Speed Lap and TT session experiences

[eLhabib]

I figured since Speed Lap and TT are pretty much solitary events, I'd start a thread where everyone can share his experiences, discuss new lines (or BR spots, blech) found, or just interesting things and events that happened to him/her while honing skills on an otherwise abandoned racetrack.

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Since I got a day off work today, I decided to sleep in and then take an extended SL session on one of my old favorites, Chenghou. The world record time was only .23 seconds ahead of mine, so I figured I'd go and take Chenghou back. Well, what can I say - all I managed, after nearly 150 laps, was an improvement of .06 seconds (23.41 to 23.35, top time is Arnaud with 23.18 ). It's really frustrating when you actually see over half a second lying right there on the track, and you just can't pick it up. Chenghou has so many technical sections, I just couldn't get one single lap nailing all of them in sequence. I even changed from 3rd person close view (my usual choice) to nosecam for a couple of laps, just to see if that improves anything. It did, funnily make me faster in tight chicanes and fast combinations (like the one right before the finish straight), but it made drifting long, sweeping turns with the Assegai, like I usually do, almost impossible for me - I guess I'll stick with 3rd person close.
Anyway, I absolutely love Chenghou for Speed Laps, maybe because it's one of the tracks that only allows BRs at the obvious spots (jumps), maybe because I just love the urban setting. This fight is not over - one day I'll stick that perfect run, and my predicted record time will be under 23.00! :twisted

[leungbok]

Wow, under 20.00 would be an amazing time, mate ! Because the actual Asa's record is : 0.23.18;)
As you i'll give a try on chengou's record (but reverse version for me).

[kanar]

I'm experiencing the same thing Elhabib, Leungbok... As I've finished the elite campaign, I'm now trying to learn how the Piranha works -mission: impossible-. I'll catch the other trophies later. As usual, I'm... at work right now f--k. Can't continue my SL struggle on vineta k, started 2 days ago (18.79). I have now a good 80% chance to launch the 2 "regular" BRs each lap, & able to control my racing line with some double-taps (@t mad-ice: I think some double tapping is really needed if you ride a Piranha) but I'm still unstable for the third one right after the tunnel (turbo+BR+floaty fish=flying into the crowd sometimes). I'm sure I can reach 18.40 or less, with some pitch control maybe (I still don't find the good setting: no pitch at all? d-pad pitch, because I play with d-pad, or sixaxis only? Finally, I find HD really difficult I mean, maybe more than pulse. Chenghou will be my new struggle next week. This track is really great you're right guys!

Great topic by the way, I think it's better to share piloting tips than keeping secrets. The "theoric" level playing field will always be fair enough between zone members = more fun! maybe we could merge the metropia phantom speed lap thread here, as alterego tried to sum up things a little!

[eLhabib]

@leungbok: I of course meant 23.00 - not 20.00 - I just remembered the times wrong.

@kanar: respect for flying Piranha, it's just too harsh for me on the technical tracks. It looks, sounds and feels amazing, though! :rock

[Lance]

Or I could start an 'official' tips thread for HD as I did for some other WO versions.

[eLhabib]

I guess a Piloting Tips thread would be quite useful, seeing as there are lots of newcomers now with HD...

[Lance]

They'd be a lot more useful if more people posted tips, but I have to admit that very few pilots do. Come to think of it, to some degree, Charlie's [hellfire's] game guides have kinda taken their place, haven't they?

[rushin]

i think the best tip for newbies is to get out of your head the idea that you are racing in a car. Think boat and suddenly you will be driving a lot better ;)

[blackwiggle]

Could elhabib and others that posted their tips please use spaces between their sentences
It very hard to read when it comes up as a block of text.

[kanar]

Lol rushin exactly! Lance, I read the pulse walkthrough by Hellfire, great work! I'm waiting for the next one, with maybe all the br positions.

