cheating the ZONE

[ProblemSolver]

Well, there seems to be the first obvious cheat in WipEout HD ZONE. PSN user
xtianoPL got the following result on ANULPHA PASS; 384181 points, 157 zones,
and 2 perfect zones, which is virtually an impossible result. And I'm absolut
certain that all Top10 zoners agree with me without any doubt.

xtianoPL might have found a bug by accident. I think that the craft got stuck
into a wall without damage. He then simply waited until the points added up to
kick me (367k pts.) from rank 1.

@SCE Studio Liverpool:
Please contact the PSN user xtianoPL and try to fix that problem, otherwise the
leaderboard will mess up rather soon. :frown: Thx!


Anyways, ZONE rulz! So awwwww ... can't get enough! :dizzy

@all: :xtree My wishlist has only one entry; The uncut ZONE mode.

[multibodydynamics]

Sad to see "fake" results on top of the leaderboard... I reached zone 74 yesterday... that's just my type of luck... sigh... :brickwall
But hey, Problem Solver, now you have a new goal to reach for! :lol

[lunar]

I agree there`s no way anyone would get to that speed with only 2 perfect zones. He must have had 155 imperfect zones, which would mean there`s no way he could have reached 157 without blowing up. Say he only lost 1 point of shield energy on each zone, and add the 20 shield points for the 2 perfect zones, then the max he could have got to is 123 I think. I think that logic is right. :dizzy

I think it`s definitely worth an email to SCEE/SL as Wipeout HD is an amazingly "clean" online game and should be kept that way. Hopefully it`s just a random occurrence and not a glitch in the game that can be exploited.

[kanar]

+1, this is a fantastic experience so far, so please SL erradicate that & that weird record too : http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2121/dsc00685ro0.jpg (a stuff wotan spotted some days ago, dunno if it's cleared now...)

[trk_rkd]

yeah that's sad, obviously 157 zones with only two perfect = glitcher. might be a little presumptuous to suggest he did it deliberately although that's the explanation 99.9% of the time in these cases. shame.

[TheFrostE]

pfft ive done 200 zones with no perfects...i just havent uploaded it yet <_< >_> ...:p

[Connavar]

Yeah it's impossible, I've seen another such impossible time for a speed lap
I think, the time was about 3 seconds!!!

The best solution would be bugs removal, but that's not easy for them to fix,
so they could add a system that checks whether a time is possible or not before
officially posting it.

For instance, on speed laps / races / ... take the best current times, and check
the new time, if the time is 20% faster, then it's impossible.

Or if the lap is 6 km and the turbo speed is 2,000 km/h then normally it would
be impossible to run the lap under 10.8 seconds.

[Wotan]

New record on anulpha : 1000 zones with 3 perfects zones :rock

I think that score confirm the existence of one glitch on zone mode ^^

[Cerium]

Let's ignore all the obvious details that make that record ridiculous for a second... can anyone's brain even handle almost 3 hours of zone madness without... you know... melting? I could barely get to 80 without needing to reach for the eye drops.

Also, since supersonic is the last named zone, wouldn't it eventually become impossible to take the corners since you wouldn't be getting handling upgrades anymore (I'd imagine around 150)?

[Connavar]

This glitch needs to be fixed asap with a patch, before it destroys the rankings.
Removing scores from the leaderboard is not enough.

[Asayyeah]

btw related to what Connavar said : it appears few names like Ahh Quadzilla or Larikun, have been deleted , is there an explanation from SL about that ?

[kanar]

seriously??? those 2 great pioneers? larikun is member here (MIA since oct 11th)... what happened?

[Connavar]

AHH QUADZILLA is gone; I still see Larikun

[Figlarz]

Well... it seems, that we have some cheaters in Poland :D

I still can't beat even 80 Zone, but I'm weak player, so it's nothing special. And I don't believe that ANYBODY can beat Zone 100. It's insane :D

Greets

[blackwiggle]

To be honest I've always had a nagging doubt about some of those AHH QUADZILLA times.
Especially the tracks where there is no or few places to BR [moa therma reverse] and times posted are something like 4 sec faster than Piraphac or Flashback jack.
I just don't see where that much of a time difference can occur, when you consider that in the upper reaches of the records table for phantom speed tracks, the time difference is in the tenths of seconds.

[Wellington86]

Actually when AHH-QUADZILLA's times were removed yesterday there were only two events he was still first in, namely VK reverse TT and AP TT. Just the day before I did well enough on the former to know that I could equal his VK reverse time, and I know that pirhapac considers his AP time to be possible.

I really think it's a bad thing that quadzilla's times have been removed. I've enjoyed playing a lot of TT in the past few weeks and I've managed with a lot of effort to beat him on some tracks, but not most. He had some great times and added to the quality at the top of the leaderboards, and I think the competition has suffered as a result of his removal. If it's still possible, I hope his times will reappear.

I also noticed that Larikun has disappeared. As far as I know both AHH-QUADZILLA and Larikun have been inactive for a long time now. So it suggests that times are removed after a certain period of inactivity. I very much hope that is not the case.

[blackwiggle]

Well it makes you think that SL obviously knows something we don't regarding the manner AHH QUADZILLA has achieved some of those times,otherwise they would of removed all of them.
Anybody raced/seen QUADZILLA online EVER?
And weren't the majority if not all of QUADZILLAS times made pretty soon after release?

And Larikun joined 7th Oct has not posted here since 11th Oct when the first patch came out.

I hope the removal of times after inactivity is not the case,that would be very unfair.
It would mean your records would be scrubbed after 10 weeks inactivity if this were true.

I have a theory of what might be the cause of these removals if the non activity isn't the cause,but I'll wait to see if anybody else picks up on it and comments.

[djKyoto]

I don't believe that ANYBODY can beat Zone 100. It's insane :D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hof7S2jJxxA

[superpj1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hof7S2jJxxA
:eek it's beyond reality :eek but i saw it with my own eyes so it's real :eek this guy is skilled !

[blackwiggle]

Zone doesn't actually get any faster after zone around 70 so it's all about holding it together after you hit those zones.
The 100+ zoner posted that himself here.
Regarding my previous post I was meaning the general SL and TT times.

[KIGO1987]

POST "666" :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted

Damn! How did he do that. Dexies?

POST "666" :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted :evil :twisted

[blackwiggle]

Remember pre release review copies of WOHD wemt out on disc [with reviewers code]

Work it out.

[XtianoPL]

Hi!
Yes, i've found a bug in Zone Mode in WipEout HD. I tought the developers will know about that but i wait and wait and no one contact with me... I told about glitch one guy who help me discover how its work and he's actually number one on scoreboard. Find glitch was accidental and i don't want to be #1, I wanted to see how many zones can I pass but just as I wanted to try myself on Supersonic and i've "unlocked" ship and die. I'm very impressed your score ProblemSolver :beer and you are the only one who deserves for 1st place on scoreboard. I want to write Studio Liverpool but my english sucks... but i will do that and explain how glitch is work.
Best regards.
XtianoPL

PS sorry for my english, count on it that You understood me ;)

[AnErare]

Blackwiggle, in Fusion speed didn't increase after zone 60, in Pure I don't know but in Pulse and HD it just keeps on increasing, and on and on in HD until there is no end, apparently. It only stops increasing when you've drained all the available ship energy...

[blackwiggle]

I'm only repeating what the 100+ zoner in WOHD has posted before.
And there are only TWO
It has nothing to do with previous WO games.
I'd provide a link, but I would of thought all that frequent this forum would know who that was.
Seems not.
[I really can't be bothered searching,sorry] anybody want to name somebody other than WELLINGTON that is a ZONE master.

[AnErare]

I've searched but I am unable to find it. I'm still playing pulse zone quite frequently and master it very very well. I think such a post would not go unnoticed but surely could have.

Anyway, since the malfunction has been found more people will, and with it the scoreboard will have lost it's purpose... :/

[Wellington86]

@blackwiggle

I have raced AHH-QUADZILLA myself, a long time ago. I remember him as one of my first online kills. I have to say he didn't come across as extremely quick the first time (I certainly wasn't quick myself), but the second time I met him he was winning consistently. I assume he got his times quickly because he was familiar with all the tracks from having played the PSP versions.

As for zone, there is a post somewhere on this site by Larikun who confirms that it still gets faster after 90.

[blackwiggle]

Bother Quadzilla and Larikin have never be seen since before the first WOHD patch.
That's over 2.5 months out of a 3.5 month release
Both have had their records removed.

What do you make of that?

Seems strange to me that players [Supposedly] that good should suddenly give up the game completely.

[judus]

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100696&postcount=24

I think that sounds about right. Recently I went past the 80 mark and every time I reached a new zone, the stats reported a higher top speed.

[ProblemSolver]

Sad to see "fake" results on top of the leaderboard... I reached zone 74 yesterday... that's just my type of luck... sigh... :brickwall
But hey, Problem Solver, now you have a new goal to reach for! :lol

It's somewhat unsatisfying that no one can compete with me up to zone 115+,
seriously. I did a 116 last week and now lead with 12 zones with respect to
second best. I would be pleased if someone could caught up with we, since
sharing the experience on that speed would be great.


