Lag

[KGB]

Hi all
I think i need an explanation about lag as i don't understand it in great detail myself.

Yesterday i was playing the elite AI in a tournament and getting hit by the usual barrage of missiles, rockets etc. But it seemed quite easy to make it into the lead and stay there. The weapons that were coming my way were a problem and they knocked me about a bit but it was manageable and i was easily able to maintain speed.

But today, when playing online i was getting knocked about left, right and center, if i hit one mine then i would slow right down, if someone hits me then i go slamming into a wall, ships seem to stick to me until we separate and then i would fly off in a completely wrong direction, a missile slows me down to a complete stop more or less.

It seems like a different game at times and I find it very annoying when I clash with pilots and always come off worse, then have to catch them up, try and pass them only for it to happen again.

It's been discused here on various different threads, and has been put down to internet connection speeds, can anyone enlighten me on this

[The Gracer]

Basically, lag is the delay between the PS3 and the server recieving information from eachother.

Obviously, if the server isnt recieving instruction on where you are in the race quickly enough, it cant accurately place you on the track, or if you arent recieving information fast enough, the PS3 cannot show your opponents exact position - simply because it doesnt know where they are yet!

You can liken lag to the delay in an overseas phonecall - lag is the time it takes for the other persons voice to reach you.

Im sure there are plenty of guides on how to maximise your connection as to reduce lag as much as possible - a google search will more than likely answer any questions you might have. :)

[SaturnReturn]

Perhaps Gracer's post did too good a job of explaining :D But as mentioned in the May Day Avalon thread, the lag issue pops up a lot. So maybe it would be good to discuss the issue here centrally and have a fuller discussion with everyone involved.

I'd be interested to hear how everyone here thinks lag manifests itself in the game. What do people think is lag and what is just to do with this mysterious "netcode" folks talk about.

A particular question I have is - why do crappy games with loads of ramming and vista pads seem to occur, only for more of the problems to go away, or at least reduce, if a new game is created. I mean, like, seriously, what's up with that? You know?

[KGB]

I'm interested to know what you mean Saturn by 'ramming'. As I can think of four variations of what could be described as ramming when playing online.

The type that is similar when you play offline, where both ships fair the same after a collision. :frown:

The type that makes you leave the track or fly up in the air! :frown:

The type where you stick to the other ship and watch helplessly as your shield goes down. :frown:

Or the type of ramming where you always come off second best even if you are a faster pilot. I've often thought this might be to do with momentum but it doesn't seem to matter if you are in the lead but slower than the pilot behind you or catching up with someone. :frown:

I've experienced this with up to 2mb connection speeds and still get it (even worse) with up to 8mb.

Hope a few people reply to this as I find it very interesting and also the fact that I am not playing HD much because of it.

[Amorbis]

I get all of those types of collision, KGB. Some are more common than others. I'd say the most common for me is some hybrid between always coming off second best and getting stuck to the other pilot. I had a collision with Kanar's Icaras the other day where I got stuck on him which led to him being eliminated after about 4 seconds off scraping. My definition of 'ramming' is the unavoidable collision of ships that take different racing lines, which can be combined with the affect of the internet connection.

I'm quite sure that the reason I get such great lag is that I have ADSL 512KBPs internet in rural Cumbria, topped off with a crazy router that can't decide whether it wants to connect or not.

[LOUDandPROUD]

LMBO...I want. :lol

[blackwiggle]

I think it has more to do with the PSN as a whole and how many people are online doing various things.

Lag and other issues were a lot less [well seems so] prior to HOME becoming a open beta.

That's when people started to get the unable to play with their original PSNID account errors,the messaging system started to slow down considerably and wipeout HD started to get,what were then,minor online game play issues.

We should "collectively" do some sort of investigative research through each of our personal previous posts to track down,in chronological order,when and what problems started to appear and compare them to events that have occurred that might of had a baring on each of these problems.
Even trolling through the Official BUG report thread and comparing it to events would probably help as well.

For example:
HD released [date]
System update 2.70 released 2 days later [date] - problems?
First HD patch released [date]- problems?[the 100 friend limit bug]
System update 2.71 released [date] -problems?
HOME open beta released [date]-problems?
ETC

It might make for some interesting reading and help find out exactly what might of been the initial cause of each problem as it arose.

Just an idea.

