another (new) IGN preview

[Frances_Penfold]

New IGN preview published today (March 28th)

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/862/862824p1.html

Pilot assist? I didn't know about that but probably just because I failed to read the fine print in one of the other previews :)

[eLhabib]

it's basically just acting like a strong magnetic field that pushes you away from the banks to avoid scraping and crashing. I hope it can be set to mandatory disable in multiplayer, because it IS cheating, practically.

[Axel]

No piloting assists please :(

[blixabargeld]

useful after barrer rolls: you could even point a wall and still avoid from crashing on it..

[eLhabib]

relax, guys. this is for people new to the series, and it definitely makes the game enjoyable for someone who couldn't handle the ship otherwise. it's not like you can get any ace times easily that way. in order to bring wipEout closer to the masses (read: casual gamer), I think this is a very good feature to put in.
If SL really forget to make an option for multiplayer to restrict the pilot assist, then everything is lost that can be, but I don't think this is gonna happen.

[Frances_Penfold]

I'm not really worried-- just surprised. It sounds like Pilot Assist slows down your ship so it's probably (hopefully) only meaningful for competition amongst newcomers to the game. If that's the case, it really *might* be helpful for introducing new players to the game.

[eLhabib]

no, it doesn't slow down your ship (at least not that I've noticed) - it just keeps you off the walls.

[Paradoxx]

:?

What is the aim of the race if you don't need to know how to control your ship ? Excuse me but... I don't want to buy "Train Simulator" !
I don't think that it's a good feature. When developers think their games for the "casual gamers", the games become too easy or too repetitive for the "real gamers"... Consequently, the real gamers go away and the "casual gamers" don't play more than before, because they're casual gamers :)... and the serie takes a bad reputation because of being not as good as before.

Please, don't make this game funny for my parents. Thanks... :rolleyes:

[eLhabib]

again, RELAX. you haven't seen the pilot assist in action yet. it's just fine. helps beginners to enjoy the game right from the start, and that's exactly what it's there for. Doesn't mean they will even stand a chance against a skilled pilot.

[G'Kyl]

Yep, it bounces you off the wall so early and forcefully there is no way rookies will beat even less experienced pilots. Also, if you let go off the steering, you'll still crash into the wall. It's no AP - it's probably just there to prevent your own "contender eliminated" on Outpost7 or something. ;-)

Ben

[Dogg Thang]

It's quite ridiculous. Even a game like Mario Kart doesn't need some mode that stops you crashing into walls. Probably more appealing to people with no thumbs I guess. That 'no thumb' demographic is rarely targeted so they're probably hoping to get in first.

[lunar]

What if experienced pilots use pilot assist? Will they be faster? If there`s any way to take advantage of pilot assist many players will do so. I`m praying there`s no way that pilot assist times can be entered into the records, or it may be used/abused and the game be broken.

[Dogg Thang]

I would expect they'd have thought of that. Or at least, I'd hope. Top speeds are probably throttled with it on. After all, if someone moves past Venom, they have no business using something like this.

[lunar]

I`m sure you`re right :) I think it`s an alright idea for the "casual" market, children and shandy-drinking southern lightweights, so long as it`s kept completely separate and the "proper" game isn`t affected by it. If this is so, and it helps fill the Wipeout coffers for more games in the future then I`m all for it.

[eLhabib]

Firstly, I think there definitely will be an option to force it off in multiplayer (because there it really IS an advantage, not having a rocket smack you against the wall and such), and secondly, for TT I don't see it as a threat, because it pushes you to the center of the track if you come close to the sides, so ideal racelines (as close to the inside as possible) would be prevented by the system.

[JABBERJAW]

HORRIBLE, yes that needed caps. Are you kidding me with this, if you need auto assist at venom speeds, you just need some practice. This is no different than(no let me think, worse than speed boosts to the person who is behind like in hydro thunder or star wars racer, basically ruining the game for people who want to be good at the game). People are already cheating enough on the times tables for wipeout-game.com, than to add this. It sounds like you cannot get the best time, but a pretty good one still. Please take this out, this is not going to attract casual gamers. This also partially ruined wo64 with the person in behind getting every good weapon, and the person leading getting shields or mines.

I know this is not coming out, but at the very least make the ship go considerably slower(at least on rapier and phantom)

[Axel]

Hey, I loved WO64!!! But the weapons was predictable though lol. Ok well I hope thats two things we can turn off in multiplayer. BR's and Assists. Imagine everybody doing BR's after every jump throughout the whole race.............