... I think it`s definitely worth an email to SCEE/SL as Wipeout HD is an amazingly "clean" online game and should be kept that way. Hopefully it`s just a random occurrence and not a glitch in the game that can be exploited.

Is there an official email address from STUDIO Liverpool were one can
send a bug report to?


New record on anulpha : 1000 zones with 3 perfects zones :rock

I think that score confirm the existence of one glitch on zone mode ^^

They, SL, have to act now! The leaderboard is starting to mess up. :(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hof7S2jJxxA

// ProblemSolver : Greetings to everyone!
http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5513
(featuring the original version of the video in question)



Zone doesn't actually get any faster after zone around 70 so it's all about holding it together after you hit those zones.
The 100+ zoner posted that himself here. ...


That's wrong. The speed increases at last up to zone 116, which I can state
from my own experience as well as from the result screen. And I can tell
you, the speed becomes insane. Upon entering zone 110+ the craft starts
to airborne a lot. I would be pleased do to another video, a 115+ video,
such that you all can see how insane / amazing it becomes.


Hi!
Yes, i've found a bug in Zone Mode in WipEout HD. I tought the developers will know about that but i wait and wait and no one contact with me... I told about glitch one guy who help me discover how its work and he's actually number one on scoreboard. Find glitch was accidental and i don't want to be #1, I wanted to see how many zones can I pass but just as I wanted to try myself on Supersonic and i've "unlocked" ship and die. I'm very impressed your score ProblemSolver :beer and you are the only one who deserves for 1st place on scoreboard. I want to write Studio Liverpool but my english sucks... but i will do that and explain how glitch is work.
Best regards.
XtianoPL

Nice to have you here, XtianoPL! And thx for the flowers. I've written in
my original post that SL should contact you such that you (or Assphalt) can
tell them how the glitch works. Assphalt contacted me, he asked how to
contact SL. However, don't throw the glitch to the public, since there is
still the possibility to save the leaderboard. I for myself have no problems
if they reset the leaderboard, my only issue with that is that the amount
of entries currently onto leaderboard of ANULPHA PASS are going for a reset,
too. And I don't think that we will get such an amount of entries again.

[Lucas_RD]

Is there an official email address from STUDIO Liverpool were one can
send a bug report to?
contact@studioliverpool.eu
I get it from '06 Merseysides address book, so it can be old. Especially, because I cannot find any on google. But it's always better then nothing.
Burn those cheaters, now two, second we look there will be thousands :evil

Lucas

[RJ O'Connell]

Welcome aboard Lucas. However I don't think Wipeout HD will fall prey to a cheating epidemic. Can't take any chances though!

[crashZF5]

I can see that the top players are feeling betrayed since the top two positions have been taken by folks by means of a bug in the code.

A friend of mine who was in the top ten has recently just been moved down two places and he doesn't want to play Wipe out anymore until this problem has been resolved. I am hoping that Problem Solver can solve this problem by urging LS to react quickly as he owns Anulpha Pass Zone!

[Connavar]

Other cheaters:
#47 got 94 - 15
#454 got 76 - 5
#595 got 75 - 2

The last 2 are "ok" since they just wanted the trophy.

Now if a good player starts cheating, this could be a disaster,
and would require the tables to be reset...

[ProblemSolver]

First off, Leaderboards are a nice thing, but in the end it's only a list.
The glitch does not take anything away from the very awesomeness of
the ZONE mode. And there is nothing compareable in braking the 100
zone barrier with his very own skills.


contact@studioliverpool.eu
I get it from '06 Merseysides address book, so it can be old....

I wrote an email to that address. The address seems to be valid since I
didn't got a delivery error. Well, I hope they'll gave us an indication that
they are aware of the problem.


I can see that the top players are feeling betrayed since the top two positions have been taken by folks by means of a bug in the code. ...

I guess that the glitch will offset those person who put a lot of effort
into ZONE in getting the Zeus trophy. Perhaps there might be an option to
remove the Zeus trophy for those people who obviously used the glitch to
obtain it.

[Lucas_RD]

Other cheaters:
#47 got 94 - 15
#454 got 76 - 5
#595 got 75 - 2

If second number stand for perfect zones, then do the math again, because it is possible without using cheats. But we will never know for sure. :(

We're only lucky it isn't on youtube yet.

[Connavar]

Even if mathematically possible, it's not in practice, if you look at the top #
1000 scores, the cheater scores really stand out (first 2 + those 3), because
all other players score 30 perfect zones or more, and none of them has a ratio
zones/perfect greater than 2.5 about. (while here we got 6, 17, 37).

So trust me it's a cheat for sure, also remember that this score is their
personal best, they would have scores much higher with less zones and more
perfect ones, which is a lot easier to accomplish.

You need amazing skills to reach zone 75, those skills would certainly enable
you to score at least 30 perfect zones, easily.

[Lucas_RD]

Now I'm pissed! You absolutely right. My personal best is 69 Zones at leaderboard, even though I've reached 78 Zone once.
So, is this XtianoPL honest with us about letting only one person his secret?
Boy, I hope my "neighbours", the SL team know how this bug work and they will fix it asap.

[Wellington86]

That 94 - 15 score has been there for a long time. It's either someone who knew about the cheat before XtianoPL did or it's legitimate. I suspect it's legitimate. I think it was done by only using airbrakes, since I remember when I did the airbraker trophy I rarely had any large impacts, but instead got gradually worn down by frequently lightly brushing the side. This person has probably perfected flying like this.

[crashZF5]

I think it was done by only using air brakes, since I remember when I did the airbraker trophy I rarely had any large impacts, but instead got gradually worn down by frequently lightly brushing the side. This person has probably perfected flying like this.

I agree with you there as my friend who is in the top ten on leader boards uses only Air Brakes to move up to zone 100.

Its pretty weird since I am not used to them and I have seen him play.

[superpj1]

my friend who is in the top ten on leader boards uses only Air Brakes to move up to zone 100. It's pretty weird since I am not used to them and I have seen him play.
ONLY AIRBRAKES TO ZONE 100 ? :eek

[Connavar]

I agree with you there as my friend who is in the top ten on leader boards uses only Air Brakes to move up to zone 100.

Its pretty weird since I am not used to them and I have seen him play.
But your friend has more than 59 perfect zones (I don't know his PSN id),
so it seems to contradict Wellington86 reasoning...

However I agree that the 94-15 score is probably valid.
I'll try an airbraker later, I'm pretty sure I had done the first 20 zones perfect
when I got the trophy.

[H3avyM3tal]

How long has that 1006 zones score been sitting there?

[andybob35]

About 2 days, some cheating toe-rag who's found a glitch. Seems a waste of time going for a zone record on Anuaphla pass (still need zone zeus).

Sort it out Sony Liverpool!

[IH8YOU]

How long has that 1006 zones score been sitting there?

Almost 2 weeks now. :(

[H3avyM3tal]

Well, since it is a cheat, it doesn't take out the fan in making a record. If it was a number closer to the real no.1, or 50 more with the same record it would be a preblem. I'm sure SL is working on it though!

[TheFrostE]

just pretend its not there... as in no .2= no.1

[yeldar2097]

isn't no.2 dodgy as well? i think it is but i can't remeber... i think it is
*ponders awhile*

edit: ignore me, i'm a fool

[ProblemSolver]

Assume that things look good. :P

ps: Don't ask. Thx.

[Darkdrium777]

I saw that 1006 Zone score as well, weird. I wonder how they do it. :O

[Cerium]

Indeed. As soon as it's fixed, I'd appreciate it if someone explained how it's done... I'm really curious.

[Connavar]

Oh man!! ProblemSolver managed to score more points than the cheater xtianoPL!!!
He's really the king of the zone. 118/88 is incredible...

[ProblemSolver]

Thanx mate! I'm close to my final destination; 120+ zones and 100+ perfect zones.


About the cheaters.

I don't consider xtianPL and Assphalt as cheaters, because they clearly showed
me that this was not their indention. Only those people who gain a real profit
from using the glitch are cheaters, esp. those who simple "run" the 75 zones
to get the Zeus trophy. I know people who have spent 50+ hours into ZONE
just to get the Zeus trophy.

And honestly, I don't think that being at No. 1 or 3 on the leaderboard of
ANULPHA PASS ZONE, by using the glitch, makes you proud of anything.
Quite the contrary is the case, I guess. The way xtianoPL and Assphalt did
it was right, because there was no question about whether they had used a
glitch or not. Assphalt contacted me straight via PSN and xtianoPL registered
at this message-board to tell about. The worst case would have been if they
had arranged all the things such that one cannot spot the glitch or if they had
gave away the glitch to the public. They didn't.

[Connavar]

Yeah, I agree 100%, in fact I wanted to use another term than "cheater"
to name him, but didn't find any... maybe glitcher?

[H3avyM3tal]

ProblemSolver, what do you think the limit is on how far you can get in da Zone?

