Controlling HD...

[cybrpnk]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but if it has...please feel free to merge, delete, burn or whatever you mods do to useless threads...lance and fox...

I know that Habib has had a go at HD, so maybe he is more fit to answer this question...

What is the default controller layout for HD like???

Are we able to customise it this time around???

What's everyone's preferred controller setup like???

I know Fusion did not give us the option to customise the layout and it kinda infuriated me...for me, for some reason, I prefer...

traingle = accelerate ( with x as accelerate is harder to hit circle to fire weapon)
circle = fire weapon (easier for me to use the bottom of my thumb whilst accelerating on triangle)
square = absorb
x = look back
R2 = right aribrake
L2 = left airbrake

[Sausehuhn]

Definitely R1 and L1 for airbrakes, as they react like the PS2's R2 and L2 buttons.
If you use the motion sensor for steering I could also imagine to use some of the D-Pad's buttons for acceleration/absorb/etc. - if it's possible to asign actions to the different buttons of the D-Pad of course.
Maybe R2/L2 could work for acceleration as well; especially because in WOHD your acceleration depends on how hard you press the button.

[eLhabib]

Default setup, IIRC, is this:

X = Accelerate
[] = Fire
O = Absorb
/\ = Look back
Select = View change
R2, L2 = Airbrakes

Yes, you can assign each button individually. Personally, first thing I'd do is reassign the airbrakes to R1, L1 - I just can't deal with the analog-ness of the rear ones. Airbrakes need to be quick and responsive imo, and forget double-tapping analog triggers.

Furthermore, you can of course choose if you wanna use the sixaxis
- not at all
- just for pitch
- for pitch and steering

then there's some sensitivity settings and a rumble on/off, and that's it.

[Darkdrium777]

Yes I will do the same thing too with the airbrakes. I thought they would use the triggers, and they did :| Well doesn't matter ;) I'll keep the face button layout though.

[Sausehuhn]

eL, if motion steering is activated, can you assign every D-Pad button individually?

[eLhabib]

Don't know, but I wouldn't think so.

[Frances_Penfold]

No side shifting?!

[eLhabib]

???
Of course there is sideshifting! Double tap the airbrake, no changes there.

[alka16r]

Please excuse my poor english but what "sideshifting" means ?

[xtriko]

when you quick double press a side break, it will strafe you to that side.

[Frances_Penfold]

???
Of course there is sideshifting! Double tap the airbrake, no changes there.

Ok, thanks! I didn't see it mentioned in your earlier post and wondered if it had been removed from the game :)

(Also, I am a single-button sideshifting pilot, so my usual configuration involves one button + direction for air brake, and another button + direction for sideshift.)

[eLhabib]

Ah, I see. Didn't know there were actually people playing on single-brake :P

[Frances_Penfold]

Yeah, I'm stupid like that :)

I guess this what happens when your first real Wipeout game is Pure :paperbag

[nrXic]

It depends on how strong the airbrakes are. By using L2 and R2, they have a wide range of motion, meaning that analog control is easier. Pressing halfway down on R2, is easier than halfway down on R1.

So if Sony Liverpool made the brakes so they have that much intricacy, I'll stick with L2 and R2 (though I'll probably look for those trigger add-on peices to make it like the 360s triggers).

But if pressing halfway doesn't make a big difference, I'll stick with L1 and R1 because they're easier to double tap.

[cybrpnk]

Ah, I see. Didn't know there were actually people playing on single-brake :P

I had to learn how to play single brake on the PSP...only because the ergonomics of the damn thing is pretty bad, which causes my fingers to hurt when I try to steer and brake with my left hand...

btw...I have the old fatty boombatty PSP's for those who are going to say they have improved the ergonomics slightly for the new ones...

anyway...can't wait to fly like the lightning once again in glorious HD and on the glorious dual shock 3 with sixaxis...

as for R1/L1 combo or an R2/L2 combo??? I'm not sure...the analogue might actually be effective to achieve faster times...I'm thinking for corners which aren't so severe, sometimes you only need to apply maybe 40% airbrake, lean, and power out...whereas if you use digital R1/L1s wouldn't that hit the airbrakes at 100% all of the time??? even when you don't need to???

* goes back to waiting patiently in the corner for a release date *

[eLhabib]

I found the R2/L2 triggers too unresponsive in a quick race. If you really need to brake hard, it just takes too long getting the trigger all the way to the maximum position (they are quite springy, you know). And for slight braking you can still tap the R1/L1 ever so briefly, I'd imagine it does roughly the same as pressing in R2/L2 ever so slightly.

I guess lots and lots of playtime will tell (so bring it on, SL!) ;)

[Rapier Racer]

I've noticed that also. (not with HD obviously) It is my humble opinion that the DS3's "trigger" buttons are a PAIN IN THE ASS. Totally pointless things, the DS2 is still the best all round pad ever.

