Is Harimau the weakest craft in the game??

[OBH]

I ask after a few hectic avalon races, where i was repeatedly getting knocked off the track. Every time i brushed paint with another craft I swear I was on the losing side (except elhabibs assagi, that was a real battle!) Originally I thought if you had the racing line you can essentially "shove" another craft aside, but wellingtons feisar just wasnt budging :)

Not to be biast though, I got involved in a few online races using the other craft, and noticed i was happily barging my way through, especially with triakis and ag. I know it wasnt the same quality of competition, so difficult to really judge unless I was against you guys.

Just wondered on your thoughts. No doubt everyone feels hard done by when they get crashed into regardless of ship, but hey :)

[darkfaerytales]

no, why? the weakest...maybe the most underdog or the most underrated

[Figlarz]

Hey, my Feisar got slammed by Wellington's Feisar too !!! :D This isn't fair, because I am always loosing with him :P And it happens always when try to slam anyone. Maybe I can't just slam? I prefer more "technical" driving so it is a huge problem for me :/

[pildog]

Whatever craft I use I seem to get knocked all over the place, not just the Harimau and the Assegai.:rolleyes:

[H3avyM3tal]

I never understood the reason for that craft to exist. Why bother with it's weak stats? If people like the looks than just make is a skin or something. This craft feel so light and there is nothing in it that makes me, personally, pilot it.

Every other craft feels much better to me, not to mention, there is atleast one area where each craft is strong in, but with Harimau...

[mdhay]

Besides, that thing looks like moulded play-doh where the colours have fused and it's stuck like that.

[darkfaerytales]

not to offense anyone. sincerely i don't undertand some people, i never understand and never still, what the hell you want, end up in racing with less teams possible? i don't understand certain people around who scream " rid off harimau " " what the sense " " why there's a ship like harimau " " what its existence mean " and or whatever non-sense rant , you don't like it simply don't get it , don't use it, do not race with it...
many people like it, i like to race with harimau for ex., why people around complains that harimau is in hd really never understand.
why? i can tell you why, because too much people around wants to win and the thing end there, don't matter anything else, only win, some people really don't give a **** about fun
WTF if it should be for some people future wipeouts will have 4-6 teams , cause others do not own the super magick win factor

[Darkdrium777]

Harimau is good. Although it doesn't stand out in any area apart from looks, I still like it. More than Assegai (No offense) because of the awesome yellow and black skin (Assegai's are all the same sadly :/)

But to be honest I like all the teams. They're just all so well balanced. Now if only VanUber and Tigron could pop in without being 'teh ship' that would make the family complete. :D

[darkfaerytales]

darkdrium hits the point!:D:+

cheers:beer

[Wellington86]

@Darkfaerytales, I think the reason a lot of people see the Harimau as superfluous is that it has identical stats to the Assegai except for slightly weaker Thrust. So on the surface there is no reason whatsoever to use the Harimau when you can use the Assegai. My guess is that having less thrust might be seen as an advantage when you have to quickly brake after a BR, e.g. on Sebenco. But off the top of my head I don't think the TT and SL experts seem to use it much, so it's probably just there for aesthetic variation, as you say.

OT: I seem to remember someone saying that the weaker a ship's shield stat the more it will be affected by shunting and by weapons. I can't really tell myself, but if that's true then that would explain why my Feisar stood up to your Harimau ;).

[blackwiggle]

Well Leungbok uses Harimau a lot and seems to set good TT and SL times.

As for getting bashed about or bashing somebody else about while racing.
I think you can boil down what your likelihood of success will be to two things,first being what view you race in and the second being what steering method you use.

3rd person far view with A/Stick would have the best success,you can see all craft around you far better and you have finer control over the steering.

Which explains why me, with 1st person cockpit view and D-Pad are inevitably going to get shoved back through the pack during the course of a race :frown:

[trentdf]

i dont think harimau should be judged on its stats, as they're just a guide. Just because ships have '9' handling doesnt mean they handle the same, similar maybe, but not the same. I don't mind harimau, it does have its own feel, and thats what matters- if you fly with the right style, it can still be quick.

ps. - do you guys really think harimau feels light? i think it feels like a nimble brick :D

[eLhabib]

I think Harimau now certainly has reason to be in the game, more so than in Pure and Pulse. First of all it now finally looks like an AG-craft, the refined shape is ace, and the yellow livery is the killer! Also, I would not compare it to Assegai, it's a whole different beast. I tried Harimau quite extensively, and I believe it's definitely the most accessible ship for TT and SL. Any beginner who wants to start going for times on Phantom should start out with Harimau. It has a very direct handling feel to it, as opposed to the Assegai which sweeps and swings around a lot. I have high respect for people racing Harimau online, because it really is the only craft that will even get pushed around by a feeble Assegai, but if you manage to get away from the pack with Harimau, it's very hard to catch up with.
I really wonder why Harimau isn't available right from the start of HD's campaign - it really would be of great use to beginners, even more so than Feisar IMHO...

[blackwiggle]

I think because AG-Systems is available straight away,and that would be the most similar craft to Harimau.
It's only when you can pilot AG or Harimau cleanly around the tracks that the small differences become apparent.

[Sideshow]

The stats you see for Assegai and Harimau are:


Assegai Harimau
Speed 8 8
Thrust 8 7
Handling 9 9
Shield 7 7

So it does look like Harimau is just a crap Assegai. However, these are just the simple displayed stats on the team select screen. It's entirely possible (in fact likely) that these are truncated, and the real stats aren't integers. I'd guess that Harimau have larger fractional components. For example, the table of stats could actually be:


Assegai Harimau
Speed 8.3 8.7
Thrust 8.2 7.6
Handling 9.5 9.1
Shield 7.3 7.9

(I'm not saying that they are these exact figures; I have no idea if Assegai has better handling than Harimau - this is just to demonstrate the point)

Those would be mathematically balanced and still result in the same stats you see displayed in the game, assuming those are truncated. However, I doubt the ship stats were created that simplistically; the developers seem to have put a lot of effort into balancing the different teams so I'd imagine the stats were decided upon after copious playtesting, and having an exactly matching total isn't going to give an exactly matching overall performance.
The short version: while the stats you see seem imbalanced, I don't think they are, and anyway the stats are only an indication of overall performance, not the generator of it.