[Amon]

Anyway, I absolutely love Chenghou for Speed Laps, maybe because it's one of the tracks that only allows BRs at the obvious spots (jumps),

I'm here with you. I'm performing quite well at time trials and single laps there in rapier. Now i'm starting to fiddle with it at phantom too.

But the last chicane is killing me. At rapier i can quite easily do it without side stepping and without airbrakes catching speed zones in turn in and exit.

Another place of the track that i find hard at phantom is the long left corner after the jump. It's much to difficult to keep line and speed there.

Last thing. Best place for turbos ? I've been using it coming out of the left hairpin. But in phantom i'm starting to suspect that using it there is not the best idea..... maybe too much speed in the bumpy left corner ahead ?

[Amon]

They'd be a lot more useful if more people posted tips, but I have to admit that very few pilots do.

Well, never seen Raikkonen explaining Hamilton the correct line and brake points for Ascari either :D

[eLhabib]

The best point for turbo on Chenghou is still after the hairpin in phantom, as soon as your nose is pointing in the right direction, hit the turbo!
And yeah, that long, banked left is hit and miss on Phantom, but you can skip some of it with extended turbo flight (pull up!) ;)

[kanar]

Amon : they have about 40 or maybe more years of track records analyzed by super computers in F1... so they know the best racing lines for ages... I mean they have better than hellfire guide (no offense, fantastic job) & youtube videos!

[Lance]

Well, never seen Raikkonen explaining Hamilton the correct line and brake points for Ascari either :D

:D That's because their highly paid jobs depend on it; and it's purely for profit and not at all for fun. Close racing is anathema to the team owners; they want the least competition possible while retaining just enough for there to be fan interest and hence, money to support the series.

[Amon]

Amon : they have about 20 or maybe 30 years of track records analyzed by super computers in F1... so they know the best racing lines for ages... I mean they have better than hellfire guide (no offense, fantastic job) & youtube videos!

I know that mate. long time F1 fan here ( lets' say from Jody Scheckter in Ferrari ) :)

It was just an example to describe the situation :D

[Amon]

:D That's because their highly paid jobs depend on it; and it's purely for profit and not at all for fun. Close racing is anathema to the team owners; they want the least competition possible while retaing just enough for there to be fan interest and hence, money to support the series.

Mhhh don't think so. Here is my past experiences. I've been simracing on the PC from the start till 2 years ago.

We used to ran championships, with teams, regulations and so on. We've tried to simulate as close as it can to get the real experience of racing. On track and off the track as much as we could. Of course we where racing for "glory", no money involved.

Well, i've been part of racing teams, and i've run one for 3 years. We developed setups together, race strategies together, we had audio comunication while racing and so on.

And in all of these years, i've never seen one of my pilots give setups or hints to an opponent. And i've never done it. And i've never received any info from an opponent.

Consider that our team and the others where formed by people who where friends each other, we used to meet in person often ;)

[kanar]

yes, right. I experienced that with pulse, I had to search a lot to find what I wanted -piloting tips-. I think after the jay speed mod episode we need to regroup & share lol

[Lance]

I know that mate. long time F1 fan here ( lets' say from Jody Scheckter in Ferrari ) :)
~snip~

I've been a fan since Stirling Moss was driving Lotus for Rob Walker's private team.

[eLhabib]

I think sharing piloting strategies is one of the things that makes this community cooler than others. Of course there is rivalry, but not in any way like Amon described it. And if you don't want to, you don't have to give away your little secret as to why you have a record on a certain track, but if you want to, you can. You can even share your ghost and show everyone exactly how you did it. Doesn't mean they can replicate it ;)

But apart from the real elite knacks and perfect racing lines, I think Lance was more referring to general tips and tricks, which help newcomers enjoy the game at a competitive level. Heck, some people don't know how to use sideshift effectively, some don't even know it exists! Just to give you an example.

Btw, I would happily create a little track guide for every track, together with Charlie (because he has experience with making guides by now ;)) and some of the top pilots here.

