The Auricoms Challenge pilot:DJ Techno Questions/Comments

[DJ Techno]

The Arena (PDJ and RHYS thanks now I can show my skills and prove my racing ability)

My name is DJ Techno
I have been with Auricom for all four racing seasons since 1995, that's five years.
And Pirhana for two seasons since 1999, thats two years.
Total it up, it equals to seven, the same number Jeff Gordon has won in Winston Cup Nascar Championships. Now ain't sayin I'm some Jeff Gordon fan or drives like him on the racing track. No, this is what I am saying.

I have looked over the listed challenges made in the Arena and I have to say I am impressed. But weres the other places to make a challenge on, Manor Top and Vostok Island

This isn't my first open challenge to other AG Racers.
To any and everybody willing to be up for it I am putting my challenge to the players.
Ten course race, two tracks from every Wipeout game, everything goes "racing"(I don't know about cheats though)
Wipeout 2049
Wipeout 2097 (XL)
Wipeout 64
Wip3out
Wipeout Fusion

you'll have to excuse me that I can't post the courses right now
I am getting to the part where remembering race courses aren't one of my specialties.
so give me a day to look into my records and I will get back to you.

yeah, I know this is like, um, long, I came from another chat site that I just got done having a fued with, so I understand if anybody get's tired of to many words in each chat.

so I'll see yall tomarrow
8)

[DJ Techno]

The games you are going to need to use for this tournament
Wipeout (origanl) PAL or NTSC
Wipeout 2097 (XL) PAL or NTSC
Wipeout 64 PAL or NTSC
Wipeout 3 PAL or NTSC
Wipeout 3 Special Edition (this is under decision because many people in the US in particular don't have this version yet)
Wipeout Fusion PAL or NTSC

Your games and systems are based on the two global systems
PAL and NTSC, as Lance told me the two systems are completely different from each other. So if you have all PAL games or NTSC games that is fine for now.

This will be a solid single racing event, all weapoons are in effect, no cheat codes are allowed, permitted, and used. No cheats, The two racing modes that are going to be used are
Phantom
Rapier

Because Wipeout and Wipeout Fusion only go as far in speed levels as Rapier, your speed classes with cosend (go with) Phantom for 2097,64, 3, and special editon.

There are going to be ten tracks, two from
every game hand picked by me, I am going to include the special editon tracks as soon as I know what the extra racing venues are.

Your time limit. the time limit to prepare for this tournament is under decision.
three to five months starting October 3, this given time will let you prepare yourself for the intense fury of racing ten courses at high speeds and being attack by other opponents
continue this later

Auricom Headquarter East Coast division
signing off

[DJ Techno]

I am not sure who is in charge with the prizes, whether its me or somebody else, but if it is there is going to be a prize for the Gold, Silver, and Bronze winners of the tournament and I am responsible for them. Then...

I don't know how people feel about CCG cards like Dragon Ball Z, Star wars, or Lord Of the Rings. T-shirts from Kappa and Dragon Ball Z, Nike. I am thinking about throwing in CD's an Arial Tetsuo music collection by the group Fluke, Wipeout XL(2097) soundtrack, stuff like that. But I will ask around to see who I talk to about prizes.

The require ments for entering the tournament are as followed
You begin as a full career Pilot once you pick your team in the first season
F3600 league
you are to stay with that team until each new season, as we all know everyseason is different, new teams, some old team get bought or um, blown up(goteki 45).
Starting from the F3600 league you pick your team you are going to be with
Feisar
Auricom
Quirex
Ag Systems
When you have beaten the F3600 challenge you move on to the F5000 league, thats Wipeout 2097(XL) and Wipeout 64. We all know about the time when Pirhana came out, you have a choice whether you want to stay with your AG team for the next season F7200 league or move into the ranks of Pirhana. If you do, your points statis will not be changed, everything will be the same and you will be racing for the prototype team again in 2116.

When you have made it to the F7200 League, again new teams, you have a choice whether you want to stay with your team or move on to the new generation of AG Racing teams Assegai, Icarus, and Goteki 45. But we also know that the three new teams never made it past 2116, don't worry about that you will find out what happens in the final season 2160 F9000 league.


Ok lady's and gentalmenm all racers you have made it this far, the grand finally.
Ok, the F9000 league again has both new companys you can race as, samething from before and all your points stay and your name is the same. But what happened to AG Systems and Quirex? If you have followed through with the two teams through out the whole season you will be asked to stay and race for your New Company Tigron (Quirex)
Van Uber (AG Systems). The new companys EG-R, G-Tech, Xios, samething do you want to stay or become a racer for these team? Now your progression in winning through out the tournament with out changing teams will reflect on how badly these new teams won't you to race for them.

I mean is that if you have had a really poor season before the "championship league" F9000 then I am not gonna say "sorry you don't have what it takes". Its your choice whether or not you are going to be with those teams or not.
Just remember the team you start out with will be the team you are with for all seasons
unless when you get to the F5000 season and you choice to join Pirhana and you came from Auricom. Then you are with Pirhana through out the tournament.

The F7200 league's new teams Icarus, Goteki 45, and Assegai are concidered tempory teams. Because they just didn't make it into the F9000 league, so don't get up set, the last team you were with before all your stats and points are moved back into that team. Ex you were a Quirex racer and you decided to race for Icarus in the F7200 season, then the season ends because your company went bankrupt. Well you are allowed to go back to your old team no questions asked.

Message end...
time limit expired logging out
Auricom code 46588495

[Lance]

.
the creator of the challenge is responsible for supplying the prizes.

what are the victory conditions? i don't understand the scoring. you mention points, but how are points accumulated? how many points do you get for doing exactly what?

it will be interesting to see how this works out because a points system may be one of the few ways in which all of us worldwide could really measure our performances against each other.

note: i'm pretty sure already who the top pilot is [wink], but it would be interesting to see how the others rate against each other. and just how close to the top they are.
.

[DJ Techno]

Ok I am responsible for the prize as told by the ^fearless leader.
The point system as we all know the point system was used first in Wipeout then Wipeout 3 and Wipeout Fusion. It was different for each game, so my points system won't be.

The Points System
If any body is familiar with Nascar, Cart and Formula One
The Point system is to see who the top racers are and to be qualified for the Championship.
You accumilate points by winning, you still get points but they will be less and less.
Each player starts out with 1000 points
Each time you win First place you get an additional 1000 points
Each time you end up below First place... Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth...
the Additional points become less, and less. For example if you come in second place
you would orignally get 1000 for first, right...But instead you get 900 points.

See the lower your postion is after you cross the finish line, 100 points will be taken away out of that 1000 points you would normaly get.
First 1000
Second 900
Third 800
Fourth 700
etc.

[DJ Techno]

Vicrtory Conditions?

I will report about those at later time
The outcome for that is under big thought :wink:

[Lance]

.
it occurs to me that you may also have to prepare a tie-breaker. several of the wipeoutzone pilots have probably gold-medaled every race in the game series
.

[DJ Techno]

For tie breakers
since the challenge is going to be in Single Race mode
The shortest time wins
For Example
Racer X won Vostok Island in a total time of 1:58:52
but
Speed Racer won Vostok Island in a time of 1:55:02
they both got gold, but the person with the lowest time will get the Gold points
So Speed Racer will win the Vostok challenge with gold because he had a lower score time then Racer X.
The lower your time is from the beginning of the first lap to the end will determine whether you get Gold or Silver... for a tie breaker
- I think that sums it up... Maybe, but I'll check it out

[Lance]

.
number of kills is probably too difficult to keep track of. times will be sufficient.

now all you need are challengers and starting/ending dates [unless i have missed something, or rather failed to notice something missing]
.

[DJ Techno]

Starting and Ending dates
Well the tournament is going to start in, let's give it a good date so everybody can get
there things in order...
Januray 3
Three Months
that gives everybody time to train, get the games if they don't have it, train some more,
build up there skills, learn new tricks and racing strategys, etc.
And the end of the tournament will be January 31 2003
V(questions for lance from me)
Registration? I believe they have to be in before Christmas late register's are fine but they might be behind everyone else.

Challengers
if anybody wants to challenge me before the Opening
haha, fine
or if they want to practice challenge anybody on the board thats cool

[Lance]

.
registration is unnecessary. all that should be required is that the challengers' results be posted by the selected hour of the selected closing date. january is a hell of a long way off. as for what i said earlier about times being sufficient for a tiebreaker, a pure points system would mean that no one has to have all versions of the games, but merely all the basic games [ie: wipeout, 2097/xl, wo3 or wo3se, 64, and fusion.

as for other challenges, you might want to simply go for best time on a particular track in the NTSC version of one of the games, since that is what you have. if you want to prove your excellence relative to other pilots, even just one track should be sufficient to demonstrate ability.
.

[JABBERJAW]

Everyone is going to finish first on these. Maybe you should just go by times. Having piranha in there is going to mess up the results. Maybe you should just have certain tracks using specific vehicles for each track.

