video of Wipeout XL on Saturn

[AG-wolf]

Someone had been curious to see what it looked like, so I recorded a quick video; no perfect laps, no remarkable skill, just something I did last night when I was tired. I figured it was better than the other crappy videos people have online... none of them are regulars of the franchise so all you get for footage are venom races if you're lucky :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qX8PCfhg9c&fmt=6
Valparaiso Phantom Single Race Qirex NTSC

MUCH better video quality, same course/class/ship
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql5rTjbzc-s&fmt=22

[eLhabib]

Very nice, thanks! :+

Always funny to see how the Saturn couldn't quite handle transparencies - rastered exhaust trails ftw! ;)

[BulletWraith]

Cheers AG-Wolf, been wanting to see what it looked like on the Saturn and with my favourite craft/track no less, Awesome!, I do Miss my beloved Red Bull advertisments

Churr Churr
-Stevie

[Vincent_VII]

You know... I recently came across two very rare PSX to Saturn controller adapters. I don't have a copy of Wipeout or XL to try, but I wonder if the neGcon will register. ;) Though I doubt it.

Does the game work with the 3D controller or the fight stick for the Saturn?

[AG-wolf]

PSX to Saturn? ie: Use PSX controller on saturn? Chances are it was made by a company called "tototek," because that's who made the one I have in my posession... if that's the case then I believe only the regular digital PSX controller works, or at least a dual-shock won't do anything when you use the analog sticks, and I don't think the NeGcon works either... I never sat down and tried different things but usually all the different converters out there only know how to translate standard pads, none of the more obscure things.

Wipeout 1 on saturn utilizes the saturn's normal digital pad and the saturn steering wheel

Wipeout XL/2097 on saturn uses the digital pad, steering wheel, and the 3d analog pad (NiGHTS controller)

I don't think the flight stick works for either game, you'd do better to ask Al/JABBERJAW on that one.

[Lance]

I STILL wish I had a Saturn and NiGHTS. And WO1 and WO2, of course. And maybe Panzer Dragoon Saga.

The Saturn was a really cool machine.

[Vincent_VII]

AG-wolf, I believe it is a tototek. Actually, I think they are the only company that makes a PSX to Saturn controller adapter.

I was hoping that the tototek might translate the neGcon to the Saturn as a steering wheel. I know that the official 3D pad for the Saturn is recognized as a flight stick/steering wheel.

Lance, Oh yes... the Saturn is a special system. I've been playing a lot of Virtual On on it lately.

[Vincent_VII]

*update*

Ok, the system doesn't even recognize the neGcon when plugged into the adapter. :?

[BulletWraith]

woah
OT
but Virtual On is on the Saturn??!?!
thats great, I used to play it at the arcade heaps and thought I was going to have to buy and Xbox 360 to play it

now to track it down
Churr
oh btw whats a good controller to use with virtual On?


-zer:rockshen

[Vincent_VII]

It is. IMO it's the best version of the game. Sega did a great job cramming the dual stick style controls into the Saturn pad. I would suggest a standard Saturn pad or the Virtua Stick to play the game. Sega did make dual, arcade style sticks for the Saturn but they are rare and usually net a high price on eBay.

If you decide to hunt the game down, definitely get the "netlink" version. It sports the same features as the regular release but if you happen upon a netlink modem package, you'll be part of a select few who can play the game via "direct modem dial."

Terribly sorry for hijacking your thread, AG-wolf. Your video is excellent and thanks for posting it up.

[AG-wolf]

no biggie dude, I'm a huge Saturn fan myself :P You actually beat me to the punch on the Virtual On comment because I was gonna say get the NetLink version too lol XD I've got VO, Sega Rally, and one other netlink game (wow it really has been so long that I forget) but I was never good at VO to really warrant playing it with the netlink :/

also, always relevant to saturn conversations:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/379/controller.jpg

[Lance]

Those controllers look really good. I've never held one of those, but somehow all the pics I've seen of them make it seem that the design would be very comfortable to use, very ergonomically correct, and would make gameplay easy.

[Vincent_VII]

I always preferred the model 2 controller (one on the right). It's a little small but the dpad is probably the best ever made. It's so good that if I could never use an arcade joystick again, I would be perfectly happy with a Saturn model 2 controller.

[AG-wolf]

that's the same argument everyone gives, but ironically the western pad (left in picture) has a more responsive D-pad than the japanese model. It defaults to center just a little faster than the japanese model (it's "snappier" I guess would be a good way to describe it), and doing rotating combo moves in fighting games like quarter and half circle sweeps is much smoother.