The only way to establish team tiering is to do it like beat'em-up players do; set up an exhaustive series of 1v1 races, pitting every team against every other team with the best pilots you can find, and record the results. Wipeout is more complicated because the track used will greatly affect the outcomes, so you'd really have to run tournaments over all courses instead of single races (or run 8(/16?) seperate comparisons to find out what ships are better on what tracks). It's an awful lot of effort to go to, especially given that there doesn't seem to be an overpowered or underpowered team; at least, I've never seen anything posted about abuse or disgust. I was expecting Icaras to be the go-to team, since on paper it's the most broken, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

[eLhabib]

I think there are actually a lot more stats to be considered, like - for example - a ships weight (which factors into collision behaviour). The handling itself can in no way be summarized in one single number stat. Harimau and Assegai, albeit displaying the same number on handling, have a totally different feel to them. Like I mentioned before, Harimau is very direct, even more so than AG-Systems, almost pinpoint handling, always follows the nose. Assegai, on the other hand, tends to swing out the rear a lot, and lends itself to drifting around wide, sweeping turns. Comparing the two is a bit like looking at a FWD car compared to a RWD car, actually.

[OBH]

I never understood the reason for that craft to exist. Why bother with it's weak stats?
Take a look a the phantom leader board.
This weaker stat ship is leading the way a good few times.

@elhabib
Wow, your opinion on Harimau is the total opposite to mine :)

First its handling - you reckon its more pinpoint than AG? I feel the total opposite. With AG its so accurate, you can stab at it to constantly correct yourself. With Harimau I have to try and fly super smoothly, never trying to have to correct myself, and try to use sideshifts instead of airbrakes where i can, cos the top end speed is where i need to be. A totally different drive to AG. I find it flies more like an understearing assegai, though I like that, i keep oversteering face first into walls with assegai :)

And for Harimau being good for SL. Surely not? Its fast but not that fast. I swear Ive pushed my harimau on anulpha pass reverse to the absolute limit and still cant beat those icarus times.

[eLhabib]

On straight tracks, both Assegai and Harimau are at a clear disadvantage compared to Icaras. But for really technical tracks, I think Harimau is very good for TT.
'Like an understeering Assegai' - that's a very good description, actually!

I always found Harimau more pinpoint than AG-Sys, but you have definitely more playtime with Harimau, so your description is more accurate for sure.

[crawdad62]

I've been using Harimau pretty much since I unlocked it (well past the 100K loyalty points) but lately I've just been getting banged around too much online. I'm using Feisar much more online and depending on the track I'll use Icaras.

[OBH]

Welcome to the club!
Stick with it though, dont see as many harimau pilots.

I just cant bring myself to give in and change allegiance :)

[darkfaerytales]

trendf as it seems i'm not the only who suspect from time that harimau feels a bit heavier and stable than assegai

sideshow made an interesting point, sure there should be other factors not in the stats , i'n not so sure about mass,at least in straight terms, i mean if you think that hit a triakis with a icaras it don't moves and icaras bounce away, this is not true, i've try it in 2 player and as it seems all ships reacts at the same way on collision from the same angles...but maybe in other situations a mass factor could enter in consideration...i'm pretty sure there a stability stats or a lateral stability , i've past many many days switching races between assegai and harimau, and some after i had feel the difference, i say after a while it's pretty noticeable

another point i want to know if someone has noticed the quirex unstability, it's pretty shocking...i've done the switching thing between quirex and mirage too ;pretty similar stats ships too, same speed and same handling on paper

[H3avyM3tal]

My point was not to rain down hate on Harimau, but was about trying to understand why it's there in the first place.

From my own experience with HD, I have piloted all crafts, some alot more than other, but what I came to realize is that the only thing that matters, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust). Speed has no sure effect (As a Faiser pilot can out run an Icaras pilot on 90% of the tracks, with exception AP). Shield, well, As above, it never seems to be the attribute that can make or break a race.

That leaves only Handling, and, well, that is also not a race maker/breaker. I came to realize that each craft handles differently not because of it's stats, but because of the way it feels (Lighter - Heavier). This is no GT or LFS, where every aspect of a car is important in it's own way.

Also, like Sideshow mentioned, those stat distributions can be correct (or atleast the way it works). I have seen both Harimau and Icaras on the phantom leader boards. Meaning handling is not a factor in the long run. And neither speed for that matter.

You play it as you feel it, and Harimau may feel good to some, but overall, it feels extremely light, and with no power (with Assagai is feels right for the look of the craft - no weight on front). Icaras for comparison feels like it has a very good center of gravity, and so are the rest of the high speed crafts.

So what makes Harimau a craft to use? It has crap stats, that in the end doesn't mean a thing as we can see on the leader boards or in races. It is only a skin to use, just like Piranha and Triakis. But why give it no real edge? It's like it doesn't have anything to stand out form the rest. Every other craft has, so why not this one?

[crawdad62]

But why give it no real edge? It's like it doesn't have anything to stand out form the rest. Every other craft has, so why not this one?

It doesn't have any one attribute that stands out but maybe that's it. It's balanced. Maybe more so than others that have one facet that either is maxed out or lacking.

I really like how it almost dances around the track. I love using it on Metropia. For me it's just "swoosh swoosh" around the track.

Honestly though you really can't argue any of the crafts legitimacy being included. What one person thinks is the ultimate is another's :turd :P

[OBH]

Sorry H3avyM3tal, your talking rubbish.

What makes ships stand out to you? Same as most Id imagine - ship shape, skin, stats, and feel of flying it.

I love the shape, reminds me of a fish, love the skins as all 3 are very different, the stats dont do the ship justice unfortunatley, but the flying style is a smooth gliding style -Unlike any other ship.

[Syntek]

Concept ship models n eed to make a comeback from pulse.

[H3avyM3tal]

Sorry H3avyM3tal, your talking rubbish.

What makes ships stand out to you? Same as most Id imagine - ship shape, skin, stats, and feel of flying it.

I love the shape, reminds me of a fish, love the skins as all 3 are very different, the stats dont do the ship justice unfortunatley, but the flying style is a smooth gliding style -Unlike any other ship.

Why rubbish? Because you don't agree or because nothing that I wrote has a stron base to be a fact - when you say that it is all subjective.

Well ofcourse it is. If we all agreed than it would be boring here. Why am I wrong exactly? That is how I look at the game, and that is why I made through the toughest bits in the game winning with a low handling ship (Icaras) while other players do it with high handling crafts.