[Lance]

.
if we use pure times as a determinant, then the challenge would be limited to only those people who have both PAL and NTSC versions of 5 or more games in the series. how many such members are there? probably you, Al, but apart from you, are there any others? i'm trying to get DJT, or anyone else, to come up with a points system that will enable anyone with just one copy of each of the games in the series, no matter what region, to compete on an equal basis. the inability to use times to establish the top pilot is exactly what many of us have been so unhappy with since we could only determine the top pilots within any one region, but not worldwide cross-region. yeah yeah, we're trying to find the holy grail of wipeoutdom, the World Champion

if Sony would put out a dinky little demo disc worldwide with one track and one ship and a standard sampling rate for control inputs with purely clock-dependent lap timing with no influence from display framerate, then we could find out easily, but that seems unlikely to happen
.

[DJ Techno]

Everyone is going to finish first on these. Maybe you should just go by times. Having piranha in there is going to mess up the results. Maybe you should just have certain tracks using specific vehicles for each track.

Yes times will have to do,
The Pirhana craft will be no problem, I have some good experience with using the craft and racing for the team. Pilots racing for Pirhana will think there going to get the best times, but in reality they won't. Only if they know how to swiftly pass craft through the 64 version, handle and out manuever weapon fire in Wipeout 3/special edition and Fusion, and make no mistake rafing opponents without weapon in XL/2097.

I wouldn't be to worried about Pirhana pilots
I'm not, and neither should you
-take Formula One for example and team Ferrari, they have the speed but it takes a real skilled and disciplend driver to race one of those or even be apart of the team. There might be some of those pilots with that ability here today but thats what this tournament is for.

[DJ Techno]

from looking back at Wipeout, Wipeout Fusion, and Wipeout 3
aren't the points board the same in all three games?\
For both PAL and NTSC or No?

If they are then we could use those points and create the ones for Wipeout 64 and Wipeout 2097(XL)

[Lance]

.
what points? i can't speak about all the games because i don't have them all, but on wipeout, wipeout 2097/xl, and wo3, you are not awarded points for victory in single race mode; you get a medal, there are no points involved. all that the medals do is gain you extra ships and tracks. they are useless for determining the winner of a competition such as you propose because, as Al has already said, everyone will win first place on every one of the ten tracks you choose. best times will work to determine the winner of the challenge, but only within one regional version of the games [NTSC or PAL], but if you want the competition to truly determine a world's best pilot, the times cannot be compared directly to one another as the different regional versions do not exactly match in terms of the speeds of the ships and their handling characteristics and perhaps also the effect of the wall bounces. that is why i suggested a points system to determine the relative excellence of the victory within a region, so the points can be used to rate the pilots of one region against another. as i've suggested before, developing such a points system is not an easy task, and it must be invented from the ground up, as no such system currently exists, as far as i'm aware. if you can't invent such a system, you may have to be satisfied with a more limited challenge than the one you propose. so far, that is what we have all done. Thruster 2097 did create a challenge once that involved a simple online wipeout game, which allowed a worldwide equal opportunity competition, but that is not the same as playing the real wipeouts
.

[DJ Techno]

yeah thats right
the tournament in WO3 was awarded points
but the single races in WO and WOF had points and they were
the same numbers. I think

Regional point scoring
Eastern Division/ Western Division(try to make it into)=Global Division
were the points can match with both versions- will need to get some information on
the PAL version of either wipeout game and compare it with my NTSC
I know the speed for PAL is set to KPH, but everything else is unkown.

[Lance]

.
even if All versions of the game used a points system for singlerace and awarded the same number of points for first place, it doesn't matter because eVeryone [yes. everyone] will win the gold medal and would be awarded the same number of points. you need to invent a system that assumes everyone will win against the Artificial Intelligence, and award points on the basis of how well the pilot did relative to all other pilots, but not using the racetimes directly.

the difference between kph and mph does not matter. the times matter, BUT the difference between NTSC times and PAL times is not just different to the same degree for everything, but is different for every ship and every racecourse. *this has already been tested.** there is no consistent conversion factor that can be applied to convert a PAL time to the exact equivalent of an NTSC time.* this is why times alone cannot be used to determine the winner in a contest involving both regions. since you cannot use direct times, nor conversion factors, nor gold medals to determine the winner, the placings must be determined by some other sort of relative performance points. perhaps by rating the times achieved by the pilot relative to the fastest time for each race made by using the 'continuous autopilot' cheat, though this cheat may not be available on all versions of the game [which is just another of the problems in making a multi-game cross-platform challenge]

please think in detail about all these factors, then propose what you think will be a complete workable solution. if that is too time-consuming, you could always start with something simpler, both for the immediate pleasure of competing and to gain experience in running a challenge

cheers
.

[JABBERJAW]

PIRANHA times most certainly will win. All my records with piranha are significantly faster than any other ship. With assegai out of the picture, it is the best for wo3 as well except for icarus(which is also out). Anyways, I think I have a good idea of setting up a table for this which is region dependant, but will be a competition between everyone. I can either email it to you or put it up on this site, but I will need to do it tomorrow though.

[Lance]

.
region dependent? Al, we already know that you are probably the best pilot in the world on all games in the wipeout series, but the only way to prove that is with a region INdependent contest.

oh, what do you think of the idea of rating pilot performance relative to 'continuous autopilot'? it would mean that the challenge would have to be restricted to the games that have that cheat available for comparison purposes, but it might work worldwide if we rate the pilots time as a percentage of the autopilot's time. maybe?
.

[JABBERJAW]

I think we mean the same thing. I mean it is not a direct comparison between the two. Whichever one you play is the side you are on. Autopilot doesn't work because the physics are different between the two games xl-2097 or pal3 and ntsc3.

[DJ Techno]

PIRANHA times most certainly will win. All my records with piranha are significantly faster than any other ship. (Zoolander)

Pirhana times will almost certainly not, only if this was a Time trial tournament they would be no talk of losing, but this is going to be a single race and remember your being the target of the game computer and your time of winning is going to be different. So coming up first is going to be a little hard.

region dependent? Al, we already know that you are probably the best pilot in the world on all games in the wipeout series, but ...way to prove that is with a regionINdependent contest.(Lance)

Region independant contest?
I like it since everyone either has the Eastern Hemisphere PAL or the Western Hemisphere NTSC. the regions are still different and holding a contest like that will see which two sides of the world carry the best pilots, and they can then go one on one into a World Champion.

the AutoPilot weapon system should have know effect on the contest., since if a person wants to win they wouldn't need to use the AP in the first place, right.

[Lance]

.
Al: the cross-regional differences wouldn't matter would they? since what we're trying to determine is how well the pilot does relative to the autopilot, and all pilots in the particular game version [and its associated autopilot] being used, whether it's ntsc or pal or japanese ntsc, would be racing against the time set by the same continuous autopilot. the percentage difference between the player and the autopilot would be a measure of the player's excellence, which is what we're trying to find out. the cumulative average of the percentages the player achieves in all the games where continuous autopilot is available for comparison would determine the best pilot. we could at least do it in WO3, couldn't we?

i just woke up, so that increases the likelihood of there being a flaw in my logic even beyond what it is when i'm truly awake. please point out my errors

uh oh, i think i see a possible one that you didn't mention, Al, but i'll have to think about it later. i'm starvin all of a sudden. must eat breakfast to keep the 118 pounds from going lower.
.

[DJ Techno]

How the hell
I'm sorry but how could you weight 118 pounds
well unless your a female then thatanswers it, but your not
are you? -its off topic and I didn't wake up until 9 something but it's a believe or not question (118lbs)

The autopilot system theres know way we could have people to agree to not use the autopilot thats an automatic No.

There may be a way to tell the difference in time score, even though the AP is turned on, since it only last for a few three to five seconds, and your speed will drop dramaticly. It should show up on the lap time. but thats only a theory.

[Lance]

.DJTechno said:
''the AutoPilot weapon system should have know effect on the contest., since if a person wants to win they wouldn't need to use the AP in the first place, right.''

not right. read again what we said. Continuous Autopilot is a cheat that is on for the entire race so that the pilot has no control over the ship. this means that it can be used to establish a standard time to compete against. the difference between the ContinuousAutopilot time and the player's time over the same course can be calculated as a percentage. that percentage would be the points score for the race. the points scores for all races would be added together and averaged to produce the player's rating for comparison to all other pilots.
.

[DJ Techno]

ok the message above that one
I am trying to change the word I said

but the Edit/Delete won't work

[reply by Lance: my refreshed version of this page and your post shows that your edit is working]

[DJ Techno]

difference between the ContinuousAutopilot time and the player's time over the same course can be calculated as a percentage. that percentage would be the points score for the race. the points scores for all races would be added together and averaged to produce the player's rating for comparison to all other pilots.
.then can it be used ^ taking all that by the end of race and finding the percentage you will get the score of that pilots and each other pilots because they all will all be different.
of course... :-?

-Then the computer I am using is skrewing up.

[DJ Techno]

Its the computer
I tried to edit the last post still no go

But anyway I will be back I am getting ready for a Drum and Bass
party at Uncle Doctor's dance club
If there is a way to fully use this idea then let's do it.