[eLhabib]

Ach, I do like them for 'normal' racing games, like Motorstorm. They work well for analog acceleration. I guess they totally suck for every other genre though... (imagines Tekken with analog R2/L2 - damn, I'll finally need an arcade stick!)

[Sausehuhn]

You can also use your DS2 with the PS3 as far as I know. There are some connectors out there :)

[eLhabib]

Yeah but then who likes wires nowadays? :P

[Norfolk'n'Clue]

Those little pastic clip on triggers for the L2/R2 buttons are fab. They make the controller much more comfortable to hold, and the triggers themselves easier to use without your finger slipping off (ties in with 'more comfortable to hold', as you don't have to change your grip to STOP your fingers slipping off). 2 quid a pair too. Worth it.

[eLhabib]

linky?

[cnmth]

pic:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8854/controller1lw9.jpg

some review:
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Xiofire/gioteck-real-triggers-for-pstriple-review-91143.phtml

:)

[eLhabib]

Oh, that's totally different than I imagined! Might be worth looking into. Thanks for the link!

[Rapier Racer]

Fingers slipping off is not my issue it's how much I need to push the button in to make sure whatever I'm trying to do actually happens.

I may change the config when HD comes out, I recall it felt so strange when using the airbrakes via L2 R2 I didn't really like it.

[Axel]

I was hoping for a analogue response to the R2/L2 breaks. You know the more you pressed, the harder the breaks would work etc. Shame that is not the case.

[Sausehuhn]

That's the case for acceleration. So you could still set accelerate to L2/R2 if you prefer that. A lot of racing games have that.

[eLhabib]

AFAIK the R2/L2 brakes do break soft if you press slightly and hard if you press all the way down. I just don't like that, that's why I'll go for R1/L1.

[Axel]

Ah thanks for clearing that up, that sounds really dandy for me actually. But as you have mentioned, it might not work as good as it sounds.

[alka16r]

Does somebody get and use DS3 since its retailed? if so, is there any matter to use it instead of sisaxis controller with WOHD? (actually, what's the best to use to control and handle WOHD)

[Darkdrium777]

Désolé mais je pense que tu vas devoir l'écrire en français ou mieux l'écrire en anglais parce que j'ai absolument rien compris.

I didn't understand, sorry. :( I have really no idea what you are asking about.

[Lance]

He wants to know if anyone has used the DualShock3 controller and if there's any advantage or difference in using that compared to using a six-axis for HD.

[alka16r]

Oups! Sorry for my poor english...and thanks Lance for translation !

[eLhabib]

Well, you have rumble with the DS3. That's the main difference. And the controller is a bit heavier and doesn't feel as cheap as the feathery Sixaxis.
1up.com mentioned in a preview a couple of months ago that the pad would actually rumble when you're off-pitch, but that's pretty much a rumor right now. If it holds true, a DS3 could potentially give you an advantage over a Sixaxis - if that's what you were asking...

[Rapier Racer]

It depends on how old your Sixaxis is, launch day and earlier pads are not as good as newer ones for the motion sensing.

[DjManiac21]

We could probably get a good kick out of playing HD with motion controls, furthermore if we have voice chat in the game!
Could be a nice break in between races / tournaments, I can already feel the pressure of racing you guys in HD :blarg

[alka16r]

Thanks.That's what i wanna know.

[kz_]

Just confirming --

You *can* use the D-pad for steering and pitch control, right?

I'd scream and cry if I was forced to use the analog stick.

/Andrew

[Darkdrium777]

Yeah of course, why would that change from other WipEouts?

[Atom6x!]

I'm gonna try and play with the motion controls right from the start, maybe it's tough to get used to but I'll bet it'll be a better experience when you've gotten it down compared to the standard controls.

[Amon]

I'm doing the same here. I'm not afraid of the learning curve and ready to invest time in this control method.

[Axel]

I'll prob use the motion control for pitch. But apart from that, it's analogue all the way.

[Mad-Ice]

I am going to try out first person view with full motion control. I think I will suck so bad, being a D-pad man with close view guy.:lol

[Sausehuhn]

You and close-view? And you call yourself an AG-Pilot? You, Sir, are on the right way if you chose internal view for your next WipEout experiences.

;)

[eLhabib]

Uhm, I use close-view as well :P
what? I want to see my ship, it's beautiful, y'know?

[Sausehuhn]

Well, to be honest, I do the same.
But that's just for WO1 - WO3, because of the swinging rear. That's gone since WOF, so I see no need in this view anymore.

Internal view is the only true way to the full experience of high speed :D

[Flashback Jack]

I usually play internal view for racers, but for Wipeout Pure/Pulse it's far view for me; I'd rather not spit up my insides from vertigo, thanks. :)

- F

[DawnFireDragoon]

how many camera views are in HD? just interior and exterior, or do you have close exterior and far exterior as well?

