I thought it was my ROUTER not letting me onto Online. Fingers crossed for glitch fixing

[yeldar2097]

the glitching really ****s me off. stop watching our races you cretins :P
having said that, it does help me keep up with the people in front ;)

[Hellfire_WZ]

http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=419&thread.id=89090

Servers will be back online at 16:00 GMT

[AmigoJack]

http://community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/message?board.id=419&thread.id=89090

Servers will be back online at 16:00 GMTThx :) I already wondered why I couldn't get online to HD after the update surprised me today.

I've read the first 5 pages of this thread - seems that most racers don't like the patch :/ Although I always wish to have an "uninstall patch"-option I also understand to which problems this possibility might head...

[LOUDandPROUD]

Try using web browsing via your PS3 and you will see that isn't working either.

That was the first thing I tried when I couldn't connect this morning, but my browser was working just fine...

[adorno]

There are two different issues since 1.30.

i.) glitches: can't agree more that these need fixing asap. The 'mini-freeze' issue is deeply irritating, and they should disable spectator mode until they sort it. Likewise the lobby not showing which races are in progress and which are pending. It is a real pain having manually to run repeatedly through each race to see if any are running or pending - just give us the option to order by 'in progress/not in progress' or highlight those 'in progress' in some way!

ii.) The rest is more subjective. How do you make the game accessible to newcomers, so that they aren't put off by racing against those of us with 100s+ races under our belts, and yet fair to those of us with 100s+ races under our belts. For my money, the balance should be such that the best players will always come out on top over the run of an 8-12 race tournament; but that anyone will have a chance in any individual race. I think the game pretty much does this.

My main gripe remains the same with 1.30 as with pre-1.30. Too much depends on the start. Break from the pack in the opening stretch or lap and a good player will win 8 or 9 times out of 10. A bit like Formula 1 really, but I'm not sure how one would ever counter this - possibly disabling boost starts or disabling weapon pick-ups for the first lap or section of the opening lap? Still, amid all the moaning, the 'pure' racers can simply disable weapon pads, can't they!

[CaptainWipeout]

Adorno - I don't agree with you about the racing. It's a racing/skill game and if you're better 9 times out of 10 you'll win and that's what it's all about as far as I'm concerned and that's the way it should stay. Let's not turn the game into some kind of left wing socialist type of racing. The better racer wins and should always win - however it doesn't ALWAYS turn out like that. If you're not up to the speed of Rapier or Phantom - don't race it. I'm not up to the speed of Phantom, so I don't race it. I tend to race Rapier as that's my forte and 9 times out of 10 I win.


I'm I bit nonplussed about this ranking system as well. I started from scratch again and when I was only rank 1, I was beating people of rank 26 consistently, so I don't see much point at all in this ranking system unless I've completely missed something, because it seems that if you spend all day online, you'll eventually get your rank anyway even if you're :turd

The glitches MUST be sorted. SL have basically broken their own game.

[KGB]

That about sums it up Captainwipeout. SL have totally destroyed their own game, I have said before, why could they of not tested this more throughly before making it public. It would of been nice for them to acknowledge these problems.

[CaptainWipeout]

I'm actually wondering KGB whether this IS in fact THE test for the game. I wonder if there's actually no way that it can be tested until it's actually 'out there' being used in 'the field' so to speak.

So hopefully they are taking note and at least sort out the stutters because that in itself is a race breaker and it's probably this that is annoying people the most.

I LoVe my Wipeout but it's broke:(:(

[RedScar]

Wow, I wouldn't have gone that far and said they have destroyed their game. More like had a fender bender, since all of this is fixable. Its easy for us as fan to sit back and say "oh SL is horrible, they didn't do a beta or anything" but for a developer it is very difficult to do such things. You have to have it ready, setup a mechanism that allows only certain user to dl it, leave the beta in that small group of fans hands for a time period where they flesh out all the problems, fix them, and then release it to the small group again for a second beta to make sure everything is good before making the patch all pretty and releasing it to everyone. That takes time and money.