It doesn't matter. It is just easier to get a perfect driving line with a high handling ship, but it is also possible with every other ship. I don't like the feel of the Harimau, but that is my opinion. It's not right or wrong.

It isn't very different from other ships - the feel is crucial here, but that is subjective. I don't think this craft is needed in the game. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means that I think it is pointless.

But like you mentioned, it is about the skin and feel alone in the end.

[OBH]

I know it doesnt matter who uses what. That was never brought into question.

I just found your comment "pointless" hilarious. Basically because it handles like an assegai with a heavier nose, it makes it a pointless inclusion? If it was identical id understand, but subtle changes make big differences, look at pirahna and triakis.

Plus if you believe the only stat a ship requires to win a race is just acceleration your heads in the clouds.

[darkfaerytales]

as heavymetal has mentioned i'm in accord with him about the diffence in importance about all the 4 stats known, of all 4 the least important is sure the top speed, why? i see why, what do you think how much difference there is practically, i mean practically, between feisar and icaras, with practically i mean ,you see a 10 in stats but what it would mean in km/h?
did you know this?
what do you think ,that there are 100 km/h of difference in top speed between the slower and the faster ship as in fusion era...nay:naughty absolutely not

why when you are pretty bored and you don not have anything better to do don't try yourself and do some testing?

i've already done, if you are interested just ask me, i will happy to tell you

but i'm not completely in accord when you say that the handling is simple how much heavier and lighter you feel the ship, the handling is a mix of how responsive and fast is to do manoeuvre, how much you feel the ship is because of this, react to comands and the steering radius...
you do not certain want to argue that the steering radius of a triakis is the same as the feisar one...
the difference is all that , that you can't do certain things with low handling ships, if you for exemple enter a turn wrong way you certain do not have much chances to adjust your line and avoid a further collision with a piranha or a triakis, i do not say that you do not have any i say that the chances became lower and lower, on the other hand higher handling ships like feisar , assegai tend to oversteering and be very unbalanced in some turns, too sensitives...

anyway haydn is right , it reminds too much a fish to me too heheheeh some tropical ,colored fish
about the harimau style we're all in accord!

[H3avyM3tal]

I know it doesnt matter who uses what. That was never brought into question.

I just found your comment "pointless" hilarious. Basically because it handles like an assegai with a heavier nose, it makes it a pointless inclusion? If it was identical id understand, but subtle changes make big differences, look at pirahna and triakis.

Plus if you believe the only stat a ship requires to win a race is just acceleration your heads in the clouds.

I never said that Thrust wins or loses a game, I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest. Also, You forget that there is a 5th stat which is the player himself. There is no real difference between Triakis and Piranha per say, the change is very subtle.

Also, this is not exactly a simultion of something that exists, it is much simpler, where the levels of importance in performance are really small, and the thing that will make or break a race is the player. Ships in this game are just a means for a player to excel at what he does.

I still think that Harimau is pointless, but feel free to think otherwise. Just don't take it personally...

[OBH]

nothing personal. :) just have trouble understanding. Not after an argument.
I still see it as labeling it pointless simply due to you not enjoying it, especially how you dont seem tot hink that either pirahna/triakis are a equally "pointless" craft.

variety is the spice of life.

[Darkdrium777]

Well we all drive the ship that we like the most, don't we? However I wouldn't go so far as saying that any of the ships are pointless, try them out long enough and you'll figure out that each of them is different.
However, with enough practise every ship can do the exact same thing.

[darkfaerytales]

why many people say " finaly harimau seems an ag-craft now " what was wrong with previous design?
as far i'm concerned i like very much the pure design, no i dig up more the pure design, the tail seem more elongated, wide and marked, the aerodynamic profile is better than in hd, in hd harimau is quite " fatty " from profile view and the tail seems too small and lower

[Lance]

"..the only thing that matters, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust)."

".. I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest."

I don't see these two statements as being congruent with each other.

[eLhabib]

You know what? I'm actually really happy that the differences between all the ships in HD are so subtle that every ship can kick ass on the record tables. This way, everyone gets to fly their favorite craft and can still be competitive! Sure, it would be nice to have a beast like the 2097 Qirex, that is really tough to control but insanely fast when mastered. But then, nobody could be in the records with other ships. I prefer it as it stands now.

One could argue that it makes the whole idea of having different ships at all pointless, but as was said before: variety is the spice of AG-racing.

And to the OP: be aware that in a game like wipEout, where most of the people who are truly dedicated to it mostly stick to a team and wouldn't even change their allegiance even if their ship was inferior, it's not exactly a good idea to create a thread with a title along the lines of 'hey, isn't team so-and-so completely pointless?' - it's bound to create some very biased responses.

There is no pointless. The more, the merrier :)

[H3avyM3tal]

"..the only thing that matters, out of the 4 attributes a craft had, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust)."

".. I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest."

I don't see these two statements as being congruent with each other.

Better now? I am sorry that I wasn't clear enough, but this is what I ment. And as long as I don't say specifically what I meant, please take my word for what I mean. In this case, I wasn't specific, and I'm sorry for that, will try to avoid it in the future.

What I ment was - the attribute that stands out atop the rest is Thrust, because it is a visible thing and one that is not affected by the player.
The difference between thrust and handling is that a player can take a handling of 60-70 and make it into a 90-100.

Otherwise, it is all about the skin and shape (and feel). However, I don't like having a craft that doesn't stand out as much as I didn't get the point with GT having 700 cars when 500 of them never being used even though some of them look really good.

[Sideshow]

What I ment was - the attribute that stands out atop the rest is Thrust, because it is a visible thing and one that is not affected by the player.
The difference between thrust and handling is that a player can take a handling of 60-70 and make it into a 90-100.

I would have said this was speed - like you say, the player's skill can compensate for poor handling, but if both players race perfectly then top speed will determine who wins.

Though, thinking about it, I guess it depends on the track. On tracks where you spend a lot of time at top speed (like moa therma) then speed will be the governing statistic, while on twisty, more technical tracks (like sebenco climb), where you spend more time coming out of air-brake corners than you do flat out, thrust will be dominant. I guess it's also possible that on the even more intense tracks (sol 2 reverse), handling could become more important... hmmmm.
I think I'm gonna sit with the opinion that the game is fairly even team-wise, and not listen to any cries of imba from sore losers (not that I've heard any such thing here).


You know what? I'm actually really happy that the differences between all the ships in HD are so subtle that every ship can kick ass on the record tables. This way, everyone gets to fly their favorite craft and can still be competitive!

