PS3 = epic fail?

[swift killer]

Sure it has been deemed widely as beeing 'the superior console' but recent figures show that PS3 is failing to sell (Wii: 40million, 360: 26million, PS3: 17million) and is being left far behind in the console war.

Probably due to economic crisis and an idiotically high price compare to other consoles. Also, Sony have completely failed to advertise and promote the console and it's games while we see 360 and Wii splashed all over our television screens frequently, where are the PS3 adverts? Nowhere to be seen. It would seem that things are getting pretty desperate for the console which some people described as being 'doomed to fail', that and dirty marketing tactics from Microsoft, who have endless money to throw at marketing stunts such as staging sales and special stands right next to the PS3's grand launch across the globe as well as endlessly slash the price of the 360.

Despite this, Sony fail to drop the price of its console or bother pulling out a marketing strategy to play catch up, with the recent failure to sell LBP it seems not even brilliant games can save this console and Sony seem to have given up, having recently confirmed the PlayStation 4 being in the pipeline. My personal feeling is that, despite being a strongly PlayStation biased person who absolutely hates the Xbox, the PlayStation brand may have had it's day and that not even games such as Killzone 2 and Gran Turismo 5 can help overtake and conquer it's rivals, and Sony has lost too many previosly exclusive titles to their rivals, games such as GTA and Tekken 6. I hope im wrong about this, but unfortunately, the things are going now I appear to be right.... *buys Wii/360*

[Axel]

At the moment that is how it looks. TBH if it wasn't for Wipeout I would not have touched the PS3. I would have kept my 360. I also have a Wii as well which I never get bored of for some reason. I always have my mates coming round you see lol.

Sony lost this console Gen because of their price, that's it. They failed to make a machine that is financially sound. Nintendo and Microsoft of sorts nailed it on the head. Offer something new or at least up to scratch. I'm not being funny but people are looking at the PS3 and wondering why this cost so much more than a 360 when the games look the same.

That's another problem, there are hardly any differences between the two. Also some reports state that a fairly large user base of the PS3 mainly use the console as a Blue Ray player. So you can imagine how the software sales for the console is doing.

And my last point, I really don't think Sony understands the online gaming market yet. They are half arsing everything which is annoying. I want to be able to invite people into my game GOD DAMMIT!!!

[AG-wolf]

Sony hasn't lost this generation solely because of their pricepoint on the machine, it's because they got arrogant and expected people to honestly pay for their ludicrously overpowered machine. When you spend five hundred bucks on it, you're getting a very powerful processor... but the company hasn't secured enough other game developers to make good games for it, not to mention the fact that the console is really hard to write code for in comparison to the 360 (Hmm, kind of the exact same scenario with the Saturn and the original Playstation, only now Sony's role is reversed). Sony thinks they can slap the name "Playstation" on something and people will just gobble it up, and it's finally shown that you have to put a lot more effort into this to make a good product. Microsoft, in contrast, has worked very hard to deliver a competent and capable platform that appeals to a very wide audience... even despite their bumbling launch with all the failing consoles, they STILL have clout and notoriety, and have managed to essentially "steal" series that were once Playstation-exclusive simply because the games' creators' recognize the 360 as a viable platform.

The fact that they also removed PS2 backward-compatibility is R. I. D. I. C. U. L. O. U. S. The Ps2 has been one of their most lucrative products, not to mention the fact that Sony themselves essentially made backward-compatibility an EXPECTATION of the gaming public when they released the PS2... Nintendo and Microsoft both followed suit... (yes I know the Genesis had the Power Base Converter so you could play Master System games, but come on, Master System was only really popular in the UK and Brazil) Everyone and their brother has a PS2, but that doesn't mean they're going to leave it hooked-up when they buy a new console. I was optimistic about the PS3 before it was released... I was more than willing to pay apx $400 for the console so I could play new games, still use my old PS2 games, and maybe even play PSP UMD games on it (an early mock-up I saw online suggested the possibility... I liked the idea :3 )... I also liked its media versatility with the flash card readers and stuff. But when it launched at like SIX HUNDRED BUCKS, it was a slap in the face... then they started REMOVING FEATURES just to bring the price down, and that's when I totally stopped paying attention.

The PS3 is a joke... it's wicked powerful, its predecessor has one of the largest installed user-bases in the videogaming world, Sony has some of the strongest brand-recognition with the "playstation" name and logo... and it all doesn't matter because they just can't do anything right with the machine.

The 360 may very well be the ultimate winner in this generation of consoles.... big user-base, wide variety of games for any audience, intuitive interface and an easy to navigate marketplace, a VERY fair price for what you get with your purchase.

The only reason the Wii is selling so well is because it's Nintendo. If you actually sit and PLAY games for the Wii, there are a very limited number of well-constructed high-quality titles. The virtual console is a nice idea for older games (Genesis, SNES, TG16, etc)... but I've honestly played all those old games enough at this point that if I REALLY wanted to play them again, I can load an emulator, or unbox my old consoles and haul them out for a day.

BUT GOD DAMNIT I WANT TO PLAY WIPEOUT.

[TheFrostE]

the popularity and selling numbers of a console have never stopped me from buying one. even if it is too expensive for some people. i just saved my money for an extra week or so from my job, then get it.popularity...well, i bought a DS over PSP, a dreamcast over PS2 and wii over 360 and PS3. and i had a great time with everyone that i bought. If YOU enjoy it, that's all that should matter, not if everybody else likes it, or its failing in the eyes of the public. i bought my PS3 when i picked up a psp and pulse and heard about HD. theres also a lot of gamers for ps3 i loooked forawrd to. stardust HD, LBP, alien colonial marines, MGS4, wipeout HD and the HOME feature is a masterpiece in the making.

in short...if your big into gaming, buy what you will enjoy and what caters to your type of gaming and dont worry about sales statistics or popularity.

[RJ O'Connell]

Every one of those systems has something really awful about them.

The Wii feels like a GameCube with motion sensor, and it's populated with tons and tons of awful "shovelware" games made for people who really don't know anything about video games - not as much as the DS, god forbid.

Xbox 360 though easily made popular with games like Halo 3 and Gears of War 2 (which, I might add, are overrun by 12-year-olds on Live) has a horrendous fail rate. And with all the f*cking ads that are on Xbox Live, shouldn't the online service cost much, much less than $60/yr? And don't start me on the Gold and Silver account bullshiat.