[JABBERJAW]

Are we actually talking about arcade race times? If you want to believe you can beat anyone using qirex and they are using a piranha, that is just crazy :o . The closest any of my arcade times using a non piranha craft in xl in comparison to using the piranha is around 13 seconds(and that is on talon's reach). I like using the piranha, so I don't mind. I have a way of setting it up, but don't have time right now, but probably later tonight.

[DJ Techno]

yes we are

its crazy but its possible, fair, going to happen, and comparison the quirex ship might beat the pirhana

[JABBERJAW]

how bout a wager? any amount

[Vasudeva]

Qirex beating Pirhana in 2097/XL? That can only happen if the Pirhana pilot has fewer pilot qualities than the Qirex pilot. I don't doubt your flying qualities, DJ, but I think that beating Zoolander with a Qirex will take more than a miracle ;). Just look for "Al Sartwell" in the timetables...

Peace,
V.

[JABBERJAW]

The only thing I am saying is that with two exactly equal pilots, piranha will win every time, hands down.

[JABBERJAW]

This method is not exact because pal and ntsc people do not actually compete against each other, but may be one method to use. 5 games, 2 tracks apiece like DJ said. You choose which version you are playing on for each individual track, and base the points on that, for example 10 for first 9 for second. With this method you cannot play both versions on the same track. However if you own both versions of the same game, you could play ntsc for mega mall, and pal for manor top(so I could dodge joel :D ). This way there could be some cross competing. This partially assumes pal and ntsc players are equal(and we know us yanks are better :o :D )


The other method actually could be infinite autopilot to get the difference, but it will definitely be off somewhat due to the different ships, and wipeout xl and 2097 actually handling differently as far as flight times are concerned.

DJ you should also note that no bug respawns in fusion be allowed in this contest. I would also think that two hard fusion courses should be used because ease of getting good times in that game.


Here are my favorite courses

wipeout......silverstream.............firestar
woxl...........gare d'europa..........spilskinanke
wo64..........terafumos................velocitar
wo3............mega mall................manor top
wofusion....katmodo3................alca vexus3........or temptesh 2(hard course)

[Lance]

.
Al said: ''You choose which version you are playing on for each individual track, and base the points on that, for example 10 for first 9 for second.''

didn't you and i both say that everyone would win first place? how do we determine the winner of the challenge? or am i missing something?

[also, wouldn't the autopilot take part in the differences between xl and 2097?]
.

[JABBERJAW]

first place would mean the best time between the competitors( exp. lance,thruster,ect)
based on times for that region.

[Lance]

.
''based on times for that region''

um... call me a stubborn overanalytical smegsmeg, but:
even though i am far from the best ntsc pilot, a few of my times [in the slooooow class] on some wo3 tracks are better than either all or all but one or two of the pal pilots. though i do not for a second believe that i am a better pilot than xeik, for example. could you explain more clearly your system for finding the best relative time between regions, please? are you talking about using some sort of baseline time within a region [for each race individually, of course] to figure out the general excellence of an individual pilot's time, and then comparing this rating to the pilots from the other region?

how about us doing a test of your system by having a short competition on one racecourse with maybe 3 pilots from each region? if it works, then we can go ahead with a major 10 course, 5 game challenge, having already worked out any problems that might call into question the results of a long and time-consuming effort by many pilots
.

[Task]

You know Lance, I really like that idea of "your score is the percentage of continuous autopilot" thing. That idea might not have any place in this competition, but I'd like to see it used at some point in time. With a set of times for CA for whatever version of the game and whatever ship, I'd put some time into finding out if I would achieve roughly the same score in different versions and different ships. If so, then I could see this as a great method of platform-independant racing...
It looks to be an idea with potential.

[JABBERJAW]

it is a bit off, yes, but I think the faster classes are a little different(although I haven't looked at them for quite some time. it would look a little like this.

Phantom
SPILSKINANKE-NTSC.............................................. ..........SPILSKINANKE-PAL...........
1)lance.1:58.4..10pts............................. ...........................1)robfoxx.......2:04.5. ..10pts
2)Joel...1:59.8...9pts............................ .............................2)Thruster......2:05. 1.....9pts
3)Al......1:59.9...8pts........................... ..............................3)vasuveda....2:08.3 .....8pts

and so on(points could be changed according to how many people are in competition


Phantom
GARE D'EUROPA-NTSC.............................................. .......GARE D'EUROPA-PAL
1)joel........2:15.5....10pts..................... ..................................1)Al............ ...2:19.4....10pts
2)lance.....2:18.5......9pts...................... .................................2)robfoxx.....2:1 9.5......9pts
3)thruster.2:19.8......8pts....................... ................................3)vasuveda..2:19.6 ......8pts

This way, anyone could change formats, I will play pal on some races probably.

or infinite autopilot technique for speed.

I have these definitely that I could figure out
wipeout xl
wipeout 3

I think there is a infinite autopilot code for wipeout 64

is there one for fusion? gameshark or regular? I think there is but am not sure

there actually may be one for wipeout 1, but I may need to figure this out with a stopwatch.

Which way does everyone want to do it?

[JABBERJAW]

what is your best time on gare d'europa with auricom at phantom speed?

[Lance]

.
Al, i think your method may really work; let's give it a shot. we should probably ban PC versions of the games unless we have enough competitors who use them for there to be a real competition for first place, otherwise a solo competitor would be able to unfairly rack up ten points for every race. we probably have enough competitors to make it fair on all the console versions with the possible exception of W64. i only have one console wipeout game [wo3 ntsc], so i will just have to have spectator fun in this multigame tournament. i'm hoping we have plenty of challengers, it's been too long since we had a hot competition

i suggest that you, Al, post a new official challenge thread with the usual conditions plus your point system. also post your proposed set of courses, bearing in mind not to use only the most difficult of tracks. put a couple of moderate to easy ones in there to make the points competition potentially tighter by allowing the pilots who are not in the top 2 category a fighting chance. the potential challengers can accept your list or propose alternatives; it shouldn't be too hard to get an agreement fairly quickly for a final list.

i guess we need a title for it. mm... what about The DJTechno/ZOOLANDER International Cross-Cultural Multigame Everything Including The Kitchen Sink WipEout Racing Challenge?

Jay, i think the idea of the baseline time may be a good one; i appreciate your offer to test it out. i think it's something we should definitely try. i would love to see an international contest where we can compare performances as directly as possible, even if turns out that xeik can beat the hell out of my relative times!
:D

.

[JABBERJAW]

This is DJ techno's contest. I was just giving some options to him to use. Where has he been anyways. If I was able to figure out the time difference using autopilot, we would have to exclude certain tracks due to cutting corners being different. I would also say only psx and n64 versions allowed. no pc or saturn or amiga or mac. there are too many differences.

[Lance]

.
by pc, i meant computer of any variety. i appreciate your deferring to DJ Techno, but he seems to have disappeared; this is why i suggested that you be the one to set up the conditions based on his original idea, since he already told us to go with our ideas for set-up, and the challenge will get started that much sooner this way. i think he said that he only has computer access at school monday through friday. and yet there is no school holiday this week is there? in view of his previous high frequency of posting, i'm wondering if he's coming back to wz. let's hope he didn't become incapacitated over the weekend. i think his idea for the challenge is a good one that we ought to carry out. his original plan of waiting till january was based on the idea that everyone would have time to get both ntsc and pal versions of all wipeout games, but the system you're talking about makes that unnecessary. but maybe i'm too impatient?
.

[Wiseman]

::scratches head::

:-?

::tries to make something out of the conversation here::


Let's see, so, the challenge includes Wipeout, Wipeout XL/2097 and Wipeout 3 for the PSX, Wipeout 64 for the N64, and Wipeout Fusion for the PS2, correct?

Tracks have yet to be determined, but the only ship we will be able to use is the Auricom (since it's in all the games).

NTSC and PAL will be partially seperated by points scores, which then the 2 will compete to see who has the most points.

Points will be determined by your ranking on that praticular track in your praticular version (PAL/NTSC). For each track, 1st place PAL/NTSC will recieve 10pts, 2nd place will recieve 9pts, and so on.



So, how far off the mark am I? :lol:

[Task]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it goes like this:
In WO1 you pick your team, any one of the four.
For WOXL, you keep that team. People who suck can transfer to the Pirhana.
For WO3 you keep your team. If you transferred to the Pirhana, you're stuck with it. If you must, you can transfer team here, to Icaras, Assegai, or Goteki.
For WOF, you stick with your team if possible, transferring if you got into Icaras or Assegai or Goteki somehow.

Personally, I think that once you've chosen your team you shouldn't be able to transfer. So if you really wanna Fly Icaras, then you can only compete in the WO3 portion of the competition. Although I guess any Icaras or Goteki pilot could fly for Xios, Van-Uber, or EGr in the WOF portion of the contest. Assegai pilots would have to fly Pirhana, AG Sys pilots move into G Tech, and Qirexers become Tigrons. That would be pretty spiff.

[Wiseman]

If you ask me AG-Sys would go to EGr.