Couldn't agree more.

[lunar]

For me there are some reasons to say "yes" to the original question if we are asking about ships for multiplayer. Harimau`s weak thrust makes it open to more trouble on lap 1 online, I think. The other "light" ships have better acceleration which can help them get away from the lap 1 scramble. Harimau doesn`t have another "unique selling point" in performance to compensate for this, maybe, but if it feels good to someone it`s totally good enough to win races. It`s no way underpowered and uncompetitive like some Pure ships were. That`s only the reasons I haven`t considered it and maybe I`m missing out. And it looks beautiful in yellow.

I think the top speed stat of a ship is a bigger factor in HD than Pure or Pulse. If you set a ghost on Moa Therma with a speed 7 ship, then bring out one of the big speedsters to race it, you can actually see the speed difference between the ships much more clearly than you could in similar situations in Pure and Pulse, I think.

[eLhabib]

I found the speed differences between ships much larger in Pure than in HD. But then maybe I don't remember so well... ;)

[Lance]

.
Don't modify quotes whilst leaving them in quote format so that they say something not in the post of the person you're quoting, even if that post contains a quote of your own words. For example, my quote of a post by H3avyM3tal did not contain the words he shows in bold in his "quotation" of my post. It is no longer a quote and should not be shown as such. The use of bolding in quoting someone's else's post should only be used to highlight the words that are actually there in the quoted post, the ones you want to particularly discuss. In any argumentations, it should be clear as to what was said by whom.

We probably ought to add this to the guidelines. But more clearly phrased than I've done it here. :D
.

[H3avyM3tal]

That was my intention in bolding, but I understand. I am not the best one at explaining oneself, and it takes me a couple of posts to get the messege through.

[darkfaerytales]

i was thinking upon mdhay comment about the harimau molded in play-doh , in truth the ship has something childish and toy-looking, not to make any offense, the design is gorgeous but it was a thing who was in my mind from some time

[OBH]

Yeah i know :) Like a child designed it. Thats cos Harimau race, and save the world at the same time. Were nice guys 8)

The Pure model wasnt the best, but personally i think the HD model is slick, and the 3rd ship skin is awesome. For ages I thought the 2nd yellow skin was the best... but nah :)

[crawdad62]

For ages I thought the 2nd yellow skin was the best... but nah :)

Now them's fight'n words. The "Aqua Lung" is definitely the best.:+

[RJ O'Connell]

(Waiting for Supersocks to deliver a toy advert featuring Harimau) :g

I'm willing to try out the Harimau. And all the other ships I missed in Pulse.

[TheFrostE]

harimau is a blast to fly. was my weapon of choice for Pure, and had the chance to try it in Pulse when asayyeah generously got me the euro pack to put on my psp at the US convention :+

PS- My loyalty stays with Feisar always and forever...Who needs earth preservation any ways ;)

[OBH]

Ill be honest there are days when i test other crafts to see if i fancy a change.

Its just amazing how much speed a Harimau can lose if your lines arent perfect, and your flyings not super slick.

Sideshifting through corners where possible is even more of a bonus than normal when using Harimau. Their low thrust can sometimes take sooooooooo long to pull your ship up to top speed after airbraking hard.

I find in many non wepon races if i take a corner wide, old wellington is his feisar is flying through, though on fast high speed corner tracks like vineta k reverse where you can repeatidly sideshift over airbraking, even a high flying Icarus hitting perfect lap after lap will find it hard to pass if you get it right.

In my humble opinion, the Harimau now is like a slightly lesser version of the Van-Uber ship I loved in fusion. Despite it clearly not being the best in the series, that ship had be glued to it. Awesome hadling, almost top speed, and bugger all shields..... who needed shields when you cant get caught :)

I know your shields already rubbish but go on boys! :) drop it another little bit to make room for just a little bit more thrust! :D

[darkfaerytales]

umm maybe for xmas i can get a psp so finally i will can use harimau and others ships expecially van uber in pure, then i will get pulse also

actually 3 days ago i've purchased a pure copy in a shoping center before a nice evening outside with my friends for 7,90 eu, the DLC packs i've download already on my pc, so half step is done...now i need a psp

[klax75]

harimau is a blast to fly. was my weapon of choice for Pure, and had the chance to try it in Pulse when asayyeah generously got me the euro pack to put on my psp at the US convention :+

You have US Pulse and the Packs... <cry, sniffle, cry>

[ElectroBolt]

I think the difference between Assegai and Harimau's stats is compensated by Harimau's much smaller bulk, which I think represents quite an advantage in itself.

Of course, a smaller bulk means less weight, supposedly putting you in a significantly less favorable situation in case collision with another craft occurs...

This may change the outcome of a race every now and then, but I really don't think it changes anything in the long run. Whatever the craft you like to pilot is, I believe it is in your best interest to avoid collisions as much as possible, and this is when a smaller ship with very good handling has the advantage.

:nod Fly Harimau, save the world. :nod

[darkfaerytales]

harimau smaller bulk than assegai???:eek are you drunk?

practically assegai is a leaf! the twin hulls are two long leaves until the cockpit and they aren't even attached from the front but from the sides and if you take a look in between you can see the empty space...it give me a feel of frailty umm brrr, have you try to rotate the ships in the teams menu and take a look friend, a deep look...have you noticed that assegai practically have two long hulls thick like a paper and under there is nothing, till the cockpit/engine then there are the two airbrakes which are thin as well and attached to the base

the only conpact part is all the stuff just around the cockpit...how you can state that harimau is less bulkier, harimau is full like a sandwich in comparison, harimau have a sort of underbelly just below the chassis...maybe assegai is wider ,yes it is, but not bulkier c'mon!

[ElectroBolt]

Hi darkfaerytales, first of all let me tell you how much I appreciated the way you expressed your disagreement. However, please note that I hardly ever get drunk before 5pm on Fridays.

Considering that english is not my mother tongue, I may have failed to formulate my opinion appropriately:

Even though I still think that Harimau looks lighter than Assegai, I was rather trying to emphasize on the fact that Harimau is just shorter and narrower than Assegai.

[darkfaerytales]

ok friend in this case:+

:beer can i offer to you a beer or better a red bull for the 6 pm then?:g

p.s. don't worry english isn't my mother tongue too:sonar

[Axel]

I have to agree with Darkfairy. Assagai is light as hell and not al bulky as Harimau. It's annoying really cause Assagai and Harimau should be a tad bit faster, well definately faster than Ag systems.