[eLhabib]

I don't think anyone needs pilot assist on venom. the thing is, as soon as the speed gets cranked up to rapier, casual gamers lose control and scrape a lot. in order to still provide a fun experience, the pilot assist does its job. but again, it's NOT as if someone could get a better time WITH pilot assist than WITHOUT. it doesn't even let you do most of the things ace pilots do, such as staying as close as possible to the inside of a turn, or even cutting turns over the sidewall sometimes. also, pilot assist of course does NOT work in zone mode.

[Paradoxx]

The casual gamers hate Wipeout (look at the forums), so please, let them play on their F-Zero, and don't change our game because of them ! :evil

[Dogg Thang]

eL, I'm not quite understanding the logic there. If a player is putting in Venom and Flash time, Rapier is simply a step up from those. That's when assists and helping hands should be dropped, not introduced. If assists were available in Rapier, then they should just drop Venom and Flash altogether and make Rapier the default speed because, right now, they are the training classes.

If they're going to have assists at all, it should be right at the start in the earliest classes. I would have thought the point was to overcome that initial introductory difficulty.

But then, if anyone can't handle the Driving Miss Daisy class of Venom, I'd say they bought the wrong game.

Or maybe the way things are going and given the people the WO team seem to be so desperate to appeal to, they bought the right game and it is us who'll be buying the wrong game.

[eLhabib]

you probably can't imagine what an enourmous task it is for A WHOLE LOT of people to navigate an AG craft around a narrow course, even at flower speed. As a fact, I know quite a few people who are really into games, even driving games, love the look of wipEout, and are put off by the fact they can't handle it's controls. It's bizarre, but that's how it is. I think SL should try what they can to appeal to the masses without changing the spirit and essence of wipEout, in order to make the game more popular and guarantee a budget for the next one. I think, pilot assist is a good choice to do so.

actually, now that I think about it, one of my friends totally owns me on Forza, GT, PGR, and pretty much every other (car) racing game, and I'm quite good at those, too. He is an absolute driving crack, but when we played wipEout Pure a year ago, he was absolutely lost, he couldn't get around the track clean for the life of him. We, who play wipEout a lot, don't notice anymore that wipEout is actually a LOT different than everything else out there, but for someone new to the series, it can seem impossible at first.

[Sausehuhn]

The main problem is: new players don't know how to handle the game because nobody tells them in-game.
Most people just jump directly into the game and do not care that there's a manual to read. Hell, I'm sure 90% of the newbies don't know BR or the option to change the dual-airbrakes into singleairbrake. Not to mention the side shift.
There should be an introduction to the game - in-game!
But no NFS-like **** that tells the oldies how to change the body paint. Cause when I play WOHD I'm not interested in how pitch control works or what a side shift is. I don't want to know that I should break before the curve to turn my craft without slamming into walls.
No I don't want to hear that because I know that already because I've played the previous installments already. Thus I don't want any loading screens that tell me exactly that, either (Pulse anyone?).
But that's me. Or the people from WOZone for that matter.
But the whole lot out there who watches the trailer of HD and are willing to spend a few bucks into a completely new game wants to know that.
At the beginning, that is.
So give them a seperated introduction mode (but please don't abuse the campain/career mode for that!)

Newbies have to know, right from the start, that they can learn the game. And Oldies have to know that they can jump directly into the fun without any hints they already know, plastered all over the game.

That's what bothers me most with those lame loading screen introductions (that nobody really cares of anyway because you just see it for a few seconds): The fact that if you master the game already (or you come to the point that you finally do so) you still have to look at it every time.

[eLhabib]

... There should be an introduction to the game - in-game! ...

There is an in-game manual in HD (at least in the preview).
AND stylish loading screens with a bar.

[blixabargeld]

i hate hints during loading too; in my opinion, the best choice would be develop an in-game tutorial about everything that concern handling and air brakes... design is one of the main pillar for wipeout, and shouldn't be sacrificed for those casual gamers who plays wipeout for the first time..

[Sausehuhn]

I know, eL, there is one in Pulse as well. But it's just letters and no gaming. You know what I mean? It's somewhere hidden behind some submenus and nobody takes care of it if you don't search for it. Sure it's nice to have, but I guarantee it's not the first thing a new player looks at.

[Dogg Thang]

I think SL should try what they can to appeal to the masses without changing the spirit and essence of wipEout, in order to make the game more popular and guarantee a budget for the next one.