[cybrpnk]

won't mind a new cockpit view...much like Wip3out...but with the HUD actually on the dash...and functioning too...not just a decal...:)

Or the HUD could even be displayed/projected onto the front wind screen...much like the intro to 2097 but in real-time...yeah!!!

am I asking for too much Mr. Egg, Mr. Berry and the SL gang???

[RJ O'Connell]

W3O's cockpit was just the nose-cam with a bunch of clutter on the bottom of the screen, really - that's why it was short-lived, a cockpit cam would have to be really, really intuitive and I doubt that the nature of the game would allow for it.

Besides, nothing's going to get most Wipeout players out of external cam. That's like telling someone to drive down freeways with their feet on the steering wheel. ;)

[cybrpnk]

With the TV WipEout's...I don't mind the internal view actually...as long as the fps is rock solid...otherwise I get a little nauseated...feel I can judge cornering a lit better internally...taking turns a lot more tighter and closer to the barrier...

For the PSP however, I've had to play externally...I don't know why I can't play it internally, could be the size of the screen maybe??? Don't know...hmmm...could also be the analogue nub...which is quite twitchy...if only we could plug in the SIXAXIS into the PSP...is that even possible???

[RJ O'Connell]

Slamming into a wall in WO1 at speed causes that annoying barrel rolling (the irony!) which causes me to hit walls even further afterwards. Since WO1 is my most practiced game, I've grown to dislike the nose cam.

[Amon]

Uhm, I use close-view as well :P
what? I want to see my ship, it's beautiful, y'know?

ditto, close up for me too in all wipeouts.

[eLhabib]

how many camera views are in HD? just interior and exterior, or do you have close exterior and far exterior as well?

There is nosecam, close and far.

[Frances_Penfold]

I've tried to learn to use the internal view for Wipeout Pure / Pulse and sometimes get into it-- I can definitely appreciate the sense of speed it provides as well as the unobstructed view of what is in front of one's ship :)

Thing is, the barrel rolls really mess me up when playing internal view. I actually kinda *like* barrel rolls in Wipeout but when playing with internal view? Oiy. It's too disorienting for me personally. So I expect I will be playing WOHD with a close view.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how I will be playing WOHD, and am sorta looking forward to trying different options. In general I prefer d-pad control to analog for *most* racers but am certainly game for trying the analog stick or motion controls. Use of motion controls for pitch control would seem like a no-brainer.

[Chill]

Always been an interior player... I'll try exterior only if I wanna check out my craft, but that's the only reason... I've played interior forever, most likely because I looked up to my dad as a kid, and he played the first Wipeout interior, which I didn't like until I decided my dad was really cool... hahaha... ;) Then got into it... Love the feeling of being the pilot.

P.S. I don't really like the motion effective camera, but I could get use to it later... the only thing is that I might not be able to go back to other Wipeouts and play them as well, you know? :(

[Asayyeah]

Internal all the way baby for me :)

I shall test motion sensor to have a funny feeling with friends at home this weekend, but i think i am gonna use the pitch with motion and Dpad or analog ( analog will be better due to his implementation into the controller : about pulse i had so many cramps with the nub but here with the DS3 the nubs are perfectly located and no more cramps )

[cnmth]

I am going to try out first person view with full motion control. I think I will suck so bad, being a D-pad man with close view guy.:lol

Gonna try the same ;)
I think it will be a big learning curve but once you get used 2 it,
it will be more precise then the d-pad (If it works good, motion steering for burnout and motorstorm were quite sucky ;0) but we'll see that in 2 days.

Internal view will also be a pain in the ass @ start if your not used 2 it (external view guy).

If this all fails ;) i will try the analog b4 the d-pad cause the analog is better on the ps3 controller then the psp.
And ofc. my old external view.

:lol

[Skvall]

Usually I play with external. But in the first WO I use internal view because the ship seems to have a smaller hitbox or something. external = more collisions

Will give both a try in HD and see what I like the most. =P

[Axel]

External for me baby! For some reason I just love seeing the whole craft. If the cockpit biew was properly detailed, then my preference might change. Untill then, external far for me baby.

[lunar]

Usually I play with external. But in the first WO I use internal view because the ship seems to have a smaller hitbox or something. external = more collisions

I never noticed that. I`m the other way round. I always use external on original Wipeout, the only one where I do. On Wipeout 1 the ship really seems part of the world, whereas on Pure and Pulse it looks like a pivoting, superimposed model on a scrolling track. If that makes sense to anyone :) The pivoting look is particularly strong in Pulse, and in Pure the ship seems more "free". I`m quite encouraged by the way the ship can get further away from the camera on external view in HD. Wipeout 1 does this and it gives a great sense of realism. I hope the HD ships look like they`re in the world you`re looking at, not superimposed, but I will probably end up on internal with my lovely new DS3.... very soon. :D

[blackwiggle]

I've always used internal view on all the WO games,but in Pure and Pulse it seems like you are getting too much information coming at you all the time,so I started using near view.