Then there's the PS3 - small game library (but don't listen to the "PS3 HAS NO GAEMS" trolls cos that's a load of crap), tons of delays due to games being harder to make (remember when we actually waited for Wipeout HD? For almost two years?), costs too much compared to the other two - and to cut costs, they've cut corners and ripped out PS2 compatibility. Remember when a price cut meant the system might potentially mean an improved system too?

And why the hell do I have to take out a mortgage to buy more controllers for all three systems? DUALSHOCK 3 costs $55 per unit in the states, an X360 Wireless is $50, same as a Wii-mote. All I want to do is have friends over to play games, but I'm gonna need to have a fundraiser before that happens apparently...

I can't be a console fanboy because I can actually see that all of them have flaws...

On the bright side, for the most part they're all really fun to play. See? There's something positive. :g

[Dark_Vincent]

I don't think the PS3 can be called an epic failure yet. It's facing a tough competition, but it's not doing bad at all. In fact, in comparison to the 360's second year the PS3 is actually OUTDOING it. How's that for an epic failure? Furthermore, there's no confirmation of a PS4 in the works. Not that there won't be one, but hardly anytime soon.

About the pricepoint, you can't judge a business strategy based on the product's price and sales alone. By that logic, Ferrari sucks, and so do all high-end cars. They are all too expensive and sell too little! You gotta realize that for each PS3 sold, the estimative says Sony loses 50 dollars. However for each 360 sold, MS loses more than that, and even more with repairs and researches in making the system more reliable. Nintendo is the only one that is profiting off each 'console' sold but they also have a different target market which is why I think people shouldn't place the Wii as a direct competition to the PS3 and the 360. It's like comparing sales between buses and cars. Doesn't make much sense.

The background compatibility decision was a controversial one indeed, but I can see their logic in that. "If you want a PS2, they are still there for sale, that's if you don't have one (hint: there's 132m PS2s sold)". They also did several surveys/researches that eventually led them to believe a very small portion of the PS3 userbase was actually using the console for old games. To me it didn't make a difference, but it would be nice to have that feature back somehow even though I won't be dying for it either.

For me the only sad fact about the console that I really consider to be a failure is the number of software sales. But in the end, I don't buy a console because of its popularity or sales numbers, I buy it for the games that interest me. Just like I might eventually buy myself a 360 for a few exclusives I want to play. It is a good machine with fun games after all.

Well I had a lot more to talk about, but I'm off to play some =)

[TheFrostE]

AG-Wolf posting on FrostE's comp (didn't wanna log him out)

Just saying with the advent of the Falcon, and now Jasper, motherboards in the 360, the failure rate has dropped to almost nothing. It was just an overheating issue that has long since been done away with... not to mention I just spend a week and a hald on my christmas/new year's break at a friend's house, playing hours on his launch model 360. The machine is very reliable now.

Live Gold is a little expensive, but you get a network that works with far fewer problems than the ones Ive had the few times I've done Sony online games.

[eLhabib]

Reliable? Tell that to the 2 brand new Elite models that have crapped out on me since last June! RROD is not cured yet. At all.

[TheFrostE]

Were they Zephyr or Falcon models? The Falcons are pretty much when the RROD problem dropped to nothing... early Zephyrs still had problems until M$ moved the RAM chips to a different location.

~AGW

[eLhabib]

No clue, honestly - probably the older one then...

[Dark_Vincent]

Actually Falcon still has about 10% failure rate. Jade is supposedly the one that dropped to 0, but that one came out when? Two months ago?

[Darkdrium777]

Well you could just not buy one and not enjoy WipEout HD, Little Big Planet, Uncharted 1 and 2, Rachet and Clank, Resistance 1 and 2, God of War, Warhawk, many sports game I don't know about, a lot of great PSN titles like Everyday Shooter, Super Stardust HD, Blast Factor, flOw, etc.

Man, you'll be missing out.

[Frances_Penfold]

Somehow I always end up supporting the "underdog" home console hardware-- last gen I was gamecube only :lol

+1 to the opinion that hardware sales shouldn't affect your enjoyment of a console. I sure do appreciate my PS3, much more than my Wii, for example.

But if you value third party support, it's definitely true that hardware sales matter-- especially in niche genres like RPGs and adventure games. I have been amazed at the support that the DS has gotten from the likes of Square-Enix and Atlus and other developers/publishers and that's all about having a major installed base. There's no doubt that software diversity on the PS3 will be less than it if PS3 was beating the Xbox 360 and Wii in hardware sales.


Sure it has been deemed widely as beeing 'the superior console' but recent figures show that PS3 is failing to sell (Wii: 40million, 360: 26million, PS3: 17million) and is being left far behind in the console war.

This is reasonable description of the situation but I don't understand why this is such a sudden revelation? It's been known since mid 2007, when it became apparent that Wii sales were accelerating, Xbox 360 sales were holding steady and the PS3 wasn't garnering a major foothold. Nobody should purchase a PS3 thinking they are on the "winning team"-- you should purchase it if it has games and media functions that you want :)

[AG-wolf]

darkdrium: but I have no interest in "Uncharted 1 and 2, Rachet and Clank, Resistance 1 and 2, God of War, Warhawk" or any of the PSN arcade games outside Super Stardust. ... and I don't exactly "enjoy" Wipeout HD :P at least not yet anyway.

Vincent; i've yet to hear stories about the Falcon dying on people, and I think you mean "jasper" not jade, but yes that one hit store shelves just a few months ago.

I still agree with the whole philosophy that it's the games that matter, not the platform. For me, I prefer 360 because it has the largest selection of games I want to play. My argument of preference for the 360 is different from my argument for why I think it's the most intelligent choice as far as consumer purchases go. In the end, it's just a matter of what games an individual person likes to play... I'm not personally saying the PS3 or Wii suck, they both have a target audience and purpose; it's just a situation where there are less than two games for each platform that I really want to play. My disgust with Sony's approach with the PS3 doesn't mean I think it's a piece of garbage, I just don't think it will be able to live to its potential.

