Who's a bit dissapointed?

[lochiebrad]

I don't own a PSP so it's been a while since I've seen a new wipeout game... and from the footage I've seen of HD, this is a completely different game to what I know as the wipeout series. I can't really explain it, but to me it feels like i'm watching the new mario kart rather than the wipeout i've always loved.

What I'm asking is does anyone else feel the slightest bit dissapointed that this probably means wipeout will never go back to whatever it was in the original ps1 titles.

Don't get me wrong, HD is what has convinced me I'm going to choose a PS3 over 360 when the time comes, but I can't help but feel a bit let down.

Sorry for the vagueness of this message, perhaps I'll elaborate later when I'm less tired and give examples of what I mean.

[Egg]

...perhaps I'll elaborate later when I'm less tired...
... or, when the game comes out and you have more to go on than a few videos.

[Alex_Se]

I think Wipeout HD is going to be great to be honest, excluding some small things like:
-Low number of tracks/Teams
-The hud.

It's much more realistic and flexible.

[DawnFireDragoon]

i know what egg is saying about pre-judgement, but personally, with wipeout 3, fusion, pure, pulse, i have seem lots of media/demo's pre release and judged the games before playing them on that material. Video's tell you a hell of a lot about the look of a game, the way it plays, the features it has (kANDANG's video's on youtube drew me into buying a psp and pure!). Each time my pre-judgement hasn't been wrong or far off. i don't like the 'look' of HD, it was the same with pulse, but as a big fan of the series i gave it a shot. Pulse is on the very edge, i played it, but disliked quite a lot about it, HD seems to be following in it's footsteps, and you can hate me for saying it but i hate the HUD, did anyone have issues with the one from the early previews? besides it not been bright enough.

i agree that the series has moved away from classic wipeout and for that i am very dissapointed, but i guess we gotta deal with it.

i've given HD some grief because it's not what i want (i'm entitled to be annoyed as i haven't had a good console game of wipeout since wipeout 3: special edition!) but for fans of pulse it's looking good, and the guys working on it, clearly have this direction and design in mind, so hell they've done wonders in that respect, nice graphics, ships that look awesome, even if one in particular is missing. and console versions of the psp tracks so many love.

you can't please them all and they haven't

[eLhabib]

while it may not be what 3SE fans would like, I think it will certainly please the 2097 fans, and of course the pure and pulse fans. As you said, you can't please them all, but the only real issue is the HUD imo. While it probably won't be exactly what everyone wanted, I think that with online multiplayer and superslick 60fps it will definitely be the closest thing to really flying those things.
And it certainly won't be anywhere near the misstep that was Fusion. Actually, I think this could be the game that makes wipEout really popular, which is a good thing.

[blixabargeld]

well, at the beginning (from the first videos i saw) hd seem to me just a reissue of pure/pulse mixed up and shaked with next gen graphics. The hud, which you can like or dislike, reminded me of ps1 wipeouts (it's so '90) and all the game has imho that atmosphere, which i really like. so it may be not as fresh air in the series (but it doesn't want to) but it's a wipeout game at 100%..
just my point of view..

[TheFrostE]

ya , dont get me wrong, i like the old wipeouts as well as the new ones, but 3 and xl... i just cant see those game mechanics really carrying over into a next gen console, wipEout is going next gen, as it should be, the classics are great but you just gotta accept the new wave, true fans of the whole series will appreciate HD for what it is. and yes i also believe that it will make wipEout more popular, which is great. Also if a full on WipEout ps3 comes out sometime in the future, more people will buy it due to HD

[and]

I can see why SL wanted to take the series in a new direction eventually. You can't just do the same game over and over again.

I'm just glad they took a step back with Pure after Fusion. Though Pulse and HD might seem like a step in the wrong direction again, one can always hope that the next game will be even more "Pure" than Pure.

I definitely believe that (after this many years) there is a market for it. I'm sorry but I really can't see why the physics wouldn't suit the today's consoles.

The newer games however are great to... just not with as great physics as the first three. Tough SL really have brought some great innovations like; absorbing weapons, downloadable content and Zone, in my opinion they also brought some bad innovations.

I really would like to see a game where the crafts doesn't vertically align with the track at all times and don't have magstrips or barrel rolls. It would truly be nice if SL would take a step back and try to take the series in another diraction.