Like I said before, have faith and some patience ppl, SL is a good developer and will fix this.
Also, incase you had any idea otherwise, rank in video game has nothing to do with actual skill at the game, it has to do solely as a measure of time that one has put into the game. If the top rank was only abtainable for the top 5% of the game, those who aren't would just give up and stop playing since they would see no point since they can't get all the toys.

[CaptainWipeout]

That's exactly what I meant in my second post on this page Redscar. I completely respect what SL are up against. BUT lots of people are consistently losing games solely because of these glitches which defeats the object of racing.

Thanks for clearing up the rank structure - I didn't really understand the point of it.

[KGB]

As far as I know they are saying there is no problem, the only thing that was addressed were the ships stats not changing.

'Destroyed' is maybe going over the top, but they have turned a 330hr player into an extremely frustrated Non BR, Screen freezing, lagged up mess.

[adorno]

I agree, Captain, that the 'better' racer should normally win. And there is no excuse for glitches (the 'mini-freezes' or 'false starts') preventing this.

But is this chess or poker? What I mean is that in chess there is truly no luck as such, no arbitrary factor - and Wipeout, with weapon pads off, is essentially equivalent to this (pure skill, mitigated only by the skill of one's opponents), but to be honest a little dull; but as soon as soon as you accept the weapons, then, by definition, you introduce an element of luck, since these are random. So what I meant to say was that the better player will, despite that element of luck, always come out on top over an 8-12 race tournament. This is what makes it interesting, really - those split-second subtle judgements (do I absorb in order to buy an extra barrel-roll or gamble on getting in range to use the weapon; do I wait and try and take the leader off the track (e.g. Anulpha fly-over or Sol 2) or fire now etc etc).

But I still return to my original point: 80-90% of the races I run are decided, for me, in the opening half a lap; if I get clear I rarely get caught, bar a fluke missile or a run into lapped mines; if I get rammed or hit in the pack early-doors (coming from last on the grid) and a decent player gets away, I've no real chance of catching.

Then again, I have them all, GTA4, MSG4, KZ2, R2 etc... and I've still played Wipeout more than any other, and keep coming back! Here's hoping they patch the patch...

[AmigoJack]

80-90% of the races I run are decided, for me, in the opening half a lap; if I get clear I rarely get caught, bar a fluke missile or a run into lapped mines; if I get rammed or hit in the pack early-doors (coming from last on the grid) and a decent player gets away, I've no real chance of catching.Same here. And it's obvious - you are (not) rambling with the other contenders, do (not) have to share the pads, got (no) impact from a bomb explosion which you never triggered... all this improves your lead or cuts more and more of your chances to take the lead.

Then - what could be done to avoid this? How to beat the best? By learning the track design, knowing the perfect racing line, discovering shortcuts, efficient barrel rolls, gaining experience by practising again and again, trying another craft which might fit better your needs and on? Like the best did? I guess yes - and that also made them the best. Also the weapons are well-balanced - we have bombs and mines for people behind us - and missiles and quakes for people in front of us. We have also turbos and autopilots to catch up. All in all it's quite ok.

It's the old problem of every online game - like 3D shooters or else also: there are simply gamers out there who are (a lot) better than others. In Q3A you can give handicaps, resulting in having less health than others. So weapon impacts have more chances to kill you in one hit. Hence, this is also throwing up new problems: you rarily manage to make your way from one base to the other.

Btw: has anyone noticed the small improvements of v.1.30?

The progress bar while loading the race is now a true progress bar (when it's full, it's done)
In the main menu your online friends are listed (if you're already connected)
Game result screens are more informative: overall points and all tracks of the tournament / podium of best three contenders
Plus: I really like the new icons (ok, you have to learn them - but they give you more info) and also the idea of collecting plaques. Maybe I'm not very pissed because my savedata remained intact. But after reading all this I swear to backup it next time ;)

[Motorsagmannen]

ok, during the last nordic session, we discovered that the game didnt freeze once. this lead to the conclusion that freezes are because of people joining in midrace. the way to counter this is simply turn game into invite only right before you start the race, it works for me at least. its a bit tedious but its worth it to stop the freezing

[blackwiggle]

Was everybody that was in the room at the time on your friends list?

I'm just wondering if you did that in a normal situation that people that weren't might get ejected.