[SuperNova]

Price and Backwards Compatibility Never Stopped me form buying one.
Put money Aside for a month or too and kept my Ps2 :P

[bik3rluke]

I'm a big PS3 fan -- it's certainly not a "fail"

[BulletWraith]

it depends what you mean by 'failure', If I was Sony I'd want my console to be in the lead by now and the PS3 is not in the lead, not by a long shot so that's a fail right there

and you can't compare the PS3 brand to Ferrari, you see Ferrari is not competing for the average persons money, the PS3 is. and Ferrari is making money on their product the PS3 is not

the reason I think it's failing is because Sony was far to arrogant coming into this Gen and that it has 2 worthy and aggressive competitors this time round, it's not like they are facing Dreamcasts or Gamecubes, this is serious

-zer0shen

[Darkdrium777]

darkdrium: but I have no interest in "Uncharted 1 and 2, Rachet and Clank, Resistance 1 and 2, God of War, Warhawk" or any of the PSN arcade games outside Super Stardust...Well that's your problem, not mine. Doesn't make the PS3 a 'fail' because you're not interested in the great games that are available on it. Doesn't make it smart to go ahead and post troll threads.
Enjoy your stuff, don't hate on those who enjoy something different. This discussion about which console is the best makes no sense at all. Enjoy your games, end.

[The Gracer]

Darkdrium - Reverse trolling only worsens the matter....rather than point the finger at someone and pick their view to shreds, let the other have his opinion.

Personally, i own an xbox because i find the online features more stable, and i dont mind paying for that. It doesnt bother me that certain games are only available on the other console. I also find the playstation controller (that, ill add, was awesome when i was 14) uncomfortable in my grown-person hands.

I plan on buying a PS3 when finance allows it.

[Harvai]

I agree on your last point Gracer - I want to get a PS3, but I have a 360 (that was cheaper) and right now I have all the games I want that are avaliable on both systems (and some that should - Ace Combat 6 360 only?)

The only thing I really want from the PS3 right now is WOHD. That and GT5 (whenever it gets released) This is too much an ask for one game. I did it for the PSP, but then again I have bought other games for that.

My other approach is that Sony have been complete dickwads over the PS3. Precious little advertising (Australia gets jack all vidja related advertising anyway), constant "We've got better bitz and gubbinz that the other two, that makes us the best" releases

(opposed to M$'s "The other two have better gubbinz than us, let's use them in our own system!")

And yo-yo'ing controller vibration and backwards-compatability:
"Everyone! The PS3 will have vibrating controllers and play old PS2 games"
"Sorry guys! no rumbling controllers, and some old PS2 games might not work all that well!"
"Right, us again! our controllers will vibrate again! WOO WOO!"

tl;dr I'd buy a PS3 if it was cheaper and Sony decided on what the machine will exactly do. But is it epic fail? I'd think not. It buried HD-DVD, and it hasn't got the Halo series, which M$ constantly reminds us of. It'll be a cold day in hell when I finally shell money for Halo 3...

[kanar]

I'm a Sony geek from the start. They made history. But they made a "mistake" when they thought everybody could buy a ps3 (context : worst economic crisis of the history), so the good third party friends began to look around (I miss ace combat too!). That's sad really, but fact is : too expensive. Wipeout Hd is the best game ever for sure, GOW & Killzone 2 will set new standards (resolution, framerate, Bill will be pissed off lol)... but not for everyone. The worst thing is they can't cut the price of their stuff (production costs). Vicious circle... & I'm not sure these new customers like universities (for fundamental research) or mafias (for breaking codes) could change something...

[AG-wolf]

Well that's your problem, not mine. Doesn't make the PS3 a 'fail' because you're not interested in the great games that are available on it. Doesn't make it smart to go ahead and post troll threads.
Enjoy your stuff, don't hate on those who enjoy something different. This discussion about which console is the best makes no sense at all. Enjoy your games, end.

I'm not trolling, you're just taking this personally for some reason and getting bent out of shape :P Relax man. I didn't say the games are bad, I just said they don't appeal to me at all. And I'm not hating on people just because they like something different :P

[Darkdrium777]

I'm not trolling, you're just taking this personally

Yeah, I'm taking this personally, because this **** has NOTHING to do on WZ IMHO. :- Personally, I don't want this to ever be a flame war.


Darkdrium - Reverse trolling only worsens the matter....rather than point the finger at someone and pick their view to shreds, let the other have his opinion.An opinion? Sure, I don't say that people who don't like the PS3 are wrong (I have friends who don't like it, so what?), I'm just saying that posting this kind of stuff is wrong. Seriously, someone actually cares if swift-killer likes the PS3 or not? I don't. I have seen how this type of thread derails before, and I assure you it ain't pretty. I'm just trying to warn everyone about what a mess this can become. Which is why I answer back to AG: he doesn't like the PS3, that's fine. Doesn't mean that everyone has the same idea as him. Like I said, you bought that system because you like the games on it, I'm fine with that, but please just enjoy your games. There is no argumentation to be had about which system is the best, IMHO.

[AG-wolf]

Yeah, I'm taking this personally, because this **** has NOTHING to do on WZ IMHO. Personally, I don't want this to ever be a flame war.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/7894/otddz8.jpg
Again, dude, you're the only one getting bent out of shape. Relax :) This isn't a thread of people chewing each other out, it's just people either chiming-in or disagreeing, and actually offering reasons and examples for how they feel. It may not be entirely objective, but it's at least a discussion with relevant points made from multiple angles.

[eLhabib]

Relax, Darkdrium! Right now, you're the one turning this into a flame war.

[JABBERJAW]

I think 17 million units will keep sony up and running. While the system is a good deal, it is just too much money. Although, if they had an unlimited supply at launch to sell, they might be in second place right now. I don't know how many people who got pissed they couldn't find a ps3 a month after the release, then just went and bought the xbox

[Darkdrium777]

Relax, Darkdrium! Right now, you're the one turning this into a flame war.

Ahh you're probably right. I guess that visiting too many websites for PS3 news has this effect on your sanity. :/ I've seen this derail so much into pointless arguing and insulting that I fear for the worse now. :( I forget that WZ is a much more reasonable community. :P

[The Gracer]

Reasonable? Sane is a better word :P

(OMG WTF D00D NO WAI REASONABLE IS WAI BETTR!!11)

(REASONABLE 4 LYFE!!!1! SANE SUX ASS!!)

Its all just another way to do the same thing, in the end.

[Dark_Vincent]

According to David Reeves they aren't bothered by the low sales atm because their focus on short term is profitability. Sounds reasonable to me. Dunno if the PS2 didn't profit enough off software sales (back then they had the same strategy MS has now). Whatever it is, as long as there are good games I want coming out for it I'm fine. Every third-party has gone Multiplat anyways, I would be more worried if the PS3 pulled a GameCube, but it's looking more like a Mega-Drive/Genesis to me (which was my console of choice back in the early 90s, and I don't regret one bit) except it has superior hardware unlike the Mega Drive back then.