Definitely not G-Tech! Yuck! >_<

If it's like that, I'm thinking

WO - XL - 3 - 64 - WF

AG-Sys - AG-Sys - AG-Sys - AG-Sys - EGr (my path if this is how it would work)
Auricom - Auricom - Auricom - Auricom - Auricom
AG-Sys - AG-Sys - Assegai - AG-Sys - Van-Uber

I also think that using the Pirhana in XL/2097 would be kinda unfair.

[Task]

Well, I know that G Tech is a hunka junka craft, but that's what AG Sys turned into. G Tech bought them and aquired all their tech and pilots. Think of it as the price you pay for having the marvelous AG Sys in all the other games. 8 P
Also, if you wanna pilot the Xios or the EGr (the marvelous craft they are), then you'd only play WO3 and only as either Icaras or Goteki.

In my way of thinking it's: (WO1 - WOXL - WO64 - WO3 - WOF)
FEISAR - " - " - " - "
Auricom - " - " - " - "
AG Sys - " - " - " - G Tech
Qirex - " - " - " - Tigron
(na) - Pirhana - " - " - "
(na) - (na) - (na) - Assegai - Pirhana
(na) - (na) - (na) - Goteki / Icaras - Xios / EGr / Van-Uber

Anyways, this is all kinda off-track, seeing as how this is just my vision. I'm pretty sure the way he meant it was that once you had picked a team, you could only play that team or one of the new teams, you couldn't shift over to a craft you could have picked earlier and didn't. So unless you're in a FEISAR or an Auricom, he'll probably letcha fly anything you like in WOF. We'll find out once the details of this challenge solidify...

[DJ Techno]

This is DJ techno's contest. I was just giving some options to him to use. Where has he been anyways. If I was able to figure out the time difference using autopilot, we would have to exclude certain tracks due to cutting corners being different. I would also say only psx and n64 versions allowed. no pc or saturn or amiga or mac. there are too many differences.

been working out, training, working (job), enjoying my Fall Break from college, stilll doesn't have a computer at home, spent the weekend going to Rave Partys and a few other things. Planning and catching up on things.

Personally, I think that once you've chosen your team you shouldn't be able to transfer. So if you really wanna Fly Icaras, then you can only compete in the WO3 portion of the competition. Although I guess any Icaras or Goteki pilot could fly for Xios, Van-Uber, or EGr in the WOF portion of the contest. Assegai pilots would have to fly Pirhana, AG Sys pilots move into G Tech, and Qirexers become Tigrons. That would be pretty spiff.
(Task)
^ correctly spoken, and just what the idea of the challenge would go, but transfer allows pilots to stay in the game or something on the tip of my tongue?

(wiseman)
AG-Sys - AG-Sys - AG-Sys - AG-Sys - EGr (my path if this is how it would work)
Auricom - Auricom - Auricom - Auricom - Auricom
AG-Sys - AG-Sys - Assegai - AG-Sys - Van-Uber

I also think that using the Pirhana in XL/2097 would be kinda unfair.

^correct path
this is know debate for any pilot who is going to use the Fishy Squad(Pirhana)
The use of Pirhana is granted by me and whole entire staff league of the World Wipeout
Federation. Any Pilot who uses the Pirhana craft is granted access through out the tournament and when the time comes to final rounds (championship) I am going to personal race the person who makes it that far. One on One in Pirhana ships from either year 2097,2116, or 2160 any track . Why, because it won't matter who uses the Pirhana team just like Ferrari is winning the Formula 1 races "most of the time"

[DJ Techno]

I'll be back

dam classes

[Lance]

.
DJT, it's about time you got back here, there's work to be done! ;)
now that so much has been figured out, you should lay out the complete challenge conditions. as i said in a previous post, because of Al's points system, we won't have to wait till several people get both NTSC and PAL versions of the game, so we should start as soon as possible.
.

[DJ Techno]

ok

business
since you think everybody isn't going to have a problem with playing in the challenge
then I guess it would be good to move up the scheduled date for racing.
Say December or Halloween Oct. 31(well December mainly)
"I got to get a few things"
one my PS2 and N64 back from the girlfriends I let borrow
and all the games.

[DJ Techno]

I have read about other ag pilots ideas of how the point system should gois a bit off, yes, but I think the faster classes are a little different(although I haven't looked at them for quite some time. it would look a little like this.

Phantom
SPILSKINANKE-NTSC.............................................. ..........SPILSKINANKE-PAL...........
1)lance.1:58.4..10pts............................. ...........................1)robfoxx.......2:04.5. ..10pts
2)Joel...1:59.8...9pts............................ .............................2)Thruster......2:05. 1.....9pts
3)Al......1:59.9...8pts........................... ..............................3)vasuveda....2:08.3 .....8pts

and so on(points could be changed according to how many people are in competition

(ZOOLANDER)
Phantom
GARE D'EUROPA-NTSC.............................................. .......GARE D'EUROPA-PAL
1)joel........2:15.5....10pts..................... ..................................1)Al............ ...2:19.4....10pts
2)lance.....2:18.5......9pts...................... .................................2)robfoxx.....2:1 9.5......9pts
3)thruster.2:19.8......8pts....................... ................................3)vasuveda..2:19.6 ......8pts

This way, anyone could change formats, I will play pal on some races probably.

or infinite autopilot technique for speed.

I have these definitely that I could figure out
wipeout xl
wipeout 3

I kinda like but it point range is from 10 to zero it needs to be higher.

[Lance]

.
then set the points at 100, 90, etc. it will not affect the results at all, but the numbers will look more impressive. 10 races at 100 points each would make for a potential 1000 point score
.

[DJ Techno]

yep

but don't, all the wipeout games already have the autopilots weapon in them
the origanal did all the way through fusion
I don't know about the special edition

(Lance)
then set the points at 100, 90, etc. it will not affect the results at all, but the numbers will look more impressive. 10 races at 100 points each would make for a potential 1000 point score
that will work.

[DJ Techno]

.
by pc, i meant computer of any variety. i appreciate your deferring to DJ Techno, but he seems to have disappeared; this is why i suggested that you be the one to set up the conditions based on his original idea, since he already told us to go with our ideas for set-up, and the challenge will get started that much sooner this way. i think he said that he only has computer access at school monday through friday. and yet there is no school holiday this week is there? in view of his previous high frequency of posting, i'm wondering if he's coming back to wz. let's hope he didn't become incapacitated over the weekend. i think his idea for the challenge is a good one that we ought to carry out. his original plan of waiting till january was based on the idea that everyone would have time to get both ntsc and pal versions of all wipeout games, but the system you're talking about makes that unnecessary. but maybe i'm too impatient?
.

just looking back at the days I missed
I feel so appreciated that I have found a home to chat and all that
I feel like a tear coming on
ahem, back to business

oh and an answer from me about you being impatient
maybe, yes/no problaly so.

[JABBERJAW]

Are we still going to be able to choose piranha through the competition? My suggestion is non-piranha and use any ship(you just need to mention what you used) for the track if you want it to be fair. Otherwise everyone will have to choose piranha to win or do well. Example. there is no way in hell anyone is going under 2:20 on gare d'europa with a qirex.

[DJ Techno]

let me think about it and I will let
you know
tomarrow
hopefully I want to include Pirhana in the challenge because my team and the Pirhana team have a score to settle with in Wipeout 3/Special Edition

[Lance]

.
DJT, while all the games may have auto-pilot, they may not all have the ContinuousAutoPilot cheat that i suggested as a possibility for establishing reference times
.

[DJ Techno]

ZOOLANDER

yes Pirhana is a chose to play in the tournament
fair or not fair
there still a racing team and they should be aloud to be involved

Lance
the auto pilot program hopefully it will not become a problem
if there is a way to compensate for the continuous auto pilot
program being used in the wipeout games than...
there shouldn't be a problem

[Lance]

.
the continuous autopilot is not to be used in the game because it is a cheat. there is no problem. our discussion of the continuous autopilot was purely about using it to let it run the ship by itself, in a not-for-credit race, to establish a time for the competitors to race against and receive ratings points by how well they did against it. since you have chosen to use a system similar to Al's, based directly on the times shown within the game's race results, continuous autopilot plays no part at all. i repeat, it is not a problem.
.

[JABBERJAW]

I just realized I could probably do time conversions if people would like. However, certain tracks would have to be eliminated from the competion due to physics differences. The tracks that could not be used are.

wipeout= all ok

wipeout xl= talon's reach, sagarmatha, phenita park, odessa keys.

wipeout 3= porta kora

wipeout 64=all ok

wipeout fusion=all ok

wipeout 3se=only one version, people who need the ntsc conversion, contact me
alfredsartwell@hotmail.com or someone else who has this.

These tracks need to be eliminated due to better or worse track jumping techniques between the two versions. this may take me a little while to figure out, but not too long.
with this method we could have a team and a individual competition(europeans,aussies versus canadians,americans). Could be cool.

Also, this would allow people who only have one or two copies of the games to compete on the team.

[DJ Techno]

Thats some good ideas.