[Motorsagmannen]

when i tried it out after the NS. i raced with both friends and strangers, no kick outs as far as i could tell. invite only means that no new racers can join without an invitation. if you just set it back to public after the race new peeps can join to. just remember to put it back to invite only before each race starts

[blackwiggle]

Great find.:+

I'll use that all the time now.

This will certainly be great news for Kanar and AVALON as a whole

[SaturnReturn]

Indeed. If this is the case then it is great advice. Thanks Motorsagmannen.

[kanar]

lol Blackwiggle, We'll do that way. Nice find Motorsagmannen!

[JJPAP]

Yeah, you´re absolutely right, Motorsagmannen. No one seemed to encounter any micro freezes during thursday´s Nordic Sessions - as far as I´ve heard, that is.
Nice trick, MSM, turning a public race into an invitational :+. Hadn´t thought about that.
Concerning pads working/not working: It´s harder to discover than the frezees, but again my feeling is that they were working allright, no really suspicious pad-behaviour as far as I remember.
BR´s seemed to work as supposed as well.
To me, there´s no doubt that it´s worth investigating (hint SL :?) what Spectator Mode does to the functionality of the game!

[Feisar31]

I have been trying to think of what SL could do to fix the patch problems, given that I seriously doubt they would roll back any changes they have made (spectator mode, joining races in progress). Motorsagmannen's idea made me think of one possible solution: add another option under Opponents (in addition to Public, Friends-only, and Invite-only) that allowed you to host a Public game using the old behavior: no spectator mode, no joining a race in progress, and no glitches. :g That way people could choose what was more important to them—playing without glitches, or allowing people to join and spectate mid-race.

Ideally, SL would have used the centralized lobby server to handle the players joining races in progress, so that the players wouldn't actually join a room until the race was over. Instead, the server would put them on a waitlist for that room (if there were slots available); that way there wouldn't need to be any communication with the host, unless someone chose to spectate. There would be some issues to work out with that, but the current system isn't exactly perfect either: you can't see if people have joined a race in progress to fill up a room—since the player count doesn't change—so you can still get errors trying to join games that appear to have slots available.

My 2 cents. ;)

[CaptainWipeout]

Feisar - your proposal for a game with glitches and one without would in effect mean that SL would be admitting that there is a problem and I don't think that they will admit that there is a problem. It's not commercially viable to do that.

[darkfaerytales]

Anyway,I'm not sure if what we are seeing now regarding so called glitches,might in fact be some sort of code leak through that was in the update,but is actually meant for the up coming DLC .

The ships might be picking up code that is meant for new craft that do not yet exist in the game,likewise for the snowed out appearance that has occurred, that apart from Elhabib and myself nobody else seems to have happened to,this could be caused by a "changing weather" code that again not presently supposed to be implemented in the game.



do you think this is really possible? :beer:D

in this case I HOPE!

[blackwiggle]

That was an initial thought ,I no longer think that is correct, since after the further experiences of others here, we have come to the general conclusion that spectator mode has been causing these changes .

[darkfaerytales]

and what was exatly this " snowed out appereance " phenomenon that you talking about?

[blackwiggle]

It was like a thick mist/fog that came over the tracks ,it's only happened twice to me,and apart from elhabib nobody else has mentioned it.
It wasn't just on specific parts of the track,it effected the whole scene
It wasn't too bad on Sebenco because the track is dark and you can still see it.
But on Ubermall,because of the already greyness of the track,it was very hard to see,I kept hitting the wall because of it

[crawdad62]

I've noticed the whiteout a few times. I've not really thought about it much but I think I've notice it right before (and possibly during) a momentary freeze that I've gotten from time to time.

[blackwiggle]

Well I tried applying the friends filter to stop the glitches,it didn't work.

Not only that,but I left the friends filter on had a glitch FULL race and arrived back in the lobby with 2 new players waiting [yes I am positive the friends filter WAS applied]

I don't know WTF is going on with online ,but that last 10 race session had every glitch ,lag,craft handling and BR problem that have been mentioned in this thread.
Plus my console froze whilst loading the first race.
It's stuffed up pretty badly.:turd:-:(

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET RID OF SPECTATOR MODE !!!!