[Assimilator]

the only thing that will dissapoint me is if the game is un-controlable like fusion was on the ps2.

I sold my ps2 not long after the fusion dissapointment

if HD is not as fun to control and play as 2097 and wip3out with a negcon on the ps1 then I will be very angry and start send studio liverpool emails to fix it.

As for the look of the game it looks stunning and I think it will be a fine installment as this series has always taken every sony console to the max visualy, need less to say i'm drooling.

P.S. to thoes that don't like the hud, get over it!!!!!!!! you should be watch the road anyway :P who's got time to look at the hud at break neck speed anyway.

[DawnFireDragoon]

hard to avoid it when it consumes so much of the screen, looks like it's from the eighties and shakes/blurs when anything happens! ha ha :)

with regards to the control though, i think they've learn't from fusion how not to do it, pure and pulse handelled pretty well.

[lochiebrad]

Well, I've had some sleep now and can think more clearly.

What I don't like about what I've seen of HD are small things like when you run over a boost pad the whole camera jolts back as if you used the boost powerup, and the ships look like they're hugging the track a lot, especially with the magstrip stuff, so there's bound to be less pitch control than in the original games.

I don't know why, but watching the new footage of mario kart wii, and then looking at HD videos (in 3rd person), the games actually look kinda similar in the way the craft moves... which kills me.

However, the game looks gorgeous and will sell like crazy if they get the price right, so I welcome all new wipers with open arms. You can be assured I will be right there with them online when I buy my PS3, and won't be bitter. I just think that we should all know that the style original wipeout games is now more than likely lost to time, and we should all try to keep the legend alive in our memories.

Anyone know what I'm trying to say?

[Assimilator]

memories my ass,, i've still got my ps1 hooked up with 2097 in the cd tray and negcon connected ready to go for when i feel like a twist. (can't say spin cause they don't have wheels) :P

[lochiebrad]

haha same here! What I mean is, most of us (including me) will move on to the future wipeouts because of online and the pretty graphics. Lest we forget where the legend was born, though.

[infoxicated]

What I don't like about what I've seen of HD are small things like when you run over a boost pad the whole camera jolts back as if you used the boost powerup.
That.

It's pissed me off for months, that has - I hate the camera being ****ed with unless it's really subtle, and that effect is about as far from subtle as it gets.

I asked why a ship in a near frictionless environment would accelerate then decelerate in that manner, too, but there wasn't an answer. Somebody stuck it in at some point, people got used to it and it stayed in.

[TearsToShreds]

Yes, the thing mentioned above is the biggest turn off for me. It's not pretty, it doesn't look like it enhances gameplay nor does it give you a bigger sense of speed. Even though it seems most videos were played in Venom or Flash class, I doubt it'll be any less in higher speed classes.

All in all, it does look pretty, huh? The design of this game is still top notch. Most buyers won't care about anything else, except for the dedicated fanbase. I'm not buying this though, let me just stay that. :) I'll just watch the pretty videos and enjoy that.

[Axel]

Well we have been seeing the old vids. So here is to hoping that SL have taken our criticism and done something about it.

HUD and mario kart speed booster are the two the irks me. Funny enough, I didn;' mind it in Mario Kart. But it doesn't sit well for me in Wipeout.

[Skvall]

I dont like it at all. That is a bigger problem than the HUD judging from the videos. But I hope its not as bad when actually playing the game. Because Im guessing they will keep it in.

[TearsToShreds]

The HUD doesn't look that bad at all, in my opinion. It's just functional, and isn't noticable enough to bother me. I've already accepted the fact that the DR aren't contributing to the series anymore, so an unspectacular HUD isn't too much of a problem.

[TheFrostE]

i highly doubt they will/have fixed the HUD OR the speed boost effect since those videos. im sure they are more focused on the track re-creation, ship design, balanced play, and the online portion. why spend the time on a couple extra features that really arent that bad in the first place, do you play the game to look at the pretty HUD while your racing in phantom? unless your new to WO you really have no need to watch your HUD constantly while racing, whats the point of checking speed? whats the point of checking laps? and if you absorb enough, you should have no problem with shield. my HUD is basically all in my head. so would you rather have them focus more on these silly details and possibly have a poorer online/ overall poor core game? not me!