[KIGO1987]

I remember the night (bloody morning here) that Wipeout HD got released and everybody who was able to download it quickly, and then went straight onto online to race other people, i remember getting responses on messenger saying quote "online is great", also "there is absolutely no lag, like in Pulse". Now look at it, its ****ed bad. Im racing back on Pulse again since im tired of the Vista pads on HD. Yes there is lag in Pulse, but i do see a fair bit of it, but it is nowhere near the incredibly frustrating lag, vista pads and heavy ships i get on HD. Im enjoying Pulse once again, like last year. Like i said to other people, "At least with Pulse there are no Vista pads". The difference with the PSP and the PS3, is that the PSP isnt signed into the PSN list like with the PS3, so the problem is partly do to PSN errors, and the rest of that is due to the hosts connection speed i guess.

[Spece2goin]

you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.

[leungbok]

Sure that sony has work to do in improving the quality of his online system.

[KIGO1987]

you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.

Ridge Racer 7 online was quite bad like that. It experience that alot on online.

[SaturnReturn]

KGB - I guess by ramming I mean anything crazy that is beyond what happens offline against AI. So all the things you've listed. You can fly off the track from what seems like a split second nudge as a ship hits you then suddenly disappears. I'm pretty sure that's a lag issue to do with the game interpolating positions wrongly, or whatever it does. The way ships stick to eachother though - not so sure about that one. Me and haydn got up close and personal as we were stuck together for the entire length of the Moa Therma mag strip once. I felt so dirty afterwards. It's just not right I tells ya.

[KGB]

Thought a lot more people would be posting here,

Here is another problem that must be down to lag. Does any one else suffer from the start countdown being out of sync. It doesn't do it all the time but sometimes the bar that runs along the start sign is no where near where it should be corresponding to the numbers being counted down. This has led me to so many slow starts it's untrue. I've racked my brain thinking if something changed prior to this happening, but can't think of anything.

[Darkdrium777]

For me the very worst thing that makes me want to stop playing immediately is when you are turning, and a ship hits you and makes you lose control and your line in that turn.
Then there are the BRs, there is sadly now input lag with it (yay) that seem to work just as well as in PurE. I've lost count of how many times I could have done a BR to gain a position but it was instead denied, and I was smashed to bits by the opposition (Seriously, those eliminations after a failed BR because of the game happen so often it's not funny).
Then there is ships going through walls, perfect when you shoot a missile and it wastes itself on the wall for no effect. Getting hit by weapons in front of you. The bomb from the player on the left appearing in front. Me not getting the first pad in the race when I am first, it's the second player who gets it and it turns out its rockets, perfect.
I am sick of the glitches, bugs and lag in this game. I've never seen any other game like it, where bugs were allowed to stay for so long and were so numerous that the online play is totally different than what it should be and would be if there were nothing.

[SaturnReturn]

I've not had the countdown issue too much. Sometimes it happens, but usually only if I quit the XMB too late. There have been a few times more recently though where I've just received no boost at all. I guess that could be a similar problem.

[Zoth-Ommog]

What ever DD said. Truth in every word.

[KGB]

My issues are old news really, I'll tell anyone that will listen that I don't think I'm getting a fair crack of the whip.

If you remember that Avalon Session you hosted Saturn, the ones you posted on Youtube where I kept winning (believe it or not). It seemed that i was getting no lag at all there, as i wasn't getting shoved around or anything strange happening, maybe it was happening to everyone else though. If you could compare that to the English qualifiers it was a different game, Amorbis seemed to have high powered weapons that totally crippled me.

The last time i played on Monday, Mad-Ice hosted some games and I felt that I was competing on the same playing field, won some ,lost more, but i felt it was a fair reflection of the skills as I know Mad ice is better than me. Just before i joined his room however I was having a nightmare with my screwed countdown and pilots that I know are slower than me knocking me all over the place.

I don't know if I am jaded now from playing this game too much, but it has left me felling rather apathetic to the whole game.

[blackwiggle]

The start countdown problem usually occurs when somebody has joined the game late,and the more people that do join late the long that difference is.

I've had games where 3 have joined and one has left and the countdown has been over a second out of sync.

[KGB]

Cheers blackwiggle, I was begining to think that it was only me who got that one, out of ten races i get it about five time at the moment.

[Amorbis]

I sometimes get the out of sync countdown, but it's quite uncommon. It only usually happens when I'm downloading something on my PC, racing with Japanese and/or Australian pilots or just as a random event. I don't worry too much about it. For some reason at the end of the race when this does happen it doesn't count the time spent me sitting at the start when everyone else has gone, resulting in strange wins where I should've come second but the time difference put me in first :blarg.

