Belgian GP!

[RJ O'Connell]

EuroSport Article (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/07092008/58/hamilton-stripped-belgian-gp-win.html)

Bad call, FIA. 25 seconds penalty for Hamilton was downright overkill, especially considering he did exactly what a driver has to do if he cuts the corner and ends up advancing his position - and then went back and successfully overtook Raikkonen - who, by the way, would have lost the race regardless because his wet driving is just average.

As someone who doesn't believe in the "FIA/Ferrari Conspiracy" is any more than just sore-loser McLaren supporters looking for an excuse, that was a **** decision.

Hamilton still holds the points lead and McLaren will appeal the ruling. My last point aside, I really hope they overturn the decision. In fact, I would be surprised if Hamilton doesn't get back the win. The sanctioning body will not shoot itself in the foot like this and risk tarnishing their image.

And before anyone brings it up, I'm not accusing all McLaren fans of being sore losers, but a lot of people who buy into the "conspiracy" are aligned with the Silver Arrows...

[Lance]

I've not followed F1 for several years, which would explain why I associate "The Silver Arrows" with the Mercedes-Benz racing team cars of the 1930's.

[RJ O'Connell]

Well, McLaren has essentially been a M-B factory outfit since the late 90s. I miss the 90s in F1. All those fledgeling teams running on a 10-year-old car and a $150 budget. :g

[/offtopic]

[Lance]

1930's 750 kilogram cars with 6.5 liter supercharged engines. WOOHOO!

[borell]

I agree, the penalty was overkill.

However, I do not agree that he did nothing wrong. After cutting the corner Hamilton realised that he had to let Räikkönen pass, but as soon as Räikkönen's car was an inch ahead Hamilton pushed the throttle to overtake him again. To me it seems like he never really let Räikkönen get in front of him.

[swift killer]

The fact is, there is more to what Hamilton did;

In cutting the chicane he may have let Raikkonen back past, but he also used the situation to his advantage, if he had not have cut the chicane, he would not have been in any sort of position to make a move on Raikkonen.

Also, the rule which was violated was Chapter 4, Article 2, which also states that the driver may not make an overtaking manouvre untill two corners after the said incident, Hamilton did not obey this rule.

There is also no excuse that Hamilton did it by accident, he pretty much did it on purpose, he knew what he was doing the moment he left the track.

Hamilton may have been ahead in the chicane, but he was on the outside line, Raikkonen had the right to defend his line, which was the racing line. Also Lewis Hamilton broke too late to make it round turn 19.

When Lewis Hamilton let Raikkonen back past, it was only enough to just let Raikkonen gain minimal distance, so when Hamilton put the throttle back down, he was right under Raikkonen's gearbox which enabled him to make his move, which was not legal as drivers must wait till two corners later.

Lewis Hamilton may have given the place back to Kimi, but, he did not give it back with the intention of letting Kimi regaining his position.

Whether you like it or not, Hamilton did break the rules, the problem is fans and some of the drivers do not understand the rules enough or bother to read them to understand these decisions, the rules are not VAGUE, people just dont bother to read them.

I guarantee that any other driver would have recieved the same penaulty for the same offence, also, if Raikkonen finished, he too would have recieved a penaulty.

[borell]

Thanks for the info swift! :+


Also, the rule which was violated was Chapter 4, Article 2, which also states that the driver may not make an overtaking manouvre untill two corners after the said incident, Hamilton did not obey this rule.

He certainly did not.

[Lance]

Nicky Lauda, the former F1 champion [3 times], was very upset by the stewards' decision, and I think I agree with him on this one. The decision was made too late, about 2 hours after the race was done, and it should not have been up to the stewards to make such an important decision, but to somebody much higher up, maybe even Ecclestone level executive rank.

[swift killer]

I think the delay is more to do with the way the day is scheduled. And i disagree, Hamilton clearly did gain an advantage.