[Darkdrium777]

The infinity, and beyond!

http://disney.go.com/disneyhome/customwindowcoverings/images/nav-buzz.jpg

;)

[XtianoPL]

the cheater xtianoPL!!!
I'm not cheater. It was accident. I want to as soon as possible, resolve this problem because i'm a big fan of WipEout. :)

[ProblemSolver]

@XtianoPL: Connavar already retracted his words about the cheaters. ;)

@H3avyM3tal: The absolute limit lays between zone 120 and 130. Two problems
arise; First, running 120 zone would imply to be up for 20 minutes, which is
already beyond anything in ZONE, it drains too much energy, your brain starts
to black out now and then in a discontinuous fashion.
Secondly, another problem comes from the game engine itself. The ZONE craft
starts to airborne a lot on zone 115+. Problem is, the ZONE craft isn't really built
for zone 120+ (1800km/h). A second problem is the wall collision code. One will
experience rather odd types of collision which distracts for a good portion if they
occur.

Under the current circumstances I might be able to do a 125 at its maximum.
I'm also considering to finish the hunt on higher zones on AP upon reaching zone
120+, because ... hmm how should I say ... there has to be a limit, even for me.
A slight improvement might be possible if we could map the pitch to the right
analog stick, because it is impossible to precisely control the pitch using the left
analog stick (steering) or the motion part of the controller at very high speeds.

[rdmx]

The infinity, and beyond!

http://disney.go.com/disneyhome/customwindowcoverings/images/nav-buzz.jpg

;)

Minor nitpick, it's 'To infinity, and beyond!' ;)

[Darkdrium777]

True :lol

[H3avyM3tal]

ProblemSolver, I understand. However, since the craft gets airbourn alot in the 115+ parts, wouldn't it be possible to, say, glide over the last part in AP, or would that require you to let the overpass section alone and tackle the zigzag section more? I have to say that getting that far, regardless, seems to be very stressing (a health hazzard?) on the brain. zone 120 means not blinking for atleast 15 minutes (out of the 20 minutes).

I would say let AP rest and move on to other tracks. Don't conquer AP now that noone can compete with you. Conquering AP now would make your record somewhat an overkill, no? Let the competition grow, don't kill it in one fell swoop.

[ProblemSolver]

The infinity, and beyond!

To infinity, and back. Two times! :lol

[bik3rluke]

Zone 120... Mental, just ****ing mental. Hats off to you, sir.

[ProblemSolver]

ProblemSolver, I understand. However, since the craft gets airbourn alot in the 115+ parts, wouldn't it be possible to, say, glide over the last part in AP, or would that require you to let the overpass section alone and tackle the zigzag section more?

The zigzag section is not an option, it's also quite too long to fly :bat over
it. The zigzag section by itself is not the problem, the problem is the sharp
steering angle required from the exit of the corner (the ramp) leading to
that section in comparison to go for the overpass. Quite funny, on zone
110+ you will likely fly off from the ramp until after the second billboard
on the overpass, depending on the take-off point. :dizzy I will do a barrel
role up there and make a screenshot. :D



I have to say that getting that far, regardless, seems to be very stressing (a health hazzard?) on the brain. zone 120 means not blinking for atleast 15 minutes (out of the 20 minutes).

Within the last four weeks I do only run about two times per week for about
1h (= three runs) on AP. Trying to run for three hours each second day, in
trying to run a 120, would be ... a hazard. I remember Flameshe (jp); the
second person who broke the 100 zone barrier; we agreed upon reaching
zone 110 on the first week of November. He played every day for about five
hours for a whole week if I remember correctly. He improved up to zone 104.
Two days later I have set a 106 and shortly therafter a 109. But suddenly he
stopped playing WOHD alltogether. :cold I guess he overpaced his action in
trying to run a 110, but I don't know for sure. One thing is also interesting;
non of those persons who broke the 100 zone barrier (like Flameshe,
Ave_Fausto, and B-MARRI) have ever really improved their results for over
four to five weeks now. And I don't think that Ave_Fausto simply drop the
ball on AP, because he, like Wellington, is a very good zoner. I congratulated
Ave_Fausto for reaching zone 100 and told him to keep up the good work ...,
but he never replied. :(



I would say let AP rest and move on to other tracks. Don't conquer AP now that noone can compete with you. Conquering AP now would make your record somewhat an overkill, no? Let the competition grow, don't kill it in one fell swoop.

Honestly, I feel a bit bombed about myself on the current score on AP. I
think I've messed up the competition on my very own. :bomb However, it was
already my indention to leave AP for quite awhile after reaching zone 120+.
Perhaps I should ask SL to reset my score after I have reached that pretty
sick zone, such that the competition can grow by itself, I don't know....

If you ask me, I don't need the score and I don't need a HUD showing
the points or whatsoever. What drives me is the feeling you get upon
entering zone 100 on AP ... when you become one with the ZONE craft.

And only on AP you can go that far. I mean all the other tracks are quite
nice, too, I love them all, but the feeling doesn't hold for quite that long
on these tracks. ;) For example, VINETA K, once you are into the flow at
zone 60 the show is over about 10 zones later. :?

The ZONE mode has to be improved / extended. There should be a way to
prolong the time to run at a certain speed. I envision a multiplayer mode
for ZONE; will do a thread within the next month about it such that we can
talk together. For example, imagine to run in tandem trough ZONE by having
the possibility to transfer energy between the crafts. Or a mode were the
zones do only increase if a certain synchronization condition is satisfied,
for example, both craft have to run a given amount of time without touching
walls. It would be awesome to run with some good friends together in ZONE,
sharing the same experience at the same time. dream on boy....

[Connavar]

Haha so breaking the zone 100+ is hazardous...
Have you tried Anulpha reverse too?
And another way to reach high zones would be new tracks (DLC)!
Yeah an online zone mode would be fantastic!

[KIGO1987]

I got a lovely msg in my PSN inbox when i went online just then;

luxtonx,
It was very clear to me, and my friends. that you where obviously cheating! Your race line was awful, how you where achieving such lap times is beyond us, you cheating swine, we hope you rot in the pit of hailsham for eternity!!

My soon reply;
It is very clear to my that you are a stupidcnt, and you are obviously very **** at this game. There are faster racers out there quicker than i, check the global records, dumbcnt.

[blackwiggle]

As eloquent as ever KIGO :lol

[KIGO1987]

Why thank you.

Just sent the message then with an added sentence at the end;

"BTW its called lag, not a poor racing line. Idiot."

[superpj1]

running 120 zone would imply to be up for 20 minutes, which is already beyond anything in ZONE, it drains too much energy, your brain starts to black out now and then in a discontinuous fashion.
Some drugs can help you see in slowmotion and go to zone 120+, it's as if you played venom speed.
just joking don't try it :P

[KIGO1987]

There called dexamphetamines, they help you concerntrate in all fields not only Wipeout zone mode. In France there probably called 'Le Concerntration Pill'. People who have ADHD or ADD, have this as there prescription medication to keep there abnormally high brain wave patterns down.

[afatsuoM]

Hmm, my brother has ADHD, but you seriously don't want to take any of the pills he takes. My mom once took one accidentally. She became really hyperactive for most of the day and couldn't sleep at night. I guess it works the other way around on "normal" people. :hyper

Zone is the mode i like best in WipEout HD. My best Zone score is 78, but it's not even in the rankings because i had a higher score during a run in which i only got to zone 68 (a major crash ended my otherwise perfect race al little too early). I'm now trying to beat this score to get in the top 200. If it weren't for these glitches i would be in the top 200 already (last time i looked it was 202).

[ProblemSolver]

I'm a bit disappointed that the 1.26 patch didn't solved the glitch, and also the
the leaderboard for ANULPHA PASS isn't fixed. :( It's now over a month ago that
we know about the issue. I did everything to get that problem fixed (wrote a
full-fledged bug report, etc.). The Top10 of ANULPHA PASS looks so ugly!!!

To alleviate my frustration I nailed 81 zones onto VINETA K.

[Connavar]

Have faith! And fantastic performance on Vineta-K!
Now how about the other tracks? :)

[Darkdrium777]

How exactly does this glitch work anyways? You just get stuck somewhere and it doesn't respawn you?

[XtianoPL]

It's so sad that Sony can't fix this bug. Shame.

[xBino]

How exactly does this glitch work anyways? You just get stuck somewhere and it doesn't respawn you?

not exactly. being curious myself i spent the better part of an afternoon playing around with AP, different ship variations etc, and studied the leaderboards a bit.

was able to recreate what i believe to be the glitch very few others have experienced "accidentally". How is beyond me really...

I will gladly share once it's been patched to avoid public castration and hanging on this and other forums lol :bomb

[ProblemSolver]

A new attempt;


...
But now to the real deal.
Why do we have to life with the 1006-zones-glitch on ANULPHA PASS (ZONE)
for over 5 month now? Tell me! Today I was told that SL doesn't know
about how it works. LOL That is wrong! Back in January I contacted SL (can't
talk about who I was talking to, but if you send me a PN, then I will give
you two valid email adr. and a name of a person everybody knows at SL very,
very well). I've sent a full bug-report on how the glitch works. I actually
sent that report two times. And what? Noooooooothing.

Here is the original thread about the 1006 zones issue; cheating the ZONE (http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5606).
And, I can assure you that an official high bird from SL had read the
given thread.