[ElectroBolt]

can i offer to you a beer or better a red bull for the 6 pm then?:g

Anytime, friend

[Lightlord]

Harimau's handling feels more precise than Assegai's allowing for it to take the lines sharper than its rival

[yeldar2097]

the haribo ship tastes sweet, looks sweeter and drives the sweetest.
it's not all in the stats...

[MR-RICO84]

The old harrie is the most direct responsive ship on the menu! If you do not have the nerve to test your skills with it (yeah that's right it is unforgiving) Do not request its dismissal! Only believe that true understanding will dock with your brain at some point!:banzai
We are the motion in cockpit view league and we are coming for all your times! Yes that is right, a revolution is occurring. I have been playing on line for 5 days and have just posted my first sub 500 time, subtotal already has many top 50 times. Try motion. Go on, just try it, yes thats right it feels good yes? seductive? You did badly but you know you can do better! Mwahahahahaha!:bat

[Psychotic_Fluids]

Actually, Harimau is my favourite ship!

[crawdad62]

Atta' boy!

[darkfaerytales]

the haribo ship tastes sweet, looks sweeter and drives the sweetest.


hahahaahah i think i was the only one who feel the urge to try to bite it lookin at it displayed in the selection menu

[lunar]

To answer the original question, Harimau, I think, cannot be the weakest ship in the game because Triakis is much weaker and just desperately slow. I`ve been hoping to get 100k in all ships, but really attempting this in Triakis is making me lose the will to live. Respect to all who can get any speed out of this bathtub. :banzai Wipeout HD really needs an eliminator mode add on because Triakis really needs a raison d`etre ;) My apologies to all fans of the big grey shark, but it`s not what it used to be in 2197 :)

[Motorsagmannen]

yes massive respect to all who can manouver the "military barrack", "army tub" "the camo spraggled iron-bulk" :P
i salute you all cause you surely are better pilots than me.
and as a response to this thread, i love the harimau especially in the blue and orange ( i seem to be the only one who dont adore the yellow for some reason. but still harimau is the only ship where all skins are unique.) and it handles SO wonderfully.
i am proud to say that the multi coloured greenpeace craft is one of my absolute favourites.

[RJ O'Connell]

Okay, I used Harimau to finish my campaign on the Meltdown grid. I used to really think this team was a joke. Now they're in my top 5 right now. My friend Justin was playing HD for the first time last night and he would not use anything but Harimau once he used it the first time.

They've come a long way from Pure.

[Horror]

When I first tried Wipeout HD Harimau was the only ship I could really learn to control, especially when I finally switched it to Phantom (flash is for weaklings)

After racing with Harimau I got used to it on phantom speed, but why do people keep saying the ship is so terrible? I find it much easier to turn with them as a noob to wipeout.

[Darkdrium777]

They've come a long way from Pure.Indeed. Back then Harimau really was the weakest ship all around! :blarg

Slow acceleration, medium handling, top speed and shield. With the acceleration glitch of Triakis this slow acceleration was really putting Harimau at a more considerable disadvantage than any other ship IMO, as it was not able to catch up quickly, and was not able to go very fast...

Now Harimau, while still feeling rather medium, is overall much better. The glitch that was removed helps too. :)
Being a yellow/black Goteki skin user I have certain "compassion" for Harimau pilots donning the same colours ;)

[Lance]

~~(flash is for weaklings)~~

Try to set a world record time in Flash [or any other class, fast or slow], and you'll see that you have to be a strongling to do it.

[TarotCardKiller]

I <3 Harimau

http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=45&pictureid=1541

[Motorsagmannen]

TCK... awesome :D
:clap

[Koleax]

Goodness, I completed Elite Campaign Legend with Harimau and felt it was the easiest, so much that I worried that everyone was just going to use Harimau online and it would be boring, and that people would complain when I entered a race, "oh look, another Harimau user." Much of me still thinks this is the reason most people don't race with Harimau online.

[yeldar2097]

Kind of the case with the new harimau - bit of a cliché nowadays

Oldimau looks the sexiest and drives the sexiest, nuff said.

[Amorbis]

Fury-mau is perhaps the best ship for manoeuvrability and speed, if that's what you want. It is a shame that it has succumbed to overuse. Maybe not overuse, but certainly misuse. Although it is excellent for speed laps and time trial, if a track isn't suited to Icaras it is probably suited to Harimau. Beats AG-SYS any day. :)

[Aeroracer]

what i think about the ships...my opinion only...dont take as fact, so dont take offence...:)

harimau ...is good ship allround..handling is good,fast starter,

ags... is unstable and bumpy but quick on the start.

icarus ...is average but loses out on the slow conering and dosnt seem any faster than the other ships.very rarely wins from what i have seen unless in the hands of an expert.

assegai..really good ship alround.

fiesar..fiddly to control if your not used to it but is so good at handling.beware of good fiesar players they own on corners.

gotecki....super fast thrust, but only a ship for experts like varti and hellfire...too tricky for me to use.

never used any others so i havnt got an oppinion

[yeldar2097]

Definately overuse, it's all over the place (guilty overuser and abuser :( ).

If you don't have the skill/patience to do it in a Icaras; use the mau :lol

[Aeroracer]

harimua isnt overused as icaras.when you look at all speed classes..

triakis and auricom and qirex are rarely used for some reason..mirage is quite rare too and ags is becoming a bit scarce.

[IH8YOU]

Triakis Qirex and Auricom are used plenty by me! :D :+

[MetaKraken]

In my opinion, the Icaras is the weakest ship and that Plasma (a weapon) can easily destroy the Icaras in two hits. Harimau is slightly stronger and that it has very good handling and can survive any weapons that is inflicted against Harimau, except for Plasma.

[Koleax]

AG-S is more tempting to me with every Phantom race. First it was just the feeling of being in first place until the first turn, then the feeling of being in first place until after the first turn, then being in first place for the whole first lap.

Of course after your speed tops out, the feeling that you're a sitting duck for cannon ammunition sets in.

[jan709]

I used to be an ag-sys fan, but recently i fell for harimau. I have been pulverizing my PB's since :D.

