My impression of HD..

[Flashback Jack]

In a nutshell, not to my liking.

Just purchased the game roughly nine hours ago, didn't unlock a single grid cell, and took it straight online to see what it had. Set a few top three records and crashed my way around the reverse courses.

First, I must say that the presentation is absolutely stunning; graphically it's a work of art, but for me, that's about where it ends. In my opinion, the core Wipeout gameplay has taken a rather large step backward; all the very fine refinements Studio Liverpool made to the control in Pulse have been reverted back to something nearing, perhaps exceeding the float of Pure, except in HD.

Let me put it this way -- I'd accept a cell-shaded HD offering if I were promised the same sensation of speed that spoiled me in Pulse. That sensation simply isn't there in HD. For me, Pulse is the pinnacle of the Wipeout franchise in every way. Pulse is fast, dark and menacing -- my kind of game.

I've seen fast racers. I've been spoiled by the likes of Extreme-G 3, and honestly, when you've seen the kind of velocity that seven year old PS2 game is capable of, you tend not to look back. You tend to want as fast, if not faster. Nothing to date has touched XG3, not even Burnout which through cheap visual trickery and a claim of being the fastest racer ever, could touch it. The only other game I've played that came close is Need For Speed Underground 2.. and that's coming from someone's who's seen nearly 300km/h on a real life motorcycle.

Alas, I digress, but Pulse sets the Wipeout standard for me and compared to it, HD falls well short.

About HD, I don't plan on playing it beyond the all-nighter I just pulled (half the night playing Pulse with INFAXSU, the rest on HD -- haven't slept yet and it's noon now). HD is nice, but dare I say gimmicky.

Going forward, what does that mean for me? Well, Pulse is down to its dying days -- nobody on the servers and wipeout-game.com is caked. Barring nobody being up for a game of Pulse, I'm pretty much a Wipeout spectator for as long as I could pretend to be -- at this point I'd need an excellent reason why I should continue playing HD. :)

- F

[darkfaerytales]

simple SL could add some higher speed classes through DLC , i have heard many people here complaining about that inferior sensations of speed , i'm not so pleased too sometimes about that lack of speed , just look back at phantom class on old w3o...but sincerely HD is too cool to point all complaining on this lackness , and sometimes races in phantom and rapier in some track can be very very frenetic ( take moa therma rev. or metropia rev. )

i think also that most depend on how you race, what's your style of piloting...

i'm sure studio liverpool will come up with some higher speed class in future dlc anyway

[G'Kyl]

I wholly agree with what you said about Pulse and HD, FB! It seems like few people feel about Pulse as we apparently do, but I too think the style, sense of speed and track design of Pulse is the pinnacle of the series - whereas HD is sort of... I don't know... not quite there yet.

It's out of question that HD is visually and acoustically stunning! But neither is it moving the series forward in any recognizable way nor does it feel complete as a remake - to me anyway. Yes, it certainly is the HD-update everyone had to expect, however, I'm still missing things like a fully accomplished online mode or those great physics moments when the ship would still bank left while you're already forcing it the other way by hitting the right airbrakes. Especially in terms of physics and sense of speed I find the changes made (or not made) for HD slightly dissapointing.

Ben

[Asayyeah]

I am pretty disapointed by your judgment on HD Mike & Ben but i highly respect what both you are saying and understanding your points.

I don't share the same point of view cause i am thinking more about Wipeout which may still survive in the future due to HD impact on a complete new audience. Points taken it's not the game, amazing Pilots from here (die hard fans too) want ( in terms of speed, pilot assis off , etc..) but godamn it :D we are a small community which may grow up massively sooner or later and it will be due to the right decisions SL has taken about HD. So atm few of us are not happy but who never knows if it's asked nicely :D we may have a faster mode with toned graphics in a distant future or a closest one ;)

[Frances_Penfold]

Flashback, do you really think that the handling in Pulse is so different than WOHD? I find it feels more like Pulse than Pure.