I'll probably start trying with the sixaxis when HD is out with internal view, as I think that would be the easiest and quickest way to work out exactly how much movement you'd need with this control method

I have a feeling that to get the best control in this mode, you're going to have to have your arms resting on your knees so you don't end up all over the place,if that's the case,I might rig up some sort of short mic stand with a goose neck head and put the controller in that,save myself from back ache.

[Skvall]

I never noticed that. I`m the other way round. I always use external on original Wipeout

It's mainly when colliding with another ship, i am pretty sure about this. =P

[Medusa]

Lunar doesn't collide with other ships anymore on Wipeout 1. He can't be an accurate judge of this?:lol

[Lance]

I only collide with walls.



As long as I'm playing time-trial. :g

Always nosecam. Those unintended barrel-rolls are.. amusing.

[Rapier Racer]

I'll tell you one thing, those 'trigger' buttons on the PS3 pads are just **** for sideshifts, I mean complete ****!

[eLhabib]

^agreed. first thing I did was change the airbrakes to R1/L1.

[Rubix42]

Am I the only one who plays with face buttons as the airbrakes? Normally X for left and O for right. Thrust and weapons assigned to right and left triggers respectively.

[lunar]

I put the airbrakes to R1/L1 before I even played it!

I`m finding BR`s hit and miss with the stick, but that will probably come with practice. I think pitch control on the motion sensor is going to be a winner, but I will need to work on my co-ordination to start getting that to feel natural :dizzy

Sideshifts are very strong, a little learning needed there, but all round it seems to control quite nicely. :)

The effect on the boost pads was strange at first, but now I don`t notice it.

Time to tidy up the house and get back to WipEout!

[Amon]

My experiences after 2 hours of play.

Im using full motion controls, far external view, and l2 + r2 for airbrakes.

Full motion control sensitivity started at 30 % and now is at 50 %.

Airbrakes no "analog" buttons feel great, yuo can decide how much braking force yuo want to apply it seems.

Full motion controls takes a while to feel natural. First hour was awful, now i'm getting used at them and i'm starting to do what i want whit them.

Only real problem is that there is a feeling of lag in them. You have to anticipate movement a lot more of what it look natural. Don't know if it's real or perceived lag but it's there for me.

Amon out, back to racing !

[cybrpnk]

Am I the only one who plays with face buttons as the airbrakes? Normally X for left and O for right. Thrust and weapons assigned to right and left triggers respectively.

wow...never heard of that config before...interesting concept...why not square for left airbrake and circle for right???

31% of HD in my PS3!!! cmon cmon!!!

[Rubix42]

I tried it, but for quick switching on tough sections of track, it's nice to have them right next to each other.

[cybrpnk]

Had a quick game before I left for work...the controls have loosened up a lot...this could also be due to the analogue hardware being entirely different for the PSP in comparison to the Dual Shock 3...

Loose is good yet....it has a certain tightness for precision cornering only millimetres away from walls and whatnot...I have never enjoyed flying from internal cam since 2097...

Will try out the motion controls tonight...after coming home from drinks...which I don't think is a very good idea...aaaaahahahaha

Thanks Studio Liverpool for improving this aspect of WipEout 100 fold...

[G-Hob]

In Wipeout Fusion, I found the analog face buttons of the DualShock 2 actually hindered the gameplay, because you had to keep the X button jammed down as hard as possible to maintain maximum acceleration. I would often find my ship wasn't going as fast as possible because my right thumb had relaxed slightly. I resolved the problem by plugging in a DualShock 1.

So, has anyone had any trouble with the acceleration in Wipeout HD?

[mangaroo]

Yeah a few of us did G-Hob, but you can fix it in the control options by setting it to 10% acceleration sensitivity (which is max) so it basically always gives you full power

[Darkdrium777]

I have succumbed to D-Pad. I really should try motion control again, but hmm... I'm not really sure...

[FishDK]

I did not know of the double tapping your airbrakes. I just press left or right and then the brakes just like in the WO's for the PSX. I'll have to check it out.
I also think I will change the layout to L1 and R1. the other buttons are too springy.

I use Square for acceleration, X for shooting and triangle for absorbing weapons while O is for look behind.

I was never good at pitch control, just used it to not slam my nose into the ground when flying off a high spot, but seing that most of you guys use it a lot, I should get more into it, or else I will be sucking up you guy's dust and exhaust on the tracks!

I don't like the shaking of the HUD when you crash. It's annoys me to no end, but I can't find a feature to disable it.

[Rubix42]

I haven't tried any motion controls yet, but I certainly enjoy the DS3 joystick for some reason, that is the last thing I thought I would be saying right now.

[Lion]

I've been experimenting quite a bit with my controls so far.