Another factor for me is comfort, though this is a little more about personal preference. Everyone says the western pad is bulky, but it's only because the japanese pad is so minuscule and they didn't focus on comfort at all. I realize the japanese may have smaller hands, but I never had issues using an SNES controller back in the day, and that's tiny as hell. The way the jap saturn pad is designed, your thumbs are forced to bend sharply, but the western pad lets them rest in a much more natural position. It's not so much that the western pad is a bit larger, it's just ergonomically designed so that your hands don't cramp up in ten minutes... the pad kinda just rests in your palms, but the japanese one requires deliberate effort to hold. The L/R shoulder buttons are better accessible too because you can just slap your index fingers down on them, rather than having to deliberately find the small rounded bumps on the japanese pad... and the contact switches on the jap pad's shoulders are very stiff.

I dunno, people like what they like, so it's not like I'm on some crusade to change that :P I guess I just wish the western saturn pad didn't get such an unnecessary bad reputation lol

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1084/compare.jpg

[Lance]

What about the 3D NiGHTS controller?

[Vincent_VII]

The NIGHTS controller is massive, bigger than the Dreamcast controller. But it is very comfortable (imo). It fits nicely in your hand and the Dpad and Analog... thing are well within reach. The analog thing/stick/nub/whatever is very sensitive. Almost too sensitive. The L and R shoulder buttons have been changed to fully functional analog triggers. This is probably the first controller to have triggers. It feels very much like a Dreamcast controller with a model 2 Saturn Dpad and 6 face buttons. One would wonder why Sega deviated from the design when the Dreamcast was released. It would have been a perfect controller for Sega's ill fated system.

[Lance]

No idea, but the D's controller was still very good for me.

Part of the redesign was because the rumble packs, videoscreen memory cards [VMUs], et cetera went into two stacked large slots that nearly enveloped some of the cards, but that need not have changed the overall lateral shapes much.

As I said, I'd still like to have a Saturn and NiGHTS, though it would damned expensive to get the game. Maybe more expensive than the console.

[AG-wolf]

Hardly. NiGHTS is very commonplace nowadays, and you can usually find the 3D controller for cheap at places like GoodWill or Salvation army if someone happens to donate a bunch of saturn stuff. Sometimes GameCrazy still has Saturn stuff in stock, otherwise most local independent game or comic places will have something once in a while.

[Lance]

I wonder what changed; a few years ago, NiGHTS had started going for 35 to 40 dollars or more, and there aren't any more original copies now than there were then, so I thought it would be even more now.

[AG-wolf]

I got my hands on a saturn with 1 regular controller, 16 games, one of which was the NiGHTS bundle WITH the 3D Pad in their original box... all for 80 bucks. Granted it all reeked of cigarettes, but I cleaned the console and controllers, and aired out the games' manuals and wiped the cases down and stuff. I kinda sold it to FrostE, though (still needs to pay me *cough* lol). WHen I worked at GameCrazy like 5 years ago, we always had copies of NiGHTS around, and I saw the 3D pads on multiple occasions. I'll keep my eyes peeled around here.. matter of fact, I don't have anything else to do on a Friday evening in this city since I don't know anyone and I'm not going to a club or bar by myself... I'm gonna go check someplace right now and see if they have any saturn stuff kicking around; dunno if they're even open.

[Lance]

You lucky bastard. Not about the
nothingtodoonfridaynightsinthislittleonetrafficsig naltown syndrome ;) ,
but definitely about the cartfull of Saturn goodies.

edit: why the hell is the software forcing a space in the middle of 'signal'?

[Task]

Software-based character limit on the maximum size of a word.

It's an educated guess.

[Lance]

hm...
pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis

Must break at 50 letters.

[AG-wolf]

Portland is actually a relatively large and active city, and there's a lot to do... but I don't go to other peoples' rooms and knock on the door to just "drop in." I don't like doing that because I feel rude, so I don't go somewhere unless I'm invited, even if it's just a casual "hey, Eric, swing by this evening sometime." That alone is enough, but I don't like trying to insert myself unannounced.

There are plenty of clubs, performance venues, bars/pubs, etc etc around the city too... but wandering around aimlessly and trying to be a part of any of that **** when you're by yourself is really defeating and frustrating. I feel like a tool going into someplace and just sitting there with a drink by myself or somesh*t. The hell with it.