[lunar]

@ Kanar - totally agreed. :D

great idea above, eL. This thread could be used as the pool for our knowledge then maybe a couple of guys such as you and Charlie could act as editors for what gets into the "definitive" guide. As Kanar says, it can be tough to find tips and if it could be organised in this way it would be a huge benefit.

[Amon]

I've been a fan since Stirling Moss was driving Lotus for Rob Walker's private team.

Wtf i'm a feeling you're a little older than me mate :)

My mother knew him many times ago, when F1 and the races in general where much a different business. She was at Monza with a friend of her ( old cool chap who used to test drive Fiat Abarth cars on racetrack for a living ). It was a test for an endurance race and Moss was there testing too.

Too cool :)


Of course there is rivalry, but not in any way like Amon described it.

Of course, the situation here is different. Just wanted to show an experience where you can be friend ( real friend ) with someone while keeping secrets, with no problem at all for both ;)

[Hellfire_WZ]

Btw, I would happily create a little track guide for every track, together with Charlie (because he has experience with making guides by now ;)) and some of the top pilots here.

That would be ideal, as the track guides are by far the most time consuming part of the whole thing. Once we've got them all down, I can stick them in a proper guide format.

I do have a skeleton for an HD guide that I made ages ago in anticipation, maybe I could bring it up to date :)

[Lance]

OT


Wtf i'm a feeling you're a little older than me mate :)


A little. ;)



My mother knew him many times ago, when F1 and the races in general where much a different business. She was at Monza with a friend of her ( old cool chap who used to test drive Fiat Abarth cars on racetrack for a living ). It was a test for an endurance race and Moss was there testing too.)

I liked F1 a lot better then. They still had pretty much no adverts on the cars and painted them in the racing colour of the country the manufacturer's team was from, with perhaps some slight variations in a colour band at the nose of the car, as for instance, England, with those for Lotus, BRM, Vanwall, etc., all with the body painted British Racing Green, or at least something close to it.

And best of all, Bernie Ecclestone wasn't running the show.

And Stirling Moss was my hero in my naive younger days. Along with Frank Lloyd Wright.

end OT

[eLhabib]

Charlie, let's do it, then! I'll start writing some track guides over the weekend if I find the time, maybe you and some other pilots can do that as well. You'll have the pleasure of combining them into one ;)
If there's anything else to consider, please drop me a note.
Also, I would very much like to include this to my ghosting site, once it's finished!

[Insanor]

Grr, just done Metropia Rapier sl with 23.08 - 0.01 seconds behind AHH-QUADZZILLA's #1 time. -.-

Got #1 on Ubermall rapier though, which will probably be beaten shortly anyway. :)

[chboing]

yeah this AHH-QUADZZILLA is pretty much everywhere in SL or TT, and sometimes with incredible times, as on sebenco if i remember well, where the second fastest time is like 4 seconds behind ....

i have to practise hard to get to your level guys, will be happy to read more about side shiffting wich i doesnt really use yet. This guide looks promising ;)

btw, i wonder why times arent more accurate, like millisecond, as in F1 ... would make sense wouldnt it ?

[eLhabib]

Well, do you see any entries on the record tables with exactly the same time? I don't find many. Having miliseconds would only make sense if there were a lot of times that are equal down to .xx seconds.

[chboing]

eh ;) that's because you rock

if you look a bit more down in the ladder, there are a lot !

[eLhabib]

:paperbag didn't know, sorry! The air is a lot thicker down there, yes ;)

[Lance]

Is being one thousandth of a second quicker than somebody else really a noticeable achievement. If we were just running [yes, without a vehicle, on our own feet! :D][ghastly thought, I know. ;) ] against somebody else with no instrumentation and no artificial track, would anybody even be able to tell? Would there be any advantage to it?

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This bit of philosophy brought to you by.. uh... uh........ Lance's neverending curiosity! :D

[Rubix42]

Well, in this years Olympics, an insanely small fraction of time was the difference between 8 gold medals and 7 gold medals with a silver for Michael Phelps. I would say it's a pretty solid achievement. Faster is faster in my mind.