PS- unfortunately, in the grand scheme of things its about the money for the company, just like everything else out there. they will do what they will to save money and make more money, and its not free to just go back and say "alright all of our fans said to redo this stuff so lets dump more unecassary money into the project and do it their way". they want to make more money, and for people that will be playing wipeout for the first time when HD drops, they arent going to notice any difference between the 90s WO and this one, cuz they havent played them. liverpool will make their money regardless of the die hard fan feedback

[Skvall]

TheFrostE: Thats why I think the boosteffect is more important than the HUD. Its affecting the actual racingexperience more than some information on the screen. But like someone said in another thread It may not be as obvious in Phantom, and when you play yourself, so maybe its not that bad after all.. or maybe it is. We will see I guess hehe.

[TheFrostE]

yes overall if you did have a problem between the two , you should definetly be more concerned with the boost, not HUD, i just dont mind about either

[Rapier Racer]

Well I've been looking forward to HD for ages and until I've played it I can't possibly say if I'm satisfied or disappointed.

The HUD? It's fine and everyone will forget about this 'issue' pretty quickly when the games out I suspect.

Also I don't think it's going to be the game that makes Wipeout really popular simply because its download only so an entire market of people have just been alienated right there. Dunno if anyone took into consideration people with low download allowances, slow connections, no connection?

[TheFrostE]

well to have any sort of internet on your ps3 it has to be at least broadband, which is more than enough to download games no problem from the PSN store from the console. and anyone that has a ps3 with no internet, get with the times and stop being cheap ,the internet features of the system...thats half of what you paid for right there.

[cybrpnk]

Have to agree with the download only aspect of the game creating a segment of the market that is bordering on a little niche...cause not everyone has the internet that we so take for granted... That is why I hope SL will immediately begin work on a proper sequel, new craft, teams, tracks and all for a Blu-Ray format release...

Getting back on topic...

No, I don't feel disappointed in anyway...having grown up with WipEout...(my sole reason I bought a Playstation One in the first place), I believe Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool has evolved the series in a very elegant and extremely appropriate way... Graphics wise and gameplay wise...they have stumble along the way *cough* *Fusion*, but I reckon they have picked up the pieces and re-assembled the anti-gravity speed-infested techno giant we have grown to love...some of the aspect that are gnawwing at me though are things like barrel rolls...apart from that, things like Zone, weapon absorbs and of course the psychedelic new Tron-styled Zone have cemented the series for me, into history, as a game that has always been consistently not only about speed and gameplay and graphics...but also predominantly about style...and HD has loads of it...

[Lance]

well to have any sort of internet on your ps3 it has to be at least broadband, which is more than enough to download games no problem from the PSN store from the console. and anyone that has a ps3 with no internet, get with the times and stop being cheap ,the internet features of the system...thats half of what you paid for right there.

Ya know, it still amazes me that some people think that other people can just decide to spend money that they don't have. Not to mention that they will offer people advice when they don't know enough of those people's situation to be aware of all the factors that must be taken into consideration when a decision has to be made.

To repeat something that apparently can never be said too many times [because it is so often forgotten]:
One person's reality is not everyone's reality. What is true for one person is not true for everyone.

[The Gracer]

That.

It's pissed me off for months, that has - I hate the camera being ****ed with unless it's really subtle, and that effect is about as far from subtle as it gets.

I asked why a ship in a near frictionless environment would accelerate then decelerate in that manner, too, but there wasn't an answer. Somebody stuck it in at some point, people got used to it and it stayed in.

You work for 'em foxxy - it isnt at all possible to talk 'them' into doing a little something about it? (Im sure you could threaten to push a few random red buttons, or something..... ;) heheh) We all know it doesnt belong.

How much say on the final product do the 'bigwigs' have? i have a feeling that they have far too much say over how the final product looks - they are businessmen, not gamers, and in my mind they should just sign the papers and ship the game, without asking questions. In my mind, anyway.

[infoxicated]

I don't work for 'em any more, actually - I left Sony a week or so ago. :)

You've identified an issue, though - people who aren't gamers make sweeping decisions that affect the final product. That's why you get things like download ships you cant use in multiplayer, because those who make that kind of decision don't ultimately give a **** how much it upsets the fans of the game.

Just expect this kind of **** - nothing is sacred in the games industry.

[taqili]

No game will ever be perfect because people are always being listened to.

[lochiebrad]

oh yeah barrel rolls are lame, also. just feeding the fire. The wipeout HD backlash has begun before release!! mwahaha. yeah download only cuts the majority of the market out, which sucks but at least it'll get promoted like all hell in the ps store.