I will now make a final try, with the help of Darkdrium777, to make you
(Paul) aware of the issue. I will send you and Darkdrium777 a PN on how the
glitch works and Darkdrium777 will additionally send you a video.

You have one month....


(;))

[Reference] Thread: V1.40 tomorrow! Post: 164 (http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124542&postcount=164)

Let's hope.

[Spece2goin]

what do you mean by "you have one month"?

what would you do if they don't do anything? boycot the zone mode?
you can't live without it, you know that!

[Darkdrium777]

He's kidding of course :)

[ProblemSolver]

What I would do? Well actually, I had a pretty nasty idea on what I would do
if SL wouldn't care about that issue within the next few month. My idea was
(is? xD) to create 10 different PSN logging accounts that have some words
in them that will give a nice little sentence / message if you would read them
on the leaderboard from top (rank 1) to bottom (rank 10). And I can assure
you that the content of that sentence would draw some attention to a lot of
magazines. :g xD

[multibodydynamics]

That would be awesome! Please do... :hyper

[AnErare]

Although I agree it may be funny it's really rather infantile and resembles pissing in the well from which you drink..

[eLhabib]

While I understand your notion, AnE, it still is about effin' time they did something about the glitched times. Hell, it takes no more than an hour to weed through the leaderboards and remove all improbable entries. If they can't get that done, they sure deserve the kind of treatment ProblemSolver mentioned. I actually quite like the way of telling the devs to start caring. Just because they are busy creating DLC or whatever doesn't mean we have to treat them like great gods and accept sh*t like the leaderboard mess-up. Even less so if it takes almost no effort to fix.

[afatsuoM]

What I would do? Well actually, I had a pretty nasty idea on what I would do
if SL wouldn't care about that issue within the next few month. My idea was
(is? xD) to create 10 different PSN logging accounts that have some words
in them that will give a nice little sentence / message if you would read them
on the leaderboard from top (rank 1) to bottom (rank 10). And I can assure
you that the content of that sentence would draw some attention to a lot of
magazines. :g xD

There's one downside to this; it would make it no fun to compete for top 10, because it would mess up the sentence.:lol

It might take a while, but i'm still getting better. Got to zone 82 a while ago.

/me dreams on...

[Connavar]

On top of that, I'm sure a few people here would gladly help them for free,
including myself and ProblemSolver, and no this doesn't necessarily require us
to look at the code, we could just create some functions accepting specific
parameters and outputting some results, then release them free of use.

(We just need to know what the parameters are going to be, and if
SL is going to use them, if not then no point)

For instance, a function which says if a time in the DB is obviously wrong or not,
I got the code already!

[AnErare]

Guys I agree about the times and scores, that probably involve a related or the same glitch, are ****ing horrible. But SL are a quiet bunch and solving this problem may actually be a hard one to get out of the code..

In the mean time we've been spoiled with a game this awesome and expecting levelly awesome goodies on the sidenotes! Some things simply aren't that easy and pruning in with a heist like that may even work against us..

[UnluckyForSome]

It's somewhat unsatisfying that no one can compete with me up to zone 115+,
seriously. I did a 116 last week and now lead with 12 zones with respect to
second best. I would be pleased if someone could caught up with we, since
sharing the experience on that speed would be great.


jeez, get over urself

[eLhabib]

Don't judge someone without knowing them. ProblemSolver is not a bragging man (even though he would have reasons aplenty to be...), so don't go throwing fancy words around.

[yeldar2097]

Too true, PS has every reason to boast about his antics but he doesn't, he just wants someone else to be able to experience zone mode at the same level as himself (correct me if i'm wrong PS:P)
We don't do boasting round here ;)

[KIGO1987]

Back to the FBJ era now.

Just realised i have a 1:42 on Cheungou Forward Phantom single race, i dont now how i got it, but its a huge gap between my other CP records, count this one out guys, Connavar, it is a bullshit time, as you can see.

[silverfoxy]

I'd love to be as good as Problem Solver. He isn't boasting about it at all, as Yeldar said he just wants some competition on AP.

[AnErare]

I for one seriously want to join you PS, I've shared the experience with Infaxsu on Pulse and it is such a thrill to take eachother further and further into stupendous speeds. Going as far as we did on De Konstruct (almost zone 90 and well into 200k point which is a LOT on that game) and Tech de Ra (far into 60 and infax even hitting 70) was very ecstatic.

It has taken a lot of time and work getting there though and I sadly still don't have the means to spare the same for HD.

On Pulse it is also possible on some tracks to make use of something we could call a glitch. But besides that we've had some fools around on the internet who made use of something that made it possible to override energy perimiters so it wouldn't deplete and score without actually putting any effort into it. I've seen it work and I'm very glad at least that isn't possible on HD!

[ProblemSolver]

@eLhabib:
Very true.


For instance, a function which says if a time in the DB is obviously wrong or not, I got the code already!
Nice idea but we will *never* get any technical / internal information
about WipEout HD. However, SL could implement those functions on their
own. Most of them are very easy to realize.


... But SL are a quiet bunch and solving this problem may actually be a hard one to get out of the code..
Nope. The glitch is so 'obvious' that you would find a solution just by
inspection.


jeez, get over urself
lol


Too true, PS has every reason to boast about his antics but he doesn't, he just wants someone else to be able to experience zone mode at the same level as himself (correct me if i'm wrong PS:P) ...
True that is. It's rather difficult to explain (in words) whats going on
with you (with your mind, your pulse, your whole body, ....) on a rather
perfect run of 120+ zones. Static-trip67 did a 117 lately and I can feel
what he was going through, and likewise he can anticipate what I was
going through. That's great!

AnErare & silverfox073:
Hopefully you guys will come up there sooner then later. Would be awesome!

[Connavar]

You're right ... nobody will ever get any information, but you're also right that
it's very easy to address, which is why I don't understand why it hasn't been
done yet (could it be some legal reason like someone would complain that his
time has been removed??)

Anyway, to illustrate how easy to is, those few and simple conditions alone get
rid of all the glitched times I've encountered:

if (time)<1 sec or (#zones)<1 or (#pads)<1 or (#perfect zones)<1: invalid
if (time)>540 sec (9 mins) or (time)<16.5*number_of_laps: invalid
if (#zones)>=75 and (#zones>#perfect*8 or #zones>#perfect+100): invalid

[ProblemSolver]

I guess, nobody didn't really care about the given problem. As you can
read in one of my previous posts, they claim not to know about it (how the
glitch works). lol There is always a way you can come around in getting to
know how a given glitch works.

The problem with STUDIO Liverpool (SL) is that there is virtually no official
communication with their fan base (customers). Very bad! I mean, look
at InsomniacGames or Guerrilla they are both in touch with their fans.
Both companies have official communities and message boards where also
developers do write some posts, respectively. InsomniacGames even has a
podcast and also features an R&D section sharing ideas as well as source
code to the public!

Once or twice a year someone from SL post a message over here and
everybody gets happy because they "talk" to us. LOL Applause!

I think SL would communicate with their fans a lot more if Sony Computer
Entertainment Europa (SCEE) would allow them to do so. Imho, I guess
SCEE has put a muzzle on SLs mouth. Almost all SCE/E featurered games
have virtually no official communities where also some official developers
do post. (As a side note: almost all SCE/E webpages are crap. And don't tell
me eu.playstation.com or community.eu.playstation.com are any good
webpages, pretty random if you ask me.) Hence, it's rather difficult to get
in touch with some of the guys behind those games to inform them about
glitches, bugs, or simply to talk with them about where the game could go
next. Why can't we know whether SL is working on a DLC or not? Up to my
view, SCEE fears the public because they fear the pressure we can exert
on them. But let me tell you something -- pressure makes diamonds.

[Darkdrium777]

Yep, you are right ProblemSolver.

To add to the list of developers having official communities, so maybe Colin can find out about them and maybe not say such things like:

That is why they have press days, and E3s and the like. You cant necessarily expect a company to make announcements via a fansite, ok I am 100% sure someone can find an example where that is done, but it is not the norm.

Insomniac (http://forums.insomniacgames.com/index.php)
Guerilla (http://www.killzone.com/kz/forums.psml)
Epic Games (http://forums.epicgames.com/)
Bioware (http://forums.bioware.com/forums/index.html)
Bethesda (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/)
EA Games (http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/categories/list.page)
Maxis/Spore (http://forum.spore.com/jforum/forums/list.page)
Bungie (http://www.bungie.net/forums/default.aspx)
Capcom (http://www.capcom-unity.com/go/network/forum?t=12968)

You are right. Not every developer has an official community, but these are some of the biggest developers in the industry across all platforms.
In fact, I'm pretty sure if I looked at the games I currently have, I'd find an official community forum for the developer of that game.

That is not to say we should not be happy whenever Colin or anyone else drops by, as it apparently is against regulations what they are doing. However, the fact remains that it's not enough. It isn't SL's fault, it's someone else's higher above. But the impact is that we feel lost and forgotten a lot more. Let's face it, if we were to draw up the situation right now, we would be in a movie theatre with the lights dimmed, doors closed, the screen would be dark, and to guide us to the exit we would only have the reflective bands on the floor.