[Lance]

If they don't impose the penalty during the race so that there is some chance for the team to compensate for it during the rest of the race, then it is much more unfair than any perceived cheating that may have been done. The way this was done left no chance to the team. Raikkonen at least had a chance to overcome what happened.

Very bad officiating.

[infoxicated]

In other news, the finale of the IndyCar Season at Chicago was the best of the year and, wow!, what a finish;

http://www.infoxicated.com/images/indycar_chicago_finish.jpg

But, oooh - the controversy that ensued when Dixon was awarded the win because his transponder triggered that he'd crossed the line first. However, not being the FIA, the IRL promptly corrected the mistake within minutes of the race finishing and Helio was declared the winner instead.

Ecclestone, Mosley, and all the other assholes that run the FIA think they're more important than the sport itself. Just one of the reasons why I refuse to watch.

Oh, and Lewis Hamilton has a face I'd never tire of punching.

Anyhow, back to the self proclaimed "pinacle of motorsports" ;)

[eLhabib]

back to wipEout, you mean? :D

[Lance]

That would be more us proclaiming that rather than WipEout doing the self-proclaiming.
WipEout does not proclaim; it demonstrates! :D

[swift killer]

Anyhow, back to the self proclaimed "pinacle of motorsports" ;)

For me, the pinacle of motorsport is Indy and LeMans, Formula 1 is no longer a sport, it's a business, there is no soul, it just functions in it own bland way, being too ignorant to change for the better.

And yes, that was one hell of a finish at Chicagoland! :D

Also, the penaulty could not be given as it was the last lap, the 25 seconds is the equivalent to a drive through penaulty, either way, Hamilton will be champion and F1 will carry on pretending that it is not a sinking ship.

[BaldyCurly]

Also, the rule which was violated was Chapter 4, Article 2, which also states that the driver may not make an overtaking manouvre untill two corners after the said incident, Hamilton did not obey this rule.


As I understand it there is currently no rules defining what actually constitutes "giving the place back" after taking a place by leaving the race track. Do you have a linky for this?

Also, check out the in car footage here;
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

Lewis was always gonna nail kimi once the rain started as the mac is much better in cooler temps with it's tyres, the ferrari's much perfer the hotter temps this year and also in the wet the macs seem to rule this year. How many times did the on form massa fall off the track @ silverstone this year!




I guarantee that any other driver would have recieved the same penaulty for the same offence, also, if Raikkonen finished, he too would have recieved a penaulty.


Really? Massa, pitlane in Spain, just a fine (which i was happy about as massa owned that race). GP2, Spa, Senna, same deal yet he gets a drive though = all but end of championship for Senna.

The thing that gets me most is the differences we have from race to race, I think we should have professional people acting as ref's at each race and it shoudl be the same group of people for each race too like most other sports. Also, why have a range of options when dishing out punishments? In most other sports and foul = freekick not a freekick or a drop goal or a cash fine.

Sorry for ranting but been watching F1 for nearly 30 years and this is something I feel quite passionate about:)

[swift killer]

you can download the FIA regs from their website, but its abit iffy when it comes to telling which PDF is relelvant to the issue, also, those pdfs are condensed versions of the rules, I have the actual regs in original dossier form (dont ask why, im just f1 mad) i'll try to scan them up.

[bothamliam]

I think this is ridiculous, im not a supporter of Hamilton ( i am in fact a fan of Raikommen ), but there is no WAY, that the FIA should have penalized Hamilton for that mistake, he took evasive action to avoid a collision, and then allowed Kimi back into the lead as soon as he heard to do so over the radio. Yet they have penalized him for it.

Masa didnt deserve to win that race, Hamilton put in the work, he should have won.

[swift killer]

FIA clarified the rule; you must not repass in the next corner, that is the rule which Hamilton broke, the fact that there is an appeal just smacks of Mclaren's usual attempts to try win the championship in the courtroom, sooner or later Hamilton is going to become sick of Mclaren and he will leave for another team.

