SEGA SATURN vs SONY PLAYSTATION for WipEout

[Wip3ou7]

I've been playing WipEout since the day it came out on both the SONY PlayStation and also the SEGA SATURN. Recently I got a neGcon for my PSX and its awesome with WipEout. I also recently aquired another working SEGA SATURN and I have been playing WipEout on it all day. I must say that I really feel that the SEGA SATURN version of WipEout is superior to the SONY PlayStation version of the game.

The SEGA version has faster gameplay (much faster, not just a little bit), with floatier physics, brighter graphics, better control, louder crisper sound, and even has different songs on the sound track. I haven't compaired song lists side by side so Im not sure if songs from the SONY version are missing on the SEGA version, but I did notice that there were some songs on the SEGA version which are not on the SONY version.

Not all is better on the SATURN, the game's frame rate is slightly lower and so is the texture resolution. However the game seems to have extra artwork here and there during loading screens and menu screens, and the game also appears to have extra background elements in the form of geometric objects that are trackside here and there. Colliding with the sides of the track seems to slow you down less on the SEGA, and it's easier to fly above or below another contender. The PSX version of the game has superior transparentcy effects for smoke trails and such, and also has better sound modulation (on Altima IV on the PSX when you reach the apex of the huge climb, the sound of the game and music becomes resonated, the SAT version has no such effect).

I haven't had the pleasure of trying out WipEout 2097 on the SEGA SATURN but I definately will make that a goal of mine to obtain one.

[RJ O'Connell]

Hmm.

Tantalus. That's a foreign name.

(watching YT footage of Saturn WO.)

[Lance]

The solution to being tantalised is moderately easy in this case; one can just buy a Saturn and the WO for it. Hmm.... spare cash, transport, fiiiiiinding a copy..... hmmm......

[RJ O'Connell]

The only disadvantage I can see is the total lack of multiplayer of ANY form.

[AG-wolf]

Both games:
Cairodrome
Cardinal Dancer
Cold Comfort
Doh T
Messij
Operatique
Tentative

Saturn Exclusive
Brickbat
Planet 9
Poison

PSX exclusive
Transvaal

as far as the NTSC titles go. I know in PAL territories, the PSX version got Afro-Ride, Chemical Beats, and PETROL.
--------------------

RJ: Multiplayer in the original felt relatively uninspired anyway, no huge loss. Though I still dont know if anyone has tried linking two saturns to see if the two player option appears, but I doubt it would work ;P

I Played the demo of Wipeout 1 back when the PSX came out, but that was fleeting. I got my hands on a copy of the Saturn version, and that was truly my first Wipeout "experience" It was followed by XL on Playstation, then 64, 3, etc... I only got a chance to play the PSX version of WO1 years AFTER playing the Saturn one, and I was horrified. Despite a lower framerate and grainier textures on the Saturn version (and yes we all know the saturn's transparency caveats), everything else about the PSX version pales in comparison. Tantalus REALLY tweaked the game and made it a much more enjoyable experience (btw RJ, videos on youtube won't do it justice, though I DO have a crappy VHS-recorded video of me playing Terramax on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufJ7tm20Ac )

Wip3ou7: If you DO try to find the saturn version of XL/2097, I'm giving you a warning- It's a TOTALLY different game than the PSX one. It's not bad, but it's a lot different when you're comparing htem side by side. THe fact that the saturn can even RUN it is a feat in and of itself, and it's actually good once you get accustomed to it, but it's a big adjustment. Make sure you at least find XL and run it on an NTSC Saturn or modify your PAL machine with the 50hz/60hz switch, because playing the game at PAL speed is a JOKE. Both the PAL 2097 and NTSC-J XL versions have been optimized for their own respective territories, so it's important to play them at the proper speed.

[Wip3ou7]

I'm an american, my sat is ntsc. I'm suprised I'm not the only person that feels that the saturn version is superior. I was expecting alot of defensiveness since most WO fans can be pretty die-hard about the playstation brand. But it's true, wipeout on the saturn is awesome. And Im also pretty amazed to see that the SAT version has a more complete soundtrack than the PSX version.

[lunar]

I haven`t played the Saturn version so I can`t comment, and it`s far too late for Sony v Sega fanboy flamewars ;) So I`m happy to take your word for it :)

Can I ask this.... does your Saturn version have yellow writing on the menu graphics and HUD, or red writing? The "Press Start" is the first place you see the colour used.

I`m trying to work out what version I have from the PSN download. The Pal Playstation and Saturn originals have red writing, but the Euro PSN download has yellow, as does the NTSC Playstation original disc.

I think the PSN version could be the NTSC original version made to work on PAL (don`t understand how that would work) or some other version perhaps based on the Saturn one. The only thing that makes me think the second possibility is that the handling on the PSN one is quite a lot different, the brakes don`t pull as hard and the heavy ships have a much tighter turning circle. Also you mentioned a greater sense of speed on the Saturn version. Not sure about the technical problems I might be ignoring here!