As for being pushed around, i never win i somehow always get pushed aside regardless of the used craft

[leungbok]

Fury-mau is perhaps the best ship for manoeuvrability and speed, if that's what you want. It is a shame that it has succumbed to overuse. Maybe not overuse, but certainly misuse. Although it is excellent for speed laps and time trial, if a track isn't suited to Icaras it is probably suited to Harimau. Beats AG-SYS any day. :)

True, fury ship's enhancements forgot ag-system :?
Fury harimau, is now the best overall ship IMO ! :+

[Kyonshi]

I dont think Harimau is the weakest. Far from it actually.

I discussed the issue of Harimau against Assegai in a post on Gamefaqs months ago. I stated that Harimau isn't really inferior to Assegai because i had the feeling that Harimau feels lighter and take cornering by banking all its mass on one side in a perfectly balanced way, opposite to Assegai which i feel the tail slides sidewards to reorient the ship inside the curve, giving a feeling of heaviness and because the way the airbrakes act and are engineered.

Multiple replies to my statement were in accordance with my point of view. Harimau isn't really in the shadow of Assegai because of its "inferior" stats. It seems there's definitely a difference of mass and velocity between the 2 ships, as well as different behavior in navigation.

Harimau is just perfectly balanced in its conception. That's why i use it. I can't pilot Assegai adequately because of the way it behaves.

[il_mago_di_Doz]

I really do agree with you!!!
Expecially when you say that: "...Assegai which i feel the tail slides sidewards to reorient the ship inside the curve..."
I was an Assegai user in the beginning, but that style of cornering was so slow... Maybe that's because I couldn't drive an assegai, but surely with AG, goteki or harimau I was WAY much faster!!!
So I became an AG driver.... until they released that thing.... the AG-fury. :mad:

[OBH]

Fury harimau, is now the best overall ship IMO ! :+

couldnt agree more. great alrounder. only need to glance at the leaderboards to see the number of top harimau fury times.

[Aeroracer]

fiesar is becoming more popular online since problem solver has been doing multiplayer..im seeing lots of wannabes trying to play like him but they may need to practice a little first:nod

[leungbok]

Wellington already prooved that feisar was a powerfull ship, with awesome TT/SL records. But multiplayer races aren't an indiscuted proof that a ship is great or not, too much random ! ;)

[tug_14]

feisar allow little mistakes that other ship didn't

[yeldar2097]

Wellington didn't make mistakes :robot

...never ever

[ProblemSolver]

@jasmin-jade: Thx for the flowers. Well yes, I can be pretty fast using
FEISAR. If I were able to manage the last BR on TJ Rev. it would be enough
for rank 1. Unfortunately, I cannot pull hard BR constantly. Anyways, I've
beaten the best players on TJ Rev. and TDR (tracks I really know about)
multiple times using FEISAR -- but likewise got beaten multiple times on
other tracks.

FEISAR can be pretty fast and Wellington showed this long ago, right.

After some month playing with FEISAR, I have to say the following; no matter
how good one knows the track and its FEISAR, one won't stand a chance
against an, for example, AG-SYS pilot who also knows the track and the craft
to its fullest. FEISARs weakest spots are its lack of thrust and corner exit
speed, which aren't compensated by its high agility -- which by itself isn't
any big advantage to say at least. The lack of thrust really shows its
disadvantage esp. at the start of a race and while being hit by a bomb or
whatever. Speaking about the FEISAR+; despite this craft has slightly more
thrust it loses too much velocity while cornering. Too bad. FEISAR > FEISAR+,
almost always.

Recently I switch over to AG-SYS. Its thrust advantage is breathtaking, esp.
at start. And I've found out that one can mimic FEISARs handling (if necessary)
by lifting the throttle for just a very brief moment at hard turns. Since I know
the FEISAR quite well, I'm now going to max out AG-SYS to see if I can't get
a lot faster in the end. ;)

[il_mago_di_Doz]

Problem Solver did you switch to Ag-Sys or to Ag-Sys+?

[Vartazian]

AG SYS+ is Garbage compared to the AG SYS HD.

I found that FEISAR+ Handles more like AGSYS HD and is a tad bit faster.

[Koleax]

I saw PS in the old school AG-S tonight. Hard to tell if he improved much from Feisar, since he's so good anyway, and since it wasn't in an 8-player race, where being behind at the start can create the most severe problems.

Lots of AG-S+ players on the Phantom podiums these past few days. Tonight and last night, almost all the races I've been in had first, second, and third place using some form of AG-S, and I was usually in third with AG-S+. The handling is not as good, but that 95 thrust works very well for me in Eliminators and, whether I like it or not, it's the craft I'm most comfortable with right now.

EG-X on Zone Battle, though, is working out quite nicely for me.

[leungbok]

If I were able to manage the last BR on TJ Rev. it would be enough
for rank 1. Unfortunately, I cannot pull hard BR constantly.
:eek Probably, but you must improve first your time without that last BR. I managed a 21.62 with only one BR and multiple laps at 21.6X before i finally succeeded in that BR to improve at 21.54. Yes the last BR can help to a rank 1 but you must also be on a 21.6X potentially lap ! You definitely must try fury icaras for that track ;) !

[phaeton_pl]

One day i switched from HD Icaras to Harimau+ and improved most of my records (venom ones too which is a total overuse:P ). When Fury came out i hated new Icaras really, i couldn't pull a good lap with it but now thing are getting better.

Actually i'm working on Sol2 Phantom speed lap. I tried many ships but my new PB 18.66 i got with Fury AG-SYS (chasing Wotan's 18.77 HD AG-SYS ghost). This ship goes well on this track, i feel it have a higher speed in corners compared to Fury's Harimau and Feisar. Last night i used Fury Icaras and i got 18.xx couple of times. Its damn fast on the first half of the track but then all advantage is lost. I will give it a try tonight and i hope 18.50 will be beaten :) Will try to make a vid also :)

[ProblemSolver]

AG SYS+ is Garbage compared to the AG SYS HD.
This.

Likewise with FEISAR vs. FEISAR+. I would really love to ride FEISAR+, but....


I saw PS in the old school AG-S tonight. Hard to tell if he improved much from Feisar, since he's so good anyway, and since it wasn't in an 8-player race, where being behind at the start can create the most severe problems.
After some hours using AG-SYS, I can say I will improve a lot. Unfortunately,
AG-SYS's thrust advantage kills FEISAR altogether. If you know how to take a
turn, then the thrust will make all of the difference. FEISARs agility isn't of
any help / advantage here.