[DJ Techno]

this is Techno and looks like I am going to need the Wipeout 3 Special Edition NTSC version for the tournament. I have all the other games except that one.
wipeout95mlt@msn.com is my e-mail.

[infoxicated]

There is no such thing - Wipeout 3 Special Edition was a PAL only release.

[DJ Techno]

I think he has developed a way to convert the PAL version to NTSC

I know a person that has tried to copy video games
it works

But if thats not what he is doing then, well I still need the WO3 Special Edition
for my participation in the tournament.

I am not sitting back and watch everybody play
I want to get involved and kick some butt.

[JABBERJAW]

even if you don't have all the games everyone could still play, they just couldn't get points on the games they don't have. there is an pal to ntsc patch that can be downloaded and copied to the computer, then added to a copied version of wo3se(this is what I originally had, although I owned the game, but it wouldn't work on my ntsc tv very well). I really wouldn't want to send this out unless people actually own wo3se, although since it never came out in the US, it really should be fair game.

[Lance]

.
DJ T:
on monday, i posted a private message to you here on this forum. if you have not read it yet, please do so, and reply.
.

[DJ Techno]

I look to see

but it says there are no new messages
or previous ones

e-mail me
wipeout95mtl@msn.com

[Lance]

.
okay, i've sent you an email about the challenge, including details about getting it started. it's too long to force everybody else to read it. :D
.

[DJ Techno]

you just started sending it right?

if it doesn't show up in my mailbox
Just send it to me here
and I will print out the details and place them in my zip disk.

[Lance]

.

wipeoutzone members other than DJ Techno, for reason stated below, may read this or not, at their pleasure, or not. :)

DJ T, i got a message from the mailerdaemon saying that the email address you gave was invalid or unavailable. so here is the complete text of the message i sent you:


hi, DJ T, this is lance
it's time to get this challenge in gear. we have already filled nearly three pages on the forum, and we have discussed it to the point needed to go ahead and put it into its official form, but you have not yet posted the final version of the rules of the challenge nor the official starting and ending dates of it. please post these by next Monday, October 21. i get the impression that you have a lot going on in your life that may distract you from doing this, but you have a responsibility to the other members of the wipeout forum to carry through on setting up the challenge. considering how much discussion has already occurred on this challenge and with how many concrete ideas for it have been proposed, the potential competitors should not be made to wait any longer without a specific date and format for the competition. otherwise they will get bored with the whole thing and have no interest in participating. if you feel that you have so much going on in your life right now that you will not have the time available to post the final form of the challenge by next monday, please let us know today or tomorrow, so that we can get someone else to do it. it would still be based on your original concept and use the ideas and point system that you either originated or agreed was good. whether you choose to lay out all the details yourself, or to let one of the other members do it, let us know right away. we really need a good competition for the pilots; it's been too long since we had one. let's get this thing going.

cheers

__lance
.

smeg, i had to cut a word and add a 't'. my proofreading skills are going to smeg.

[Lance]

.
just saw your comment. no it was already sent
.

[DJ Techno]

alright

you said there was a problem with the e-mail address
ok I will see about that.

and I have already printed out the message and I am marking the things that need to done.

I am going to print out all three pages of our conversation since day one.
break it down, into all the parts and suggestions

and get it done...

probaly by the end of this week. Before Sunday
yeah...

[Lance]

.
thanks
.

[DJ Techno]

alright, no problem

now if you excuse me

I got to finish an essay that was due two weeks and three days ago.

[JABBERJAW]

I can get the time differences done by the weekend, but the competition could begin anytime.

[Lance]

.
thanks, Al. DJ T has mentioned letting the competition run a month from the start. but it would be good for the pilots to be able to check their comparative times during the whole competition so they know what they have to improve to win the contest, or at least finish higher. we probably don't all have the mindset to improve ourselves to the point of perfection or damn near it just for the sake of achieving an ideal; some of us just are driven to beat the other guys! :)
.

[xEik]

Ahhh, the path to perfection... I could write a (very) long post out of it :roll: (although it would only be descriptive I'm afraid I can't help people find it :( ).
However, being competely counscious that we haven't reached the end of that path (and probably won't), should not prevent us from following it. 8)

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[lunar]

Wise words. 8)

[DJ Techno]

xEik
I am not going to answer what the Path to Perfection is.
Its to hard to explain, even for me.

lance
Yes the tournament is going to be a month long, I think each week the pilots post there
times and statis on the tournament board. letting everybody know how it is doing, what needs to be done for each pilot to improve themselves on there way to the championship.
And I am going to include a special round for the minority of pilots who are getting behind in points. The Wipeout Special Editon game for the PAL system, I don't have the game but I am going to include this game in the tournament. Not as a part of the race tracks that have already been picked and placed for the tournament, but as a bonus for players who want to try and win.
I am not sure if I should do this but you'll let me know.

[Lance]

.
it's your choice as to what tracks you want to include.

as long as this 'bonus' is fair to all competitors, there should be no problem
.

[DJ Techno]

it should be fare

but my knowledge of what to make out of it is going to be tuff.
as in, I have no idea what WO3 Special Edition was fully about
tracks, characters, teams, etc.
whether its the same as Wipeout 3 or totally different.

[Lance]

.
please forgive me for pointing out that this has already been discussed. the people who have SE can still use it. under the points system. all they have to do is report their times. Al can do the conversions to show their relative racetimes to other pilots. you do not actually have to know anything about SE except that it is wo3. if you choose a track that is on wo3, then it can be raced on by pilots who have any one of the following: wo3 ntsc, wo3 pal, and wo3 se pal. all 3 of those have the basic eight tracks plus the basic four prototype tracks. you can choose any of those 12 tracks for the challenge and it wont matter which version of wo3 the competitor has. the points system will even it out. you said that you want to include 2 tracks from each basic game, namely wipeout, wipeout 2097/xl, wipeout 3, wipeout 64, and wipeout fusion. that's all you need to do, the different versions of each of those basic games will be compensated for by the points system. Al can take care of the calculations for us. just pick your tracks, state that no cheats of any kind are allowed, that all ships and weapons must be enabled, then set the start and end dates of the challenge, and if you want to make it more complicated, add your limitations as to each competitor sticking as closely as possible with the team that they started with. i would not add that limitation, since the object is to find the best pilot, not the best ship design. but that is your choice. do as you wish on that
.

[DJ Techno]

understood.

[JABBERJAW]

Actually this game if called wipeout 3 creates a problem, it is just too floaty compared to pal or ntsc 3 and difficult to find a real time difference for, so I would just not include it. Unless you were going to include it as a separate game.

[Lance]

.
well... shucks. ;)

but, if we award points just on the basis of times achieved within each version that still won't matter. within each version, we go by the pilots' times relative to other pilots using that same version, and award points on that basis. only the points are compared to the points received by pilots in other versions, not the times. it is not a perfect system because there may not be a set of pilots in each version of the game who total up to similar distribution of excellence to the other groups. but it does even things up considerably. it will determine for sure which pilots in each group [ntsc or pal] are the overall best. if we have a considerable number of participants in each group, that will even things out to the point where we can be reasonably sure that the overall points winner really is the world's best Wipeout pilot.

we might add a one-race showdown bonus competition where the ntsc winner and the pal winner might race directly for times on the same game version if they both have it. points would not be involved in that case, and the winner would be certain, and undisputed.
.

[JABBERJAW]

I'd say just skip wo3se altogether, unless people can get the modified ntsc version. I will definitely do the time conversions this weekend.

[DJ Techno]

before I make the final post and make the tournament official

I need the following
A person to be in charge of scores
A person to be in charge of keeping up with everything
A person to be in charge of some other stuff that has to be done
because I am going to be participateing in the tournament.
And If this is for sure, I can particapate in my own tournament and still be in charge.
That means I need a second hand in this tournament.

And the WO3 SE
is not going to be used in the tournament.
That is all for now.
see you on monday.

[Lance]

.
''And If this is for sure, I can particapate in my own tournament and still be in charge.''

? can, or cannot, do both? i assume that you can do both.
generally the person who proposes the challenge also runs it aNd participates in it. we don't require separation of these things because we trust in the honesty of the proposing challenger as well as all the other participants. the challengers will post their times in the arena section of the forums, each one editing their own post as they add new times or improve old ones. if you do not have enough time to do the conversions, i propose Al as the most qualified to do time conversions and rankings, if he is okay with doing that.
.

[JABBERJAW]

I don't mind doing all of that. I'll set up an area where only times can be posted and another for comments and such. I'll set up a example of how to post the times as well. If noone is unhappy with the tracks I suggested, I might test a few of these separately from eachother. here are a few time conversions I have done already. I may need to test a few a little more, but they seem right on.


wipeout =.....pal time(.969)=ntsc
woxl=...........pal time(.958)=ntsc
wo64=.........pal time(.941)=ntsc
wo3=...........pal time(.956)=ntsc
wofusion=..not done yet, will be done tonight.

I'll post the other stuff tonight.

[DJ Techno]

DJ Techno list
Task, Lance, Zoolander aka Al Sartwell, Wiseman, and others...

I feel that putting this tournament together will take putting our minds together and people working together.