Also the PAL original disk version looks like sh*t compared to the PSN version, which is all smoothed and nice looking in comparison. Having said that PAL original is still my favourite version that I`ve tried - it has the most satisfyingly heavy handling.

[RJ O'Connell]

Could we see a new WO time trial challenge in the works? :g

[lunar]

I`d be up for that, but would rather go for PSP/PS3 versions as I can`t be bothered to get my old consoles out of the cupboard atm. Shocking laziness...... but it could be d-pad-tastic!

Wip3ou7, do you find it possible to get super-turbo starts on the Saturn version?

Playing the PSN version on my PSP I haven`t got just one, ever, yet can nail them pretty frequently with the original discs in PAL and NTSC. Either they don`t exist or there`s a different method. Or I sucked when I was trying, there is that possibility too.

[AG-wolf]

Lunar: the Yellow/red text thing in the PAL/NTSC PSX/Saturn versions annoyed the crap out of me... I thought there was a standard where red text meant Saturn and PSX PAL, and yellow mean PSX NTSC, but when we were up at Al's place in april, there were both NTSC and PAL versions for Playstation and if I recall correctly BOTH regions could have EITHER color. It may have something to do with the greatest hits/original release thing, no idea.

Wip3ou7: then the two Wipeout versions you're gonna want are the ones I've pictured in the attached image. Both are NTSC-optimized. WO1 supports the digital pad (try the US controller before the japanese one, it seems better suited than the jap pad) and the Saturn wheel (no pitch control). WOXL supports the digital pad, the 3D Analog pad (triggers are also analog so they can be your airbrakes or one can be accel), and the Saturn wheel (again, no pitch control)

Also, lunar, im not speaking for Wip3ou7 but I know I can get turbo starts on the Saturn version just fine. As far as the PSX versions go, the ones from the Playstation store are nothing more than disc images of the original games... I converted my PSX discs to PSP (custom firmware) and I still have no problem getting the turbo start. I typically use Auricom, and I'll press the gas JUST after the announcer says "one." The accel/momentum bar builds up and when the announcer says "go" it's almost always right at the turbo-start point.... This is what I do for the NTSC version though, not sure if the timing is the same on the pal version.

[Wip3ou7]

Hmm I've never seen a turbo start in the original wipeout, only a "smooth" start when the throttle is in the right part. The text in the SAT version is red. Also, WipEout doesn't support the 3D Nights controller, I have it and I've tested it extensively, it just won't work with wipeout.

[lunar]

thanks for the answers Wip3ou7 and Wolf :)


not sure if the timing is the same on the pal version.

On Pal you have to hit thrust a millisecond sooner after "1" than you do on NTSC. It takes a little adjustment when switching versions and on NTSC I have to make myself wait a bit. NTSC turbo starts are marginally easier I think. When I use a neggie I could just use the analogue buttons and make it easy, but I prefer to use "B" for thrust. Maybe it`s the PSP/Sixaxis button travel throwing my timing off.

Thanks for the info about the yellow/red text. When trying to work out which version you have, this sounds like it could be a red herring (or a yellow one maybe) :paperbag

I agree the PSN version are just disc images of something, and nobody will have worked at making these games any better for PS3, but the one I have is not just a straight disc image of the PAL or NTSC original discs that I have. There are differences in AI behaviour too. On PAL original you get a massive speed boost when the AI ram or block you, but this doesn`t happen on the PSN or NTSC versions. On NTSC original the AI block you a lot more than PAL, but you don`t get the speed boost. On my PSN version I don`t think they block in the same way, and they don`t seem to actually kill your speed when they block you.

Maybe North America and Europe get different PSN Wipeouts? What`s the music track list on the NA PSN version?

I`d also be interested to know times differences and whether PSN versions could produce the same times all around the world. If someone could run a Venom TT lap of Altima on NA PSN, using the turbo after the last left hander, for instance, I`d be grateful to know what approximate time you`d get for a perfect lap in these conditons.

I looked at your Saturn video - yes that is tremendously fast :eek but they have made the walls a little kinder to compensate.

[AG-wolf]

Wip3ou7
I didn't say Wipeout 1 supported the 3D Analog, only XL does, but they BOTH support the Saturn wheel. Hell, it's even in the XL manual :P

lunar: there are STARK differences between the PAL and NTSC versions of each game (not just the 50/60hz stuff); AI, collission detection, all sorts of stuff... and one thing in the PAL version that they "fixed" with the NTSC version was if you happen to ram an AI opponent, your ship gets kind of stuck to their's and pulled off to one direction.

I don't know if sony released the same version for PSN across the world... that might be something to look into.

Also, I may upload more saturn videos eventually, but I Need a video cable that has BOTH RCA and S-vid output so I can run the RCA to my tv and the S-Vid to my computer.