Also, that shop was closed before I even left to go look in the first place. I'll check tomorrow if I get the chance.

[Lance]

That is why I always hated parties.

[Koleax]

I saved for months and months to buy a Saturn during the "three for free" deal, when the system came bundled with Virtua Figher 2, Virtua Cop, and Daytona USA. My final decision to buy it, though, was influenced by the existence of Wipeout for the Saturn. If it had Wipeout, and the rest of these games, the decision was easy.

Strangely, I couldn't find Saturn Wipeout anywhere. Something like six years went by before I finally saw it at a video game store, while waiting for a movie across the street, for $7. I asked, "Are you really selling this? You're not going to lock it up behind some glass and protect it?" I held on to it like a prized possession.

By that time it looked very dated and the sound wasn't very good. I didn't know the technical limitations of the Saturn compared to the PS1, when I bought it, so I was disappointed by many games. Luckily there was 2097 for the Mac, which I loved to death. But I still owned Saturn Wipeout, and for a time that felt unreal.

[AG-wolf]

It's not so much the Saturn had technical limitations, it was just extremely difficult to program for. Sega didn't provide enough developers with SDKs to build code for the machine, and the few kits they DID have were shoddy at best. Where joe schmoe could basically write code in C for Playstation and run it through Sony's kit, most Saturn code had to be written at the base level in assembly.

Like most ports of PSX games, both Wipeout and WOXL only use one of the Saturn's two main processors, and the rest of the code isn't optimized through the two VDP chips and two audio chips.

As far as Wipeout 1 on Saturn goes, though, despite it's graphics, Tantrum actually tweaked some of the physics in the game when they ported it, so it plays better than the PSX version.

[Lance]

Does the ship's nose stick to the wall in the Saturn version? I hate that in the PS game.

[JABBERJAW]

you bounce off the walls, so less slowdown, framerate is worse though, so do not play the psx version first, or you will not like it.

[Lance]

Too late for that; I've already played WO1 on PSX. :) My favourite track is Karbonis V.

Bouncing off the walls would be a lot better than sticking to them. Thanks for the info, Al.

[JABBERJAW]

Lance, I meant that do not play it right before playing the saturn version :)

[Lance]

I seeee. Give myself some time to forget. Got it. :D

[AG-wolf]

Good lord, truer words have never been spoken. Truth be told, I like the framerate on the Saturn version more, but if you just did a stint on the PSX, it genuinely takes time to adjust lol

It's more than just fixed wall collisions, they changed the physics engine in general so the game feels a little more fluid. It's hard to explain, but once you play them it's like night and day; you'll never wanna play the PSX version again :P

side-note, get an s-video cable for the Saturn if you can't do RGB.. composite looks like garbage

[Lance]

I can do RGB and S-video [and HDMI and composite and DVI (or whatever it's called), but I suspect the Saturn doesn't have quite all of those. :g ].

[AG-wolf]

I don't mean RGB in the sense of "component" cables, aka YCbCr. I believe the Saturn outputs true 15/31khz RGB signal; the genesis/MD and even the Master System did a regular 15khz RGB output too.

But it's hard to find the video equipment to handle that signal anymore. s-video suffices :P

[Lance]

The Genesis was/is a sweet machine. I only got to play one once, mostly Sonic stuff, but I appreciate the machine's innards.

[AG-wolf]

Updated my first post, too; I did a new recording of the previous Valparaiso video so it has better video quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql5rTjbzc-s&fmt=22


@Lance: oh man, the Genesis was amazing. It's worth tracking down an old "High Definition Graphics" model (best audio quality) and a bunch of games at a tag sale... kind of the same advice regarding Saturn lol :P I have a bunch of spare genesis machines at home; while I don't have any spare HDG models, I may be able to piece together a whole package w/ controller and cables and stuff.

You might wanna check out this site sometime:
http://www.sega-16.com/
it is to Genesis as WOZ is to Wipeout...

[billychanxtr33m]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Zj1_eHybY&feature=sub

a review of saturn 2097 with lots of gameplay footage! i love this guy's reviews and hope he gets around to doing some others in the series

[quickbeam]

Ok, I know we've already beaten the poor Saturn horse to death in this topic,

BUT . . . . .

I can't let anyone say the word "Saturn" without informing everyone around me that I am the proud owner of a one Panzer Dragoon Saga. A friendly reminder: it is the best game ever.

Thank you.