Pilot Assist is an insult

[kingadrock311]

There are not enough foul words in the english language to say how bad I hate pilot assist

It is truly an insult to long time fans from PSX days who enjoy the wipeout series for the purity and difficulty of its gameplay, and I'm truly sad to see my favorite game series being constantly dumbed down to cater to gamers who think games are just too hard these days


Does anyone know where I can sign a petition or at least email the developers about removing Pilot Assist from online games that i create or at LEAST GIVE US THE OPTION TO DISABLE IT??

:bomb:bomb:bomb

[KIGO1987]

You seem quite pissed about PA. You can turn it off in the option settings. But i think SL is trying to entice a larger audience by creating the option on PA for the more basic players.

Right now there are more things to be pissed off over like, why the **** is Vigilante 8 on the goddam ****ing ****box console on ****box live instead of the PS3 Playstation Store. Really not happy about that:bomb:bomb:bomb:bomb. I hope there are more cases of rings of death for the consoles who have that game. It would be good if microsoft are struggling in this economic crisis i want to see those bastards go bankrupt.

[b4p]

oh man this is great.

i agree; PA should at least be disabled for the higher two speed classes. If you can't avoid walls on phantom, maybe you shouldnt be racing on phantom. Just my opinion.

[FrenkyV]

Eventually PA slows you down around 30%.

In online races ill fly by those noobs anytime.

I always laugh when i see them zig-zagging at the small upper lane @ analpha pass at 100 Km/H... And then finishing last :P

[H3avyM3tal]

If I know how to race, it doesn't matter to me who is using PA online. When I race with people I know I care, but than so are they, and since everyone is on the same page, we're ok with PA (since non of us use it).

I say let everyone play as they like. And play with your friends they you all like to.

[TheFrostE]

i don't think it was really created to "cater to gamers who think games are too hard nowadays". it was for people who were new to the series , so they can learn the tracks easier since there is no mini track in-race like in a lot of other racing games. it even says this in game. stating to turn it on to make it easier to learn the tracks.

but personally i don't care if people use it or not, it only hinders you and makes your lines terrible in the higher speed classes.

[kingadrock311]

why should some newb who doesnt know how to steer be allowed to swerve all over my track?


thats like saying nascar drivers should be allowed on formula one tracks at the same time:+

[H3avyM3tal]

You are taking is too seriously, and it's not your track.
How is them playing with PA on makes it hard for you to play? They are just making themsleves easy target. Other players with PA on has no impact on how you play.

[crawdad62]

How is them playing with PA on makes it hard for you to play?

The better I get the less I care whether others are using PA or not. Usually if they're fairly decent they don't have it on if there marginal players with it on I'm usually past them right at the start anyway. However they can be a hinderance because they usually don't follow a line any line. They're all over the place. I know I've had my poor little Harimau absolutely creamed by some guy in a big Quirex while he's flying back and forth. They don't follow a racing line because they don't have to. That is the rub (no pun intended).

But as I say the better I get the less they bother me. In fact I've sort of forgotten them even though it would be nice to have the option of setting up a room void of PA.

[klax75]

There needs to be a host option to turn it on or off. Yes it does help people new to the series. I've had several races where I am punished for not using it, where they literally slam me off the track, and I am sent to the last spot and lose. Just making a host option makes the most sense, since there is no way of telling when you join a race to see who is using it or not.

I was in one race where it was hard to pass since 4 people in front of me where pin-balling all over the place. Since when they bump me in to the wall I come to a virtual dead stop and they just keep right on going.

[kingadrock311]

exactly, imagine a real car race on TV where there were amateur drivers who cant follow a line racing against professionals... it would be a disaster:cake

[judus]

As H3avyM3tal said, its not THAT big a deal. The feature was added to welcome new players to the series. Yet, when we do have new players zig-zagging on phantom, should we criticise them for trying? They are atleast one better than those who dismiss the game without even giving it a try.

If you need a challenge, there are enough people here to give you a hard time keeping up let alone over take :P

[H3avyM3tal]

The comaprison between WO and F1 or NASCAR is very wrong. First, the rules are worlds apart. There is no rule in WO that forces you to let the faster car/craft pass you safely, so the thing about race line in this game is something that we players agree on, and therefore a rule we make for our own benefit.
2ndly, the game has weapons... so it's not really your normal racer. You can do anything in this game; you can play unfairly if you want to. That is one of the game's premises - it is a dark (well not so anymore :P ) and gruesome sport, where a pilot can get his arse blown to bits.