[KGB]

So what is causing some poeple to get it more than others, can't remember who has said in the past that they hardly get any Lag issues but there are some players that have no problems.

Is ping a big part of this?

[Spece2goin]

So what is causing some poeple to get it more than others, can't remember who has said in the past that they hardly get any Lag issues but there are some players that have no problems.

Is ping a big part of this?

Absolutely

simple exemple : A european player playing on an australian game (host at the other side of the world) will have many lag issue and hi ping compared with another australian.
You got lag since the information can't go fast enough between you and the host.
the further it is, the slower your connection is, because of error correcting code and redudancy needed for the information to pass...

but it's not always related to the distance, there are many things to take into account and slow down your connection, raising your ping.

[KGB]

Ok but explain this please.

If I host a game and an Austrailian or Japanese player joins the room things start going down hill badly, but if an American joins the room it changes nothing. Both could be the same distance away from me, what's the difference.

Also some of the worst lag issues I have had have been when I am hosting myself. Why?

[SaturnReturn]

I don't know what I'm talking about (good way to start a post eh?). I'd like to say that it could be because an Australian player might have a worse ping as they are likely to be further than the exchange or servers or whatever. But that would make no sense for Japanese. I'm similarly as baffled as kgb on this one.

[Spece2goin]

The same thing can happen with someone in your own country

it's not all about distance but quality of the line.

With large broadband connection there are some optic fibers on the path, but the line from your home to the fiber (since fiber direct to home is not yet implemented) is your phone line with 2 copper wires. This distance from you and the fiber is very critical, since it's a source of attenuation of signals, then of bitrate. Someone living far from a big city (or at least an average one) will have more lag issue due to the quality of his line.

Another point : the connection with the US is far more better than with Asia in general, Japan in your case, so that explains.

[SaturnReturn]

I thought Japan would have really good connections. They seem to be at the forefront of everything technological. I'm sure I've seen something that at least suggests the average speed is very high.

[Spece2goin]

I thought Japan would have really good connections. They seem to be at the forefront of everything technological. I'm sure I've seen something that at least suggests the average speed is very high.

Maybe for them, but we are talking about inercontinental connections, which not the same between EU and US and between EU and Asia...

[KGB]

So, the fact that I live in the least populated county in England and have only one city in that county (18 miles away), means that I will alway have lag of some description whatever my supposed internet connection speed. Great!!!:mad:

EDIT: second least

[Amorbis]

Sorry to burst your bubble KGB, but we're actually in the 7th least populated county. But if you go by population density by km/2 we're the second smallest, after Northumberland. My nearest city is Lancaster, and that's not even in the same county!

So you still have a point, I'm not trying to say we don't have crap internet connections, I know we do. The internet in my house hasn't even been working properly for the past few days, keeps on connecting and disconnecting. The ping is quite large too from time to time, explains why I get a lot of lag.

[mdhay]

So that would explain why when we went on LBP it was laggy as hell.;)

[Spece2goin]

http://www.speedtest.net

choose a server, and test your ping here.

post your result.
Paris-Paris
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485526743.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Paris-New York (US East)
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485528022.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Paris-Los Angeles (US West)
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485529462.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Paris-Tokyo
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485528591.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

and the host in Tokyo is Fiber King so they have fiber...

[KIGO1987]

You want to see utter bullshit connection

[mdhay]

Ow, that's painful.

[KGB]

Sorry to burst your bubble KGB, but we're actually in the 7th least populated county. But if you go by population density by km/2 we're the second smallest, after Northumberland. My nearest city is Lancaster, and that's not even in the same county!

That's what I meant I think, second largest county, second least populated by square mile :D

http://www.speedtest.net/result/485580894.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Sorry I haven't a clue about this stuff. I could look up what it means but im sure someone will say if this is good or bad

[SaturnReturn]

My ping on the London server is 80ms. That's pretty shocking I guess, considering I live in a north London borough. To Maidenhead though it's about 40ms. How does all this work though? Shouldn't we be comparing ping for somewhere near the server we're communicating with? Where would the server for European WO players be?

[lunar]

KGB your download speed is pretty good, much quicker than mine, but your upload is very slow and much slower than I get. Your ping isn`t very good to London, also, I think. That download speed is a lot more than you need for gaming, but you could do with much faster upload I think. Not sure how you would achieve that short of moving house though. :(

Kigo I think it`s a wonder you can play at all with that speed, particularly across the world.