Now, yes, WipEoutZone is a fansite. But come on. You guys have been here for long. Rob once worked for/with you. It's not called "Sony Liverpool forums" but it might as well be. I don't know how you guys see it yourself, you are probably thinking the same thing but someone else is watching and if you ever wrote that you could get in trouble, but seriously I don't get this. I just don't understand why and what is so important that you are not allowed to communicate with fans more often. I can understand keeping stuff like release dates secret until a given time, all the devs do it on the forums I just posted above. That's normal. But what prevents day to day interactions? You are normal people as far as I know, you should care about the fans. Maybe you do, but you can't show it? Why don't ya tell the guy(s) with the leash about it?

So far Paul Tweedle's thread (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6171) is the only one even resembling announcement threads that the other guys post on the respective forums. But it's the only one! Look at the forums I quoted. Look how many announcements there are by the developers there! There's only one here, and that's what's wrong! :(

[ProblemSolver]

Fully signed.

A lot of studios go public these days, because they treat their fans as
customers and not just simply as (stupid) fans like Sony (SCEE) did a lot in
the past. Incorporating the customer into product development (to some
extend) can only be a win-win situation for both parties.

What should I say, customers almost always comes last in Europe. This is
a general phenomena over here. Customer friendliness is a "foreign word"
esp. over here in Germany. Despite our high quality products, we have to
learn a lot in this regard! But things are about to change....
---
Ehm Darkdrium777, I think we should talk about all this at a more global base,
on a new thread (with reference to the last three to four post from here), such
that other people can post their take on the current situation.

I really want SL to go public. No more hiding!

[superpj1]

Like they say in Alex Kid in Miracle World "you can't avoid the inevitable" ... The Anulpha Pass Zone glitch has been revealed. You can find it if you type "wipeout hd zone glitch" on Google ...

[djKyoto]

I just saw someone's put a YT video up on how to do the glitch.

Hopefully with Fury this issue will be resolved.

[rdmx]

Paul said that they'd identified the problem and that it would be fixed in time for the fury pack.

[superpj1]

Paul said that they'd identified the problem and that it would be fixed in time for the fury pack.
Thanks for the news Insertcoin ;) did they say if they would remove the Zone Zeus trophy to the people who used the glitch ?

[blackwiggle]

Like my nieces boyfriend that thought he was doing me a favor by beating Zeus with the glitch while I was out.

I came back home and he said "There's a surprise" just before he left.

I didn't know what he was on about but realized it must of had something to do with HD as that's what was what he was playing when I came back in.

They left and after a quick check saw that I suddenly had Zeus trophy.

I know he's good at zone ,I've seen him blitz my previous PB,so I wasn't that bothered.

That's until I went into records and saw level he got to 76,just made it I thought,then I looked at the perfect laps 7 .

You Fuc9ing little **** ,you used a glitch to fu9k up the game I cherish most.:bomb:bomb:bomb:evil:evil:evil

Ropeable would be a understatement on my feelings about this,I was onto KIGO like a shot,[Swapping swear words]

I was on a high after finally beating ZICO,I only had ZEUS to do and I was hitting the high 60's previously.

That's why I haven't posted Transcendence.

Because I haven't achieved it yet.

Now I have to beat 76 to have a legit zone score in the records.

Thanks you little :turd

[MAMUTH]

im sure you can make it 75 or 76 is not much of a difference, once you get into it, you will beat it.

[blackwiggle]

Unwanted BR's have been my undoing.

As it is I have to wear sunglasses to somewhat counteract the change of screen colour changes that just blanks me out if I don't.
Mainly due to a huge screen size.

Quite a ridiculous sight as my niece said .

Probably her[well meaning] idea to prompt the boyfriend to do it.:brickwall

[ProblemSolver]

@blackwiggle: Oh hell, I can feel for you. No matter what, the essence of the
Zone Zeus trophy is fukked up beyond repair.

It's too late. :(

Days before Fury gets released someone released the video to the public.
Anyways, it's SL fault. Yes, it it. Why? Because there was more than enough
time to fix the problem.

I'm done with Zone Zeus in any way. I'm done because SL dropped one of
the best trophy on all of PSN. :(

I call for a replacement!

[Eloï]

The best trophy I can get would be the satisfaction of reaching 120 on AP :hyper

Even if this will never happen as long as I can't see anything past 75...

[silverfoxy]

The amount of glitched scores on the AP leaderboard is a joke.

Its obviously gotten out how its done. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what it is, I don't know exactly but I've heard the odd whisper here or there.

The 50,000 trophy for 4 zones in the upcoming one should be increased to 100,000 and made a silver trophy as some sort of compensation.

[Asayyeah]

I remember Syncopia from Pure zone mode : there's 3 mini jumps, easy to master on slow speed but truly hard to stay on those if you reached past 45, problem is there's open area around those mini jumps i sincerly hope there's not that kind of AP glitch ...
Except that can't wait to race Corridon12 ( was my fav zone track on Pure)

[blackwiggle]

Problem Solver will be buying the Schnitzels if you beat him after 1 month in the Fury records.

That could be rather expensive Problem Solver.;)

[ProblemSolver]

@Eloï: ;)

I think SL got enough data to finally build a trophy for ZONE that really
shows off. :) Zone 120 wouldn't be a good choice, I think. A new trophy
should also care for perfect zones, perfect laps, boosts, the score, ..., and
ratios thereof. I mean, ZONE is a deterministic system (one can calculate
the optimum score etc.) and given the known data one can really build one
or two very interesting trophies for ZONE.

Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna have a trophy that only the top10
will get, hell no! Trophies should be build in a way that one starts to dive
deeper and deeper into the 'thing' such that one may finally get the
trophy because (s)he knows what it takes to be in the ZONE. There is so
much more than just simply the total amount of zones reached.

@silverfox073: Arrgh, I still have to answer your PN. Got a lot of things
to do lately. Stay tuned.

@Asayyeah: So you will be back? You suddenly somehow stopped zoning.
Why? Same holds for Wellington. But I think Fury will turn this around, right?

@blackwiggle: xD
Yeah there will be lots of guys from Pure that wanna show off what they
got. Hell, it's going to be awesome!

[blackwiggle]

PS you are a self described ZONE ADDICT.

Fair enough.

But IMHO you have began to rant about ZONE .

I'm becoming to be worried about you.

Has ZONE consumed you?
Not Healthy thought's ,enjoy something ELSE.

From reading your posts it seems a addiction/fetish/urge ,both brilliantly observant but equally disturbingly manic.

As one gentleman to another.

Take a break from ZONE

[ProblemSolver]

@blackwiggle: I tell you, with the appearance of the glitch my life has
become sort of useless. I was quite close to finish everything. :(

http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/uglyhammer2.gif

Granted, I'm just a bit too enthusiastic about the game, but that's just
because I do generally spend too much attention to detail, and because
I love it! http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/m-love5.gif But I can differentiate between all the technical things and
all those that cannot be measured. So despite I have some rants over
here I can enjoy the game as it should be + 1. http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/m-grin.gif http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/a-goodwork.gif

Atm I don't play that many different games simply because I use my PS3
mainly for Linux. The PS3 formatting tool only allows to split the HDD into
10GB + remainder (50GB in my case). And since I need more than 10GB
for Linux I've spent only 10GB for the GameOS. xD Hence, I have only my
most preferred games installed; WipEout HD and Metal Gear Online. But this
situation will change drastically over the weekend. I'm about to restructure
my entire PS3Linux and I will throw a 500GB disk (a Seagate Momentus
7200.4 (ST9500420AS)) at the GameOS. :+

Anyways, ZONE is my 'daily fix' simply because of doing some runs with the
music loud is ... uhh ... p r e t t y awwwesome. :dizzy

Last but not least, most of my posts should be read 2 times. http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/j-devil2.gif
But this doesn't mean that I don't feel a bit sad about how everything
turned out with the glitch. And yes, I wanna have a replacement! :nod

Addicted? Hell, yes!

[LOUDandPROUD]

Wait...there's an easily exploitable glitch that will allow me to get Zone Zeus with little effort? Looks like I'll be achieving Transcendance as soon as I get home from work today then! Finally! Woo-hoo! :hyper

Just kidding, everyone...LOL. :p

[ProblemSolver]

You did it like that! I tell the world! :P

[blackwiggle]

Looks like the world already knows.

I went through the first 130 pages of the ZONE records [1300 different scores] and found 122 of them that MUST of been GLITCH scores.

So 1 in 10 basically.:frown:

[Darkdrium777]

Nice. That's what happens when you wait too long. Fortunately nobody knows of Sebenco. And you never will, if you're reading this you ****ing glitchers.
This reminds me of the days on RFoM, the matches we spent glitching to go out and shoot the teddybear on the rock (All just for fun). Then people started using this glitch to cheat and win games, so they were all removed... Damn these people. :( Now we can't go and see the teddybear...
Same kind of thing, people discover some fun things to do (Admittedly the Zone glitch isn't fun, but the Vineta-K stuff is, a little... Fly Icaras huh?) and then the abusers come in and ruin it.
We had already a lot of glitched times on the boards, now we have more. There are two game modes left that are not glitched: Speed Lap and Time Trial. Sadly, none of these I play so much, Single Race is my main (Pretty ****ing useless as 90% of my very own times are glitched, thank you spectator mode; AND most of the tracks have glitched times on the first two pages), and then Zone for a "relaxed" experience (Look at the situation now)

Note to SL: I'd like to be able to delete my own glitch times and resynchronize with the server so they don't show up there anymore.