If that's the direction the series has to go in, I don't really want another one. There's no point in having WO games just to keep the name going if the main aim is to appeal to your mate who can't play it rather than, you know, people who actually like Wipeout.

But I agree with Sausehuhn. An in-game tutorial wouldn't go amiss for those who need it. After that, well, if they can't play it they can buy Burnout or Wii Fit or something.

[eLhabib]

See that's exactly the problem. If the game is too hard for the casual gamer (sadly over 70% of the people who BUY games), they will just go and buy Burnout INSTEAD. Means wipEout does horribly in sales, means that will be the end of it. You have to see the money side of things. The approach they are taking with the pilot assist is a good idea imho, in any way much better than bringing the overall style, soundtrack, menu design, and GAMEPLAY ITSELF closer to mass market. If wipeEout wasn't by SL - a part of SCEE - but by an independent third party studio, I'm sure they would've dropped the whole wipEout franchise long ago, because it just didn't sell well enough. Sad but true. Being aware of this, I'm very happy to see a pilot assist feature, because it may lay the foundation for more titles (and even downloadable content for HD) to come.

But yes, a playable tutorial that takes you for a spin at different speeds and introduces you to the game would be perfect. Who knows, maybe they thought of it anyway - we'll see.

[Asayyeah]

Martin and Max i am fully agree with you. We are hardcore gamers but we realize that to save Wipeout franchise, developers need to find a way to hit the casual gamer target, which can generate more profits and let Wipeout alive for a long time.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm just not so sure there'd be anything worth saving in that scenario.

[Axel]

Na it will be good mate, just turn it off, and race. Don't worry about it. It wont affect "your" game play and as was said above. More sales is good for SL. I don't know about you, but I want more WO.

I may not love this game but I'll be damned if i'm going to have a PS3 with no Wipeout :)

[Mano]

i dont know how it affects anyone negatively, if it directly changed anything in the physics or on the gameplay of anyone that doesnt use it, that would be bad, but otherwise i dont see the wrong on it.

That being said i always favor a more realistic type of playing when vehicles are concerned in a game, and i wouldnt use the assist, because its only an option, and it definitely detracts from the immersion and fun.

But how does it hurt by just being an option?, there are more disadvantages in using it, namely a lower top speed; now thats a lot more crippling.

Al makes a good point talking against other stuff that would hurt more, the handicaps of giving better weapons at pilots behind, and some games that gave a speed boost to racers behind, like indy500 or daytona series, sega did this all the time and that was a totally unfair advantage, as the pilot behind usually waited until the last moment in the final lap and made you crash, which made a surefire win to the cheating player.

*i needed to read better, it alters your top speed as well as making you bounce earlier from walls as G´kyl said.

this is just coming from logical deduction but those are definitely 2 important disadvantages, and in the end you can always brag about how you won without any assist... ;)

[Colin Berry]

The pilot assist is handicapped in such a way that no player with pilot assist on can compete with the high end wipeout players. It cuts thrust when it engages and the top speed is capped.

[eLhabib]

Aaaaaaah, thanks for the relief.

[Sausehuhn]

The only thing I really hope is that races with the pilot assist do not count for the record tables. Or at least they are seperated.
Because I can imagine that there may be a track where the assist gives you advantages. And I don't wanna see any thread that goes like"TrackName is faster with assist turned on!" or something along these lines.

And of course you should have the option to turn it off for multiplayer races.

[Mad-Ice]

No option to turn it off in multiplayer, just no option at all to put it on in multiplayer. Multiplayer is just the ships, the track, the opponents and your own skill, oh yeah and the luck of weapons! Hihi.

[blixabargeld]

same thing happen in music biz, when you have to choose between market and artistic credibility.
I prefer not to have any more wipeout than having one which is burnout-like (or simply similar to al the EA crap)
Or maybe Sl could make two version of the game, one for hardcore gamers and one more "commercial"...:g :g

[G'Kyl]

Multiplayer is just the ships, the track, the opponents and your own skill, oh yeah and the luck of weapons! Hihi.

You're laughing now...