[KIGO1987]

Correct Lunar.

That i THE reason, not excuss why im choosing not to play HD online anymore, i can go through an entire race these days with ****ing zero from the weapon pads.

I quit the game, before i break the controller in rage.

This **** speed is barely ok for Pulse too, at least i do not have to deal with ****ing Vista pads in Pulse with my connection.

[LOUDandPROUD]

USA to USA
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485620866.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to England
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485622581.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to France
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485623888.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to Italy
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485624387.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to Spain
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485625626.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to Australia
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485626117.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

USA to Japan
http://www.speedtest.net/result/485626734.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Hmm...now what does it all mean LOL? I understand what download and upload mean, but I don't really get what ping is. All I know is the amount of dead/vista pads I encountered both yesterday and today were so numerous that I cut my sessions short in disgust. :blarg Oh, and up until 2 days ago, I had been using a wireless connection, but I'm now using a wired connection and haven't really noticed a difference in performance. :|

[Spece2goin]

OMFG! I want Cable too!!!!

ping is defined by the time taken for a packet you send, and the reply you receive from the server, in milisecond, the lower the better!
and 18 is awesome! around 100 or under 200 is OK to play woHD, that's you have for european servers, but think that are particular servers, not a player's PS3.
under 100 is needed for shooting games...
anyway, i never saw a 30MB/s download speed, but that's why i would pay cable, the max i had is 9 with ADSL2+ in France (actually using phone lines)
cable is too exensive and not installed everywhere.
waiting to have my house built in the next 10 years, and will try to have fiber direct to home! (yeah, i'm dreaming)


i paid 15€ for the whole year, but have to share my connection with 80 other users (which does not cause any problem regarding to what they do.) but we have 4 common installations. in fact, it's 30€ a month for one of these, with unlimited phone and TV...
cable is around 100€ a month...
how much do you pay for that in the USA LOUNDandPROUD?

[blackwiggle]

I got Sydney to Canberra
13.88mbps
.83mbps
Ping was 24ms

Sydney- London
1.26mbs
.22mbps
Ping 610ms

Sydney - NY-USA
.90mbs
.36mbs
Ping 257ms

Mind you it's peak hour internet traffic here ATM,I'll test again at my usual playing time as it's usually a bit faster.

OH KIGO that sucks bigger than an Electolux vacum cleaner OUCH!

[KIGO1987]

bullshit isnt it blackwiggle, Vista pads are forever out West:(

[blackwiggle]

How did DODO fair in the Whirlpool forum for internet connection in W.A. ?

I think a lot of your problems might stem for your ISP

[KIGO1987]

couldnt find it.

I rate them myself, they are a bunch of dodgy motherfukers i tell you.

**** it im going full blown ADSL2+ next 6mbps is what i want.

[blackwiggle]

Here's a list from the whirlpool forum that lists all the ISP's for W.A.

http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/?action=list&loc=5

Do you have a land line?
Just type in your phone number and it will give you a more specific result.
Not all ISP's will have ADSL2+ available from your nearest exchange.
You can search to find what your nearest exchange is,what type it is [rim etc] and if ADSL2+ is available to you.
http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/

W.A. Exchange guide.
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=AEG_WA

[LOUDandPROUD]

how much do you pay for that in the USA LOUNDandPROUD?

Costs me $62.95 a month, but I'd say it's worth it overall...to me anyway. :)

[Amorbis]

I wouldn't say my internet is too bad after looking at my Speed Test results.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/485907237.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

No more than I need speed wise, but the ping is a bit of a worry. If my ping is 100+ to London then I daren't think of what it'll be to Australia and when I'm racing poor Kigo :(.

[KIGO1987]

**** Amorbis i would be greatful for that speed;)

[silverfoxy]

My results are as follows -

Download - 9.72 mb/s

Upload - 0.47 mb/s

Ping - 26ms

Not sure if this is good or bad to be honest !!

[NightArh]

Latency is the main parameter. Almost all good ISPs give enough DL/UL speed to play online games...

I think Wipeout has good lag compensation system cos I am playing it without lags with 115ms latency (Kiev-London)

[Spece2goin]

i think 200ms is still good to play Wipeout, SL really did a good job on ping compensation.

to all of those who ask about ping :
<~200 : OK for wipeout
>100 : too bad for shooting game, latency causes your shoots to be delayed so it's hard to aim, especially in a fast FPS like Unreal Tournament.
<60 : über roxor ping, feels like LAN game, you won't gonna have problem, but that doesn't solve vista pads. (why "vista"? i never understand)

@silverfox : 26ms is not very common, it's very nice.