[Lance]

Since so many people actually want spectator mode, it seems clear that it would be better to fix it than just throw it out, yes?

[SaturnReturn]

I think yes. But they'd have to do more than fix the glitching for those in the game. When using the mode to view a race it doesn't look good at all so really it would need a massive overhaul to be of any use.

[stinkleroy]

Saturn is right, spectate mode does not look good at all. Even if it was glitch free I doubt I'd use it as it's not at all representative of what's actually happening in the race.

[blackwiggle]

Do so many people actually want spectator mode?

They might want the ability to join races,but the ability to watch them whilst in progress I think could be dropped without many complaints.
But them again,I don't think just dropping that feature would fix things.
It's the players joining that are causing the problems.

After my last post I did have a session of relatively glitch free races,mind you,I was hosting and there was a full field for nearly all of the races.[no friends filter applied,didn't see much point,as even that seems to not be working properly]
But then my racing session finished for the night when ,yet again my console froze whilst loading a game.:brickwall

This is so frustrating

[SaturnReturn]

I've barely played online in the last few nights. I've been doing speed lap and time trial but now my ghosts mess up every time. I've now also had the issue Darkdrium mentioned with ghosts showing as the wrong ship. I've uploaded an example to youtube so those who don't have the issue can see what's happening. I hit the ceiling and so this is obviously a very slow time, and yet the game shows me this ghost every time now. Very frustrating indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcSatteC1Ks

[Motorsagmannen]

yes i agree this is quite a bd ghost glitch, i havent tried SL much since the patch but the few i had seemed to be correct. must investigate further.

[JABBERJAW]

I wanted to play some more before voicing any complaints, Today I played a good deal, with a variety of people from 2-8 player games. The barrel roll worked at best around 30% of the time, horrifyingly bad. One race with andybob, just behind going to the last lap, Br doesn't work on the first big jump, "cmon", Barrel roll does not work on the next turns jump, "isn't that nice", barrel roll doesn't work on the next hill, "grunts angrily", barrel roll doesn't work on the long straight at the top of the hill, "mthrfkr!", And last but not least, I get a turbo, with no chance of catching at this point, go really fing high into the air, and try between 3-5 times to no avail, "you piece of ****!". The short of the story was that a fun time was being had by all in my house today.

I could live with the pauses as annoying as they are, but the way this game plays it needs barrel rolls, doesn't feel right without them.

[Wip3ou7]

Does anyone know why I wouldnt be able to play under my main PSN name ever since the patch? I've tried playing with Wip3ou7pure on my PS3 and it wont work. When I try with a different account on the same PS3 the online works fine. Then I tried signing in with Wip3ou7pure on a different PS3 and I still get an error when connecting to WipEout HD Online! What the hell is going on... This has me very frustrated and I really want to play online with my main account. Someone please help me :(

[leungbok]

Yes Jabberjaw, particularly on sebenco F & R and chengou, those tracks are BUILT for barrel rolls ! ;)

[KGB]

I'll add my name to the ghosts being FUBAR.

I downloaded Kingheims ghost a little while ago for metropia reverse, it has now been replaced by some idiot crashing into all the walls and taking the long way round, not sure who that is. :paperbag

[stinkleroy]

Hehehe wonder who that could be? ;)

[Mu5]

I have been having a mixed experience online - really annoying when you lose out due to weapons pads not being active or BR not firing.

I was going to go back to playing SL/TT while the 'patch for the patch' comes out to fix online (is there any news of this?) - but Im not touching it now :(

[CaptainWipeout]

Wip3ou7 - You might need to do what I had to do and delete ALL of your saved date meaning that you start again from scratch.

Great eh?

[eLhabib]

No he doesn't. This issue is tied to the PSN account and has nothing to do with the savegame.

[JJPAP]

Well, it´s not really a complaint, but rather something that would optimize the lobby.
While doing an Invitational, it seems rather silly that the race will auto-start, if you´re not constantly aware, when 4 of the racers are in the lobby. The host will have a real hard time stopping the race from starting before all the invited wipers are in the lobby.
I definately think the auto-start should be disabled, when doing an Invitational :nod.