[IH8YOU]

With the "select boost" trick - even Speed Lap times could be considered glitched.

Time Trial is the last "level playground" in my eyes.

I favored TT over SL before this glitch business in the first place. ;)

[Wotan]

Time Trial is the last "level playground" in my eyes.

Maybe ... , but two of them are falsified . Both moa have glitched times ...

[pirahpac]

yes right mate : moa tt phantom 1st is glitch, sol sl 1st is glitch, moa rev ( .....),and now chengou sl flash......yeah...( and i dont talk about single races yeah.....pfff)

[silverfoxy]

Those single race times really annoy me as well. I'd have a WR if they weren't fecked. Ho hum.

I think I've worked out the glitch on Seb rev but my lips are sealed.

[leungbok]

With the "select boost" trick - even Speed Lap times could be considered glitched.

Ok, i will ask SL to delete ALL my laptimes, and also to suppress the br and shortcut possibilities, like that everybody will enjoy with high ranked scores, and if it's not sufficient we'll ask them to suppress too sideshifting and speedpads.

Ah, just in case there's a totally "legal" way of being as fast as the select-boost trick on anulpha forward and reverse (maybe faster but hard to perform), but you can wait till snowing in hell before i share any video of it.

[kaori]

Nice ideas leungbok, and why not personalize online ranking with only bots in order to be first in each case ? ;)

[blackwiggle]

I don't consider and never have the Boost BR start a cheat.

You just found a LEGITIMATE way to be faster,good for you,and thank you for sharing it with us.

Just the REAL GLITCHES have stuffed it up,look at the zone scores with perfect laps under 15 in the top 130 pages of the online records .:naughty

I had my nieces boyfriend stuff my records up....I had absolutely NO choice but to slog at it till I could eradicate the bloody thing [I eventually did it after only reaching zone 65 ] and totally smashed the bastard at zone 75

[leungbok]

I know that mate :) I make a HUGE difference between the glitch which don't need any skill and are total random and the tricks which needs great timing and precision ! ;)

[Reezy]

What about barrel rolls on sol 2 in zone mode? Is that cheating? On the slower speeds it can be quite random for hitting them.

[Wotan]

Lol , no !!! Barrel Roll isn't a cheat . That's an option and u can use it ;)

[Asayyeah]

Fully agree with you Christian, and don't get upset by those who think BsB is a cheat, let them think 'n dream it is possible to beat you if BsB was not exisiting at all but we all know they are wrong ( where they were before 1.30 ?? : not sure i remind their names into top10 :lol)

[silverfoxy]

No I don't think thats a glitch, thats taking advantage of your surroundings. It takes skill to pull them off lap after lap without making an error costing you 1% of energy and the perfect lap and zone - its counterproductive if you make a mistake so it takes skill to do it consistently (something I'm yet to master).

There are other BR opportunities in Zone if you look hard enough.

My opinion of the BSB is the same - it is taking advantage of the circumstances that have been presented themselves. I wouldn't have even thought to do something like that but hats off, its a superb move and just takes Speed laps to another level as Welly, PS and now Kingheim have taken zone to another level with their scores.

[blackwiggle]

BR's in zone are legit [as if you can avoid them sometimes],being able to regain your shield energy at high zones is and art unto itself.

I've got rather good at doing that at between zone 50-60 .

I don't believe I'm typing this,but something strange has happened.

I actually like zone mode now.:eek

[pirahpac]

( where they were before 1.30 ?? : not sure i remind their names into top10 :lol)

nice snip asa lol :clap ( " et pan! ")

[IH8YOU]

WTF is the entire country of France on their period or something? :turd

I feel that the boost select boost trick is a glitch - deal with it. The original times for SL existed before a software change - which I'm 99% positive was not implemented for this purpose. Are you clever? Yes. Does it require skill? Yup. Do I feel it's cheap? Yes.

So deal. No need to get your panties in a bunch over this. And FWIW - I'm positive I could break into the top 10 if I implemented this trick - I mean I'm 13th global WITHOUT doing it....

[ProblemSolver]

BRs add a very nice tactical element to ZONE. :+


I actually like zone mode now.:eek
:)

Btw; Congrats for doing Zone Zeus!

@IH8YOU: true

[leungbok]

I'm positive I could break into the top 10 if I implemented this trick - I mean I'm 13th global WITHOUT doing it....

Phantom class ?
And no, i'm not clever ! I don't even know that it's the country which determines the mentality !! I stupidly thought that everyone on earth were made by the same standards (with cultural and life level sometimes differents) !

And also, there's many tracks where select-boost is useless (except vin f, ub f, ap f & r) at phantom speed. So no reason that you couldn't reach top ten on these !!

[blackwiggle]

No it's rest day in the Tour De France so they have nothing better to do than to personally piss you off.

Just beat the time,I can't but I don't consider those that can cheats.

[chboing]

i'm positive i could beat hussein bolt if i used the same socks .

[Hemicrania]

if you think about it...the AP glitch isnt a glitch...just bad positioning, thus bad trackdesign.

It made feel bad though...doing it. :frown: On the other hand, it did made me pick up the single player mode again...and this time without PA. I think zone promotes the whole "flying without PA", and thats a good thing. I reached zone 40 (wich is the highest I ever gotten), and gotten the urge to play again without the PA on. Its actually pretty easy when your used to the online mayhem. I think allot of players keep playing with PA on, even though they are pretty good without...but thats another discussion.

[blackwiggle]

Security blanket

[lunar]

I was amazed when I saw what the zone glitch is, if I saw the right video anyway. I always thought respawning took away energy in Zone. It did in Pure, I think. So I guess the "zone glitch" is just a design oversight, much like boost - select - boost is a design oversight. Of course people will and should use BSB, there`s no need for any paranoia here. It also doesn`t mean we have to think it`s a good design oversight for the game. I think we can move on can`t we? HD is a fairly glitched up game if you want to be perfectionist about it - I usually do! I`m trying to get over it. :)

[blackwiggle]

i'm positive i could beat hussein bolt if i used the same socks .

I'm sure I could beat John Holmes if I had the right underpants on.;)

[LOUDandPROUD]

LOL :lol

[blackwiggle]

The ZONE glitch exists FULL STOP!
It is a GAME Gltch,programming defect.

The Boost Barrel roll Boost exists because SOMEBODY INVENTED IT!

A HUGE difference.

It's a TECHNIQUE not a GLITCH

[leungbok]

Sure ! like the first one who uses the boost of the previous lap just before the finish line, this is a clever trick. If i can even know what's a clever thing :lol
And Blackwiggle, lol ! Your reference to JH makes me think that the problem comes from that : "Who has the biggest".

[chboing]

i have

[Wotan]

like the first one who uses the boost of the previous lap just before the finish line, this is a clever trick.

Oh dear , that's a glitch too !!!! Here , u can find the right way to do a speed lap : http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6475 :lol

[ProblemSolver]

@Hemicrania: With respect to video games, it's a glitch. There is no unique
definition about a glitch. It depends on the topic.

EDIT: Can't 'believe' this thread got so many views. Lotz of lurkers. xD

[blackwiggle]

OT

Problem Solver,why does your text always appear scrunched up.

Might as well ask now rather than later.

Are you writing this on DOS system?

[leungbok]

@Wotan :blarg i must redo everything !!

[blackwiggle]

I agree.

Just make sure it's faster this time OK

[Hemicrania]

@Hemicrania: With respect to video games, it's a glitch. There is no unique
definition about a glitch. It depends on the topic.

EDIT: Can't 'believe' this thread got so many views. Lotz of lurkers. xD

yeah, yer right... But its such a stupid mistake.. and pretty obvious.

[leungbok]

I agree.

Just make sure it's faster this time OK

Faster ??? Where on earth did you see it was made to be faster ??? ...oh...hmmm...sorry...i just realise it's in the name : "SPEEDlap"...Why didn't my mother made me clever :redface:

;)

[Aeroracer]

whats a (boost - select - boost ) and whats boost-br-boost....I dont understand.:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy

[leungbok]

Here Jasmin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhcvU8VPjm4

[Aeroracer]

Thx but i still dont understand how the player pulls off all those barrel rolls even the one at the start on flat ground.

[leungbok]

The player (me ^^) boost the first time far from the finish line, then nose up , presses the select button (it invalidates the lap but gives another boost), boost again just before the finish line (the nose still up) and it allows to have enough air to perform a br at the very start of the lap (not an easy trick, that's why it's so controversial imho)

[Darkdrium777]

No, it's controversial because you are using a game feature for an unintended use.
This effectively places it under the category of exploit, unfortunately, as by definition an exploit in any video game is using something inside said game in a way for which it was not planned, in order to gain an advantage, however big or small said advantage is.
I've already given my example of Warhawk with the tank shooting through walls and being invisible, there's also the Killzone 2 autoaim exploit where if you press the zoom button repeatedly very fast you will basically lock on to your enemy. It's in the game, part of the game code, it's hard to do, but it's not ok.
But only SL can be the true judge and remove it from the game. Or not.
Either way there's enough exploits in the game already (Zone, Spectator mode...) so we don't need to be arguing over another all over again.