As i said, mind you send a ping request to a pro server, and its reply is really fast.
In wipeout, there is a master server, to wich you connect to select a game,
but AFAIK there are hosts, that means the players connect to the PS3 of the host, as a server. So host's ping, UL/DL are critical parameters because it has to send and receive information to and from all 7 other players connected.

[KIGO1987]

my area is so bullshit, they want $80bucks a month for 8mbps along with a very stingy data usage. Bastards.

My best bet is to go for a 1.5mbps for a 4gb-onpeak/8gb-offpeak data usage limit, this is $49 a month plus ****ing line rental.

Please tell me 1.5mpbs will be enough to eliminate all vista pads in online play. Cause if it isnt, im might just give up on Wipeout HD at this rate.

[LOUDandPROUD]

Apparently, it's not, because I'm running 30mbps and it doesn't prevent vista pads. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. :|

[KIGO1987]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccck kk!!!!

I hate Australian internet and it fuking lame connection speeds and stingy packages. Why cant Wipeout HD online play be the same as it was when it got first released back in September 2008. Where there was little lag and no Vista pads, all these firmware updates and game updates have ****d the game into a new zone.

Fuk this, Fuk it, ill do what i use to do back in the day for a thrill, do some burnouts and drifts in my car....... around the corner, neeeeeen neeeeeeen neeeeeen:g

[stin]

This is my speed test tonight, I`m actually a bit surprised over my speed connection!:eek, but actually I do inspected to be lower than that!

But nevermind.

stevie:)


http://www.speedtest.net/result/486238902.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

[KIGO1987]

Here's a list from the whirlpool forum that lists all the ISP's for W.A.

http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/?action=list&loc=5

Do you have a land line?
Just type in your phone number and it will give you a more specific result.
Not all ISP's will have ADSL2+ available from your nearest exchange.
You can search to find what your nearest exchange is,what type it is [rim etc] and if ADSL2+ is available to you.
http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/

W.A. Exchange guide.
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=AEG_WA

Those links are actually very useful:+

Now;

What the fuk is the difference between a "Dynamic" and a "Static" IP address for the user??????

[blackwiggle]

KIGO which ISP quoted you that?
Surely there must be a better plan available to you than that.

I pay $60pm for ADSL2+ 40gig download with Netspace ,I could change it to 60gig pm for the same price but the on/off peak hours change and I don't need that much.

The factors for you regarding what speed you get are.
Firstly if Landline phone line or unwired ISP connection

If phone line,then speed will vary due to these factors in this order
1]If ADSL2+ is available from your nearest exchange to your address/phone number .[the guy across the road might be able to get it,but it doesn't mean that you can]
2]If it is a full blown exchange or a RIM type
3]then it's the distance from your house to the exchange [you can check that using Google maps]
4]How good or bad your ISP is.[do they shape connection speed?]

You should just go through all the top rated ISP's for W.A,go to each of their websites,type in your landline phone number [if you have one] and that will tell you if they can provide you with ADSL2+.
Some will and some won't.

A Dynamic IP address changes the port number on your modem as required automatically.
A Static IP is a fixed port that is set for devices that need a dedicated port numbers [Xbox]

You can change these settings in your modems software.

[DeepMix]

well this is my current internet speed everyday

http://www.speedtest.net/result/486453107.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

when i was able to connect to wipeout online i never had any problem, the lag was almost 0

but now i cant connect and ive been waiting for SL to solve it :(

[BlochNWhitey]

I haven't had many vista pads that i've noticed recently on online races, though I've also been playing with americans recently. I used to have a few, but ever since the newest patch they seem to have gone down. As sort of a benchmark, I'll post my speed as well.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/486573893.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

[mic-dk]

My linespeed

http://www.speedtest.net/result/486574388.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

I see the occasional vista pad, but not enough to annoy me. I seriuosly don't think it has anything to do with linespeed, since joining another game will often make them go away. No matter if the host is in Copenhagen or Kyoto.

BTW dynamic/static IP has nothing to do with ports. It means if you get a, well, static IP from the ISP or they just assign you one from a pool of adresses. Static IPs are a finite commodity, and usually costs more. They're not really necessary unless you plan on running your mailservers/DNS etc.