[beginning of edit by Lance][remainder of post deleted]
[DJ T, you do not assign tasks to anyone, you ask them if they will do something for you. you cannot volunteer someone else's time, only your own.]
[end edit]

Part 1.

[DJ Techno]

The tournament will start in November and end in December
first week of November. Nov.1rst the last day December 10th.

No cheaters. cheating is wrong and will not be prohibited.
Auto pilot weapon is disarmend, turned off, NO YOU CAN NOT USE AUTO PILOT IN THE RACE.
The tournament is going to be broken down into two division
Eastern Division is going to be the PAL version of AG players

Western Division is going to be the NTSC version of AG players
The start of the tournament on a weekly basic is monday through friday racing starts
Saturday all times must be posted or turned in. Late post in by Sunday if you post after sunday.
I am not going to punishing any body, but you will not get any points, and you will be postioned in last place.

From the start of the tournament, you will start with the four teams
When you sign up for the tournament please put your name, the country you are from, the team/country you are playing as, and etc.
You will start out as the first team you assigned your self to be as, and then every week when the next week of Racing begins and you move up to new teams like Pirhana.
You will be asked if you want to stay or go with the new team, don't worry nothing is going to happen to your settings from the beginning, but you will known as your new team you picked as for the rest of the tournament. For players who picked a team through out the racing series and there team has changed their name. You will be asked if you want to stay with your team even though they go by a different name or move on to a new team. Remember everything is the same from before, settings, score, records, etc.

For particiapates who have all the games required for being in the tournament your good to go. For the ones who have one or three you will be alright, but if you live in the Eastern side of the world and have the Wipeout Special Edition that has Wipeout and Wipeout 2097 you can use that if you don't have the two games in a seperate case.

The tournament is going to go by weekly races.
that means Week one is Wipeout Origanl verison
PAL divsion and NTSC divsion
tracks that the AG racers are racing on, are Firestar, Altima VII, and Terramax
Racing teams to choice from as your starting team. Auricom, AG Systems, Feisar, and Quirex
Racing Speed/Skill Levels. Weapons on, Single Race, Rapier.

Week two
PAL division and NTSC division
Wipeout 2097/XL
Teams Auricom, Feisar, AG Systems, Quirex, and Pirhana
Speed/Skill/Racing levels. Phantom, Weapons on, Single Race.
Racing tracks.Spilskinanke Vostock Island, Phenita Park

Week three
PAL division and NTSC division
Wipeout 64
Teams. Aurciom, Feisar, AG Systems, Quirex, Pirhana
Racing Skills/Speed. Phantom, Weapons On, Cyclone weapons technology On, Single Race.
Racing Tracks. Velocitar, Machaon 2, Terrafumos

Week four
PAL division and NTSC divison
Wipeout 3
Racing Teams. Auricom, Feisar, AG Systems, Quires, Pirhana, Icarus, Goteki 45, and Assega
Racing Skills/Speed. Phantom, Weapons On, the games turbo booster is on, Single Race.
Racing Tracks. Manor Top, P-Mar Project, and Stanza International

Week five
PAL division and NTSC dvision Finals
Wipeout Fusion
Racing Teams. Auriom, Feisar, Pirhana,Tigron, G-Tech, Van Uber, EG-R, and Xios
Racing Skills/Speed. Rapier, Weapons On, Upgrades 0 to 100%, Single Race
Racing Tracks. Florian Heights Forward course 3 long, Alca Vexus Forwar course 3 long, Cubis Floats forward course 3 long.
part 2
I know Florian and Cubiss are not as challenging, yes, but in the last game I am using the last of the AG Racing teams since 2052-2097. Auricom, Feisar, Pirhana. I want to use those three countries tracks as some show of.... Somthing like the Olymipics.

[Lance]

.
DJ T, thank you for laying out the specifics of the challenge. they seem pretty complete except for scoring method.

comments:
since you are separating the contest into two challenges, there will be no overall winner, but an NTSC champion and a PAL champion. this also means that no points conversions would be used, so times could be used directly. do you want to use points? or do you want to simply average the accumulated times for each pilot for all 15 races in a division, with the lowest average time being the winner?

the use of 3 tracks per game version with a 5 day time limit on racing them is clearly going to reward those who can achieve good times quickly, rather than result in the best possible new record times through having lots of time to focus on perfection
.

[Lance]

.
Al, does this mean that the PAL times are actually that percentage of the NTSC times? or does it mean that the percentages you show are used to multiply the PAL times to achieve equality? in other words, are the PAL times actually lower or higher than NTSC times?
.

[DJ Techno]

The tournament is going to still be considered a Global tournament

The division
PAL and NTSC
or
Western Hemisphere Division vs. Eastern Hemisphere Division.


Points are going to be distributed evenly and on the same base.
Points will be given on the final day of each week of racing

Times are going to be put in order, separated between PAL and NTSC versions, and then posted, correctly posted by the man in charge.

ex. Week 4 wipeout 3 (times turned in on Saturday date and time)
thruster NTSC...2:58:02
lance NTSC...2:54:53
Dj Techno NTSC...2:48:20
(then)
the person in charge of order
DJ Techno NTSC...2:48.....
Lance NTSC...2:54
Thruster NTSC...2:58

Points/time
DJ Techno NTSC...2:50
Stindah PAL...1:48
Rachel PAL ...1:35
Lance NTSC...2:35
(then)
the person in charge will do
NTSC Divsion
DJ Techno...2:50 second place 90 points
Lance...2:35 first place 100

PAL Division
Rachel...1:35 first place 100 points
Stindah...1:48 second place 90 points
and so on...

all the way down to the Final Round, at the end of the tournament points/times are all collected, placed in there right and respected orders, and we have two winners in the two divisions. PAL champion and NTSC Champion will face off against one another in a one on one race.


Part 3 (Zoolanders percentage rating system is going to used instead of the points system)

[DJ Techno]

.
DJ T, thank you for laying out the specifics of the challenge. they seem pretty complete except for scoring method.

comments:
since you are separating the contest into two challenges, there will be no overall winner, but an NTSC champion and a PAL champion. this also means that no points conversions would be used, so times could be used directly. do you want to use points? or do you want to simply average the accumulated times for each pilot for all 15 races in a division, with the lowest average time being the winner?

the use of 3 tracks per game version with a 5 day time limit on racing them is clearly going to reward those who can achieve good times quickly, rather than result in the best possible new record times through having lots of time to focus on perfection
.

Really if can be done and Task and Zoolander aka Al Sartwell can work together and do the posting of times and then distribute points for the highest to lowest Single Race time score. I want the points system because I always enjoyed watching my scores go up or down in a challenge.

An overall winner will be between the last two deciding divisions, were PAL goes up against NTSC.
and then bam you get your World Champion

If the points system can not be used. Then what you said before can be used.

[JABBERJAW]

Why is autopilot disabled? It is slower for the most part and increases your time. I thought everyone was going to use a specific ship throughout the tournament. If you didn't include specific tracks like I mentioned before, you would need no ntsc or pal division( I could do the math if need be). talon's reach would be the only track that would need to be removed because of track skipping. sagarmatha would not be eligible, but the rest would be. I like spilskinanke!! :D

Lance--- you multiply your pal time times the percentage I wrote to get your ntsc time, so pal is a slower game than ntsc.

[DJ Techno]

Me and Lance discussed about the use of auto pilot
really I want to include it, because it seems to me its not really a cheat and just a weapon.
Yes I missed detail about things I am not done with Part 4 and all.
PAL version players will need only PAL games because they live in the Easteren side of there Division
NTSC version players will need only NTCS games because they live in the Western side of there Division

PAL vs. NTSC

The track you mentioned, I used except for WO3
because earlier ago when I was looking at all the racing challenges going on
I relised Mega Mall and Porta Kora have been used to often. and players are use to racing on those tracks and makes a challenge not fun or interesting if somebody already has plenty of experience.

Everybody is going to use a specific craft during the tournament
that is also going to be mentioned in Part 4.
I was tired last night and fell asleep on my work and my typing fingers got cramped

[JABBERJAW]

the only track that would need to be removed from any of the older game's is talon's reach because of the track jumping physics(sagarmatha would also be eliminated from consideration), but I love spilskinanke!! :D

I think you mean machaon 2(or 4) for wipeout 64 instead of machette

seriously though, autopilot should be allowed, not the cheat, but as a regular weapon. it is in the game. THe only tracks it might actually be faster on is manor top.

[JABBERJAW]

Also of note, combining the two together by time comparisons would allow for a usa-canada vs europeans, aussies competition as well. This would allow people who have one or two games to compete as well.

[DJ Techno]

Please: Clear this up for me

is auto pilot a cheat or a weapon

all I know about the auto pilot weapon is that it is a weapon
period. Wipeout-Wipeout Fusion all use the AP as a defensive weapon

And I had been told AP is a cheat
I don't know of any codes on how to use AP as a cheat.
OK, I have never heard auto-pilot to be considered as a cheat code until today.
I used have told everyone this earlier, I'm sorry

[DJ Techno]

Also of note, combining the two together by time comparisons would allow for a usa-canada vs europeans, aussies competition as well. This would allow people who have one or two games to compete as well.