I certainly agree that WOHD is slower than Pulse, and can understand why that would be disappointing to some folks. I'd be curious to know if the speed reduction was calculated (opening the game up to a broader audience) or a constraint (imposed by the games 1080p / 60 FPS presentation).

Last comment-- you might try playing the game more in the coming weeks, WOHD has grown on me a lot since the first time I booted it up :)

[klax75]

I just have to say nothing that you have said Flashback Jack surprised me one bit. I could tell you, you wouldn't like WOHD before you ever played it. Since in any post you hold so much reverence for Pulse. If anyone said they like things to be changed, you would always revert back to how you like Pulse and everything is fine. You way or no way. lol I think you might have had a tainted look on HD from the get go. For me I can't call anything a pinnacle of anything. For the shear fact WipeOut is still around and being develop. Personally I can't call anything the top, if it is still being made. I can't give a absolute because I have no idea what the next very would be. That's just me, if WipeOut had been long sense dead then I could, then again it would just be subjective to my personal taste.

I do have to disagree, I've played WipeOut since the very first one. I have to admit, none of them have I ever felt remotely a sense of speed. All it has always felt to me, like it is Vemon sped up not much more. Am I the fast WipeOut player? Nope, never claim to be. I just have never felt a sense of speed in WipeOut, does that mean I don't like it? No of course not, for years (Literally) WipeOut game never was taken out of my PSP, one time when I did take it out, I took out Pure and put in Pulse, lol. There is no visual sense of speed, the track and background look just as crisp of a picture as if I was standing still. No blur of any kind while racing. So I never achieve racers "Tunnel vision". If I hit the gas, I am within 1 second going top speed. So no sense of building up speed. No audio to give the sense of speed, no sound of my engine straining because I am pushing it to hard. No sound of wind resistance, building up, and getting louder because I am going faster. No sense of mushy controls because I am pushing my craft to it's limits. Races being so short I've never felt a sense of speed there either, since before I know it it's over. I like doing 99 laps continuously with no pausing.

After all that, I look forward to playing WipeOut series for many years to come. Do I wish it was different, yes, I wish it was more a simulation more realistic, not so much a arcade track game, but thats just me. :)

[kanar]

Flash,


We need you. That's all. F--k I'm drunk, I've to delay my avalon stuff. Flash you ruled pulse, you're fantastic, please join the fight. sleep mode. back 22h00 Gmt+1

[love9sick]

Is this place for reviews? We have plenty of reviews as it is. I think Wipeout HD is the best in the series and even knocks out Wipeout XL, it is literally the same thing as Pulse just on the PS3, and it has nothing to do with the graphics at all. The gameplay is Wipeout and so is the feeling. No matter how fast XG3 was, which I played and beat, it still felt like a sub-par only decent futuristic racer. Loved the chick on the PS2 box art though lolz. I could never keep the sonic boom effect long enough to enjoy it before hitting a wall hahaha

[G'Kyl]

I don't share the same point of view cause i am thinking more about Wipeout which may still survive in the future due to HD impact on a complete new audience.

Hey, you won't hear me saying THAT was a bad thing! :-) You're right, HD appears to be immensly popular and whatever my truly insignificant opinion on the game: Obviously, SL did everything right there. I certainly DO appreciate and congratulate to their success!



I certainly agree that WOHD is slower than Pulse

I don't think it's actually slower. I suppose it's a matter of how things look on a big screen as compared to a small, somewhat blurry one.

I do think, however, that PS3 can handle faster speeds - that's what I find slightly disappointing.


Ben

[Flashback Jack]

Flashback, do you really think that the handling in Pulse is so different than WOHD?

It's noticeably different, Frances. It took the release of Pulse for me to recognize how virtually unmanageable Pure's control was by comparison. HD isn't entirely like Pure in its handling, but it's real close. It's odd that you say it feels more like Pulse though -- Task said the same thing at the recent gathering.