[blackwiggle]

Your going to love this KIGO.

Here is a website that shows your local exchange [Doubleview] and all ISP's that supply ASDSL2+ from it.
The ones within a blue banner are the ones you should be looking at.
There's 13 of them.

http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/viewexchange.php?Exchange=DBLV

Click on the heat map function at the top of the map to see what speed you can expect from your address & same thing for the RIM function.
The maps legend is at the bottom.

I wouldn't take much notice of the "Bundled required" on a lot of those plans that are showing as there is usually a OPT out of bundling for a $10 extra fee per month,well there is on my Netspace ADSL2+ 40 plan [which is available to you in WA by the way]
Also just use those plans as a guide,as if you visit a ISP's website you can often see that plans can change from what's listed there,usually a better deal for you as the download limit is usually increased but the price stays the same [my limits been increased twice, Doubled in fact, without costing me anything more]

The tricky thing to watch out for is the length of the contract,and what it will cost you to get out of it if you need to.

You might be able to get "Naked ADSL2+",that is they use the phone lines already running to your house but the telephone is not actually connected,so no line rental fees.
That can be a bit of a quagmire, as the lines belong to TELSTRA,and you [and your ISP of choice] can have a very frustrating time getting it sorted.

[chboing]

indeed dont worry for static or dynamic IP: wont change anything for you unless you want to run a website or ftp or something on your computer.

[KIGO1987]

Your going to love this KIGO.

Here is a website that shows your local exchange [Doubleview] and all ISP's that supply ASDSL2+ from it.
The ones within a blue banner are the ones you should be looking at.
There's 13 of them.

http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/viewexchange.php?Exchange=DBLV

Click on the heat map function at the top of the map to see what speed you can expect from your address & same thing for the RIM function.
The maps legend is at the bottom.

I wouldn't take much notice of the "Bundled required" on a lot of those plans that are showing as there is usually a OPT out of bundling for a $10 extra fee per month,well there is on my Netspace ADSL2+ 40 plan [which is available to you in WA by the way]
Also just use those plans as a guide,as if you visit a ISP's website you can often see that plans can change from what's listed there,usually a better deal for you as the download limit is usually increased but the price stays the same [my limits been increased twice, Doubled in fact, without costing me anything more]

The tricky thing to watch out for is the length of the contract,and what it will cost you to get out of it if you need to.

You might be able to get "Naked ADSL2+",that is they use the phone lines already running to your house but the telephone is not actually connected,so no line rental fees.
That can be a bit of a quagmire, as the lines belong to TELSTRA,and you [and your ISP of choice] can have a very frustrating time getting it sorted.

Im so happy ADSL2+ is offered in my area, i might be lucky to have no Vista pads by the end of this working week.

Ive just looked at my exchange heat map, wtf does those glowing red, orange and green dots mean on the map, this stupid map doesnt have a legend on it so im not sure what they mean. Just that one of those red dots are extremely close to where i live thats all.

No, my area does not offer naked DLS, lines are owned by those Telstra bastards. So going to still have to pay line rental on the landline which ive managed to use a lot less these days, as since my mobile phone plan has more value per dollar.

Contract wise i might be going for a 12month contract over a 24month contract this time round, just thinking which has the best total data package i would like at a good price, that doesnt charge excess, and just brings the speed back down to 64kbps after you exceed your threshold.

[blackwiggle]

See when you get the Heat Map up,look directly underneath the map.
It gives you what the best case speed you will get.

Red dots=15001 +kbps
Orange = from 10,001- 14999 kbps
Yellow = 5001 - 10,000kbps
Green 1501 - 5000kbps
Purple less than 1500kbps

If your close to a red dot your laughing,means you can get top speed,if you are green or Purple move house because your stuffed internet wise.
It usually takes two weeks to get ADSL2+ connected by the way,and you will need a new modem/router,you can ask to have one sent - I recommend a 4 port one,probably a NetComm NB6Plus4 or a NetGear equivalent.

After looking at all plans available to you,your best option IMHO is to get the exactly the same ISP [Netspace] and Plan ADSL2+40 unbundled = $59.95pm ,40Gig a month should be plenty,if you got over your limit you stay connected but at Dial up speed,they also supply a Netspace accelerator program for their customers so that in the rare case the ADSL does go down you start that program up and use dial up but it is nearly as fast and you don't get charged for any downloads.