Yes that is the object of the game
Well if you have only one or two games and not all to compete in the tournament
that's fine.
But if you can get a hold of someone orfind a way to get the rest of the games, that would make things a whole lot better.

[Lance]

.
i have explained this 4 times, here goes number 5: auto pilot is a normal part of the game when weapons are enabled. but there is a feature in some of the games called Continuous Autopilot. this is only enabled by a cheat code. it takes control of the ship away from the human pilot for the entire race and it is SLOWer than a human pilot. there would be no advantage to using it racing. when we spoke of this before, it was only as a way to establish a reference time for the sake of awarding performance points for how much better a human pilot could do in an actual race. the Continuous Autopilot would not be used for actual racing.
the ordinary autopilot available as a pick-up during a race is just a normal option. you could ban it if you wish. you indicated that you don't want to ban it. i would not because it is just another tactical and strategic tool to be used by a skilled pilot. it can hurt your performance if misused, so it does not guarantee any superior performance
.

[JABBERJAW]

Could we go by the percent difference instead of two divisions like I mentioned. it would be easier. I will take care of all the times :o . THe only thing is you would need to choose a substitute track for talons, and it cannot be sagarmatha. Like I said I like spilskinanke :D. But any is fine.

[DJ Techno]

Well then Auto pilot is out.

Talon's Reach was changed to Spilskinanke
Sargarmatha was never put in.

if the percentage way you suggested is easier and can be done by you
Zoolander.
Then like you said before
"Could we go by the percent difference instead of two divisions like I mentioned. it would be easier. I will take care of all the times"
your in charge of working it out Ok.
Lance
beginning of edit by Lance][remainder of post deleted]
[DJ T, you do not assign tasks to anyone, you ask them if they will do something for you. you cannot volunteer someone else's time, only your own.]
[end edit]
actually I was aking them I guess I said it in a wrong way.

[Lance]

.
''actually I was aking them I guess I said it in a wrong way.''

yes
.

[DJ Techno]

Zoolander

since you said you can do the scoring by percentages
and you said you want to do it
Will you do it?

Task
you said you wanted to put all thing in order
PAL players and NTSC players
tracks/races/etc and maybe something I missed
Can you do it?

Lance
ok, you said I am in full responsiblilty of the tournament
but I need help putting things in order, straight and corrected, etc
Will you be my assistant?

IF anybody else has experience (they made more than one tournament) in hosting a tournament let me know.

[DJ Techno]

.
DJ T, thank you for laying out the specifics of the challenge. they seem pretty complete except for scoring method.

comments:
since you are separating the contest into two challenges, there will be no overall winner, but an NTSC champion and a PAL champion. this also means that no points conversions would be used, so times could be used directly. do you want to use points? or do you want to simply average the accumulated times for each pilot for all 15 races in a division, with the lowest average time being the winner?

the use of 3 tracks per game version with a 5 day time limit on racing them is clearly going to reward those who can achieve good times quickly, rather than result in the best possible new record times through having lots of time to focus on perfection
.

With the changes and adjustments
their will be a champion
iether American or European or Canadaina or Japaness

[JABBERJAW]

do you have to stick with the same team all the way through? Also, It may be a hassle, but you might want to post the answer to this and your challenge on a new thread and ask that noone post there. there is another thread for questions about the contest that I set up. There is just a lot of posts around your challenge right now and some people may not see it.

[DJ Techno]

I am doing that right now.
DJ Techno's welcome and ask people to sign name, country your from, team, etc.

I have include the date of the tournament
the starting teams and yes you are allowed to change teams when you reach that point.
2052 to 2097
Auricom player do you want to be a part of team Pirhana
yes or no

And you will be allowed to come back to your team of your choosing

"don't worrie you will be able to play Xios or Pirhana even if you have been in two weeks of the tournament already:):

its all typed now.
And I dont have the ability to lock post so one of the
head moderators is going to have to do it

[Task]

Task
you said you wanted to put all thing in order
PAL players and NTSC players
tracks/races/etc and maybe something I missed
Can you do it?


You'd like me to keep things in order? I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I'd certainly be happy to help out.

[DJ Techno]

Yep.

The contestants or AG Racers who are particiapating in the challenge
Hopefully I am exspecting a butt load, a whole lot, or more than twenty racers in this month and a quarter long tournament.

PAL players have to be broken down and separated from the NTSC players
or nobody will no the differen between who is who...
a pal system from a ntsc system and who is using which game program.

[Lance]

.
DJ T: please read my edit of your post of the instructions for the challenge. contestants will post their own times and the game version they are using, each in his/her own post in the topic which has already been created for that purpose.. no separation is required, merely the contestants' own statement in the post. Al can calculate the points based on which version is used. additional complication is unnecessary
.

[Task]

Well, it was a tough choice, but I've decided to go with AG Sys.
I wanted to go Qirex, but I'm just not quite good enough at Rapier (or Phantom for that matter) to be able to pull off perfect laps in a Qirex with only a couple hours practice. 8 (
So far, I've beaten all my old records, but not by a lot. I'm not quite getting perfect laps, but it's close. I'm not even getting the good start. 8 P
Still, I'm more interested in posting a good time for all the tracks than posting an awesome time for one of the tracks. My plan: put up a good time for every singe track in this challenge. We'll see how that works out...
Good luck, everyone.

[DJ Techno]

Good luck Task

Good Luck to all contestants
And Happy Racing...

Curly Say's
Racer's Start your engines
VROOOM, VROOOM,

Curly Say's
5...4...3...2...1...GO, GO, GO,GO!

[Lance]

.
Jay, that's probably going to be the way of it every week of the contest. with three tracks each and every week to race on, perfecting the times will be difficult. every track, no matter how time consuming, still counts the same in points.

everybody: don't forget that the challenge starts TODAY!!
good luck to all. :)
.

[zargz]

is anybody else that J post his times?? :o
I'm working on mine

[DJ Techno]

Well bad new's for me, I am out of Round one, no thanks to two of the following things

1. Memory card-went smokin
2. Game Disk-Never, ever, let your younger siblings touch any thing that is not unbreakable.

[Lance]

.
round one may be the least particpated in of all the rounds since most people prefer the later versions, perhaps partly because it's very old, and with more primitive graphics, and hitting the walls is a total laptime-killer. very frustrating
.

[DJ Techno]

Probably, around Round three and four everybody is going to come out, busting times and showing out.

want to see that happen in Round two instead

[zargz]

well I could almost say that wo1 is the Best! guess y!
= no autopilot, no thrust, no stupid weapons just the basics!
'fcource as lance said the thing that bring it down grafix (not SO bad thou)
for me the worse is that there's no 'play again same circuit' option after the race
and the LOADINGtime
the game being difficult to beat 4me is a good thing nOt bad
and I luuuv ALL the trax!! 8)

[jmoid]

i'm not in on round one cause i haven't even got rapier class on wipEout :oops:

[zargz]

C'mon man! u stil got 2days!! .. I think .. :roll:

[JABBERJAW]

I think there is a cheat to open up all classes on gamewinners.com

[Task]

zargz: Dang, but that's a nice Altima time. I was thinking that I might be able to get a 2:50, but I haven't got a clue how you managed a 2:47! I might be able to pull that off in TT, but probably not in SR... I think I might be able to take your Terramax and your Firestar, but it's gonna be tough. I haven't been able to get a good start once this week. I useta pull them off at least a couple times during a multi-hour session, but not even once the past couple days... I'll hafta see what I can do about this tomorrow...

[auslander]

Task and zargz i dunno how you maintained all that Wipeout talent over the years but congrats on some great scores!

i'm *aweful* right now at the first game, i was trying to get back into practice using your scores as goals but i could only manage a measly 2:07.9 / 40.9 with AG Sys on Terramax. I need a *lot* more practice. And firestar? Geez, i never even bothered getting there the first time through :) .

good job boys!

aus!

[Lance]

.
aus, there was a challenge on wipeout 1 several months ago; both zargz and task participated. there was no closing date set for it, and zargz is trying to revive it if you want to get in on it
.

[auslander]

I dunno lance, i'm having enough difficulty doing well in this challenge. I don't think i should be trying other ones ^_~ . I'll just have to wait for the XL and Fusion to catch up with.

aus!

[jmoid]

heh, why didn't i think of looking for cheats??? thanks al (and zargz for the encouragement)

[Wiseman]

Good lord Al, I thought you said you weren't very good at the first Wipeout! :o

I guess I should have expected times like that from you though, regardless. :lol:



Anyway, great times everyone. :)

[zargz]

qirex??! how the f ??! and al with auricom? wow! :o

[DJ Techno]

Good Job, Task in handling the AG Systems craft, very good through Vostok

:wink:

Tomarrow I hope to be under, your name when I do my post
Phantom: Team ?