[Lance]

~snip~ nothing is sacred in the games industry.

Nor in any other industry. :(

[TheFrostE]

lance i think i worded myself incorrectly, what i meant was , your spending 400-500$ on a videogame system that makes quite a bit of use on the internet function included with it. take that out and its certainly not worth that 400 500$.you would need a friend with internet to get updates and put them on portable media for you, you have no friends list, no multiplayer only games, o PSN store, no media servers, no chat, no remote play for your psp, and no internet browser obviously. Tell me then without al that stuff, is it worth you 400-500 dollars,maybe that money should be going elsewhere if you cant afford an extra 15 a month for internet.

yes ones reality certainly is not everyones reality, BUT if you own a PS3 chances are you have some sort of internet to support it, simple as that. which means making it download only doesnt really take out a majority at all, due to the fact that most people with PS3 probably have internet with it. and if your young, you can ask mom or dad to get you the game if you give them the money, so they can use their card. and if your 18+ and you still dont have a debt. or credit card...you neeed to see a bank and/or establish some credit for yourself, your not a kid forever

[Axel]

Mate you still don't get it. A lot of people don't care about Internet multiplayer play. Half of my mates that have a Xbox360 do not play online. But they have Internet. They just don't have time for it thats all. They are the "casual" consumer mate. the ones who buy a game they heard of from the shop.

Will be very interesting to see how this game sells.

[TheFrostE]

but they DO have internet, so if it was a ps3 (not a 360) they COULD get wipeout HD, its not multi-player only. it would actually be more convenient for them, download it for cheaper than a game at the shop, right from their couch. and i can understand a lot better someone having a 360 without the internet, for one: you have to pay for a subscription to live (on top of your monthly internet fee) and two:they have much better offline, non-multiplayer games than ps3

either way, yes it will be quite interesting to see how this sells, especially since there are people considering getting a ps3 just for HDs release...rock on wipers!

[Rapier Racer]

How does broadband work where you live? In some countries usage limits are in place and downloading something of this size could seriously eat it up if the said person has a cheaper package that would otherwise be fine for the online gaming, surfing they do etc.

I'm also of the opinion that there will be many kids out there with PS3s in their rooms that aren't hooked up they nor the parents will have a clue.

Also, downloading big files could mean the ISP applies traffic shaping to ones connection which is not nice to say the least and raises the other issue I mentioned of some people having an outright slow connection, who wants to be downloading a game for 3-4-5 hours before they can play it?

None of these issues apply to me I'm just hoping they doesn't hinder sales as far as other people go.

[Lance]

It is not your words that are themselves incorrect; it is the thoughts your words express that are an inaccurate assessment of reality. I am 65 years old; I have a very small fixed retirement income; I have financial responsibilities that you do not have; I have a very different set of priorities and value judgements from those you have. The idea that you could offer accurate and valuable financial advice to me or anyone else who is significantly different from you in their place in life and in their character is just invalid.


lance i think i worded myself incorrectly, what i meant was , your spending 400-500$ on a videogame system that makes quite a bit of use on the internet function included with it. take that out and its certainly not worth that 400 500$.you would need a friend with internet to get updates and put them on portable media for you, you have no friends list, no multiplayer only games, o PSN store, no media servers, no chat, no remote play for your psp, and no internet browser obviously. Tell me then without al that stuff, is it worth you 400-500 dollars,maybe that money should be going elsewhere if you cant afford an extra 15 a month for internet.

yes ones reality certainly is not everyones reality, BUT if you own a PS3 chances are you have some sort of internet to support it, simple as that. which means making it download only doesnt really take out a majority at all, due to the fact that most people with PS3 probably have internet with it. and if your young, you can ask mom or dad to get you the game if you give them the money, so they can use their card. and if your 18+ and you still dont have a debt. or credit card...you neeed to see a bank and/or establish some credit for yourself, your not a kid forever

[TheFrostE]

i didnt know you were older and retired, i may be young, but i do have set priorities and things to get done, maybe not nearly as much as you, but i do understand the value of a dollar, i pay for internet here, i paid and am still paying for my college, which i just graduated last year, i have a full time job , i am on my own insurance health dental and car, i make car payments, and everything gets taken care of before my gaming expenses.

in the end we are from completely different generations , i dont think its right to compare either.

this is wayyyy off topic though , so im all done on this thread for now :p

[lochiebrad]

Mate you still don't get it. A lot of people don't care about Internet multiplayer play. Half of my mates that have a Xbox360 do not play online. But they have Internet. They just don't have time for it thats all. They are the "casual" consumer mate. the ones who buy a game they heard of from the shop.