[Aeroracer]

Thing is all these record lap times may use this trick and it's impossible to tell unless they film it. So if you want to compete you would have to consider using it regarless of how cheap it is.

As far as i am concerned it is a glitch, but all games have them.

[xtrem_racer]

I wonder if anyone has spotted the following:
Last time i played wipeout i was checking the records in race when i was about to play with my bro, and the found that many tracks had times of 16 or 15 seconds?!, 15 seconds for 4 laps?! its even impossible to do 1 lap on anulpha pass in 15 seconds on flash speed!, just to tell if anyone noticed but is kinda annoying to see the psn ids of people that cheated as the fastest time.

[Darkdrium777]

This is a glitch that happens because of spectator mode... Unfortunately for these people it's not actually a cheat, it's an involuntary glitch, but it has ruined the single race leaderboards.
I myself have pretty much all my personal scores messed up because of this glitch, which is why I ask that SL allows people to delete the times they don't like from their rankings and then resynch with the server to remove them from there as well.

[okam]

I tried the BSB thing at one point when I was going for Zico, but I couldnt pull it off - mainly because I have to hammer the Select button like 5+ times before it registers. It is the same for the rest of you?

My current sixaxis is barely functional; sometimes I sideshift for no apparent reason, and when I do want to sideshift I usually have to pull the triggers more than twice. The left stick is also permanently stuck leaning a little bit forwards (always auto-walking when playing RPG/adventure games, haha). Right stick "clicks" itself stuck sometimes and I have to snap it loose... I was able to borrow a newer controller for doing the zone stuff and I realised I dont suck at zone as much as I thought I did, I was just being sabotaged my controller.

[Darkdrium777]

I would look into buying a new controller, or see if cleaning the one you have will help (With the number of issues you have probably not, but still check it out inside if you can.)
Although for the BSB, pressing select too early when the first boost is active will not award you the second turbo pickup. That is a timing thing.

[okam]

I myself have pretty much all my personal scores messed up because of this glitch, which is why I ask that SL allows people to delete the times they don't like from their rankings and then resynch with the server to remove them from there as well.

Agreed, I think there should be a "submit time/score" button, or the ability to clear your own times... I say this because of my glitched zone score. My 13 year old neighbour, who is a total trophy whore and will do anything to get them just so he can brag to his friends, did the zone glitch here at my place. I watched him do it, saying "hey, cool, now you have your zone zeus trophy!" - then I noticed he was still logged into *my* account (I have scolded him for that many times since he accidentally got one of the Skate 2 trophies "for me" - not a hard one, but I wanted to do it myself (the 10 ft grass gap).

Whats even MORE STUPID is that later that night, I managed zone 76 properly (with his controller)... so I scream with joy (partially because my previous best was zone 69 o.O (guess I was in the zone, hahaha, yeah... nvm), and fall silent as I hear the trophy "bling" sound... wtf I got that earlier in the evening I thought... nope, was logged in on his accont this time... I just got the trophy on HIS account on MY PS3!!!

I believe Tweedle said they will clean up the AP zone boards tho so I hope they yank that one off there and save me from looking like a right arse ^^

[ProblemSolver]

@okam: lol
Btw; Get a DS3. SIXAXIS lacks precision.


Finally, the glitch is gone -- 20th December 2008 - 21st July 2009.
That's why I love the internet, everything can be done so fast.

[Aeroracer]

I'm glad they are cleaning all the crap out of the game. It discourages cheats and scrubs from spoiling skilled players fun and players wanting to become skillful like meeee..:dizzy:dizzy:dizzy

[Motorsagmannen]

but still, i checked today. 30 out of the top 50 records on AP forward were accomplished using the glitch. and this include the first 16!!

lot of damage is done but at least im glad that this is the end to this travesty.

[Darkdrium777]

The problem is, and I've been thinking about this since I first said the glitch was gone, couldn't people skip updating the game, get into Zone, achieve Zone Zeus and Airbraker (potentially Own The Zone too) by doing this glitch, then updating and have their score uploaded (willingly or not, as syncing uploads all scores anyways)?
Because AFAIK the PS3 gives you the choice to skip downloading patch updates when the prompt comes up. It forces you to play offline, but it works...
They would have to lock out obtaining trophies for older versions of the game. I don't know if that's possible though.

[okam]

BTW how long does it take for scores to get uploaded? My glitched score is up there, but my friend's score isnt... they were set the same evening, on the same PS3 connected to the internet. I have noticed in other cases that race times have taken a looong time to synch.

Re. controllers; I havent tried DS3 yet, just the sixaxis. What are the most important differences between the two?


but still, i checked today. 30 out of the top 50 records on AP forward were accomplished using the glitch. and this include the first 16!!

lot of damage is done but at least im glad that this is the end to this travesty.

Tweedle said they would clean up the AP scoreboards after Fury is released :D

[Darkdrium777]

Dualshock 3 > Sixaxis, not just because of the rumble, but because it doesn't have the "random button presses" issue.
That depends when you got your Sixaxis though, the very late ones also don't have the issue, but the very first ones (My two) have it. It only affects wireless mode, and my problem was the triangle button. Quite annoying when I was playing RFoM online as that was the melee button. I don't really want to melee when I'm zooming in xD

[Aeroracer]

The problem is, and I've been thinking about this since I first said the glitch was gone, couldn't people skip updating the game, get into Zone, achieve Zone Zeus and Airbraker (potentially Own The Zone too) by doing this glitch, then updating and have their score uploaded (willingly or not, as syncing uploads all scores anyways)?
Because AFAIK the PS3 gives you the choice to skip downloading patch updates when the prompt comes up. It forces you to play offline, but it works...
They would have to lock out obtaining trophies for older versions of the game. I don't know if that's possible though.
don't really know. I thought about that just before i said yes to the update. I came to the conclusion getting zone 100+ with a glitch means nothing apart from you believe you dont have the capability to match players who really have done it. So i pressed update.:nod:nod

[ProblemSolver]

@okam: Well, I had a SIXAXIS and the accuracy of both analog stick were
inferior. It was like heaven playing MGO with a DS3 in term of movement
and aiming. I would quit playing WipEout HD when forced playing with a
SIXAXIS! Further, I need the rumble pack coz it gives me an additional
important information.

[khnemu23]

I second...or third(?)...or fourth(?) the ability to delete personal records. I will admit (in shame of course) that I used the glitch to get the Zone Zeus trophy today, but I really wish that I could delete it from my records.

I'm trying to get to zone 75 legitimately and it sucks to have that 75 staring me in the face while my 48, 47, etc. zone records get overshadowed. I guess that it is my fault for using the glitch, but I hope that such an option (deleting personal records) will be included in the next update.

At least I can take solace in the fact that my airbreaker trophy (whenever I manage to crack zone 50) will be legit.

[Darkdrium777]

Oh man...
Why??? :|

[silverfoxy]

Is it just me or have a lot of glitchers joined the site lately ??

No offence to the glitchers but either do Zone Zeus properly or don't bother ....

[blackwiggle]

I second...or third(?)...or fourth(?) the ability to delete personal records. I will admit (in shame of course) that I used the glitch to get the Zone Zeus trophy today, but I really wish that I could delete it from my records.

I'm trying to get to zone 75 legitimately and it sucks to have that 75 staring me in the face while my 48, 47, etc. zone records get overshadowed. I guess that it is my fault for using the glitch, but I hope that such an option (deleting personal records) will be included in the next update.

At least I can take solace in the fact that my airbreaker trophy (whenever I manage to crack zone 50) will be legit.

Have a look at your SCORE ,not the number of zones,I you or somebody else has used the glitch to get ZEUS the score will be pretty low,so all you have to do is beat that with a lot of perfect laps and it will better the glitch score and wipe it from the records ,you can do that way before zone 75 thankfully.
Then go for 75 Zone Zeus.

[Darkdrium777]

Still doesn't excuse the fact that he cheated in a game to gain an achievement which has truly no meaning at all apart from the fact that you did it or not.
IMHO people like this deserve all the flak they get. I just don't understand cheating, it's so low and a testament to the laziness of the person. :/ It just plain sucks.
Now because of people like this, Zone mode on Anulpha Pass is truly corrupted. Thank you, thank you all, as if there weren't enough with the bugs of spectator mode that added invalid times into the single race ones.
Don't take it personal khnemu23 because you posted it, but I hate all cheaters and wish they were all banned from the game. Stop ****ing the game up and being so selfish. Play it as best you can and try to improve your skills, this is what anything in life is about.

[blackwiggle]

Is spectator mode still there?

I didn't see the option when I highlighted over the online games being played.

[Darkdrium777]

Yeah it's still there, you have to join the game, select your ship, and then press the start button to spectate.