Imo if Sony wants to lower the starting price and maintain the profitability plan, they should release a bundle like the Arcade pack. No features whatsoever. Take out wifi, put only 10~20gb HDD, a blu-ray player that only plays games, not movies (kinda like Wii's DVD reader) and push it for the same price as their rival. =P Seriously the Arcade is basically a carcass of a 360 ~.~ I don't know how people fall for that. I guess it's the same people that still buy "Dynavision" here (a Brazilian console that has over 100 NES and Atari games in its memory) or the re-release of Mega Drive and Master System (except with awful controllers and design).

[mdhay]

Truth be told, I don't understand why all this is going on. I admit, I am a Sony Fanboy, but you know, I just can't stand Microsoft* because I keep getting screwed over by them, being made to pay through the arse for another computer only for windows update to screw it up half a year later, never have I been screwed over by Sony. (My other PS3 broke on my account)

*I have nothing against xbox, but rather, the company that made it.

[AG-wolf]

mdhay, remember- the Windows and Xbox camps are almost totally separate entities... with the NXE launch in November, M$ did try to make a more cohesive experience with the 360 and windows integration, but they're still managed by separate in-house development groups.

As far as windows screwing up someone's computer, I think that's all in how a person uses it. I've been using the same chintsy $300 Compaq I bought at staples over 4 years ago, and have only had to reinstall windows 4 times. once was a security issue which was entirely my own fault, and the other 3 times were when I purchased new hard drives and updated my system :P I don't know how windows update screwed your computer (unless you had an AMD processor and it installed Service Pack 3 before the patch for AMD CPUs was released), but software doesn't damage hardware, and can re-installed if necessary. Granted general computer usage dictates you shouldn't have to, but it happens once in a while.

I'm not making excuses for the 360's initial hardware malfunctions, though- that's sheer and plain short-sightedness. Before the console was even launched, the issue was found during production and addressed multiple times, always to be disregarded by the Powers That Be since they just wanted to move forward. It bit them in the ass quite obviously until they worked the problem out.

I don't think Sony fans have exactly been "screwed over by Sony" as much as some of them might have just been disappointed or let-down. I know I certainly was... I love PSX and PS2, and really wanted the PS3 to wow me all over... but they delayed, then M$ got the 360 out the door first and set a number of benchmarks and standards for both the next-gen game market and home entertainment market, and when PS3 finally launched there were very few reasons to buy one outside of Blu-ray capabilities and a handful of exclusive IPs (MGS, Gran Turismo) which I don't personally care about. The PS3 seems to be focused more on the diehard Sony consumers who already exist, rather than 360 and Wii's approach of getting as many people involved as possible.

[KIGO1987]

Microsoft are bastards, and i hate them as much as i hate this fuking hot weather at the moment.

PS3 = Failure is BS.

Heres better short term equations everyone can acknowledge;

Microsoft = Cheap

360 = Faulty

Vista = Cheap & Faulty

[AG-wolf]

Sounds like me when I used to be a Mac zealot.

I'm not gonna bother trying to defend M$ or their products, I'll just say I've never had any issues myself, so I've got no complaints.

PS3 isn't exactly "epic fail," but I WILL say from a technical standpoint the PS3 controller design/manufacturing process needs to be streamlined... I just took one apart to clean it and DAMN it was a PAIN IN THE ASS. All kinds of tiny little unnecessary pieces of plastic... I can't wait til they figure out how to lower production costs and make it simpler inside :P

[Axel]

I like all my three consoles for they all provide things that i need. Wii for my Nintendo and new games, 360 for xbox live (it's really good guys) and PS3 for wipeout. I wont lie to you guys, if it wasn't for wipeout I wouldn't have bothered with the console.

But now I can use it as my media machine and blue ray player which is a neat addition :).

[Harvai]

I'm not gonna bother trying to defend M$ or their products, I'll just say I've never had any issues myself, so I've got no complaints.

Same here. I've heard the same 360 = RROD trollbait over and over again. I've had my 360 for 8 months, and the only thing to go wrong is the strum bar on my GHWT controller. (This JUST happened, and on my birthday, too :mad: )

Personally, I could do without the NXE, in which M$ gave me Sony's XMB and Nintendo's Miis, without giving me an XMB and some Miis, if you know what I mean...

[infoxicated]

I believe, by the numbers, that the PS3 is ahead of the PS2 at the same point in its lifecycle and the PS2 had no direct competitor for the best part of its first two years. The PS2 also enjoyed the exclusivity of Grand Theft Auto 3, which sold completely ridiculous numbers and was #1 all formats for the best part of a year.

In comparison, the PS3 is up against both the 360, which came out a year before it, & the Wii. So up against that competition it's doing just fine.

Sony also understands it's a long distance race, not a sprint - I remember David Reeves saying that it was all about Xmas 2009, not Xmas 2008, so the game has only just begun and some wishful thinking internet fanboys and a collection of journo's who know dick about the games industry* are declaring it all over?

(*By that I mean journo's who know even less about the games industry than actual games industry journo's, who don't know much themselves.)

Pah!

I think the PS3 will just be getting up to full stride when Microsoft are, once more, curtailing the life of one Xbox to announce the next one, which is bad for the industry and the consumer.

Anyone declaring it over and done with already is either deluded or on the payroll of Microsoft.

[kanar]

I really hope we could illustrate this long distance race vision feb 25 for exemple, with Killzone2. I still believe I could be impressed by my ps3 in the near future.

[swift killer]

Anyone declaring it over and done with already is either deluded or on the payroll of Microsoft.

Gamespot? lol

[mdhay]

Pulse?

[Axel]

I'm a bit skeptical about this long distance race. All M$ have to do is offer everything PS3 has and some more. Lets be honest guys, the 360 does have the better library of hardcore gamer type games. And to say that they are not in competition with the Wii is suicide. I mean all Nintendo has to do is up the anty in developing hardcore games and the PS3 could be in more trouble.

I remember some Sony exec stating that the life span they had for the PS3 would be 10 years which is fantastic for the industry. But if M$ and Nintendo carry on with the 4-5 year life cycle of consoles, then i think Sony may have to rethink their plans.