[KevInCal]

I started Wipeout with the original on the Playstation in 1996. I didn't play the Saturn version until about 2004. Maybe it's because I was so used to the PS version, but I liked the PS version better. The main thing for me was the controls. The original PS pad plays like a dream whereas I had problems with the Saturn pad. It just didn't feel as intuitive. The graphics, the Saturn version looks noticeably grainier than the smooth looking PS version. I didn't notice much of a speed difference at all except for the powerboost being overly powerfull in the Saturn version. I just like the overall feel of the PS version better.

[AG-wolf]

Kev: which controller were you using on the saturn? The japanese style pad or the original US/UK launch model? THe US controller seems better suited for the gameplay style of wipeout than the japanese pad

[Darkdrium777]

I'll try to do your time thing lunar, PSN version on PS3, Canada so NTSC ;) I'll report back here.

1.14.2 PL with AG-Sys all turbo pads no boost at the start (Can't get them). Compare away. :)

[KevInCal]

Kev: which controller were you using on the saturn? The japanese style pad or the original US/UK launch model? THe US controller seems better suited for the gameplay style of wipeout than the japanese pad

I was using I believe the US controller. The one with the funky D-pad. Actually I may have used both styles iirc as I had 2 different Saturn pads. Honestly I didn't play Wipeout on the Saturn much. I think I may have run through it and beat it once or something. It is of course a very solid game on the Saturn and I did like it, I just have a soft spot for the PS version. :)

[AG-wolf]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4G63E9C4

recorded a quick and crappy run of me playing Terramax just so people can get an idea of what the game is like. I hit walls, I slide into ****, it's a bad run, I make no claims to the contrary :P

[lunar]

thanks Xavier, I can`t get turbo starts on my PSN version either, so there won`t be any difference there.....


well I didn`t get so close to your time even with a decent lap, still 3 seconds behind you, so it could be that, on PS3, PAL versions are still slower than NTSC or that I suck with a dpad; probably a bit of both. I suppose that when outputting a PS1 game on my system the PS3 is still working as a PAL machine and will continue to produce slower times like it does with PS1 consoles. I don`t quite understand how it all works..... :dizzy

[love9sick]

I have played both and found the Saturn version to be a bit sharper but I preferred the PSX controller for Wipeout. Though I have not spent enough time with the Saturn version as compared to the PSX version and now I recently got the downloaded PSX original Wipeout from the PSN network so I don't believe I will be searching through all my CDs anymore to play the original CD version. I also had the PC version but my monitor didn't do it justice.

[Lance]

The original PC version is graphically inferior to the PSX console version; it wasn't your monitor's fault.

[AG-wolf]

Is there any way to get that running on say a current machine's hardware? I've got the CD kicking around somewhere but could never get it going on my machine. Does it have specific video card requirements? Boot into dos?

[love9sick]

The game requires pretty old drivers and DOS. I could not get it to run on my machine, doesn't matter really to me but if you really are intent on running it on your PC than I think you should look for some software that simulates windows 95 or older compatibility and DOS. Even than I am not sure if you will be successful in booting the game up.:dizzy

[Lance]

One could acquire a computer 'tower' from the era that has a 166 MHz Pentium. I have one of those, but I don't bother because I much prefer to play it on the console.

I got the 166 as a freebie in 2005. People throw the things away; you don't have to buy them.

[G'Kyl]

I'd never throw my 200MHz/MMX-Voodoo 2-Soundblaster 16-DOS AND Win95 computer away! ;) Built it up after compatibility through current Windows version became a pain in the back. Messing with emulator values etc. is nothing compared to the real thing!

But then, of course, there is neither neGcon nor record tables for PC WipEout, so I don't ever play it on that monster system. :)

Ben

[RJ O'Connell]

I remember PC WipEout and its' abnormal ship colours. Kel Solaar will always be the green racer to me, no matter how orange they made his ship in the DOS version.

Another fun fact: The initials of the default top record holders at Silverstream, Single Race, Venom - the initials put together from 1st to 5th place spell "Hand Tossed Pizza." Of course they always end up spelling "RJO RJO RJO RJO RJO" at some point. ;)

But a 166 Pentium is not a Sega Saturn, so we should go back to discussing the latter at some point. XD

[lunar]

"Hand Tossed Pizza" - Awesomest Wipeout trivia of the year! All of my records end up saying, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, but I should try to add RGH in fifth place. I am going to have to check the other tracks for similar, one day.

[Hail Seizure]

Lunar: the Yellow/red text thing in the PAL/NTSC PSX/Saturn versions annoyed the crap out of me... I thought there was a standard where red text meant Saturn and PSX PAL, and yellow mean PSX NTSC, but when we were up at Al's place in april, there were both NTSC and PAL versions for Playstation and if I recall correctly BOTH regions could have EITHER color. It may have something to do with the greatest hits/original release thing, no idea.

That's probably it. I have PAL WO1 in both the original and Platinum versions. The original version has red text, and the Platinum version has yellow text.

[DawnFireDragoon]

thank god it's not just me, i noticed the text colour difference a few years ago, when i got a new copy of the original game and thought something was a bit different!!!

probably end up been a collectors item!