[Lance]

I love the Olympics, but my reply is still this:
Maybe, maybe not. We clearly have a different mindset. The conditions were so artificial and the only thing that could tell who won was a computer sensor on the touchpad. We humans could not see it. Only in this fantasy world of the electronic Olympics could it possibly have mattered. And it's all about ego and money from advertising deals instead of creating any improvements for human life or saving ourselves by stopping the destruction of the habitat we need to live. So his achievement, while remarkable from the viewpoint of concentrated dedication and consistency of performance, is really quite insignificant.

[Asayyeah]

Those 2 threads with tips and this one to talk about the lines or records are really perfect & useful.
Ill add 1 or 2 different strategie about turbo on few tracks when i ll find time but now i am enjoying online as much as i can !

[rejj]

Well, do you see any entries on the record tables with exactly the same time? I don't find many. Having miliseconds would only make sense if there were a lot of times that are equal down to .xx seconds.

Also, remember that the game is running at 60 frames a second, which means 0.0166 seconds between frames. There isn't enough timing resolution in the game to give millisecond results

[eLhabib]

Display framerate does not always equal gameplay framerate. For example, Forza2 on Xbox360 runs at 60fps screen refresh rate, but the game engine actually runs at 360fps.

[lunar]

after the first magstrip up use your turbo and nose up to cut the corner to the right and land with a BR boost into the "Robots build Robots corner to the left.

The only way I can make this shortcut is by using the wall at the top of the magstrip, just before the right turn, as a launch ramp. The result of this can be spectacular :bat but I`m not sure this is what you mean, Mad-Ice. If I don`t use the wall I never make it across. Can you or someone else give me a tip on exactly where you fire the turbo, where you take off from and where you land?

[Asayyeah]

Hello Stephen :)
I used your technique ( mini ramp to jump) at the early beginning when i discovered how Cheng was about when reversed. Cheng forward got that mini ramp after the open section but with no real benefit using it.
Anyway, back on the black one : when i saw MadIce & AH Quadzilla beating my lap time by far i tried to understand it but Matthijs gave me the solution : turboing & shortcutting : i tried several location where to turbo the best .
Before that you need to have in mind to really up your nose as much as you can while turning right and doing a BR which is not an easy task to link those 3 actions in a milisecond :)
If you turbo immediately after the end of the magstrip when you are on the right side of the track you ll get a respawn ( try to test where exactly the respawn is cause when you found the limit it will be at that point to throw the turbo)
My lines are : get that speed pad on the left, stay left till the mag strip is finished then after you found where exactly is the 'respawn limit' you turn right & up your nose , throw your turbo , BR, and point your ship to the direction of that building ( which is on the right side of the track before the robot builds robots billboard : if you got that good diagonal line in the air you can land smoothly on that right part of the track where the left long curve is almost finished ( if you are too far on your right you ll hit the building side) if you throw your turbo too late : you ll have too much speed carried and hit the R. builds R. wall ( plus you not really shortcut in that way : you almost do that low ramp technique we were using before).
When everything is doing perfectly you can 'go out' from that left curve by a sweet turbo boost induced by BR hit those 2 speed pads on the left before the open section and entering the looooong right curve and maybe if you lucky get a new BR while turning that long right ( don't hit the walls before doing it and try to land on/ or / near that unique speed pad in the middle of that curve )

Last tip : the more you avoid airbrakes ( except sideshifts) the speedier it is ( i know it sounds logical to many of us here but for me i had to relearnt few things about the way i am controlling my ship compare to older wipeouts) multiple slight tap on dpad left or right is always better than 'compensating' with airbrake left or right

Thx SL again for that 2097/XL Hud where the speedometer is displayed enoughly big to let me watch it constantly :)

21.81 / 1.53.48 my latest score about Cheng reverse

[lunar]

Fantastic tips, thanks. I had a quick go before sleep and made the jump without too much trouble, but not the BR :cold I think the route across is just to the left of the second pole on the right after the magstrip, but I`ll check this some more. There is some mad stuff all around that track, but I`ll crack it in the end. :)