Really and truly I would hate to have to purchase a new PS3 in three years time because a new model has new and enhanced features. I'm just saying that Sony needs to rethink their strategy fast because certain exclusives are leaving them behind and going multiplatform. Meh I'm just bitter that my PS3 wont play PS2 games :P

[Mu5]

I read that Ninty are indeed developing a 'HD' Wii-2

As for PS3 - I knew it was a bad sign when Ken Kutaragi fell asleep during the PS3 launch presentation :D

Check this out -

http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why-ps2-succeeded-and-why-ps3-will-fail-823140/

Pretty much sums it up

[JABBERJAW]

how exactly would the wii ante up to the hardcore gamers. Not really possible with that system, although, they at least should be putting out some good nintendo games, which they haven't been for a while now. And please dont tell me nintendogs is coming out so and so or even pokemon. I'd like to see some good games besides mario, zelda and metroid by nintendo. How about an fzero without snake (read: ass) techique

[AG-wolf]

When a new F-Zero hits the Wii, I'll buy one again :P

[Axel]

The Lord knows I've been waiting for a new F-zero!!! But yeah, snaking pretty much killed that game for me. F-zero GX was cool though in it's own special way :)

But TBH I want a new Metroid and Zelda game. I'm a sucker for Zelda games TBH :)

[infoxicated]

http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why-ps2-succeeded-and-why-ps3-will-fail-823140/

Pretty much sums it up
So a speculative article from more than two years ago, back before the RROD debacle, back before Blu-Ray was the only HD format in town, with little in the way of facts or evidence to back up the author's view that he's out-thought one of the biggest consumer electronics companies in the world "pretty much sums it up" for the current situation in January 2009.

Well **** me - people really have stopped thinking for themselves since the internet came along. :|

[Axel]

LOL it's so damn true. I saw that date on that blog and though, damn. That guy must be good with his stocks lol.

He saw what was coming and to be fair, with hindsight he was right. At then i might have thought it was a bit much, especially after seeing what the Wii was all about. But hey, this industry is so unpredictable that it's silly. But Sony will pull through after it cuts all the fat.

[Darkdrium777]

Ya see what I meant now? I hope you do. This article is the kind of BS I was trying to warn you about by saying that this thread shouldn't even have been posted. The fanboy stuff like this is frankly annoying. As I said, enjoy your games...:|

[mdhay]

how exactly would the wii ante up to the hardcore gamers. Not really possible with that system, although, they at least should be putting out some good nintendo games, which they haven't been for a while now. And please dont tell me nintendogs is coming out so and so or even pokemon. I'd like to see some good games besides mario, zelda and metroid by nintendo.

Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission is good!

[omega329]

Ya see what I meant now? I hope you do. This article is the kind of BS I was trying to warn you about by saying that this thread shouldn't even have been posted. The fanboy stuff like this is frankly annoying. As I said, enjoy your games...:|

are you talking about the gearlive article? Because I found it very well balanced and non-fanboyish. In my opinion, it's a bloody good article with a great prediction as to the state of the market, and the title of the article shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Anyway, each to their own, I'll believe what I want to believe...

[JABBERJAW]

that's what I said, good games besides those three

[mdhay]

Sorry mate, I didn't read it right.

[Darkdrium777]

are you talking about the gearlive article?Yes, I am.
Some points he make are true. Some others, not so much.
For one I don't know if we've watched the same E3s, but from what I recall Sony's presentations have never been 'meh' like he says for the last three years. Particularly, I think 2008 (If it is 2008 where they show all the games for PSP, PS2, PS3 and PSN) was pretty amazing. Nintendo, on the other hand, has been boring two years straight. MS was good for I think two years (The headstart one and the following), although I can't recall. After, well apart from the FFXIII announcement there was basically nothing but Halo, Fable and Gears. The other games are either multiplatform or PC releases as well.
The Wii launched on the same week as the PS3, I wouldn't call that a headstart like the author does.
Also, don't give me BS about 'no innovation'. The XBox 360 is relatively speaking a game console, just like the PS1. It plays games, that's about what it does (If we place ourselves back when the article was written, now it is different obviously.) Compare that to what the PS3 did at launch: it was already destined to be your media center, with CD-rip, blu-Ray, flash cards, HDD compatibility and extensibility, Internet, Linux install, the works. Sure, the motion was inspired from the Wii, but that's it. And comparing the graphics of the fresh PS3 with the year old XBox is wrong, and always has been. You want a fair comparison, compare launch to launch (Which wasn't done ever during that period).
The point about blu-Ray is also ridiculous. I won't even get into it. 'Who needs blu-Ray?' they said. The answer is: 'Consumers and the industry do'. Sure, there's still DVD up ahead, but people are already switching to HD, it's only a matter of time before blu-Ray overtakes. And if the industry is smart, it'll wait and let it happen, to make maximum profit over blu-Ray before putting out the new tech (HDV).
It isn't the most fanboyish of articles and I will agree with that, but it's still on the 'hate the PS3' bandwagon that was going on two years ago, which is slowly but surely coming to a grinding halt.
We'll see what happens in Feb '09. As a matter of fact, stuff already happened last year at the end, with the big games and big sequels coming out.

[AG-wolf]

Okay, you know why PS3 is a joke? You know why it's "epic fail"?

Because in the FOUR DAYS I've owned this machine, it has frozen and crashed on me over five times- and the last time it froze, it deleted my god damned save file for HD so now all the work I did sitting through the tedium of campaign mode to unlock everything has been completely reset.

The XMB lags like crazy when I try to do ANYthing, where-as when I press the Xbox Guide button on the 360, it comes up instantly and responds to everything I need to do with it.

The entire interface and menu commands are totally unintuitive compared to the 360; and where it would take me ten seconds between games to fire off a message to someone, I'm stuck wading through convoluted options just to type something real quick between races and I'm lucky if I can finish before the next race countdown.

People can like the machine all they want, they can hope for it to impress and wow the masses, but for ME? I expect much more out of the FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS I spent on this piece of garbage. The Compact Flash card reader is already half broken, too! I haven't dealt with ANY of these kinds of problems with the 360; my Xbox has been a very straight-forward and user-friendly experience from the moment I took it out of the box.

Say whatever you want about the PS3; but from personal experience, from using the damned thing MYSELF, I've already dealt with enough to justify my claims of it being a piece of trash. I would rather have put the 400 dollars toward a nice HDTV to play my 360 on or to start building a new computer.