;-)

[HISHO[JP]]

Here (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/wipeout/news.html?sid=6188500&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2)
with (same as ign) screens and (different from ign a little) videos

[eLhabib]

Sixaxis motion control is set to off by default, but Wipeout fans may get a kick out of trying the control system.
yeah... RIGHT :p

[taqili]

I prefer not to have any more wipeout than having one which is burnout-like (or simply similar to al the EA crap)

Why is there so much hate for Burnout? It seems like the variety allowed for in two such great racing games causes division rather than celebration. I feel so alienated for liking both :brickwall

[eLhabib]

Burnout 2 and 3 were awesome games, but after that, it started to go downhill, and Burnout Paradise is one of the most boring and most skill-denying games I have ever played.

[taqili]

eh OK, I guess I sort of understand...what challenges the wipers is the (comparative) lack of skill, rather than the qualities of fun that can be derived. I'd rather be able to play two distinct games, which is what people here are arguing for. They want wipeout to be elitist and challenging with zero concessions and total skill, rather than a game that's accessible for everyone but little skill (again, comparatively) required.

how close am I?

[Dogg Thang]

For me, spot on, though maybe my choice of words would be different. I love Burnout actually, Revenge being a fave on my 360. Easy to see why it's a popular game. I also think Burnout is just an easy example to name here.

But I guess the point isn't Burnout itself. For me, it's that all I'm hearing is what's being done to make the games more accessible to mainstream gamers, not what's being done to make these better WO games. The team seems determined to capture a market that is well catered for already and has little interest in the things that have made WO what it is. WO is not that game.

Or rather, it wasn't. But, hey, things change.

I think you get the gist. It's not really Burnout hate. Or it certainly isn't from me. That's just an example of a different type of gaming.

[eLhabib]

you can't see it black and white like that. wipEout has always been a tough game to master, and a big portion of the fun ace pilots get out of it is mastering the tracks themselves to perfection. The fact that there are huge Time Trial records tables is proof of the skill it takes to master wipEout.
But it's not all just about skill, of course a game like Burnout is great fun, too. Messing around with stunts and crashes, even heated online battles. But everytime you get beat because of an incident other than your own lack of skill compared to the guy who beat you, you get frustrated because it wasn't YOUR mistake. It was the mistake of a game that gives the guy behind you more boost power to bring the field together and provide more action (as seen in every Burnout since Revenge). So the guy just hangs back behind you, collecting boost, and then speeds past you on the finish straight.
Not to mention that successfully navigating most Burnout tracks is more reliant on luck than on pure ability. Of course, dodging traffic is a whole lot of fun, but it doesn't provide for a fair race. Don't get me wrong, I had a TON of fun with Burnout games before, just not the level of fun I get out of wipEout games.
In general it can be said that for me (and for a lot of people on this forum, I guess) a game has to be hard and unforgiving to a certain degree, otherwise it will get boring very soon.

[G'Kyl]

In general it can be said that for me (and for a lot of people on this forum, I guess) a game has to be hard and unforgiving to a certain degree, otherwise it will get boring very soon.

Especially racing games - I'm all with you! At the same time, that's precisely the point where "casual" gamers split from the "hardcore" crowd (hate the labelling, but that's another story). Unfortunately, this also is exactly where so called "gamer's games" struggle with finding a balance between serving a core audience on the one hand and attracting newcomers on the other. See games like Grand Prix Legends or Rollcage for reference. I don't know if I wanted to be in SL's position, trying to find a solution there instead of spending more time on the core mechanics...

Thumbs up for what they did and still do to keep WipEout alive! Because so far, they left the formula intact (barrel roll discussion is elsewhere *g*), so we should be grateful. Forget nitpicking Pilot Help - it probably won't be an issue for any of us when HD is released. And if it _where_ to be an issue, we can still go put the blame on SL... later! ;)

Ben

[blixabargeld]

i recommend everyone here to go on the image gallery there on ign website.. I can't decide which one is best for my desktop;)

[taqili]

Hmm, I definitely agree that a game has to provide a challenge to be fun, and I have enjoyed wipEout in that capacity in the past and presently (Asa is my personal idol!) but as I age, my taste in games has grown more diverse. I am a wiper returning to former racing glory (brief stint with fusion, other than that wip3out when I first got my PSX), but no longer am I the elite level with wipEout that I used to be. What I think is best is an accessible game with a gentle beginning learning curve, but one that takes an exponential graph-like curve. You should be my mother passing vector, but someone like kiTTun or orgy to be getting straight golds in phantom. Essentially, a person can have fun with video games and enjoy wipEout, or they can enjoy a challenge and enjoy wipEout. I don't see the need for a happy medium or either extreme.