@leungbok: Yeah I think I can do a 21.6x (even with FEISAR, atm 21:77). I tried
Icaras+ but I don't like it. I tried Harimau+, very nice! Got to 21:76 without
much effort and still have room for improvements. I also think that the last BR
will only cut off the time by about two tenth of a second. Hence, doing a 21:6x
should be a prerequisite -- like you said.

[OBH]

Wellington didn't make mistakes :robot

...never ever

Thats cos the man was a machine. :pc

I suck as feisar, no matter how much i try.

[yeldar2097]

a bit like wotan...I've only ever seen him make one mistake...ever!
he eliminated himself at the chenghou hairpin

[OBH]

I can beat wotan!! :g
...sometimes xD

Though havnt raced him in a long, long time.

[Connavar]

ProblemSolver, you said you've beaten the best players on some fury tracks,
but I think some of them don't really master those tracks. At least next time we
play, try to choose HD tracks, I haven't had time to practice on the Fury ones
yet for instance. About FEISAR/AG-SYS, there isn't so much difference, just
watch the TT or SL you can accomplish with both ships, I don't think it will
really matter in a race.

[Vartazian]

@Connavar. PS has gotten pretty good at racing the fury tracks Ill give him that. Ive noticed his best is TJR (Which also happens to be my weakest) also it seems hes been practicing modesto. He managed to beat me on Reverse by .06 seconds but he still has to beat me on forward ;) And I definatley know the fury tracks.

[OBH]

I still suck balls at fury tracks besides TJ. Modesto & Amphesium, both forwards and backwards, are just a nightmare for me.

Thinking about it im not that great at tech de ra either :g really need to get practicing at some point.

[Asayyeah]

If my sister ever had balls it could be my brother.

[OBH]

funniest line ever!!!! :g:+

[ProblemSolver]

...
ProblemSolver, you said you've beaten the best players on some fury tracks,
but I think some of them don't really master those tracks. ...
I know what you wanna say, but I don't mean it that way -- would be too easy.
It's not that some of the best players lack practise on the Fury tracks. And I
honestly don't play these tracks more than any other top10 player here. And as
Vartazian said, some players know the Fury tracks quite well.



... At least next time we play, try to choose HD tracks, I haven't had time to
practice on the Fury ones yet for instance. About FEISAR/AG-SYS, there isn't so
much difference, just watch the TT or SL you can accomplish with both ships, I
don't think it will really matter in a race.
Hey Connavar, we played together one time. ;) I choose any track while hosting.
About FEISAR and AG-SYS. There isn't much of a difference, but still, the thrust
advantage of AG-SYS against FEISAR matters, esp. in a race.

[JFthebestJan]

harimau HD is my actual No.1! off topic: its cockpit looks like the "y-wing"-cockpit from the original STAR WARS movies. 2nd place 4 me goes to feisar HD, cause it looks like the original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA starfighter. yesterday i watched BLADERUNNER (again), it seems to me the flying police-car influenced the design of mirage HD. btt: i dont think harimau HD is the weakest ship. in the beginning of my wipEout HD "career" 4 me it was the 1 & only choice to beat the elite-AI on phantom class. :)

[ProblemSolver]

:eek Probably, but you must improve first your time
without that last BR. I managed a 21.62 with only one BR and multiple laps at
21.6X before i finally succeeded in that BR to improve at 21.54. Yes the last BR
can help to a rank 1 but you must also be on a 21.6X potentially lap ! You
definitely must try fury icaras for that track ;) !
Hey I got my first non-ZONE rank 1 on TJ Reverse, Phantom, TT : 1.52.89
using Harimau+. :+

I took a week off from trying to set any new records to rethink the way of
how I'm controlling the craft on phantom-racing. Problem is, I'm rather used
to control the ZONE craft in a very dynamic fashion because everything is
ever changing in ZONE, whereas on phantom-racing everything is static. On
phantom-racing there is no need to stabilize the craft for example. A fixed input
sequence is enough, the same steering pattern will be applyed on each lap.
I just needed to find a way on how I could incorperate this into my way of
steering. After some experimentation it seems like that I've found what I
was looking for. I somehow started anew, like someone who had never played
any WipEout before, to tricker my mind in adopting something new -- which
isn't easy to say at least. Well, today I decided to give it a go on a track
I really know about; Talon's Junction Reverse. After an hour I was quite
pleased having set the new TT record over there, and this run wasn't even a
good one from my side, I missed a lot of pads. So the record is quite beatable
esp. when performing BRs before start/finish, like you did on SL, leungbok.
However, I'm getting better on BRs as well.

Lets see if I can now pull a 21.6x on TJ (R). :nod

[Connavar]

ProblemSolver: I know you could choose the track of course, but we did only
1 race lol!! It's just that I was curious to see how good you were, without being
10 seconds behind :)

[SonicChaos]

I personally use the craft all the time (Fury Version). It's light and can speed up fairly quickly. The HD version isn't as terrible in my opinion. Try the craft first, don't base on stats.

[azteka]

Is Harimau really that bad?
Should i consider changing the team? With what?

[ThoughtfulSystem_95]

I kinda like Harimau, really. They are my 3rd favorite team. Even thought I got eliminated twice with them. But I got careless both those times. The stats suggests that they have the second weakest shielding in the game. But stats isn't everything. ;)

[Cipher]

Eeeeeeuuuuuhhhmmmm, it's not, not if i have anything to say about it :p
http://wipeoutrankings.com/index.php?x=1&p=Apple-Guy-Cipher&m=6&t=0&c=0&f=1&s=-1&o=

Cipher

[mannjon]

Dittos. Harimau is the BEST for Phantom, and probably Rapier too. It is all about how you race, but I contend that Harimau is the BEST in the hands of a master pilot. Everyone flies Icaras, but few master it. The true benefits of the Harimau lie with a skilled pilot. You can't go off stats alone, but if you did I'd argue that with the second best speed below Icaras and Piranha and waaay better handling, it excels. Icaras is the best in my opinion for Venom Flash, and possibly Rapier.

It really depends on the speed class. That extra handling is significant in Phantom class. Thrust is irrelevant, and top speed really only matters on straights. FEISAR is too slow, Icaras handles too poorly.