Will be very interesting to see how this game sells.

'They just don't have the time for it' - Haha and the time to set up a bastard 10m cable seeing as it doesn't have wireless built in.. seriously that's most of my friends' barrier to online console use.

But a true PS3 game on PSN is what... like 5gig? Here in Australia that's a huge chunk if not all of your monthly download fees, plus it would take an entire day to download. Few people I know who can afford to buy and even own PS3 would do that.

[Assimilator]

i'll suck down 5 gig if it's worth it but thats be cause I have an expencive internet plan 20gig peak 40gig off peak for $70, so good of optus to let us keep the old plan.

lochiebrad so good to see another melbournian in here :-)

[rdmx]

Melbournians with expensive internet represent! :dizzy
I'll have to get it at some point, but internet plans are pretty expensive in Australia :brickwall (Although I'm happy that we have broadband in the first place).

I'm lucky i've got a decent amount of net speed though.

Just as an FYI, KANDANG's also a melbournian.

[Darkdrium777]

I wouldn't think WipEout HD to be 5GB. Another PS3 game was released for download, it is a full PS3 game, and weighs in at around 800MB. I am of course talking about Warhawk. It's still quite big, but I would expect HD to be around that as well... They cannot expect someone to go download 5GB for a few hours, so they will optimize it. Also, the fact that Sony Liverpool is making the game adds up to this: how much does WipEout PurE weigh? around 150MB uncompressed ISO. WipEout Pulse? 200MB or around that. And Pulse is one of the most beautiful PSP games. The same can be said with WipEout HD and PS3. Maybe I'm totally wrong in trying to establish this correlation, but maybe I'm right. Hopefully I am because 5GB, even if I have unlimited, is pretty big, especially since my connection is slower to trade off for the unlimited aspect.

[Assimilator]

well the HD tralier is what 250mb for just 1m.30s of video footage so i'm guessing the intro alone will be about that.

[eLhabib]

where did that 5GB rumor come from? they already stated it will be under 1gig, didn't they?

[Skvall]

There are demos on PS Store that are 1.3GB and probably even bigger. GT5 Prologue are around 4-5GB, isnt it? If they have had big sizes until now why would that suddenly change..

But yeah they said the game will be pretty small.

[infoxicated]

where did that 5GB rumor come from?
About five posts above your one - it was a throwaway comment by lochiebrad that, for some reason, seems to have been accepted as fact. :rolleyes:

A glaring example of how internet rumours are so successful - people believe any old bollocks they read on the 'net.

[Colin Berry]

yeah lets end the rumour

Fact

Wipeout HD is less than 1gig, so now you have it from the studio director and the lead designer, so there should be no reason for any more speculative 5gig nonsense

:)

[rdmx]

Great to hear Colin! At least it won't bust such a massive amount of our download quota :)



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Colin reminded me of that ad for some reason :dizzy

[lochiebrad]

Yeah sorry for throwaway 5gig, but I did say it was a guess!

But wow that's pretty amazing that it's under 1 gig... What's all this sony PR rubbish about bluray being the future of games because of how much it can store... it seems that in this age of downloadable content, games are getting smaller.

Back to the point, though; are you going to buy wipeout HD, even if you may find yourself a little dissapointed? What price would you settle for?

FYI for Melbourners I am with TPG 18gig 1.5Mb/s. But they're cheap and give me about 8gig before cutting me off I swear. Plus the ping is a nightmare for some reason so I can't play online easily.

[omega329]

yeah lets end the rumour

Fact

Wipeout HD is less than 1gig,


pre-install or post-install?

[Rapier Racer]

What's all this sony PR rubbish about bluray being the future of games because of how much it can store... it seems that in this age of downloadable content, games are getting smaller

Yeah yeah lets not forget HD is only 8 tracks, short tracks catered to PSP tastes.