In an earlier posting of mine before I bought and took a hard look at HD, I asked why pitch seemed to be so important this time around because at least a few people said that if you didn't manage it well enough, the A.I. would manhandle you. I only realized why when I played the game -- the physics are bouncy and highly unpredictable; very reminiscent of Pure.


I'd be curious to know if the speed reduction was calculated (opening the game up to a broader audience) or a constraint (imposed by the games 1080p / 60 FPS presentation).

I thought about that, and I reckon the former, but not being overly knowledgeable about the inner workings of the PS3 and what it's ultimately capable of, I can't be sure whether it was slowed down to appeal to a somewhat more novice audience or whether it's a consequence of the larger screen/1080P format. My gut tells me that the PS3 can do more despite that.


I think you might have had a tainted look on HD from the get go.

Not entirely. HD is about as new to me as my PS3 is -- I bought the console for this. :)


WipeOut game never was taken out of my PSP, one time when I did take it out, I took out Pure and put in Pulse, lol. There is no visual sense of speed, the track and background look just as crisp of a picture as if I was standing still. No blur of any kind while racing.

Blur isn't necessary to communicate speed, and I find a lot of games abuse the effect in some effort to fake that sensation -- but if you've ever hit a turbo on the Basilico back straight, skimmed the walls on Vertica, powered around Metropia or screamed down the Moa Therma magstrip in Phantom class alongside four or five other skilled players, the speed and tension presents itself quite palpably in Pulse.

Going on less than five hours sleep at this point, and the brain wants me to write in point form, but I liken my HD experience to being bored and joining a Venom or Flash server in Pulse because nothing else is available, starting the race and simply wanting to will it to go faster because you know it can. When you've become accustomed to Pulse's Phantom class, it becomes tough to "downgrade." That's what it felt like for me in HD in all classes, and I swear, HD's Phantom feels hardly faster than low Rapier in Pulse. It could well be the larger screen, because I felt a similarly reduced sensation when I put Pulse on my 42" LCD via component cable.. ah well.

Need.. more.. sleep.

- F

[ZenDJiNN]

Interesting thread, and quite timely (for me at least) as i don't have a PS3 yet. Like Flash, i would primarily be getting a PS3 just for Wipeout (and maybe Fatal Inertia). As it's quite a hefty outlay for the PS3, i'm trying to glean all the info on the game that i can.

I'm thinking of delaying my purchase of a PS3 (Which i'm only really getting for Wipeout & perhaps Fatal Inertia) and instead getting a Slim PSP so i can use the Comp cable & play Pulse (& Pure?) on a larger screen. It's a lot cheaper than the PS3, i already have the games that i'm playing on my normal PSP and because i'm not that great a pilot yet (I can now cope with Rapier pretty well) i still have much to do with both Pulse & Pure.

Flash, you mentioned the whole screen thing with Pulse, when you plugged the PSP into the TV? I've never seen one running yet so have no idea of the graphics etc. Does it still look as good (albeit larger of course) on a bigger screen? I know it's not going to compare with HD at all, but if it's reasonably good, and still very playable and great fun, then i think this may well be the route for me.


Also, having come into the whole Wipeout scene at Pure (As Frances did also IIRC) i don't have the experience of the older games for comparison. I have tried a few, and found them to be pretty mushy and nowhere near as much fun or graphically exciting as both Pure & Pulse.

I really like both Pure & Pulse, for different reasons, and i'm only just beginning to be able to cope with Rapier in Pure, so that shows how far behind i am in Pilot skill etc. Phantom in both Pure & Pulse is a complete "No No" for me as i just end up either slamming into walls and/or running out of shield too early & blowing up!

[Colin Berry]

I don't think it's actually slower. I suppose it's a matter of how things look on a big screen as compared to a small, somewhat blurry one.