[Cipher]

I kind of disagree with that lol, Icaras is OP and everyone knows it :P
That doesn't mean you'll fly good with it, it still depends on the pilot, but i break most my Harimau records with Icaras rather easily (alt account), but i just don't like seeing everyone hopping in an Ica assuming they'll do much better, i love seeing variation in the lobbies, instead of all Icas, but that's not the reason why i fly Harimau, simply put, Harimau is ****ing sexxxyyyyyy :-D, i simply fly what i enjoy flying, and usually that's based on design of the ship :P

Cipher

[AGgamer]

Harimau-HD is under-powered for sure, it has the same stats as Assegai-HD but with less thrust. But Harimau-Fury is either the no. 2 or no.1 best ship in the game, (and one of the most used) i don't think anyone can really argue against that. If you want under-powered craft look at ships with high shields, triakis, auricom, qirex... they are just out classed.

But if you want my opinion, i think EG-X is the actual worst (especially if you compare it's fury to the other furys), it has NO stats. Don't believe me? compare it to Goteki 45, Assegai, and AG-systems. They just have better stats than it. EG-X's only saving grace is its 85-90 speed-thrust combo that just barely keeps it from being completely pointless.

[Cipher]

There's a lot of hidden stats as well though, look at icaras's booty shake for example ;)

I really like Harimau HD as well (also because it's super sexy) it flies real smooth ^^
There's a very old thread on here somewhere where one of the devs listed most of the hidden stats, but i can't remember them from the top of my hat :p

Cipher

[AGgamer]

Oh yeah, i heard Hellfire talking about the hidden stats. what are they exactly? Is there anyone who has documented a chart or something?

[mannjon]

I kind of disagree with that lol, Icaras is OP and everyone knows it :P
That doesn't mean you'll fly good with it, it still depends on the pilot, but i break most my Harimau records with Icaras rather easily (alt account), but i just don't like seeing everyone hopping in an Ica assuming they'll do much better, i love seeing variation in the lobbies, instead of all Icas, but that's not the reason why i fly Harimau, simply put, Harimau is ****ing sexxxyyyyyy :-D, i simply fly what i enjoy flying, and usually that's based on design of the ship :P

Cipher

Well it is OP and yet it isn't. It is a risk vs reward craft. Icaras is almost perfectly optimized for frequent barrel rollers (like myself!) but how one deals with the low shield strength is really where the extra skill is needed. For speed laps and TT's, yes; Icaras is a bit OP. But that is different that a race setting.

You are correct Cipher when you say that people assume that they'll fly better with Icaras. I like to think that I've mastered the Icaras personally, and when I see a bunch of Icaras ships in a lobby, I know that a lot of pilots are just using it because of the handling stats and the speed stats without truly knowing the full potential. The HD version rolls slightly faster and is easier to get certain rolls than the Fury counterpart. It also is a stiffer ride making ideal lines a little easier which is the hidden stats for the Icaras. The same is true for Piranha. The HD rolls much faster, and gets more air because it is lighter.

But DAMN if the Harimau Fury isn't the sexiest ship to fly. No question there. The only other ship that I personally find almost as sexy is the HD Piranha.

Once again, it is really the pilot skill that is the most important aspect of it. I have no need for weapons, and I absorb everything to roll instead. Which is in my opinion, the way to master the Icaras. It seems like the perfect Green Racing ship. I either win or get destroyered in Flash and Venom.

[terra-wrists]

The only other ship that I personally find almost as sexy is the HD Piranha.

Only I'm allowed to call my freaky fish sexy :D

[AGgamer]

Well, i went and did a comparison of the visible stats. I compared the lowest ships in each stat to the highest in each stat. should i post my findings here or is that too off topic?

[terra-wrists]

Here: http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?9649-Hidden-Ship-Stats-Revisited&highlight=hidden+stats ;)

[AGgamer]

Ah. So these are the hidden stats then. it's unfortunate that we may never know the exact specs on all the race craft though.

[xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix]

In a wep off race though, the best ship is imo ag fury due to its thrust.
Since overtaking is a complex thing against good players, you have the best options to win a race when u r in front. With ag fury you keep your start position or you can even overtake some icaras and hatimau.

Edit: The sexiest ship is icaras hd silver skin close view <33
And the best roller is auricom - i take him in red colour sometimes, when i dont feel pressure because of other player.
It is a really tough ship. :D

[mannjon]

Don't think of it as a hidden stat, but rather a difference in overall handling through out the various situations you encounter. The ship stats are a good clue to follow to discover a ship's hidden potential.

I never got around to finishing my analysis of each ship, but I can provide another example. If you read any of the background about the teams, you'll find that Icaras and Piranha each boast that they have the fastest ship. On paper, each has a maximum speed at 100%. What they don't tell you is that the Piranha will get slightly more distance from a turbo (meaning if you use a turbo on a straight, it will last a split second longer). That being said, when you use a turbo on a straight in an Icaras, there is slightly less of a delay from when the turbo is used than with the Piranha (meaning that the Icaras will boost slightly quicker at the start).

Likewise, the same can be said for just standard acceleration to a maximum speed. Icaras will get to the max speed faster, but the Piranha will stay there slightly longer if you were to let off the acceleration.

Now with the Hairmau, it gets the benefit of handling very responsibly, but has enough weight to it to be able to maintain lines. Compared to the Assegai, the Harimau handles on paper about the same. However, once the Assegai is in mid-air, it is much harder to control and it feels a little loose. The Harimau's weight and back weighted chassis makes it slightly less easy to initially turn, but holds a line much better.

This makes Harimau an ideal choice on Phantom because even though the Assegai handles more responsively initially, it is much easier to go off your racing line. FEISAR is unique in that many people refer to it as a "sticky" ship (meaning it has excellent initial responsiveness to handling, but will pop back on to your racing line much easier than both the Assegai and the Harimau). Of course the downside to the FEISAR has always been top speed. Once again though, in Phantom, it is not as big of a deal. The FEISAR also handles well enough that you don't have to brake as much and a lot of chicanes can be handled without braking or sideshifting where the Assegai and Harimau will need a slight tap on the airbrake.

[BardicSMG]

http://i58.tinypic.com/14mqluu.jpg

[terra-wrists]

I dont agree with any of the above - Harimau is a good ship, a good all rounder.

You clearly don'y have a clue Mr Bardic :D

[BardicSMG]

You misspelled "Nothing with the above post is incorrect". Just thought I'd let you know.

[terra-wrists]

You're seeing things, do you wear glasses? Put 'em on chappie :D

[BardicSMG]

Don't you insult me with words I don't know!

[terra-wrists]

chappie is like saying "mate" or "friend" or "buddy"... its not offensive :)

[mannjon]

Auricom rolls like a jagged rock.