[Task]

Thanks, I kinda thought my times were pants. Perhaps I managed to get a good race in somewhere. I was having trouble getting by all the computers, I don't think I was even in 1st place till the 2nd lap. 8 (
I was hitting walls everywhere, it was very obvious that it's been a _long_ time since I flew WOXL. I'm gonna hafta put a lot more practice in.
I don't expect to beat many people, 'cause I imagine most are gonna fly Pirhana. Personally, I chose AG Sys and I'm gonna stick by them for the whole challenge. I wanna see what it's like, piloting The Belmondo Vision through all the games. If I can beat just one Pirhana with my AG Sys... then I'll be a happy man.

(time passes)
Okay, I've put some more time into this WOXL challenge and I've found that I've got a serious problem... I don't like Spilskinanke or Vostock Island! I mean, I really don't like them. I _do_ like Phenita Park, and I've improved that time, but I know I'll never improve on the other two until I start to really enjoy the track.
Anyone who enjoys either of these tracks: why do you like them? If I can find something about them that I like, there might be hope for me yet!

[zargz]

'If I can beat just one Pirhana with my AG Sys... then I'll be a happy man'
u won't!
the trax the more u race the the more u like them.

[DJ Techno]

When I raced for pirhana, my first time racing with the team on 64, was whole lot different than 2097. 8)

At least on 64, the computer ships, didn't constintly beat and smack the shizznit out of me, into the wall. :x

Even simple turns and hard ones I mastered, Bam, Scratch, Locked on Target. :-?
KABOOM "ouch"
Don't worry about how long it will take you to make it across the finish line, worry about
how many opponents ships are going to, come after you during the first two laps. :)

I like Vostock and Spil, well because there hard, and great to challenge skills on.
You might beat me, since my team is going to be Pirhana through out the tournament.
"It's the team I belong to, second to Auricom"

It's been six months, since I played wipeout, and really six months is a long, long time.
You'll find something about Vostock Island, that is cool,
The Statue snakes, they "blink" wink at you when coming towards them.

[JABBERJAW]

wiseman. you beat me though, and it looks by your lap times you could have done much better. I definitely should have done better on terramax, just kept screwing up on the last lap, and had 4 or 5 chances on firestar to go under 2:00, but just got nervous.

Iv'e noticed that wipeout xl is easier than ever after playing wipeout 1(except spilskinanke, which is always hard). Iv'e got my times done already, but want to play a little more to try to get my personal best times on vostok and phenita(very close on both). I suprisingly already got it on spilskinanke :D . I wasn't even racing well up until that race.

[Wiseman]

and it looks by your lap times you could have done much better.Totally. Although those lap times I posted aren't good to go by, as at the beginning of the week, I had my PSX memory card loaned out to one of my friends, and I never thought about logging the lap times in for this challenge (like you didn't) because I thought we were just going by race time.

But once I saw Jay's etc. lap times I just recorded whatever my fastest times were at the end.

But anyway, I made most of my best lap times towards the beginning, however, my first laps (with the AI still around) always ended up sucking hard, especially on Firestar, and whenever I managed to get through the AI OK, I'd get so excited I'd screw up the rest of the laps. :lol:

On this challenge, I had to spend most of my time on Firestar, as it was the hardest one for me to do right.

Zargz's Altima VII times are proof that my times weren't very good at all for that track, as he was within seconds of my time, and was using a waaaaaaaay slower ship! (congrats on that, BTW, Zargz ;))


Also, no one has anything to fear from me from my XL times, as of right now, they are total pants. "Powersliding" around Firestar in the Qirex is such a different thing than the super tight handling of the Pirhana, I just can't get used to it.

Not to mention I'm having a hard time gutting it's speed. I'm actually having to race Talon's Reach some so I can get used to it. I had a section on Spilkshanke (from the 90 degree jump/turn to the series of turns/jumps after the 2nd tunnel) where I was racing without hitting any sides, and I was going so fast that everything just turned to a flat out blur to me, I couldnt even see what the heck I was doing, and BAM! right into a wall.

Can't even get below a 30 second lap time on this track... :lol:

Like I said, nothing to fear from me.

Although I do admit that hearing that Jay is using AG Sys does bring some comfort to me, although it won't if I find out his times are better than mine! (I'm not going to look at the times posted until I'm done with mine).

[jmoid]

i'll be using ag sys as well, or maybe qirex. i've never really enjoyed racing with the pirhana in xl/2097, it just doesn't feel right - i like the way the other ships feel as if they have some weight.

[zargz]

thanx wiseman and al 4the kind words! :oops:
after seeing your times guys, I did try 2beat my times for a half an hour or so, in order 2get colser 2u ..
I just couldnt 8)

the steering of the piranha is too tight 4me the speed is ok after 15-20 min :D
also it seems u just cant get as close 2the wall as with other crafts may b the big tail
makes the 'sprite'(model) of the ship too big i dunno probably it's the stteering ..
I prefere the AGsys and lately the auricom too but ..
althou i hate it I'll sell out and go with piranha just to get better times :roll:
1 thing i like about the pirhana thou(probably the ONLY1) - no #¤%! autopilot!! hehe ..

al, u should post u time NOW, just in case there is anybody who is close 2u
so they got a chance 2 @least TRY'n beat them. it can Also make ppl give upp -
judgeing fr the wo3 tables u'll probably b about 10-15 sec ahead the most of us :-?


I'll post mine and then try 2improve them eventually ..

[Wiseman]

i like the way the other ships feel as if they have some weight.Yeah, that's main reason why I don't like Wipeout 64. Not even the Qirex has any weight on 64, that's just pathetic.

Anyway, the intense speed of the Piranha makes up for that (unike the 64 ships) so I enjoy racing it anyway.


Anyway, I seriously doubt that anyone else is anywhere near Al as far as times are concered. I would like to see Joel (science) participate in the Wipeout 3 portion of the contest though, if anything to at least see Al "get a run for his time" at Manor Top.

[zargz]

what day is the deadline 4this(wo2) week?

and can somebody change the name of this topic to 'DJ T challange - comments' or smthn
coz this is no longer about the auricom is it? :roll:

[Lance]

.
actually there's already a topic for questions for the DJ T challenge. it's just that everybody ignores it and posts here. i could always lock this one, it's too huge already

the deadline is the same every week. as stated in the ''instructions'' topic, it's 8am Greenwich Mean Time/ Universal Time Monday morning. which is also the same as Sunday midnight California time [Pacific Standard Time]
.

[zargz]

o'right that's 2more days 2go!

do u mean the 'DJ TECHNO QUESTIONS HERE, OR TIME CONVERSION REQUESTS'?

[Lance]

.
''DJ TECHNO QUESTIONS HERE''
.

[Wiseman]

Since the next portion of the contest is Wipeout 64, I have a few questions, that have to do with "jumping" corners.

O.K., so we know that in some instances, jumping corners in other Wipeout's is O.K., like the chicane section after the first jump in P-Mar, it's generally accepted that jumping over them is O.K., since there's really no other way you can do it. Same thing goes for the final turn on Odessa Keys.

But what about the tracks in Wipeout 64? There are plenty of oppurtunities to jump loads of corners (especially in Terrafumos), but I have no idea whether this is viewed as acceptable or not.

[JABBERJAW]

the only corners for jumping that are better is terrafumos. the machaon really has none and velocitar does but it is harder and slower. there should be no problem with this on terrafumos and should be allowed since it is part of the game and anyone can do them. everyone should know where they are though. the first one is fairly simple and the second is very difficult to do properly, but it is part of the game. the only thing I am worried about for any of the challenges is a bogus respawn or bug lap. these should definitely not be included

[auslander]

Thanks Al (for putting my scores in)!

and i'd also like to say a general thank you to Al, for all your hard work tabulating these results. Great work man.. i feel like i'm actually a part of something big thanks to these charts.

also thanks to DJ and Lance for putting this challenge together, it's brought lots of fond memories back. Now i'm off to wipeout 3, to be ready in two weeks when i can enter times again!

^_^

cheers!

aus!

[DJ Techno]

Good Luck, you'll need it.... :lol:

Question: Lance are you going to be in Wipeout 3 or Fusion, do you know?

[Lance]

.
i don't have Fusion, but i'll probably try it on wo3. those three tracks are the ones that i'm the worst at in all speed classes, and i've only driven them in phantom class a couple of times [sessions] each. stanza inter in phantom class. yikes!
i did find that about one time out of six, i could drive thrOUgh the esses at p-mar in phantom class without hitting the walls. weird. [a couple of times i had to because rockets and mines had taken my boost, so it became a challenge] it was an interesting session
.

[DJ Techno]

You'll do fine, trust me 8)

just remember in Stanza, take your time going through the twist and turns, when you enter the first tunnel on the right, no sweat if you use Feisar. :wink:
Had a darn time, with Pirhana and Auricom on Stanza, that's why I picked as a track for the tournament. It's fun, when you get use to it.

If your using Icarus, keep the shields weapon in good handy, never let go of it.

[Lance]

.
aus, you're welcome; thanks for participating

mike, Feisar is too slow and over-responds to control inputs in the tunnel, my inputs being excessive because i try to push it too hard because of its slowness.. i can get through the tunnel faster with a Qirex
.