The top speed in HD is as far as I recall the same as Pulse, those stats were not altered, possibly the top end came in by 3-5kph, but no more and it might have gone up 3-5kph I cant recall it was a year ago :D The sensation though, is a little different, mainly due to the screen size and what you can see also due to what you are used to

We can make it go faster, Zone mode shows that, however in zone mode we change the ship a lot so that at super fast speeds it doesnt fly off a jump and never come down.
To have a faster class in HD would take a lot of consideration, we would need to consider the effect on each track, in terms of collision, where you can fly to, what you can see, where you get reset, etc. In short it would be a large chunk of work to add to the list of things we'd like to do. It was never planned for HD, whether we go back and look at it again, I dont know much depends on the success of HD as to what happens next.

[boogalogist]

In short, I'd like to think that those extras that Colin mentioned will probably be in the next full priced Wipeout!


However, I would agree with Colin on this one. I could not see much (if any) speed changes from Pulse to HD. Phantom has, and still is, blindingly fast for me.


ZenDJiNN: If you use the cables from the PSP to the TV, there'll be black areas on the top and the side of TV display. What this means is that the PSP won't be able to utilize the whole screen. There are some screenshots of this on the net, do check it out.

[ZenDJiNN]

Thanks for that boogalogist, i'll do that. Been looking around at what's available and there alse seems to be a 1080p VGA box that'll perform on a VGA screen, which may be qorth a look.

Cheers! :)

[Mad-Ice]

I agree with Flashback_Jack about the speed that lacks in HD! HD is definately faster then Pure, just look at the records made in Pure and in HD. For one of the examples:

Pure; Vineta K, SL 19.20 sec.
HD; Vineta K, SL 18.39 sec.

But HD is definately slower then Pulse which is a shame.

Pulse; Moa Therma White, SL 22.04 sec.
HD; Moa Therma White, SL 22.98 sec.

These are just two examples and I really hope HD will become faster then Pulse!!!

[Wip3ou7]

I own every XG game (1 and 2 on N64, XGIII on PS2, and XGRA on XBOX) and I don't feel that XG is as good, or as fast as WipEout HD. As a collector of the scifi racing genre (I have it all trust me) I really feel that WipEout HD is exceptional. To me it feels like playing WipEout 3 (or even XL) and I can't complain about that.

[Skvall]

ZenDJiNN: I have never played PSP on a television, but the framerate in both Pure and Pulse are so bad compared to WOHD that I wouldnt recommend them before WOHD even if you dont care about the graphics.

And to everyone else: Isn't it possible that the much better framerate makes the game feel a little bit slower? That and the bigger screen in combination.

[Crob]

But HD is definately slower then Pulse which is a shame.

But surely these speeds are historically consistent, and faster speeds should be expected in FX450 series and above? ;)

[eLhabib]

Chris, you are the master of the legendary art of the PR response :P

[Skvall]

haha ^_^

[klax75]

But surely these speeds are historically consistent, and faster speeds should be expected in FX450 series and above? ;)

I have stated this before and no one seems to comment. Pure was the FX300, HD FX350 (Development League, in Preparation of FX400) Pulse is the FX400 Premier league so it makes prefect sense to me that HD maybe slower then Pulse. So when the actual FX450 League starts, it could be a Development League for the Premier FX500 League.

It just makes no sense to argue about this in my mind. It's like in real life racing. In saying "Why is the Ferrari F2006, slower then the F2007?!" New Season, New League brings different developments.

It's the third game in the new generation yes, but chronologically, it's the second installment. So it would be faster then Pure, slower then Pulse.

[ZenDJiNN]

ZenDJiNN: I have never played PSP on a television, but the framerate in both Pure and Pulse are so bad compared to WOHD that I wouldnt recommend them before WOHD even if you dont care about the graphics.