Edit: and a side note, WTF can't I play a DEMO of anything in the PSN Store? I can't get an idea of what the PSN arcade titles are like if I'm just stuck watching some preview video... am I missing something?

[mdhay]

You haven't activated your PS3.

[Darkdrium777]

Hmm AG-Wolf, I've never had any of the problems you describe. The PS3 only froze on Assassin's Creed for me, because it's a flawed port (I think the game eventually chugged down to displaying 3FPS twice during normal play :o). You won't like it but maybe your unit is malfunctioning?
I can't say anything about you not being able to use the XMB, I find it very intuitive (It won an award for being like that too) and it doesn't take me very long to type some message between races. Of course the first time you want to chat with someone you have to scroll to them in the contact list, but after the settings are saved so you don't scroll anymore, and you can also hit 'Reply'. Can't say anything about the lag either, for me it works really well in games.
There's one thing that could be added and that would be an option to send a message to someone you're playing with, but IMHO that's all what it needs... I don't know why it doesn't work for you. :(

[infoxicated]

Gee, I must look on some motoring websites for more of the same - I guess I could contribute in a similar way;

<negative fanboyism>I once had a Ford Sierra - couple of times it failed to start, and it was rusty, too, and it had very poor fuel economy. Despite the fact that my experience has come from the ownership of one Ford Sierra, I refuse to accept that anyone could ever have had a positive experience of a Ford Sierra, nor could they possibly derive any enjoyment from owning one.</negative fanboyism>

<positive fanboyism>I currently own a Honda Jazz. It has never let me down, never failed to start, has fantastic fuel economy. I therefor refuse to accept that anyone could ever have had a negative experience from owning a Honda Jazz. Despite the millions sold, I cannot possibly imagine anyone ever having a negative experience from owning a Honda Jazz now or in the future, because my one is great.</positive fanboyism>

Oooh. Such fun. :dizzy

[AG-wolf]

mdhay; what do you mean?

fox; I can accept that people enjoy the PS3 and others can also dislike the 360, Im just expressing my own standpoint from the experience I've had thus far. Also, my problem with the PS3's dashboard cannot be likened to the ford/honda comparison because getting another PS3 won't change the dashboard I have to work with. Also, Fit FTW
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1814/fityf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/fityf2.jpg/1/w219.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img183/fityf2.jpg/1/)
(too cold to go outside and take a picture of the real thing ;) )

[Darkdrium777]

Well Rob, it's maybe because we have the same PS3 model. But I've been on the PSU (Now PSN) forums for quite some time and I've never heard of any of the problems he describes. Sometimes a guy with the blu-ray drive not working, sometimes a guy who tries to open the non-existant flap on his PS3 to access the card readers with a hammer and a chisel (:lol), but not someone who's had it this bad with the PS3. He's basically having three problems in one... :(

[mdhay]

AG - Wolf: Go to account management. It will be there.

[AG-wolf]

mind you, back in the day my friend kept trying to emphasize his absolute love for unix, its stability, its functionality, its versatility.. he had a machine running for at least a month and he had me sit down to try my hands with it... it froze in five minutes when I was just browsing the web or something ludicrously simple. Needless to say, I was not impressed. This same friend also bought a Sega Genesis after much deliberation (he was an SNES devout), because it came with Sonic Spinball and he actually enjoyed the game. The model Genesis he got was from a very short production run where the AC adaptor jack had a cold solder joint and the power wouldn't always make connection- he totally wrote off Sega from that point onward.

We're all human, we're all influenced by personal experience. I was initially skeptical and underwhelmed with what the PS3 had to offer from everything I had read/seen/etc; and now having bought one, I feel that way even more. Jesus, I was just doing a campaign race and the signal from my controller must have dropped or something because out of nowhere it stopped responding and just made my ship turn straight into the right side of the track for six seconds. Seriously... not... amused. Im gonna go driving in the snow we're getting and hit up some game stores, see if I can find something worthwhile to buy for the PS3.

Edit: mdhay; what does activating it do though?

[mdhay]

I think it makes sure you can't illegally distribute content or something.

[Darkdrium777]

About the controller disconnecting: buy a Dualshock 3. It doesn't have this problem. My two Sixaxis do however.

Activating means you can use purchased content on the PS3. If you download WipEout HD, your system should already be activated.

[Mu5]

"pretty much sums it up" for the current situation in January 2009.

Well **** me - people really have stopped thinking for themselves since the internet came along. :|#

No - pretty much sums up why the PS3 is an Epic Fail.

Im not sure what you are meaning about stopping thinking for ones self :) I simply agree with points made in that article on why its a failure.

[infoxicated]

And, in that case, the article is so vague that you'd already made your mind up and it was simply confirmation of what you were expecting. I'd even go as far as to say that was why you read the article in the first place - you want confirmation of your complete and total tunnel vision on the matter.

You're not going to convince me that you've truly thought it through and formed your opinion from a wealth of evidence if the best you can offer is a sweeping statement and a smiley.

If you actually wanted to debate it and to convince me that the PS3 is a failure two years into it's lifecycle then you're going to have to provide me with some numbers.

By what scale is it a failure? In comparison to what? How do its sales differ from the projections that the company made? To what extent is the cost of production met by the retail price and the profit? Are the software profits lower or higher than expected? Are the sales of other hardware (in this case the PS2 & PSP) and their respective software sales allowing the company to comfortably absorb any incurred costs from the PS3? (You know, because Sony is the company that actually still supports its previous generations of hardware rather than pretending they ever existed, a la XBox & Gamecube)

Maybe even some evidence that Sony is considering slashing the cost of the hardware and software in a desperate, last-ditch attempt to shift the platform because they know the anonymous, flame-war lovin' folks on the internet are right?

That kind of thing?

Facts. Figures. Information on the subject.

In this case you've brought an article (which in itself is the equivalent of bringing a vaguely cheesy sandwich to a gun fight) and decided it's all the evidence you need to prove you are right and that a company with over half a century of pedigree in making, marketing and selling consumer electronics clearly needs the help of you and other, likeminded individuals to advise them on the error of their ways.

Which, to my mind, pretty much sums up why this exact topic is an "epic fail", as the kiddies say, whenever and where ever it's posted on the net.

[Mu5]

Im not sure how I could convince you apart from sending you an xbox and a gold xbox live account :) If you play and compare both it will rapidly be apparent that 'epic fail' sums the PS3 up quite nicely.