I am finding L2/R2 travel too much to be suitable as airbrakes. need to move it to L1/R1
If I try to use pitch only sixaxis controls, it feels messed up. it's like the opposite of a negcon
sixaxis control at default sensitivity (haven't fiddled with that yet) feels a LOT better than expected. though when I tried it at rapier I started to feel like I seriously need to make it more sensitive
I'm starting to wish there was some way to have a separate device in my left hand for air brakes when using sixaxis controls.. scary though it is, I think a wiimote and nunchuck would be great controllers for HD

and in non-controls news, this is the first wipeout game where I've found myself preferring the nose camera over a close chasecam

[Mad-Ice]

I tried full motion control with internal view and did I suck big time! Slamming into walls and finishing last with AI on hardest! Then tried external view with only pitch on sixaxis and D-pad and luckely finishing first.

Does anybody tried full motion control with a nice setting? And what are they?

[Task]

I did not know of the double tapping your airbrakes. I just press left or right and then the brakes just like in the WO's for the PSX. I'll have to check it out.Definitely do. Sideshift was one of the many fantastic innovations that Pure added to the game. I started out not using it too much, but very quickly I was really relying on it. Now I try to sideshift in WO1. 8 P



I was never good at pitch control, just used it to not slam my nose into the ground when flying off a high spot, but seing that most of you guys use it a lot, I should get more into it, or else I will be sucking up you guy's dust and exhaust on the tracks!8 D It's not that huge of a difference!
Well, in HD it shouldn't be anyway. In Pulse it's a pretty big difference. Pitch control has sometimes been very good for cornering, but mostly it's just been for smooth landings.



I don't like the shaking of the HUD when you crash. It's annoys me to no end, but I can't find a feature to disable it.The feature you're looking for is called Pilot Assist! 8 D

[Sausehuhn]

Just wanted to say:
it's awesome how well pitching with the motion sensors works. It's just awesome!!

Some 90° turnes, combined with airbraking/shifting make a lot more fun now (they're still not easy, though). I'm really surprised how well it works and how much of a difference pitching the nose up in a turn makes.
It was always so busy for me to press left, right, up and down with the D-Pad which resulted in left-right only. Now with the sensors, steering all four directions is really enjoying.

[eLhabib]

i don't like the shaking of the hud when you crash. It's annoys me to no end, but i can't find a feature to disable it.
the feature you're looking for is called pilot assist!


lol! :D

[Ota]

The feature you're looking for is called Pilot Assist! 8 D

It even makes it possible to get along the track by just using thrust and airbrakes. What a feature... :?

[Rubix42]

All of us know Pilot assist is pretty silly, but think of it this way. My wife (a non-gamer) played last night with it on, and decided to keep playing. She called it her "training wheels" and wants to keep playing and get to the point where she can take the training wheels off and still enjoy the game.

So the feature has made at least 1 new fan.

[Ota]

Sure you're right there. Good way to describe it, and certainly cleverer than bouncing about the way I do at some tracks atm. :g

[G-Hob]

Yeah a few of us did G-Hob, but you can fix it in the control options by setting it to 10% acceleration sensitivity (which is max) so it basically always gives you full power

Thanks, that great news. Not that I expect to get a PS3 & WO:HD till next year, heh.

[captain howdy]

I originally tried playing it with motion controls (pitch and steering) but I just couldn't get it to feel natural. It was hard for me to gauge how precisely my movements were translating into the degree I turned. The minute I switched to the analog stick, I was comfortable.

As for the other controls, after playing the game for a few hours, my hand started cramping. I tweaked a few things so the buttons weren't so crowded and didn't rely on the face buttons so much:

L2+R2 - air brakes
L1 - use/fire pickup
R1 - absorb pickup
Square - accelerate

This way, I can use five fingers to press five buttons, as opposed to three fingers with my thumb doing triple duty. And I moved accelerate to square simply because it lets my thumb reach more so it's not as bent... it's all about my hands not being cramped. Works great so far.

[GTAce]

L2+R2 - Airbrakes
L1 - - - Chat
R1 - - - Fire
[]- - -- Absorb
O - - -- Look back
X - - -- Accelerate
/\ - - -- Camera

[Yome NetSan]

Hi there !

[MY LIFE]When I started playing Mario Kart Wii exclusivly with the WiiWheel, it felt great to me and hoped for a F-Zero with the WiiWheel. But now I have better : wipEout HD !![/MY LIFE]
I'm using full motion controls combined with the regular left stick. That's a great idea from Liverpool studio to let the stick functionnal while the full motion controls are enabled !
This way I use motion controls to turn a little anduse both in hard turns ! It feels completly natural for me !
I didn't change the air breaks button As i like the analogic touch of the L2/R2 triggers. Really useful in Zone.
I just change thrust to Square, weapon to X, Absorb to O and change view to Triangle (as I don't use it).