Congrats on your crazy time there too. 8)

How did you know I was using too much brakes? ;) Thanks for that tip, I suspected I was a brake-abuser and will have to control this bad habit one day :mr-t

[Darkdrium777]

That is effin phenomenal. Shortcut FTW!!! Just had a go at it and wow, that is totally amazing.:hyper Fly WipEout :)
1.56.07

[Mad-Ice]

It's good to see my tips are being used, but Arnaud to beat my times with is so bad. :mr-t You are abusing me mate. :p

[Asayyeah]

Héhéhé funnily enough it's like Anthony and me in the past : he discovered more than half of the shortcuts of 2097 but lol i only perfected them a bit more :P

The flow on that track is absolutely brilliant : thx SL :)

[maelgrim]

Well i'm getting through the campaign - have golded everything up until the last stage on Speed Freak - Sol 2 Rapier Time Trial - what a nightmare, a real struggle to get silver. Ive had to skip it and move to stage 7 where Golds are far easier to come by.

Any tips for this stage ?

[Avenger2197]

I may not be an expert at Sol 2 or WO for that matter, but one word(3x)pitch,pitch,pitch. Oh and practice, lots of it. Sol2 along with Sebenco really show that pitch is extremely important in HD.

Try to hug all of Sol's corners as much as you can. Enter each corner from the left wall before the corner and hard airbrake along with pitching your nose up really cuts the time down a whole lot. I don't know what ship your using but give any of the high handling/high thrust ships a shot first.

Hope this helps. Cheers!:)

[trentdf]

Well i'm getting through the campaign - have golded everything up until the last stage on Speed Freak - Sol 2 Rapier Time Trial - what a nightmare, a real struggle to get silver. Ive had to skip it and move to stage 7 where Golds are far easier to come by.

Any tips for this stage ?

1. Make sure your using a handling ship, i kept trying with icarus, and failing. When i switched to assegai, my times dropped.
2. Side shift like crazy (especially on the second straight/ curve approaching the final hairpin, if you do it right you dont even have to turn [right])
3. Idk if this is the best place, but i used my boost coming out of the final hairpin.

[maelgrim]

Thanks guys i'll give those tips a try.
I started with Assegai but switched to Icarus for this track and my times improved but still a long way from gold.
I'll try to get the sideshift happening - its difficult though as I seem to have hardwired myself to airbrake in places where sideshift would be better - I have a bit of unlearning to to.

Pitch wise I am at a bit of a loss.
I admit I don't use pitch at all as I can never tell how much affect its having plus I find that when I try to pitch down (does it make you go faster ?) I lose control a bit and fly all over the place.

I can do a single lap time that is good enough - doing 4 of them though is just not happening.

[Task]

1. Make sure your using a handling ship, i kept trying with icarus, and failing. When i switched to assegai, my times dropped.

I started with Assegai but switched to Icarus for this track and my times improved
That right there is one of my favourite things about WO. Different pilots have different styles which suit different craft.
Totally awesome! 8 )

[kanar]

lol task, but if we take a look at the ranking tables, Icaras rules... I'm a Piranha pilot from the beginning, but today I'm breaking my moral contract lol. I spent -again- the night on vineta k (I slept in the hotel near the starting line lol). I've NEVER been able, in xxxxx tries, to approach Mad-Ice Icaras ghost. My best is 18.71, and I think there's more (thrust, handling...) than the search of a perfect racing line (I mean now, after around 3000 laps). Maybe the FX350 officials should investigate on that case... I don't like this Icaras domination. But I'm about to switch to that team...

EDIT : I switched, & after 30 laps I got 18.59. Mad-Ice, your ghost is fantastic!

[Asayyeah]

Congrats Matt' both for your laptime ( 18.24) and especially the racetime : this below 1.36 is insane ;)

looking forward to your ghosts to be uploaded into Martin's site :hyper