Thanks skvall. After much reading & deliberation i think you're correct. Much as i love Pulse & Pure (Been playing a lot of Pure lately & it's just fantastic) it's probably best kept on the PSP screen. It was kinda wishful thinking that it could only look better on a bigger screen, and to be able to see even more of those great tracks....!!! :eek

Looks like i'm gonna have to go out, get a PS3 and find out what HD is like for myself. I'm sure i won't be too disappointed! :D

[Frances_Penfold]

Just an alternate opinion about Pure/Pulse played on a 480p TV-- I think it's great :)

Yes, the frame rate is less than WOHD, and no, it won't fill the entire screen. A few folks have reported a slight "delay" between the controls and the display on the TV.

But speaking for myself and my TV (480p LG LCD, 20") it plays really, really well. My TV has a better refresh rate and brightness so it's definitely a step up presentation wise. I haven't had any problems with controller delay.

Of course, if you own a big ol' HDTV (>40" or 50"), Pure/Pulse will look like ass blown up on the big screen. But sit square in front of a smallish 480p TV and Pure/Pulse are definitely "console like" experiences-- honestly I don't notice THAT big difference between WOHD and the PSP games on my little TV.

[Lance]

Pulse; Moa Therma White, SL 22.04 sec.
HD; Moa Therma White, SL 22.98 sec.


Which means in this case that HD was about 96 percent as fast as Pulse. Not a specially significant difference in how fast it would feel, it seems to me.

[cybrpnk]

The top speed in HD is as far as I recall the same as Pulse, those stats were not altered, possibly the top end came in by 3-5kph, but no more and it might have gone up 3-5kph I cant recall it was a year ago :D The sensation though, is a little different, mainly due to the screen size and what you can see also due to what you are used to

We can make it go faster, Zone mode shows that, however in zone mode we change the ship a lot so that at super fast speeds it doesnt fly off a jump and never come down.
To have a faster class in HD would take a lot of consideration, we would need to consider the effect on each track, in terms of collision, where you can fly to, what you can see, where you get reset, etc. In short it would be a large chunk of work to add to the list of things we'd like to do. It was never planned for HD, whether we go back and look at it again, I dont know much depends on the success of HD as to what happens next.

And how successful has it been just out of curiosity??? Very successful...I hope...

As with the top speeds...I was thinking it might be the translation from small PSP screen to big HD TV screen that would have contributed to the game seemingly slow...

But the numbers in Lance's quoted post above speaks some truth...

[darkfaerytales]

In short it would be a large chunk of work to add to the list of things we'd like to do.

hehee and what's there in this list of things you'd like to do:g

can we know it colin ??????????:p

:beer

[JABBERJAW]

There is no speed difference, and I think HD is faster. BECAUSE when you put it on the TV, pulse looks much slower than on the psp. This is even more true if you were to put pulse at 333. I am thinking about playing metropia reverse(pulse) and HD foward (close to the same track) and put them up against each other on two tvs on the recording and see what moves quicker. The handling is more slippery than pulse, but less than pure, and the float is nice, making pitch control an important part of the game again, which was lost in pure and pulse somewhat. However, I would like a faster speed class to compensate for the TV. I disagree about the pinacle of the series though, XL takes that for me, hands down, being it is a much harder game for getting perfect runs. I realize though that many new players however will like the HD handling much better

[Flashback Jack]

Well, I decided to heed G'Kyl's advice and gave HD another go.

Still currently at around 8% trophy completion, fully all of them earned online. I'm still utterly unfamiliar with the majority of the newest reverse courses, so I get throttled badly on them.

I did manage to head into the options and lower my thrust and brake sensitivity settings, which made a massive difference in the overall feel. Lowering the airbrake settings I find allows one to coast through hairpins quite fast -- a good thing. Now I have the power of Pure's Triakis deceleration reduction system at my disposal, muahaha!

Slowly but surely it's growing on me, but only as long as I keep Pulse out of my conscious stream, so next step is to fill out my trophy collection and attack some of your times. :+

- F