I also add a funny issue during my first tracks as for some unknown reason I turned the thrust sensitivity to 100% in the option Menu. I didn't know the face button was analogic !!! Know I know it's the case also on the DualShock 2 but I've never realised that before !
So I lost my 2 or 3 first course as my thrust were mearly at 30% all the time... I wasn't puching the button strong enough !!

I also agree about the pilot assist beeing very usefull for newcomers. I played with 2 friends who never playd wipEout before and it was far more pleasant for them !

[leungbok]

Ha ha, i did exactly the same (100% trust and also 100% airbrakes's sensitivity) i started to depress when i realized that the buttons were analogic. I'm worse than you because i knew that feature (i simply forgot it!)
With only 10% sensitivity on both thrust & AB, i found moral :g

[Asayyeah]

Dpad/ internal view / no motion sensor ( but pitch may be interesting to test) airbrakes with R1/L1

[Sausehuhn]

Asa, you definitley should give motion sensor pitch control a try! While you pitch with the motion sensor, you can focus on steering only with the use of the D-pad. It works like a charm!

[eLhabib]

And you know what else, Arnaud? You should definitely give ANALOG controls a try! I know, I know, you're oldschool (VERY OLD SCHOOL :P) but still, it's so much smoother than Dpad!

[blackwiggle]

I use the D-Pad mainly because that's the control method I learn't to play WO when there was no other option.

I'd like to use the analog stick,but I've always found that it is just too tall for me to be as precise as using the D-Pad,if they made one that was half the height I'd probably switch to the stick.

Regarding the L2-R2 for air bakes,too spongy so put it back where they have always been.

I also tried the sixaxis motion control, and like somebody else mentioned there is a lag of a few 100ms,it doesn't sound much but it's enough to throw you out of kilter on a fast game like WO.

Now that we have online play,I find it easy to pick if another player is using a D-Pad over the analog stick just by the movement of their craft.

One other thing,On WOHD there is no way of dispensing with a particular control altogether like you could in previous WO's,you have to assign everything even if you have no intention of using it.

I find this particularly irritating, as the way I prefer to assign my controller means that I have to assign the rear view control to either L2 or R2, and the amount of times that I have just brushed those sensitive buttons against my leg means I'm suddenly in rear view,and that can really throw you.

The same problem exists with suddenly finding your forward view changing from it's default,I mean who switches from say Internal to close or far views mid race? Nobody....that option should be left in the games menu system,not HAVING to be assigned a button that you can possibly hit by mistake.

Please SL, if you are reading this could you make an option where WOHD's games controls need NOT be assignable, or, turned off or locked.

It would make me a far less frustrated old AG racer.

[Rubix42]

I have camera change mapped to select. I never accidentally hit that.

[eLhabib]

So you can't leave functions unassigned? Ever tried mapping Triangle to something else, leaving camera unassigned, and accept the controls like that? Doesn't work?

[Lion]

don't forget the L3 and R3 buttons (click the sticks)
they're good places to map rarely used functions as they aren't as easy as most buttons to bump
I currently have look behind on L3, but am finding myself bumping that on the chicane near the end of ubermall, will have to move to R3 I think.

[blackwiggle]

So you can't leave functions unassigned? Ever tried mapping Triangle to something else, leaving camera unassigned, and accept the controls like that? Doesn't work?

It doesn't work,although as suggested I have just mapped rear view to R3 so at least's that one of the problems sorted.

I tried putting camera to be mapped to select, but it's no go with that as the game won't recognize it.

And I don't want to map camera anywhere near the left analog stick/L3,as I occasionally use the stick for nose up.

You still can't have unassigned controls.

Down at the bottom of the controls page you have [Accept/Cancel/Default]
If you leave a control unassigned the Accept disappears from the screen and won't reappear until all controls are assigned.

There lies the dilemma

I hope this can be sorted with a update/patch.

[Miths]

Camera on the select button should work. I've had mine mapped like that from day one.

[blackwiggle]

I'll try it again then with another controller,if you have it working then it should work for me.:+

[Norfolk'n'Clue]

One thing I would like is to be able to map controls to the dpad, like thrust etc when using the controller in motion steer mode.

[Asayyeah]

Max and Martin : i'd like to know what kind of pourcent you applied for pitching.
I tested last night after a Bday party from a friend at the center : ipss:beeripsss:beer : i know your brain need to be used to learn 2 different actions done in 1 time : like with Neggie you can twist and pitching separatly so does your brain : it needs to ' accept ' to do it without thinking at what you are doing ( if you lost by what i said : no problem i am also loosing my mind :D )
I am still faithfull in my OLD SCHOOL psp learning but who never knows if i am gonna be slower than most of you i shall think to adapt myself : but times haven't come yet :P

[eLhabib]

I have the pitch control motion sensor on 60% sensitivity. Basically, what I did was see how quickly I can pitch up and down with the stick, and then adjust the motion sensor until it works as fast as analog.