[JABBERJAW]

El wrote "But it's not all just about skill, of course a game like Burnout is great fun, too. Messing around with stunts and crashes, even heated online battles. But everytime you get beat because of an incident other than your own lack of skill compared to the guy who beat you, you get frustrated because it wasn't YOUR mistake. It was the mistake of a game that gives the guy behind you more boost power to bring the field together and provide more action (as seen in every Burnout since Revenge). So the guy just hangs back behind you, collecting boost, and then speeds past you on the finish straight."


Right on El,
this ruined weapon racing in wipeout 64, wrecked multiplayer hydrothunder, artic thunder, wipeout fusion(leader weapons, can turn off though, so I guess that is fine), multi star wars racer(Very funny actually because if a person is not skilled at this game, it makes them go at boost speed because they are behind, and all they do is blow up constantly), and the reason I really dislike burnout and mario kart. Damn, why get good at the game if anyone can keep up with you, makes no sense. it's fun at first, but when you get the same race every time within one second, why bother

[Lance]

The old TestDrive games were like that, too. At least TestDrive Five was. Terrible game. Rubber band boost at the end of the race. I tried so hard to like the game, but I couldn't. Hated it instead and never bought another in the series.

[taqili]

This is kind of getting off topic, but I noticed many threads here do, haha.

Anyway, to further that, what do wipers think of another totally skill-based genre: shmups (like R-Type and Gradius)? I find myself gravitating towards those kinds of games in general (Unreal Tournament, fighting games, shmups, wipEout), but I also find the more I play them, the more I need some dull, mindless game to be addicted to simultaneously (currently, Diablo 2 -- can it get more mindless?)

To make it concise: do wipers like 100% skill games only, and if they like them more than others, do they usually play other games on the side?

[Lion]

I don't like sims, I prefer an arcade-y feel to my games.
a game that can be enjoyed without skill, but enjoyed for different reasons if you get good at it is what I am after.

games that pull out random BS to level the playing field (like mario kart's blue shells) annoy me when I start getting good
games with a really high barrier to entry, but that get fun once you acquire some ability (eg: supreme commander) don't often survive the barrier stage

[Task]

This is kind of getting off topic, but I noticed many threads here do, haha.8 ) It's a longstanding tradition.

To answer your question, I'm definitely all about the games of skill. I think that's what's really being bemoaned, when one of the few true skill-based games gets dumbed down.

At the same time though, yes, mindless fun always has its place. 8 )

The hours I've sunk into Panda Pang and Sinjid (online browser games) can definitely attest to that...

I think the worst games are the ones that try to look like skill-based games, but due to certain mechanics can be almost turned into mindless fun. In the process, it becomes neither, and ends up as landfill.

[RJ O'Connell]

The floatiness and speed of Pulse and Pure alone are enough to make them an intense challenge for the "casual gamer."

Want proof? I had my PSP on the bus to a theatre convention and passed the game around. With Medium difficulty on Flash speed in Pulse, and at the Talon's Junction White track, I tried to see if anyone could just finish a four-lap race. Five players later, someone finally did - albeit in dead last, where everyone finished if they did. None of these fellow students had ever heard of the Wipeout games prior to me showing them...

So to say that features like barrel rolls, sideshifts, mag-locks, and the new pilot assist will all dumb the game down to something as bare-bones as Burnout (great game series until the EA influence reallly got a hold, now it's just good) frankly is an insult. The elitism that I'm hearing recently - that all future games in the series must be as hard as WO3 on Phantom on every speed level or risk "selling out" - it's about as bad as from 2D fighting fans who practically killed their genre with their snootiness.

[JABBERJAW]

I think we were worried that something new that is stupid is going to wreck the next game. IF the auto assist was faster than good piloting, that would be stupid, but as Colin and El pointed out, it is much slower, therefore not too much more complaining from anyone. If computer assistance to the person behind(more turbos, faster ship) was to be implemented, that would wreck the game, basically creating another artic thunder(shudders). People want the game to be based around skill, not some damn luck, or the computer thinking my son Rennie should keep up with me so it gives him a speed boost of 500kph, and no shield loss.

Good example of this. Anyone play Ridge racer 7? Well you can enter someones draft from 300 meters away from them, and immediately catch up, basically creating everyone to be within 2 seconds at the end. This is not fun after a short period of time, especially after seeing how good the controls work and the good racing required to aquire turbo. Now there was a add on you could do to stop others from drafting you, but I am not sure if you could have online races like that.