So what is the point of thinking that race-lines and such rules are mandetory? I think that if we start play the game the harsh way, we will find another aspects of the game interesting.

Besides, you want fair races, we have Avalon here :)

[KGB]

My seven year old son would disagree with you about pilot assist (start em young!) ;). He just wouldn't play if he was hitting the sides all the time, he and his friends think they are brilliant.

What does it matter if people race with it on, as long as they are having fun. It makes it interesting trying to get past them without being hit.

In fact Kanar should include it in his next Avalon meet: Pilot Assist on, weapons off.:twisted.

Joking of course.

[Wellington86]

You also posted this on the gamefaqs boards, where you claim PA has ruined the game for you, and particularly the online which is 'useless'.

I have only used PA once, for the trophy, but as far as I recall it does not make you zigzag all over the track? Moreover, I have never once identified someone in a race as using PA. Even when I was as bad at the game as anyone who's new (which I was for a good couple of weeks) I never thought to myself that I was being beaten by people using PA. My guess is anyone using PA will lapped by any player on this site in a phantom race.

It is a legitimate tool for those who want to use it to learn the game, and in my experience it does nothing at all to ruin online play.

If you're losing I assure you it has nothing to do with other players using PA.

[eLhabib]

While I don't think PA breaks the game, there certainly are some occasions in which I wished PA was banned from online play (at least at the higher speeds). On a technically difficult track, like Sebenco, for example, PA gives rather decent players the possibility to fly almost perfect. Of course, any good player will pull ahead of a PA user rather quickly, but if you start in the last position on phantom Sebenco, and some people in front of you are using PA, it can be quite a bitch to try and pull past them. PA makes them go on rails, they will slam you brutally if you get too close, and on really curvy tracks they will indeed appear to zigzag from side to side. It's not a problem for players at our level, Wellington, but for aspiring pilots who aren't quite there yet, racing phantom with other players using PA can actually put them at a disadvantage.

[H3avyM3tal]

How exactly does it put them at a disadvantage? It is not a cheat, and it can be useful only on technical tracks. It still is slower, so on the less technical tracks PA players will lose. It doesn't give any edge whatsoever.

As for making it difficult to win on one or two tracks... It is up to the player.

[eLhabib]

It puts inexperienced players without PA at a disadvantage, because in a turn, when the PA of the PA-using player is active, he will act like in autopilot, meaning that he will ram aside anyone that's in his way, and possibly ramming the non-PA-using players to the walls.

[kingadrock311]

I am a wipeout purist- i believe autopilot should never have been in the game , let alone this ridiculous pilot assist - and i'm not a big fan AT ALL of these new steering features - barrel roll and side shift nonsense!! i miss the pure wipeout where skills were important

[eLhabib]

Don't miss them - they are still there. Just pop them into your PS1 and off you go :P

Now seriously, we got your point: you don't like PA. But no need to spam it all over the boards. Just train more. If you get fast enough, PA won't bother you anymore, trust me ;)

[kingadrock311]

is replying to other people's threads considered spamming now?

[H3avyM3tal]

Seriously, the only problem that PA can cause is making inexperienced players realize they don't have enough experience.

Besides, you talk about PA like it pleages online and that 95% of the racers who race online use it and rams you aside.

1st: It is not a pleague.
2nd: Learn to race better so that you don't get another ship puncturing your hull.
3rd: Get friends on your list who doesn't use PA.
4th: Try to understand new racers.
5th: Have fun.
6th: Try to realize that ramming can and will occur when racing, as is for example in nascar.
7th: As the game is not a pure racing game, don't think of it as one.
8th: Don't avoid players with PA, but instead try to educate them about it (in a nice way).
9th: Once upon a time, you were not a purist/elitist. You were a new racer aswell.
10th: Have friggin' fun!

PA is not ruining online experience, it is just making you think on new ways to play. As it is possible, and quite easily possible, to win over a PA racer, it is not a cheat. It is a helping mechanism, and one with which I never ran into trouble with yet.

PA is a tool. It is not making amy other player into god or something. Learn to use the tool to your advantage.

[kingadrock311]

1st: It is not a pleague.

what is a pleague?