That article seems to touch upon each of the issues for its failure quite well. Ok it is two years old - but not that much has changed in those two years.

Comparing sales figures to the PS2 lifecycle is a waste of time also - back then it never had a rival console which delivered better games and way better online functionality. Back then the PS2 rocked - a pale comparison to now.

By what scale is a failure? Erm - it doesnt rock my world. Then its a failure. Dont get me wrong, HD has been great, but I find very little else exciting.

I didnt think I needed to bring a gun to this thread :D or needed to prove to anyone else my opinion was correct.

Here are a few of the reasons that, for me, it is an Epic Fail.

- No 'WOW' Factor (Point 5) AKA No 'Killer Apps'. OK, we now have HD. After waiting how long?

- Basic online functionality is non existant - For an example (from a long list) I cant even invite a friend into my game at any time? Are you having a laugh? :)

- The waiting game you have to play as it updates itself. Whoever invented the word 'Delaystation' summed it up beautifully.

Thats why I agree its a failure.

I just a quick look and I seen that a few books have been published in Japan on this subject e.g Why did the PS3 Fail? (Link: http://kotaku.com/gaming/paper-stuff/new-japanese-book-asks-why-ps3-failed-297947.php )

I would love to read it. Im sure there are a few juicy statistics in there for you :)

[Darkdrium777]

I didnt think I needed to bring a gun to this thread :D or needed to prove to anyone else my opinion was correct.The thing is, your opinion isn't prevalent to anyone else's. If you think what you post is fact, well it really isn't. It's your opinion, saying it's fact is BS and that's what I was calling out earlier. This behavior is being a blinded fanboy, sorry.
You need to appreciate both sides of the coin, and if you did that, well you would've already noticed that all consoles have their flaws. Heck, if you don't call out the X360 for the massive and systematic RRoD of the first gen units, that's being a twat. Sure, it has more games than the PS3 (The number isn't that crushing though), but can you actually play them? Not if your system bites the dust every time you insert a disc in it.

And:


Basic online functionality is non existant - For an example (from a long list) I cant even invite a friend into my game at any time? Are you having a laugh?Have you ever played Motorstorm Pacific Rift? Guess not. :|

[Mu5]

I think it is a failure -fact. It just never delivered on its promises, Im sure the non-fanboys will agree.

The thing is, I dont understand what you are talking about in that first response :D How are defects in the Xbox 360 in any way relevant to PS3 being a failure? (remembering this is in a number of areas including hardware costs, lack of must-have-games, loss of exclusives...need i go on?)

Yes I have played Pacific Rift - Nice game :)

[Darkdrium777]

The thing is, I dont understand what you are talking about in that first response :D How are defects in the Xbox 360 in any way relevant to PS3 being a failure?Well, you seem to be pretty contempt with criticizing the PS3... Why can't you see that the X360 also has problems, and therefore that neither system is perfect?!? As I said, it's being oblivious to facts. It's being stupid. People call out the PS3 for not delivering on some points. Well, unless I am mistaken, and having the system fail six months in was a promise, M$ didn't exactly deliver on hardware quality did they?:|


Yes I have played Pacific Rift - Nice game :)
Evidently not enough, 'cause you'd know you can invite friends across games (The invitation is sent with a PSN message). Oh yeah, LittleBig Planet happens to have that too if I recall correctly. Another moot point.:|

[rdmx]

He means that it's should be implemented in every game, eg I can invite someone to my wipeout hd or rainbow six (example) game.

[The Gracer]

-_-

Does this really need to continue?

its only heading in one direction...

[infoxicated]

I think it is a failure -fact.
I think your entire contribution to this thread reeks of failure. Fact. :D


How are defects in the Xbox 360 in any way relevant to PS3 being a failure?
Because, in the absence of any actual substance in your "arguments" aside from the mention of how great you think your Xbox 260 is, we're going to have to assume that you're comparing the PS3 against the Xbox 360.

Otherwise (likely) you're simply declaring something a failure because you don't like it, not because it compares poorly to something else. Like I said before; "by what measure is it a failure?"

If you don't compare the N-Gage against anything at all then it can't be declared a failure, can it? But the second you compare it to the DS or even the hip-to-hate PSP, it's a crash between a tortoise truck and a terrapin lorry. A turtle disaster.

Which is why those of us who are trying to have a discussion on the subject are trying to determine the playing field. So, if you're only going to carry on repeating yourself then please just leave the discussion on this discussion forum to those who are willing to bring something to the table other than their own ego and the word "fact".

If we can't raise ourselves above the usual mud slinging found elsewhere on the internet, then, as the man above says, it's only heading in one direction down pointless street to locked topic town.

[Darkdrium777]

He means that it's should be implemented in every game, eg I can invite someone to my wipeout hd or rainbow six (example) game.The thing is that Sony cannot infringe patents in the US. MS patented how the XBox works, so that's why Sony has to find alternatives. The alternative they found was that it is up to the game developer to implement this function in their games. It is obvious that it is possible, because Motorstorm Pacific Rift and I think LittleBig Planet have it, but it cannot be made for all games because that would infringe Microsoft's patent.
It sucks, I agree with that. But hey, whoever called Microsoft Micro$oft was right. ;)

[b4p]

going by Mu5's arguments the Wii is also a failure

[Mu5]

lol - how do you work that one out? :D

BTW I dont love my xbox 260 - it has been sitting with RROD for the last 5 months :D LOL

[Axel]

I see where your coming, even though I don't have my 360, I do agree that gaming and online wise, XBOX360 has got it. But as a media machine, I'm loving my PS3 which I initially wasn't getting it for. I guess once u purchase a HDTV you really need to utilise the damn thing :).

But I guess in Sony terms the PS3 at the moment is a failure since it hasn't lived up to the expectations they thought it would. If they said this is how the planned the console to be then they would be lying. But guys, the console wars ain't over. The battle for 2nd place still goes on :P

[BulletWraith]

I fully agree with Axel,
it depends on the point of view, taking Sony's POV is logical since it's their creation and I'm pretty sure that so far it hasn't come close to what they had envisioned it to be by now, be it how well it's selling, how it's competing with M$ and if the thing is even turning a profit yet
so as far as Sony's concerned I think it's a fail


as far as being a good product or whether its better(power/features/price etc) than a xbox or wii is not part of this argument

Q: is it as successful as Sony had imagined it to be?
A: No
= Fail

Churr

-Stevie
(PS3 Rules!!!)