[Colin Berry]

After it is installed and it is sitting ready to be played, it is less than 1 gig

As RR says, Some games are small in size, some large, depends on the game

Just because Wipeout is small it doesnt mean blu ray is a 'rubbish PR exercise' thats just bad logic

Of course you dont need Blu ray for tetris, but you cant expect to comfortably download GTA IV or Burnout Paradise for example

[Rapier Racer]

Makes sense when you think about it. I even find it hard to fathom the mysterious PS3 Wipeout thats rumored to be coming at some stage could even half fill a 50 gig Blu Ray disk. No matter what the detail or how uncompressed the audio it just doesn't seem the type of game that will ever need all the space.

Games like future GTAs could potentially fill it due big maps with lots of details etc.

[Sausehuhn]

...and of course games with HD video sequences.

[Darkdrium777]

Note: I was not accepting the 5GB size as fact, I was merely discussing the fact that WipEout HD weighing more than 1GB was quite improbable. Maybe you misunderstood that, but as Colin stated, it doesn't so it turns out I am right, and it should be close to Warhawk's size, which is around 800MB. :) I would be pleasantly surprised if it was less :D

[Linchpin]

Wow that is awesome news that it is less than a gig , woo :D
Thanks Colin for being active in these forums , not many game dev
companies post on fan forums :) .
Anyway back to the topic I am a bit disappointed with the look of the physics
looks like it is too stuck to the floor , but as everyone discussed doesn't look like that good old floatyness will return cos of QA , however we will only truly know what it feels like once it is out . But zone mode has me sold :D

[Colin Berry]

HD is floatier and a little bouncier (not like a bouncy ball) than Wipeout has been for a while. Its not Wipeout 3 floaty, but its more so than Pure or Pulse, especially as you move up in speeds (and of course more than fusion). There are sections in ubermall and in sebenco that allows for a LARGE amount of air time for example.

wow that sounds very tony hawks, air time, how Rad

[Axel]

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Ok this has confirmed the game for me!!! I agree, Wipeout 3 was over floaty lol. But I'm glad the game is returning to it's roots. Now for that HU........ :P

[Skvall]

"Wipeout 3 was over floaty lol"

Is that even possible? ;)

Nice to hear its floatier than both psp games. Goin in the right direction. :+ :)

my ps3 are screaming for some wipeout hd every night

[Darkdrium777]

Thanks Colin! That's really cool, I can't wait for this game :) It's probably the only reason I'm getting a DualShock 3 since the guys at 1Up have mentioned that it rumbles when pitch is incorrect. Can you confirm this?

[Lance]

For my preference, Wipeout 3 was ideal in floatiness.

[and]

Agree, Wip3out had it all right but the feel of the crafts in Pulse is awsome to, in it's own way.

What I truly miss isn't the floatyness, It's the way the crafts didn't vertically align with the track...

[Asayyeah]

liverpool will make their money regardless of the die hard fan feedback
That is why i am not posting much into HD topics.
Don't get me wrong, HD will be surely an awesome game for most of the people here and also casual gamers but i for one to say i am not convinced by the game.
I don't care much about the HUD, i wasn't a big fan of Pulse one and go on thinking SL is working in the wrong direction for HD one.
My main regret is about a loss of friendly moments at home inviting my friends, for what i have heard you won't have split screen idem for Lan, that sucks imho. When other games develop a real friendly interactivity ( cooperation mode, splitscreen till 4 players), for me there's something wrong here in SL politic : they want to open it for more gamers (casual ones) but they restricted the possibilities of fun and happiness : that is weird.
I haven't got a ps3 yet and not sure will buy one when HD will be released.

[Darkdrium777]

Aww man Asa I was looking forward to playing with you online :(

I agree that LAN/Splitscreen play should be included in almost every single game that comes out, but I wouldn't miss out on an excellent game just because it doesn't have it. ;)

[Axel]

To the above, when i mean over floaty, I was talking about WO3SE. WO3 was puuuuuuurty with the level of floatiness :). Still love SE more though, so I'm a bit confused :D

[TheFrostE]

noooooo asa!!!! you have to get it. i agree with dark, it IS a wipeout game, and its not right to miss out cuz of a HUD and offline multiplayer. and you never know, they did say there will be added content and what not, whos to say they wont add aan offline multiplayer component later on. Or even have an option to customize or change your HUD

[Axel]

I really hope they give us two HUDS mate. I can't believe it seems so petty, but to me it makes a huge difference :(

[lunar]

My main regret is about a loss of friendly moments at home inviting my friends, for what i have heard you won't have split screen