[Connavar]

^ "plague" probably

[quantum-avatar]

I agree that there needs to be an option to turn it off, getting bounced off the track by someone who still needs to practice at lower speeds can really ruin a tournament.

That said its a great addition as my girfriend was able to complete a race :hyper

[kingadrock311]

Does anyone know the email address to Studio Liverpool, so i can ask them to give us the option in the next patch to disable pilot assist when creating a game , it would be pretty simple to implement i think - then the games in the lobby would simply have an icon or something saying * pilot assist not allowed for this race

[eLhabib]

lol
Believe me, they already know we want that option. I think they pretty much realised that on September 26 ;)

[kingadrock311]

man, that would make the game almost perfect for me -- I cant believe they sell this game for 19.99 it should be 50 bux

[TheFrostE]

not enough content for 50-60 yet...imo, but hopefully soon dlc

[Task]

is replying to other people's threads considered spamming now?When every reply you write says the same thing, yes, that's the definition of spamming.
We've several times had members get "stuck" on some particular topic and really beat it to death every chance they got. The banhammer does eventually come out for that.

There's a lot of good suggestions here though. This forum was once filled with pilots who were really worried about what PA would do to the game. Now it is filled with pilots who say it's not a big deal. They tend to know what they're talking about, I'd listen to them.

Or you could try and flame the designers. I don't think you're going to get any help on that, though.

[TheFrostE]

* pictures Jay dressed like THOR holding a legendary banhammer*

[kingadrock311]

ok i'll make sure i only say something only one time on this entire site regardless of the thread i'm chatting on in the future, if i said it on one thread, i will remember to not say it on any other threads:naughty:naughty:naughty

[b4p]

everyone needs to relax ;)

[klax75]

It puts inexperienced players without PA at a disadvantage, because in a turn, when the PA of the PA-using player is active, he will act like in autopilot, meaning that he will ram aside anyone that's in his way, and possibly ramming the non-PA-using players to the walls.

Yep that is the point I've tried to make. They won't hit the wall, but for someone starting in the back trying to pass them on a curving track. They bounce back and forth then hit me not using PA so when I get hit, I slam in to the wall, to a stop. That is the main issue for me.

I am fine with people using it to learn. I know I am not the best but I don't use PA. Why not make it so if you come across someone using PA and your not, they can't ram you at all. Only other PA uses.

It has changed my online since I would rather do Speed Laps then play PA's players. So most of the time I never go online at all.

[eLhabib]

Then maybe try to fill up your friendlist with people you know, from the 'zone or elsewhere. When I go online, I always have people I know to race with. If you race somebody, and he is at your level, and not using PA, just send him a friend request - easy as that.

[KGB]

Got to say. I only remember seeing someone with PA on about 5 times, in all the races Ive had online and Ive raced alot. :dizzy

Don't know where your finding them at. What time of day do you play. Is it after school? Maybe there are alot of kids on at the same time .

If you go on later at night you will find very few people using it. Although you might think they have permanent Auto pilot and Shield on. ;)

[ElectroBolt]

Sorry guys, but could you be more specific in how you figure out that a player is using PA in online races? I have never really noticed it myself, I've only suspected it in few occasions.

[KGB]

The way the ship zig-zags across the track without actually hitting the sides or slowing down too much. This to me is a sign of PA.

[kingadrock311]

Electrobolt, you just hit the nail right on the head - this is one of my biggest gripes about pilot assist usage - that there isnt an icon or some way to tell that someone is using pilot assist to race~!!! the only way you can tell is the funny way they swerve all over the track like a drunk driver ---:sonar

[OBH]

I havnt noticed it myself.

Until the day comes on anulpha pass bridge, where a ship ahead of me perposly veers off course so he can bash us off the track as we attempt to pass... i have no beef with PA. All the best racing lines are too close to the walls for PA to cope with anyway.

[Cerium]

It is rather annoying to be getting slammed trying to get around someone with PA... especially when there's someone already in front of them who's actually worth racing.

Nothing sucks the fun out of a race for me than having someone who's going to take (close to) last keep me from competing with everyone else.

[TheFrostE]

haydn is right, you cant even get a good line with PA

[Axel]

The snake corners on Sebenco climb, open areas of SOL 2 and Anulpha Pass Bridge are the only areas I can think of where poor PA users get on my nerves. The problem is after they knock you off, they will stay on. Fustrating!

[Dark_Vincent]

Hey hey... Excuse me and nice to meet you all people of the WipEout community.