[Harvai]

How are defects in the Xbox 360 in any way relevant to PS3 being a failure? (remembering this is in a number of areas including hardware costs, lack of must-have-games, loss of exclusives...need i go on?)

I don't see how 'must-have games' can make or break a system. I prefer to have choice in what I buy, not the latest game the games websites are hyping up. Not everyone who bought a 360 wants to play Halo 3 or Gears of War, same as not everyone with a PS3 has to buy Metal Gear Solid 4 or Little Big Planet.

[KIGO1987]

Sony has for the first time in 14 years is forecast for an annual loss. Fuk.

PS3 needs to pick up sales or it'll be appart as Sony's products of failure. Includes Betamax, MiniDisc, and Universal Media Discs. But one thing is good Blu Ray kicked HD DVDs arses to kindom come nearly a year ago. This one feature that makes it truely unique to the rest of the competition.

[b4p]

Q: is it as successful as Sony had imagined it to be?
A: No
= Fail

you mean the PS3 didnt live up to the hype put out by Sony's out-of-control over-the-top marketing department? NO WAY!

[Frances_Penfold]

Lord knows I loves me the PS3 and the PSP but in the interest of fairness...



By what scale is it a failure? In comparison to what? How do its sales differ from the projections that the company made? To what extent is the cost of production met by the retail price and the profit? Are the software profits lower or higher than expected? Are the sales of other hardware (in this case the PS2 & PSP) and their respective software sales allowing the company to comfortably absorb any incurred costs from the PS3?


Sony financial records suggest that the games division is operating 3-4 billion dollars in the hole since 2005'ish. PS3 hardware continues to be sold at a loss (admittedly much less than at launch) and is clearly destined for third place for overall hardware sales (admittedly not in Japan). Financial analysts generally doubt that Sony will make up the money invested in designing and developing the PS3 hardware.

Sony is in a tough spot-- if you they drop the hardware price at retail, they gain market share but loose more money-- if they keep the hardware price high, they continue to loose market share and loose less money. Sony might want to "jump-start" the next hardware generation but are probably limited by the current worldwide recession and shareholder discontent with the under-performing games division.

I hate the word "failure" because its so loaded with meanings. Ultimately, only Sony management knows the details of their initial plans and execution, what went right and what went wrong. Personally, I really like the PS3 hardware as well as its software, and think that Sony deserves to be doing better than it is.

Still, the consensus of industry watchers is that Sony is in a really bad spot financially and is operating with a sales model (hardware sold at a loss + razor thin margins on software) that only works when you have an absolute blockbuster console system, which the PS3 clearly isn't. Maybe it'll be worth it for establishing Blu-Ray as the de facto distribution system for HD content-- that's unclear at the moment because of low market penetration for HDTVs and advances in digital distribution options.

[The Gracer]

Sony ARE in a tough spot - rumor has it that they are pulling their TVs out of the New Zealand market if they dont get market share back before the end of the year...which they lost for the first time in a great deal of years just recently.

Francis, thanks for expanding the few points that Foxxy made - very rarely do you hear about the behind the scenes reasons for a console being supposedly better than the other, and not many people understand the financial stress behind it.

[Axel]

It's just bad timing with the economy going downhill and the fact that Microsoft and Nintendo had a better strategy than Sony to begin with.

Sony is faced with a bad dilema but I know them guys are stupid rich. Yes they are losing money, but the PS brand is one they wont drop. Even in their economic situation.

[infoxicated]

Lord knows I loves me the PS3 and the PSP but in the interest of fairness...
Who was being unfair?

I was merely stating that if it was worth debating then it was worth debating it like grown ups and not teenagers. Thanks for doing so. :+

If we're going by financial numbers then the XBox division of Microsoft has only been in profit for the past two financial years (2007-2008 and, probably, the current financial year). That's pretty slim pickings for seven or eight years of investment by the company, yet all of a sudden the XBox is a raging success and PlayStation 3 is an "epic" failure?

Generally, it's very rare indeed there's any profit on the hardware worth shouting about. As noted, they are either sold at a loss or close to cost, so it's the technological take on the razors and blades business model - the profit is made on the software, not the hardware.

With that in mind I think it's software support that decides whether a console is a failure. The Dreamcast didn't have the support of EA or their marketing, while the PS2 did. In the case of the PS3 & XBox, both would appear to have strong support from all of the multiplatform developers.

If and when those third party, multiplatform developers stop creating software for the PS3 because they deem it a pointless venture, then yes, that would indicate the PS3 is a failure.

Even if that were to play out, Sony has more internal software houses than Microsoft does. You'll remember that Bungee wanted to break the shackles and Bizarre Creations were willing to give up their Project Gotham IP in order to go multiplatform, while Sony has invested heavily over the past few years in securing first party development for the PS3.

So when we go into the "harvest" period of the PS3's life cycle, the first party exclusive games will be coming thick and fast and what they're not dependant upon is the sales of the hardware right now, during a global recession.

That's my take on it - I believe I'm looking at the bigger picture and I find it ridiculous that, so early in the lifecycle of the PS3, people are making sweeping generalisations as if the XBox 360 will be the only console in town this time next year.

By all means, counter that view with your own take on it (i.e. not a link to an article and a post that says "I agree") and I'm all ears. After all, I thought the original XBox was a doomed to failure, but it turned out that Microsoft were willing to burn the millions they did in order to establish the brand before they pulled the plug on it, so by their measure it was a successful venture.

[swift killer]

Apparently, PS3 in it's 2nd year is doing better than 360 and the PS2 were in their second year.

EDIT: What 360 has acheived in 4 years sales wise, PS3 has done three-quarters of in half the time, and thats without a single hint of a pricedrop and less advertising

[stinkleroy]

The only time I ever considered buying a 360 was when gta4 was released last year as I was still stuck with a ps2 at the time. I have a ps3 because of what it offers me, both in terms of exclusive titles and console facilities. I get free online play, an internet browser, blu ray player, Home (when it finally gets some game spaces) and an abundance of innovative software. I believe this to be the better deal for me, as Im more interested in a console thats going to offer me something new and fresh. Even if I dont like whats on offer I still appreciate the fact that its there and am pleased that sony are taking risks on smaller developers with big ideas. Nothin against the 360, PS is just how I roll.