I agree totally with that point. Split-screen gaming seems to be dying out, and so it becomes harder for people to actually play games in the same rooms as other people. In the days of the original Xbox I would get together with mates for 4-way split-screen of whatever versions of PGR and Rallisport that were out for that console. The graphics weren`t great because detail was reduced to keep the framerate playable (developers please note that also), but hours of fun were guaranteed with 4 players next to each other on the sofa and on the same race track. Then on the 360 (and PS3) versions of racing games, which are more powerful consoles and should be able to handle more, 2 player split screen seems to be the best on offer, afaict, and sometimes not even that. It`s a real shame. Internet gaming is fun, but it`s not the be all and end all. Surely most PS3 and 360 racers could run on 4 player split screen just by reducing the resolution a bit, or are sharp graphics so holy that this can`t be done?

I can`t say the HD HUD bothers me at all, so long as I can see what lap it is, and how far from blowing up I am ;)

[Linchpin]

HD is floatier and a little bouncier (not like a bouncy ball) than Wipeout has been for a while. Its not Wipeout 3 floaty, but its more so than Pure or Pulse, especially as you move up in speeds (and of course more than fusion). There are sections in ubermall and in sebenco that allows for a LARGE amount of air time for example.

wow that sounds very tony hawks, air time, how Rad

Haha wow , thanks so much for the feedback Colin , really appreciate it . Well at least you guys are heading in the right direction by the sounds of it :)
Can't wait for this title :pirate

[Lance]

..... or are sharp graphics so holy that this can`t be done?


I think that's exactly what's happening. High resolution has become some sort of religious object. Behold the sacred sharper image and be amazed at our superiority over those other game companies. Buy our stuff!

[Egg]

Well, it does take a lot of extra time (and people) to create 'reduced' versions of all the graphics for split-screen modes. Lower-polygon tracks, ships and weapons don't build themselves.

It also requires dedicated programmers and more testing time. It's really not the simple little tweak you all seem to think. Remember, the graphics would have to be reduced enough to efficiently display everything in the one-player game, times two -- or four :/

[taqili]

That's unfortunate. Still, at least Brawl supports 4-player mode and since we want the friends together nature of it anyway, we'll just have our friends buy Wiis and the game :D

HD can be my religious experience~ (as long as Icaras rolls out SOON)

[infoxicated]

wow that sounds very tony hawks, air time, how Rad

Almost as rad as barrel rolls!

I mean, ****ing hell - air time has a **** load more to do with Wipeout than barrel rolls and they're firmly entrenched.

What ever next?

Magnetic strips on the tracks to turn it into a car driving game without wheels?

Oh, wait. :|

[Lance]

...... the graphics would have to be reduced enough to efficiently display everything in the one-player game, times two -- or four :/

Is there no way to run a computer program that would sample the apices [apexes] of the polygons and create a new mesh by using only every second set of apex coordinates [adding one for the last apex of any figure, such as ship or building, at its most extreme dimension]? This would reduce 2d objects to one quarter of the number of apices, sufficient to run four screen splits with the same processor power. 3D objects would be cut to one-eighth the number of apices for any given object size, a major reduction in points to be plotted during movement.

[Bytehawk]

those kind of polygon reduction tools are never good enough. They either need a lot of configuring (what detail must be retained, what detail to lose) or the results need to be tweaked, losing the advantage of such tools.

there just isn't a magic button. All the assets made for this game are to a very high standard. It would be a loss - no pun intended - to confide solely in an algorythm to reduce the weight of all models.

btw - Egg : good job !

[Lance]

I'd still like to know what the Studio Liverpool developers have to say about such programs.

[Egg]

Well, Bytehawk hit the nail really. We've rarely used them, even on years of Formula 1 games. It takes so much fiddling to get decent results you may as well rebuild the objects by hand.

They're quite good for reducing organic characters and smooth landscapes, but pretty ropey for hard-edged mechanical objects with complicated texture layouts ("UVs").

Also (techy alert) once the track surface is reduced it no longer matches the smooth 'collision' mesh, an underlying version of the track (unseen to the player) which the game uses to calculate your ship's position. The result would be ships apparently hitting invisible walls, or sinking into the track, where the two track versions misalign.