As you may have noticed I'm just a new guy in the community, but as someone with the insight of a hardcore in other game communities, when I started WipEout I asked myself what the hardcore followers of this series thought of the Pilot Assist.

Yes, it makes the game a lot easier for newcomers. Me included! I have played WipEout Pulse on the PSP but could never race properly. It just never gives you a chance to "learn" the nuances of WipEout and so I was there stuck in the first course for a few days until I moved on to something else.
I love a good challenge, yes, but I like to have the chance to learn how to overcome it. Pulse never gave me that. Coupled with the fact I have never been into racing games (being the WipEout series the only one that always caught my attention since 32-bit days), the learning curve was just too much for a starter.

When WipEout HD was released, I decided I would get it and give the series another try. Much to my rejoice, there was the Pilot Assist feature, it helped me playing the game and getting past a few races without much of a problem. The game became fun while still keeping a good deal of challenge (even after the patch, I still play on Elite difficulty in every campaign race). I knew I didn't want to become reliant on Pilot Assist forever, it was obvious to me that a good WipEout player doesn't use that and in fact races better without it. As I said, I'm a dedicated player in other games/communities, so I can understand the "inner works" of a good player's gameplay style. In fact, I came to these forums exactly because of that, I was looking for advice and alternative ways to learn better steering and other specific WipEout skills to finally drop Pilot Assist and who knows even play Pulse during lunch break at work or something.

BUT I can't deny what Pilot Assist has been doing for me while "I'm not there yet". I would hate it if Pilot Assist becomes mandatory, but as long as it's optional, I think it pleases both sides (casuals, newcomers and oldschool) without pissing off any, there's no reason to hate the feature when thanks to it you got more people willing to give the series a try (or in my case, another try) and possibly joining your ranks, increasing the competition and eventually raising the bar along with everyone else here. It's a win-win situation.

I know there are instances where Pilot Assist removes a good chunk of the challenge (the one course where they can just zig-zag and throw you away), but if it gets too bad for you (which it shouldn't, imo, since you should be away ahead of them) you can turn it on for just that specific race. And yeah, noob Phantom racers must be annoying to deal with, I myself admit that beyond Flash it gets too stupid and is basically like auto-pilot the whole race for me, at least for now. Therefore I'm taking it easy and just getting the hang of things in lower speed classes with Pilot Assist and eventually without it, before I move on to higher levels.

There you go, this is the opinion of a "Pilot Assist noob". Please don't flame me ^^' And I hope to join your ranks eventually. If anyone can help me with anything or have the patience to teach, my PSN ID is Dark_Vincent

Thanks in advance!

P.S: lol Wall 'O Text for first post!

[H3avyM3tal]

Welcome to da Zone! You should introduce yourself in the Pilot's Lounge though...

I have never played with PA, only for the trophy, but I agree with you 100%, well said. We can't all get what we want without considering other people's wishes. The PA problem can be overcome very easily by just playing with friends, and not random online sessions.

[eLhabib]

Hi Dark Vincent, welcome to the 'Zone!
Your post expresses exactly why I think PA is a good thing in the end: it gets more people to play the game.
However, as an advice for getting better, I can only tell you to turn off PA right away and bite it for the first couple of days. There is no way of getting really good at this game if you're using PA. Go to racebox and select Speed Lap on a track that you feel accustomed to, and then start doing lap after lap. Start slow, and once you're not hitting walls any more, increase the speed class. And be sure to use a craft with a high handling stat - helps for learning :)

[Dark_Vincent]

Hey guys, thanks for the welcomes.

Inspired by what I've been reading here I decided to try and drive without PA anymore on the first two courses of campaign mode. Guess what? I ended up improving my times by several seconds! O.O

But yeah I can only race decently on Venom and Flash for now. If I go Rapier without PA I won't finish the course most likely. I did improve my time on Rapier too, but that was on Time Trial, where Energy isn't an issue.

I'm also trying out crafts with better Handling (when I started playing the game, I was mostly a Piranha guy), so I guess that helps too =)

Sorry for the 'sort-of-off-topic' btw ;)

[Connavar]

Hello! I agree with you, I'm glad they included the feature because it allows
more people to join, which is good for 2 reasons:

1) more people means more sales, so we'll get more support (DLC, patches)

2) some of those new players will become really good and keep the game
entertaining for the best players