[RJ O'Connell]

Hamilton will still win the World Championship even if they don't win the appeal.

[Axel]

I hope he does. I mean he proved to me why he should be world champion. He drove fantastically last Sunday. He pushed his Mclaren to the limits. Man it's a shame the only thing slowing him down are the tyres wearing out. They really need to sort them out.

[swift killer]

Hamilton will still win the World Championship even if they don't win the appeal.

The appeal is just Mclaren being Mclaren = trying to win titles in the courtroom, even when they know they've broken the rules.

On a positive note, anyone notice how many times Lewis Hamilton's name pops up already on the F1 records up on wikipedia? (I don't know who decided to include Indy500 as a Grand Prix, it's just screwing up the records a tad) Also, I believe Nick Heidfeld is about to break Micheal Schumacher's record of consecutive finishes = 24.

You can not deny that Lewis Hamilton is, to Ferrari's annoyance, very consistent and possibly on his way to being one of the all time greats, as well as Sebastian Vettel, although the move to Red Bull from Toro Rosso may baulk his career down abit.

[Ricanebleu]

I think that after all it is not about a rule, but about moral code and gentlemen’s agreement.
Is Hamilton one of the best drivers ever to be on the F1 Championship? Yes.
Did he cut the corner? Yes, and he did it because he had hit Kimi’s car in an attempt to over pass him in an aggressive and irresponsible driving manner .
Did he let Raikkonen pass? Not really, he just used the opportunity to get into his slipstream and he also pushed him off the racing line in a very unsportly manner.
Could Hamilton win without this acrobatic number? Possible, he had the speed and the talent.
Could Raikkonen win? Maybe. Previously to his crush and following a new incident caused by Hamilton’s dangerous driving involving a third (Rosberg?) car wich Kimi barely managed to pass without damaging his ,Hamilton’s and the Williams , the same Williams hits his car causing it to spin and damage suspension and tires.
Is Hamilton to be blamed ? He is young, lost a title by 1 point because of the team’s bad management last year and he desperately wants to win this year. MShumacher had similar incidents with Villeneuve in his early years, so I guess when ego becomes a factor, reason does not.
Did Hamilton deserve the penalty? Yes
Is it fair that Massa had profited over this incident? Definitely not
Has justice been made? Definitely not
Could something else be made to make this right? I don’t see what, and I find disappointing that this kind of behavior is still found in F1.
Coming back to wipeout, who said before the 2197 season that the “reverse-inertia deceleration system” is illegal? So I guess as long as a higher power have higher interests, they will always make questionable decisions in order to turn things the way it wants, in this case, just as in F9000, rating.

[Lance]

"Coming back to wipeout..."

Back? WipEout is elsewhere in the forums. This is about the Belgian GP, real life.

[Ricanebleu]

Yes , I know that Lance :rolleyes:, still, I can’t help not noticing that the real life of F1 of the last couple of years mirrors quite well the fictional life of wipeout. Or is it the other way around? :p.

[RJ O'Connell]

So they threw the appeal out.

Nonetheless, McLaren cannot afford to dwell. Otherwise, they'll end up repeating 2007. And they'll have nobody else to blame except themselves. (But they'll subsequently pass the blame to the FIA and Ferrari like clockwork anyway.)

[mclarensmps]

i refuse to comment on this travesty

[Lance]

Well, calling it a travesty is a biT of a comment. :)

[swift killer]

Oh come off it you bunch of babies, Hamilton broke the rules and he more or less was stretching them at monza, don't you dare go saying Schumacher would be let off if he did the same or post a link to some silly video of Hungary 2006, that video is irrelevant because he did'nt even finish that race.

[omega329]

I'm surprised people are still going on about this...

[Lance]

I find that very often, people like to have the last word. They feel if they can get in the last comment, then it proves that they were the ones who were right.

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Thread closed.
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I have the last word. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ;)





































Note that I didn't actually close the thread. :D