[nexusc]

Indeed, the only real reward you get from completing zone zeus is that ultimate rush of euphoria, that you just don't get if you cheat.. I am pretty sure I was close to having an out of body experience the day I hit zone 75.. it's become one my my best memorable gaming moments, and not just a tick on a sheet. :)

[okam]

So the DS3 is that much better? My sixaxis is probably 1st gen; I bought my PS3 used last winter (and no way in hell is the controller as "lightly used" as the ad stated, hah).

My only gripe with the sixaxis (besides mine being borked) is that the left analog stick is too "tall" making some things, like aiming the bow in Oblivion, a bit... wobbly ^^ But you get used to that, and you cope.

Will check out the DS3 next time I'm at the shops, thanks for the advice.

[djKyoto]

My friend who's never played WipEout before (suggested the game to him), got both Zeus and Zico within a few days of starting by practising.

Don't see why other have to take the easy way out.

[khnemu23]

Still doesn't excuse the fact that he cheated in a game to gain an achievement which has truly no meaning at all apart from the fact that you did it or not.
IMHO people like this deserve all the flak they get. I just don't understand cheating, it's so low and a testament to the laziness of the person. :/ It just plain sucks.
Now because of people like this, Zone mode on Anulpha Pass is truly corrupted. Thank you, thank you all, as if there weren't enough with the bugs of spectator mode that added invalid times into the single race ones.
Don't take it personal khnemu23 because you posted it, but I hate all cheaters and wish they were all banned from the game. Stop ****ing the game up and being so selfish. Play it as best you can and try to improve your skills, this is what anything in life is about.

I make no excuses for me cheating and fully deserve to be called out for it. It was a selfish act and I fully realize that what I did was wrong. I tried to get the trophy early (I say early because I am improving greatly at Zone by playing it an hour a day) because I have to return to college in the fall and won't have time to practice Wipeout until next summer (even then I'll have summer school and so I will only be around my ps3 for a couple of weeks out of the year). I know this doesn't excuse my actions and if I could undo the trophy and the score I would, but that isn't an available option.

I too dislike cheaters (which I believe shows from the feelings of regret I have at cheating). Cheating invalidates the leaderboard and punishes people who have put in a lot of time and effort in achieving praiseworthy scores.

[Hemicrania]

I cheated too, but im a trophy whore....so its allowed ;)

just kidding guys, its terrible... I know... Specially now that im flying without PA, zone is really good for practice on the various tracks....ow well

[Darkdrium777]

Yes, you made a mistake and seem to care for fairness by presenting your apologies here, which is something that the others who cheat seem to lack and that is what I truly hate. The amount of selfishness and laziness these persons exude is sickening. :-
That zone 2000 guy who popped up. Seriously, taping the controller and taking a hike huh? If you're this much of an idiot in real life I hope you have troubles sleeping at night.

I hope you will not do this again khnemu23.

[Reezy]

I used a DS3 for the first time yesterday and didn't like it :O
I've become so used to my old sixaxis with its squeeky left analog stick that doesn't rebound back to central position anymore, that it just felt weird. Also it seemed that any slight movements with the stick wasn't moving the craft at all. It was nice to have rumble though :)

[ProblemSolver]

I guess those cheaters would even use PA if it would be possible. http://www.consolewars.de/messageboard/images/smilies/m-rofl3.gif

@Reezy: If mapping the airbrakes to R3 & L3 would be an advantage,
I would do it no matter what. Btw; I actually used this layout for a few
days. xD

[LOUDandPROUD]

@okam: Well, I had a SIXAXIS and the accuracy of both analog stick were
inferior. It was like heaven playing MGO with a DS3 in term of movement
and aiming. I would quit playing WipEout HD when forced playing with a
SIXAXIS! Further, I need the rumble pack coz it gives me an additional
important information.


Well, my DS3 started pulling right a couple of months ago, so I had to shelve it in favor of the two SIXAXIS controllers I have. Got to zone 60 using them and plan on getting to zone 75 with them too. No prissy DS3 for Zone Zeus...the manly and challenging SIXAXIS is the only way to go for true zone purists! :p

[ProblemSolver]

lol

Yeah have fun with your MISSINGAXIS. :P

[Hemicrania]

Yes, you made a mistake and seem to care for fairness by presenting your apologies here, which is something that the others who cheat seem to lack and that is what I truly hate. The amount of selfishness and laziness these persons exude is sickening. :-
That zone 2000 guy who popped up. Seriously, taping the controller and taking a hike huh? If you're this much of an idiot in real life I hope you have troubles sleeping at night.

I hope you will not do this again khnemu23.

2000?????? then yer just beeing an ***... pardon my french. I quit @ 76, just enough to get the trophy thats it..

[NightArh]

Maybe that guy have a controller that can record button pressures and repeat them later :twisted

[okam]

Well, my DS3 started pulling right a couple of months ago, so I had to shelve it in favor of the two SIXAXIS controllers I have. Got to zone 60 using them and plan on getting to zone 75 with them too. No prissy DS3 for Zone Zeus...the manly and challenging SIXAXIS is the only way to go for true zone purists! :p

IMO the sixaxis is a perfectly fine controller and I don't think one would have any problems doing zone 75+ or anything else with it, but mine is just worn out and barely functional. Especially the involentary sideshifts are pissing me off!

I have read up on the DS3 and a lot of people are claiming it's more responsive and robust, and also heavier and more solid. The sixaxis does feel a bit cheap, being so light... Since I live in the most expensive country on earth, I will wait until I go abroad next month before I get a new controller :P

BTW does anyone know if its possible to fix/change analog sticks that aren't properly aligned? Getting a bit fed up with auto-walking everywhere in Bioshock (allthough it was nice in Fallout).

[Darkdrium777]

Open it and clean it, see if something is stuck somewhere? Also I'm pretty sure you could buy a mainboard for it online, complete with battery pack, and exchange it. But that's essentially like buying a new controller.

[okam]

Might be easier/cheaper to just get a new one... I'll see if I can get it open; just the screws underneath, right?

[Darkdrium777]

Yes, but if you don't know what you're doing:
It's super easy to get it apart.
It's a pain to get back together.

You get used to putting it back together, but I recommend you have a guide handy in case you need it.
I also recommend washing the controller pieces, buttons, etc. (Not the mainboard!) with soap and running water, then let them dry on a towel for about half a day or so. ;)

[ProblemSolver]

IMO the sixaxis is a perfectly fine controller and I don't think one would have any problems doing zone 75+ or anything else with it, but mine is just worn out and barely functional.
For sure, there are multiple ways to cross the street. Some ways are faster
than others and likewise even more secure, I think. ;)

[okam]

let them dry on a towel for about half a day or so. ;)

Dude, I have an expansion to play, I have no time for that ;) Actually it looks like I don't have a small enough screwdriver for the screws, so it will have to wait anyway. Should be allright for Fury for a while, I did manage platinum with it and it's still precise enough for Skate 2 which will do me nicely.

My old PS2 controllers are still fine after 6+ years of heavy usage, so maybe I should look into getting a converter.

BTW should anyone now feel inspired to open/clean their controllers, I found this guide:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=3575830&query.id=29340

[okam]

(double post)

[ProblemSolver]

OT

Problem Solver,why does your text always appear scrunched up.

Might as well ask now rather than later.

Are you writing this on DOS system?

DOS? xD

I just once wrote the following;


...
Sorry, but reading a text in a more column-like fashion is much more
efficient and also more pleasing (despite you have to scroll a little) than
those badly-formated-oversized HTML layouts. For some very good reasons
I write my text with <= 80 characters per line. There exists only one
typesetting system which really does its job, LaTeX (http://www.latex-project.org/) (wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX))! The rest is simply
a sh!t load of crap, you name it; Word, HTML, ..., soo bad. LaTeX is Gutenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Gutenberg)
in a digital form.

There is a long way to go to bring on an efficient typesetting system to the
internet. Each research article, each book, and each newspager is far beyond
what can be seen on the web. The problem is, you all got used to that crap a
lot such that you now say; the way the board software does it, is the right way
to go. Sorry, but no! ;) ...

[Darkdrium777]

BTW should anyone now feel inspired to open/clean their controllers, I found this guide:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=3575830&query.id=29340Rubbing alcohol if you're patient and want to get it back together soon (alcohol evaporates but applying it with a Q-tip is long), kitchen sink or bath and stir with a large spatula if you're not :lol xD
Because it already takes some time taking apart/putting back together.

[nexusc]

I'm just curious.. what does zone 2000 actually look like? Epilepsy anyone...

[Hellfire_WZ]

Is it possible to register scores online with an earlier version of the game? It seems some people are downgrading the game to exploit the glitch again for Zone Zeus.

[Matt_XIII_67]

I stoped playing zone on Anulpha Pass since there are so many cheated records. I was realy hoping SL would clean the leaderboard for the Fury release, well at least they corrected the glitch in 2.00. But just look at the amount of cheating players, the 2000 zones and now your telling some are downgrading to cheat... I just don't understand such behaviour.:?

[RobCoxy]

I stoped playing zone on Anulpha Pass since there are so many cheated records.

Same here. I think SL said they are going to fix it eventually, so until that happens i'm going to spend my zone time on other tracks. SYNCOPIA! :)

[ProblemSolver]

For the sake of competeness; the leaderboard of Anulpha Pass is fixed. Holy!