[Asayyeah]

Thx mate i will test that during this coming weekend :)

[lunar]

I understood you Arnaud, and I agree that our brains have to learn this new combination of movements. You can "teach old dogs new tricks", but it takes time. :coffee

I think pitch on motion control is the way forward. I have managed a few times to get the timing right on the pitch control to smooth a nasty bump while turning the ship, just like Silverstream with a neggie, though the timing of the nose up is different and we will have to learn it, and it isn`t quite that good a control method. :)

[Asayyeah]

You can "teach old dogs new tricks", but it takes time. :coffee

LOL this is exactly what i wanted to say i just changed in my mind 'dog' by 'monkey' ( suits me perfectly :P )

I think i am gonna try to learn the tracks first with my antique technique and see what happend next :)

[Flashback Jack]

Just curious, but why does it sound like pitch is so pre-eminently important this time around? How have the mechanics of HD changed so much over Pulse that makes pitch more something to consider?

- F

[Rapier Racer]

HD feels floatier than Pulse to me. It matters on some tracks a lot more than other obviously but if you play with the Elite AI and don't nail the pitch control you get your ass handed to you big time.

[lunar]

After a bitter and painful struggle with my inner stick-user, I have finally decided to opt for d-pad on HD. If it`s good enough for the Mad bad pad man it`s good enough for me. I think it`s better for sharp turns, and with a bit of practice I should be able to get all that tip-tap-tapping for small corrections :D My mind needs to be re-programmed, but better to do it now I think.

I have a few questions about controlling HD that I think need clearing up:

Are L1/R1 at all pressure sensitive? If using them for brakes is there any difference between braking sensitivity settings?

Is a Dualshock 3 dpad pressure sensitive? Is a Sixaxis dpad pressure sensitive?

Did anything come of the rumour that the controller would vibrate to show when pitch is wrong? Anyone noticed this?

I actually prefer the game without vibration and would turn it off if possible and if it has no practical use, or just use my old Sixaxis.

Another question about techniques: do people generally use sideshift less at Phantom class than slower speeds? On Flash, I often steer almost too far out of a corner, then use sideshift to propel the ship into a straight line. Hope that makes sense. It`s kind of altering your normal line in order to use sideshift. Does anyone else use this technique on Flash, but not on Phantom, or does anyone else use it at all?:paperbag

[eLhabib]

First off - if you think Dpad is more accurate for steering, go for it! Personally, I just wouldn't want to adapt to harsh digital input, as opposed to smooth analog control - even if that means I won't be as perfect.

Answering some of your questions:

Yes, L1/R1 are fully pressure sensitive. Even finer than L2/R2, imho, because they are not as springy.

The Dpad is, as the name suggests, digital - not sensitive.

The rumor that the DS3 vibrates when pitch is wrong pretty much proved to be nonsense, sadly...

I believe you can turn off the DS3 rumble in the XMB, if the game itself doesn't allow it.

Concerning your Sideshift question: I can't really say if I would use it more on lower speeds, since I don't race lower speeds ever since I finished campaign. I do, however, use sideshift very often, but mostly to get the last bit of a turn, rather than re-adjusting my raceline after a turn...

[GTAce]

The Dpad is, as the name suggests, digital - not sensitive.
Thats wrong, its also pressure sensitive just like in the DualShock 2.

I changed my controls again btw. im now accelerating with [], absorb with /\ and change the cam with X.

[eLhabib]

Really? Are you sure about that? If you press a direction on the Dpad, the ship does exactly the same movement no matter how hard you press (as long as the time you press it is the same)... :?

[Larikun]

D-pad actually means directional pad, but elhabib is correct, it is digital, I just literally tried to turn with it, and it's definitely digital.

[rdmx]

How on earth do you get any sort of analog input with the d-pad anyway?

[Darkdrium777]

The rumor that the DS3 vibrates when pitch is wrong pretty much proved to be nonsense, sadly...Uhh it does rumble when you're nosing down when on Sebenco Climb Forward... That's incorrect pitch pretty much. If you pitch up it will rumble less. Play that and you'll see... ;)

[GTAce]

D-pad actually means directional pad, but elhabib is correct, it is digital, I just literally tried to turn with it, and it's definitely digital.
Maybe its like that in WipEout, need to try it out in another game again, but yeah, im very sure its pressure sensitive (like the other front buttons too).

[eLhabib]

Uhh it does rumble when you're nosing down when on Sebenco Climb Forward... That's incorrect pitch pretty much. If you pitch up it will rumble less. Play that and you'll see... ;)

Yeah, it rumbles because your nose actually touches the floor when the track goes steeply upwards.