[Sausehuhn]

I see the point, but I'm still confused why a machine like the PS2 was able to render 2-Player-Splitscreen.
I know it does not render that much, but then on the other hand it has less power. Especially Fusion had really big levels with a lot of polygons I guess but multiplayer still worked (if I'm not wrong the whole track is rendered in Fusion. That means: If you race Florion Height 1 it also renders Florion Height 2 and 3).
Or was there just enough time for the multiplayer part?

I spend many, many hours in multiplayer, btw. That made an awesome experience. If just the AI would have been better.

[Egg]

Remember Fusion had a much longer development cycle than HD...

[Lance]

Jon, thanks for the reply.

-----

IIRC, the development cycle for W3O was only six months, but they had split screen plus a lot of original content. Does anyone know for sure what the length of that cycle was. I think Wayne Imlach talked about it here on the forums somewhere. I'm not going to look for it now; I shouldn't even be awake. [slept a few hours during the day earlier, no sleep previous night]

[omega329]

BTW, welcome to the zone bytehawk, awesome first post, a new member getting stuck in, that's what I like to see! :clap


I shouldn't even be awake. [slept a few hours during the day earlier, no sleep previous night]
same for me on sat, had a mate round friday night, that's why I was online until some ungodly hour like 6AM, continous boxhead 2play rooms and super crazy guitar maniac deluxe 3 :rock

[mdhay]

After it is installed and it is sitting ready to be played, it is less than 1 gig

As RR says, Some games are small in size, some large, depends on the game

Just because Wipeout is small it doesnt mean blu ray is a 'rubbish PR exercise' thats just bad logic

Of course you dont need Blu ray for tetris, but you cant expect to comfortably download GTA IV or Burnout Paradise for example

Or Oblivion for that matter.

I feel that having the game on a download makes things a lot riskier being that internet access can be stolen, Cut - off, or my personal favourite,
You have been disconnected from the access point.

[infoxicated]

I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that has far more to do with you having a **** internet connection than anything to do with the PlayStation Network, the PS3, downloadable content, or WipEout HD.

[mdhay]

True, that could be it.

[infoxicated]

IIRC, the development cycle for W3O was only six months, but they had split screen plus a lot of original content. Does anyone know for sure what the length of that cycle was.
W3 was well over a year - it was shown off at the E3 the year before it came out in primitive form. The videos are on IGN.

W3SE was a six month tart up of old tracks shoe-horned into W3 before they closed the Leeds Studio down to fund The Getaway, so maybe that's where you're getting the six month cycle thing from.

Either way, comparing a mature PS1 development cycle with the 1st iteration of a PS3 development cycle is just so far off base it's not funny. The timescales, effort and costs have gone up exponentially in the last nine years.

[Lance]

But do they pay the individual workers any more than they did in 1999?

[taqili]

Definitely yes. Adjusted for inflation? Still yes, I would assume. The videogame business has grown a lot even in the past 9 years -- real wages should have risen as well.

by the way, off-topic much?

[Egg]

But do they pay the individual workers any more than they did in 1999?


Definitely yes.
It varies depending on the company. Some guys I know in the industry are on surprisingly low money, considering their skills and the long hours many companies demand.

[taqili]

I'd assume they have to pay more money considering inflation has risen so much since '99. That's why I said real wages are maybe, but nominal wages are definitely higher.

[omega329]

hell, you could pay me chocolate and strawberry muffins, I'd love to work in the games industry.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Chocolate AND muffins? Who do you think you are, Wil Wright?

[omega329]

Nope, I'd be a type 2 diabetic on a diet like that. ;)

[yawnstretch]

HD is floatier and a little bouncier (not like a bouncy ball) than Wipeout has been for a while. Its not Wipeout 3 floaty, but its more so than Pure or Pulse, especially as you move up in speeds (and of course more than fusion). There are sections in ubermall and in sebenco that allows for a LARGE amount of air time for example.

wow that sounds very tony hawks, air time, how Rad


Sweet. Cheers Colin!

I'm really digging some of the new stuff I've seen in the videos (the way the levels change in zone is the sex).

So what day do I need to buy my PS3 anyone - only release date on the sony site is May.

[Lance]

Thank you for going back in the direction of the topic. :D

[BaldyCurly]

I will reserve my judgement until I play the game, I can't see how you can be disappointed with game you have not even played yet?

Graphics, sounds, speed, framerate, tearing all matter but at the end of the day it's how it feels that counts and you canlt get that from a video clip.