[Darkdrium777]

Not necessarily. I've had it rumble when going over a small hill, for example at the second left turn going up, it rumbles on the hill onto the second right turn. If you adjust pitch correctly (i.e. Nose up when going up, then down for the small hill until the right turn which goes up to the drop back down in the tunnel), it will not rumble, or considerably less. ;)

[Skvall]

Im pretty sure the Dpad is pressure sensitive. Maybe not programmed that way in WOHD but the controller itself should be.

And it would be weird not to use that in WOHD imo. :S

[chboing]

hi there, i just re-read this conversation, and have a question for you.

I use analog steering & pitching, but i have the feeling it does react like this: http://chboing.free.fr/question.PNG

am i wrong ? is it like 100% left & 100% pitch down in the last case ?
if i am right, do you have a setting advice to change this ? (i have the basics setting, never changed anything)

this is typically the position of my analog pad in the f***g left turn in chenghou project, you know this bouncing one, before the tunnel & open section

[Lance]

.
The above post reminds me that the odd thing about the recent application of the language filter to posting is that more people now type in the letter sequence f,u,c,k+ing than ever did before. The word [approximation> f,u,c,k+ing used to appear only rarely here in any form, so when it did, it tended to actually mean something. A curious result of the change.
.

[eLhabib]

... *sighs*

[Darkdrium777]

A curious result of the change.Why does it ****ing matter? :lol

On topic: Well, I wouldn't know about your problem chboing (nice username by the way), because I use sensors to pitch and D-Pad to fly ;) But in other games I have noticed the same effect as you describe, and as far as I know that's how the gamepad is made so there is no real thing to change that.

PS: Lance, you don't need to answer I'm just teasing you xD Hopefully you don't take it wrong... :paperbag

[eLhabib]

Well it matters to me, because it takes a lot more to swear if the words are actually spelled out on screen, it just gets a lot more meaning behind it than 4 asteriks. Now, everyone is saying it without actually saying it, and everybody is throwing it around, because hey, he's not being rude anyway, right? Another perfect example of how censorship makes the world a lesser place... :(

...and don't worry, I got the irony in your comment ;)

[Lance]

I do not like teasing; I regard it as a form of sadism, however disguised; but there are levels and levels.

-------

There is a sort of dishonesty to communications done under censorship; I think people should say what they mean and take any consequences. However, rather than just venting emotion, I always prefer that people clearly articulate exactly what any problem is, so that it may best be solved. It's my engineer mentality that makes me think that way, I suppose. I dislike innuendo and hinting. They're even worse in online text than they are in actual face-to-face verbal expression.

--------

But I seem to be taking the thread away from its topic. Naughty naughty moderator.

--------

I would really be in favour of a motion sensing controller, held in both hands for a racing game, if only it had almost no "deadspace" in the center position so that it would react instantly to movement. I see no reason why that couldn't be implemented, nor why it should not be adjustable to the user's preferences. Is the the six-axis motion adjustable at all in HD?

[Darkdrium777]

Yeah I agree, I was just using the word for the sake of using it, nothing else. I usually don't swear (Except with some games... ).

You can adjust Motion Sensor sensitivity in HD so it reacts more quickly to movements, however there is a certain ''lag'' between the moment you move the controller and it reacts on the screen. You could try and get used to that, but I know I wasn't able to. That's why I've set it to pitch only, since I never pitch ''halfway up'' or ''halfway down'', I've put it to 100% and with just a small re-orientation of the controller I got to full pitch.

[chboing]

I do not like teasing;

i love it



There is a sort of dishonesty to communications done under censorship; I think people should say what they mean and take any consequences.

i think people should think about consequences before saying/doing things ...

----
too bad if it's really like you say Darkdrium, i guess it's logical, but i cant figure myself going back to the d-pad :(
we need a square analog pad !!

Elhabib, you don't have any opinion on the subject ? i saw that you were a user of the analog stik too ?

[Lance]

Consider the consequences of teasing me. Then consider them carefully. Then don't do it. :D

-----------

Xavier, so it's a data transmission lag? grrrrr The response to control inputs should be instant; I would have thought that the lightspeed transmission by infra-red would be quick enough. And so should direct electrical connection. I wonder where the lag originates.

[eLhabib]

I think the lag doesn't stem from the data transfer controller to console, it is caused by the actual sensor that measures the angle of the controller. I don't know exactly how it works, but the controller has to be in a different position for more than a couple of miliseconds for the sensor to 'notice'. Try rolling the controller all the way in one direction and then back to the initial position real quick. If you do it fast enough, nothing at all will happen in game. That should not be this way :(

And no, I haven't noticed the issues chboing mentioned. Even with pitch all the way up or down (motion controlled), my craft still turns full force left or right (analog controlled) - at least it seems that way. Some turns, like the Chenghou hairpin, simply can't be negotiated at phantom speed simply by turning into them. You need some heavy airbraking and sideshifting for that.

[chboing]

oh i see, since your using motion control for the pitch you shouldnt have this problem, if it's a real problem and not just my imagination